Volumetric Efficiency : How & What to Improve for more Power

[@salteveline]

this was a very informative video 👍🏻 actually i hav sleepless nights thinking what to do with my engine 😭 i hve been reading posts from 2003 on forums honda-tech, civiceg, d-series - its cool they still have all this threads on archive up until now !

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yes definitely! Most of the forums still have the info but Ofcourse more than half of it is outdated even those I’ve said in “d-series.org” It’s also to let others know especially locals who have tons of fb friends that are sudden experts just because it’s not their money being spent like they suggest this then that and also this etc but ask them about volumetric efficiency their answer will be “ (insert name) runs fast and he uses the thosenparts “

[@Screamingz1]

Just found your channel this evening. That info you’re sharing is on an astronomical level!!! Thanks!

[@SRDmotorsports]

Oh man! Thank you… I mean it’s good stuff to know for current and future projects plus it helps show we are a good shop and not an “all talk” kinda shop 😎

[@Screamingz1]

@@SRDmotorsports and it shows my friend!!

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@Screamingz1 thank you amigo :)

[@JamesEhler]

Just found your channel, one episode and you got me. Just from one episode I subscibed because its obvious that you have an excellent understanding of the information and present it in a easily understandable way. It also doesnt hurt that you explain it in a way thats not boring. Ive watched plenty of videos where even though the subject is something I really want to learn about, the video presents the content in a boring way and i find my mind wandering to some far away place, so that by the time I get it back to the video, i wana watch something else. Or is my mind successfully evades my attempts, then i fall asleep. And since i watched this just after 4am and thought id be asleep hours ago, I have read a couple of short articles about "tuning for ram effect," so naturally i am an expert in the field now. Being an expert in the field, tge question i have is a rather advanced and possible even theoretical question, the answer to which just may have Noble prize implications. It may even make us famous.... Me more famous though, you know, because all the expert level knowledge and what not. But id bring you along for sure.... Haha, sorry if that sounded dumb, i thought it sounded good... but then again, ive been smoking, so who can tell? Haha. Anyways, the question. I read the Hot Rod Magazine article about it. Even though it was a short article, it seemed that more than a few times the way that they explained how to calculate to find the answer was hard to make complete sense of. Almost like whoever wrote the actual article didnt really know the subject and might of been copying from somewhere else and parts of and/or manner of explanation could of got lost in translation. Heres how they explained it. "Chrysler testing resulted in a formula to calculate where the ram effect will come into play. To wit: N x L = 84,000, where N represents the desired engine rpm to tune for and L is the length in inches from the opening of the ram tube to the valve head. Shope explains: "Let's say you're running at Bonneville with an engine that develops peak horsepower at 8,400 rpm and want to tune for maximum ram effect at that level. Then, L should equal 10 inches," (Where/how do they get the number of 10 inches? Is that the same for all motors, like my h22a4 for example?) "as in 8,400x10 inches=84,000."" (Is this the same as the example of the formula above where N × L = 84,000, or is it a totally different equation that just so happens to equal the same amount?) "To achieve ram tuning at 5,500 rpm, simply divide the constant, 84,000 by 5,500 rpm." (Is 84,000 the constant because it is stated in the top formula or the first equation? And what happened to the 10 inches, why is it not in this equation? How does the 8,400x10=84,000 factor into this equation? If N×L=84,000 and 8,400×10=84,000, then is N×L=84,000, 8,400×10=84,000 all of the time, no matter what and that it will always be that way to divide by the rpm that you want to tune for ram at? Even with a different motor?) "The result of 84,0005,500=15.27," (Obviously they must have missed typing the divide symbol, lending my theory of the author putting this article together by copying it from elsewhere.) "the ideal distance for the intake tract as measured from the opening of the ram tube to the valve head." You dont have to answer all of those. I guess theyre more rhetorical anyways. Just maybe some confirmation that im not imagining that its hard to make sense of, but then again ive been smoking, so who knows. If i just suck at math, just tell me. I know that already, so it wont hurt my feelings.... sniffle.... But i guess maybe tell me how to figure it out in a way that makes sense? Or tell me what it would be for my h22a4 at say 6,500 rpm? And an unrelated question: i just kinda ported amd polished my stock throttle body, i had just bought a 70mm one, but feel that it took away far too much midrange, so im switching back to stock. I didnt think i could reliably increase the size of the throttle plate and keep it perfectly circular, so i just opened up the front and rear to shape it as a venturi and i port matched the intake manifold, do you think that itll help at all? I have a header, test pipe, gutted muffler and 2.5 all the way back from the collector, chipped p28, i also have a true cold air intake that i pieced together and made a tight box for the filter in the inner fender that seals the air filter in every direction except the front. Ideally id like to make it ram air, but i have a 92 prelude si and the front bumper cover doesnt exactly make that easy. The location that it would require would mean cutting in spots that would destroy the look of the front. But maybe ill get it figured.... maybe an "S-shaped intake" like the F-35? You know what? Im rambling....

[@SRDmotorsports]

Looong read but… I totally get what u mean on getting bored… we have a hard time staying on one thing when our mind can’t wait to think of the next 😂 I am the same lol back to the Chrysler question we did talk about that back in the forum days… I do believe somehow the Chrysler peeps were automatically gunning for “3rd” harmonic because the 2nd one needed way too long and the 4th is weaker than the third (2nd being stronger) I will try to back track if I can and see if I can find or remember those old talks but back then It did make sense plus I know sometime ago NASCAR stuff they mostly shot for 3rd harmonic for the same reason… physically it was impossible to find room when shooting for 2nd harmonic… Back to your H22 idea… you know that might actually do what u want… as the spacer still is part of the “runner” length so basically it’s like u ported the manifold (like most Bseries and Dseries) and didn’t remove the center section or divider… If you have space… you could actually play with a 1/2 spacer either try it below the butterfly (more runner) or above the butterfly (more plenum) I’m afraid this might give u a whole new train of thought for projects 🤣 but top comment btw… only a few I’ve seen comment this long but make ABSOLUTE sense haha

[@royalracingtechroyalracing6128]

Class in session 🤟🏋️‍♂️🔥

[@SRDmotorsports]

Thaaaanks man :) u got no worries man ur dad got this and that AWD CivRV gonna be haulin fo sho!

[@royalracingtechroyalracing6128]

Definitely brother appreciate the info, help and support ,loving the content CivRV is coming out nice he got more work done 🤟🏋️‍♂️🙏♥️

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@royalracingtechroyalracing6128 oh man gotta wait for the next on the CivRV definitely

[@SRDmotorsports]

Helping achieve better or higher VE includes factoring in everything in the “system” / engine the video below helps kzbin.info/www/bejne/jqCohn1rjcmXabM

[@rafamonteiro1509]

Man really like your videos and hope one day get in Touch with you to talk 👏🏻 great work my guy really good 🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@SRDmotorsports]

Oh wow thank you my dude thank you :)

[@Built_it_by-alex]

I've subscribed to your channel a month ago and I got to say you're talking my kinda language, I'm also a mechanic and owns a Ek civic with a B16A, it's amazing what you can do with such little bolt on parts, I'm going to purchase a pair of cam gears and also install a vafc before the year is out and street tune it I can't afford a dyno where I'm from, thanks for the schooling you are us, keep up the great work 👍🏼👍🏼

[@SRDmotorsports]

Oh man thanks Alex! And dayum a vafc is oldschool but “good school”. Funny cuz Intake all u got to do is buy two intake pipes and make ur own and saw it and coupler and clamps u got a CAI haha But nice on the camgear too and once you get em? Dm me at the shop page or heck whatever vid is here then and I have some good ideas u can try and asses to help u on ur project Thank you and nice to see fellow language speaker 😎

[@Built_it_by-alex]

@@SRDmotorsports I've got an AEM short ram intake that I'm going to add an 45 degree pipe to the end of, aside from that any if not all engines love air speed together with cams, most car manufacturers will just slap some forced induction to an engine and call it a day but to me that engine is not efficient. Sure thing man I'll get in contact with you somehow, are you on Facebook by chance?

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@Built_it_by-alex oh nice u got a short ram and yeah peep out the marketplace sometimes some sell their Sri for like 20-30bucks hahaha nice candidate for chop ups Yep link to my shop page is in the description we can do lengthy talks there but sometimes come back here for comments on the next few vids lol

[@findtherightbeat]

@@Built_it_by-alex I'd suggest getting an OBD1 chipped ECU and having it street tuned at least with a wideband instead of going with the VAFC route 👍

[@Built_it_by-alex]

@@SRDmotorsports alright, will look into it

[@RRRRefuelRideRace]

You did a great job explaining the volumetric efficiency related stuff. I see a lot of hard work here. Finally this one should reach a lot of views. Thanks for sharing this. You got my like. p.s. Can check my community tab. Likes are much appreciated.

[@SRDmotorsports]

Thaaaanks man!

[@RRRRefuelRideRace]

@@SRDmotorsports Anytime bro.

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@RRRRefuelRideRace yes sir

[@peterbryant3584]

Great content keep up the good work coming thanks

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yes sir on this video it’s simple I mean if we look at the engine as a proper system, others tend to make it sound complicated and in the end u realize they just trying to sell u parts 😀

[@shiftlifegarage3284]

Well explained, like my son would say class in SESSION GENTLEMEN

[@SRDmotorsports]

Oh thanks brother!! Actually I am glad I made this cuz this way on future takes on builds or projects this will be an easy reference point that safes a lot of time rather than explain stuff when that moment can be used to talk about “newer” stuff ftw

[@shiftlifegarage3284]

Definitely good info , that people need to understand key issues when building and making power that u can actually see and feel , function over form 👈🙏❤🤙

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@shiftlifegarage3284 I agree man… and this also gives awareness to people about to spend their hard earned $ based on “use this I saw it work good on Facebook” lool

[@findtherightbeat]

Thinking the next videos might cover BMEP, BSFC and MBT 😁

[@SRDmotorsports]

Well… as you noticed “locally” even head porting they warn their customers that consumption will increase LOL then we know why haha

[@the063one]

now im more excited to install the intake manifold you ported..how I wish the dyno shop around our area is close enough to do a quick comparison and get a real picture. makapagawa nga ng CAI😁

[@SRDmotorsports]

True on dyno facility! Even here it’s roughly an hour away + traffic so it could easily be 2hours away lmfao!!

[@SRDmotorsports]

It’s also why “ram air”’works even on take off The “length” is so CAI hmmm :)

[@the063one]

next project CAI..I got to say good visual on the CAI with the moving "air" flow...indeed it is easier to understand.

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@the063one thanks man and tbh? I visualize it easy like that but now I realize maybe this is why way back when I talk? They look at me as if I’m speaking a diff language hahaha

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@the063one one thing I failed to remind on this video as I was trying to minimize it from being too long is… See the air columns stacking on the CAI? Now imagine intake valves of chamber 1 is open? Yet piston goes up so it’s trying to create “reversion” ? Now it can’t cuz air got back up lol like stacks back up pushing it or cramming it inside = and that’s how we raise VE

[@vtecnegro85]

That's a clean type r. The intake manifold made some nice power and torque and now doesn't seem like the type r needs much more to be faster. For the intake maybe performance venturi style throttle body spacer for some more torque to help the intake and manifold. For exhaust:) I'd perhaps add a bullet style 2.5 inch resonator to slow down flow a bit to get more(and maybe some sound) performance without losing air speed. Would using fd2 type r intake cam be worth it as an upgrade to the owner? Another good video btw!

[@SRDmotorsports]

True on the intake stuff! But the dc5 is so cramped lol but the owner now actually did the Hondata style mod of gutting the airbox inside so the filter is more spacious the area… On the exhaust you and I feel exactly what the Tuner (Leo) of speedworks and the owner feels… as the stock catalytic convert seems to be a big restriction! But indeed the resonator suggestion u did mention is indeed one of the points the owner is targeting fo sho

[@vtecnegro85]

@@SRDmotorsports hehe yes I know what you mean by it being cramped that's where the fd2 comes in With 2 more doors and apparently better rigidity, but man I like that ITR with those wheels make it 🌊. Oh yes the gutted airbox 😁 that thing should rip and sound nice doing it. As far as the cat, maybe high flow one or modded stock not sure how owner wants to go about it. I kinda like the endurance-type set up where you just tweak at the motor by improving efficiency since the k20a motor is well designed and doesn't need much more to be faster. With your manifold and intake/exhaust work should unlock type r potential. I noticed how fast the fd2 is when modded well and I think if they had some IM work and a good intake setup and tune and they'd be giving those evos and Stis and even harder time especially at highway speed. The fd2 here and the fg has the same motor but the fd2 is known to be faster which always had us scratching our heads.

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@vtecnegro85 super super agree on the “endurance” style mod tbh actually me and the owner we would mention the same thoughts as to sort of get the max but try to keep it as close to OEM durability and simplicity I agree on the intake manifold stuff I do think there might be more in it and TBh we have seen 220-230whp stock k20a locally on Kpro and all But all are on scav exhaust and a vstack ram intake and on this we hope to atleast see 225WHP “stock way” hence “spoon style” Might be hard but def something that could be interesting not just locally but everywhere

[@TrackSol]

For you calculations, isn’t the goal of 100% VE for how much the engine makes? Wouldn’t you need an engine dyno for bhp instead of a chassis dyno whoch measures whp after the driveline loss?

[@SRDmotorsports]

Actually that is true and the actual VE would be a lot more calculations etc The formula I learned is more of a quick “close close” estimate in reference to using the dyno numbers or dyno “you use” which actually helps atleast for me it’s like we can’t compare dynos but even here locally if it’s on the same dynojet facility + fuel = a closer reference to estimate with others? Like example We both know if we see a local pull a 215whp dynojet numbers and with a torque of 135ft/lbs and will claim it’s a b16 ? We both know that’s a strong b18 not a b16 🤣

[@SRDmotorsports]

Basically it’s also how I see or check when someone says their B16 makes xxx power and a torque of a b18 ? Hmmm lol Maybe their b16 bore is as big as a b20 as well as the crank 😂

[@findtherightbeat]

What header will you be running for the K20A? Also, any plan to deviate from the stock airbox? How bout a loooong 3in intake with a v-stack and filter? Also, the SSR header or the Toda header makes good power under the curve

[@SRDmotorsports]

The k20a will be tried to keep oem as much as possible but will prolly make a thread and video once we start it as for now it’s still the k24 we have disassembled The dc5 of the owner was dynoed with stock header too

[@findtherightbeat]

@@SRDmotorsports VTC tuning really has a way of making these engines very potent even in stock form :)

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@findtherightbeat that’s true and but see the dc5 on the video? Vtc wasn’t really moved around too so that makes this even more potent and fresh

[@findtherightbeat]

@@SRDmotorsports Lowering VTEC to 5250 and leaning out the map above 5500 helps these engines. How OEM do you plan it to be?

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@findtherightbeat not sure with the owner but I believe stock header and possibly intake but porting will be done Actually this time id let Leo Of Speedworks do the tuning as he did the first dyno tune of this dc5

[@adityawahyu247]

14:34 in this calculation, what kind of formula do you use to get the engine HP based on V.E., compression ratio, and displacement?

[@SRDmotorsports]

it’s a long math but it’s always a close estimate

[@SRDmotorsports]

And I don’t use it to “project” a reading I use it “after” the dyno when we have the real HP then calculate and check how far off it is from 100%

[@adityawahyu247]

@@SRDmotorsports can you give me the reference where can I read it? I'm interested to know deeper about it

[@SRDmotorsports]

It’s been years but let me check if I can find it

[@aaview6376]

Good

[@SRDmotorsports]

Thanks man!

[@SRDmotorsports]

@Dan Fuentes that might be difficult but if it’s a Honda you can check and input ur details at zealautowerks.com to check

[@findtherightbeat]

Hope you don't mind me asking, what's the best VE you reached with a D15 and D16 vtec? Just curious as you're doing well with a non-vtec

[@SRDmotorsports]

In all honesty it was and is always 89-90% so hitting the 91-92% number is something I wish or want to be hitting “normal” for now cuz before and years ago 89-90% was the norm for me And mind u I’ve always checked “others” around and it was always always 87-88% 😂

[@findtherightbeat]

@@SRDmotorsports Anything around 90% is actually very good 👍

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@findtherightbeat actually yes so true… anything over 89% is real good

[@MultiLberT]

Hi, can you calculate h22a5? 166whp at 7000rpm CR:10:1 Cyl: 2157 cm3. How much do you think it could go with a small porting head, skunk2 pro2 camshafts and RC:11:1 type s pistons?

[@SRDmotorsports]

Will try that tonight

[@MultiLberT]

@@SRDmotorsports please do not forget me🥲

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yes almost forgot 🥲

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yours is 87.4% VE pretty good actually

[@MultiLberT]

@@SRDmotorsports thanks

[@CL9k24a3]

Hmmmm, can you mod the stock box the way I did mine? Put the stack up front and redesign oem upper stack that is in the box

[@SRDmotorsports]

Actually good point il have the owner check your stuff out to get the idea

[@SRDmotorsports]

That might be gold as we see u did improve good

[@CL9k24a3]

@@SRDmotorsports I ll send you full build on fb

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@CL9k24a3 oh nice thanks! He did the Hondata airbox mod atleast less convoluted but def ur stuff might give more horses

[@CL9k24a3]

@@SRDmotorsports one good thing about my intake is that IAT is only +3-4c of what ambient temp is. Also it looks stock has nice sound and when cruzing it is close to stock noise. When you wot it than you get some nice noise but it is not to loud.

[@TheSol115]

👌👌👌🔥🔥🔥

[@SRDmotorsports]

Thank you! :)

[@dudapropp8826]

have a b18c1 GSR fully built head with 12:5.1 85mm pistons set to 8844 rpm, skunk2 pro1's. Whale penis intake with edelbrock victor X Did the crank case vents. How can I get this efficient?

[@SRDmotorsports]

Nice set up man!! Perfect timing… u can check the latest video of the b20vtec I talked about improving efficiency def would work for you kzbin.info/www/bejne/bn62aZ2hgq5-rNU

[@dudapropp8826]

@@SRDmotorsports ok, what is the math to figure out? little confused about that.

[@dudapropp8826]

@@SRDmotorsports would you change anything with the my setup? oh forgot to mention have skunk2 lmas Exhaust is 3" to 3" ktuned lobster tail muffler

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@dudapropp8826 only thing I’d change is the whale penis intake… the victorX needs help on airspeed and as I linked the latest video notice my visualization of the intake stacking air on long intake pipe or cold air We see a lot of dyno sessions with that kind of long intake with vstack for a reason :) I think that alone will wake The beast up on ur car 😎

[@dudapropp8826]

@@SRDmotorsports in place of the WP, what should I use instead?

[@ClarenceMongado]

Hi sir How do you do the calculations? Sorry. Bad at math 😂

[@SRDmotorsports]

For the VE it’s a long calculation but generally a close estimate

[@derronbritton6668]

196 whp 7800 rpm 11.5:1 comp B20v stock b16 head

[@SRDmotorsports]

Oh snap! thank you brother! Okay give me a few… lemme compute the Theoretical 100VE and Ur current VE. And what’s the next u wanna calculate? Either jump to 12.5:1 comp same VE or if theoretical bigger cam same comp higher rpm VE Just for the third and “foretelling” numbers aside from the current

[@derronbritton6668]

@@SRDmotorsports well im using pro 1 cams with stick itr intake just want to make over 200 whp so might port the intake and change the exhaust manifold using the same compression

[@SRDmotorsports]

The current theoretical 100VE comes out to 221.29whp so u are at 89.5% something VE effin good for a stock head! Means intake and header is doing “fine” Let’s pretend u jumped to 12.5:1 comp and. The theoretical 100VE is 240.56whp so same 89% gives you 214whp?!? heck u can just mill ur head to get that bump lol! BUT let’s say u clean up the head lightly port it and match everything? Let’s say u hit 91% VE on the same comp and same everything That’s… 201.3WHP!!!! So u are right there man on ur goal and while at it? Maybe mill the head a tiny bit perhaps 0.020” and prolly jump to 11.75:1 205-207whp sounds to be yours :)

[@derronbritton6668]

@@SRDmotorsports ok so just by milling the head i should meet my goal ok ill work towards getting a spare head then port and polish it

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@derronbritton6668 looks like it man cuz ur current set up is working good including the exhaust so yeah if u find a cheap core snag it This way it buys u time, Oh man! I smell 205-207whp brewing yeah!!

[@tommrk159]

How about ejector effekt on intake?

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yes it has some good effect if the injector is good or “new” design However a b18c (1795cc) won’t make a b20 (2liter) power figures on injector alone And gaining from it? Even if it’s just 2% power increase and everything remains the same = you just improved your Volumetric Efficiency too

[@SRDmotorsports]

Part of the reason I didn’t include it is because you and I know… some will start looking for the “best” injector thinking that’s it and not even focus on the intake and exhaust system because the injector helps 🤣😂🤣

[@tommrk159]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWisf6t_oLeYhK8 I,am sorry but not injector,”Ejector” effekt total different,this video show you what i ment in 11:48 min,the exhaust pressure utilize vacum in the intake manifold aka more air to cylinders! If the a video didnt open,type Norton rotary(Vision racer)

[@oksblue]

2000cc b18c 9.8compression

[@SRDmotorsports]

Lemme compute that sorry late comment… what rpm range are u taking it to? need the rpm numbers ftw

[@601Jcoop420]

Did you take into account you’re measuring at the wheel or hub, not the flywheel… so there’s drivetrain loss…. So your v/e estimate is off by a bit

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yep the formula I use is for “at the wheel” Not hub

[@tlovsoe4211]

b16 12.4:1 160whp at 8000rpm

[@SRDmotorsports]

82% is 162.5whp so ur close maybe 81.5%

[@tlovsoe4211]

@@SRDmotorsports it makes peak torque at 7600rpm 148whp

[@SRDmotorsports]

sorry made a mistake on the math With ur numbers it’s 160.7whp is 90% So you’re at 90% VE

[@WorkingClassMedia]

Another one to overthink about lol

[@SRDmotorsports]

The simple stuff can easily be changed to see what works however we don’t see much of those in fb huh lol

[@WorkingClassMedia]

@@SRDmotorsports talked to ECU LATER about plans of making a video about his EF if our schedules match lol

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@WorkingClassMedia oh yes he told me and I said that would be good an extra outlet/marketing on his end

[@WorkingClassMedia]

@@SRDmotorsports we gonna bring back the glory to the eastside!!! Puro nlng south at north eh hahahaha

[@SRDmotorsports]

@@WorkingClassMedia lmfao somehow true loool

[@taylorfielding5090]

change your smoke detector batteries

[@SRDmotorsports]

Yup 😎