Introducing the 6.5 BC - a Wildcat Special: Loading, Testing, and Not Blowing Up

In our last episode, Ryan Muckenhirn walked us through the process of getting into wildcatting your own cartridge and also unveiled our concept for the 6.5 BC. This is all fine and dandy on paper, but when the powder starts pouring, how are we going to go about making sure we loading something that works, is remotely effective, and, perhaps most importantly, safe!? In typical Vortex Nation Podcast form, we’re going into this with a good idea, but not a ton of experience, to give you a relatable look at how some regular enthusiasts might go about the process. Ryan tells us how he arrived at the baseline powder charge and seating depth we’ll be starting with, What our testing regimen for developing an initial load will look like, and of course, how we’ll avoid blowing ourselves up… In theory…
As always, we want to hear your feedback! Let us know if there are any topics you'd like covered on the Vortex Nation™ podcast by asking us on any one of our social media platforms and using #VortexNationPodcast.
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[@kzimmerman311]

I want to see some Retumbo or IMR 8133 in this thing. Should give some great velocities with this sized case.

[@countercivilization]

Dream cartridge for unicorn hunting by the sound of your expectations :)

[@chadillac95]

The 6.5 creed started out as a purpose built cartridge too. It was invented as a low recoiling target rifle. It only became a hunting cartridge when hunters realized that low recoil meant better accuracy and follow up shots

[@ericthered7226]

I don't necessarily think that's exactly why they want it for hunting. Most of them that I have talked to about the Creedmoor believe it's something that it's not. They think that because it's a "long range cartridge" , it's flat shooting and laser beam accurate, so it's got to be good for hunting. These guys also hunt at 200 yards and in for the most part, so the advantage of a 6.5 bullet doesn't apply to them at all. In my opinion, there are lots of better choices for their needs, like the 270 Win for example.

[@pstewart5443]

So when you run light pressures, the brass doesn't expand the same way it does under heavier pressures. This results in the brass slamming backwards into the bolt-face causing what would appear to be pressure signs, but is in fact lack of pressure signs. It's almost backwards in thought process, but it follows Bohr's Law to a T. Also, leaving a lot of room in a case will produce some odd of expected results. This is often seen in benchrest or F-Class when shooting different strings at different times of day. Benchrest shooters will start with a lighter load in the morning due to increased pressures and increase their charge throughout the day. I've seen this happen as well. I will shoot better strings in the afternoon in competition if I am using a consistent load charge vs. using varied charges to account for increased air density in the mornings vs. the afternoon. ELR shooters will seat their bullets where the base is right at or above the neck-shoulder junction to decrease disturbance of the base of the round when it leaves the case. Great discussion guys. Thank you for sharing it with us!

[@dominicdevito]

Just some info on the 142 gr ABLR that might be of some interest, especially to Ryan. I have a 6.5-300 WSM and worked up a load with the ABLR. My node was at 3,190, fps and was extremely accurate. Last year I took a doe at 180 yards, through the ribs, and the bullet completely grenaded. I was fairly surprised especially considering I didn't hit a major bone on impact. Of course the doe dropped on the spot and didn't move a muscle, but the reason I choose the ABLR was the bonded bullet and in hopes that even over 3,000 fps it would have the toughness to NOT disintegrate. I just wanted give you guys a heads up, because that could very well happen to you, especially once you get your speeds up. I've really enjoyed this project and can't wait to watch it develop more!

[@LRRPFco52]

Yeah, the ABLRs are really soft so they will open up at unusually low impact velocities for the purpose of maintaining expansion threshold at hundreds of yards farther than typical hunting distances. The bonding of the lead core to the jacket is an insurance policy to keep it together as much as possible for the closer range shots. I found that VLD seating stems are necessary to prevent deforming the ABLRs.

[@martingagnon4547]

Thanks for the tip about the ejector mark related to pressure... Brilliant explanation.

[@chipsterb4946]

Indeed! I think I fell into that trap with some cartridge a long time ago. “Oh no! Ejector smear!” But the powder charge should have been anemic…

[@ryanehlis426]

You need to do a 10 minute talk on the 6.5 and 350 Remington magnum cartridges. They where ahead of there time and a cool adventure for hand loader.

[@LRRPFco52]

6.5 Rem Mag definitely was ahead of its time. Only thing about it is the belt, but it’s basically a 6.5 RSAUM that fits inside 2.800”.

[@AboveMediocrity2010]

One important issue about bullet jump is when you chamber a round to the lands and grooves, the pressure goes way up. It could be more accurate, but the powder charge needs to correspond.

[@joearledge]

lol that aged like an outhouse in August. Not the brass company you should have gone with. they definitely went toes up shortly after you guys filmed this. If you read any of the legal documents, it was under some.... we'll call it "fishy" circumstances.

[@Traderjoe337]

I’m naming my wildcat the 6.5 S.T.D bc 6.5 is just above average and this thing burns hot! Pewwww son lemme tell ya, this cartridge will have ya screaming! 😉

[@Jeff_Seely]

This round really seems to be very similar to a 6.5 PRC. In what ways does it differ and what makes it better for hunting?

[@doghousedon1]

I want to do a 6.5 wildcat based off the 20mm cannon shell, and name it 6.5 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer. Good luck with your project.

[@VortexNation]

Now THAT may not have been done yet.... Very interesting idea :)

[@dakotabarriger4546]

Projectile might disintegrate with that much powder behind it lol

[@jonathonbridges9625]

@@dakotabarriger4546 it would probably have to be an alloy of some kind. Copper would probably be to soft, not to mention the heat the bullet would have to endure during that level of fps. In all reality it would probably be mps or miles per second🤣

[@dakotabarriger4546]

@@jonathonbridges9625 no kidding 😂

[@BushmasterM4A3]

Lmao Mark immediately blurting it out

[@VortexNation]

Would you expect anything else?😂

[@JR-lg7fd]

7MM BC!! do it

[@gsnicholas8522]

Sounds like you’re reinventing the 264 win mag.

[@anthonygendron9737]

It sounds like it’s the same as a 270 Winchester 140 grain Nosler Partition and reloader 26 with 59grains or more. Just maybe. You should definitely try some reloader 26 and Hodgdon Hybrid 100V. .277 needs more attention and should be in that case.

[@JR-lg7fd]

if you mix Trailboss and IMR 4895 at a ratio of 68/32 it should work perfectly with 71 gr.. 4110 fps. burn efficiency %100 out of a 33" barrel.

[@kbowen2251]

Ryan just wants to hunt with the 338 BC haha

[@kogerism]

a nice round, it just about duplicates, a 6.5x284 at its max, with a 30" barrel I am getting 3100fps with a 142gr with H 4831 behind it, wont divulge the charge#. It has been a fun ride, but I just built a hunting rifle, in 6.5x284 on a long action to seat the bullets where they did not take up powder space, and function thru the action. The first loads were shooting in the low .300s for 3 shot groups, at 3100fps. I did moly coat my bullets, and dont have any copper fouling. My first shot on a whitetail was 430yds, DRT with a 140BTSP Sierra Game King. 2nd one was 510yds, behind the last rib, quartering to the left, took out all the vitals, and blew the front leg off on exiting. I cant ask for a better, more consistent hunting round.

[@VortexNation]

Lots more room to grow with this one - we dramatically under-loaded it for safety reasons to start and are still achieving around 3000 FPS. Once we crank it up now that we know it works, we should really see a big jump!

[@loganstuddert9424]

Bitch-Cat needs a family. Would love to see a 7mm and 30 cal version. Could you expand on what this does better or different than say the 6.5 PRC or 6.5 SAUM?

[@StaticXD00d]

Definitely interested in a 7mm Bitch Cat!

[@thesouthernlife4061]

.300 bich cat I love .30 cal for deer hunting even though any of these will get the job done I just prefer .30 cal

[@chipsterb4946]

Oh we need a .338 BitchCat! 🤓

[@jasonbroom7147]

Did you not use QuickLoad and compare H2O capacity with existing 6.5 rounds? Guns of the World shows the 300 or 270 WSM necked to shoot .264" bullets as the "6.5 Leopard". It's been around for quite a while. "Rum" inating is pronounced "Room" inating. When it comes to 'cats...it's all been done. Ejector marks on reduced loads is caused by the case walls not expanding to grip the chamber walls, so you get more bolt thrust than you would with higher-pressure loads.

[@rgthomson100]

If its a tangent ogive then 20 thou off lands will be a great place to start, this cartridge will go well over 3100 but may not be so accurate as a node around the 3040 to 3080 range where it will be happy, as well as that if you use a match barrel it may speed up over pressure in 100 to 300 shots.

[@ThrowingItAway]

This whole series has been so cool, I hope you do revisit this with a 7mm BC or 300 BC

[@jakedawgwhite88]

I missed what the parent case is. Gonna have to go back and look.

[@coleshobbies77]

300 R.U.M. iirc

[@ladon.grantiigrantii5701]

What about use bc case for a 270 calber

[@wildcat_reloading]

Id go 0.003 instead of a 10th, you're skipping nodes

[@rgthomson100]

I disagree, this case volume will often get a node roughly every 1.5 grains

[@wildcat_reloading]

@@rgthomson100 i was talking about seating bepth not powder charge

[@wildcat_reloading]

With regards to weight, one single granule probably weighs 0.01 to 0.02 grains so using a lader and only adding 1 - 2 granuals would be waitings time, and if those 2 granuals made a big difference it would be am unstable charge

[@AaronBleess-yz4cw]

I’m waiting for an update episode on the 6.5 BC

[@philiptrump8472]

What podcast episode do you talk about how the WY pronghorn hunt went??

[@redneckhippie4651]

you guys are such a cohesive unit!

[@VortexNation]

🤜🤛

[@smash710]

It sounds alot like a 6.5prc?

[@fivex4756]

except this is not short action, which I think they went that way because of the PRC

[@bandit848]

I haven't seen the specs on the 6.5 BC but if you did a .338 interpretation, how would it differ from .338 Lapua?

[@ryanmckenzie583]

yall need to sammi spec this cartridge

[@kayfrancisco7795]

Any updates on the 6.5 BC?

[@demetriuscooksey7147]

I guess if 2,900-3,000 fps with the same bullet weight in a 6.5-06, 6.5x284, 6.5 Leopard, or 6.5 PRC isn't enough for you, and 3,200 - 3,300 out of the 26 Nosler is too much velocity for you, then the 6.5 BeCause should really fill the bill!

[@ryanhampton222]

Prison Mike on Ryan's cup lol

[@syzygy3239]

For a hunting rifle with multi round loading. Loading reliability and safe clambering and safe discharge should always be the priority. After that then performance and accuracy can be maximize to improve the ability of the hunter to take the animal. Accuracy is still much more important to me than many in the industry accept. But I shoot bench rest in my free time. So having a 3 minute rifle is completely unacceptable. But a 1.5 minute is fine.

[@letstalkcaliber704]

I used cotton balls for case filler. Super cheap, doesn't weigh anything and works well enough.

[@peterconnan5631]

Only one rifle? I had assumed you were building at least three... Nice project though.

[@josephcleary7173]

7mm!!! & .338 too

[@CQCMachine]

416 BC, 400gr solid copper 😈

[@pjay.gabriel571]

27 saum wildcat

[@Dmounts]

Prison mike!!! Haha! Nice!

[@alanbrunner2317]

A lot of high pressure signs are head space problems. The case is moving back and forth in the chamber. Yes the case not gripping the chamber will give odd signs. One of the real high pressure signs is brass expansions and the base.

[@mryang3644]

Did he just say 15grains more than 6.5 creed and at the same FPS? Hows that better? Better Energy? Obviously not the speed, thats quite terrible , isnt it?

[@lenniephillips9747]

He was referring to a minimum powder charge, as the load is increased, the difference between the two cartridges will start to show, they haven't loaded to maximum charge yet and they have already chronographed over 3000 fps

[@mryang3644]

@@lenniephillips9747 i still think theres another round already doing what the BC may be able to do.. if it ends up being a barrel burner as it increase in powder charge, why not go 6.5/300wby? Other than the belted case reason.lol... cuz theres plenty of barrel burners out there... Heck just go 6.5 Allen Mag 😃

[@lenniephillips9747]

That's the most likely conclusion, but every parent thinks that they have the best looking baby and the 6.5 BC is their baby, not someone else's

[@mryang3644]

@@lenniephillips9747 think i will snoop around the 25 caliber as an interest due to the impressive BJ bullet.. two 6.5s is good enuff. Time to move on.haha.. 25 PRC? 25 Saum? 25 XC? 25 Dasher?... endless improvements with 25cal IMHO

[@JR-lg7fd]

300 WSSM or bust

[@justice1327]

By the time you get done testing all the variables... you will need a new barrel...and the process starts all over again...YES! Get rolling

[@joeydoell1511]

Please neck up to .284!! The 7’s are under appreciated!!

[@gavinmorrison7788]

thats not really a 7mm its 7.2mm the 270 is a true 7mm

[@justice1327]

By stating “ the 7’s” it includes all varieties...you know because it is plural...also .270 is actually 6.858...so not a 7mm...BUT a .270 Win bullet measures .277...or 7.03...so yes a 7mm then

[@joeydoell1511]

@@gavinmorrison7788 while that is true why is it then that I’ve never heard the .284 calibers called 7.2 to my knowledge they’re always 7mm like the 7mm-08 the 7 rem mag, the 7 saum the 7wsm? If someone knows please let me know. In fact the .270 cartridges to my knowledge are titled as 6.8. I find this very misleading. Thank you for correcting me.

[@MrMillez]

Alright😂!

[@B_Pizzle_4_Shizzle]

.270 BC!

[@thesouthernlife4061]

.300 bich-cat

[@JJ1st506th]

Love these podcasts

[@trevorlawson1714]

Any more 6.5 BC updates coming?

[@VortexNation]

We'll have an update soon - stay tuned!

[@retrogunroom]

Okay guys, I can draw a moose tag about every 4 years up here in Northern Alberta. I got one this year. By the time I draw another tag, I'm going to NEED a 338BC. The 7 mag has been dissapointing on moose performance.

[@VortexNation]

We'll keep that in mind :)

[@rodneyhickman825]

Could you elaborate or the disappointment with 7 rem mag ? I am over in Bc and hoping for a draw myself

[@ApeShift]

If 7 Rem Mag didn't do the trick, nothing this side of a 105 is going to make much of a difference lol. Bullet type and shot placement.

[@lenniephillips9747]

If you skip inside chamfering,You can shave copper off a bullet when seating

[@JR-lg7fd]

good idea. I'll try it.

[@lenniephillips9747]

@@JR-lg7fd 😆,and you can drill out the tip of the bullet to make your own hollow points, and if your bullet is still not accurate enough, use your car to hit a deer which saves ammo as well 😆

[@jassonco]

Quit talkin' and get to the bench! Try Ramshot Marnum & LRT, H1000, H-50BMG, sloowww powders, with large for caliber bullets, 140 and heavier, the Berger 156EOL, would be my choice. Other than that, you just re-invented a 6.5x284N, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-06AI and the like.

[@fivex4756]

except the PRC is short action, which they avoided

[@896CBR]

Thanks for the Moto GP reference!

[@stephenellis4392]

What twist rate does the barrel have?

[@chriswinsett]

The podcast is great

[@brenn330]

Prison Mike

[@gildasguerin]

Passionnant les amis !

[@swarmar3085]

😂😂😂

[@user-ob7mt5ht2u]

It’s “room-i-nate”!

[@JR-lg7fd]

Rumm in 8

[@boellis241]

Considering the parent case, I thought it was poetic

[@joelclark2130]

Head stamp , that's what you looking for not monogram

[@landonblakeley5209]

Hey guys, shut up about Wyoming.

[@mryang3644]

Isnt the performance what a 6.5 PRC is?

[@taylorcleblanc]

Sure is...

[@mryang3644]

@@taylorcleblanc so another lame repeated performance 6.5...... No thanks

[@JR-lg7fd]

Ms Yang you're secretly gonna buy one, I can tell.

[@mryang3644]

@@JR-lg7fd nope. Already have 6.5 creed and 260 rem and 257 wby...... next will be somethin wit a lighter recoil.... maybe a 6dasher or 6br

[@JR-lg7fd]

@ms yang no no.. don't lie it's gonna be this one.