Vulcan Steam Locomotive Spring Hangers - Machining the Details after Forging

Vulcan Steam Locomotive Spring Hangers - Machining the Details after Forging
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[@Unrivaledanime]

Its Okay Its Okay Its Okay lol....... they are getting to you... I would love to see how they react to the world watching them work lol

[@PaulMagyar2412]

I started my apprenticeship 50yrs back as a tool and diemaker.....making injection moulding tools and drop stamping dies and tools in the UK and I never heard of a spotting drill till I started watching youtube always used a centre drill never had an issue with hole positions doing so either will work cant see what is to get wound up about using one or the other...I will say you can use a centre drill to start a hole in a plate but you cannot use a spotting drill to prepare a centre on a lathe :)

[@workaholic5318]

It's your shop, your method and your experience. For people to criticize your methods when they have no part in the process is laughable. Being a mechanic, machinist and welder for most of 50+ years I find most all of what you do sound and in good mechanical procedure. Within the bounds of your years of experience you do fine.

[@AnthonyHandcock]

This is KZbin. What is KZbin for if not for me to give advice to people who know a lot more about the subject than I do?

[@rexmyers991]

I really appreciate your professionalism - not letting your detractors get to you. I had no idea how thick skinned a You Tube Content Provider has to be.

[@garys9694]

Actually, he has let them get to him!

[@allenwade6087]

New name for armchair quarterback,,, negative Nancy's,,, they are awful....

[@kindabluejazz]

@@garys9694 No, if he had 'let them get to him' he would have succumbed to their wishes and changed his method. Telling them to F* off, is not 'getting to him'.

[@ruben_balea]

The only realistic reason I can think of not to use a center drill is the risk of breaking the tip, but I never used one so I don't know how easy is to break them.

[@mysock351C]

@@zomie1 I think most people don’t realize what life in a real machine shop is like. Mistakes happen all the time, on both the machinist’s as well as my part as the engineer. You stop by for a quick chat, fix the problem, and move on. Shame as here you potentially have hundreds of extra sets of eyes from various professionals which could be a god-send if a subtle but critical error is made.

[@Greg-cu1zc]

One of the few times my die filer shows its worth.

[@hectorpascal]

Great video to let "non-machinists" actually SEE the effect of annealing on hard forged steel by drilling it before and after!

[@rustywrench2119]

Potato patato center drill, spotting drill. Some people always have something to complain about. You do you great channel great information keep it up.

[@MrChevelle83]

have you ever herd anyone say 'potahto'?

[@dansvec5411]

Keep it up, Keith! Lots of armchair machinists out there who've never made any chips. The "right" way is the way that gets the machine running properly again in the time allowed. Perfect parts that arrive too late are worthless.

[@bryanhall9034]

Keith. Forget the misguided “advice” of the armchair machinist’s, your work and skills are very impressive indeed. This,from a retired professional. Best wishes to you all for Christmas, Enjoy the Best of Health and Keep up your Great Work. Kindest Regards from “Old” York, England and a devoted fan of your excellent and informative videos,

[@ellieprice363]

Merry Christmas to York, England from North Carolina USA. Actually we have a York, South Carolina in our neighboring state. Very likely named after your historical city.

[@petebouchard1777]

And BTW, I love old machines. Probably because I worked on small holdings farms growing up where nothing was new and there was always a machine to fix.

[@5tr41ghtGuy]

Keith, your work making replacement parts for historical machines in inspiring. Thank you for all you do!

[@CarlinComm]

Laughing at your response to the comments, makes me glad no one watches my videos, the comments will drive you buggy! Thanks for the great content!

[@jimbrown678]

Now, Keith, if you're insist on using a center drill in that way, you must use a left-handed drill. It must be half inch under size to allow for the wobble. And 87 octane gasoline must be used as cutting oil.

[@KodiakWoodchuck]

I think you're supposed to use 89

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks Crag for being great. Oh I’m not using my center drill right? I been doing it wrong for 30 years. I will have to remake all those thousand of parts to make sure they’re in specification, Not! Thanks for sharing. I think you got the hardest job on the internet, 1/4 of a million people watching every move you make, make lemon aid out of lemon and put it on a tee shirt. “ did you spot drill that spaceship part ? ”lol or “Center drill not just for hobbiest any more” lol. I’m so glad you have a great sense of humor.

[@littleworkshopofhorrors2395]

If you think about it, using a centre drill to spot a hole is no different to drilling a pilot hole and enlarging it later. The only real problem with using a centre drill to start a hole is that the oil recess part of the driĺl (the pilot) is so fragile and will tend to snap off if chips aren't cleared to prevent jamming. A proper spotting drill maybe better as it is specifically designed for the job but a centre drill works just fine. Personally I favour an old two flute end/slotting mill reground as a 118 degree 4 facet drill, but I'm just a cheapskate.😉

[@Hoaxer51]

@@littleworkshopofhorrors2395, Rather than using the word cheapskate I prefer to use frugal, Lol

[@littleworkshopofhorrors2395]

@@Hoaxer51 or perhaps careful.😉

[@seabreezecoffeeroasters7994]

Blacksmith decided to do some work towards his bag of Christmas Coal by moving up the naughty list 🤣

[@samb3706]

Keith, don't let the trolls get to you. You are a skilled craftsman, which means that your chosen method may not be the same as practiced by craftsman B or craftsman C, but it still gets the job done. In any skilled profession, be it machining, engineering, medicine, law, or [gasp] politics; there are many different ways of approaching and solving problems. The key is to recognize that there are different approaches, and to select the one that you are the most comfortable with that will solve the problem. Sometimes we learn from others, sometimes, others learn from us.

[@Farm_fab]

Keith, years ago, I had a 1964 International Scout with Armstrong steering, and I had to drill the hardened frame for the Saginaw box. I had to keep dipping the bit in water to try to protect the bit. I finally got the holes drilled, but it took awhile.

[@natekelly4667]

I knew a guy that had modified an old reciprocating saw to clamp most file tangs. He would use it when he had a lot of filing to do. It was surprisingly effective.

[@markbernier8434]

Didn't modify the saw, just put three four turns of bailing wire around a beat up blade. Worked fine.

[@mathewmolk2089]

Good Idea. Going to have to remember that. = Portable die filer! (For what it is I might have burned it out with the plaz and finished it with a die grinder and carbide burr)

[@dannyl2598]

Thanks Keith, if it makes you feel any better, I don't own a spotting drill. I have always done the same thing that you do.

[@philshel1]

I'm the same. I believe those of us who learned the trade in the 70s and 80s all use center drills. I never even saw a spotting drill until CNCs became common.

[@aaronbaird3533]

@@philshel1 I ran a CNC for a few years drilling heat exchanger tube sheets. Never used a spotting drill.

[@ritaloy8338]

Nice to see another video video on the Vulca Steam Locomotive.

[@mauricekeithjohnson2598]

Hi Keith !, world should be in much better shape by using the brains of all the on-line Axspurts ! :)

[@nkelly.9]

Thank you Keith, another great video. You are fortunate to be able to visit your parents , and you deserve such good fortune. You are 100% correct regarding using a centre drill to spot a hole before drilling. Keep calling out the uninformed commenters. Kindest regards sent your way from Melbourne Australia.

[@steveweidner8311]

Keith - you keep making new parts for that engine, before long it will be all new!

[@mysock351C]

Out of curiosity, how much time was required on the blacksmith's part to finish forming them? Seeing the completed forging definitely justifies having the blanks made.

[@tropifiori]

I tried millin a piece of railroad track that was not annealed. I wrecked 4 braised cutters on a face mill. I think the track was work hardened from the train wheels. I finally figured it out and everything went more smoothly after I annealed the work

[@dannyl2598]

I'd say that's why you see a lot of makeshift anvils, made from an old piece of RR track.

[@garys9694]

Try machining a RR wheel. Hard as can be. Beth Steel had a machinability rating for them at "0"

[@MrChevelle83]

rail road track is flame hardened after its installed.

[@4GSR]

The top and sides are induction harden and then flame tempered to a certain hardness before it leave the steel mill. They don't do that out on the high rail.@@MrChevelle83

[@MrChevelle83]

@@4GSR ok then what are they doing when Ive seen the rail crew using a machine with a bunch of burners riding down the tracks?

[@mdlanor5414]

Mr.Rucker,11 months ago I left a comment on your video. Health update and Piddling in the shop. About making a decision to lose weight. It’s obvious that you have lost a lot of weight. You look great and I hope you gained more energy from doing so. I hope you set a goal and reach that goal on how much weight you are determined to lose. As always I enjoy watching all of your KZbin videos. I usually forget to leave a like on your videos and the other KZbin channel videos I regularly watch. I will make it a goal on leaving a like on the vast majority of KZbin channel videos I watch. I wasn’t aware that liking a KZbin video. Helps the KZbin channel,by listing their KZbin video in recommended videos.

[@markenna5955]

When we were cutting square slots we drilled and then broached the holes. squaring the broach against the fixture. Then we milled out the center waste. It saved us a lot of time

[@mathewmolk2089]

Hood idea,,,,,Another one i will remember. - If it's fussy we have used the slotting head on the mill

[@DAKOTANSHELBY]

Spotting Drill vs Center Drill - "It's OK, it's OK, it's OK" 😂😂😂 You tell 'em Keith!

[@erichoff7926]

Keith, each time I watch you I have the good fortune of learning a new trick or set skill. Thank you! I'd love to visit your shop one day. Eric

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

WoW 😮! Your blacksmith really did a nice job forming those! Making one, not ad difficult. Making two identical, a little more challenging!

[@waynephillips2777]

Well done gentlemen! Beautiful work on the forging and the machining. It's amazing how folks will fall all over themselves trying to find fault with methods. If you use a tool and it accomplishes what you need safely, who cares what the textbook says?

[@Krzysiek106]

perfectly selected steel for spring hangers👌

[@montymc450]

Do you think it's jealousy that makes people send negative comments? I reckon your work procedures are accurate and pertinent to the job at hand. Your devotion to making these videos is highly appreciated. Thank you

[@jimmydm3]

It's human nature. Some people just have to say negative things. It makes them feel better.

[@montymc450]

@@jimmydm3 Keith deserves utmost respect

[@LNM0000]

Lmfao re centre /spotting 😂😂😂 all the best mate. Cracking stuff as usual. ❤

[@garybeasley4885]

I love your git er done attitude.

[@IanM-m4h]

Nice work Keith. Thanks for explaining the difference between a centre drill and a spotting drill. I use both for different applications. I find the centre drill better for rough surfaces as it is more rigid than a spotting drill.

[@richardsurber8226]

Good work there Greg and Keith, I love when a plan comes together, as one tv show was famous for saying. In the back of my mind I was wondering if Greg had left the metal machinable. I had not seen the 4140 steel be annealed like that. Facinating Thanks

[@mathewmolk2089]

I think the smith might have went ahead and quenched it anyway....just heating it red and letting it air cool it will only go to like 40-45 C-Rock.

[@joehamblin3297]

Would really like to see you install these new parts on the locomotive

[@davidhume2842]

Keith, you’ve lost so much weight. Keep it up! You’re looking great!

[@don1031]

I almost didn't recognize you, Keith, rocking that white hoody. Then you went out and did your normal excellent work and I thought, "Yep, that's Keith!" :)

[@steveparker8723]

The job turned out great Keith. Spent thirty years as a blacksmith in industry.

[@skipshutes994]

12/11/23 My brother and I worked at Wells Index in i970’s he was a scraper and I installed electrical. This was probably one of last machines made in Three Rivers,Michigan plant.6:45 pm

[@melshea2276]

Happy Monday Keith!😊🛠⚙️🚂👍👍👍👍✌️

[@smaggies]

Great Work Keith will accept your thoughts of machining... :)

[@mathewmolk2089]

I have been cross drilling like you did for over 60 years. - Even have done that in the drill press by locking the quill and sliding the vise back and fourth to get a mark in the top. . No question it's under +/- 005. if you don't dig in a mile. I have just been thinking (it's why you smell hair burning) and although I have used edge finders to find the center of a round to cross drill, I really don't remember ever needing anything where a couple of thousandths on a cross hole location made any difference at all anyway.. You cork sniffers lighten up on Keith. He;s a good man and it's for a friggin cotter pin! Who cares? ---- Good job Kieth. i wold not have thought of the grain flow. - Bet that's the way they did it in the first place.

[@joelclonch6120]

Keith is the incredible shrinking man! Good for you Keith! Love your videos!

[@shannonstebbens6992]

Thanks for the clarification of the difference between a spotting drill and a center drill.

[@Hoaxer51]

I once watched a Stefan Gotteswinter video and he explained that a center drill had the point sharpened to 118 degrees and further up in the center drill was set to a 60 degree bevel to match most lathe centers. Stefan explained that if you just use the tip of the center drill it will match your regular drill and will work fine but if you use the center drill up to it’s second bevel (the 60 degree bevel) then it won’t match your drill bit and could throw your drill bit off. So yes, Keith is right about using his center drill and since they’re so short, they may work better in certain uses. Just adding some numbers to what Keith said in this video.

[@mathewmolk2089]

No question about it,,,,,if you are working to a half thousandth..... But in this case an eighth would go n noticed. - Fact is, unless there is something I don't know i don't think the holes bought Keith a thing. - Just plnge and mill. - Even if it's not a center cutting mill, down feed as you move. Yo Keith. let us know the reason you drilled the ends and didn't chain drill the center, or just didn't mill without drilling (I'm sure there is something i'm not seeing.

[@edsmachine93]

Very nice job from the Forged part to the final machining. Came out very nice. Thanks for sharing the process. Have a great day. 👍

[@martineastburn3679]

I have some small carbide drills that I can drill through M48 with and once you have a pilot hole through the slow-moving nose of the drill will not have to work much. The faster turning (remember lever arm - pivot rotates and the outside flies around the pivot.) but doing as you did will work in time.

[@petebouchard1777]

Keith, you content is awesome. Thanks so much

[@stevealford3182]

Timely as the last year I've been crossing over hobbies, forging parts that then get machined. Been learning I need to leave a little more metal for machining than when I was filing or freehand grinding!

[@paulsilva3346]

😮 26:43 I'm just curious: Did you heat treat the ends BACK again to make them hard.?.? 26:44

[@jasonhull5712]

I’ve never owned a spotting drill.. always used my center drills. Now I do have a few carbide drills that I use occasionally to spot harder material.. is that what you’re referring too ? 🤔 it’s amazing what you can do with 4140 and a torch !

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Great job on the hangers Keith. I use a center drill many times also they work great. Merry Christmas.

[@jagboy69]

Looking good Keith! Keep up the great work!

[@jamanjeval]

Is the hardness of the hangers an issue in use? If they were installed as hard as you received them, would they not be prone to cracking. Likewise if they’re not hard enough will they not be prone to bending?

[@samuraidriver4x4]

The originals were made from wrought iron, a much less refined material then the steel Keith used. They were still pretty soft as he was able to drill into them partway.

[@mbruce4152]

I’m speculating that the blacksmith thought increased hardness would extend the service life of the bearing surfaces. Keep up the good work, my favorite channel to zone out and relax on.

[@jamanjeval]

@@samuraidriver4x4 I’m talking about the new ones. Given how hard it was when he got it, if he didn’t anneal it, could it have been TOO hard and prone to cracking?

[@jamanjeval]

@@mbruce4152 maybe. But didn’t the old ones crack? Maybe I’m remembering it wrong.

[@samuraidriver4x4]

@@jamanjeval they weren't that hard, it still produced chips when drilling so they where probably already softer then the springs that are attached to it. Take leaf spring from a truck, those are hardened but to a point its springy and not brittle. If you don't harden a leaf spring they would bend and deform. If these were so hard they were brittle he wouldn't be able to even start the drill into them. The old ones were made from wrought iron and you can't compare that with modern steel especially when it comes to how brittle it is

[@CatNolara]

Fascinating, wish there was footage of the forging process because I haven't really seen much of that in action. Only know hand smithing, like for knives and stuff like that. I bet it's becoming more and more of a lost art.

[@mattomon1045]

Mr Rucker they are your tools ! It is great to see you are working on a steam locomotive !

[@StevenEverett7]

Hey Keith, don't you love those back seat drivers?

[@FunkFPV]

You could use a spotting drill for centering and I wouldn’t know the difference 😜 I just like to watch you work 😎👍🏻

[@mikewatson4644]

Except that the spotting drill angle is wrong for the center to fit into. You would know when he tried to use it

[@SirDeanosity]

Haven't been to your website for a while. You are looking great! I love steam locomotive stuff.

[@brucetuckey7909]

Keith, your slotter attachment for your mill would make short work of the square hole. Also would would be a chance to set it up and use it.

[@ellieprice363]

Good idea but probably too much trouble to set up. Could save filing time by removing much of the material in the corners with smaller end mills.

[@4pawsforge273]

My only negative Nancy's on this video is you letting us know - no blacksmithing of the parts... 😢 I'm still subscribed and will still watch each and every one of your video's! You are amazing and from what little I know ... You SIR, DO know what your doing! You are most appreciated ❤

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing. 👍

[@kiblerjim]

Keep up the great work!

[@alisdairherd9501]

Youve lost a heap of weight keith, hope it's all planned and you're doing well .

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Would you have been able to use a broach on the two holes, then mill out the center? I've always found that filing on a job like that is right up there with enduring root canal. And ignore the Nattering Nabobs of Negativity re making a pilot dimple. I've always done that, drill press, mill or freehand drilling. Just makes life easier.

[@allenwade6087]

Very nice job for sure.....

[@jonfranklin4583]

The keyboard warriors never cease to amaze me. As the old saying goes, " There is more than one way to skin a cat". I've used both spotting drills and center drills too, whatever is handy to the mill or drill press is what I use, too bad these guys don't see that the end result is the same, just because someone doesn't use the same method it doesn't make it wrong. I've seen plenty of different methods of machining that I wouldn't do on KZbin but I was taught if you don't have anything constructive to say keep it to yourself. If I think the content creator is just that and not much of a craftsman I just don't watch anymore, pretty simple. Keep up all the great work Keith and don't let a few bad apples ruin your day, you have a loyal group of us that enjoy all of your content! Merry Christmas to you and yours!

[@chrisgrallelis90]

Good job enjoyed the process

[@maxpro9346]

Don't worry Keith. Your methods are good, and the most important thing is to be confident in your job. And I know you are very confident : you wear a white sweat-shirt for working in your shop 😉

[@markgardiner5150]

People need to realize that there are more than one way to do many things, and the proof is in the final product.

[@6NBERLS]

Most excellent.

[@alansvanes8479]

I have a die filler It makes filling square corners easy

[@WillyBemis]

Thank you Keith! This is a particularly fascinating project. Willy

[@andrewturnbull5897]

Thanks for the wonderful sharing Keith! Merry Christmas to you and your family and the shop cats!

[@carlbyington5185]

Would have LOVED to see the blacksmithing.

[@georgehill6569]

You do great work

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith. As always thanks for the videos.

[@realnutteruk1]

My gut feeling is that you should have washers under those split pins, but logically I can't think why I think that!

[@stevenclaeys6252]

Another great video. Thank you

[@Masheeable]

Wow Keith I haven't seen one of your videos for some time, and you've lost an astonishing amount of weight. Sorry if I missed a comment about a weight journey or an illness etc... but you look great!!

[@csnelling4]

Great job Keith 😊

[@bernardwill7196]

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

[@2listening1]

Random on my part but can you give us the link to that music at the start? Love watching your work. 😊👍

[@DB-thats-me]

Question. Would it not be better to modify the rectangular pins to have a radius so that the hanger’s rectangular hole was likewise rounded at the ends? I worried about stress induced cracking due to square corners. Another great and informative video. 👍

[@mathewmolk2089]

Hasn't been a problem on the originals for over 100 years. Don't thin it will matter now.

[@DB-thats-me]

@@mathewmolk2089 👍. If it ain’t broke, don’t mess with it.

[@dillydallydollcomachineand8246]

Dang all these years I've been using a center as a spotting drill. No worries I'm the one that buys them😁😁😁🤣

[@P61guy61]

Love you videos. Thank you for posting.

[@jtjjbannie]

As a machinist, I would have tried a cobalt or carbide drill before I would have annealed the metal. But if those tools were not available, I understand. Side note.... You need to take it slow with 4140 when drilling with tool steel.

[@kindabluejazz]

That would have then been hell to mill out the slot and file the corners square. He knew what would happen from the forging and told the blacksmith what needed to be done. Apparently the blacksmith either forgot, annealed it poorly, or ran out of time. Keith has the tools and knowledge to take care of it, so he got it done.

[@CraigLYoung]

Thanks for sharing and Merry Christmas to you and your family 😅

[@danielhittle67]

Just out of curiosity, did you reharden the spring hangers then temper them?

[@williamsquires3070]

Hi Keith. Instead of filing, would a square broach have worked? Or maybe ever decreasing diameter end mills, and then filing the little bit left over?

[@justinl.3587]

Funny how you gave all that expert talk about the center drill then almost work harden the part by not knowing how to drill that material properly. Nice one Keith! lmao

[@gary1anderson]

Would it save time and money using a hardness scratch test on worked material before destroying bits? I know I'm way behind but started watching this channel through Tally Ho.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Keith I'm surprised you don't have a die filer or at least a Jerry rigged version. 👍👍

[@MyLilMule]

Interesting project. I would be concerned that the center peak of the "Y" would be a stress riser and will start to crack.

[@TheGitWizzard]

Think about where the force is directed when they're installed. Also, have the humility to observe a Master, rather than be a sophomore.

[@jsteifel]

I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to drill a hole at the top of the saw split for the legs. So it doesn't split further on it's own. Just like a crack a stop hole.

[@truracer20]

I'm not a machinist but have done some work on milling machines and drill presses and I've always used center drills for spotting. Now I learn from Keith that I've been screwing up all along.... I wonder, are there any professional machinists that don't use center drills for spotting? The milling machines I've run had center drills with their general tooling, same with drill presses the center drills on them are as close to hand as the chuck keys and taper keys.

[@toddpatton5015]

You rock. Keep it real !!