VULKAN AND THE EMPEROR! FAVOURED SON OR USED TOOL?

[@joshbull623]

Why can't it be both? A favored tool and used tool called son.

[@Nah_Bohdi]

*called Vulkanus Instrumenta.

[@ironduke5058]

I think that's what the Primarchs are. Yes at the very basest level the Primarchs are, each and every one of them, tools that war handcrafted by the Emperor to help him in their own ways to complete his tasks. But it's not that simple though. These tools are little versions of him, in each of them he sees himself. These tools pledge their lives to him, call him father and come to him when they don't know what to do because they look up to him. Yeah you can say they're tools, but you can also say they changed into much more than that.

[@GRBoi1993]

I totally agree with your assessment of the character of the God Emperor, he has a species of trillions to save on top of experiencing immortality which surely has made him utterly pragmatic. As he did with Vulkan, he will explain himself and show regret for his actions if he can but now being a paraplegic who’s every concerted action takes massive effort it’s simply no longer possible to be like “Roboute, I’m sorry I’m cold and distant. I love you and you’re my son but I have a galaxy to care for on top of a shattered psyche that’s only now starting to slowly recover”. And in anycase, I think many of the Primarch’s had a hard time realising their role and felt cynical about it. The Emperor “used” them no more than a commanding general would order about his subordinate officers. If anything the Emperor and Malcador were much more familial and less professional about it, and I think that was a good thing (and made the story infinitely more interesting too lol)

[@vontheunknown7982]

I think Vulkan is the emperor favoured son, due to his Humanity.

[@codysing1223]

I think it shows perhaps he put the most trust in Vulkan. For it was him that was brought back from death and across the galaxy in order to not only safeguard against Chaos's ultimate victory, but to be the son to stand before him in his most vulnerable moment being trapped motionless on the Throne of Earth.

[@EmperorOfMan]

woke sjw confirmed

[@sexyrupert4135]

@@EmperorOfMan cringe

[@F_N_Inquisitor]

@@EmperorOfMan crawl back under your bridge

[@laureal3659]

@@EmperorOfMan people who say woke and sjw are bots

[@codysing1223]

Some of his sons believed that the Emperor was lonely, so he created beings that could have some real companionship with him. Mortals died so quickly in the Emperor's lifetime, and doing the song and dance of getting to know someone got old after millennia.

[@silversurfer8818]

Malcador did something very similar in "Buried dagger", he made a human companion where the source material were Aeldari - he required someone with the intellect that could satisfy his need to share knowledge with. This companion committed suicide hundreds of times, but were remade by the regent each time and had his memories wiped.

[@elinoirsmythe224]

@@silversurfer8818 holy wow, that's messed up!

[@goldenseal640]

We need Vulkan and Sanguineous interaction

[@trajanfidelis]

I think Big E loved all his sons. Did he make mistakes? Yes. But the Emperor isn't perfect despite what his PR team tells us.

[@aclock2]

Nah, he did love some, saw some as tools and completely didnt care about some.

[@forgefatherjo1436]

"VULKAN LIVES" Stomp Stomp

[@OlrikMeister]

The point of him needing to manipulate Vulkan while Ferrus would have created the talisman willingly is absolutely perfect. He needed to manipulate a different son due to him losing the son he needed for the task is definitly true. He crafted all of them with specific purposes and that results in them not being flexible by nature. Which results in the emperor needing to twist and manipulate the ones he has left to be the ones he needs and lost.

[@dragothromak6261]

Agreed, I feel bad for all the traitor sons who were cast aside and bitter. But I truly feel awful for the loyal sons who were manipulated to reach the emperors end. On that point my fav loyalist is the Kahn, he saw through the falsehood.. but NEVER betrayed humanity.

[@alanrickett2537]

​@@dragothromak6261 yes people underestimate the khan he is a enigma that even the emperor cannot read so why do so many people think they know if he can beat or lose to this or that other Primark. Top level swordsmanship is as much or more mental as is physical and if you cannot read your opponent you are in for a bad time.

[@OlrikMeister]

@@alanrickett2537 being able to not be read is a major plus and puts him in the top tier of fighters but comparing him to the psycho who can see the future and the guy who suprised the psycho who can see the future i'd say he is compareable but below them.

[@alanrickett2537]

@@OlrikMeister the guy that can see the future fell to chaos so that power is obviously faulty

[@Vaille32]

This is my lunch: go out on the balcony with a cigar, drink, and these videos

[@Zuemmel]

Sounds like Denni and Alan after a hard day's work

[@Vaille32]

@@Zuemmel I work remote from home and have an admittedly cush job lol.

[@askashik]

When people think they aren't being watched, they will show you who they truly are. Yoda hid his identity from Luke when they first met on Dagobah, not to manipulate him, but to see the kind of person Luke was without his guard up. The Emperor did the exact thing to most of his sons when he met them. If the Emperor just showed up in all of his psychic might and said that he was their father, I guarantee a lot of these first encounters would have gone completely different because they would be on their best behavior immediately. And I am in the camp that you can favor someone, and still use them to fulfill a purpose without malic or ill intent. Both Ferrus AND Vulkan died, but Vulkan is the only one he brought back from death. If that doesn't show how favored and necessary Vulkan was to the Emperor then I don't know what does.

[@mitchellnelson6862]

Ferrus was torn to pieces, after he was beheaded. Hard to come back from that, the emperor didn't want a Frank-in-Feruss

[@licensed_beheader]

@@mitchellnelson6862 It's the emperor were talking about he could probably make him another body if he had time . He even hinted on bringing back ferrus.

[@ukaszbiaek6641]

thats why i think E loves them as father- because he called them sons in private talks with Valdor and Malcador- they were like "You dont mean tools?" and he was "No, sons.".

[@Jaszunai]

I think that for the Emperor, defeating Chaos and uniting humanity was always his first priority. Showing love and compassion for his sons was a luxury, and one he couldn't afford once the Heresy started.

[@unknownps]

Angron was different, the emp knew he was broken from their first meeting

[@davisgarcia66]

Vulkan was put in this situation because he is the most humane of his brothers. So would the Emperor rather the people of Terra suffer from Chaos or have Vulkan do the humane thing and not give Chaos it’s chance to take Terra and ravage the people?

[@codycurtin2295]

People always forgetthat the Emperor is all aspects of humanity especially the compassion and love one has for their children. He built the primarchs for a purpose certainly but that does not mean they are mere tools, they are children given a meaning. This meaning is not the end all be all of his love of course, all parents hope their children go a certain direction (sports, art, science, etc) but a great parent will not impede them if they choose a different path, the Emperor is the same as he is the best aspects of us. A great example of his love for his sons is Angron in a sense. He was made to be a healer, a soother, as well as a conqueror. Though Angron lost the ability to soothe and heal, the Emperor did not destroy him, he allowed him to operate on his other aspect. In a sense allowing him to follow his new path.

[@NParagon7]

Not Lorgar

[@codycurtin2295]

@@NParagon7 that is a fair point! but he later said he regretted doing that, and especially admonishing him in front of Guilliman. As any human he has regrets and certain triggers are greater than others.

[@Reyma777]

Prinarches, Custodes, Astartes, and all humans [except maybe Malcador] are just tools that the Emperor needed and used to achieve his goals.

[@bobjohnson1633]

Yet, his goals were not for him. His goals were for them.

[@Reyma777]

@@bobjohnson1633 Humanity yes, but not the transhumans, they were to be used and disposed as needed.

[@Dadecorban]

If your business deal has reached an immediately critical stage that will change the very course of your life....you don't invite your friend over to help who has nothing to add to the situation. You simply don't have the focus to deal with anything that isn't important to the goal. You still like your friend. You will still invite your friend over after its all done. It's the same with Vulcan; he didn't have a legion anymore, he was dead, there was little point in just bringing him over just to guard the throne room given what getting there might have cost the Emperor. It really says nothing about how how much he might favor him.

[@malekith2724]

Vulkan is my fave primach with leman coming second. With Vulkan being as human as he is i think the emperor just appealed to that humanity they both shared but he did keep things i guess idk this one is tough to answer

[@barlotardy]

All of the Primarchs were tools, but only a few understood that. The Lion and Curze, for example.

[@QixTheDS]

Guilliman knew it as well, but I don't think he fully came to terms with it until after his return to Terra.

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

I think at the end of the day assuming the emperor does care for his sons the thing is he cares about the survival of humanity first so even if he does care about them Humanity survival is always Paramount and if it means using one of them as a tool to ensure Humanity survival then so be it

[@codysing1223]

Each Son perhaps could have been Warmaster if they were found first, spent the necessary time to not only learn but to understand the Emperor's Vision for the Galaxy. The Lion would not have grown up alone, got people skills, not been so stubborn because he would be the first found son being groomed for more responsibility. Seen more as a Prince-to-be for the Imperium. He may have used the Legions much like he used his system of Wings, from a well connected HQ he could coordinate entire Legionary strike forces on multiple fronts all at once working to their strengths perfectly Fulgrim brought his brothers into the fold (Konrad and Corax) showed them how to command legionaries, if he was found first he may have molded the entire Astartes doctrine from the beginning, as well as the Emperor bringing him down to earth a bit, make him see where and what his father struggled through to achieve even what they stand on now, learn appreciation and humility so he can be the shining example to his brothers as to how to be a leader of Astartes.

[@hailvictory9698]

Alpharius was found first though

[@codysing1223]

@@hailvictory9698 I said perhaps numerous times...

[@hailvictory9698]

@@codysing1223 you imply horus was the first found you half wit

[@rowrowflo]

He also shares the emperor’s curse on eternity unlike the others Vulcan will be the last

[@titnicmclaible8183]

I'm going with you. It was both and Vulkan knew it.

[@hellodelightfulrando]

I like to think of the Emperor as a bit of everything. I can definitely see a man (or whatever he is) that has lived through so much, finally deciding that enough is enough and he will make his own generals by cloning different aspects of himself. He’s lived for so long that ethics and empathy have been lost to him but like all creators, once you gain kinship with your creations and you can’t help but feel something for them. But ‘the mission’ comes first, it always comes first, so he puts those feelings aside and he uses his sons to achieve his goals. If anything I feel bad for Emps, I wonder if he ever looked at his sons, knowing they were bound to a life of pain and suffering and wished that things could have been different and they could be happy. Or at the very least I wonder if he felt any remorse for the life he was forcing them into once he was reunited with them and grew to see them as individuals rather than just extensions of himself to be used as just tools

[@licensed_beheader]

He seemed sad when he met Perturabo and when he told him of his role as the Lord of iron to take up the nasty and demanding wars .

[@michaelmilton1990]

My understanding is that all the Primarch's are basically aspects of the Emperor, who have leaned heavily into those values and personality. Thinking of it that way, I think about Rogal Dorn and his feelings of resolute feelings to duty, and then Vulkan and his humanity. He chose Vulkan on purpose because he knew Vulkan was the only choice for the job, and with everything going on during the heresy, the Emperor really had to channel the Dorn aspect of his personality and knew that pragmatism and duty were what he needed to be in that moment. I don't think he ever desired to manipulate Vulkan or any of the others by pretending, I think that he just understood that to truly connect with them, he needed to use the appropriate aspects of himself that were already there.

[@elis.5350]

I think something needs to be said about the fact 3/4 great craftsmen Primarch stayed loyalist with only Pertarabo falling. Also just how great of a loss Ferris Manus was to the imperium. His cold rational and dedication to strength through adversity would have done the imperium so much good in the following millennia and might have even kept another Primarch or two loyal with his resolve as a example.

[@V.B.Squire]

I just spent my day off helping my dad with chores he's too old for now, And guess what I don't feel used

[@carsonprice5368]

Vulkan is the emperor's best boi

[@nowhere474]

VULKAN: THE FRIENDLIEST TOOL of the OMNISSIAH

[@christopheraaron1255]

He puts a post hypnotic suggestion in the guys head to detonate the golden throne... YES HE MANIPULATED VULKAN!

[@wanderhillen2435]

Of course he manipulated Vulkan. The big E would not hesitate a second to manipulate Malcador himself if he thought it necessary. That doesn't mean he didn't care for Vulkan though, and like sibling comments have mentioned both Ferrus and Vulkan died but only one of them has been returned through the will of the Emperor. That seems very clear favour to me.

[@TheGraham27]

I personally think Vulkan is special, I think he's a "key" to all of what's going on. He's also a perpetual, and the only one who has humanity in him. I wonder if it's possible for him to turn Magnus back into his former self, n remove him from Tzeentchs grasp? Just a thought.

[@PhynixDS]

Im sure that all the Primarchs we're just tools to be used by Big E, just like how he used the thunder warriors to unite terra before moving out into the stars, was planning to pull another twist ending on his "sons" like he did on terra with the thunder warriors, he wants to be the only ruler of mankind with is golden boys and let mankind rule themselves once more.

[@servalkorion686]

The majority of us wouldn’t listen to our parents when they asked to clean our rooms so they would have to “ manipulate” us into doing it, it’s the same energy

[@RemyMoonshine]

I believe that the Emperor “loved” most of the Primarchs during the Great Crusade/ Heresy Era. He didn’t like some of them, and I think most of the dislike stemmed from the influence of their surrogate parents/homeworlds. He obviously prefers Horus, Dorn, Russ, Lion’El and Vulkan. Heck, even Magnus could be added to that list (but that relationship was always tainted by the fact that Magnus had the most clearly defined post-Crusade role [which also states that out of all of the Primarchs, Magnus was supposed to stay around long after the unification of humanity], to my knowledge Magnus was the only “traitor” allowed a path to redemption).

[@licensed_beheader]

He liked corax too

[@TheOtherSteel]

All the primarchs were tools. The Emperor may have had some affection for these tools after the work he put in to create them for their specific traits, but they were always tools. Since the Emperor directly spoke to Guilliman, the question is: why didn't he speak to directly to anyone else? Such as the High Lords, the Inquisition, the Astartes, or the upstart Ecclesiarchy? He could have guided them in many ways to the long-term advantage of the Imperium. I think he could have kept the Imperial Truth and stopped the Ecclesiarchy. I think he could have stopped the degradation of Imperial technology and pressed the Adeptus Mechanicus to return to Great Crusade levels of capability instead of letting it all go. One of of the foundation stones of WH40K grim dark is the villainy of the Emperor of Mankind. Another foundation stone is there is no good side to anything, there is only war, etc. The Emperor, Chaos, the Tyranids, and the Necrons are getting ready to lock in the great grand pappy of all wars and the Orks will be happy to come along. The Eldar will keep on pretending they're important. When it's done, "things" in the Milky Way galaxy will be even more desperate than they are now. Did people think Games Workshop was going to write a, "They all lived happily ever after ending?"

[@battlemountainforge3063]

Vulcan is the best craftsman out of his brothers and the emperor knows it. Vulcan had a job to do and the emperor is the boss man, he's doing his job.

[@johnmarkes2038]

I think Vulkan was his greatest creation because Emps made him a perpetual.

[@MrMysticphantom]

BOTH why not BOTH? NORMAL people also have scenarios where they treat some of their favorite people as both beloved to them, but also tools (especially when you are a business person, or a leader of any sort). If you go to the complexity of personhood and scale of leadership that is the Emperor, it would be even more so for the Emperor.

[@jasonusborne8629]

Vulkan and the Salamanders are probably the Astartes legion most favored by the servants of the Imperium because they are the most humane and considerate.

[@belgischepommes7466]

Why not both?

[@RSBurgener]

If you take a step back, and look at the fact the Emperor created artificial supermen in a lab in order to orchestrate the conquest of the galaxy, it does all look a bit sinister. Dr Frankenstein is regarded as a villain for tampering with nature and bringing an abomination into the world. His "monster" was a tormented character who couldn't find his place in the world, and the damage he caused could be laid at the feet of his creator. So you can't really call the Emperor "Good". He had an agenda when he brought the Primarchs into existence. So I don't see him as a hero. He's more like the Chaos God of Order. He might have had good intentions, but so did Magnus.

[@perjohanaxell9862]

He might do it to any one but it wouldn't be productive with every one. Imagine him doing that to the Khan or Russ. I wonder if thay would remain loyal after that.

[@ronoc5811]

I think perterabo could have made it ...in fact he probably could fix the throne ....did he not have innate ability to build and or understand anything almost immediately, or was that heavily exaggerated

[@eichler721]

I think Vulkan was favored and he was cared about by the Emperor at this point he didn't have a choice he needed the talisman and never used Vulkan again.

[@christopheraaron1255]

The Emperor disguised himself to appeal to the mythic sense of humanity.

[@nurglesgrin8257]

I believe the Emperor used them all and had no feeling towards them at all. They were all tools he needed and gave them only what was necessary to get them to preform there roles as he wanted. The emotions he shows was fake and manipulative and again only enough to ensure they play the role he wants them to play.

[@puchorivera3629]

Hey I miss the opening wolf lord roe here why shorten it

[@Cheezeakamp]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

[@sirburger5602]

Vulcan is the humanity that the Emp doesn't have

[@stevemoos1259]

For the Emperor!

[@arkadisevyan]

Emperor had alot of favored sons

[@toothlesssal5598]

VULKAN LIVES

[@ethanhunstiger4868]

The emperor was absolutely being manipulative. Doesn’t mean he didn’t care, but I would posit he just didn’t care enough. So many of the primarchs falls could have been avoided if he only cared to try.

[@servalkorion686]

He has the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders. All great men are terrible fathers bc they don’t have the time to be one

[@licensed_beheader]

Yep he probably cared for many of them in some way he just was always busy or didn't think or care to show it . He always seemed busy even when he was just standing there , his mind was somewhere else probably burning a daemon or two in the warp for a laugh .

[@LoFi_Sinner95]

Well he's a Primarch so.....favorite tool 🙃

[@weichiang89]

The more one delves into the lore the more one gets to be labelled as a heretic.

[@lildic0146]

Vulkan and the salamanders will always be my favorite legion for their compassion and humility,shame on racist gw for what they have done with these guys,ravenguard and iron hands too pretty much all the loyalists who got hit hardest during the drop site massacre

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

My favorite Primark ans chapter to Vulkan and the salamanders are the glimmer of hope and compassion 40K desperately needs I love the moment when he hugs rogel Dorn and even though he would never admit it you can tell rogal Dorn needed that

[@azaliae99]

It is very poor writing or adaptation of the meaning can change between the book and the audiobook

[@benives254]

Everything and everyone is a tool to aid the emperor in his machinations by whatever means work. Nothing more. Even the goodies are the baddies.