W.A.Mozart : Sonata n°7 in C Major, KV 309 on Clavichord - Historical Tempo Reconstruction

W.A.Mozart's Piano Sonata n°7 in C Major, KV 309, played on a copy of a Saxon Clavichord, close to the ones Mozart very well knew. Mozart wrote this sonata in 1777 while staying in Manheim. He kind of dedicated it to the daughter of Mr. Cannabich, at the time "Kapelmeister", his daughter being 13, who most probably got some lessons from the young master at the time. This sonata really has everything you can think of to teach keybaord, both in terms of interpretation and technique. Interesting enough to make a video about I'd say (so stay tuned!)
Here is a Playlist of all Mozart sonatas (project ongoing): • Mozart Piano Sonatas U...
Tempi chosen according to the edition Carl Czerny made for Mozart's keyboard works:
2:05 Allegro con spirito (q = 152)
13:06 Andante un poco adagio (8th = 100)
24: 13 Rondeau- Allegretto grazioso (q=96)
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[@dansnow2197]

So nice to have you back on the clavichord!

[@mabdub]

Sometimes, I forget just how well you actually play and how wonderfully expressive the harpsichord is under your fingers. Thank you.

[@juancarlosuribe6533]

It,'s not a clavicembalo it is just a clavicordio.

[@pojuwolf]

I love Mozart on Clavichord, I've been a harpsichord lover for most of my 58 years. Sadly I cannot play now due to hand tremors. A real disappointment but that's life.

[@Gustavofeanor]

Heard so many times that instrument that it became sort of a friend. Lovely.

[@williamdane4194]

Thank you Wim❤ Love this 😊

[@siegfriedstark]

This is one of Mozart "chiaro-scuro" sonatas from his Mannheim-Paris period, in which he produced works of such ingenuity and brilliance interspersed with heterogeneous and somber harmonies and modulations, like this K.309 along with the K.306 for violin (from which the development part of the first movement is simply INCREDIBLE in its chord progressions - a feature later to be masterfully emulated by Beethoven in the first movement of op.24), and deliberately somber works, like piano sonata K. 310 and violin sonata K.304.

[@lshin80]

Always great to hear you in action! 👍

[@mabdub]

Of course, I meant to write clavichord, not harpsichord.

[@CostasCourtComposer]

Mozart + clavichord + Wim = eternal magic.

[@clivegoodman16]

The first theme reminds me of the second movement of Sonata No 11

[@clivegoodman16]

It is much slower than the performance by Daniel Barenboim.

[@arvindramesh6442]

It’s historical tempo Or at least what he thinks historical tempo is.

[@Garrett_Rowland]

I've always liked the rondo in this one. For editing purposes: you have an extra space in the timestamp in the rondo that needs to be deleted.

[@geoycs]

I don’t get it. This sounds like Andante, not Allegro con spirito. And if the quarter notes are 152, it should be a quicker tempo. What am I missing? I think I wouldn’t have passed my juries if I had played it this slow. :)

[@roberacevedo8232]

Because it's double beat?

[@albertosanna4539]

I understand you might be shocked if this is your first time on this channel. This video might help you to understand better what this tempo research is about: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHbKfoOelNFkeKs I hope this can be helpful to you :)

[@nnnnnn5719]

geoycs I used youtube’s x1,5 speed feature for the whole video

[@phoenixshade3]

@@albertosanna4539 I have seen many self-proclaimed "tempo researchers" make claims that modern tempos are way too fast before, particularly about Beethoven, but the problem with such claims is that in many cases, contemporary accounts of both the program and concert length survive, and merely on that basis, revisionist tempos can be soundly rejected. It's even worse in the case of Chopin (which is included in your linked video), where contemporaries who actually heard him play in person have survived far enough into the modern era that recordings survive, and not one of them is at the ponderous pace of revisionist "tempo researchers." Sorry, but I'm not buying what he and others like him have been trying to sell for ages. I won't say that playing at a slower tempo cannot inform modern performances, particularly at finding nuances in the inner voices, but that doesn't make it in any way correct.

[@phoenixshade3]

@@albertosanna4539 Adding to what I've already said, the invention of the double-escapement in the piano's action lends further credence to faster tempos than he proposes. Such a mechanism would have been unnecessary for even the most virtuosic performers if metronome markings should be taken at half. The relevant expression here is "necessity is the mother of invention." Not "anticipated necessity in some distant unforeseen future is the mother of invention."

[@wally3086]

very good performance! i can hear Wilhelm friedemann at the end of the 2nd movement. keep it up!

[@roberacevedo8232]

I'll be honest, this works a lot. Has anybody noticed the incredible speed in which people play Mozart these days? The Alberti baseline is played basically at the same speed as the Alberti baseline from moonlight mov 3.

[@thomashughes4859]

Nailed it!

[@erezsolomon3838]

I took the same tempo! *When I practiced it*

[@thomashughes4859]

Hm ... just tossing this out there for a friend ... Does anyone know that "Spirituoso" in 1800 was slower than Allegro moderato?

[@Renshen1957]

Thomas Hughes, Here is a comparison the closest I could find with "Spirit" of Czerny's MM and Italian tempo indication for the invention (Whole Beat) versus Hans Bischoff's MM and tempo indication at the end of the 19th century in single beat. Invention IX in 3/4 time signature Czerny 1/4=126 "Allegro con spirito" vs Bischoff 1/4=60 "Andante con espressione." Before the Single Beat for everything Cadre get started, another comparison. Invention V, in Common Time (Tempo Ordinario no tempo indication J S Bach) Czerny 1/4=144 "Allegro vivace"; Bischoff, 1/4=72 "Allegretto espressivio." Note the time values are exactly proportional for whole beat vs single beat, but Bischoff considers this slower (Andante) than the contemporary usage for Allegro Vivace. (I sent Wim a copy a while back of the 15-2 part inventions). One last comparison, XIII-C Czerny 1/4=126 Allegro (which would correspond with Quantz's view of Allegro being slower in the previous generator at circa 60) versus Bischoff 1/4=116 "Allegro" Again the single beat group would say this is close, but we come back to Tempo ordinario and J S Bach. Quantz used 80 beats per minute for Allegro (human heart beats normally ranges between 60 to 80 bpm). If take Quantz's would for it, the previous generation's (Bach et al) TO for Allegro is quite a bit slower than during his own, one could presume 60 bpm. This would also account for the contemporary description that J S Bach played more lively than this contemporaries. But is that 70 bpm, 80 bpm or somewhere in between. Czerny (people forget he was a musicologist of sorts, and among the first to use several manuscripts sources for his edition of the WTC BK 1, and took the published ClavierUebung as manuscripts without questions) commented on the fact that the Allegro was slower in J S Bach's day, but may not of known of Bach's contemporaries accounts of his playing of very lively, indeed, so possibly back to 80 for Allegro (based on single beat). I am paraphrasing Robert L Marshall's Bach's Tempo Ordinario, from memory as I am at work, and should be minding the store.

[@Renshen1957]

Excuse the spelling an grammatical errors. Must get back to work before the boss returns.

[@thomashughes4859]

@@Renshen1957 That is great information, thank you Renshen1957!

[@corry7461]

Exquisite! Where can I find the editon of mozart works by czery?

[@AuthenticSound]

nowhere...which is hard to understand in our time...

[@corry7461]

AuthenticSound I’m a patron, could you upload it? if you have it of course

[@Contrapunctus1984]

This piece brings up so much memories in me. Beautifully rendered Wim. WBMP wins again.

Hey Wim, I've commented on FB before about this. Can you do more Schumann? Like the Fantasie in C or the Sonata No.2?

[@albertosanna4539]

There will be definitely a lot of schumann in the future :)

@@albertosanna4539 😍

[@luisfernandotapia451]

Yes!! how can you play Schumann's Op.17 or Op.16 on this metrical parameters???

[@albertosanna4539]

With my hands and my brain :)

[@dougr.2398]

Sorry I missed Live Chat, all.... next time?

[@dduckjammy3780]

This is so slow that I can even play it!

[@gabevalle2659]

It is certainly interesting to see the early Mozart sonatas on the clavichord. However, it is well documented that Mozart whenever possible preferred the new fortepiano for performances of his works and composed then for said new instrument. It’d be very interesting to see the complete Haydn sonatas on clavichord and harpsichord, as he tended to favor that instrument Over the fortepiano, even late into his compositional career (London sonatas being a major exception)

[@Renshen1957]

An yet Mozart had a clavichord up to the end of his life, and scored his Magic Flute upon . His father wrote in a letter that cautioned the younger Mozart playing on other keyboard instruments could ruin his "touch.' Part of the estate of Mozart's youngest son Franz Xaver, who in 1841 bequeathed it to the Mozarteum Foundation in Salzburg was his clavichord, which came with a small handwritten note by Mozart’s wife Constanze, in which she testifies that her husband’s last works such as The Magic Flute, La clemenza di Tito, and Requiem were all composed on the instrument within the space of five months. Impractical due to limited volume of the clavichord to play in public, however, in an apartment in the intimate company of friends and family a clavichord may have very well been the genius's keyboard instrument of choice.

[@AuthenticSound]

As Renshen writes, Mozart and clavichord is 1 on 1. The pf came only in 1781 in his daily life

[@joanesperito3514]

@@Renshen1957 KV 309 was composed and played on a Stein fortepiano. Mozart has written a letter to his father, in which he talks specifically about the possibilities offered by this fortepiano for sonata 7. The article can be found online , just search for Mozart's Words, Mozart's Music: Untangling an Encounter with a Fortepiano and its Remarkable Consequences JOHN IRVING

[@gabevalle2659]

Renshen1957 I’m sure this was the recommendation of his father, firmly rooted in the pre-pianoforte era. His father, a musical mentor and guide to his son, would certainly have been weary about the longevity of this new instrument. However, we know that Mozart did not heed this advice and loved to perform on this new type of instrument. Constanta as a narrator has been proven to be unreliable at times. However, even if we take her comment as true, there is a big difference between composing an opera recitative and arias on a clavichord, versus piano solo or concerto works. We know that for every one of his mature concertos and his sonatas he worked on and composed for a piano forte. Given the fast pace of composition and his travels in the last five months of his life (I.e. prague and Baden) Mozart most likely composed on what was around/convenient, as you point out. However, whether he still favored the instrument, that’s another question

[@Renshen1957]

@esperito lorenzo No question as to Mozart and his piano concertos, and public performance for his solo works, as a clavichord can't be heard over the average Viennese or Parisian conversation. Besides F X Mozart's clavichord which was on loan from Salzburg, there's another permanently on display at the Mozart House that is also a claimant (and besides the fact that his father sold clavichords on the side), which coincidentally also belonged to Johannes Brahms. Mozart also played the organ in public (Leipzig when he visited Cantor Doles and heard a performance of a J S Bach motet which he said in a loud voice, "No there's someone I can learn from," and assembled all the parts as there wasn't a full score and as well as in Vienna) and wrote for the organ. I could equally argue, that Mozart's favorite instrument was the organ based on this quote, "“To my eyes and ears the organ will ever be the King of Instruments.”" And we would both be equally wrong. Mozart wasn't the last musician to be trained to play Clavichord, Harpsichord, Piano, and Organ as Haydn and C P E Bach and W F Bach had before had before him. That could as equally be said of Beethoven. Beethoven had a clavichord which he insisted (even after he had lost most of his hearing) that it be tuned and left a note to his nephew Karl on that point in 1825, as Wim uploaded a video to that effect. The Viennese Fortepiano comes on the scene, but the harpsichord and clavichord didn't imediately vanish from the scene. Beethoven's publishers gave the Harpsichord first billing on a number of much later piano sonatas) as well as some of his earlist pieces. 1782: “Variations pour le Clavecin Sur une Marche de Mr, Dresler” (Variations for the Harpsichord on a March by Mr. Dres[s]ler), WoO 63, published in 1782. 1782-83: “Drei Sonaten fürs Klavier” (Three Sonatas for "Clavichord” by this time, Klavier was synonymous, for clavichord), WoO 47, published in 1783. 1783: “un Concert pour le Clavecin ou Fortepiano,” WoO 4, later published in 1890, title on the solo keyboard part of the manuscript 1785: “trios quatuors p[o]ur le clave[c]in violino viola e Basso,” WoO 36, published in 1828, title from the manuscript. Opus 1 list only the Piano. Opus 2 sonatas, published in 1795: “Pour le Clavecin ou Piano-Forte” Opus 5 sonatas, published in 1797: “pour Le Clavecin ou Piano = Forte avec un Violoncelle” Opus 6 sonata (four-hands), published in 1797: “Pour le Clavecin ou Forte-Piano” Opus 7, published in 1797: “pour le Clavecin ou Piano-Forte” Opus 10, published in 1798: “pour le Clavecin ou Piano Forte” Opus 11 list only the Piano. Opus 12 (violin and piano), published in 1798-99: “Per il Clavicembalo o Forte-Piano) Opus 13 sonata, published in 1799: “Pour le Clavecin ou Piano-Forte” Opus 14 sonatas, published in 1799: “pour le Piano-Forte” Opus 15 (1st Concerto), published in 1801: “pour le Forte-Piano” Opus 16 wind quintet, published in 1801: “pour le Forte-Piano avec …” Opus 17 horn sonata, published in 1801: “pour le Forte-Piano avec …” Opus 19 (2nd Concerto), published in 1801: “pour le Pianoforte” Opus 22 sonata, published in 1802: “pour le Piano Forte” Opus 26 sonata, published in 1802: “pour le Clavecin ou Forte-Piano” Opus 27 sonatas, published in 1802: “per il Clavicembalo o Piano-Forte” Opus 27 is the last Sonata with a dual title and no doubt a piano work. From the "Mondschein" (Which request as sordine (buff or harps stop on the harpsichord, moderator and to pull the damper stop aka keep the knee level depressed) and other nickname Sonatas, the Publishers thought the harpsichord still common enough to list the instrument to sell a score. A Taskin Harpsichord imported from Paris with Peau de buffle register with genouillieres (knee activated stops) and handstop-actuated eleveur, or a Kirkman Harpsichord pedal activated Nags Head swell (crescendo-dim, Broadwood later applied this "lid lifter" to square pianos), machine stop (to produce an immediate pianissimo), or Burkat Schudi later Broadwood Harpsichord with Venetian Swell Shutters (which later became part of the Organ's swell manual) could have realized the work. However, from the illustrations of the Viennese royal family, the Hapsburg lineage only possessed single manual harpsichords. Beethoven’s teacher Neefe, however, wrote in 1787 (when Beethoven was 16) that the Elector of Bonn was spending a great amount of money on music, instruments, and virtuosi. He added, “The pianoforte is especially liked; there are here several Hammerclaviere by Stein of Augsburg, and other correspondingly good instruments.” As a teenager, therefore, Beethoven probably had access to some of the finest fortepianos being built in Western Europe. Source of Opus and works, Beethoven Center San José State University

[@corry7461]

Wim fix the title

[@AuthenticSound]

done, thanks!

[@thomashughes4859]

i won ho th ha-be cro wi rea? 🤔

[@matthewdemars642]

I have never listened to a recording of this piece, so I am not coming from a particularly biased perspective. But it was an almost agonizing task to follow along with the score and hear these movements played with very little concern for the written affect/tempo indicators. I have some advice. Wim, you have an amazing touch and play so sensitively and with such admirable attention to tone. Why not ignore Czerny and his supposed tempo indications and play these pieces how you think they should sound. The first movement is allegro con spirito. I heard very little spirito in this performance. The second movement is andante un poco adagio. This sounded more like molto adagio. Walking speed, not sloth speed. Think about the third movement and how a bit faster pace could make it stand in better contrast to the second movement. Just some thoughts of mine. Feel free to take what you will from them.

[@thethikboy]

When I played this - I played it twice as fast. At this speed , it loses any charm it had.