My first Freefoil experience with Beta Foils

[@mysweethubert]

This technology paired with a wing could make it possible to fly forever in the lightest winds. That's the part that's really exciting to me.

[@WakeThief]

I don't know, as I'm not a winger, but I expect we will all find out soon.

[@mysweethubert]

@@WakeThief if you could find a way to test it with someone who wings, I bet you would get a lot of attention, I for one would be extremely interested to see the result. You would also dip into a much larger market.

[@THRTL-JOCKEY]

That would be interesting/entertaining. Get out there with Tucker with MacKite. It would be great to see a collab with them.

[@JinKee]

​@@mysweethubertto wing, do you need some way to stick to the deck of the foil?

[@mysweethubert]

@@JinKee you don't need to, but some use straps. It is more useful if you're going to jump, to keep the board at your feet.

[@muskokaliving2072]

I agree 100% with your thinking on "Endless Flight". Nobody flies, drives, bikes, runs, or walks forever. Each has it own realistic and practical range that most of us need. It seems like the new Freefoil is already in the range for most of us. Congratulations!

[@WakeThief]

Todd kept telling me I’d love freefoiling. I need to try and see stuff to believe it. I’m a believer. And yes, not sure what I was gonna do when I flew an hour that wouldn’t be called freefoiling!

[@genevadaddy]

It seems super cool. A sunfish or a laser or any other small sailboat can take you for hours. The wind, daylight and your time are the only limits (that and where you can launch from a trailer or a dolly).

[@justincoats7236]

I'm sitting here saying, "No way!" Over and over watching this video. You did it! So cool. I've been following you for years. You wanted it, and you did it.

[@WakeThief]

Thank you, Justin. Making this video was an emotional experience for me. Lots of hours on foils led to the moments in this video. Thanks for taking the time to write, and your support over the years. Means the world to me.

[@justincoats7236]

​@@WakeThiefIt's so cool of you to respond. I had very little faith that your goal would ever be reached. I thought the technology couldn't go much further. My thoughts were to get in better shape or an electric efoil. It's so cool that you are now friends with Todd Reichert. He has to be one of the coolest engineers of our day.

[@WakeThief]

@justincoats7236 I’m not going to lie. I started to lose faith too. Todd is truly exceptional.

[@MrMatos1965]

​​@@WakeThiefir are you looking to distrib efficiently in Europe

[@irf888]

Hi. I'm not a pump foiler, rather focus on kite and wing, however I really appreciate the effort and commitments you make when analysing especially when you use data to backup your summaries (most others don't unfortunately). Wish you and your colleague all the best with the business venture!. Regards.

[@WakeThief]

I couldn't wish for a kinder response. Thank you for seeing and appreciating the details.

[@DRK_MTB_406]

Your video from one year ago talked of foiling for 30 minutes as the end goal of endless flight. Now 2.5 hours…mind blown and congratulations

[@WakeThief]

Thank you! I, myself, would still like to get past 30min, just so 20min becomes easy and I can now venture out even further. But, yea, it is truly amazing

[@J10TAY]

And just like that, we have a winner. I hope you can still carry on this channel even though you found a foil that will never be beaten

[@ukarlsson]

With the current price I suppose there will always be room for more reviews of the best budget alternatives 😀

[@WakeThief]

Thank you for your support. This is just the beginning. I haven’t even flown for an hour yet! This is one category. We are reviewing wake thief foils, new budget foils, and efoils! I’m also giving winging a try! I love this sport and I’m not going anywhere! So much to do.

[@WakeThief]

Absolutely! The most interest this summer has been this $1000 option that is a great way to enter this sport, and let someone see if they fall in love. mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=5

[@imd12c4advice]

Glad you are achieving your goals. Good to see you're teaming up with knowledgeable and skilled folks like Todd. Anyone who's been successful on the asphalt in BM, NV has my respect. Plus real world results are the best kind of proof.

[@WakeThief]

Thank you. Super kind of you to leave the note. Todd is as impressive as it gets.

[@tiesdayou2965]

This is awesome! A new chapter begins - congrats guys!

[@exactpause9218]

I'm totally blown away, I've never seen or heard of anything shown and now I learned that a guy can fly around for hours above water with just the power of his own body. Realisticly i know I'm far to heavy and unfit to do mor then two pumps on such a thing before I crash into the water but I'm completly hooked, this looks like so much fun if you got the hang of it, thank you for introducing me to this world - subbed!

[@WakeThief]

Super kind of you to take the time to share that with me!

[@wedding_photography]

Wing size: 2100 cm^2 Tail size: 340 cm^2 Aspect Ratio: 18.3 Total foil weight: 4.7kg

[@christinamattosomaia4991]

I am a wing foiler and was looking for a sport to practice my foiling when there is no wind. I want to purchase one Beta foil! I think it is wonderful

[@erikkpritchard]

Interesting to see the dual mast, like on the earlier hydrofoil boats.

[@unoxunox4086]

... makes a lot of sense to have lower forces on the joints.

[@drrock5356]

Epic! Thank you for showing the first major breakthrough in hydrofoiling in decades!

[@WakeThief]

The pleasure was absolutely mine! Thank you.

[@asfdoth]

Long time follower! Your dedication to this project over time is a credit to mankind's ingenuity throughout history. I keep thinking of the parallels of how Da Vinci's Great Kite design and the Wright brother's designs ultimately led to the aeronautics we have today. Obviously, all compressed in time through the power of Information Technology! Good job! Keep at it!

[@WakeThief]

It speaks volumes about your character to take the time to write something so kind. Thank you. While what we’re doing is so much smaller in scale and impact, it was nonetheless what I wanted to pursue.

[@marco_s3025]

Indeed. I may add,the rate of development since his early endeavors till now is in a time-line truly Great.

[@WakeThief]

Thank you, Marco

[@FoilFanatic42]

This is so cool! Cant wait to see what the future holds with this!

[@WakeThief]

Me too!

[@robertjones1730]

What about adding curved wing tips like on the Airbus A350? Surely there are underwater vortices at the tips that are generating drag that could be reduced

[@WakeThief]

Yes there is. But it seems most designers opt for wingtips like gliders

[@shoomz]

Huge congrats, this is just really great. I’m wondering how much easier it is to keep balance on choppy days - compared to a single mast design - as the big span front wing should react quite a bit more sensitive to even the slightest turbulence in the water. Also the wipeout looked quite similar to “single mast wipeouts” so things won’t get too easy in that regard it seems.

[@WakeThief]

Please don’t be mistaken. This sport isn’t easy. The freefoil didn’t make the sport easy, but it did make it easier. I’ve been fine riding through chop and waves. The large wing actually stabilizes pretty well. I wouldn’t say it’s any better or worse.

[@AdmV0rl0n]

I have a question. You are floating on a wing, and you use a pumping action that I assume uses a form of lift as thrust. I am noting that the pump action places nose down, and then nose up. I can't help thinking that this is screaming out for what I will say -- is akin to a dolphin tail. A flexible piece that has small winglets along its length and a small tail fluke. I believe that its movement would increase thrust (and perhaps some drag) - but overall, you want to exchange movement for thrust and more would be better.

[@WakeThief]

You’re right! We need to get back into this line of thinking. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZOqaqRniMt8q9k

[@3DPrinterAcademy]

Does it work well with a wing/kite?

[@WakeThief]

It’s designed for freefoiling but some use it for winging / kiting in light wind conditions

[@RasKitchen]

Hey can you tell me what is the app that tracks your path on the map with the yellow line?

[@WakeThief]

Yes. Relive.

[@wesrack0]

Good to see someone else using Solidworks. Let us know we can print you some parts here in Tennessee

[@marcoswelker132]

Everything in this video is just great. Sport, storytelling, editing,... good job!

[@WakeThief]

Thank you. It was from the heart, which made it that much more rewarding.

[@marcosfunky]

This is like a adventure movie! I fell shivers even typing here...

[@befree1558]

Amazing - I guess it would also work for very lightwing winging or paddle starts on flatwater with a downwindboard. A comparison with a Sabfoil Leviathan 1750 or Gong Sirus 186cm or even 249cm would be also very interesting. They also have a very high aspect, but single mast. Maybe quite a significant amount of energy gets lost due to the flexing of the single mast? If just 50 watts get lost, that's a lot when it comes to endurance.

[@stkl23]

That's what I was thinking too. It should be rather easy paddling this foil up in flat water - that way you wouldn't even need a place to dock-start from. The dual-mast should also prevent it from rolling... exciting times ahead!

[@laurentmuller7930]

Was also wondering if you could keep paddling on this thing instead of pumping.

[@scientificapproach6578]

This might make a great foil for wingfoiling during low wind speeds.

[@RasKitchen]

This looks boss! Thanks for the vid 🙌

[@JesseKellys]

Awesome. Bummed I'm only seeing this 7 months later! I need to lose weight for many reasons but the idea of free foiling and wind foiling is a primary motivator.

[@scottgorman7166]

Looks like a winner for foiling. I have a few questions....1) how does it handle wind chop on larger lakes....it seems low to the water and 2) how do you make turns? Thanks

[@steveothedeveo]

Nicely done. That beach launch looks super easy. Well... easy after lots of practice but you know what I mean. Compared to other foils. And so rewarding for you being able to pump to far away docks or piers. I love it.

[@WakeThief]

It's not as easy as it looks, but this foil certainly made it possible for me. I thought beach starting was beyond my skill set, but I'm so glad to now be doing it.

[@bernienovak1504]

Looks next level. Hopefully the price can drop a bit in the future so more people can enjoy this

[@WakeThief]

Yes! To reach the next-level weight and performance, BETA used ultra-high mod carbon fiber and designed/built the freefoil 100% in Canada.

[@chriswilliams213]

Definitely needs to cut the price in half before it picks up. It should be more then normal foils but at its current price, efoils make way more sense.

[@WakeThief]

Yes, at this stage we are on the verge of flying hours and every ounce of weight and watt of reduced pumping power matters. For anyone considering this sport of the first time, I’d start here if they’re not sure this for them. The 99 was the very foil foil I dock started and pumped for 1min! mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=5

[@andrewbodager2651]

​@@chriswilliams213I hope your employer/customers never ask you to cut your labor in half to meet their wants. Innovation has a cost!

[@ben3989]

@@andrewbodager2651but surely you under stand the trade off off low production/sales vs high production mass market dynamic? It’s what makes your really high tech tv cost only $500 at Costco.

[@cyberflightfpv4184]

I don’t know why but i hate that it’s called flying

[@fredfrond6148]

It is essentially flying through water. The principle is the same as an aeroplane, except the higher density of water allows the wings to be smaller.

[@WakeThief]

@fredfrond6148 beautifully said

[@johnnyappleseed.4420]

Don't worry you can still hydrofoil fly when they ban all drones. Didn't know drone operators were so sensitive.

[@danieljones8639]

Because it's not flying. Trying to defend it, otherwise, just sounds stupid.

[@arrzfr]

People who are actually foiling call it flying for a reason. What the couch potatoes call it really doesn‘t matter.

[@pcgurupontro]

nice approach. i was also thinking on dual mast aproach, as i believe thickness of masts can be greately reduced due to less mast twisting becouse of having more than a single connection point. I suppose the summed thickness of the two masts is less then the thickness it would require to connect the same wing to a singe mast, is that right?

[@WakeThief]

Great question! I will need to ask Todd to confirm. If I recall correctly, it’s about awash. The dual mast are each

[@snorttroll4379]

Please post the response here too

[@dezmantel4412]

Wow, looks very cool, 45min nonstop workout imho is the best, and the fact that you can start from almost anywhere, the cruising, very nice design.

[@JackDanYewell]

This is amazing! The only thing left is figuring out wet starts. Man I would love to invest in this company!

[@storkbreath]

It would be interesting to figure out a way to start from in the water at a dead stop like if you fall off or need to rest.

[@aleshaborisovich]

Cool! Is it possible to use it with the kite in ultra low winds?

[@awkonradi]

Do the springs shown at 0:48 make pumping more efficient?

[@WakeThief]

Too soon to say. It wasn’t conclusive enough!

[@awkonradi]

Thanks for that info. Great to see the progress. A higher aspect ratio wing does make sense. Good luck!

[@sikguystg]

Nice, I was wondering what you'd been up to lately since you werent posting much anymore

[@WakeThief]

This wasn’t the reason why, but I will now be producing more content. Stay tuned for our best foil 2023 which is up next!

[@vramsay]

Really missing your content and hoping that Beta hasn’t taken you out of the market 😂! There have been so many new products coming into this space, with so many new wings and boards. Your reviews were always so well done and informative. Hope we can look forward to more!

[@WakeThief]

Working on it! Thanks for the vote of confidence! I appreciate you taking the time to let me know

[@philscalia]

Fantastic. I know that you mentioned it doesn’t wake surf or carve like a” normal “ foil but does it do those things marginally well or pretty good or it really sucks at it. Asking as it looks ” easier “ to learn, control, etc but eventually one would want to carve and wake surfing and… wake thief

[@WakeThief]

The beta can ride wakes but perpendicular to them, not parallel to boat direction. If you want to wake thief, this isn’t the foil. It really is for pumping. Quite anxious to see if it works for downwinding.

[@MMcguire85813]

Amazing! I want one! I wish the price of entry was less so I could just buy one and try it out!

[@pauldonald1922]

What would happen if we added floatation to the foil fin by adding an aerodynamic float of foam coated in smooth sleek material. Wouldnt this allow for easier pumping?

[@WakeThief]

I love the creativity, but the drag of the large floatation device would offset the benefit of the extra lift it would provide

[@jugadeus]

I am so impressed with this Devon! Looks so good- beautiful production values. If you want some Western Australian testers the Perth dock start crew have their hands in the air😊

[@WakeThief]

I was so impressed when I saw it too.

[@znail4675]

Causally tripling the world record is quite a flex.

[@ukarlsson]

Really interesting. Do you know what made the most difference in this novel setup? Do you think a traditional single mast architecture with the same wings could achieve similar pump durations?

[@WakeThief]

Possibly. I’m working on a SAB 1750 review right now and will let you know! So far, I’ve found it easier to pump longer than the small wings out there.

[@cr83d]

Is there a system that can be good for pumping and also for wing foiling and voyaging as well?

[@WakeThief]

I’ve liked the axis 1150 for all around activities.

[@gisall8205]

I'm noticing a strong similarity between this underwater foil design and Real Glider that has a glide ratio of over 30 to 1.

[@tonymccann1978]

That looks f**king sweet. Would love to try that. Good job, great example of solid engineering

[@7ebuss]

This looks amazing, any updates now year later? And would this be a good foil to learn freefoiling on?

[@WakeThief]

Yes. It’s a great foil to freefoil on. 2024 endurance is better (working on quantifying it), handling is better, split wing and bag nice for transport into remote locations.

[@roberts.wilson1848]

The price is gigantic. Where can this be used? Only in calm lakes or what are the roughest waters it can handle?

[@politicalfoolishness7491]

I like everything about what I saw. I wonder if there could be a way for someone to start in open water. That may seem impossible but if there is a design idea that could accomplish it, that would be so cool. Perhaps some floatation under the board that gives a person a chance to mount the board in open water and then get going and once going the floatation is out of the way. Some clever design that allows the floatation to decouple from the water, sort of like float planes have the step to help with liftoff, but different for this situation.

[@WakeThief]

All great ideas … or even just make it easier to launch from a solid surface. Thanks for these.

[@politicalfoolishness7491]

@@WakeThief You are welcome. With the open water solution, a person doesn't have to swim to shore like an eagle that caught too big of a salmon. LOL Also they could take a rest when tired out in open water.

[@NathanFlorence]

Very cool!! Curious do you think some of the extended length was you getting more fit cause you were pumping so much? Like your endurance was going up? The latest beta looks very cool! Either way for sure the glide looks to have improved which is exciting

[@WakeThief]

I suppose it’s possible but not likely given I set my last record later in the season last year when I was more fit, and lighter (which makes it easier to fly) and this record was 5x longer than my previous personal best. These pump durations are really hard to test back to back across different foils. Also because technique matters so much and each foil has a unique technique.

[@Nath-sn1mv]

Bro the videi that lead me here, they were going INDEFINETLY!

[@cochese18]

Wow gotta thank the KZbin algorithm here, I didn't know this sport existed till today. Looks like you've got a well developed channel excited to dig in!

[@WakeThief]

How cool! Thanks for leaving these kind words. If I can help, let me know!

[@user9b2]

Add a tall handlebar so you can control the tilting more effectively. Use a short surfboard so you float better when not moving or too tired to pump. The combination of handlebars and surfboard may allow you to launch without dry land as you can stand while stationary….. maybe. Like on an airplane, would wingtips increase efficiency?

[@WakeThief]

Some folks are using this with a board that has a handle bar.

[@kalinamckee-koa-puna-kona]

I have two efoils. I totally love efoiling. But...the battery only last like 40 minutes then it's back to shore I go without burning any calories or muscle. I would definitely be interested in your board if it was possible to get back on from the middle of the ocean when you fall off and continue on. I would love the exercise and muscle toning that this board would give me.

[@jeremyneworleans]

Awesome! Can't wait for a more affordable price to make it mainstream!

[@phuckpootube6231]

LOL... so so true.

[@glucklichprutas4631]

Congratulations on the new design. Awesome 2½ record. Nice work on trying so many different types and coming up with a winner. Its expensive but so are high performance sailplanes or sailboat compared to a cheap hangglider or Sunfish. If I had to choose, I'd choose this Betafoil over any efoil

[@WakeThief]

An efoil will be a much easier way to get to an hour of flight, but this one is more fun if you’re looking for an endurance and fitness challenge.

[@orangellight]

Will you get a chance to test out the Ronix line up? I’m riding behind a small wake ski boat and would like to find out if any of their wings would allow me to ride without a rope. Currently I’m using the balance wing 1300 with the hight adjustable mast,however I’m currently unable to drop the rope. I was hoping a different front wing in Their lineup would help me but it’s expensive testing wings to see what will work

[@Pete_R63]

How did I miss this video? So cool! I have a guess, it was released on my birthday and I was scuba diving in Bonaire so I guess I was a little preoccupied. Looks really great!

[@ericegan5707]

Can you surf it though? Just with less maneuverability? Like would this be a good beginner surf foil since it seems it would allow you to get up on foil more often?

[@WakeThief]

No. You can’t surf it behind a boat or jet ski. The direction perpendicular to the wake and direction of flight (parallel with boat) puts a large span wing like this at two very different points in the wake, requiring the ride to hold it back from wanting to twist (yaw). This is an issue with every large span wing behind a boat or jet ski. I’ve road some wakes into shore with surprising ease. The tiniest of wakes will do. Anxious to see the first downwinder give feedback!

[@tofertarget]

Great stability for pumping. Is it able to surf a boat wake; first or second and move from wake to wake? Easier to pump than your gold standard?

[@WakeThief]

No. This is no for wake surfing. We still recommend our favorite wake thief edition at AXIS for that. This is a foil built from the ground up for easy pumping and easy launching.

[@venkuzephyr]

This is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been spinning my wheels with kites, wings, and groaning at the price of efoils. I wanted to foil for long distances without depending on wind or motors. This is it. I want to buy one as soon as they open back up.

[@WakeThief]

Pls sign up for the newsletter on the website. We don’t expect the supply to satisfy the demand, so it’s important you be notified when they’re back in stock.

[@venkuzephyr]

@@WakeThief Absolutely! I know you said that they don't carve, but were you able to experience how the Beta foil is affected by a wake?

[@WakeThief]

@venkuzephyr yes. It doesn’t surf easily. The wake is harder to maneuver / cross than with shorter span foils.

[@WakeThief]

instagram.com/reel/C8C2p5cPvu7/?igsh=dTFybHpsejE1aWZ6

[@slo3337]

This is a good idea, curious how far it can be engineered. Looks like some fun in the sun for sure

[@ЭнрикеЧурин]

I was really impressed and inspired by this! Definitely would want another video about it, maybe even about more technical parts, if it would make a good video!

[@WakeThief]

Thank you. Will do.

[@apricotscrub]

Can this be ollied up (no paddling, just rocking the feet back and forth to create momentum and lift) on a downwind board in flatwater? Im thinking yes bc there are already people who can ollie up the huge gong foils on a dw board.

[@WakeThief]

I’m quite sure it can be but not by me. I’ve seen people do it on foils that won’t fly as easily as this one. I hope to try it soon. A friend is sending me a DW board to try, and hopefully some of the first few owners share that experience.

[@dukegreened]

that's great, how much do they cost. somehow I know the cost is going to make it a no go for most the people who would be drawn to them and be able to stay on. my guess, they debut at around 3k. aluminum framing, well thought out foil wing, and a skim board essentially. manufacturing cost once rolling i'd say would be about $70.00 per unit.

[@stkl23]

How long is the dual-mast? This looks so effortless to pump.

[@WakeThief]

About 75cm

[@WakeThief]

Measured from board to tail

[@MrWeslapp]

Wondering if you feel that the two thin fuselages flex any so then the tail might "sweep" up and down and give extra thrust or if you felt like the flexing of the fuselages helped "pump" the board back up like a pendulum. Do you think the fuselages flex and this might make it more efficient, or do you feel everything is stiff like a traditional single fuselage foil?

[@WakeThief]

It’s a great question. There’s certainly some flex and energy storage in every component. The tuning was done on the water so it played into design decisions like rear wing angle and tail volume. I’m still convinced some flex in the foil can be good in some directions, but not too much. I haven’t enjoyed any flex in the roll direction.

[@hkanton589]

Was thinking about the same thing yesterday. New to foiling will have my first test run after my boat with a friends foil today (cant wait!). Was looking for information on the web if there are any pump foils with flexible fuselage and larger tail foil to help propulsion when pumping. Of course this will induce some drag due to a larger tail foil but having a unflexible fuselage seems very odd to me as a beginner when the movement looks quite similar to a dolphin kick.. Do you know if anyone tested this?

[@WakeThief]

@hkanton589 I haven’t given up on this. Check out our dolphin tail test of a flexible rear wing. We have more work to do

[@mwood487]

Hey! I'm in Kamloops BC and live on a river. Just wondering a budget foil that I might be able to use to start from a dock on the river. thank you! suuuuper stoked to try this out!

[@WakeThief]

Hi Michael. Infinity 99 in the one link and 1150 at the other link: mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=3 mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=5 The higher priced option is worth it in terms of value, if that’s still in your budget. These are affiliate links (we earn a commission selling nearly every brand and nearly every major North American retailer). Email with questions. Devon at [e-mail]

[@mwood487]

oh awesome, thank you!

[@miguelaguirre5915]

Thanks for this amazing development!. What's the minimum turning radius (sustained turn)? What's the gliding distance? Maximum speed? Typical maximum range speed ? Will you do a full review like the other foils? So many questions !

[@WakeThief]

Great questions. Guessing 15m u turn (10m on a smaller span). Ideal pumping speed has been 3.1 m/s for me at 180lb. Lots still to test / learn. I’ll get some measurements and share in future video

[@sifly_efoil]

Thats for shure a super glider wing..Thanks for pushing the sport to the limits🤩

[@jeffw8218]

I know one person who wants to buy one 🤷‍♂️ And he’s the guy in this video.

[@Hotwire_RCTrix]

What I see is improved yaw stability and higher aspect ratio. What I never understood about these craft is a front stabilizer replacing the rear stabilizer. True it needs a mast but rear stabilizers can't be substituted anywhere on a fuse.

[@WakeThief]

Yes. But if stabilizer is further back, it’s total area can be smaller (and introduce less drag).

[@MrSasuke67]

This looks so cool ! I'm just starting to get interested into hydrofoil and I have absolutely no experience in foil surfing, I love the fact that this is purely human powered, without the need for waves or wind. I'm living far from the ocean and wanted to ask if the beta foil might be suitable for a complete beginner like me ? I'd be so happy to practice a watersport like this on the small lakes and rivers we have around where I live 😍

[@WakeThief]

It’s certainly suitable for a beginner, as much as any foil is. This sport is tough, and takes some practice (and patience), so if you’re committed, I’d go for it. If you have a budget, you could always find a used setup to test your interest first.

[@noobsaibot5285]

Cool! Perhaps a flexing front foil and deep double hulled floating board? Would that help to launch from deep water? I thought of something like this once: a self propelled foil that can float and get foiling from stationary in deep water. The closest thing I have seen is the Aqua Skipper, but it doesn't float.

[@WakeThief]

That might just work. This space is advancing fast!

[@noobsaibot5285]

@@WakeThief You know what I am talking about. We can already do it on a foil sup with hand paddle. To get up with just the rocking motion from a floating start might open up some doors to different users. I thought perhaps a backward rocking motion to generate the initial forward momentum would be the go. Like when you push your surfboard underneath the water and it pops out like a rocket. Just need someone in the right space with right vision to make it so. Or we could all just get tow boogeys if they become real cheap.

[@jamesanna7061]

I am a proficient kite foiler. But with a kit my hydrofoil is to small to pump and there is never really a need to pump. What kind of a learning curve would you expect me to have learning to pump this foil?

[@WakeThief]

I expect you could pump fairly soon after learning. Launching takes time. What brand do you have? I’d recommend getting a front wing w 1700sqcm of area or more and as high aspect as possible and learn with that.

[@ItzGanked]

super cool wish the trade off wasn't turn radius though

[@WakeThief]

I totally agree.

[@jean-louisgermain9732]

Awesome but it isn’t on the market already?… can you make turns or you need a huge place for your 180° turns

[@WakeThief]

For sale starting July 9. First batch has sold out. Working on preparing a second. I think you need 15m to do a u-turn. Probably 10m on a typical 1m span foil

[@Tribe-watersports]

So cool! Great work on charging forward with the sport!

[@WakeThief]

Thank you

[@terrablader]

Very inspiring, I wonder if anyone will ever find a way to watch from the water without having to use a doc

[@mattheweamespiano2947]

Hey!!!! Quick question - I’m really into wanting to get good at pumping and all and get out there and ride some rolling swell on Catalina island. I came across the art pro 1201 on axis and it seems like a good one to perhaps sgart with? Big surface area, HA, and more maneuverable than 1310 PNG to be able to play easier in the swell - do you think this is a better option?

[@WakeThief]

I haven’t been on it yet, but I would expect it to pump very well and faster than 1310 but probably a bit tougher to dock start. Would you paddle up, tow up or dock start?

[@adamnevelos3197]

Hi, thank you so much for videos i am watching you a long time and you got me in the pump foil sport, i race on iqfoil in czech republic and i have two questions. Fist is have you tried the gong high aspect foils for pumping? Did you buy some foils from china or tried some?

[@WakeThief]

Thank you! I haven’t tried any of the large span gong wings. I believe many of the good foils are manufactured in China already. I have tried a foil I purchased from a shop on alibaba. It was too thick.

[@motoryachtloon]

We do a lot of wing and kite foiling. Can wait to give this a try! Nice one 🎉

[@temp5001]

This is amazing. Can you still catch a wake with it? How does it feel?

[@WakeThief]

I’ve caught small wakes and been able to ride them but it’s quite hard. This foil is for flat water. I wouldn’t recommend it if you want to ride wakes.

[@apricotscrub]

How good does this foil work going against the wind

[@WakeThief]

Your questions are the best! I actually found it best on calm days. I thought I liked tailwinds but for some reason it’s not as enjoyable as a calm day. Maybe the lack of pumping control and the disturbances in water don’t make me as efficient. I’m not sure. Headwind always sucks.

[@approxsolutions6946]

nice. Wondering if use of it with 120kg is realistic especially in the sea (Mediterran or Atlantic ocean)? 4k++ is a nice price tag but the question is if it works…

[@Trk-El-Son]

Just out of curiosity: Have you tried paddling it? Also, maybe it would be possible to waterstart using a short paddle sitting on your knees, then get up and put the paddle on a mount on the side of the board. That way it would be possible to venture further into open waters. Just thinking out loud here.

[@WakeThief]

It’s a great idea. I haven’t paddled it up. I’ve actually never paddled a foil up, but I will try soon! I’m quite sure the early customers will be doing it to and sharing it.

[@brandonb417]

So I have to know, how hard is this on your knees? I would love to get into this. I don't have bad knees, just not 100%.

[@WakeThief]

I suppose it depends on how bad your knee is. It’s low impact. I had a bad knee (meniscus surgery) and it’s helped build muscle.

[@brandonb417]

@@WakeThief that's way awesome. I single water ski and my legs are so out of shape. Sounds that would help a ton. Plus, I live only 5 minutes from chickamauga lake, so it'd be awesome. Thanks for the reply.

[@DrjOnesfan8]

ha this is Saratoga lake! I grew up rowing at SRA, too funny!!!

[@WakeThief]

Amazing!!!!!

[@Fjordjumper]

I would love to replicate the board mount you're using in the opeing scene. Can you tell us what it is exactly? Do you have any clear photos of this? TIA

[@WakeThief]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fF7YkmWhqd-CrJIsi=rPgfeqT3JeK_2ZuD

[@Fjordjumper]

@@WakeThief Thanks for the quick reply!!

[@pipeacosta2008]

Awesome !!!! Thank you for sharing this type of content. Why do you think this foil won’t wake surf ? I live close to a lake that has mild wind and would love to use this foil with a wing ! Do you think it would work ?

[@WakeThief]

I’m an avid wake foiler. I’ve found that large span wings, starting at about 120cm (depending on tip area) are just too wide for the size of the wake and it yaws the foil making it harder to surf. I’ve tried the freefoil behind my jet ski. I wouldn’t recommend it. I’m not an avid winger to start with and I haven’t winged with it but I would anticipate early takeoff and low drag (due to exceptional physics) but slow top speed as area is 2100sqcm! With huge span it would likely feel locked in in the roll direction and it won’t carve as tightly. I can’t wait until someone tries it and let’s me know!

[@IanLauder]

@@WakeThief I mostly boat wake surf and I've had all the Armstrong HA wings at one point (sold them all now) and tried them both boat wake surfing and on the efoil. Once you get to a certain width (much less than this beta) its just too hard to boat wake surf a wide HA wing. The wake wants to kick you out sideways and these things react so slowly to input its really not ridable. I could see someone practicing on this behind the boat but you would put on a long rope (~80-100ft) and get out in the flats and practice pumping while holding the rope, learn how to pump and balance on it first then start off the dock. I do that with the Axis PNG1150, and while we can ride that wing on the boat wake, its still almost too wide to be a fun ride on the boat wake. If you tried behind the jetski maybe you were too close or too inline with it and were stuck in the propwash.

[@WakeThief]

Said perfectly and better than I’ve ever heard anyone say it. Thank you, Ian. I will use this explanation in the future.

[@IanLauder]

@@WakeThief FYI - used your coded link, looks like I got #10 of the 1st beta batch.

[@lr21643]

While I'm sure that optimization makes a big difference, from watching your video, it seems like the biggest single factor is a longer span for the wing. Of course, as the wing gets bigger, eventually it will get slower than a single scull. What sort of foil sections do you use? Is a pumping foil section necessarily different from one you might use with some other power source that doesn't involve pitching up and down? This stuff is technically fascinating, but it's unlikely I will ever be fit and light enough. I have short legs, would weigh 180 lbs if I was in great shape, etc. I'll be happy if I can get to the point of biking up steep hills again.

[@Doc02864]

Is the wing larger and more buoyant keeping you up longer with less effort? Slower?

[@WakeThief]

Larger wing lets you fly slower (more lift). Larger span reduces drag (like a glider)

[@Jochumvideos]

wow this seems really cool, but also expensive. Good luck with the project

[@soronir3526]

I didn't know this was a thing that even existed, I find it fascinating.

[@Bazakilouis]

Very nice, i sold my efoil because it was just very boring. Just standing, not active. I love kite foiling but this looks like a very cool sport. Like jogging on the water. A good workout keep you fit. The price is still a bit out of budget

[@BlazingShackles]

How do you get back on when you fall in the middle of the lake?

[@WakeThief]

When we were beginners, we didn’t cross lakes. There’s no way to get back up, so stay near the shore … or take a chance, but some times there’s a long swim home.

[@BlazingShackles]

@@WakeThief what about the motorized ones, can you get up anywhere?

[@WakeThief]

@ yes

[@robdickie9215]

If you implemented 2 shock absorbers instead of arms that don't move so it powered a propeller just by weight bouncing on it that would give you more forward propulsion

[@808bigisland]

flies easely - a small 1m kite with 1m lines/bar might just do it together with a floating board. The big caveat is - this wing does not turn well...a single mast version?

[@rolltidemofo]

How does the weight compare to your other foil setups?

[@WakeThief]

The freefoil weighs only 4.7kg. This is similar to the 4.4kg weight of my favorite foil for wake thieving: mackite.idevaffiliate.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=102&url=3

[@pump-foil]

Where can we see the 2,5h vidéo ?

[@WakeThief]

Of course. Let me figure this out (and watch data).