Walking Away From a Game | Magic: the Gathering | Commander

A tough conversation about tough conversations.
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[@infinitedaryl2267]

I had to leave a weekly group when I started out, so I feel this one. I was constantly bullied and disrespected by one player then invalidated by the others when I called it out. I am embarrassed it took me a long time to leave because I thought I wouldn’t find another group. I was wrong! As soon as I left I found two fabulous play groups and to this day have a great time with them - they make up a large amount of my friend group and I even found a job through one. So my advice to anyone is the same as yours: you can always leave! New doors really do open when you close others. This advice works for everything in life. Leave anywhere you feel bad, your company and time are valuable. Someone elsewhere will value it.

[@WeatherWeasel66]

did you just go infinite Daryl ? how about just call it a draw and play a couple of different decks :)

[@smegmalasagna]

Do you know why you were being focused? They could indeed just have been dicks but there are enough decks that logically become the center of attention. Feather, the Redeemed for example is a kill on sight target.

[@infinitedaryl2267]

@@smegmalasagna I had six decks at the time of varying power levels. It really wouldn’t matter. There was some out of game things going on with him for sure. I gave him more than one opportunity to voice them but he didn’t. Once he even told me he attacked me because I “was the weakest” or he’d just flat out refuse to explain his logic. He played Skullbrair with infect a lot, which is the perfect commander (like Feather) if you want to be mean to one person. Either way it wasn’t the environment I expected after watching online games. There was also a lot of toxic masculinity thrown around. Once he even put on an American football game in the background without asking. O and did push ups during my turn. He was actually ridiculous looking back. Not something I’d put up with now.

[@smegmalasagna]

@@infinitedaryl2267 This reminds me, the person that got me into magic turned out to cheat a lot. I no longer talk to him. It's nice to hear that you found playgroups to actually have a nice time with.

[@bobby45825]

@@infinitedaryl2267 Just sounds like the dude had other priorities and accidentally fell into commander.

[@Ladyjessica0]

Not only using commander to teach people to be good to each other but also how to be good to yourself. That was an amazing practical example of healthy boundaries. Interpersonal communication is key in life and in game :) thank you.

[@TheMegaMagikarp]

"oh yeah it's a pillow fort deck" Me, rewinding and pausing the video to see what card is in his hand: "OH NO."

[@ylygylygynda]

“I’m not having fun” should be a sufficient reason to leave a table.

[@xanderjones6239]

Joey going into straight REAL talk 🔥

[@yes.thatjanedoe]

Well not straight into it but yeah 😂

[@xanderjones6239]

@@yes.thatjanedoe lol

[@F4xP4s]

Joey’s Protection: You and all permanents you control phase out for the rest of the game.

[@nelsikegaming]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@green_dragon_knight]

And the most important piece of rules text: “after you phase out, you feel ok that you did that”

[@rolandking640]

This might be the most important video I have watched about EDH in a year

[@Sbryant154]

I brought a new player with me to edh night at my lgs. I explained to others that we are with a new player, so if they dont want a slower game helping them learn, probably isnt the pod they want, this was before everyone sat down to talk. Some did walk out, which is fine, but with one group that I was with, the new player did win a game with a precon, and was super happy! I was happy! Yes, I did have to guide him through a few things, but it was a cool experience (it was with the call for backup deck). One of the players in the pod wasn’t to happy with losing to a precon and decided to play the Ur dragon, when I noticed, I tried playing one of my stronger decks, but I couldn’t keep up with the god hand he had. Ur dragon won, my friend didnt have a good time, the store was like 30 min from closing so we left there, but then I talked with my friend about it, apologized how the game experience was and how its not always liked that. So I’m hoping this wont change his mind about the game.

[@Frozirra]

Damn, ur dragon against a precon… dude sounds like a salty little bitch, I’m glad your friend got one good experience though. I give you props.

[@minimumwagereviews8431]

Dude, I'm so happy you wrote this, I love magic and have now been playing for years. But when I started out I ran into a bunch of players who just wanted to stomp and had no chill. I'm still probably not a strong player and instead stick to playing goofy fun decks. I generally stick to my friend group but one time a close friend and I went to a card shop to play with new people. While waiting I joined a group of 4, they accepted me joining but then ignored me and basically pretended I wasn't there. And before we started one guy stayed he build a combo deck that he saw online and sure enough he cast his commander and he combo'ed for the win. Everyone was shuffling again and asked if he was going to play with it again and he looked at me like a dumb ass and said of course. So I bowed out and thanked everyone which I was met with eye rolls. Super weird energy. My friend showed up and we started with 2 others, one guy super cool the other... Not so much. He played extremely competitive decks and stomped us 3 games in a row... No one was having fun and he did not care. Fourth game ended the same way but super quickly so the chill guy said we were going to keep playing the same game and that we weren't going to play with him anymore tonight 😂😂😂 boss move! He packed up and then grabbed my binder I keep my mythics in and started going through it without permission. I asked him not to touch my binder and he told me that I shouldn't have brought it then, that it indicates I want to trade! Moral of the story ... I only play with my friend group which sucks because I do like challenges and I want to grow but I've had too many bad experiences.

[@The_MechaGojira]

I really do enjoy teaching new players, and to go out of your way to do it correctly! Holding back a bit, making poor decisions to teach them how to respond, and guiding them to victory. I absolutely play king maker when teaching a new player. My goal becomes keeping the other players in check, while guiding that new player to victory.

[@Alexvandy35]

I love videos like this from Joey. Being real and opening the discussion about being a better person and in turn a better gamer.

[@rolandking640]

We should all strive to be better people

[@JasonVickeryEsq]

Loving the sassy Joey. Sad that he needs to bring it out in the first place.

[@kovala]

The “your dad calls me daddy” line made me spit out my Mountain Dew.

[@jasonholmes5714]

@@kovala same literally same

[@WeatherWeasel66]

@@jasonholmes5714 i highly doubt that 1- you mostly likely weren't drinking mountain dew at all. 2- my pet peeve is people that misuse the word "literally". you may have been drinking a beverage but exactly Mountain Dew ? Try figurative...

[@WeatherWeasel66]

sorry can't help myself. it's stupid for it to bothers me at all but im a weirdo...

[@plunderedandmarooned]

@@WeatherWeasel66 literally, as defined by merriam webster: "used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible." definitions of words can and do change with time, we didnt find english engraved on a stone tablet somewhere, we made it up.

[@NateFinch]

You are a gd treasure of a human being, Joey, and the Magic community is so much the better for having you in it. Thanks for all you do.

[@jamescooley5241]

Love you Joey, you're such a positive force for the community

[@mrjonnymac]

I think a nice add is to include a crucial expectation in a pregame discussion: "oh and hey, if during the game it isn't your specific flavor or what you weren't looking for, we totally understand if you play in a different pod." Leaving the door open helps so many people who may feel trapped in a game situation who may not have the time or courage to step away.

[@joles72]

This took courage, and I like and respect that!

[@gerardochavez1528]

You’re so much more elegant and graceful and tactful than I could ever be, I wish I had your patience like that around the less than kind people in the community. By far my fav voice in edh

[@namdoolb]

I'd say rule zero & the pre-game discussion doesn't always help, but it never hurts. Some players have a very extensive catalogue of decks, but quite a few don't. Especially when you have players of relative inexperience who haven't had the time to put into building a stable of decks. And of course with inexperience comes the tendency to push the power level on the small number of decks you have (as much as budget will allow). As a longtime player with a large collection of decks, it's easy to forget that a lot of people don't have that flexibility available to them. When you have 20+ Decks at your fingertips it's pretty easy when heading down to the store to pick 5 decks that you know you'll be happy playing today and also cover most of the power scale. I think the onus is definitely on the more experienced player to build (and prep) with a range of power levels in mind. If you've got a large collection and a large number of decks then you want to be building and bringing decks that will maximise the range of tables you can play at (this applies to all commander players to some extent, but mostly to the more experienced & prolific players with the bigger collections). If you get down to the lgs with 5 decks in your bag and they're all near cedh level, if you find yourself sat at a table against a bunch of lightly modified precons then that's on you. Even more so if it's a repeat occurrence. Story time, my closest lgs (not my fnm) opened up just after lockdowns finished (new store) and started with a decent sized commander community. A lot of these players were new, and I got to witness a full blown "commander arms race" first hand. It wasn't pretty. A lot of players with only 1 or 2 decks, differing levels of desire to compete combined with different levels of disposable income to create some fairly disparate power levels. Since a lot of the players were fairly new (12 months or less) they didn't have a lot of options for decks & a lot of them didn't know how to walk away from a game they were a bad fit for. A good few players didn't make it through that. Thankfully the ones that remain have started to learn the value of varying their power levels. Also, 60 card competitive play has started to emerge at the store. Which is a good thing since it competitive outlet for players so that the competitiveness doesn't come out to an undesirable level in Commander. See, I believe that magic is best enjoyed as a whole. With social formats in balance with competitive constructed formats and limited play. All 3 are essential components and none of them should be overshadowed.

[@Mecal00]

"and also your dad calls me Daddy" bruh 😂 amazing.

[@mattdriver6875]

I said that to my husband and he was cracking up lol. That really is q good one lol had me in tears too.

[@demeyesoftheuniverse8170]

*laughs in PanMan* 😂😂😂

[@douglasarnett-arnold1516]

Top tier line

[@brianmulligan2280]

Kinda lame honestly

[@klick37]

This video is genuinely both entertaining and really, really important for some people to hear. Great stuff. Edit: I nearly forgot to mention, Joey is a king.

[@RedViking007]

The shot at the Last Airbender live action movie at the end was so random and very much deserved LOL

[@josephhernandez6430]

THIS THIS THIS. I swear I can't explain this better, but this is my exact philosophy on commander, and something that I've even struggled with in my own play group. While I enjoy playing at LGS's, I love my playgroup above all else, but we've got one problem. My friend group is a little all over the place in power level, but I've been trying to get everyone on the same page of "hey, it's fine if we want to have decks across different power levels, but let's communicate about it ahead of the game to make sure we're all aiming for the same experience". Another similar conflict has come from conversations about when and how to concede, because while scooping is entirely reasonable, sometimes in late game scenarios it can alter the course of a game in a way that doesn't leave people satisfied. Above all else I think this just highlights the importance of communication in casual magic. If we're all here to have fun, let's talk about the things that affect the way we have fun

[@gaymer4rmmeletis]

I 💯 agree with this comment as well, with my personal playgroup it’s more that one player is insensitive to the other players at the table by calling a “aristocrat” themed deck a cheap way to win or just hearing him rip on people’s favorite commanders and decks. I sometimes want to just ask him to stop being so negative to others but he’s so sensitive himself that someone is disagreeing with him that it shuts down the entire mood of the table. And it’s sucks cause well I don’t have many people to play with. It’s tough out here lol

[@josephhernandez6430]

@Gaymer4rmMeletis yeah that's really unfortunate. Just because a deck isn't winning through combat damage doesn't mean it's broken. The only archetype we have rule 0 banned in our playgroup is storm, not because its broken, but bc it takes too long to know whether or not they're gonna win in one turn

[@gaymer4rmmeletis]

@@josephhernandez6430 and that’s completely fair and awesome! And thing about the guy in our group; he loves Voltron, which isn’t a bad thing at all, you do you boo but don’t criticize an alt win con when you literally use 21 commander damage one in most of your decks. He completely shut down, quit on his turn and left the house of the friend that was hosting….it sucks but they’re all I got lol.

[@eliomolla8659]

We had those same problems on my playgroup and I'll share my solutions: For the powerlevel problem, we just sitted one night and made a full Tierlist of the power that we felt all of our decks were, saying beforehand that a "weaker" deck is not worse, or poorly constructed, but probably is looking for a more relaxed experience and "everything goes". From then on, our games only use decks for two adjacent Tiers, and the game experience has improved a lot. We make sure to keep the tier actualize both with the new deck and the major changes in the current ones. Maybe is not something manageable if you have a lot of members and decks, but we are 7 people with over 45 decks between us and growing, and has worked for us. For the conceding issue, we hard-ruled that you can only retire at sorcery speed unless you can kill yourself with in-game tools (lighting bolt yourself, paying life, etc...) Hope my experiences were helpful for you :)

[@Srynan]

​@@gaymer4rmmeletis As someone who has been that type of person with a "negative mindset" for quite some time - it is NEVER wrong to point out when you feel hurt or disrespected. For me, having others talk to me about it helped me realize it was a problem and only then could I search for the cause of that problem. The responsibility to change however lies with the one causing the issue - as to whether or not you others still want to give them chances is up to you. I encourage you to speak up and tell them what is bothering you and maybe also ask if it is even about the game. In my case, it rarely was something within the game, the game was just an outlet for other problems most of the time. Hope this might help and I wish you lots of fun playing Mtg!

[@wyatt5450]

"Your dad calls me daddy" just kills me. Rule Zero is a definite yes. We absolutely talk about the power levels, card inclusions, maybe a few combos. We play for fun, not being a dick.

[@xanderjones6239]

Absolutely. This goes beyond the game of commander, it's about meaningful interactions with our fellow humans. It's about building eachother up.

[@rings-cn1yn]

"My favorite part of every video is when Joey makes me want to bang the shit out of him," I would say, but that would be crass and rude so I won't say it.

[@wyatt5450]

@@xanderjones6239 In a casual setting, it's a casual game. In a tournament setting, it's a serious game. You don't need to make every play the best you can make each turn unless your table is playing that level of power. No matter what table, I always ask for rule Zero or just calmly chime what my deck does.

[@WeatherWeasel66]

Actually some people just enjoy being azzholes

[@Carriantor]

Hey Joey, kudo’s for diving into the various grey lines, your advice is priceless.

[@RefaTheGreat]

I dunno if you've ever seen the Worst Possible Commander show, but I really liked their version of the Rule 0 conversation. Basically you lay out what the worst possible thing your deck can do is, and don't really give any more information than that. It stops you from feeling like you're giving all of the information away but helps set a good baseline expectation (I think anyways!).

[@mibbzx1493]

Yea with CGB and the gang. I dont know every combo well enough but if i can see how it works then it can help stop it instead of already being in a game and getting beat by it when its too late

[@bobby45825]

Disagree, because to get to certain board states, they'd either think you're either lying or you'd make it too obvious what the gameplan is and they play around it to stop it. If I'm intending to play with a specific group of people more than once, I don't mind being surprised the first time and just keeping it in mind what that deck is trying to do in detail.

[@Crockist]

How does this work? Do you lay out a single card or is it like creating a certain board state

[@RefaTheGreat]

@@Crockist Can be either depending on what it is.

[@Thimbrethil]

Ow Joe, I wish I had this life lesson long ago. Unfortunatelly I didn’t put my healthy wellbeing on first place, insted I let anyone to sit on my head, and I was submissive generally on life. Other people good mood was more important than mine, other people’s opinions were more important. It didn’t end up well. Last year I was hospitalized twice in psyciatric hospita, with depresion and anxiety diagnose, after I was fired from job. And it all started from someone close telling me over and over that I’m selfish and crybaby. When you said „You can’t bask in my glorious presence” it felg so warm. Thank You. Every second of our time is precious. And every and each one of us is important. Be good to yourself, because It’s nice when a person who will spend it’s whole life with you, treats you with respect.

[@diegogamba7825]

This is so on point and soooo relevant with stuff I've been experiencing with a particular someone in my playgroup.

[@thefrizmeister3666]

I'm glad you made this video! Someone needed to talk about the things you said in this video. Someone needed to say the hard things that have to be said. I hope this video makes people think

[@kareth117]

"I just think it's really embarrassing for them to flaunt how bad they are at media comprehension" is such an excellent comment, honestly.

[@Notananimename]

I loved hearing "play more removal" so much, I made a deck based around my favorite magic card, murder. Even in a deck designed to have like 32 different methods of murder, I have had times where I just didn't draw any. People should run more interaction.... But life is random.

[@Mecal00]

Same. I have a deck that's chock-full of removal/prison effects, and plenty of times I still don't draw the card I need. 🤷

[@b-1edward293]

Speaking on a similar thing. Had a non landfall deck with 40 lands. Drew 2 in my opening hand and only 1 more the whole game. And none of my 7 ramp cards. Talk about bad luck. 😂 Still enjoyed the game, though.

[@martaneon5310]

A "walk away" story I have: I had this one opponent who was just rude. He was argumentitive when I remarked how rare it was that two players both brought mono red decks and how I thought it was interesting. At another point, I put +1/+1 counters on his creatures with Shadrix's ability. Instead of asking to borrow dice, he said to the table "use your imagination." I leant him my dice regardless. At one point, I swung Shadrix, Drana, Liberator of Malakir, and an Inkling at him. Because of Drana's damage ability, I gave him the first strike damage first, put the counters on my creatures, then gave him normal damage. He didn't touch his life counter when I gave him the first strike damage, he wanted the total. I had forgotten how much the first strike damage was, so I had to undo my +1/+1 counters, walk him through how much damage he was taking again. Instead of just letting me talk, he started arguing with me, leading me to make a miscalculation. After a bit, he stormed off, saying I should learn how to play my deck.

[@garagavia]

So throwing in my two cents into the discussion here: I recently scooped in a game where I myself and made a very big mistake (involving casting a death cloud and locking myself out). This was a game with my playgroup that I play with a lot. In the game, one player was way ahead, and had the option to recast the death cloud and lock everyone else out, but chose not to do this because it was unfun in their eyes. I felt that I should just concede the game and prepare for going next, because I was sitting on one or two cards in hand, no creatures and no lands. I figured the game would wrap up faster with me out of the game, and I was also annoyed that my opponent elected not to cast a game winning spell because it was "unfun". To me that triggered the whole "I've already won, but I want to keep you alive so I can go off for another few turns" thing, which to me is not the kind of experience I'm into. However, when I scooped it up, the other players at the table just felt really bad, and scooped themselves. That was not expected from me at all. I found that when scooping, it took the whole fun out of the game for the other players. We had an extended discussion afterwards, talking about the impact of scooping and when it is ok to do. I just wanted to leave the game because I was not enjoying it anymore, but me leaving took the fun out of the game for the remaining people. We concluded that in a game where you want to concede, to avoid making the game less fun for others, it can be good to ask them first, just to understand the impact that decision has on how fun the game is for them. After the discussion we played another game and ended on a high note.

[@echo7992]

I really appreciate you putting this out there Joey cause I had a situation where we all sat down to play EDH and discussed our decks and what they were looking to do then shuffled up and around T3, player 2 tutored for a counterspell and made it very apparent they were saving it to counter Player 3's commander and keep them from playing the game, so at one point player 3 used some removal on something on Player 2's board and player 2 flat out said they were going to target Player 3 and ensure they didn't get to play the game. It was miserable and after three turns of them doing everything they could to make Player 3 miserable I scooped and said it just wasn't fun and left.

[@skylarthoma5353]

“You don’t need to light yourself on fire to keep other people warm” I’m using that line with my therapist, damn

[@OokyDaniel]

When I went to my first ever EDH night at a LGS I had a MISERABLE time - I felt the pressure to try and make a good impression with everyone, so that I could perhaps play with them again in the next weeks and months. The first game I played I sat down with my only deck at the time, an unaltered Strixhaven precon and was taken out of the game by Turn 4 in the "Casual League" at this LGS by a mono green player with a fully proxied deck - Which I normally don't have a problem with, but when they're playing Gaea's Cradle it's like... I chalked it down to me having a bad deck and didn't think much else of it, because the group themselves were chill and pretty sweet altogether. Then we were all separated into new pods, to play with people who had also placed 4th in their games and it was a disaster. These people were slovenly, and making extremely sexist, racist and homophobic "jokes" - even when I am quite clearly a queer person. I asked what pronouns everyone used and I was laughed at. Whenever I played anything, I was spoken over and not listened to by anyone. The guy kept ignoring me until finally I literally scooped and packed up my playmat and just walked away - I made a complaint to the LGS Owner, who was mortified and NEVER returned. It almost put me off playing EDH, but now I go to a different LGS and play with a really kind playgroup of fellow queer people, who are now my friends.

[@zatchimo5177]

I think what he means when he says he can't leave is just that he only has one group to play with so it's either play or give up Commander. It could also be that they're his friends and he doesn't feel able to just step away without causing a serious rift.

[@nelsikegaming]

Yup this was my situation as well. I have like 2 friends who play and they each have 3-4 decks so if they're all high power I can't really play my fun janky decks or if all they have is precons now 80% of my decks are also out the window. Idk Commander is something else lol I wish I could find a playgroup I really enjoy playing with.

[@cylonsteve2511]

@@nelsikegaming I want more casual/janky EDH games too. I hear you.

[@nelsikegaming]

@@cylonsteve2511 Yes!!!

[@zatchimo5177]

Yeah, ive broke down probably 4 or 5 decks simply because they couldn't hang with the playgroup anymore.

[@cylonsteve2511]

@@zatchimo5177 It is rough. So much for Eternal Format 😅

[@jasonholmes5714]

Can I like this more than once? If a player must be shown one video to explain to them how to be a decent person and a good player, this is up there. Bravo.

[@calebbrown1068]

Great energy and a great message. Thanks for the work you do to make us better players and people.

[@dustinmartin648]

Bottom line: You are the commander of your own time. Commander is a casual format so the option of not wanting to be part of a table is always on said table. 😂

[@pletato4729]

I really appreciate all of these videos! love how you are helping people be better to themselves and others

[@Helixcards]

i feel like "just play more removal" has become the new "dies to doomblade" while i agree that people do need to run more removal, it just gets old super quick

[@samhillier5167]

Joey I always love listening to what you have to say. This was an eloquent and well-spoken discussion

[@kylescott2290]

I resonated with this and thought you articulated your arguments well.

[@puffinCZ]

That was so amazing! Love your thinking, love your attitude, love your way of playing Magic. Hope you inspire people...

[@elwinvanderhall1858]

I enjoy your fabulous company online always. Great effort Joey to bring these difficult topics to the open!

[@josephgovernatori6771]

I love this message Thank you so much for being who you are and being such a pillar for this community.

[@KykyJyky]

I love this video, Joey. Thanks for some great perspective

[@Crypt4l]

Thank you for voicing that opinion. I had that come up only once, but I think it's important to keep that in mind.

[@grevedanko]

This might be one of the best and most important videos you have done Joey. Thank you! ❤

[@Surberus1066]

I teach Behavioral Management and Crisis Intervention professionally. It's amazing to me how much overlap a pre-game conversation has with other stuff I teach in my world. And I think you did a fantastic job of laying all of it out. If you ever want to bounce around the topic more, I'm happy to chat!

[@leonardwooley8806]

Excellent job in tackling such a nuanced topic.

[@MrSchneides]

You are lovely and thank you for this talk. It is really helpful to hear.

[@ChrisDavis-tt1dj]

I was in a game where player 2 made fun of Player 3’s wife. I just looked at the guy and asked him to knock it off. Then I won next turn. He called me gay and walked off. We all clapped and found a new fourth. The personal jabs have me scratching my head. Seriously, get good and a have fun with your friends.

[@andrueurbane7361]

An exceptionally classy approach to the game and to life my friend. I tip my hat to you in the utmost respect.

[@Vilegorico]

Thanks for talking about this. When playjng at my LGS, I often feel like I'm a hostage when I don't feel like playing against certain decks, because I don't have other tables to go to. If I'm lucky, I can join another table 30~40 minutes later if someone leaves. But most often I won't be able to play at all. I only have time to play 3~4 games a week, walking away from a table and losing that is heartbreaking.

[@undeaddueler13]

I think one thing people also forget is you don't always have to do the most optimal play, if you find yourself playing a deck more powerful than everyone else's you can slow play a bit. Most infinite combos can be made finite if you want them to be

[@jakepetropoulos1074]

I absolutely feel this. I had a buddy start an arms race at the table, and I accidentally went way overboard and built my first tokens deck- ghave. First game, I accidentally went infinite mana tokens 1 1 counters and realized I had made a mistake. It was the only deck I brought, and I spent the rest of the night leaving my phyrexian altar in my hand or discarding to effects to make the game more playable.

[@undeaddueler13]

@@jakepetropoulos1074 we've had to deescalate a number of times at our table to make it a bit more friendly to the new faces lol

[@TheButTickler]

There are many, many power levels when it comes to Magic cards and decks. You HAVE to have the discussion before you play or someone can end up having a really bad time. I have decks that range from Precon level power all the way to “I’m gonna win in like 4 turns” so we have to talk about it. It sucks that people have had bad experiences with that

[@martinmilner7281]

Ty Joey . Delicate and precise well done !

[@kovala]

Joey is a person I would love to be friends with IRL

[@benjaminwileman4771]

I agree. No excuses. We each have the ability to make sure its a game we will enjoy, or we can walk away and try again elsewhere.

[@erenscott]

Great video. Probably not the most pleasant one to make. Really appreciate someone saying this.

[@codyreid2605]

Great vid Joey, thank you for putting this one out

[@moralessanchezoscarelias6412]

Such an important topic to address! Thank you, Joey. I believe we often lack the language to communicate efficiently about how we feel and expect (it’s an soft skill that is not taught intentionally), and that makes pre-game conversations more challenging for people even when they are trying to engage in a conversation in good faith

[@fuzsyskunk4252]

I love Joey! He truly seems to be one of the most wholesome and articulate MTG personalities on KZbin. I bet he is a genuine treat to hang out with :3

[@captaincaspercorvus7863]

Thank you so much, Joey! ❤ The best video so far! 😗👌 Chef's Kiss for the whole EDHRECcast Team! 😘

[@yuen4817]

This was beautiful and much needed

[@tomcjr.2870]

Fantastic video. Couldn’t have expressed it better.

[@CriticalMatt009]

I love and appreciate you and your content always!

[@jaysalvadoriiisalvosa1625]

I love, love this. Thanks for making this video. ❤

[@matthewphibbs]

This sums up the commander dynamic infinitely better than anything I've ever heard or discussed. Ultimately, for me, it boils down to how complex the problems are within the commander community, which sounds paradoxical, but it isn't. We as players just need to talk more with each other and be willing to be honest about what our commanders can do! I've been on both ends of feel-bad games, where I wasn't honest, or just ignorant of my own power level, or where I was lied to. My local community rarely, if ever, has turn zero discussions, and this video has inspired me to open those dialogs because I want everyone. to feel included, and I want everyone to have fun. Thank you for having the courage to make this video.

[@RichardQuorvisGardner]

Very well said Joey, beautifully articulate as ever.

[@addicted2SODA1]

I agree it's hard to walk away. Games have been a little harder to come by in recent times. The rule zero at the beginning is something I try to encourage, but it tends to not accomplish much in my experience.

[@danielmurta5652]

In recent months, I have decided to make Magic into an actual full blown hobby, which meant spending more time and money with it. As part of this process I decided to play on a weekly basis. Since my pod is quite inconsistent in availability, that led me to explore my local LGS more often, which resulted in something I like to call an EDH Roulette (yes, after the Russian Roulette thing), because games are either a thrill or a kill. I’ve sat to play games at surprisingly fun tables. I’ve played with beginners. I willingly sat at a table where people were playing Armageddon effect cards (they were straightforward about it). I’ve been lucky around 70% of time, and it all happened when people were open about what they were looking for. The worst experiences I remember having (the leaving the table kind) were: - A guy was an asshole to everyone. When the game was over I was about to quit when he himself left, saving us the trouble. - on another occasion the people were nice, but because they were friends they only targeted me no matter what. I politely changed tables at the end of the game, which was mostly fine because another friend of theirs arrived. No big deal (kinda regret putting it here) - But then I played with 3 strangers who were strangers to themselves as well. They all claimed they were playing casual decks, but one of them had Yuriko. It felt weird, but I believed in him until he went mystical tutor > extra turno spells and won the game turn 4. We told him that was absolutely not casual, he laughed it out and changed decks, claiming he was getting a better one. Phenax. According to him, there was no combo, no tutors. On turn 4 he revealed a tutor and milled a combo piece. Although they were there, they were not being put to use and the game was actually flowing. But another guy got so pissed he decided to combo off the game himself. He tutored a combo piece and won the game on spot, also on turn 4. That day I got up and said I’d rather go home. They tried to say they had other decks and stuff but I said I was done. One of them went as far as asking my number and apologized, which was cool. The biggest thing here is social awkwardness. I am a shy person and I had to be profoundly pissed off to be able to stand up and quit after that last game. I was never rude to them because I’m still quite polite, but inside I was fuming. I’d say this is probably a big problem, because I often see people in this community who are also shy and having problems speaking up, so they’d rather lower their head. With that in mind, considering this fear of walking away might be a lack of social repertoire, videos like this are ESSENTIAL if we want a healthy community in the long run.

[@RazgrizAce67]

In the words of Superman (voiced by Tom Taylor), "I have no mercy for cancers posing as men."

[@oateater5044]

That was sweet in every sense of the word. Thank you, Joey

[@richridley6566]

Very powerful & personal video, really covered the topic from a great positive perspective. Thank you, Joey for caring!

[@colinsheffieldpharm.d.8931]

Thanks Joey, this was really well spoken..

[@samd1757]

That was a good video with a calling to proactive decency and ethics at the table. It shouldn't have to be said, but well said it was!

[@rookt31893]

I will add to people fudging deck power levels, sometimes it's just being dumb. I got a Light-paws from a collector edition box. I had some enchantments and built it up because it was reasonable for my budget. What I didn't know was how FAST that little fox snowballs. I was turn 5 removing people from the game and no one had answer until the end where I got swarmed by vampire tokens. That was my second commander game and I had NO CLUE how strong that synergy was. This is to say sometimes deck fudging isn't intentional deception. Sometimes that Light-Paws player was just a dumb dumb. I would try and ask myself if it's deception or just ignorance. With that said, you right. Even if it's innocent goobery, you have a right to walk away for the sake of your sanity.

[@RefaTheGreat]

Had the same experience with a Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain storm deck. I just liked drawing cards!

[@murilofreire4569]

my wife has a Light-paws. That foxy sure do wipe some asses xD. We do let people know though.

[@thechikage1091]

Usually I'm able to tell if someone is lying about their deck, or just found a new synergy. It's all in their reaction to them playing it out. If they're very deliberate, they know. If they're somewhat pausing between resolving triggers and looking around their board, and going wide-eyed at certain moments, they didn't know how big the gun they were holding was until they pulled the trigger. And honestly, I really enjoy playing against the latter, even if the power level is way-skewed, because that player is going through a discovery and there's nothing I love more than seeing someone else have an epiphany of greatness.

[@Hysterikku]

THANK YOU for making this video.

[@nightreaper006]

Love your mental state of approaching a game....wish I would meet more like minded peeps

[@hunterransom2594]

I feel like you can’t leave because- you might be at an LGS where Pods have formed already. Which means if you don’t sit in this game. You might not get any games in. I’d rather have a rough experience than no experience

[@murilofreire4569]

Rule 0 on my pod: No LD, No extraturns, No infinite combos of any kind. Best decision ever, no griefing, no combos that get old after the first time and warps the meta around it, and no players playing solitarie on endless turns. Oh and please, DO PROXY, it makes no sense that your budget keeps you from experiencing great casual gameplay. Leave the originals for collection/tournament purposes. Also, its nice to sort metas. We got 3: Control, Midrange, and Blueless. It works as it avoids bad matchups for everyone.

[@magica3526]

I saw beamtown bullies and thought it was really cool until you listed the cards it went with. Now i want to build a beamtown good stuff deck with some way to recover the creatures

[@EDHRECast]

It totally can be super cool! That direction sounds like a rad idea. Letting the table know what you're doing (and more importantly, what you're *not* doing) in that deck will probably go a long way in helping everyone be on the same page.

[@BadDrummerCarl]

Donated creatures get exiled so you'll need to blink or return them to hand. It's tough to do but an interesting take on the bullies. You can build a successful downside deck but not include the 'Instant game loss' cards like Leveler, Sky Swallower, Inverter of Truth

[@magica3526]

@@EDHRECast oh definitely gotta preface it

[@magica3526]

@@BadDrummerCarl i have too many (unintentionally) mean decks already

[@Boggsman]

I purposely do not sit at certain tables. I'm there for fun and gotta protect my peace. Once someone is a douche in a game with me, they're dead to me. I got a nice little group of friends to play with, I don't need to suffer that of assholes. Love this video.

[@Huckleberry_Sid]

OMG. THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT. I despise it when the response to a game going sideways on a social level is "run more interaction". Not only is it the most obvious of responses... like yes, I could have stopped that turn 4 infinite combo if I stacked my deck with interaction... but it's also the LEAST constructive advice anyone could give. Especially if what that person is looking for is more about the social expectations of the game.

[@kylegonewild]

You can always forfeit at any time, for any reason. It may be inconvenient to others, and you should maybe consider how it might affect your image among the other players if it's a regular playgroup situation, but it's *ALWAYS* an option on the table. I've had to walk away from games for various reasons, usually unsavory people whose personality only comes out after the cards are drawn. I've scooped on turn 1 when I realized I had sat down at the table with a fun, goofy little deck I put together to play with the other goofy, barely modified precon tier decks some new guys brought, and a 4th guy who is not only playing thousands of $ worth of cards, but plays banned cards without saying anything and misinterprets mechanics to his advantage drops 6 mana onto the board on turn 1 against decks not even running Sol Rings and signets.

[@BadDrummerCarl]

Sounds like you played against Cassius Marsh 😂

[@nelsikegaming]

@@BadDrummerCarl I WAS JUST THINKING THAT HAHAHAHAHA I clicked on "1 reply" saw your comment and died laughing

[@PrimeEnLightenedShadow]

There are Magic: The Gathering players, and then there are "Magic: The Gathering players".

[@HamburgerTime_]

Commenting only to say how much I appreciate the use of "dingus"

[@rileyluhrsen8749]

"Your dad calls me daddy, get over it." Will live in my head rent free forever. Great job, Joey, keep it up!

[@aeorling]

Toxic people try to make you feel guilty for not giving them what they want or agreeing with them. Fuck 'em. Great vid, hermano!

[@metopro-lol]

You’re so damn eloquent, Joey.

[@Hamond1989]

Very important message you told there, good work :)

[@lightfut]

We shouldn't need so many reminders to be better, more mindful people, but it's good to have them

[@Maverick0945]

So I think when someone says "you can't leave" I don't think they really mean you, the player, physically cannot get up from the table. I live in a smaller town so Commander night only has 20-30 people in it. I only really get the chance to play once a month and once pods are full, they usually stay full until the night's over. If I sit at a table, I "can't leave" in the sense that I have to choose between playing a potentially not-ideal game or not playing at all. I don't really have a choice in what I'm playing against if I want to play for a few hours, especially when in the back of my mind I know that if I leave, I can't play again for another 4 weeks. Having a long winded "I didn't get the right energy from this table, best of luck" and then getting up means that I'm getting up to leave the store. I'm lucky that this store is pretty chill, most people play whatever for the first game and there seems to be an unwritten rule to switch decks to kind of match the power level of what other people are playing. Most people bring 3+ decks so after game 1 its pretty common to see a player or two dig into their bags to switch up. In short, your last interpretation of the phrase is probably the most correct imo. My goal when I sit down is to play as many games as possible. If that means they combo out because no one stopped them? Sure, let's play another I only have 3 hours left.

[@eduardoparanagua1031]

I'm pro pre game conversations, the thing is, in my experience they don't happen. Often time I go to the LGS and there is one table playing, I think sometimes a bigger market might be better for such conversations

[@waynefeller]

I had a game where I brought a new deck. I told them it was a lower powered deck, and so they pulled out lower level decks themselves. I inadvertently had an amazing hand, and went off, quickly controlling the board. , and essentially staxing people out. One of the players was upset as he felt I had lied about its power. We agreed to a second game, but I pulled out a different deck. In the end it was a good night. A few days later I asked to play my Magar of the Hidden Strings deck again, and he allowed it. He realized that it wasn’t as powerful as he thought, as it quickly folded to removal and boardwipes. He then understood that the previous game was as just a fluke.

[@thechikage1091]

I just had a game with one of my newer decks like that last night. It was only 3 of us, and I was playing a toxic deck, which I purposely built very sub-optimally to counteract a little bit of it being, well, poison counters. It's a Vishgraz, the Doomhive flicker deck. I drew an enchantment that gives my creatures skulk in my opening hand, and several flickers. I won on turn 6, two turns after getting Vishgraz out because my friends couldn't take out the 9 tokens I made, and couldn't block them as they were 1/1s with Skulk. I felt a little bad, but it's also the first time that deck has popped off at all. It usually reads "dies to removal" Or "3 board wipes have been cast by turn 7"

[@Russian_engineer_bmstu]

"my deck never did this before" can really happen tho, I had it happen. random T3 bolas's citadel without hitting a land soon did that for me for example, and that was just a slightly(15 cards or so for like 30$)upgraded elf precon

[@TreyHancock1986]

“Your dad calls me daddy” is my new catchphrase

[@aytakk_mtg]

An experience from a couple of months ago at the local LGS. I was playing in a game and a younger player (I think he is 15) is playing the new poison pre-con. He has his commander out and is using the ability to steal cards from the top of people's decks. One player running a very finely tuned dragon combo deck was telling him not to touch the card he was shown with the ability. It wasn't that he was asking not to touch his cards (he made a point that it was worth a lot of money and is double sleeved for a reason) but the stern, angry way he was doing it. Immediately the mood at the table dipped. It certainly made me feel very uneasy. Since then I try to avoid playing in pods that guy is in. I find a lot of what I do comes in handy to learn what I don't like in a game so I avoid repeating it. Like when I started playing EDH by just using old cards I have I used board wipes that also had land destruction. I used to love playing with and against cards like Jokulhaups and Pox in multiplayer games years ago. But times change. People don't find it fun now so I acquired other options. I had a game where I was amassing token creatures and +1/+1 tokens so my turns were taking forever. I don't like it when other players monopolise time so I modified the deck to take out the +1/+1 stuff. It isn't as strong but it makes it more fun to play against and to pilot. I also avoid things like Seedborn Muse effects and the like where I have a turn in everyone else's turn as I don't like it happening against me. Plus constantly being asked "did you pay the one?" to stop effects is annoying so I avoid those cards too. Fun for everyone should always come first and it takes a while to get it when you used to be a tournament player.

[@williamrodenbough5518]

Thanks for doing this video.

[@TheGentlemanDuelist]

Your little monologue at 5:30 is how I introduce all my decks. I’m also forthcoming about potential infinite combos and 2-card combos like Apex Altasaur + Heroic Intervention. Also, to quote Buster Scruggs; “can’t force someone to engage in recreation.”

[@Dragynstone1202]

The sass levels! They're off the charts! 😁