Everything You Didn't Know About Flight Jackets

Retired Tomcat RIO Dave "Hey Joe" Parsons goes in depth about the history of various designs of military flight jackets.

[@Roberto-oi7lm]

An interesting historical piece. I’ll add to it from the point of view of an old timer who flew Navy Fighters “back in the day”. I flew the F-8 Crusader on the West Coast in the late 60’s and early 70’s including 153 combat missions over North Vietnam. We had a different sense of style from that outlined in your video. For example, we wouldn’t be caught dead with a leather flight jacket. Leather flight jackets were highly desirable and we got one whenever possible but strictly for Cumshaw purposes; not to wear. A leather jacket was a valuable trading item because every black shoe wanted one. We Fighter Pilots shunned them because we didn’t want to be confused with East coast aviators who, as far as we were concerned, were non-combatants who spent their time lounging around in the Mediterranean and catching the clap in Sigonella. Or worse, we feared being confused with Stoof Drivers, Cod pilots, and helo jockeys many of whom wore the leather flight jacket. And these guys frequently wore their combination cap (cap with visor) while we only wore ours with our dress uniforms. Otherwise, we wore a piss-cutter, green when possible because those were the days of Aviation Greens, a very nice uniform. Our jacket of choice was the “Poopy Suit Liner”, just like the one you held up in the video. Mine is labeled Jacket, Suit, Flying, Winter Specification MIL-S-18342c (WEP). Contrary to what Hey Joe said, these jackets along with the matching pants are designed to be worn inside the dry suit not outside. As you mentioned, all Naval Aviators eventually gather a collection of patches which amount to a history of their flying career; however, we generally did not wear them on our flight jackets. “Less is more”, we thought. Typically, our poopy suit liners had a leather name tag on the left side printed with our name, a set of wings, and an optional line selected by the pilot himself and was sometimes the current squadron number and/or squadron name (VF-162 The Hunters in my case) or something like “FIGHTER PILOT”. We commonly wore our squadron patch on the right side and sometimes our airwing patch on the right sleeve, but that was usually all except perhaps a centurion patch on the left sleeve. Plenty of F-8 drivers had nothing but their leather name tag on their jacket. Wearing a bunch of patches on the back of the jacket was considered inappropriate and kind of dorky. Quite a few guys had their collection of historical patches sewn onto their garment bag rather than their flight jacket. We over-did things in countless ways, but an excessively decorated flight jacket was not considered fashionable even though a few guys failed to get the word. Sometime in the late 60’s or early 70’s these poopy suit liners were no longer in the supply chain and the Navy started issuing a different fabric flight jacket. It was a lighter and slightly more grayish/green color, the fabric was different, and it had different styling details. We didn’t like them because every agreed they looked “too Airforce”; ……..Oh the horrors. A Naval Aviator being confused with an Airforce pilot was a fate worse than death, or so we thought at the time. FULL DISCLOSURE: I, for one, still consider this to be true. So, we hung on to our beloved poopy suit liners as long as we could. I still have mine, but all my leather jackets have long since been traded for some custom sewing by the riggers, some metal fabrication by the metalsmiths, an AK-47 or two, or some other gee-gaw I considered more desirable than a leather jacket. Times change of course and so do styles. As Mr. Gump might say, “Dorky is as dorky does”. Keep in mind that we wore bell bottom pants on liberty and sported big Fu Manchu mustaches, and huge Rolex watches. It was very cool at the time but pretty dorky looking now that I think about it from today’s perspective.

[@TurboHappyCar]

That's hilarious, thanks for sharing! 👍

[@KutWrite]

I second that. Well said and fun to read!

[@jamescherney5874]

In the 70' s I remember most guys had a leather name tag, a squadron patch and one or 2 shoulder patches. Never any patches on the back of the jacket. I' ve got a patch from every squadron and base I was stationed at and have them in a frame on my wall.

[@davidsmith385]

Wonder if the guard was given another assignment after that.

[@tankman7711]

Back in the late 1980's my old C.O was a Mustang and always wore his Navy G1. He also wore his original aviators device (wings) that were 24 karat gold. I learned a lot from him!

[@johnstacy7902]

Like a guy that was a Cheif and got his commishion or a guy that was in the fleet for a couple years until he got into the Prep School before getting in the academy ?? I know several Army pilots that had dad's that where lifers that knew how to work the system. They were good guys and not horrible pilots...

[@KutWrite]

I think those actual gold wings were ones you could buy yourself. They were instantly recognizable, esp. with a patina in the crevices of the sculpture.

[@bill51891]

I am absolutely in love with this channel! I found it a couple days ago and cannot stop watching! Mooch, you are just awesome! When I was 18 I marched my little butt down to the Navy recruiting office in my home town and told the recruiter that I wanted to be a Navy pilot! He watched me walk in so he understood what I was too thick headed to know. That it just wasn't possible. See I was born with cerebral palsey..don't get me wrong, it never slowed me down much, yes, I walked with a limp, and couldn't run as fast as my buddies or climb trees but I was a red belt in taekwondo and trained all the time. Anyway, he could see how excited I was and he went through the whole presentation with me! Then said son I'm so sorry, but you just don't qualify because of your disability. I never forgot the kindness the man showed me or the time he spent with me when he just as easily said get out of my office, boy and quit wasting my time! Anyway, I had a good life, the disabled caught up with me several years ago and I'm now pretty much.in a wheelchair. So you can imagine how much I enjoy.your channel! Thank you Sir! P.S. I don't think my wife as the same opinion! Lmao

[@johnharris6655]

Maybe you can find out more, but back in the 80's there was a base commander who forbid the wearing of flight jackets on the base. I think it was John Lehman who was a pilot at the time from another base had his jacket and was told to remove it by the sentry at the gate. Later when Lehman became Secretary of the Navy, he issued a standing order that flight jackets can be worn on any Navy base for any reason.

[@JustaPilot1]

Lehman was an NFO, A-6 BN, and the base was NAS Oceana. I believe he was SECNAV when that happened.

[@johnharris6655]

@@JustaPilot1 Thanks, like I said I did my best to remember the facts after hearing them 30 years ago. I do know that when he became SECNAV he did issue a standing order that flight jackets may be worn any where at any time.

[@benjaminperez7328]

@@JustaPilot1 Holy crap…. Imagine you’re that gate guard giving a ration of s**t to that Reservist NFO and later finding out said Reservist is also SECNAV…….. THAT’S WHY THEIR PHOTOS ARE ON THE QUARTERDECKS, DUMMY!

[@robertupchurch8088]

In 1985 I was Chief Engineer of Pearl Frigate. There were Nomex coveralls available in the supply system for the Snipes to wear when operating the plant but we could not afford them from our consumable budget that also had to cover tools, lube oil and so on. One of my enterprising Ensigns (a USNA grad) borrowed the ships truck and went to the Hickman AFB salvage building. He came back with hundreds of “unsuitable” Air Force flight suits. With the COs permission we outfitted the engineers in discarded USAF flight suits. The Helo Det pilots told me my zoom bag was nicer than theirs. Included in the pile was a light weight Air Force flying jacket I claimed. I could find nothing wrong with it other than a tiny imperfection on the fabric near the zipper, I wore that jacket in cold weather climates and on all my later sea tours, still have it.

[@jrwendelinbot]

I was a PR in the Fighting Renegades of VF-24 and sewed many a flight jacket of all varieties back in the day. Great episode!

[@fredflintstone3956]

When were you a Renegade? I got my orders to report in Oct 83

[@jrwendelinbot]

@@fredflintstone3956 I was there March ‘83 to Aug ‘85. I don’t remember a Fred Flintstone tho

[@DeborahMoore-vk5jl]

@@jrwendelinbotI was MMCO 85-87 under Shewell and Naughton. Replaced MMCO Weller.

[@DeborahMoore-vk5jl]

Lt Klessinger

[@kleenk8]

Great segment. Still have my G-1 I received after completion of USMC Flight Indoctrination Program way back in 76'. Wore it throughout my 20 years in the USMC flying CH-46's. Turned in my green Nomex when I retired. Put more unit patches on my G-1 after I retired, and the toughest part was finding a shop with a sewing machine that could penetrate the tough leather. It still has the perforated USN on the leather zipper guard. Contract date 76'.

[@douglasgordon1822]

Great episode, good “look back” memories. In the ‘70’s, Marines were issued the BUWEPS jacket if assigned to flight school; Navy guys had to dig and scratch in the fleet to get one. Also, as a Helo guy, I never put patches on the back of the jacket because as part of preflighting, I had to squirm on my back on the oily flightline under the Helo. Ruined!

[@tedgraf4101]

Ward, another very informative video. You and Hey Joe sure know your stuff. When I reported to VF-32 in July 67, the riggers took my G-1 jacket and immediately sewed on the squadron patch, leather name tag with wings and rank, F-4 patch and the American flag on the upper right sleeve (stars facing the back which is backwards from how it is worn today). Over the years more patches were added as I flew in different places - VF-96, Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, River Rats, etc. It's a cool jacket and a great memento.

[@skyking1328]

Oh Skipper ! That's the most pilfered piece of flight gear I ever had. I lost at least 3 leather jackets and 1 nomex issue. You couldn't hang them up in the chow hall or even leave them on the back of a chair or they would vanish. I even had my car window smashed out and they stole my jacket with all my 1000/2500 hour pins, plus helmet bag. Squadron issued me a new set , but I had to go to Lockheed Martin to get my P3/C130 pins re-issued. I still have a 1976 issued jacket , but at 75 I can't fit into a size 40 anymore. Additionally, I don't have any PR's to to replace the frayed cuffs. The leather is perfect, the cuffs are trashed. Thank You for producing these videos. It makes me look back at my 28 year career, Vietnam to Desert Storm P3A/B/C +EC130Q + A6E. ATCS sends !

[@dennishayes65]

Skyking1328: Former VA-42 Intruder plane captain 1973-Aug 15,1975.

[@Old_Foxy_Grandpa]

I got a G1 flight jacket in the '60s for redesigning a system to improve the throughput of systems in intermediate maintenance facility. The jacket was a little gift from a grateful Master Chief and Supply Corps Captain. Not bad for a common sailor with a graduate degree in Operations Research. It's still in my closet and I wear it periodically. No patches, I was never on aircrew. Still in new condition. One of the two uniform pieces I kept. That and the Peacoat. Moral of this story is if you want one, cozy up to a Master Chief in the supply depot.

[@KutWrite]

I got my first Civil Service job via some good conversations with a Supply Corp LT and LCDR. They actually created the job for me. No jacket, but a good job working for those men, and a career that, though interrupted, yielded me a livable pension.

[@tomwalsh4126]

I was at the SecNav brief when he gave us back our brown shoes. When he asked what everyone wanted somebody actually threw a brown shoe up on the stage. He looked over at it, asked "Really?" That's when he asked if he could do that. The applause was overwhelming. He was also talking about reducing the number of annual issues of Approach but keeping monthly issues of Naval Aviation News (budget issues) but the crowd Booed that so he said ok, Approach stays monthly and NAN goes bi monthly. Also popular.

[@qtrfoil]

At the time I had the thought "The Commandant of the Marine Corps would lose his freaking mind if the Secretary of the Navy told him what the Marine Corps uniform was going to be."

[@samilsilta9004]

Thanks for bringing in "Hey Joe". Very knowledgeable, and seems like a super nice guy!

[@richardgreen3068]

I started flying as a Naval Aircrewman in P-3 Orion's with VP-26 in Brunswick, Maine in 1973. We were issued the nylon jacket with the pants and a fur lined hooded dicky as our winter flying suit. You needed it for the Maine winters! Of course my first trip onerseas was to the Azores, so we damn near died until we could change to the summer flight suits. Good times. Thanks for renewing my memory.

[@tommychew6544]

I've 100% enjoying going back thru these older episodes from before I found your channel! I love history and this one covered a lot of things!

[@bryantturner97]

Nothing looks better than a clean G1 with NO patches!

[@timgernold1715]

I got my CWU-45 jacket because of an ordering mistake. As a nuke down in the engine room during the Enterprise overhaul of 90-94, with the ship full of holes, we were supposed to get M-65 field coats but instead got the CWU-45. We were told, "Merry Christmas, don't wear it on the ship." Wore it with pride for many years until it finally fell apart just a few years ago. Kept mine clean, never added any kind of patch, despite the Top Gun popularity. Would love to get another one, one of these days.

[@jf5336]

I loved reading Approach, back in the day. Really enjoyed this, not sure why I missed the live stream. The two of you are just fonts of knowledge!

[@gregalanharper]

Hey Mooch, That was great! I wasn’t expecting anything terribly fun but, as usual, everything you put out is full of fascinating information and a heap of entertainment. I really enjoyed it. Thanks!

[@nuvostef]

My Nomex flight jacket - one of the perks of being an “Alert Photographer” (not bright-eyed and eager, but on alert for a quick launch) - is one of my prized possessions. Thanks for another great episode, Commander! 🤙🏼

[@WardCarroll]

Thanks, Stefani!

[@bennybenitez2461]

As VP P-3 Aircrewmen (NAC) flyer within Naval Air Reserve after my tour with VF-32 (1980 period) I got my goatskin and still have it. Great presentation BZ shipmates.

[@KRW628]

I had wanted an A2 since I was a kid. Finally got one in my 40s. For some reason I actually preferred the CWU45s. I got one of those, and I flew with it. Sailplanes and Cessnas..

[@RogerSanGabriel]

I'll do the same.

[@fearlessjp]

Great History, thanks to both of you. Loved the part about the jackets shrinking! That happened to me but as you said, I still have mine. I was NAC in-flight tech for TACAMO 88-92, got issued both the G1 and the nomex. Oddly when I got out, the Squadron PRs would only let us keep the G1 but not the nomex. It couldn't be recycled since it had all the "winnebago" patches. Keep up the good work.

[@Mariner311]

Another excellent brief/instruction - just to add, those of us with the NEC - 82XX were also allowed Flight Jackets. I was issued my G-1 at Pensacola in 1987 upon graduation from NACCS and RSS... still have it and it still fits (it is an OLD G-1). At the TIME, AIRPAC rules stated that the only things permitted on the G-1 were your nametag, squadron patch, and a US Flag... Got my CWU-36 at the squadron - and THAT was a serious Winnebago - ships patches and det patches from all 8 of my deployments in the HSL community, and my 3 carrier deployments as a roving ASWModule Analyst. Stained also with hydraulic fluid and various other lubricants and adhesives... thanks to the dirty bits of pre-flights relegated to the Aircrewman... AND ALL HSL Aircrew at the time were ALSO Plane Captain qualified as well as helped the Detachment Maintainers on all phase inspections. (I DID eventually get a 2nd Summer Nomex - I have both hidden away). And you're certainly right about the Nomex flooding the "squadron spaces" and even some ship crews... that STOPPED in the HSL Wing PAC in 1990 (?) - The Admiral at the time needed a replacement Nomex, and was looking at a fairly long wait since he was an odd size... yet he saw almost every Maintenance Chief and Supply person wearing one... the HAMMER FELL.

[@stevenscoville2773]

In the late 70's after I had transitioned from the USMC to USN, I was in HC1 when we were preparing to go aboard the Coral Sea CV43 while it was completing it's time in the "yards" at Bremerton Washington. I flew as aircrew in an SH3-G from NAS North Island (San Diego) to NAS Whidbey Island so we could be on plane guard for the ship when it went to sea for the beginning of trials. We were delayed due to various problems and a fire in our berthing spaces and while I was killing time flying local "fam" hops, my wife had a medical emergency back in SD so I had to get back quick. I put my original brown leather jacket in the crew box in the back of the helo and of course when I checked after they got back it was gone. I did get the green jacket you were showing when I was a maintenance chief in VF31, 1984-87. Later traded that for some custom hoses at AIMD. Truly great barter items!

[@stevenscoville2773]

Hey Joe mentioned the kabar USMC knife of which I still have mine!

[@brocbradley2313]

AOCS class 24-84 proudly went to the supply hanger at NAS Pensacola for their new leather flight jackets. 1984 must not have been a good year for leather because I've seen footstools in cheap hotel rooms made of better material. It was, however, what we were issued and remains dear to me. NAS Oceana O-club briefly sold some very nice goat skinned jackets in late 1989. and I was able to snag one. Excellent video.

[@danielroncaioli6882]

I have my Army issue nomex flight jacket from the 90’s, and I have my Uncle’s issued personalized leather flight jacket from 43-44 with the 8th Air Force.

[@PaulRing67]

Hi Ward. As a civilian, and a Navy brat, I have always admired look of a good flight jacket. I'd like to buy a jacket and put some of my favorite military patches on it. But I worry about what veterans like yourself think about the practice. As innocent (and stylish) as it may seem, I fear it skirts the line of "stolen valor," so I'd love to hear your opinion on the subject. Also, I love your channel. Your videos are great brain candy for this Naval Aviation nerd. Thanks for that, and for your service.

[@KutWrite]

As a retired reservist, MHO is this: As long as you're not portraying yourself as having achieved something you haven't, you're OK. The worst you'd come across is a fanboy, which many of us are, in some ways. Stolen Valor would include putting a name tag with, say, Navy Wings, rank, or other insignia you hadn't earned, maybe the name of a real person other than yourself, or adding ribbons you hadn't earned. Squadrons give away and trade their patches, so I figure they expect people will display them in some way. You can also buy jackets "pre-patched." In my search for a authentic jacket, I found a place that sells a "Maverick" weathered G-1 complete with the "poser" patches he wore in the first movie. There's also a "corrected" version. The jacket looks genuine, but for the movie patches and the name "Maverick" on the name tag. It's also $750. See my above post for the source I found with the best jacket. That took a few days of searching. I think they look better without patches, anyway. That's how I was advised by a salty aviator when I was in Flight School, but I didn't listen, so my previous, issue jacket ended up with circles of sewing holes. This time, paying $478 for the jacket, I'll leave it naked. I bought a name tag with my own name and retired rank, but probably won't even have that sewn on. I hope this was helpful.

[@timsparks7049]

Put the patches on but NEVER WINGS. When i see them worn, I will challenge them sometimes its the Fathers jacket which i will let pass. Others I gently remind them what it took to EARN those wings of distinction. I am prepared to offer more examples that are more serious if they push back.

[@KutWrite]

@@timsparks7049 What "more serious" examples?

[@patrickjames1080]

Hey Paul, I guess the no reply from Ward is your answer.

[@andrewlee6866]

Great watch! So glad I stumbled across this. I was a P-3 JO in the 90’s. I always was fascinated by the squadron patch lineage and had Dave Parsons book on Navy squadron patches.

[@jml7429]

I went through API in July, 1995 and I fondly remember “Christmas Day”. The day Schools Command issued all of our flight gear. We got both leather and summer nomex. Later in my career I got a winter nomex. Unfortunately, my G-1 was stolen during a move from San Diego to Meridian. I did get a new one but I miss my “first”.

[@davesflightsimstream5905]

Great show! The number Joe pointed out wasn't actually the contract number, it's the specification number (specs for making the item). The contract number was last the bottom, just above the size number. Thanks again for a great show and all you do!

[@SuperTexasBlues]

If I'm not mistaken, Mr Parsons was in VF 102 when I was in the AE shop... cool to know he's still active in aviation

[@davidmcneil2296]

My dad was in the air forces at TAFB. He was just a radar engineer, but I find it hilarious that your backdrop with all the guitars and Beatles memorabilia, looks identical to my dads “man cave”, if you will, and I wonder why the culture is so familiar amongst aviators? Lol

[@dgax65]

I love Hey Joe's photography. His photos were incredible and had a great style. You could flip through a copy of The Hook and immediately pick out his images. Hey Joe, Lites Leenhouts and CJ Heatley really defined naval aviation photography for that generation.

[@opinionator3884]

This brought up fond memories of my dad, a retired AE1. His last assignment was VF-121, and they were trading navy leather flight jackets for tie-down chains for the F-4s in the squadron with the USAF in SoCal during the late 70s tight budget years. When he passed, I only wanted his leather navy flight jacket (the same that Hey Joe is wearing) with the Marine One patch, the Apollo patch (he trained their helicopter aircrews at NAS Imperial Beach), the VAW-111, and VF-121 patches.

[@mpetry912]

this looks like an interesting one ! Wearing my old CWU-45P while watching. Still have Adm Boorda's orders about "off post wearing of flight equipment" in the pocket! I read "Punk's War" back in the late 90s when it came out and it was an enjoyable read. Might catch the other 2 volumes as well. thanks Ward and happy holidays

[@WardCarroll]

Thanks, Mark!

[@C40navyaircrewman]

I still have my CWU-45 (winter) and CWU-36 (summer) nomex jackets. The Navy stopped issuing those right before I left and shifted to a gore tex version which while water resistant, was not a good looking jacket. In my humble opinion, it made you look like Gumby when you wore it. Thus why I held on to the old ones. They still required us to have a service record entry when we requested and were issued a G-1. A one and done issue. Many pilots and aircrew would pick up G-1’s in Osan, Korea that had been manufactured with a modification so you could put your hands in the pockets from the side. Those were quite popular and were usually undetectable as different until you saw someone shove their cold hands in the pockets. They really cracked down on the patch work on the jackets right around (ironically) the Centennial of Naval Aviation in 2011. The flight suits and jackets were no longer considered just organizational clothing but had instructions on wear added to the uniform regulations (everyone wore black T-shirts, etc.) No more ‘Winnebago’ jackets at that point. I still kept mine. Sadly a fair amount of that era of esprit de corps has been lost when the Navy during the radical period of Task Force Uniform made those changes including unceremoniously getting rid of the Aviation Working Greens uniform at the end of 2010 (replacing it with ironically the NWU Type 1 - now obsolete). Maybe someone will bring back some of that heritage in the future. Great episode! I’m a history nerd so I eat this stuff up. Thanks for the recommendation about Hey Joe’s book. I just found a copy and look forward to reading it.

[@jhollie8196]

Para Loft guys were a great contact to make. On a carrier. As a Marine assigned to the MarDet, we had that hookup. Made great libo bags and they last for a long time.

[@leeadams5941]

That was interesting, never knew the background of our flight jackets. In my closet somewhere is a goatskin leather one but I have to say that most KC130 guys much preferred the lightweight nomax one to wear most of the time. Yes, the Marines had very specific places and patches they could wear. I still wear my lightweight nomax one but now it has all the units I was assigned to patches on it. Kind of a history board. I was issued a brand new set when I checked aboard NFDS and have no idea where that stuff went. Yes, the leather one looked cool but I found it to heavy for normal wear. The gun pocket was cool though.

[@albionbowers9391]

Dear Ward, excellent piece on the flight jackets. Now I understand the difference between the ma1 and the wep jackets! How about a piece on helmets? What’s up in the progression from the HGU-26 to the HGU-33 to the HGU-55? I’ve got a vintage HGU-26 I use. I was a NASA research guy on the NASA F-18 HARV. I was the thrust vector modeling guy, translating the wind tunnel data to figure out the metal-to-plume ratio so we knew how much turning we got. I was good friends with the pilots, all of us engineers spent a lot of time with them, trying to give them the aircraft response they wanted. My MA1 still wears its HARV patches proudly…

[@johnyoung5820]

Contrary to what Hey Joe said, we bomber crewdogs wore our A-2s in the cockpit, and I'm pretty sure AFR 35-10 didn't say we couldn't. I think the only time I wore my winter-weight nomex jacket was when we were flying out of Alaska for two months during an exercise (that, and the godforsaken nomex thermal underwear that I only wore if I had a checkride in the winter months, as required by reg). Thing about the original Cooper A-2s is that they ran pretty snug. My wife got me a Cooper A-2 straight from Cooper as a gift when I finished flight school and sized it according to my uniform size--48R. It was so snug I couldn't move my arms. Maybe Cooper started cutting corners, but the zipper was a bit rough and the cloth lining seemed a little coarse. Imagine my surprise when I got my Air Force-issued A-2 (in a 52R this time). Fit perfectly in the shoulders, although a bit baggy at the waist--"52 frumpy" as my nav said--and it had a much nicer silky smooth liner with inner pocket, and the zipper glides effortlessly. All the guys in the squadron were asking me where I got it made. Nicest thing Uncle Sam ever gave me.

[@JustaPilot1]

I left the regular Navy in 1975. I did a stint in the reserves in the mid-80s. To this day I wear an issue G-1 and flight gloves. I'm a private pilot and wear it every time I fly in cold weather.

[@paulmiyashiro7791]

Great video and it inspired me to get the G-1 out of the closet that my dad gave me. In the mid-60’s our next door neighbor was an officer on a carrier and he was also flight qualified and gave my dad a new G-1. After watching this video I did some research online and determined that it is a 1964 contract Ralph Edwards Sportswear contract - goatskin with mouton collar… I also bought Hey Joe’s book and I’m looking forward to reading it. Thanks for the interesting bit of history!

[@tristan3448]

I'm currently serving the Marines as a flight equipment tech. (the equivalent of a PR) and the green Nomex jackets are VERY popular especially with the maintenance marines/enlisted. Its turned into a sign of "seniority" if you have one.

[@TJRohyans]

I'm a USAF Vet, former B-52H and B-2A Crew Chief (Aircraft Mechanic) and all of our Pilots wore the leather A-2 jackets. But the bomber cockpits/cabins are a little more spacious than the fighters.

[@frankmiller95]

Did your pilot(s) keep a cowboy hat in the safe, like Major TJ Kong , just in case you got the "go code?"

[@stinger4583]

Thanks, guys. Loved the show. I remember "Lights" when I was in VA-46 '85-'89. Merry Christmas to all hands. BZ

[@frankducett9]

While stationed at Plattsburgh Air Force Base ( SAC )in the early 1970s, we proudly displayed a beautiful B-47 at the front gate. Somebody placed a "Fly Navy" sticker on the nose. Where were you in January 1973? Confess now.

[@thomaswhalen3562]

Approach was a key part of our life in aviation. You guys dd a great job making it a solid magizine. Brownshoes in Action was something we always waited for. Our rule of thumb - Don't do anything that Grampa Pettibone would write about.

[@harryfaber]

Being from this side of the pond, I had never heard of PS Pettibone, (so I Googled him) I wonder if he ever flew with Pilot Officer Prune?

[@susanedge9392]

Working civilian job one summer on a Naval Air Station early Reagan years, I remember the buzz about change in dress codes, facial hair regs, fitness standards, etc. But the announcement that brought the most enthusiasm was a notice stating SECNAV was visiting (John Lehman). "Feel free to wear flight skins. SECNAV will be in his."

[@midnightchaser9453]

was waiting for a video about flight jackets! a few years ago i came across a pretty nice sized collection of old tomcat squadron patches, which i believe are all authentic. ive been wanting to put some on a nomex flight jacket and display the rest but want to make sure everything is authentic as can be before i do it. this video helped answer a lot of my questions

[@steviechalmers1218]

Brilliant as ever Ward , great to see David Parsons in his ready room , awesome 👍

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

Buy the books! I've read a lot of books by people who wrote about their careers and Ward rates at the top. He seems to do many things well and writing is one of them. The 3rd book does not run out of steam, it may have some of the most interesting story lines out of the trilogy.

[@tfc850]

Thank you for getting great and informative guests.

[@thatguy7085]

I was a civilian flight officer (fixed wing and helicopter) … while in the Navy as an enlisted black shoe. I was Air and Surface warfare qualified… and certified the air traffic control systems for use in the National Airspace System at a Naval Air Station. My green flight jacket has velcro to change my rank and service throughout the week… from enlisted, to civilian, to Air Force Auxiliary.

[@forthwithtx5852]

I’m not an aviator, but when I was a USAF F-15 structures guy in the mid-80’s, I was so taken with the re-released A2 goatskin flight jacket that I bought one from the official vendor on the commercial market. It doesn’t fit me anymore, so I passed it to my son.

[@einard.helseth2534]

Great history-lesson Ward and Hey Joe!!

[@dennisjamesanderson1079]

As a PR my first command was VF 92 Silver Kings. One of my officers had that jacket along with the pants that went with it. I only seen it one time since we were at Miramar and the weather never ever got cold enough to wear the trousers.

[@ldfahrni]

I got a flight jacket in 1979. My buddies in VA-93 had a patch custom made for me when I logged my 100th day as Squadron Duty Officer - an SDO Centurion patch with a desk and a phone. Probably one of a kind . . . And I was a 1520 - Aviation maintenance. In my defense, I was at AOCS in P-cola and they lined us all up and gave us all flight jackets. Was I supposed to say no?

[@michaelchristensen6884]

Still have my leather G-1 in goat skin, my summer CWU-36 and winter CWU-45. None of them fit now, I think they shrunk some over the years. Served from 1990-2010. They started changing the material on some of the jackets when I was at aircrew school in early 1991. Most of the mediums were this new material, it was a lighter color brown. I wore a 48L so not many people my size so I think I got an older one. In the VR wing in the late 90's, they created an instruction on what the flight suit and flight jacket could have for patches. American Flag left sleeve, name tag on left breast, squadron patch on right breast, and a platform patch on the right sleeve.

[@jamesmccauley664]

OMG, I remember getting my first flight jacket. The day I got my flight orders as Avionic test I went to the Flight Equipment shop and got two flight-suits, my helmet, and and a leather flight jacket. I was so damn proud of that jacket, and had to take it to a seamstress to have a squadron patch sewn on. Semper Fi

[@thestardusters7640]

As a young "nugget" Stoof pilot in the 1960s, I also had a fabric summer flying jacket issued. These were as prized as the leather jacket.

[@moss8448]

The `41 A-2 will always be my favorite.

[@scottgibson109]

I’ve had Hell Bent for Leather for years. So nice to meet the Author.

[@RoaroftheTiger]

Unfortunately, Willis & Geiger are long out of business. As a matter of fact, I believe it was Fashion Week in NYC in 1994. They had a Close Out sale. NO G-1s to be had. But I bought a Vegetable Tanned Pebble Grain Goat Skin A-2. (Goat Skin examples were available after 1943. As the Navy shared Goat Skins, they had acquired - mostly Nigerian Goats)

[@rushintl1]

Loved this episode. I was a Navy photographer in the 80's and I traded a lot of photos for various supplies, but nothing more valuable to me than the flight jacket. I had all the squads I shot for on it, VF31, The Red Rippers, Sunday Punchers, etc... A few years ago while I was away on business, my Wife let some guy buy it at a garage sale. (Closest we've came to a divorce in 33 years) Oh, and the Jolly Roger F14...the same that took out the Japanese Zeros in Final Countdown. I wish they would do a "Revisionist History Movie" about a modern carrier that travels back in time.

[@andrewlopez7100]

Oh crap how could she do that! How much did she sell the jacket for?

[@frankmiller95]

There's a "Binkov's Battlegrounds" on that very subject, with a very well thought out analysis.

[@KutWrite]

Very fun & cool. I GAVE my G-1 jacket to Goodwill when I was living out of my car & had no room for any non-essentials. I figured I could just buy another one some day. Hah! Not so easy. TBH I had "outgrown" the jacket, too. My belly had, anyway. You never explained how Hey Joe got his callsign. Was it given in the Orient? Heh-heh.

[@RogerSanGabriel]

Sad story.

[@michaelmaston4702]

They took their sweet ass time getting to the flight jacket.

[@VincentVader]

I was a kid when Top Gun came out & I remember when the flight jacket became cool to the general public. I had one with the Tomcat patch & other patches associated with it.

[@michaelwalton1033]

I could sit in a room with these guys all day. While I was at NAS JAX 81-84 they changed the regs about patches, total two. Previous duty station and current which pissed every one off. Do you guys remember this?

[@markbauer1096]

Ah yes, the new SWO jacket, is very similar to the old AN-J-3 which was an attempt to standardize the leather jackets for the AAF and Navy before the Air Force went fabric in the latter stages of WWII. My dad had a B-15, and most fighter pilots in his group, because they were really warm, wore the fabric jackets, either the older B-10 or B-15. The B-15 went through A-D revisions and morphed into the MA-1 and it's incarnations. In WWII, what became the G-1, started out as the M-422, M-422A, then in Korea was some other designation with the final versions being the G-1. Major changes were really slight, with the pencil pocket going away and the waistband having a different style, plus variations on the collar mouton color.

[@heathertaylor4677]

Enlisted Aircrew were issued a Leather G-1 in 1989 when I went through NAC School in Pensacola.

[@MXP90DL]

The book Hell Bent for Leather was on Amazon in Hardcover for $55.+ used. FYI

[@Sreybk]

Sort of off topic but I live near MCAS Cherry Point and knew plenty of Marines. I guess to be more politically correct, especially after the Tailhook controversy, VMAQ-2 formerly "The Playboys" became the "Death Jesters" and the Playboy logo came off the Prowlers. Then they changed the insignia to a jester skull. However, the aviators always wore the Playboy patch on their flight suits. They may have even had them on their flight jackets, but I don't think they were permitted to wear them off base or anywhere else. A few of the EA-6Bs had tail insignia fashioned in the bunny shape.

[@00calvinlee00]

VMAQ-2 smartly fashioned the Charlie Yankee tail code into the Playboy Bunny. Smart way to bring the Bunny back.

[@markbergthold6181]

Did I see a bug crawling up the label on your green jacket? Cool video, great history.

[@andreperrault5393]

My father was a “mustang” as well. And he did wear his original G-1 leather jacket with a lot of patches until it “disappeared” mysteriously. His second, and last one, only had one unit patch, NAS South Weymouth. I have that one kept safe. I do not wear it because it has his name, rank, and Naval Aviator wings on the leather name patch. I remember his original had a VF-111 Sundowners patch with two F4F’s shooting down the sun sitting at the horizon. When I asked him about wearing the leather G-1 all the time, he said it became like a second skin, keeping him warm in the cold and cool in the heat. I hope his original is well taken care of where-ever it is. He flew Spads (attack & AEW), Willy Fudds, and Hummers, to name a few. I read every Approach and NANews I could get my hands on. Grampaw Pettibone, There I Was, and Anymouse.

[@JINN0211]

Pardon me if I missed it but in the intro you said that Hey Joe would tell us how he received his call sign.

[@henrycarlson7514]

So Wise , Thank You .

[@ag3ntx]

My second duty station was SUBRON 16 in Holy Loch (the first was CV-41) I was ordering supplies and noticed that for some reason I could order the CWU-36 Nomex flight jackets.. so I said...humph and ordered 60 of various sizes. Well eventually they showed up and I was the Comshaw king! Man, I was trading those things to everyone for everything my shop literally had everything you could possibly want on a ship. I even gave one to the Skipper and XO... well one day I get a nastygram from COMNAVAIRLANT saying.. the submarine tender was not a flight activity and that we needed to return the jackets.. well.. literally no one wanted to give those back.. I still had a few left so I thought I would say that they had been destroyed when the box "fell over the side" and these were the only ones that were "salvaged". So I soaked the remaining ones in seawater put em in a dryer, boxed em up, and sent em back.. never heard anything back after that.... ahh the things we used to get away with.. lol

[@fredkruse9444]

LOL, Stan.

[@dananichols1816]

Good on ya, Nats, for working the system legit and taking care of daily life in your bailiwick!!! The closer I got to retiring as an E-8, in my mx/aircrew flight equip world, the more pissed I got at how enormous and casual the acquisition & "disposal" (at least in the AF) money-grinder had evolved. Especially with my (Alaska Air Guard) 176 WG supporting five different weapon systems (C-130s, HC-130s, HH-60Gs, C-17s, and PJs/Guardian Angels -- not including the sixth, Air Defense Sq., who all hid underground anyway -- we had diverse, constantly-changing equipment TO&E and a horrifying, sometimes dangerous fur-ball of out-dated hard-copy T.O.s & pubs to try to stay ahead of... no goddamn way, folks, and we were losing ground in competence & safety, fast. Not 'too many irons in the fire,' but too many critical guidance pubs that were obsolete before we even got them... or, frequently, the very, "new" critical flight/system gear and applications that they were supposed to control were being fought over by proprietary dickheads within the different commands. Pretty soon, we end-user shop folks were sitting on tons of gear, expected to use "good stewardship" to manage reality within our little budget, and "let the spice flow" to keep everybody fairly part of the motivational-salvage inventory of useful goods, don'tcha know. Note: After being out of the mil for 16 years, back in just after 9/11, Dana never signed-up with ad hoc, "good fiscal stewardship" skills in his old-school ass ... the LAST troop you'd want in your unit's accounts was me. Same goes with turning me loose on all of that Buck Rogers, whiz-bang computer bullshit; the wonderfully bright kids in my shop knew to just take the iPad out of my flailing hands and find the goddamn page that had just disappeared from in front of me. (I DID know what carbon-paper was, though, by God. And IBM cards. And C-rats. Steel helmet, too... m-fer... rant, rave.) Like you said, after drawing and dispersing your jackets, which you did without malice, while keeping daily business as it has been for millennia in any military, along come the bean-counters to call you on it and demand return. Your solution was spot-on! The newer AF/DoD disposal/return system I found was almost scary in its complexity and just flat not worth my (small potatoes) time to appease! The local JBER (EDF/Ft. Rich) facility wanted an appt., you went through two cipher gates, and I never had my several chits properly coded... just to try to return shit that nobody wanted back anyway. I happily spent my waning SNCO years amassing and giving away as much useful gear to anybody and any back-shop who could use and appreciate it. Not asking permission and just getting things done my way was good medicine. When one of the EDF active-duty F-15 shops closed, I loaded up a ton of their "just get it out of here!" (fighter) short-waist flight jackets and winter gear, and took it back to my ANG base -130 & helo crew chiefs to give out; those poor bastards were in the wx all day, and could use it. That was a good day, and I never kept track of 'who owed who what fuckin' favors...,' like some guys with whom I was actually ashamed to have to work with at my end. Finally, same went for "Acquisition-by-Dana:' cell phones and a little free-lance gumption to call folks direct sure cuts a LOT of bureaucratic bullshit. Part of my shop's oversight was maintaining the new/pretty damn awesome Aqualung SEA MK Lvl2 egress air bottles, for our helo crews -- requiring strict compliance with valve inspection and overhaul for the two-stage regulators. (Buddy, my hats off to the navy for being behind the no-bullshit, clear & concise tech guidance/graphics, which came with the bottles' overhaul tool kits! My dear, old mentor, a navy diver & nuke engineering LPO from the USS Aspro, just smiled when I lauded that gear's background and explicit safety notes... it wasn't buried under chapters of boilerplate, fuck-you admonishments and shitty, unhelpful graphics. I needed six overhaul kits (small envelopes, of about seven o-rings and seals, to assure that 3,000# of air didn't just by-pass the overdue regulator head and dump into my helo crew's lungs all in one gulp.) AF supply told me "two months...," to get the kits from the east coast vendor, back to McClellan AFB/DLA/wherever, then send them up to Anchorage. (Oh, yeah... well I'll torpedo this smug machine before the jerk-offs knew I was ever aboard.) I got the 1-800# from the kit label, used my cell to call the bottle's factory POC for the contract, and went right to Rick H. -- in the office of the factory floor (score...!). I politely told him the prob -- he chuckled and already had "yeah... two months out..." on his lips -- and I asked if I could just buy the kits and have him mail them to me(?). He was a little taken aback, but bless the man for putting the phone down, walking out and returning in two minutes(!) with six -- agreeing with my concerns & one-off request. $103 from my own credit card was/IS still one of the best, cathartic purchases I've ever made; and, three (3) days later, the little box plopped into the mailbox at my home. Kits to shop, good bottles into the vests, and this banged-up old Senior was a happy dog. (Kinda beside the point in worrying about individual helo crew bottle ownership ingtegrity... THOSE sinister folks are constantly pilfering shit from each other's vests and lockers... No end of it. Ever. (BTW, USPS mail is still one of the finest services in the world, kids... just ask anybody in ANY other country.) I loved the wide-eyed "...but, you can't DO that!..." shit I got, whenever I dropped my Supply Solutions By Dana story into the right moment, especially around some of my drone co-workers who just would never call those rep numbers, right there in front of them, and simply say hello to knowledgeable people. I think you're right, Nats... them days may be gone -- but thank you kindly for reaffirming that it was a good thing.

[@RogerSanGabriel]

Great story I want one.

[@tombriggman2875]

I started flying as a Naval Aircrewman in teh early 80's in VP66. As soon as I received my wings, I bought a real leather flight jacket; everyone wanted to know where I got it. By teh mid 80;s, I received my issue leather jacket. The 90's had me leaving teh Navy Reserve for the Air Force Reserve(high year tenure) where I became a C130 loadmaster and received another leather flight jacket. The navy issue jacket is superior in my opinion.

[@00calvinlee00]

You were at NAS Willow Grove! Miss the base and more importantly the people. I am guessing you were with the 913th as well? Was lucky to fly with them a few times

[@tombriggman2875]

@@00calvinlee00 Yes former VP 66 and 327AS NASWG 1982-2004

[@thomashelm6931]

I was a C141 loadmaster in the 1970s.. The only thing that I regret about the '80s, is, not being issued the leather A2. And not keeping my original Nomex jacket that had thousands of hours in it.

[@ilejovcevski79]

Thanks for the videos mate, and for bringing Hey Joe to the mix. Your channel is a true treasure for aviation enthusiasts around the world, keep up the good work!

[@EricCoop]

We need to talk about the SWO Jacket (which I proudly own). In the 1950s and 1960s, there was a leather Destroyerman's Jacket. In 2018, SURFOR decided to bring it back. So now we have a SWO Jacket. Unlike the Flight Jacket, we can actually wear ours on the ship.

[@jimkillen1065]

Glad i ran onto this channel..i not a pilot and i wanted to buy a leather flight jacket for a long time . I read about the different leather and wanted to get a well made jacket ..i was not wanted one with all the patches because i did not earn them . I dont mind spending a few dollars on what i want ..i just dont want crap and perfer American made ..Thanks for the video

[@danceswithbadgers534]

What the heck was the bug that snuck across the jacket at 28:48 ?

[@kennethatkins2746]

It was a stink bug.

[@viksaini]

Stinkbugs all over Maryland. A gift from China😁

[@lorin-ie7vx]

Heard the comment about the CO of the Ponce wearing a leather flight jacket. Their have been pre CV CO's getting their deep draft commands on LPDs. For example after her XO tour, Captain Bauernschmidt on 5 August 2019, assumed command of the amphibious transport dock USS San Diego. On 19 August 2021, Bauernschmidt became the commanding officer of USS Abraham Lincoln.

[@astrophysicistguy]

The AF went through the same thing .. I arrived at test pilot school at the time when the AF instituted the new policy authorizing all rated officers and aircrew on flying status the new leather flight jackets.. all we cared about was when we could get our leather 'bomber jackets'. You couldn't fly with them but they were a great additional for when you had to wears 'blues' and you needed a jacket ...

[@TheMilwaukieDan]

1966-1969 Army CH47 Chinook FE. Phu Loi. Black Cats. I still have my green Nomex flight jacked with patches. Definitely a prized possession. Grand sons love it as welll.

[@geocip1]

Wow Tomcats and Marshall amps! I don't have any experience with the Tomcat but I do know my way around Marshall amps. Played with 3 stacks in the 80's

[@tomvogt5988]

Hey Mooch, I think that stink bug crawling across the label in your jacket you held up is close enough for a gun shot

[@williamroeder3274]

@29:00 You "wear that jacket a lot?"

[@EricCoop]

@39:50, Hey Joe has a point. VADM Brown made the decision to give os SWO Jackets for the same reason the Air Force gave flight jackets back in the 80s. To make our community cool again.

[@JorisvanBoven]

Another great video, MOOCH and HEY JOE. Question for MOOCH: can you do an interview with Cheap Trick members one day? You telling about Tomcats while Bun E Carlos is performing the "Ain't that a shame" drum intro??

[@Aircrewinterview]

Really interesting interview. Nice work chaps.

[@joevirnig8057]

I was a reservist '85-'93. When I was in SK (Storekeeper) A-School in Meridian, up the road from NAS Meridian, the instructors warned us about ordering extra flight jackets to use as bargaining chips. They told stories about how SKs who did, and DKs (Distribution Clerks) who would cut extra checks would end up in the brig.

[@tommierios6518]

Thanks for the information. Flight jackets are very cool.

[@jamescherney5874]

When I went through Navy pilot training in 1976 I was issued 1 leather jacket and one A2 nomex jacket. I rarely wore the leather jacket because they got stolen very often. Kept it my closet for 20 years and it's still like new and use it for motorcycle riding. Didn' t realize the genuine goatskin one like mine is so valuable.

[@whitephoenix4230]

Ward, what was the first Fighter aircraft you fell in love with? Because of Top Gun growing up as a kid, I can definitely tell you without a doubt that your old bird the Tomcat is mine. Some planes have come close since then, but the good old F-14 still makes my heart race with excitement whenever I see it fly.

[@WardCarroll]

My dad’s A-4 followed by the F-4.

[@av8bvma513]

@@WardCarroll Hey, I go back some, to the Vampire!

[@jt200drivr]

Great episode Ward! It may have been lost in the discussion, but how did Hey Joe get his callsign? Maybe for the next episode where he is guest. Thanks as always for the great content!

[@pe2950]

Apparently Dave spent a lot of time when deployed, dealing with suppliers/manufacturers to get shirts and other "tour memorabilia" made. When in asia a round eye gets called "Hey Joe!" as a greeting... Guessing the name stuck!

[@camarocarl7130]

@@pe2950 Same in the Med BTW. At Fleet Landing the vendors were named "Hey Joes" because they constantly yelled "HEY JOE" at sailors to buy their products.

[@michaeldehart648]

Thank you, gentlemen!

[@dmutant2635]

I still have Dave's book on Navy patches....good stuff.

[@richhoffman3218]

Mooch, Nice educational banter between you and Hey Joe. Did you also notice the stowaway at minute 28:48?

[@camarocarl7130]

Don't forget Naval Air Crewman and Flight Surgeons wear the G-1 also.