Warhammer 40k: KILL TEAM (2021) - MOROCH - Mission 1

Kris and I have painted up the two new teams from the MOROCH two-player Battle Box to check out the nine new missions available. I'm piloting the Ultramarines Phobos Team while Kris is taking to the field with the Traitor Guard BLOODED.
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[@robertviscomi8199]

More kill team please. Very enjoyable watches

[@problemdog]

12:30 multi spectrum array is for obscurement, not cover

[@josephgarcia9076]

Every time he said You don't get cover cause you're not 2 to 4 inches from the terrain I gasped lol

[@Kiratze]

One of those games where it was over before it began. That terrain layout + Blooded going Attacker = Phobos shooting fish in a barrel. Hope the next games are a bit more dynamic!

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

Having a vantage point in deployment simply shouldn't happen.

[@Locnoriano]

It's a Narrative Mission...

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

Doesn't stop it from being poorly designed.

[@samjsnz]

Also, really bad orders were given out. Those walls are heavy so should have started most the team in conceal (Vantage only negates light cover) The blooded could have easily hidden the plasma gunner behind the solid section with an engage order and a blooded token, moved out and overcharged the guy on the vantage, if he couldn't have hidden could have started conceal and used infiltrate to switch order. Also I'm pretty sure the incursors don't ignore cover they increase the distance needed for obscuring from 1 to 2 circles (Note those walls have a rule stating they don't obscure if the firing model is higher than the highest part of the wall)

[@senti5468]

@@samjsnz Yeah there was no reason anyone from the Blooded team got shot in the first turn.

[@robharris5317]

Great commentary videos guys, love this new kill team box, the phobos marines and traitor guardsmen are my favourite factions hands down!!, I really like the terrain in the box set too. This game the marines had the luck and a perfect defence, however I,m sure the traitor guard will avenge their loss in no time at all!!!

[@scelonferdi]

Could it be that you guys mixed up visibility, cover and obcured here? Those are separate things and not exactly straight forward. Visibility ISN'T the same as line of sight. It's just the question if your model can physically see something of the enemy model. Obscuring is when you can see an enemy, but they are partially covered by obscuring terrain (usually heavy). Then you don't have line of sight (aren't allowed to shoot them) if they are the minimum distance away from it. Also partially covered models with a conceal orders are visibile but DON'T have LoS, unless it's light cover and the shooter is on a vantage point. Cover is more or less independent of all of this. So the Incursor marksaman DOESN'T negate the auto sucess from cover.

[@samjsnz]

Yeah. That terrain layout is a little more balanced than the game suggested as the attacker could start in conceal and be protected behind the wall as it’s heavy. I would have given the first blooded token to the plasma to get an auto hit, even tried to set up another guy to sacrifice when he got shot back (can’t remember the strat name)

[@scelonferdi]

@@samjsnz Yeah, a concealed advance towards the objectives with the entire blooded team first turning point could've caused serious headache for Ash.

[@samjsnz]

@@scelonferdi They could have passed with a few of the blooded just hiding forcing the marines to burn their activations first with no targets. At least that way you would only be taking overwatch and not double tapping bolters

[@araistel1980]

Ash more Kill Team please

[@CaravanCzar]

I enjoyed the video, but have nothing of value to say, so I am just commenting to feed the algorithm.

[@andyleeds4]

Ahh the GW speciality of 'feels bad' moments. Sorry no cover and I fire twice. Guardsman says to Marine, though you can see thru my cover does that mean your bolt round magically passes thru a foot of steel as if its not there now. Yup

[@Dracodomin]

Well lore-wise, they aren't shooting through the steel, they can just see the target through it using the advanced auspex, so any time any body part barely peeks out, they can take a shot. However, They negate obscuring within 4 inches, not cover, so anything in conceal behind heavy should not have been shot at anyway.

[@hugheja89]

I think you might have mixed up determining initiate at the start there. Looks like he went recon and you went infiltrate. Infiltrate beats recon so you should have decided? The strategic ploy you used for an extra scouting action doesn’t change who gets initiative also.

[@Tyresiax]

Everyone blaming GW, the game, the terrain, the balance, whereas it's all about bad choices from Kris and some mistakes about special rules. It's a winnable mission for the Blooded team.

[@dreadpiratedan]

so did the chaos player misunderstand something fundamental about the game? i've not played any kill team but it seemed like every time he moved a character up, it got casually deleted by the first person to shoot at it? :/

[@samjsnz]

Yes orders. His models should have started in conceal the wall they started behind was heavy so the vantage point doesn’t get to count the conceal as engaged to shoot. I see this a lot with new people, I made the same mistake and learnt my lesson hard, you want to dictate on your own terms when you want to risk your key assets.

[@MrEzuma]

Absolutely, letting his men be shot was a typical beginner mistake that will punish even very durable teams. He could have put conceal orders on his men instead of engage, and paid the price

[@devonaikins9065]

Oof. Giving up the Defense was a rough choice. Even if Kris didn't have a super sniper to put on that tower, denying Ash the position would have been a clutch move. Having no way to avoid just getting rocked by wall hack double bolters was brutal. And even if he had made it to the tower it isn't like he could have assaulted up it. Was really hoping Chaos would pull out a hero move win.

[@johnkidby7948]

This is one of the big reasons I prefer Stargrave. Guard (traitor or otherwise) have a SERIOUSLY tough time fighting Marines in Kill Team, which is very thematic but not particularly fun. Really your only chance is to try to use your numerical advantage to scramble for VPs before you get tabled. If you try fighting head-on you're pretty much doomed from the start.

[@samjsnz]

Totally disagree, if anything marines have a hard time against Guard. Traitor team can take 4 krak grenades a plasma gun + pistol and a melta. The only reason guard got smashed in this batrep was bad play.

[@Dracodomin]

@@samjsnz Yep yep. Marines are definitely more forgiving, but a really good player piloting both would leave the marine player with the uphill battle. Can't say I blame them though. They play way too many games to be top of class at Kill Team.

[@tharkwarrior]

I am learning Killteam. Fun to see your play thrus.

[@daniellogue8365]

Great to see you running through new KT scenarios :) I'm kinda sad all SM forces got the extra model, to me feels like they are less elite now. I understand it was an easy balance change to just add the extra model. but I would have liked to have them each get +5 HP or something instead and keep the 2:1 ratio against 10 model teams

[@blackleagionair]

nice job love watching your videos

[@Black_Blow_Fly]

YEA BOI !! 🫥😁🫠

[@GoochiFPV]

Would even turning that antenna around make it fairer? So you dont have cover from vantage? Im working through octarius and have a bunch of changes to the missions so they make more sense to me.

[@oathr1950]

Nice vid! What shade finish do you use on your space marines to make them super shiny glossy? That's how I want mine to look please help

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

It’s Gloss Black primer with Greenstuff World Cobalt Blue airbrushed over it. :)

[@oathr1950]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames I dont have an airbrush :( but I'll just get the gloss black primer and see if that works ,thanks bro!!

[@Hanibaltherogue]

Live your vids, specially the KT ones. Bit this one was a little one sided and for that kinda boring 😅

[@Ulfhednir9]

Man that sucked for the traitor guard player. 1 sided games are no fun. Mad respect for him staying to the bitter end. I hope to see them again and actually gets a chance to do anything

[@AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm confused about selecting a Kill Team... I thought a Space Marine KT was made up of one fire team, so either Incursors or Infiltrators, not both together? Or has that changed for the newest rules?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

The Phobos kill team is all the models in that armour type now, Reavers, Incursors and Infiltratore

[@PMMagro]

HELL YES

[@MrBombphoon]

Would it have killed GW to throw some scatter terrain in this box? One sprue of crates would make this board playable.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

I think it would have helped a ton. Or the container/crate frame.

[@BlasterCA2000]

Do you guys share the rulebook, talk about it, review &/or discuss, advise on what's what? 'Cause it often seems as if the 'Worthy Opponent' is initially just led to the slaughter. It'd make for better games if there's some back & forth on the rules, even some quick, no frills, down & dirty type practice games. I know that 'I did NOT know thzt!' look & feeling. It's not good.

[@andrewcook3983]

I feel sorry for Kris, he didn't seem to be enjoying himself in that game... It might have worked better for him if he was the defender, but being able to change orders for each team member - OOF! Think that might get nerfed via an FAQ.

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

This was a bad mission. You should never have a vantage point in a deployment zone.

[@katarhall3047]

Ugh that didn't turn out well, 7-15 and the Traitor just got squashed. Hopefully that gets tried again, and we can see if the Guard are even balanced at all.

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

Bad mission. There shouldn't be a vantage point in a deployment zone.

[@katarhall3047]

@@odeegrotsniffer4166 I'm down for a rematch, this really didn't show the Guard in a good light, complete opposite actually.

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

The mission is just poorly designed. Having a vantage in the deployment zone is really dumb

[@edwindrood2816]

Well, that was bad.

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

It was the mission. Having a vantage point in a deployment zone is really dumb. A good mission doesn't have this

[@Tyresiax]

@@odeegrotsniffer4166 Yes but no, Victory conditions are not so hard for the Attacker, so it's pretty balanced. The Blooder player just made terrible choices. Also, there was many confusions about lines of sight, cover, etc. Not even mentioning the bad luck with the dice.

[@raedkhalil6937]

I'm very confused by the vantage point. Where does it say an operative on a vantage point has to activate first? Was it a special rule for this mission? Edit: ok, I'm an idiot. It's right there in the mission description early in the video. My bad.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

That’s okay! It’s a pretty drastic rule in a pretty asymmetrical mission!

[@gaborkiss3654]

Guys, if you disappointed by that game, worry not: glass half dead bring valuable content for kill team. Ash, i love your content, but this kind of terrain setup brings everything except joy and entertainment.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

I mean, we’re working through the matched play scenarios in the book in order so the terrain isn’t by choice lol

[@tims5298]

No he doesn't and he is so boring

[@odeegrotsniffer4166]

There seems to be one really imbalanced mission per book.

[@hugheja89]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames well these are the more narrative spec ops missions not matched play right? The more balanced matched play missions are in the core book and you set up the terrain yourself. But there’s some good layouts from warhammer world. It’s not clear but the missions in these books aren’t necessarily meant for balanced matches play unless it’s different for moroch. But generally I’d say stick to those core ones if you want balance, this layout doesn’t really look all that great.

[@TheJankmaster]

Space marines are pretty OP.

[@walstafa]

I was interested in how GW were going to make a guardsman-level melee team viable and between this and other playthroughs it looks like they just haven't bothered. Shame because the models are cool. I'm kinda happy they've made Phobos decent though, I was worried that KT was going to be all about the 10-man teams for a while there.

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

I’m going to build them out too, with the bits from Blackstone to pad out the group with more models. I think they’ve got legs, just really lean on the Ogryn/Corpsman combo and need momentum and early kills to get going

[@Floydos85]

I think KT is more suitable for "elite" teams than "hordes"... The ability of Marines to shoot twice is insane, especially with 3 APL. "Regular" humans have lower HP, worse saves, lower APL, and can shoot "only" once. Especially Imperial Guardsmen or even this Traitor ones should have the option/order to sacrifice movement of any type to be able to shoot twice (with las-weapons). Yes, Traitor Guardsmen have the option to use more than 2 grenades. But that is basically their only "feature".

[@andeejaym]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames and maybe swap out that flamer for a grenade launcher?

[@GuerrillaMiniatureGames]

Worth noting that the Guard team can effectively fire 12 times and the Phobos team can fire 6 UNLESS they Ploy to do otherwise. Action economy across the teams is 24 on the Guard and 18 on the Marines. I understand the instinct to feel the guard are badly matched but I’d say the scenario and composition may have been the biggest factor here. I would definitely have chosen to defend in Kris’ shoes.

[@BlasterCA2000]

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames Fact is, for an IG Squad [Traitor or otherwise] they are Elite. It's not just 10x Lasguns & 6+ 'Emperor Protects!* Saves. Throw in a Commissar & an Ogryn & you're talkin Last Chancers, Gaunts Ghosts territory! Traitor Commander made a Strategic mistake & a Phobos Special Rule was flub'd. Even at that, Kris was in it thru 'Turning Point' 3! Blaster was here... & I'd have done a Karate Kid/Mr. Miyagi, 'Best Defense; No Be There'- & flanked, Flanked, FLANKED!