Warhammer the Old World Grumbles with the BARD

Warhammer the Old World is getting very exciting!
We've seen many models, art, and heard about the rules. But yet, anxieties abound! An in-depth long-winded grumble is required. And to do so I am joined by the legendary BARD bit.ly/BardicBroadcasts
#WarhammerTOW
#Warhammer
#Bretonnia
#GamesWorkshop
#theoldworld
#oldhammer
#bardicbroadcasts
#thebard

[@nengelen]

A masterclass in overcomplicating sentences for gravitas, gentlemen. Cheers! 🍻

[@allumcharles]

Watching the Bard just listen is better than listening to most people talk.

[@ndalum75]

I'm only halfway through this video, but the level of conversation: on styles of game systems, on how the lore fits together with the feel of the game, this is at such level beyond your average tabletop podcasters which discuss: "what's strong on the tabletop this week, what are the new releases, what's the regurgitated lore from the novel I read yesterday". You two truly understand how to get to the heart of a system, the heart of the lore, what the system is aiming at rather then getting bogged down in minutiae. Superb discussion, many kudos.

[@DrBlaxill]

Thanks. I think a long view historical perspective helps here- the past casts a long shadow with this very old game and lore.

[@user-ko3tv7jl2r]

Yes, two silverbacks of gaming going at it. Very enjoyable.

[@Brodraugen]

The perfect video doesn't exi...... Luke and THE BARD???!!!

[@kerel995]

❤

[@itsallfunandgames723]

I really loved it when the Bard noted how the "when are they going to move the story forward?" attitude caused people to totally lose the plot, so to speak, when it came to what these settings offer. The setting is supposed to set YOU off on a creative adventure, but for some reason people came to think it all existed so some paperback writer could take a hack work job and crank out endless terrible novels considered totally unreadable by people who aren't in love with the IP. It turns the franchise into an action soap opera. And it also suggests that maybe games like Warhammer had gotten too far from their historical wargaming roots and were now too close to people posting on the internet who really only knew their products through video games. But I also feel like the nuanced, intelligent Warhammer Fantasy setting has been getting downgraded basically since 5th edition. When you consider the politically complex (yet understandable) Empire presented in the intro to Shadows Over Bogenhafen, and then also the more epic and fairy-tale like 4th edition army books for the Undead and Skaven, it felt like late 90s GW began to see that sort of intelligence in their fluff as a liability. As if the army scale wargame side had to be more bombastic, and to do that, it had to get dumber. I never understood that. And to this day I wonder what Warhammer might look like if in 5th edition instead of having Nigel Stillman do that silly Arthurian take on Bretonnia that totally reimagined it, if they had teamed Bill King up with Andy Chambers or Jervis Johnson again, and had him thread the needle of decadent France with Arthurian roots, set firmly in this stunted Renaissance fantasy world. How different a Warhammer would that company have built over the decades?

[@Xomitsious]

Well said!!! Agree on everything.

[@sturmhalo]

The internet is full of people who know "The Lore" inside and out and who demand more "Lore" and for the story to continuously advance. They've never read a rulebook, played a game or bought a model, nevermind put paint to one. There was a time when lore was little more than a paragraph thrown together by a figure designer in a matter of minutes to go on the back of a box or in an advert.

[@SloveneAnon]

Absolutely agree. It's no secret that for WFB 4/5e GW jettisoned the old 80s WFRP 1e Imperial structure of dozens of elector counts which were mainly evil, foppish, too young, too old, or horror of horrors, women (cooties-havers) to replace them with a few stock heroic male characters that would appeal most to 12yo boys.

[@DrBlaxill]

That's a superb comment. For me, an obvious thing that has been removed from Old World lore since the late '90s is internal politics. Each race's conflict is with the other factions it might meet on the battle field- rather than within itself. Each race generally has either a semi omnipotent ruler (Like Orion) or if not that, an all-time historical great like Karl Franz or Louen Leoncoeur- and as a consequence are internally very stable due to uncontested leadership. But in WFRP Enemy Within (and indeed in the Genevieve books) Karl Franz is a much weaker figure and his reign much more unstable. The Skaven Lords of Decay in 4th ed (while dominant) were also subject to potential challenge and politics had some representation through the world of assassins. The High Elves had some of this in 6th ed with their 'intrigue at court' rule where your army might end up being led by a figure who was a worse general due to him or her out-politicking rivals- but there wasn't much of that. I think the focus on great heroes is just inherently quite dull- it focusses the narrative around named hyper-heroic 2D personages, and turns the lore into an action-drama rather than a nuanced background setting.

[@Xomitsious]

​@@DrBlaxillThat was an unfortunate consequence that came with the changing of the guard, with the beginning of 6th edition. Alessio, Tuomas and Gav did an excellent job with the rules, but when it came to the lore, they kind of messed it up. The Warhammer world became a world of nations, rather than a world of city states. Gone were the stories of old deranged necromancers raising a few skeletons from the graveyard and attacking a village. Now we had the armies of the Von Carsteins, rulers of Sylvania leading invasions into the realms of men. And while, to some extent, Empire and Brettonia make sense to have an overall leader (though they lose some character), they expanded that trend to races like Orcs, Ogres and Chaos. Now, armies of Chaos always came from the north, most obeying Archaon, Orcs came from the Badlands and Ogres, a race that used to fight for anyone, came from the mountains of Mourn and had a king in Greasus. As a result, players' imagination got limited. A world full of unknown lands and dangers, got filled with nations, with borders and leaders. The designers that took over from 6th onwards knew Warhammer as a wargame setting, and tidied it up accordingly. Here's hoping the new guys give the Old World some of its spice back.

[@Mark-nh2hs]

The Bard is the sort of person you could happily listen too and chat with for hours and have a great time

[@mondoprime]

Bard is such a talented chap. Utterly entertaining, funny, bright as a button and full of interesting insight. I have zero interest in warhammer but I could listen to this guy for hours.

[@davedogge2280]

OMG two of my favourite Warhammer and fantasy enthusiasts and commentators, together ? what a joy to behold ! I even watch the Bard on Twitch doing his videogaming. I never expected to see this in my lifetime.

[@northernexile]

Wow.

[@TomMasonSculptor]

What fantastic commentary. Two of your points that resonated most with me are: 1. Having a game that allows you to form your own hero. I loved having my own general or captain and playing out the feats he accomplished. So much more interesting than playing historical chess with names characters all the time. 2. The timeline narrative. The bard has it exactly right. There is this sense that these games are forcing you to watch a movie or read a book to move through a force fed story. I much prefer a rich setting where I can create stories within the world.

[@gstellar96]

In defense of the Ironbreakers and Iron Drakes they were apparently used as tunnel fighters against the likes of goblins skaven and undead whos main tactic in battle would be death by a thousand stabs so it would make sense for A your main fighters to be absolutely decked out in armor from head to toe and B to utilize something like flamethrowers seeing as how devastating that type of weapon can be used in small enclosed spaces. I personally really love the way they look especially the armored beards since it shoes that dwarves not only value their beards that an enclosed helm has to include their beards since it really shows that its almost like an arm or a leg to people like us and that they have the craftsmanship to achieve something like that for a mass of units. Were always told dwarves have excellent craftsmanship but never really shown anything that at least I think civilizations like humans and elves would be able to or have already achieved and I think the Ironbreakers give us a glimpse into tgat

[@BardicBroadcasts]

While I don't share it, that's a fine point of view.

[@Miscast]

YESSSS, this makes me so happy

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

Fantastic discussion guys! Great to see Warhammer discussed with genuinely intelligent, interesting fans

[@BotRetro]

Marvelous! I Iove listening to You two. I hope You consider a Second Chapter of the Grumbles in the future.

[@palwinderdhillon8242]

I find myself re watching this video once every couple of months.

[@Eggytoast87]

This is a very thoughtful discussion, but I feel - so far admittedly - there is reference to "GW" but not to the individuals making the game - Rob Alderman (an experienced indie games designer and manager before going to GW a few years ago) is the project design manager for the game, alongside MESBG and Blood Bowl. It's produced within the Specialist Design Studio (ie forge world, and Specialist games - heresy, Necromunda, legion Imperialis, Aeronautica, as well as the old world, middle earth and blood bowl), under the division management of Andy Hoare (who you'll remember from 2000s fantasy, as much as his work of recent years). It looks to be one of the biggest games from SDS, but probably one that releases like middle earth and heresy. This team is distinct from the "main" studio, which produces everything else, and which has that competitive onus - whereas for SDS, maybe it feels like - interestingly- blood bowl and middle earth are the most competitively conceived games of its stable, whereas the others much less so - with heresy rather blighted by both poor balance and poor rewards for playing not-competitively (even at narrative events). The specialist design studio also feels like a much smaller team overall. Apologies if you talk about this later, but I think some consideration of what SDS is is worth discussing always.

[@DrBlaxill]

You are on the money- we did not discuss the design team dimension, and as a result do present GW slightly simplistically as a monolith rather than multi-tiered. It's an important additional dimension for us to be aware of - thank you for highlighting it!

[@d6wounds]

The comments about Wildwood rangers and Irondrakes are my thoughts precisely. The unit and rules were made first and then the fluff was shoehorned in around it, rather than the all the other units where the idea/fluff came first and then rules second.

[@TheHobbyGrotto]

This was truly the Old World discussion we needed, great video! 🔥

[@mycaleb8]

36:00 THANK YOU SO MUCH. I've felt completely alone on this opinion for so long.

[@MikeKnell2884]

That intro was enough to earn a like. I am less than a minute in and I had enough of awesome for today. I don't have to watch the video now, but I will.

[@Pfuffn]

The Unmasking of the Green Knight is a essential part of the old Arthurian Legend. Not unmasking him was probably the best thing the makers of the Movie „The Green Knight“ could have done.

[@Ethnarches]

Wow, this is something I definitely wasn't expecting but I'm very excited to listen to!

[@MattDer-ff2us]

Excellent video gentlemen. Very in-depth and puts into words feelings I've had for a while for this release. Been playing alot recently with my group and we are getting more and more competitive. Haven't noticed it until listening to guys. My favorite games though have been narrative and ones we have built up a story for over WhatsApp days before. Hopefully I can get that feeling with old-world once again. Dark-Omen themed missions would be amazing and get the fifteen year old boy in me way too excited haha.

[@6Stevo]

Best suprise I had today! Brilliantly entertaining chat between you both. Let's see some more of this please. 😊

[@Ideataster]

Oh heck yeah, The *BARD* I discovered his channel recently and it has been such a delight. Great episode!

[@JeanParisot]

What a wonderful conversation to listen to! As a newcomer to Warhammer Fantasy with The Old World, and coming from TW:Warhammer and Vermintide, I find it very interesting to listen to the thoughts of the "old guard" of players, what their concerns are and musing about things as they used to be. Warhammer Fantasy and 40K were games that I never had the opportunity (read money) to get into when I was young but now I am so pleased to have this chance to dive into The Old World, and I certainly hope that the old guard will join in too. Great chat!

[@DrBlaxill]

Oh, we will! Thanks :-)

[@luis2864]

Welcome :)

[@Christian_Girl120]

Awesome guys!!! This is the greatest commentary on anything I've seen in years!!! I'll be delighted to have a cup of tea, as long as it's English breakfast tea!

[@TomtomClubsandwich]

Fantastic conversation! You two should chat WHF again soon

[@davidlankester]

There’s always Mike Gaslands *HOBGOBLIN* to jump to when they inevitably drop the ball

[@thelastredcoat1662]

I always enjoy listening to the thoughts of fellow grognards. Any new piece of content on this channel is always a treat.

[@dylan9025]

Great discussion! Only played WHFB in 8th, so great to hear more about the history, especially from you two. Can't wait to go back through your catalogue.

[@iggyrocksall]

Fantastic video. I was expecting musings and thoughts on the rules but the art interpretation and analysis was fantastic! For a long time I was in love with the art works of Frank Frazetta so hearing about dynamic poses and what not was just wonderful. This is a great channel, I love your bretonnia tactics one. It may have given me a lethal edge against my mate’s daemons of chaos!

[@luis2864]

Love these old days gentlemen talks. Thanks for the video. Got my minis painted in the meanwhile.

[@CryptSagas]

Absolutely outstanding conversation and points. It’s good to see a clear conversation without the negativity that’s often forced. just watching both of you listen to the points being made by the other made this video. Fully enjoyed it

[@LateStart1]

Wonderfully articulate and interesting discussion gentlemen! Unfortunately shopping, housework and bloody socialisation has to be done so I'll have to watch this when that's all out of the way...look foreword to it. Hope GW are taking note of this important meeting of two giants of the game!

[@RedJRyan]

The Bard is amazingly fun to listen to and some of his predictions proved surprisingly accurate. What a loremaster he is!

[@user-oc3xm9ip2d]

Intelligent, entertaining and fun - was left hungry for more!!

[@Stonehorn]

I wish Bard posted more often on his channel. Im sure he’s just a busy guy, but I like his content. Some recorded Bard/Luke battle reports would be awesome, if you guys live anywhere near each other.

[@DrBlaxill]

Other sides of the world, alas, but who can predict the future 🙂

[@mikemartell365]

Great video and a much needed dialogue about the old world revival.

[@darnokx9277]

Concerning Dwarfs: one of the preview articles shows a big dwarfen army, and it features the 7th/8th warriors/gunners, characters and warmachines from the same generation, the older metal slayers and Longbeards from 8th... plus a unit of Irondrakes, i.e. the flamethrower guys built from the 8th Ironbreakers kit. So while the style or visual identity of Dwarfs is consistent with 7th/8th edition, the Irondrakes seem to be retconned to fit the existing kit. But who knows what they do with the range once Dwarfs get their turn. Assuming the rumours of Brets/TK for release and Empire/O&G in late summer, this could be more than a year after the TOW release anyway.

[@yankee1112]

Great discussion guys! Double subscribe, can’t wait to listen to more of both of you!!

[@johny_0]

Im so happy this was recomended to me!!!! Any video with the Bard in it is a top tier video :D

[@puffychair3437]

This is brilliant! 👏👏👏

[@daemonside]

This is an excellent video. I'd like to point out to the bard that the narrative issue with the lotr gw games was the licensing. I recall Priestly talking about how they could only get the rights to anything found specifically in the films. The studios treated as PR from what I recall. Just a tidbit for you fellas. Keep up the excellent work

[@scoober1376]

Not often I'll sit through a 2hr+ youtube vid, but this was great! I'm pretty new to Warhammer and I've only played 40K, so was really interesting to hear some vets talking about how the game has changed over the years. For what it's worth, 1:43:27 I think the knight has a hooded falcon perched on their gauntlet, I can see where Bard got the cut-off lance from tho

[@dismaspickman773]

Yes, Gnomes must rise again!

[@rosrealm]

Great video, thanks both 😊

[@samuelvoke2347]

Wonderful, came for the bard but stayed for the doctor.

[@Aphex26]

What a fantastic eloquent discussion, thoroughly enjoyed it!

[@jagowestaway2503]

You should definitely take a look at 4th ed WFRP, Bard! It's not identical to 2e (naturally) but it has very much retained the spirit, including the risks of magic causing weird little effects. The one I remrmber from the core book is miscasting and instantly, say, souring all milk within a mile of you, or causing the next child born in that area to be a mutant. Fairly sure it's expanded on in the Winds of Magic supplement, too!

[@hneugiii1245]

It's a great collaboration, guys. You hit on lots of the things I am thinking with ToW. You guys should collaborate more, and we are still waiting for The Bard's review of the new HeroQuest 😉

[@libertyprime2013]

As an American I didn’t want the timeline to move forward, I got into the hobby in 2002. I was ok with it being static

[@scoticvsgossage9378]

Same, I really like the old lore of 40k and Fantasy, 3rd and 6th edition respectfully. Born in 95, finally got into the game in 2018-2019

[@barbarusbloodshed6347]

"Goblin Green and not Goblin Green" Ah, yes. But one must not forget, that 6th edition had BOTH! It started with bases that had their sides painted in Goblin Green and then went on to use a neutral brown. (I think that colour was Khemri Brown? Not 100% sure which one it was) Another argument for 6th edition to be called THE PINNACLE OF WARHAMMER!!!

[@BardicBroadcasts]

Och! The mighty 6th edition again shows its true colours!

[@DrBlaxill]

I can confirm that the hex era Goblin green remains better- in colour, finish, and even taste,

[@icyblankets4971]

Great chat, though the theatrics definitely lasted too long 😅

[@AvalonRegarnished]

My suspicion, for why the 'new art' is it's to put on the Spine/Side of the box. The old warhammer had the artwork on the front, but third-party stockists stock things side-on so you can't see the artwork on the shelf. The new art is all tall and narrow - so it'll fit on the side.

[@jacobhacking285]

The comparison of the art (which is all good) raised this in my head: Answering boring questions vs. Asking interesting questions

[@Jackalblade9]

Excellent discussion, always happy to hear the Bard's voice.

[@alexandernebesky8800]

Never played Fantasy back in the day, too young, but Christ do I love a good grumble! Looking forward to buying the launch box and then struggling with the scale issues you've talked about.

[@Azlaak]

I can savory the day Warhammer old world is re release and I get to see a new cracking video from The Bard

[@stevenkennedy4130]

Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow! Good stuff!!

[@user-tb7cv8sf9x]

Thx to both of you for going over all those topics. Great reflections to TOW and WHFB in general, even for a 6th ed. guy like me.

[@primafacie5029]

The intro was amazing

[@idiotproofdalek]

Just need to let you guys know that this kind of discussion really helps my hobby mojo! More please!!

[@DrBlaxill]

Thanks. I'd love to see your high elves with my own eyes one day ;-)

[@idiotproofdalek]

I don’t doubt I will be dusting them off and making them ready for ToW in the fullness of time…

[@peterixon8708]

I came to this in April 2024, five months after you did this release. I can't help but ponder your reactions at the tragic state of stock availability of the Bretonnians (only 9 of 26 product lines available, two of those 9 just e-pubs). I feel so sorry for people who committed to the Bretonnians. Must drive them crazy not being able to find figures. Great session by the way gentlemen. Well done.

[@RobWright1981]

I love the near-inability to not schtick.

[@ToffeeDW]

Great to hear both of your thoughts. Fingers crossed for the Old World but a dose of scepticism is probably warranted!

[@duncan1533]

I adore The Bard.

[@unclemontypython]

Oh wow it happened! Thanks Doc for getting the man himself in here!

[@hippiecheapskate]

GW has fallen into a protagonism trap, thinking their settings are narratives told from the perspective of protagonists. 40k has never been so small in scope now that nothing happens without one of the prescribed special characters being responsible or involved. Now the universe literally turns on the actions of a handful, shrinking the scope down to tiny stories. It's a real shame that they've done this. The main strength GW had was in how the setting loomed so large with potentiality, with suggestion and inference. The imagination of the consumer became a key part of the feeling of the setting and its enormity and depth. You could call it a heisenberg-esque /quantum potentiality fiction, but it allows for double the perceived content with half the written content. The closed door style of writing, the what ifs all generate a much more satisfying feeling than a paint by numbers spoon fed setting bereft of mystery.

[@matthewwilkinson4781]

As an American, I hated when people asked to advance the timeline, but I think that was mostly pushed by Americans. I like it only when they introduced a new army. Little bits over time are ok and I mean a looooong time. What I liked so much about WHFB was they gave you a setting and then you could do with it what you liked. I suppose you could do that through AOS but there is allot being spoon fed in AOS plus the figures are harder to convert than older plastic WH figures. It seems with AOS the dominance of big models is there. Last game I saw at the local store there were allot of big figures and the smaller troops were very few. I play allot of fantasy based indie games that have been great for my imagination. But i miss my rank n flank grand armies.

[@Balevolt]

Hey now, everyone in my local group in America didn't want them to move the timeline.

[@GhostGuitars]

some fascinating points brought up by the bard. He should definitely do more interviews/discussions

[@newtpondskipper]

The only army I want to see is the only one that won't return. Dogs of War. My favorite models and was able to play in 7th and 8th edition thanks to the Warhammer Army Project. As for Dwarf models I feel they reached their best during the MM range as they had amazing character and had great balance artistically.

[@adampriestley7732]

Warmaster and Hail Ceasar have very similar rules. Written by the same people after all (Rich Priestley, Jervis Johnson et al).

[@valheffelfinger6521]

I thought the good doctor was my favorite Warhammer weirdo. But now this bearded bard fellow is giving him a run for his money. I'll hold back giving the crown until I see whether he speaks directly to one of his miniatures

[@brett7773]

Just a btw… gnomes have been reintroduced in 4th Edition WFRP 😇

[@joncarroll2040]

4th ed WFRP actually does a really good job of referencing older stuff while at the same time feeling very modern.

[@twincast2005]

1:38:50 Those are very clearly Middenland colors. 2:01:05 It may be unusual for other companies, but the slow trickling of individual minis starting one to two quarters before release with a sprawling reveal right before pre-orders go live is perfectly normal for GW. (And remember, it got pushed back from its November 2023 release date because Legions Imperialis had gotten delayed by problems with their Chinese printers.) 2:04:55 I'm not saying she won't be larger, but that is a thoroughly misleading comparison image. For starters, based on her diagonal pose and where her feet are, the new one is clearly much closer to six heads than seven. And more importantly, she clearly has more realistic proportions than the old one. So I'm quite certain the characters won't be larger by all that much. The horses on the other hand seem very much inspired by Clydesdales, based on how little the riders' legs reach down their sides, presumably drawing from Hollywood misconceptions about how large knights' horses actually were, which is just as silly as if they were inspired by Shetlands, but more importantly, it looks like they ought to clash hard with the existing knights when next to them. 2:06:25 Games Workshop have been misleadingly claiming "28 mm" as a silly way to deny scale creep for ages, and more recently they had stopped giving any number for years until that TOW article on WarCom (and then a whole bunch of articles dedicated to the scale of Legions Imperialis). It's half of the reason why the whole term is a meaningless mush, the other one applies to all wargaming/roleplaying miniatures "scales" in millimeters, as there is no consensus on whether it is measured to the eyes or to the top of the head (on an average human soldier in boots). It's utterly inane (for the industry at large; for GW it obviously helps their scale creep agenda) that they don't do like all other scale model producers (other than model trains) and give actual ratios. 2:11:40 Left model: WFB6 The Fay Enchantress, who is unique and distinct from the many unnamed prophetesses, who in turn are high level damsels. Middle model: WFB5 Morgiana le Fay, the Fay Enchantress, who is _the_ Prophetess of the Lady of the Lake, whereas Bretonnian wizards/sorcerers can be both male and female and weren't abducted as children by wood elves. Right model: Élisse Duchaard, "a" Prophetess of the Lady of the Lake, but it isn't quite clear whether there are multiple Prophetesses or only one at any given time (as a guise of the Fay Enchantress). 2:23:50 Almost. All knightly characters could be on foot in WFB3~5. Only one knightly character (lord/paladin) per army could be on foot with the Virtue of Empathy in WFB6~8. But yes, foot knights were only a regular unit in WFB3. And I think there very much ought to be just in case they get dismounted for whatever reason, but sadly these new miniatures look way too different. 2:24:20 I'm confused. They're the same kit. And the two-handed weapon (mostly axes) builds naturally extend more beyond their bases than the one-handed weapon (mostly swords) ones do. 2:26:20 Bretonnian squires in WFB5 could be of both noble and common birth, and were treated as commoners until they achieved knighthood (or otherwise left) regardless of pedigree. But WFB6 removed them entirely, transparently because they conflicted with the retroactive hard divide between nobles and commoners, which is also why Repanse de Lyonesse was no longer mentioned until a couple of vague sentences in WFB8 Chaos books. The sensible thing instead, of course, would've been to restrict squires to nobleborns, but they likely didn't do that because they didn't have a minis budget for them and the old ones conflicted with their expanding of the ban on ranged weapons from all knights to all nobles, which led to mounted squires with spears and bows getting renamed to mounted yeomen and meant that squires on foot with bows became superfluous next to peasant bowmen. WFRP4 has been all about reconciling lore conflicts from different editions, and Repanse is definitely back in the lore thanks to mass exposure in Total War, so it'd be great if they undid all the nonsense above, but I see no indication of it so far. 2:28:15 I, on the other hand, love that they are on the army list. But I don't like the models. The characters show at most a teeny-tiny shift in style from previous Bretonnians, but these "regular" knights on foot ironically are anything but close: Lots of clanky bits hanging off their belts, chunky plates with huge rivets, random leather parts, no maille whatsoever, and utterly oddly shaped helmets (I'm decidedly not talking about the crests here). And they for one we've actually seen on pictures to be positively huge compared to the men-at-arms, which I'm not sure poor peasant nutrition can sufficiently explain. All of which has led me to subscribe to the theory that the foot knights got "rescued" from a planned AoS faction that was abandoned when TOW was greenlit.

[@bgsam8109]

Great video

[@mauropaneART]

Love the Bard, such a friendly character, I have had a change to talk to him and almost get him to do a little cameo on one of my videos (but we had some miscommunication issues so I had to shelf it for the future). I could not agree more when he spoke of how awful GW handled the end time but especially with the retcon, this is exactly what I thought the moment they announced The Old World. Part of me really hoped that they would continue the story and the world would continue going so we can move forward the timeline. Perhaps through time traveling shenanigans of major entities, or some kind of parallel split reality (it's Chaos afterall!) kind of what the Mortal Kombat franchise has done several time over the years, so that GW can say that it is still canon with AoS.

[@HornsfromtheDeep]

This could be a weekly friday night show with you both.

[@oratorrr]

The Bard's description at ~21 mins of a casual playing the PC games, liking the aesthetic and the lore but finding Age of Sigmar unappealing and bland was my experience. There's something very appealing and charming about the Warhammer Fantasy. Bring it back, FFS, GW!

[@matthewpilgrim9610]

Years ago my exposure to Warhammer Fantasy was through the Gotrek and Felix books, I never got into the table top. I fell in love with the setting again with Total War, so I hope that the return of the Old World is successful because I'd like to get into it.

[@Swrdfshtrmbns]

I only recently encountered this channel and Luke but I’ve never heard of Bard before either. And yet, this is probably the most wise and intellectual discussion I have ever heard about the hobby, ever. And you can tell both men are very sincere and passionate without being oversocialized media weirdos.

[@DrBlaxill]

Many Thanks! We'll pick it up again one day.

[@TheSirSpence]

I was enjoying the Bard very much, until he mentioned the Sword of Kahless. Now I bow down to him as a man of great wit and intelligence. Enjoying the back catalogue.

[@markmooney9416]

The BARD understands.

[@kerel995]

Loved dragonslayers and proud of it!

[@pvhep4036]

Considering the new Bretonnian knights on foot, the problem I have with these games, is that most modern armies, back with the 4th edition, have the same troop types. This is for balancing the game of course, however, the characters individual races/armies, look so familiar. These knights are on equal par with chaos warriors, black orcs, saurus, and as mentioned, the Dark Elves executioners. I think it is a bit lame. The all have a cheap flanker, warmachine, cannon and or stone thrower/catapult type. Monstrous troops, your trolls, ogres, minotaurs etcetera etcetera. The character of the races are bit lost to me, with this approach. What do you think?

[@Ecophagy]

I think that's part of the "balance fetishisation" Bard mentioned - it's much easier to have clear balance (both actual and perceived) between armies if they are all fundamentally similar, as opposed to too variable or asymmetric. But I would say even competitive players want variation in playstyle, so there's got to be a middle ground to strike somewhere.

[@ComEliazar]

Watching this a few months later and I just had to comment: Gnomes, you said?

[@ChampionOfSkyrim]

They did say that Bretonnia will have different list building styles, including the classic "every model is from a different barony" style of bretonnia army. But for advertising the cohesive look is quite effective

[@irishmarine3]

TWO AND A HALF HOURS OF THE BARD!?! sign me the fuck up

[@happy10111]

Old world, I want a full update on beastmen lore and models , good to win a few games haha

[@nicolasperel8026]

You guys Rock ! :)

[@Captain_Brian78]

I love the Bards Heroquest video!

[@Drazakhan_Dynasty]

At 1:22:00, the bretonnians art they are looking at. Oh man! Someone needs to make a sculpt available of that bretonnian on the right. What a fantastic model that would be!

[@coljmuzz]

It strikes me that the modern approach to illustrations is akin to an 'Osprey'army book where the approach is to show the viewer how a typical member of a faction would look. There is no room any more for the fantastical guess work that many of the pieces of art from the older editions included. Maybe because so much of the old-world has had its history 'coloured in' by 40 years of tales there is less space for mystery and fantasy.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

The past editions (plus house rules) can still be played. Isn’t it nice to have a new and different option on your menu of choices? The glass is half full. When one gets tired of next year’s edition, play 8th, or modify the newest edition by adding house rules such as guessing artillery ranges, etc. In fact the glass is NOT half full with more selections; rather, it is more like three-quarters full.

[@HeroQuestFans]

look who's back!

[@TheGreenSquander]

Dear Dark Lords, my prayers and sacrifices have been answered! This is the collab’ the Old World needs!

[@badbones777]

Interesting video. Love the Bard, always great to see. I started WFB with 4th ed. My favourites were 6th (some of the most fun and creative armybooks) and 8th. I have to say I don't mind AoS - I do enjoy it. As for the New Old World (so to speak!), I don't know. On the one hand if they change it much, is it really the Old World? If they don't change it at all, why would I not just use whatever set of older edition rules I feel best suits what I'm after for a given game/campaign? I am happy to see it return if only for people who never got to experience it. I just don't know how necessary it is? I can't lie, I do worry to what extent this might also be a reboot simply to add another game system into the wider GW eco-system, and the attendant cycle of supplement and army book churn before the inevitable 3rd or 4th year new edition. If you take 40k, AoS, Horus Heresy and so on (and now Old World) they could quite easily structure it such that every given year sees a new edition of something, and new editions are usually big profit driver. Granted they are not necessarily pushing it as such, but perhaps they assume (probably correctly) that they can count on old hands to drive sales. By keeping it fairly low key I suppose they can be confident it will be fairly low cost and almost guaranteed to make some money. Will be interesting to see if nothing else!

[@DrBlaxill]

I think the point about it being low cost and mainly online models (not taking up store space) is really key. It won't be judged by the same benchmark that 8th ed was when it (supposedly) 'failed'.

[@badbones777]

@@DrBlaxill Indeed! I completely agree with the points you both (and several others) have raised about a lack of factional balance really not being a problem. Especially if viewed through the lens of some armies being more of a challenge for people with greater systemic experience. In point of fact GW have done just this with other systems - Blood Bowl quite openly has established tiers. Orc, Human and Dwarf teams are all great choices for people wanting a solid team and especially for new players. If you want more specialised but harder to master teams then some of the Chaos and Undead teams are there, and if you are really good at the game and/or just fancy a laugh, Goblin, Halfling and even Snotling teams are there to try. You might even win if you're really good! And this is in no way any detriment to the game. Rather than chase the elusive dragon of balance, accommodate the differences. Blood Bowl and Necromunda had various inducements and other bonuses for the weaker side where it was deemed necessary and that worked just fine. And after all the brilliant alternative lists in the 6th ed army books were so full of flavour and some of the most fun I've ever had with Warhammer - but they were hardly finely tuned balance wise. I don't think I won a single game with my all Eshin list but I loved it! Same with my all Forest Goblin list.

[@noops9220]

I wish the foot knights were more questing knights than knights of the realm on foot… I feel they have more reason to be on foot than realms do

[@SneedChuck-bd2zw]

Thanks doc