Was Anakin REALLY a Mary Sue?

After seeing a lot of people accuse Anakin Skywalker of being a Mary Sue, I decided it was time to get to the bottom of this, and resolve this debate once and for all.

[@TheCriticalDrinker]

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[@bronzeliver6735]

Will u do a video on the boys season 2 trailer

[@somerandomniggaontheintern5333]

*gary sue

[@robertwilliams2520]

I've always considered Anakin as a well written character, but poorly acted by HC.

[@Jay_Baumans_Stuntdouble]

This is awesome because todays my Birthday.

[@We_Are_Borg_478]

Perfect video, drinker.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

"I don't like Mary Sues. They're coarse and rough and irritating and they're everywhere. "

[@marcheskitv]

Just Some Guy without a Mustache I am having a goal to find every single comment you made lol. Found a good 95 already.

[@fegeleinherman8587]

Have you ever heard The tragedy of Rey Palpatine the Mary Sue

[@marcheskitv]

Fegelein Herman “I thought not. It’s a sorry Lucasfilm would never tell you,”

[@Kryptica]

More like YOU'RE everywhere.

[@hookyhook6006]

You just described the Phantom Menace! (Minus Maul and Qui Gon. Don’t touch my handsome men)

[@bravo0105]

Being dismembered and set on fire doesn’t sound like a Mary Sue.

[@robertdouth8979]

But it could lead to a delicious Gary Stew

[@alejandrovillalba3143]

@@robertdouth8979 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@sebastienbeaulieu4070]

@@robertdouth8979 Bro that's too good 😂

[@Alchemistic88]

Right?!

[@ArvexYT]

They're only a Mary Sue, after that, if they miraculously recover by the next day.

[@amelietestroote853]

Anakin: looses his arms, legs, skin, hair, mom, wife, friend, mentor and freedom Rey defenders: MARY SUE!!!! Rey: looses nothing Rey defenders: If you call her a Mary Sue you’re a sexist

[@michealmalloy1934]

Nobody even challenged Rey. Meanwhile Anakin get roasted well by his enemies.

[@0spreii]

@@michealmalloy1934 And his friends

[@LiterallyEveryone217]

@@michealmalloy1934 Quite literally in ROTS

[@Gunnumn]

I love how you name his body parts first.

[@Specolution]

your godam right

[@BOSS_1417]

I can't comprehend the fact that people actually call Anakin a Mary Sue

[@wolfrainexxx]

The people calling Anakin a "Mary Sue," also call people "Nazis" without even knowing what a "Nazi," or a "Mary Sue" actually is. To them, it's just a word with a negative connotation.

[@Doomlovesearth2]

Lots of people are just stupid I guess.

[@jout738]

@@wolfrainexxx Their the brainwashed low iq people who thinks their in all arguments always automatically right, so they dont even google what the word means, when just try come up with stupid counter argument, that Anakin is also mary sue, when I myself always google what new english word means, when english is my third language, so I can have better understanding what people say in videos without getting annoyed by too many words I dont know what they mean.

[@wolfrainexxx]

@@jout738 Yeah, but it's more likely these people aren't "cultured," in that they assume everything, and research nothing. When I hear a Chinese phrase that doesn't make a bit of sense, or a Mexican phrase that seems bizarre, I actually look it up, then have to research it... because sometimes the phrases are rooted in Culture, and don't have easy explanations. In this case, the American phrase "Mary Sue," which has no simple answer, but does ultimately mean, "Protagonist to whom the plot bends to without rhyme, or reason."

[@0neiros.]

@Nogent Anakin was only good with technology in Ep 1 because he grew up around it and built it, it was a skill he reasonably acquired due to his skill.

[@kebsis]

I feel like Anakin's entire story in the prequels was that he WASN'T the Mary Sue they were hoping he would be

[@mrbkkt1]

Nice take.

[@BDLabs2]

EXACTLY

[@u.v.s.5583]

Anakin! You were supposed to bring peace, security and sand to your new empire!

[@billfred9411]

@@u.v.s.5583 I hate sand.... you know the rest

[@andyappleton3353]

Disney looks over the earlier films...."This isn't the Mary Sue we're looking for."

[@AkkadDaily]

Everything goes right for the Mary Sue. Nothing goes right for Anakin Skywalker. The comparison is absurd on the face of it.

[@theMPrints]

Actualy no , there is no doubt for a moment that Anakin will fail. Its still bad writing.....

[@grzyruth9205]

so basically Anakin is the Joker

[@SolarDragon007]

Anakin is badly written on many levels, but being a Gary Stu isn't one of them.

[@RadishDoctor]

It's simply put to hubris: Anakin falls from grace out of hubris and desperation. Rey has no hubris (because she's basically "perfect")

[@jyotiradityaguleria907]

You seem lost, carl

[@Wolffman109]

13:48 Actually, the subtext of this scene is Anakin describing his childhood. He dislikes sand because it reminds him that he was a slave to Watto on a desert planet. Had he been surrounded by snow or fire or forest, he would've hated those instead, because the point is that, unlike the pain of his childhood slavery, Naboo is peaceful and soft and smooth, the exact opposite of Tatooine.

[@ArchmagosErrantCarbos]

Keep in mind too, that anakin was about 18 or 19 when he married Padmé; and was an emotionally stunted and repressed boy who was suddenly given alone time with the woman he was crushing on since even before puberty.(Which is kind of gross now that I say it out loud.)Of course he was going to be awkward and wooden.

[@JuliePartridge-zf2pw]

No the sub text here is that this is the worse chat up line ever, sand is rough, but you, you Padme you are smooth.

[@Wolffman109]

@@JuliePartridge-zf2pw Some of the writing in the prequel trilogy wasn't the best, but I personally think that the hate is a little overblown.

[@JuliePartridge-zf2pw]

@@Wolffman109 Its all personal opinion in the end and I honestly believe the dialogue was dreadful.

[@Wolffman109]

@@JuliePartridge-zf2pw Some was, yeah, but at the same time, I love it.

[@a.s.raiyan2003-4]

Calling Anakin a Mary Sue only started after people ridiculed Rey for being a textbook Mary Sue. It was done mostly by Rey fans just to defend themselves and now it's just their coping mechanism.

[@CorePathway]

Rey is a Mary Sue-per easy, barely an inconvenience type of character 😂

[@trevorthornley8835]

​@@CorePathwayoh really!

[@blakebridges1030]

Anakin commits genocide twice and he's still a more liked character than Rey "Skywalker" Plapatine.

[@randomjoe3941]

Do not call that pretender a Skywalker! She is a Palpatine!

[@blakebridges1030]

@@randomjoe3941 did you not notice the palpantine in quotations?

[@613harbinger316]

That incident with the Sand People is probably the closest Anakin got to being a Mary Sue, as Padme just dismisses his slaughter as a human flaw, because she likes him so much. You could say that Padme could see the good in him, but I think she was also scared of him and his instability and used her political skill to de-escalate him. That's pretty far from being a Mary Sue!

[@ThePlayer920]

@@blakebridges1030 You were misuing sneer qutoes in your original post and should've written Rey "Skywalker" Palpatine instead if that was your intention

[@blakebridges1030]

@@ThePlayer920 fixed it.

[@SeszerCaesar]

"Is Anakin a Mary Sue?" "No" *credits*

[@RenataHanusova]

(Direct and Written by George Lucas)

[@Therizinosaurus]

@@RenataHanusova the best person to direct Star Wars movies

[@Svadilfare]

The people who call Anakin a Mary Sue are dumb as rocks, TBH. A Mary Sue is someone who easily overcomes any adversity and is liked by everyone without reason. Rey fits this description perfectly, while Anakin does NOT. - Anakin is selfish and very arrogant - Rey is selfless and humble. - Anakin makes most people he meets uncomfortable or uneasy, Including Padme, the jedi council and even his future master, Obi-Wan - Whenever Rey meets someone, she is their best friend within 2 minutes. - Anakin talks about his inner darkness, ends up slaughtering an entire village of people, a temple of jedi and children, diplomats and thousands of innocents - Rey talks about her inner darkness and ends up killing her evil, emo boyfriend. - Anakin, the chosen one, stronger than anyone else with the force, faces off against a sith lord after 10 years of jedi training and loses both the battle and his arm - Rey, an untrained girl, faces off against a sith lord the day after learning that jedi are real and defeats him. - Anakin falls to the dark side of the force - Rey resists it without much/any effort. - Anakin is unable to save his mother, while also being the indirect cause of his own wife's death - Whenever someone close to rey dies, they are resurrected by her plot-armor. - Anakin fails to kill Palpatine - Rey kills Palpatine. These 2 aren't even in the same solar system.

[@Go21place]

Glorious

[@ssgss4iammacabeefu_]

Lmao

[@gabler7992]

to be fair, "I don't like sand" scene is plausible imo. I can see myself look like awkward shmuck in front of Padme

[@klh768]

I don't get why people talk so much shit about that scene. He's from a planet of sand... It makes sense.

[@theredcinder7437]

@@klh768 a planet of sand where he and his family were slaves at that

[@subjectdelta4758]

And to be fair, he was a slave at the age of 3 and I’m pretty sure no Jedi would know how to flirt.

[@xminusone1]

I would have done it. But since I'm a German born Canadian who lived in Russia for many years and returned to Canada, it would have been snow instead of sand.

[@xmariokiler2443]

sand bad and i did your mom

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

In the novelization of Episode III, Anakin needed to be a Jedi Master to access a piece of the Jedi library. He thought the key to saving Padme was in that section. So not only did the Council personally insult him, but they also denied him a chance to save his wife.

[@ethanstorms4826]

I’ve also read the novelized versions a long time ago but I thought they’re not considered canon. Still a cool point tho

[@geg_otmopo3]

Couldn't he just ask Obi-Wan for help?

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

@@geg_otmopo3 Ask the Jedi Master on the council for help with the wife he was ABSOLUTELY NOT supposed to have? Don't forget, he did go to Yoda for advice and all he got was silly New Age Buddhism about "letting go."

[@geg_otmopo3]

@@PhilosophicallyAmerican Yes, Obi-Wan is dogmatic as hell but nearly not as much as Yoda. Also he and Anakin in ROTS were MUCH closer than just a master and a padawan, basically brothers. Pretty sure Obi-Wan wouldn't snitch on Anakin and he probably already knew about him and Padme.

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

@@geg_otmopo3 Fair points, but at the same time I understand why Anakin would not wish to take that chance. Additionally, Kenobi is not much more powerful than Anakin in Episode 3.

[@anakinskywalker549]

I used to think that my life was a tragedy, but now I realize, it’s a MEME

[@jakubrejak1114]

A meme to be sure, but a DANK one.

[@stolasgoetia93]

You would get along with a man named Arthur Fleck.

[@Luke-xi2pq]

The best of memes though.

[@unersame8253]

Your meme is cringe, young Cringewalker

[@dix0n778]

I HATE YOU!!!

[@noahlanford2639]

Them: Anakin is a Mary Sue” Anakin at the end of episode 3: *loses his wife, children, limbs, friends, and brother all at once*

[@s4mu1l_ssg64]

@@elmascapo6588 and proceeds to make bad decisions and kill innocent people through these 20 years. Definitely sounds like Mary Sue

[@karateparty100]

@@s4mu1l_ssg64 and then imprisons his daughter, chop off his son’s arm, and carbonate-freeze his future son-in-law

[@TheMamaluigi300]

And his hair

[@karateparty100]

@@TheMamaluigi300 oh yeah haha

[@ardanblade641]

He does get his new best friend, The Senate though...

[@h.s.l6875]

Anakin is a false Messiah, i love his story. He's actually the most compelling character for me.

[@klh768]

Anakin is the one who brings balance to the force until the stupid ass new movies I pretend don't exist came out.

[@magickonyt]

@@klh768 bro what new movies?

[@brockdavid]

The original Obi-Wan was the chosen one. He brought balance to the Force, when he defeated Vader on Mustafar (Lava World, Revenge of the Sith, I don’t count Disney Star Wars as Canon) and Anakin was the “false messiah” as you put it, but, in my opinion, he (as with most messiahs) had a series of critical moments that turn him from a herald of an uplifting exhalation, and becomes a dark destroyer (or, ‘fiery-accuser) to punish society’s (the Emperor) ills.

[@paulh.9526]

@@brockdavid After the events of Mustafar, Darth Sidious was still about. I'm pretty sure even if Anakin didn't turn, order 66 would have happened (although less effective, obviously)

[@klh768]

@@magickonyt idk.. new Starwars movies.. You mean Rogue One? That's the only one I can think of.

[@Steel-101]

What makes Anakin’s story even more tragic is that his personality actually got better during the clone wars. He goes from being an impatient padawan with a bad attitude, to a Jedi knight who has a better attitude and a little more patience. Plus he was a good master to Ashoka. He even showed restraint in the original 2003 cartoon that came out. As a Jedi Knight I mean. I’m not saying he was perfect but still he did show good character development. Still all of that character development was dumped into the lava because Anakin let his fears get the best of him. I will admit though the Jedi council(including Obi-Wan) was a bit critical on Anakin at times. So there was fault on both sides.

[@ronantheronin3521]

The Jedi Councel has done a lot to make Anakin as fucked up as he was. Yoda telling Anakin to let go of his emotions is not a valid response to someone who is grieving the losses of the ones he cares about like his mother, it isn't a healthy way to cope. Also remember in the Clone Wars where Obi Wan AND the Jedi Councel decided to gaslight Anakin into believing his master died? What about the time the Jedi Councel decided Ahsoka had to be put on trial for a crime she didn't commit, that led to her leaving the Jedi order aswell as leaving Anakin. Then the Jedi Councel denied Anakin the rank of master, because they were too scared of him. Sheeve Palpatine has always shown Anakin kindness and acceptance, which is why Anakin chose him over Mace Windu. The truth of the matter is. The Jedi Order where so corrupt and blind from politics that they allowed Sheeve to manipulate Anakin into joining his side.

[@Steel-101]

@@ronantheronin3521 yeah very true. Only thing I disagree with you on is the whole master thing. I think Anakin needs to wait a little bit longer before he becomes a master. He’s a great warrior but there are some things he needs to learn before becoming a master. Even though he matured during the clone wars, he still lets his emotions take control of him. I would say make him a master around his late 20s or exactly 30.

[@TOONYBOY]

@@Steel-101 I took the offer of the seat on the council but not a rank of Master to be a test of Anakin's pride and patience. He was denied the rank of Master, and he got visibly frustrated and vocally critical in the moment. The response they were likely hoping for was something along the lines of "If you do not think me ready for the rank of Master, then I should not have a seat on the Council". But the fact that the title and rank of Master wasn't granted to him being what set him off likely communicated to the Council that he was still too impatient to be considered a Master.

[@rachelclark6393]

​@@ronantheronin3521I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the relationship the council had with Anakin. The council acting officially can't afford to play. They once said Anakin was dangerous, and they were absolutely right. Look how much damage he did because he got too attached to the wrong person. It s not Padme's fault, but Anakin's attachment to her meant the genocide of thousands of people, and later on millions. This is a direct result of Anakin never developing the qualities of an actual jedi. He could act like one, but he didn't have the mental and emotional grounding. This would have been okay if he acknowledged that and stopped putting himself in positions where that internal maturity was *necessary*, but this man was in charge of thousands of lives and acting like a teenager sneaking around. If you don't see what I mean, ask yourself, would Obi-Wan have fallen for the same trap? No. Obi-Wan proves himself capable of self-reflection, self-control, forethought, humility, etc. These are the qualities Anakin learns to imitate but not apply on his own. Would ahsoka have fallen for it? No. We all know she wouldn't have. Because Ahsoka is a jedi. Why does he get mad when told he'll be on the council but not a master? Everything we see tells us other jedi see it as an honor, but a duty and a responsibility. He evidently only sees the honor part. And he's too immature to understand that giving him the rank of Master would be ridiculous. They're not persecuting him by not promoting him. Being a jedi master at 25 would be absolutely laughable. He s way too young. And by his reaction, he proves right then and there that he's not qualified. An actual jedi, even if they were mad or embarrassed, would reason with themselves that expecting a promotion they haven't earned is arrogance and self-absorption. Anakins problems are exacerbated by Sidious's grooming. But that doesn't change the fact that he shares the responsibility because he never actually applies the lessons of the Jedi order. He wants the power, the prestige, to be somebody. But he's not willing to do the work and he has very little humility. If being a jedi was so intolerable, he could have left. Every Canon in star wars makes it clear the Jedi are not chained to the temple. If he felt unsupported, unloved, belittled, he could have left at any time and become and ordinary citizen. The Jedi order would not have pursued him unless he started doing dark side nonsense. He didn't do that because he *wanted* to be important. Why should he, who is so powerful and special, act like a random everyday nobody? I mean, he could have gone back and rescued his mother, you know gotten her off of tatooine, but no that wouldn't do. There are lots of people to blame for Anakin turning out the way he did, mostly himself and Palpatine. But if the Jedi were to blame for anything, it's not being hard *enough* on him.

[@Turamwdd]

@@rachelclark6393 While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with the "not being hard enough on him" line. They said Anakin was dangerous from an early age and treated him as such throughout his formative years. Maybe had they actually been kind to him at some point, he would have been more accepting of their training. When you permanently keep somebody at arm's length, you can't be surprised if they eventually end the relationship.

[@Frosthief]

Anakin: Thinks he's invincible, reality differs Mary Rei: Is invincible, doesn't even notice

[@PopcornMax179]

Anakin: Loses a hand, then later becomes a quadriplegic piece of smokey bacon. Rey: Still got all her original parts.

[@Jays_dead_cat]

shes even surprised by how good she is. like when she moves all them rocks in TLJ

[@Darkdayzz]

Marey SUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEE

[@decay79]

TPM Anakin is pretty much a Mary Sue, everything he does turns to success, it might not be on the same level as Rei but its still there.

[@Norbingel]

@@decay79 sure as heck wouldn't wish that success on anyone

[@nont18411]

If he’s a Mary Sue, he would never become “Darth Vader” in the first place.

[@ZzVinniezZ]

well there is alternative ending of "Star wars episode 3 game" where Anakin kill Obiwan on his high ground and Palpatine. but still would not counted as Mary Sue.

[@whitegriffin3772]

ZzVinniezZ I mean he’s still a villain. He just becomes emperor over palpatine

[@ZzVinniezZ]

@@whitegriffin3772 yes like i said he wouldn't be counted as Mary Sue as no one actually like him in the movie...the Council of Jedi caution with him being "the chosen one", Sith want to Manipulate him. the one who love him is Padme Mary Sue is a character that loved by everyone and even Villain would give the character an Easy time in a fight in a stupid way for the Main character to win.

[@whitegriffin3772]

ZzVinniezZ yeah I know.

[@zer0rama572]

@@ZzVinniezZ were can I c the alternate ending?

[@unit38421]

The story of Mary Sue from a mythological perspective is essentially the absence of struggle and adversity. Anakin’s story, at least if you limit it to the prequels, is a literal tragedy. He sacrifices everything and gets nothing in return, and the worst part is that it could all have been avoided. Sure, Anakin was more gifted than any other but he was equally cocky and arrogant which was the cause of his ultimate fall from grace.

[@sithlordzach8418]

Star Wars is, quite literally, the Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. It's his rise, fall, and redemption.

[@Jake-im8eq]

This is actually why i love the prequels so much. It’s basically one movie split into 3 chapters. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea but you can’t deny the great character development and overarching story

[@christophertaylor9100]

yeah, yeah we can deny that

[@Idk-cy2sb]

Agreed

[@obi-wankenobi7250]

@@christophertaylor9100your favourite movie was probably eternals

[@christophertaylor9100]

@@obi-wankenobi7250 Kids usually like the prequels, its when they grow up and watch them again that they realize how terrible they were.

[@obi-wankenobi7250]

@@christophertaylor9100 what exactly made them so bad

[@ethanglover8244]

Anakin lost his mom, wife, children, friends, and all of his limbs. Rey lost nothing but time.

[@Ivan_Berni]

Krennic losses more time than Rey

[@ethanglover8244]

@@Ivan_Berni and his life

[@InfernosReaper]

​@@Ivan_Berni literally everyone else in that series loses more things than Rey. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic

[@SAGAtheGRAY]

That's not true I'm pretty sure he kept one of his arms, but then again it's been a while since I've seen revenge of the sith

[@ilsgrade8357]

@@SAGAtheGRAY he didn't. In ep. 3 he kept his right arm after the fight with obiwan. His right arm was already cybernetic due to loosing it to count dooku in ep. 2

[@fbitoastypineapples3615]

he literally failed the one thing he wanted to do. save his wife.

[@peterconway6584]

And his mother.

[@ghuttsmckenzie4269]

And lost his legs and padawan, and never even got the title of Jedi master, yeah I'm guessing he wasn't very well liked by Jedi in general.

[@cocodojo]

And failed to bring light to the Force, instead of plunging it into the dark.

[@cocodojo]

And got shorter instead of becoming taller, how's he supposed to stand up and get noticed when he's gone from like 6' to 3'?

[@swahiliranger1022]

@@cocodojo No it was just a misconstrued prophecy (that no one ever talked about until Anakin came into the picture). Its more like- "He will bring balance to the force, but you don't wanna go down that road." But then he did. c'est la vie

[@Lord_Baphomet_]

Even at the end of episode III… when he actually gets into the suit… THE FIRST THING HE SAYS is “Where is Padmé? Is she safe? Is she alright?” And it is at this moment you actually see that he was nothing more than a weapon… and that the Emperor didn’t even grant him his wish of saving Padmé… just used him.

[@bluebladex3]

Anakins personality was shaped by his childhood. He loved his mother who protected him as a slave and quickly went from a slave to a Palawan and was told he was special. Any kid would grow an ego and become overconfident, rash, temperamental which we see as a constant pattern of behavior through the trilogy which makes SENSE. Now with Rey she was abandoned by her parents and had to learn to salvage. JJ tried to show off her salvage skills and whatnot but it was literally a small bit, Rey should have also been reluctant to accept her force sensitivity and have a hard time connecting with people. She should have been distrustful of everyone and not accept any help from anyone due to the pain of being abandoned as a child and feeling that if she were to trust anyone she'd be hurt. Could have had Rey steal the Falcon and run away when they met Han. She should have been someone damaged just like Anakin who had issues with his temper and overconfidence. Rey should have been more introverted, distrustful, skeptical, blunt and sly with half truths to everyone not letting on much about her. People point out Rey's deadpan face but that is what a Mary Sue is. They don't have personalities since they are flawless so they can't be shown as angry people or depressed etc. Rey should have been a very prickly person and hard to deal with but who slowly opens up to Han and Leia. She should have been tempted with Kylo Ren who would try to bond over how it feels to be betrayed and Kylo could have manipulated her to believe to never trust the Jedi as he was betrayed by Luke and Rey believing him and slowly falling for the dark side of the force. We could have had a moment where she and Han develop a bond and at the same time she is bonding with Kylo through the force bond they had or whatever and her switching to the Dark side. But then when she sees Kylo kill Han she'd fall to anger even more and attempt to kill Kylo and lose and be abandoned by Kylo who leaves her for dead after all the promises of making her his apprentice and giving her a place where no one would abandon her and instead she could be the one in charge and the second movie could have been her recovering and Luke perhaps coming back after hearing of Hans death and helping Rey master the force to avenge Hans death out of regret his best friend died because he had abandoned the fight. I'm writing a damn script here but I made this up as I went and pretty much sounds 10x better than Disney's shit not to toot my own horn but honestly even 10 year old me could have wrote something better tbh.

[@connortg5]

honestly this does sound a lot better, like, genuinely the only thing i'd change is (at least specify) that luke didn't still attempt to kill kylo over a *fucking nightmare* seriously, the sequel trilogy has a lot of flaws, but i will always think that *luke skywalker* attempting to murder his padawan and nephew over a nightmare is easily the worst part.

[@ODMUSH]

This is the story we should've gotten, love this it makes logical sense for the character's archetype.

[@panzerschliffehohenzollern4863]

And Rey *DARE* to call herself a "Skywalker" without losing her hand!?!??! What sorcery is this???

[@mainiomooses8174]

Yeah but she put some life force from her hand to the snake in the pit and the hand was like cold for maybe 5 seconds. That's gotta count right..

[@penguinsrockrgr8yt216]

@joaquin arguello she lost her han(d)

[@malmalfactor3544]

@Oliver Higgins That's because Anakin is actually her dad. Sheev Palpatine is Rey's Grandfather and therefore Rey is a Palpatine, not a fucking Skywalker. You're not just part of someone's legacy just because you say you are.

[@12gaugegod]

@@mainiomooses8174 she never had a robotic hand

[@fookinkoont]

@@malmalfactor3544 watch Disney make Palpatine Anakin's father

[@fredrikthorvaldsen9692]

It’s weird cuz Anakin’s whole thing is that he’s a tragic character, that is an anti-mary sue

[@AndreNitroX]

Not to mention he is the master of failure. Mary Sues don’t fail

[@billfred9411]

A mary sue is someone who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws. That doesint line up with Vadar at all. Vadar fucked up so bad that he got the love of his life killed and became number one to the most evil man in the galaxy.

[@billfred9411]

@Twisted Yoda I said he was number one to the most evil man. That evil man is the Emperor. I didn't say anything wrong but i could have phrased it better. What would be more accurate would be to say he became the puppet to the most evil man in the galaxy.

[@danielolsson7134]

@@billfred9411 Second two most evil man in the galaxy as Darth Vader had that tiny amount of light and goodness still bruning inside of him that both Padmé and Luke saw.

[@billfred9411]

@@danielolsson7134 Geez i guess im old and am using out dated lingo you guys dont understand. Being someones number one means you are his right hand man. I was saying Vader is number one to the most evil man. That evil man is the emperor.

[@adamtr1026]

It seems like there were good stories in the prequels for those looking for them and with a bit of generosity for all the awful dialogue. The sequels you can just tell they didn't have a story to tell

[@mikeexits]

Watch the video "George Lucas - King of Wooden Dialogue", it might add to your perspective on the dialogue a bit. I've personally never had an issue with the dialogue, but maybe that's because I watch the two trilogies as a sort of modern cultural mythology, rather than a story that's grounded in our world in every way except the sci-fi stuff. I know it's Apples and Oranges, but they're all still fruit: I also never had a problem with the seemingly odd dialogue in stories like Gilgamesh, the various Shakesperian plays, Brave New World, A Clockwork Orange, Eraserhead, Twin Peaks, and probably others that aren't coming to me yet. I think the merit of dialogue delivery is relative to the tone you're going for in whatever medium you're telling a story within, and the overall way the setting/world in said story operates.

[@mrscruffles801]

"I know it's apples and oranges, but it's all still fruit" I'm gonna remember this next time some penishead says "Um like you literally can't compare (x) to (y) because (superficial different between x and y)

[@_Its_Ya_Boy]

Bassically all the sequels are, just a money grab, but still enough of a continuation of the series I suppose

[@originalstickers]

This got me thinking, what would it take for Anakin to be Mary Sue? * Anakin is established to NOT be a podracing pilot. He is taught the controls to the podracer immediately prior to the race, as Obi-Wan can't race due to an injury right before the race. He wins the race, handily. * Anakin does NOT crash land inside the droid command ship and accidentally torpedo the main reactor. He attacks from a perfect location that no other Naboo pilots thought to use. * When he has his nightmare of Shmi in pain, he immediately leaves in the middle of the night. He uses his force sensitivity to land his ship right outside the Tusken village, walks up and demands they give him back his mother. He admonishes them for their bad behavior and forces them to take on a better merchant lifestyle. Shmi is brought back to Naboo where Padme helps her get the medical attention she needs. Anakin goes Geonosis, saves Obi-Wan, blows up the droid factory, and captures Dooku. Padme falls deeply in love with him for everything he has done, and says she wants to marry him, even if it is a secret. * When Padme reveals she is pregnant, Anakin does NOT keep it a secret. He tells the council and says that he has no choice but to leave the order, for the sake of his wife and child. They immediately grant him rank of master and tell him he is on the council, and that the order must change to accommodate him. * His nightmares about Padme's death are different. He realizes, with the help of his mother, that the visions are false and implanted. He discusses this plot to infect his mind with the council, who all stand in awe as he reveals that it is Palpatine. Palpatine is arrested, but in the process kills many Jedi, Anakin bests him easily and takes him in to custody. The Republic does not become a galactic empire, Luke and Leia are raised by two loving parents. The end. (I am probably missing many things, but this is a general overview)

[@jerichosombilon5169]

Anakin: *Trains* = Loses a hand, gets his ass kicked. Luke: *Trains* = Loses a hand, gets his ass kicked. Rey: *Doesn't train* = Beats the shit out of the antagonist Edit: If into the replies you will go, only pain you will find.

[@ReySkywalker2]

Also.... Anakin: Doesn’t train, is 9 years old and has no experience with piloting = Perfectly pilots a Naboo starship and destroys the Droid Control Ship. Luke: Doesn’t train and has only piloted a space tractor = Is able to pilot an X-Wing better than all the Rebel pilots and can use the Force to make a 1/1000000 shot - WITHOUT a targeting computer. Rey : Trains for 2 years and with ancient Jedi texts = Gets the shit beaten out of her by Kylo, tries to exile herself, gets force life drained by Palpatine and literally dies of exhaustion.

[@jerichosombilon5169]

@@ReySkywalker2 Only AFTER beating the crap out of Kylo Ren 1-2 movies prior. And killing Snoke's bodyguards. With the actual end of the fight is Rey leaving him alone in the middle of the ocean. And Luke was established to be a good pilot and marksman in ANH. His ship is also a similar model to the T-65 X-Wing. Anakin, is literally Force Jesus. His reflexes are beyond any human, this allows him to react and maneuver better than ordinary pilots.

[@charmer-8110]

Our One True Emperor anakin has no prior experience with piloting? I assume you didn’t watch the pod racing segment plus he had R2 during that flight

[@jerichosombilon5169]

@@ReySkywalker2 Also: Rey with no training: *Learns force techniques perfectly without practice, defeating a Dark Side user (A FRIGGING SKYWALKER) the first day she held a lightsaber*

[@adamsandifer5588]

Our One True Emperor clearly you didn’t click on the video to watch it. Her setbacks are merely fleeting moments that leave no lasting mark to her character, therefore she doesn’t develop.

[@darthlucasfuu]

"You just hate strong women!" *Laughs in Ahsoka Tano*

[@themarsman5155]

A Jedi that doesn't win anywhere near all her fights, but is willing to sacrifice herself to save others, like when she thought off general grievous to save the younglings

[@kintamas4425]

Why couldn’t we get Mara Jade?!

[@TheSchultinator]

@@kintamas4425 Disney probably would've ruined her if they had included Mara Jade

[@aaronmueller5542]

@Neo's danger laughs in Satine also

[@NourHan]

@@aaronmueller5542 please, I'll cry now, please

[@FirestoneAnimation]

Anakin: - lost all four limbs - lost a duel to a sith lord and his former master -put into a suit that is constantly torturing him to keep him angry and quite powerful -grew up a slave -actually trained to become powerful -lost his mother. Rey No-Skywalking Palpatine: -Was just bored.

[@rossarama]

Anakin is not a Mary Sue trope. He is a Fallen Hero trope. So different I can't believe anybody could confuse the two.

[@StevenZissimos]

"The fandom's been divided between those who like the sequel trilogy and those who like good movies." Couldn't have said it better 😂

[@ReySkywalker2]

Nah, the Sequels are great movies. Keep being toxic 🤡

[@fidelmarquez3288]

@@ReySkywalker2 keep sucking on those toes

[@kaori1173]

@@ReySkywalker2 u clearly have sh*t taste in movies I bet u loved watching movies like Charlie's Angels

[@ReySkywalker2]

Hi how are ya : l Lol, what a paradoxical statement. My taste in movies is only shit to you because of your differing opinions. Learn how opinions work, kiddo.

[@StevenZissimos]

@@ReySkywalker2 lol "toxic". Imagine calling a different opinion toxic 😂

[@wolfrainexxx]

Anakin cried. Luke cried. Rey frowned.

[@alexanderelderhorst2107]

She frowned cause she saw her script was terrible and it was so bad she couldn't even shed a tear, it surpassed into complete mental shutdown and she blanked out.

[@jumblestiltskin1365]

She frowned because she just knew she'll never be the legends of cinema that the original movies created.

[@malcolmjenkins3585]

Brilliant, *brilliant*

[@dominik4666]

That's on the actor probably lol

[@Ricardo-cl3vs]

Finn yelled "REEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!"

[@doodoo5594]

the fact that people actually hold this take is genuinely hilarious considering we see Anakin lose fights multiple times and is very clearly and obviously flawed to the point that he literally becomes a villain

[@dungusglumbus9946]

I think the issue is that Rey never really failed at anything. It’s always nice to see your protagonist fail at something because it makes the plot more interesting. Anakin loses all his friends, all his limbs, and he literally falls to the dark side. He’s failed on just about every level. Luke also fails in the Empire Strikes Back. Luke is like Anakin. He’s very hot headed and he runs face first into danger too often. And so when he goes BY HIMSELF to face Vader, he gets his arm cut off and thrown down a garbage chute. He also almost dies in Return of the Jedi. If Darth Vader wouldn’t have saved Luke, he would’ve been killed by the Emperor. I can’t tell you a single moment off the top of my head where Rey gets defeated, or is tempted to join the dark side. That’s what makes her a boring character, not cause she’s good at a lot of stuff

[@jacksonconley5117]

Failing also makes the characters more relatable. We see their struggles, we relate to them, and we get to see how they learn from their mistakes and climb out of it and leaves an audience inspired. This is what Disney failed to do with Rey. She had no struggle so she had no relatability.

[@przybyla420]

To be fair, Rey does fail miserably at being likable.

[@JJnEverything]

Rey fails at being a compelling character

[@gomiwomi]

Yeah, she beat Snoke 's ass without getting tossed around like a ragdoll, and Ren without Leia's help and she also beat Luke in a stick fight without having to cheat with a lightsaber. She wasn't killed by Palpatine. She got things so easy. Sure.

[@feco91]

Even Anakin's hair is better than Rey's.

[@binbasesatoktayyldran5236]

Your damn right!

[@VitrixYT101]

Lol fax

[@markiss69]

No ones hair is better than Anakins, well maybe besides obi wan

[@binbasesatoktayyldran5236]

@@markiss69 I don't think it's fair to compare Jesus with Anakin.

[@joesmith4045]

That kinda sus bro but true 😎

[@sealofapproval3578]

Anakin is a Shakespearean tragic character The writing of Rey is a Shakespearean tragedy

[@Icanonlycountto4]

Dude, well put

[@au7923]

Is this a joke?

[@LucavlogsandgamingOFFICIAL]

Not rey, the entire sequel trilogy is a tragedy, a Kathleen Kennedy tragedy

[@grimtermite191]

this is the best comment i have ever read

[@michaelvalentinoyo1259]

@@au7923 No, It's a Fact

[@A76noname]

Another thing about the "we don't grant you the rank of a Master" scene is that it's not only about Anakin's arrogance, but his desperation to save Padme. He thought that he could find relevant information in the Jedi archives that was only accessible to a Master, so that scene must've felt like almost getting a chance to save his lover until it was once again arbitrarily, in his mind, taken from him. This would obviously push him even more towards Palpatine who was claiming he could help Anakin with this matter.

[@JoeMercersWay]

Anakin was the noughties superhero. For a teenager growing up full of angst etc he was a damn good and believable characterisation. It's why, even now, that character is infinitely more loved and regarded than anything that came since.

[@seth8933]

There are two things that never get old: 1. Anakin Jedi temple jokes 2. Younglings

[@thecircleoft.e.d2121]

The latter being, because Anakin killed them all.

[@Lightaxethewanderer]

You forgot sand.

[@dimsthedimwit600]

I actually understood that Ani treated everyome equally. He killed everyone, even kids and women, in same brutality

[@ab5olut3zero95]

@@thecircleoft.e.d2121 that’s the joke Drax....

[@ab5olut3zero95]

I snorted at that... well played

[@doctormalcolm9259]

“You just hate strong women” Damn, seems like everyone forgot about ahsoka, a woman who’s better than Rey smh

[@T0WhiteForYou]

Sexism is way worse these days than it has been since they had no rights forever ago

[@hookyhook6006]

@@T0WhiteForYou What are you trying to get at?

[@hookyhook6006]

Ashoka had a sense of humor, flaws (ie being insubordinate, prone to error, ect), and most importantly: GREAT WRITING!!! It’s the reason why Clone Wars Anikain is such a chad in comparison to the movies.

[@exotoxicekat4915]

People did hate ahsoka when she first came out though, she only became popular later on

[@hookyhook6006]

@@exotoxicekat4915 She became popular nonetheless.

[@khfan4life365]

Anakin isn’t a flawless person, obviously, but I’m gonna list the negative traits I’ve noticed. He’s possessive, arrogant, hot-headed, impulsive, and too trusting towards people who are obviously manipulating him. All these negative traits usually end up with him paying for it. In Phantom Menace, we don’t really see his flaws because he’s still a little kid and the movie mainly focused on Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. However, in the second and third movies, we see his flaws as plainly as a neon sign. He paid for his arrogance and hot-headedness by losing his hand in the second movie. Then, we see him pay for becoming evil by being burned in Mustafar and left to die. The sycophants clearly never watched the movies before. If they did, they would know Anakin’s story.

[@YXalr]

One aspect about Mary Sues that is rarely talked about is that the world treats them with more importance that is justified by the story. Anakin being the chosen one in fact makes him less of a Mary Sue, because it explains why so much importance is assigned to his role (and the importance doesn't prevent other characters from treating him with frustration and disdain). Rey isn't considered to be the chosen one, but both the heroes and the villains assign a lot of importance to her simply because she is the main character of the trilogy.

[@JosephBrostar]

"Anakin is such a Mary Sue because he's flawless in every way" Anakin straight up has borderline personality disorder

[@splitsong7368]

If they consider Anakin flawless that says so much about what they consider virtuous.

[@HereIsWisdom1318]

@@splitsong7368 Those ppl that consider Anakin as a “flawless” person are straight evil!

[@Mephilis78]

@@splitsong7368 That's a good point, because I was thinking about the way these sequel fanatics act.... They have a lot in common with Anakin, especially young stupid AOTC Anakin.

[@simonpetrikov3992]

Yeah he's actually mentally ill like in the clinical sense so that destroys the idea of being him a Mary Sue

[@joshuaholland5279]

He just needed someone to talk to really if the Jedi had allowed attachments he could’ve been the greatest Jedi ever

[@yourstruly4817]

Anakin failed as a Jedi and fell for the dark side and had to be saved by his son, so no. And let's not forget that he has weaknesses, especially sand.

[@Amphibax]

and the high ground

[@kirby7294]

Anakin's weaknesses are Sand, High Ground, and of course, a Bad Script...

[@JCglitchmaster]

Yea but didn't you know Rey failed to beat kylo in a single fight in the 3rd movie after beating him multiple times in the first 2 movies in both combat and Jedi tricks without any training what so ever. So clearly she must not be a Mary Sue.

[@Jim-Tuner]

The typical definition is "character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses." The whole character of Anakin is nothing but weaknesses and flaws.

[@Himmyjewett]

@@kirby7294 that's what make the movies good

[@NotableSavage]

Taken as a slave from birth. Doesn’t know dad. Mom dies. Loses love of his life through his own mistakes. Gets cut apart by his only father figure and burned so badly he could no longer speak or breathe on his own. He’s a Mary Sue the way I’m a tragic and brilliant antagonist.

[@lemurtheory9350]

anyone that says "you aren't ready to have that conversation." is really saying "Im ready to ignore any logical evidence you try to introduce in to the conversation."

[@TheRCScotsman]

The main difference between Anakin and Rey: Anakin is canon. Rey is non-fan-fiction.

[@odinstorm17]

You shouldn't phrase it like that. You make it sounds like all fan fictions are bad. I've read fan fictions that are better than the sequel trilogies that someone got paid to write. For clarification I've only watched episode 7, that was a boring and frustrating movie to watch.

[@timonsolus]

Glasses foo : Absolutely! There’s some amazing Star Wars stories on FanFiction.Net

[@Redrosewitch]

Yes. It's like badly written fan fiction. In fact there are amateur fan fiction writers who could have done a better job.

[@sparkypack]

I will never accept the sequels!

[@TheRCScotsman]

@@branhun This guy got it!

[@SkillLevel0]

How can anyone sit there and say Anakin is a Mary Sue? The guy LITERALLY turned to the dark side

[@ghuttsmckenzie4269]

After getting his legs cut off and getting deep fried.

[@swahiliranger1022]

@@ghuttsmckenzie4269 Nah he was already far-gone before that point.

[@pete3011]

B/c they dont actually know what a Mary Sue is, they just sort of have a vague idea from criticisms of ray, so they incorrectly tried to apply it to Anakin.

[@DattMekker]

@@pete3011 That's exactly what it is. They only note that Rey is "strong" and then somehow equate her to Anakin cuz he was strong too -- ignoring every other characteristic of a Mary Sue, and every other characteristic of Anakin. I think anyone who equates the two either hasn't seen the prequels or was too young to remember them.

[@andersonn330]

it’s like he said ppl don’t even know what a mary sue is

[@alexanderzack3720]

if you boil it down to it..... where exactly did anakin SUCCEED with anything he wanted? .) he wanted freedom from slavery for all slaves: he traded one master for another and there are still other slaves .) he wanted to save his mother: his mother dies days later in his arms .)he wanted to save his wife: his wife dies during childbirth .) he wanted to bring peace and unity to the galaxy: ends up the slave of a dictator .) he fights count dooku: loses an arm .) he fights obi-wan: he loses his legs and ends up more machine than man .) he tries to capture luke: luke escapes .) he tries to turn luke to the dark side: luke refuses and ends up turning vader to the light the only time he succeeded was when he tried to save luke from palpatine that´s it

[@eliguy2344]

I think the perfect counterpoint to Rey is literally just Ahsoka Tano, a character who is incredibly well written, is a strong female character, grows throughout her story, and has to actually learn from others to become a better and stronger person. There's a reason why most people unanimously love Ahsoka and Rey is a huge battleground.

[@imperatricedelaconstellati8523]

She's unfortunately becoming a Marie Sue too

[@samurott8502]

This aged extremely poorly

[@TheUncivilizedNation]

This aged worse then swamp ass

[@EdVonPelt]

@@imperatricedelaconstellati8523 Just pretend her arc ended with Clone Wars.

[@insanecheapo195]

Id add Rebels in there too, however I'm not sure if she should have survived the Vader fight@@EdVonPelt

[@6ixlxrd]

"Is Anakin a Mary Sue?" Anakin: *Can't Even Be a Chosen One Correctly and Fails at Fulfilling His Own Prophecy After Crippling Himself Mentally and Physically* Sequel Fans: "Ya'll hear sum?"

[@samuraidog6836]

Hi

[@dildodickings2668]

Anakin did fulfill his prophecy it just took 6 movies to tell the whole story. He brought balance to the force by killing all the jedi and the sith. It's a wicked story George Lucas is a genius.

[@shrekzebee4435]

@@dildodickings2668 love how you left out the sequels that never even linked to the lore developed by the previous 6 movies

[@dildodickings2668]

@@shrekzebee4435 Yeah to me star wars is the story of the chosen one Anakin Skywalker and that story was told by the first 6 episodes already. Why make more ? Obviously i know why but to me the story of star wars is done they should have made some individual stories not "continue" the already finished story.

[@solar8314]

Not to mention he lost 3 limbs and all his flesh was burned off

[@ErwinSchrodinger64]

Let me get this straight, Anakin, one of the greatest force users ever, loses a lot of his abilities and never reaches the pinnacle of being a Sith lord nor a Jedi master. Loses his hand, his legs, becomes disfigured, and has 100% of body burned. Anakin loses everyone he loves, including his wife, all the while, trying to save those he loves the most. How... in... the... hell... is Anakin Skywalker... a Mary Sue?

[@imo098765]

Palpatine designed Vader life support system to be shit and his suit to be bad for combat, it was meant to keep him down just enough that if they got into a fight Palpatine would have the advantage.

[@obiwankenobi8033]

@@imo098765 ironic

[@gianmelendres5613]

When dumb !diots only googled "Mary-Sue" rather than attending literature classes, that's how.

[@llamapi3]

@@imo098765 I like the explanation for how awkward he fought in the original movies and how it didn't line up with the super acrobatic fight style in the prequels.

[@ZzVinniezZ]

yeah if Anakin is a Mary Sue he would have Force heal Padme and defeat Obiwan despite his "Highground".

[@particularbored6072]

This actually made me appreciate Anakin a lot more than I ever had. I was never a fan of the prequels but, wow, I hadn't really given enough thought to his arc. And the more reviews I watch, the more it's cemented that quitting an hour into this first sequel Disney put out was the absolute right choice.

[@aeaugh9171]

I don’t really like the other prequels but revenge of the sith always gets me going on some existential crisis. Because of basically growing up on watching the clone wars series, I was very familiar with anakin and his story. To watch him fall apart gets me on a spiritual level. I would say anakin is one of if not the best written characters in any movie IMO. He is a fallen angel.

[@somerandomguy2991]

Anakin: Gets his hand cut off and later loses pretty much all his limbs while being turned into a burnt chicken nugget. People: "Ah yes, definitely a Mary Sue."

[@Authent12]

You forgot that he also was pretty well fried by Quant Dwukku

[@insaneweasel1]

Nuggies are for normies reeeeeeee

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Meanwhile, Rey makes it through 3 whole movies with... Hell, did she even get scratched?

[@ffordegroupie4931]

@@Umbra_Ursus I don't even think she made a grimace of effort.

[@infamousgames7621]

fforde groupie I think she might’ve broke a sweat in the Ros but that’s just a theory

[@PrestonGarvey-]

Windu: "Palpatine's lightning is too strong!" Anakin: "Just get a second lightsaber." Windu: "Lmao thanks Anakin."

[@-niyi]

Palpatine: *confused screaming*

[@wiselychosenname2867]

Order 66:aight imma head out

[@ladistar]

hahahahahahahaha damn savage lmao

[@Avatariuz]

Anakin: Here! Use mine too. Get him tiger!

[@tinygreenguy968]

And Palps looked a lot stronger in Episode 9

[@IreneWY]

Anakin is a great character with a good redemption ark. I also also liked the actor and - controversial opinion - didn't hate the sand line. Yes, he didn't get the best of dialogue, but compared to what we get these days it was Nobel price worthy literature

[@stelio3581]

10:49, yeah he deserved the rank of master, as a padawan he went above and beyond to prove his worth while being held back by the order itself,completed damn near every mission with ob1 while he was his apprentice then went on to become a general in the war and damn near single handedly winning the war for the republic and also he was only going for master this hard because he wanted access to the restricted section in the archives to save padme after yoda turned him down, and after what happened to his mom I don't blame him.

[@richardpatton2502]

Next video: “is Darth Vader a Karen?”

[@curtissmith6078]

Would a Karen force choke someone for getting their order wrong? yes. I rest my case...

[@cristoff30]

Is Han Solo a Chad?

[@jeremymenning56]

Is Kylo a Kyle. wait... f$&k.

[@joecool4813]

Vaders management style is a little aggressive, but that doesn't make him a Karen.

[@Lofwyr]

Wouldn't Kylo be the Karen here? He throws temper tantrums when he fails and violently lashes out to those officers who disobey or questions his orders.

[@spinningdemon3878]

SJW's : ANaKin iS A MArY sUE... Prequel memers: It's treason then....

[@xblgamerftw]

im sorry. i had to stiffle a laugh else risking waking up my entire town XD. this was class.

[@stephenleblanc4677]

SJWs: "The world is on fire. Who TF is Anakin? Wait, really? How many years ago was that movie? God, I don't have time. No one but complete fools could possible care about this."

[@jamiesawdy2357]

Yes

[@Stego1819]

@El Gusanillo Del Juego The fact that he doesnt get instantly killed by Dooku shows that he is better than the average jedi. He is also one of the few to survive the arena in Geonosis. As for being a pilot. They simply didnt have enough time to put a space battle in episode 2.

[@Sigismund697]

The Chad Memer vs the Virgin Karen

[@edensicking6172]

Yeah anyone who genuinely thinks Anakin is a Mary-sue, should never be left alone with any people weaker than them.

[@Anakinvoorhees]

“The fandoms been more or less divided between those who like the sequels and those who like good movies” nah that killed me man 😂😂

[@toby1061]

But Anakin is literally an actual Jedi trained by a master and taught for over 10 years. How is that being a Mary Sue.

[@liberatetutemeexinferis5902]

Rey found out about the god cheat code.

[@GeneralG1810]

Because when you're a man hating feminist it doesn't have to make sense, he's a straight white male so he's privileged

[@davidthewaffle7673]

@@GeneralG1810 please be trolling

[@GeneralG1810]

@@davidthewaffle7673 Please don't be a male feminist simp

[@khfan4life365]

Also, Anakin had to be trained even though he was conceived by the force. He’s no Mary Sue.

[@commandershepard5450]

Not even close. He got rejected by the council. He’s training literally started because the council was sad qui gon Jin died. He was shown as immature, and arrogant. He was bested by count dooku fairly easily in attack of the clones. He was fairly easily manipulated by palpatine. He fell from grace to become Darth Vader and was by no means perfect. He was a tragic character which made him so likable. Rey literally found lightsaber and boom, most powerful Jedi ever.

[@adamgray1753]

Very good post, Chris Belcore.

[@b1battledroid179]

Well to be fair count dooku was a master duelist who trained 8+ years of training and his lightsaber was made to duel with.

[@caioramos8454]

@@b1battledroid179 80?

[@b1battledroid179]

@@caioramos8454 no I think it was around 8 to 12 year

[@caioramos8454]

@@b1battledroid179 really? Dudes like 70 in the prequels, thougt he trained more

[@jakejohnson9421]

Another point to Anakin not being a mary sue on the whole pilot thing. He was actually given a rundown on Naboo systems by the pilot of the ship they initially escape Naboo on. Right as they are getting to Corusant there is a scene of him talking to the pilot who tells him "You catch on quick". Now yes this is for a significantly larger ship than the fighter he flies later but most of the controls should just be scaled down and less luxurious options that it was probably even simpler for him to understand. Combine that with his experience and presence in the Force and no wonder he did as well as he did.

[@CaptanF0rever]

also, don't forget he worked for a junk dealer and literally stripped and rebuilt ships/droids on tattooine. If you look into someone in real life named Jesse Love, you can see similarities. He was racing cars at almost the same age as Anakin. obviously ships are different than cars, but starships also have com-navs and droids do a lot of the actual work.

[@eyesonmirages]

I think because of Anakin drastic character development (into evil) the Anakin's story is more interesting than Luke's story. Luke has a typical hero journey but Anakin first does become somewhat hero and later transforms into a villain. Losing his sanity along the way and becomes a merciless killer. This is a sad story and I really felt bad for him. However this also gives more depth to a story.

[@antithesentv305]

I really love how in a way Luke and Anakin have journies that are the complete opposite of each other, despite similarities.

[@BlameTheController]

its hilariously dumb that people think the incredibly flawed Anakin is a mary sue where one of the main principles is to be flawless

[@sethmalcolm6955]

Dude literally kills everyone he meets except obiwan, and survived where he was suppose to die

[@jasonlucero5359]

I like how part of his character is that he cares to much for the ones he loves and would do anything to protect even if it means to kill others for them. It shows his flaw in how he is to easily controlled by his emotions and that his arrogance is his downfall. He also had to work hard to become a Jedi and has many years of experience.

[@rkochamp07]

Love your OW content BTC. Its awesome that youre a Critical Drinker fan as well. Keep up all the great work dude

[@Himmyjewett]

@@sethmalcolm6955 you know who Darth Plagueis is right you know who his Apprentice is right what is Darth Plagueis one standout feature you can make people survive the only reason why he killed all those Jedi was because they thought he was a Jedi but didn't realize that he turned

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

@@sethmalcolm6955 Except Yoda had to save his ass from Count Dooku, so... :/

[@therenegade6577]

Anakin literally lost a limb, his mom, and eventually his wife. All being consequences for his mistakes. The dude’s whole story is how he became Darth Vader. Anakin is full of character development. Rey is nothing but corporate corruption.

[@alecdl98]

And then lost all 3 of his other limbs and set on fire by lava and forced to live the rest of his life in a cumbersome, restrictive, and extremely uncomfortable suit he needs to stay alive

[@cidiose]

Luke is somewhat of a Gary Stu and Ray is the most glaring example ever of a Mary Sue, but Anakin? Nope. PS Edited just to have a better wording.

[@happytimes8623]

@@cidiose how is luke a mary sue? he wouldve died in anh if han didnt come back and shot vaders tie fighter, in esb he walks into a trap on bespin and gets his hand cut off, and in rotj wouldve died if vader didnt kill palpatine lol. how td is he a mary sue? hes also not liked by everyone, in anh the bar alien starts a fight with him, jabba laughs at him when he says hes a jedi. in esb yoda doesnt like him much either.

[@spearfisherman308]

@@happytimes8623 also Luke has trouble with his training like lifting his x wing.

[@lxrd5238]

@@cidiose delete this comment now

[@colinmackenzie6277]

A Brilliant character dissection!!! 👏👏👏 I think in prequels, George Lucas's ideas outstripped the execution...I can see what he was trying to do with Jar Jar, but FML!!! At face value, Jar Jar is annoying, but he could've been the biggest k**t in the galaxy!!! I love how Lucas sets up a character flaw, and through the Arc tears it open wider an wider until catastrophe!!!

[@carringtonbearden4479]

The animated Clone Wars show from Cartoon Network did such a good job portraying Skywalker's gradual decline to the dark side! It's such a good watch.

[@FreakazoidRobots]

The flaws in the Prequel Trilogy were more about execution than concept.

[@xJTKx]

Perfect comment

[@pwnmeisterage]

I don't recall seeing Jar-Jar's execution. Head on a spike, floppy-eared noose, crushed, burned, shot, drowned, impaled, lightsaber sushi, whatever. And that seems like a flaw to me.

[@leonrobinson8180]

@@pwnmeisterage Jar Jar was intended to be comic relief, but he was too over the top. Lucas wisely muted his wackiness and appearances. You know? Accepting fan criticism without calling us -phobes and -ists.

[@InfernosReaper]

Oh yeah. There were some great ideas in there, but they were hampered by George Lucas not being good at writing dialogue and his tendency to get bogged down at points. If someone competent had come in to help clean things up, those movies could've been masterpieces

[@stormblade3408]

I don't think The Phantom Menace plot was a good idea, you had a never before seen Republic and powerful Jedi Order but the movie was wasted on Naboo and Gungans. The other 2 were flawed in execution rather than concept, definitely agree

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

Well Count Dooku and I both kicked his butt and by kicked his butt, I mean amputated his limbs. So no, Anakin is not a Mary Sue.

[@melray1341]

Hello there

[@user-sd4le2tk1j]

Very true Master Kenobi, but you must remember, he got his revenge on both you and Dooku

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

Oh sod off, cheater. You had the high ground.

[@valydendor4472]

@@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370 Art of War. Don't fuck with the High Ground.

[@chrissmart219]

High ground!

[@georgewright3949]

Anakin is an example of how good but troubled people can be driven to great violence without the right level of support and with the righ amount of influence from the objectively evil. He's more a cautionary tale against radicalism by ISIS than a Mary Sue

[@LegDayLas]

I wouldn't even call Palpatine objectively evil. He was wrong.... but so are the jedi.

[@99Gara99]

A Mary Sue doesn't get slaughtered by it's master nor burnt alive

[@jordirapper]

All Anakin was was the chosen one, one gifted in the Force. That is literally it. If he was never trained, he wouldn't know how to use the Force. Rey literally overpowers anyone without any training.

[@sylesdeas_8502]

GrimmyReaper but..but muh desert scavenging.

[@hoouos2]

Exactly, she even used the fuckin Jedi mind trick without prior training. When I saw that in the theaters I was like "how the fuck did you know how to do that? Or rather how did you even know what the fuck that was in general"? She also moved things with the force and defeated kylo ren. And the next movie is all about her training how to use the force and fight and I'm like: FOR WHAT????

[@luisfernandollinas6029]

Fuck, even Anakin being the Chosen One had to go through years of training and was still beaten by less powerful but more skilled/experienced opponents. Note very Mary Sue-like

[@leenaleewitch3731]

If Anakin has been left on Tatooine...he may have never known about the full extend of his power so...yeah not a Gary Sue.

[@stormbringer2840]

@@leenaleewitch3731 If anakin would've been left on tatoinne he would still be working as a slave of watto and would be the best pod racer that ever was . That's it , he couldn't even begin to win pod racing before Qui gon told him how to channel his potential and only then did he win .

[@axourprimefaller]

Anakin: The Tragic Hero Luke: The Archetypal Hero Rey: The Mary Sue

[@solitudeguard3196]

Anakin was just a min maxer

[@noone6812]

Ayup.

[@normadgarmez7026]

Correct

[@shiverfan4867]

@@solitudeguard3196 yep

[@commandercody7693]

Solitude Guard hello guard

[@MuttonfudgeRacing]

Anakin had a tough life,man. He was so hard on himself to be greater than he actually was.

[@Movie16Master]

George Lucas is a fantastic visionary with excellent story elements. The prequel story he wanted to tell worked great as a book, but needed some tweaking to be a movie.

[@voicingdragoon7]

Don't forget the fact that Anakin had 10 years of training inbetween the first and second movie, and then three years of constant warfare inbetween the second and third. Meanwhile Rey was a master after 1 day of doing nothing

[@Anthyrion]

Not to mention: He had a Padawan and learned, that she was HIS responsibility. She was like a little sister to him and she adapted many feats of him and even some flaws (sometimes impatient, not thinking everything to the end). And when it came to Ashoka, he never let anyone do harm to her. I still can remember two incidents, where everyone said, that he should let her go and it is hopeless, to find her. But he didn't gave up, because he loved her (as friend, little sister and padawan)

[@voicingdragoon7]

@@Anthyrion I didn't mention Ahsoka for the sake of keeping It just with the movies, as bringing in third part material would force me to Include stupid programmable lightsaber and force skills from Kylo when talking about Rey, which I refuse to do

[@BenMaguireLONEWOLF9989]

@@voicingdragoon7 Yeah, the idea of downloading knowledge from others kind of pokes a massive hole in things. If you can download ability, what's the point in training?

[@voicingdragoon7]

@@BenMaguireLONEWOLF9989 What's the point of a temple?

[@MrJeffcoley1]

That’s where the Kathleen Kennedy films miss the mark. The Force is supposed to be extremely difficult to master even for those strong with it. It’s not Harry Potter magic, but that’s how Rey fans explain her instant mastery of skills she never knew existed: “She’s a prodigy.”

[@classicmovieentertainment8467]

"People who liked the sequels and people who like good movies" I love this guy.

[@ReySkywalker2]

I hate this guy

[@ReySkywalker2]

Should’ve been, people who like the Sequels and people who do not like good movies.

[@danielboyas7645]

@@ReySkywalker2 Stay salty my friend

[@ReySkywalker2]

Daniel Boyas Oh yeah, I’m sooo salty 🤣

[@scapegoatanimations2191]

@@ReySkywalker2 judging by the fact that you are responding to several different comments, making little to no valid points. And then whining about it to other people. Yeah I'd say you look p salty rn.

[@a_8850]

Drinker, for some reason, the analysis offered in this video has stuck in my mind over time and I've found myself reflecting on some of the points you made. I find that description helps people conceive of and see things that they could not before. Your very apt descriptions gave me new appreciation for the Anakin character and story arc. Just got through watching the video for a second (or third) time. If KZbin had a "Second Like" button, I'da smashed it.

[@Po_goes_brrr]

not to mention, Rey hopped into the millennium falcon and was immediately able to fly it, just as good as Han could after years of learning how the ship reacted, despite Rey growing up without being exposed to ships and flying from a young age like Anakin was.

[@natecote1058]

In Summar: Anakin has serious character flaws and Rey has serious writing flaws. :D

[@madkoala2130]

We can add Anakin to writing flaws if you dont count Clone wars series.

[@therealmrmago9077]

@@madkoala2130 yeah clone wars saved him from being a Mary sue in a classic sense but i still would say he is supposed to be in the story as a critic of the chosen one trope

[@stormbringer2840]

@@therealmrmago9077 Are you serious ? There is literally no definition of mary sue that Anakin can fit in . With or without the clone wars .

[@Perrier_enjoyer]

@@stormbringer2840 facts

[@theendersmirk5851]

@@therealmrmago9077 I'd almost say he's a perfect definition of an anti-Mary Sue in the prequels, with the exclusion of the one time he blew up the droid command ship. His every choice outside of that doomed himself and the Jedi, either in the short, or long term. Heck, I'd argue lore wise he should be a Mary Sue, given his position as the Chosen One, but he manages to be the exact opposite, which is hilarious when you consider that they gave Rey what amounts to a "You are the chosen one who can do everything you want" treatment, but they were unwilling to follow through. I didn't much like Last Jedi personally, but had they ran with the idea that Rey was essentially the new Chosen One, specifically born to stop the new wave of Dark Side users, I'd be cool with that. But instead, they made her what amounts to Palpatine's Niece (no one can make me think of her as his grandchild because unlike Boba Fett, you can't convince me Palpatine tried to raise his failed clone).

[@JosephAland]

I just realized...Rey being the emperor's granddaughter technically makes her a Disney princess (groan).

[@thepsychicspoon5984]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIu2k5d9hNqebM0

[@WessexBladesHandMadeKnives]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iamXnpl4btClZpo

[@jamiebowler4693]

Ahhahahahahhagahahahhahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahagagahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaggahgahagahahahahgagahahahhahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Icarus963]

Well if thats the case isnt leia and padme also princess? Or one is a queen also?

[@princessapplestrach6327]

@@Icarus963 yeah but not Disney ones

[@tdaye6978]

Anakin has lost WAY too many fights to be a Mary Sue! He was born with Mary Sue potential, but never came close to realizing that potential. Which makes him even less of a Mary Sue. Then there's Rey, who's only "mistake" is accidentally being too powerful....

[@mrghostly1118]

Anakin teaches us how power can be currupted and used against us, even when we wield it. He's strong, powerful, ambitious but to hotheaded, he is a person of grant will to fight for everything he loves, but he's a person whose have been flawed and broken since he was born, and with his understanding of what he was and the resentment and fear to face his flaws, he fails to fix them with disastrous consequences.

[@astrocat3434]

Padme: You're breaking my heart. Anakin: Silly Padme, its pronounced "neck".

[@RhazOfRheos]

Alas, she died of a broken heart.

[@azh698]

Though it would be really cool to use the Force to crush or explode someone's heart.

[@astrocat3434]

@@azh698 epic gamer moment

[@lred1383]

@@azh698 It always perplexed me that force users would only ever go for the throat to kill someone with telekinesis. It's been shown that the Force is decently precise in its effect, so why not do something else fun? Tear the jugular vein apart, watch them faint and collapse in a few seconds? Squeeze the brain stem, completely paralyzing the opponent? Endless possibilities

[@hiworld8658]

She died of sadness remember

[@joshuabenitez3260]

"Perusing Twitter when I was looking at calm, logical, and rational comment" Man his sarcasm is on point!

[@businesssecretsofthepharao8901]

Joshua Benitez it’s a second language for the Jocks.

[@warlord733]

@@businesssecretsofthepharao8901 what do you mean?

[@AverageBritishNerd1138]

@@warlord733 It's the way we speak. If there's not thick sarcasm then it's not real conversation.

[@aliyektaie9123]

Thanks! I have so much listening to your videos and i learn something along the way as well. You’re awesome 😎

[@shahrouh]

I remember how despite his high midochlorian count and being one with the force, he was inexperienced enough to take down Dooku when they first fought, because he hadn't honed his skill, and lost an arm for it. At his prime after beating Dooku he was still too rash and lost everything after being cut down by Obi Wan. Rey, with no skilled training was able to take down/stand toe to toe with a trained Kylo Ren. There's a stark difference from the characterization George Lucas portrayed with his main characters compared to Disney.

[@ScripulousFingore6133]

Those who says Anakin is a Mary Sue weren't paying attention. It's not just about being strong

[@lordshadow19]

Episode 1 Anakin is a Sue, that goes away with episode 2 and 3 though.

[@InfernosReaper]

@bodd boward to be real, it was said that Anakin never won a pod race before then, despite various attempts. He probably learned a lot from those failures and definitely took in a lot of junk his boss was throwing out. . As for building droids, fixing things is literally his job, so it makes sense that he can do it. . As for his success in the space battle, he literally just blindly stumbled into that victory like the child equivalent of Jar Jar Binks

[@user-mb4xy2cz3t]

@bodd boward was it implied that during the race it was first time Anakin riding a pod? He's a powerful force sensitive and probably trained how to ride that thing. And it's not like he built robot from scratch, he probably just assembled it from different working parts he found, not a hard task considering he was working at mechanic shop. So yeah, I call bullshit on at least two of 3 accusations.

[@dedge8060]

@bodd boward if you haven't seen it for 20 plus years, why would your comment be valid in the least?

[@Justin_Anvil]

InfernosReaper Agreed. If you’ll indulge me for a minute: In the Star Wars Phantom Menace novelization (which came out months before the movie), Anikin’s force abilities were pretty passive. He was attuned toward mechanical things that he had fixed, and he had heightened perception. You’re right, he hadn’t won a pod race up to that point. As a slave he pretty much put Watto’s junk back together so that Watto could sell it. He had the force, but the main things he did come about through training and he was helped by Watto’s repair droids.

[@ElselchoGaming]

When Anakin fights Dooku with years of training : fails and loses a limb When Rey fights Kylo with no training whatsoever: wins literally every time

[@jimjohnson394]

That first sabre battle lost the new trilogy for me. Totally lost all possible suspense for the whole series.

[@ElselchoGaming]

@Brooks Wimberly okay, how about all the other times she never failed?

[@st4ne4rmthevill63]

Im not defending Rey at all but Kylo won their fight in Rise of Skywalker. Kylo's own mama helped Rey "win" such a stupid fucking movie. Why tf wouldn't all the Jedi help....idk the descendant of the two families that were crucial in defeating the Empire? Skywalker & Solo's?

[@jackdaone6469]

FaZe Papasito Except Rey handles herself well in that fight and winds up saving Kylo at the end.

[@ElselchoGaming]

@@fazepapasito8166 She saved kylo a bunch of times and she took on multiple guards at once too

[@jadedmastermind]

It’s so obviously a woman who posted the “Anakin is the real Mary Sue.” Her post is a bald assertion followed by antagonistically shifting the burden of proof onto the Drinker. It’s literally the “I am rubber you are glue, bounce off me and stick to you” argument of a child.

[@Hk-ox4bb]

“The one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, fall, die trying.” - Green Goblin

[@Chosimba_ng]

"Remember when older mentors were allowed to train the protagonist?" This single statement is the main thing wrong with Rey...

[@thibaldus3]

"OLD(er) MEN(tors)". -> Here is your problem. No movies for them anymore.

[@gogetac2r]

Remenber when Disney created a female Yoda and she just disapeared after episode 7

[@InfernosReaper]

@@gogetac2r You mean that person who was in a cameo in episode 8, but not doing anything useful over some quibble or something and only could be bothered to give very vague clues to the identity of a codebreaker, which ended up causing more problems than it resolved?

[@britbloc123]

Rey's a strong independent woman. She don't need no man.

[@Marmocet]

Yep. In the Disney sequels, we can't show women ever needing to learn anything, especially from a straight white man (yuk!!), so instead, it's Rey who winds up teaching Luke Skywalker a thing or two.

[@twilighthero9358]

"I was browsing twitter looking for calm, logical, rational discussion about the merits of the sequel trilogy" Ah I see you're only interested in the exceptionally rare.

[@thekodex1186]

r/saltierthancrait would appreciate him

[@purpleemerald5299]

*”Rare” implies that it still exists. **_The existence of rational discourse on Twitter is still only a theory._*

[@mctownes2013]

You'd have better luck finding cheap coffee at Starbucks.

[@Dash-lx4ng]

You'd have better luck seeing Bigfoot

[@valco8371]

you’d have better luck understanding a david lynch film on first watch

[@xitaris5981]

Rey: Never flown? No problem, going to outfly experienced Tie Fighters Never repaired stuff? Don't worry she'll bypass the compressor on the Millennium Falcon quicker than the previous owner and mechanic suggesting it. There's no indication that she knows how things work or how to repair stuff from her scavenging experience. Never used the Force? Don't worry, I'll resist mental probing and win every lightsaber fight. Anakin: Made a repaired things regularly. Was trained by the Jedi for ever a decade. Still lost. A lot.