Was Anne Boleyn a Homewrecker?

[@robinpinkham9398]

I loved your heartfelt passionate defence of Anne!!! I've thought this for years and for the same reasons. I believe too that Anne grew to love Henry, but also realize she did not truly have a choice. Could you say NO to a king?! She must have been a smart strong brave amazing woman. She was also human. No one is perfect.

[@allisonbinns4536]

❤

[@lorettabridges7751]

I always thought that Anne must have been frightened by the attention Henry showered on her. What could she do to escape his stalker like attention? For a young woman, the court was everything. Her family were courtiers and their livelihood tied up with the King. A king who can have your head cut off. There is bit of thrill, too, to have the most powerful king groveling at your door, begging for a crumb of attention. This behavior would certainly have scared off any other suitors. I never thought Anne was a home wrecker. There wasn’t much love left between Henry and Catherine. There was respect, but not love. What a situation.

[@isobelduncan]

Henry and Catherine's marriage was quite happy at first but as she didn't produce any other heirs aside from Mary he became very cold towards her.

[@Toltecgrl]

I believe Catherine loved him until her dying day. But it’s kind of like famous people nowadays, they may love the woman they marry but there is so much attention to them and so much temptation from women, that in time they fall out of love with the woman they are with. Plus he married so young.

[@buddasquirrel]

Thank you for defending Anne. Henry sounds more like a stalker. Creepy. Great video...thank you!

[@SafetySpooon]

@Elizabeth Frantes Do you have any evidence that Henry VIII actually raped anyone?

[@bernicepego9463]

@ Elizabeth Frantez I know this is about Anne and Henry but everything you wrote about Zues and the others is very interesting.

[@outlawJosieFox]

Anne was in fact very religious and her interest was very much in leading Henry towards Protestantism. This is what got her killed ultimately because the men in power did not want any of that.

[@outlawJosieFox]

@LN I think it's weird to impute human motives to supernatural beings!? I get that the stories were invented by humans and therefore based on human experience ultimately but they were also capable of such things as birthing offspring without a partner. If only Henry VIII had been the God he thought he was then maybe Anne Boleyn would not have been murdered by his advisors.

[@lorettabridges7751]

Great loves do not end with death. Can love and fear exist together?

[@louscott9928]

I believe Henry should be thought of as a serial homewrecker, I see a definite pattern.

[@sng1934]

I don't think Anne was a home wrecker I think the King was completely obsessed with her and would do anything to have her. She tried to turn him down but he wouldn't have any of it. X

[@maggie2sticks717]

He was the predator and homewrecker. Sad.

[@emiliad.858]

@J C Ruby That's not fair. She wanted to maintain some dignity while a man in power was trying everything to have her. Why should she have submitted as a mistress if she felt like that was beneath her dignity? Who cares if that man was king? She felt she had very little sense of control over her own life and if she could keep from becoming a mistress she would do so. I actually respect her for that. She was strong and intelligent enough to know her worth.

[@emiliad.858]

@J C Ruby Are you a fool? He is not just a married man, he was a king. Did you watch the video? She tried to run away from him. But he is a king that always gets what he wants. She tried her best to preserve her dignity. You are simply a gross misogynist if you can't see that he is the one at fault here. He is the full instigator and she had very little power in the situation. You are absolutely wrong. You are a misogynist.

[@emiliad.858]

@J C Ruby I have nothing to say to Someone who is clearly a disgusting misogynist. Did you watch the video? There's no way for Anne to know what the future outcome would be of anything. Your opinion has no value because you are simply a misogynist. Good day.

[@rhiannanhughes5252]

@JC Baldivino I agree with you, Anne Boleyn was a home wrecker, people saying that Anne had no choice in the matter are insane, it wasn't illegal to reject a marriage proposal. In fact one woman even told Henry that she'd marry him if she had two heads. Everyone is talking about how unfortunate Anne was, but everyone seems to forget that she was the one sleeping with a married man. She even told Elizabeth's servants to beat her step daughter Mary. She was not a good person, she doesn't seem to have held the slightest hint of empathy for Catherine or Mary and so she got what she deserved in my opinion.

[@stephanierichards1096]

You've mentioned before the importance of religion in Tudor times and your point of Anne believing in Gods plan for her is really valid I think.You're right we cant judge people through our 21st century eyes

[@missweatherorweathernot7870]

I wish the unhinged liberal high school and college students realized exactly what you said, instead of trying to tear down statues and rename holidays because of the past that they find so upsetting to their delicate and hypersensitive sensibilities. :(

[@HeddyT]

@@missweatherorweathernot7870 Yes!

[@montrelouisebohon-harris7023]

You said it perfectly and really had it not been for Henry's relationship with Anne Boleyn he would have still been with the Catholic church and years later the country may have turned Protestant, but it would have eventually happened. The Catholic Church needed reforming back then and how dare these Cardinals have children and women on the side who were kind of like wives and tell a king you can't get divorced because you're unhappy and you really think you have disobeyed God's law because you married your brother's wife . Aside from the fact that the pope said it was okay 20 years ago, if there's another Bible verse that makes you feel in your soul that you did something wrong you should be able to have an annulment. People were very religious back then and even the Protestants were very religious but it was different than that of the Catholic Church.

[@sayitlikeitis5026]

That's a very good point. Alison Weir mentions in the book, "The Lady in the Tower", an account by Alexander Aless suggesting that religious conflict between the reformers and the conservatives at court, played a very important role in Anne's downfall. It is also suggested that Aless might have got his information from Cranmer and Anne had apparently tried to steer Henry into forming an alliance with the protestant league in Germany. Another point that's worth noting is that Anne had written "my time will come" in her prayer book. It's possible she did see her role as queen in terms of advancing reform (just as Catherine Parr later did). Anne sheltered reformers who were at risk of religious persecution.

[@texasgeeg5972]

You hit the nail on the head about there being no precedence for Anne to seriously believe she would be queen. And while she certainly bears some responsibility for Queen Katherine’s fate, her ascent seems as if it is the result of her being an unwitting pawn. So glad I stumbled upon your channel!

[@jericoliz]

I agree with you that Anne didn't set out to ruin Queen Katherine's marriage. However, once she realized that it was within her grasp, it seems that her cruelty towards both the Queen and Princess Mary knew no bounds. If that is true, she would deserve some bad press.

[@isobelduncan]

True Anne didn't exactly along with Mary but she actually suffered more from Henry than Anne. We actually don't what Anne's relationship with Catherine was, and while she was reported as "rejoicing" at the news of Catherine's death by wearing yellow, it should be noted that yellow is actually the colour of mourning in Spain whereas black is associated with celebration. So we can assume she did have some respect for her former mistress.

[@territ7952]

He was the king, he was the instigator of it all in my opinion. Also his desire of a legit heir was top priority as well..he desires her, and as king he was used to getting what he wanted..I give Anne props for not caving and just being a mistress, she didn’t want that stain, I feel bad for her, for due to Henry and his obsession, she was destined to failure. Men chose the sex of the child, not the female.

[@ElizabethF2222]

Terri T I think we can all agree that Henry was a bit of a monster! Ms. Ridgway has done a good job educating me about the real Anne. I never liked her before, but find myself having a growing respect for her, now that I've heard the truth about her from this channel. I wonder why there is so much misinformation about Anne? And it was Henry's "fault" that she gave birth to a girl, not hers. Great comment!

[@territ7952]

Totally Texas lady, she’s viewed as a home wrecker. It was Henry who chased her first, not the other way around. Claire has opened my eyes so much

[@AmazinGraceXOXO1]

Mary C I don't understand what that has to do with my comment.

[@joanwillis3642]

I also share your views of Ann Boleyn. She's quite the scapegoat. I believe that most of this propaganda was circulated by the Catholic Church and those loyal to the Queen. It's very sad what happened to her and she didn't deserve it. I like the way you pointed out that Jane Seymour was always held in high esteem while having done basically the same thing. Good point! Thank you for your videos.

[@coletterice]

And, as Claire points out, Jane had the benefit of precedent, which Anne did not.

[@princesspatriot1544]

I believe these view too . Well said Claire. Cleopatra is another of many women in history who got the same treatment. Seeing Ann's story in hiensight is s great point .

[@marymoriarity2555]

Joan Willis I agree with you. The king was a murderer

[@aads1823]

@Erica Guy and because she was super white looking (ie .blonde hair, blue eys, fair skin, and relatively plump) that was the ideal back in those days

[@pikedagger]

I believe Henry VIII was a psychopath. I don’t think she was totally at fault but for you to make her a Saint is also perilously comes close to fiction. In the end the only true and lawful Queen was Katherine who was more English than Anne could ever be.

[@lethasatterfield9615]

And I'd like to add: Anne Boleyn got the ultimate revenge (although she wasn't alive to see it) in having her daughter be a highly revered queen for....how long? A long time. Plus, she gave it to her father in the cojones by refusing to ever marry thus ending the Tudor line. Who can blame the woman for never marrying?

[@AshleyLebedev]

Well done, video. A great comparison with the purest Jane. A very good point. Another great point is that the King was the employer of Anne’s entire family.

[@joannebohan2243]

Yup pressure pressure pressure

[@tinasamuels3048]

I really loved how you covered this subject so thoroughly Claire. I think that we cannot underestimate how obsessed Henry was with "the pursuit" and yet knowing that in the end he almost always got what he wanted. Wyatt's poem bears evidence to the idea that Anne was in a sense trapped once the King set his sights on her. Its also interesting to me that the people of England at that time wrongly saw Anne as a homewrecker and did not judge Jane in any way harshly and how that thought process has persisted for all these years into our historical fiction and movies.

[@h.calvert3165]

Remember, though, that by the time Henry married Jane, both of his first two wives were dead. Therefore, adultery or the relative rights of anyone else were non-issues. 👸

[@missastrology]

Perhaps it was a perfect storm. Henry started things thinking he’d have an attractive and witty mistress to play with, but as the reality of Catherine of Aragon not being able to give him a son became more ever-present, as Anne rejected his advances (not something Henry had experienced before) - Henry started to desire her more and see her as his answer when it came to securing the line of succession and having his male heir. I honestly believe though, if Catherine of Aragon had given birth to a few healthy sons - Henry and Anne never would gotten as far as it did.

[@sinjinmonsoon9055]

The series "The Tudors" did Anne no favors. Great video as usual

[@juliehunt9665]

And the series, at the admission of its creator, was rife with inaccuracies.

[@AndreaHa]

It was fun to watch though! A lot of people probably think that show to be mostly truth, which is unfortunate.

[@sandranorman5469]

I tried to watch “The Tudors”, but when I compared the lead with Keith Michell’s portrayal of Henry VIII, found it wanting.

[@jamesmilton8765]

That series was the biggest load of BS ever shown and bore no relation to the facts.

[@anthyavila9726]

At least they casted Natalie Dormer as Anne. Her magnetism made a lot of people fall in love with Anne.

[@michellecrocker2485]

I’ll agree with that one. We do tend to look at history and forget that our standards are completely different. It doesn’t absolve how she treated her stepdaughter, though

[@freddiehansen7324]

I agree that Anne has/had a bad reputation (after her fall and execution) where as Jane... had the good sense to produce a son and then die. Who knows WHAT King Henry would have done if Jane had given him ANOTHER daughter and not died so soon. And what if ANNE had produced a living son? I don't think most of the women in those days had much say in anything. The argument for the annulment of CoA & Henry's marriage makes no sense today but it did back then. Though, just like he did with Anne, didn't he get a dispensation to marry CoA? From the Pope? Which should have made the marriage valid. But Henry CHOSE to believe the many miscarriages must have been God's way of telling them it wasn't a valid union. My only "beef" with that logic is that it took him 20+ years to DECIDE that God must have disapproved. It seemed a bit convenient for him to use that excuse to annul the marriage. ALL of his wives deserved better :) Both the Anne's are my favorites of his 5 wives. Very different women, but both VERY smart. Enjoyed your version of events.

[@luvprue1]

Jane also came to the throne well love,and admired by the people. She spoke up for Mary, and she spoke up for the rebels. Those two things gave her a easier time. It also help that the kings true wife was dead, so she wasn't replaced a beloved queen.

[@6falconsue]

In the end, Anne got Henry's goat by producing Elizabeth, who never married (and for good reasons, obviously), thus ending Henry's dream of the continuation of male Tudor rulers. I enjoyed and learned from your "Anne rant", Claire. If the founder of the AB Files isn't entitled to poke holes in the untruths and rumors surrounding Anne, I don't know who is!

[@ncrowe7734]

Claire, Would you please do a video on Jane Seymour? The true Jane, not the demure, innocent Jane that is always portrayed. But the true Jane as far as you know. Thank you.

[@Kpink744]

N Crowe yes that would be fascinating if there are enough records existing ...I’ve often wondered at her supposed sweetness because in those days women had an ongoing fight to get by support family etc .

[@gracefutrell1912]

Krystal Glow I had the miss fortune to bump into someone like That I never trusted anyone with that demeanor ever sense!

[@christinehorror8178]

Right? I mean Jane married him right after he killed Anne.. doesnt sound super sweet to me!

[@darianrose2195]

I'm very on the fence when it comes to Jane. However, I don't buy the sweet demure woman bit, at least not completely. I think she had kindness in her, but....compare the two. As Claire stated, at the start of her courtship with the King, Anne couldn't possibly have known that it would mean her becoming Queen. It wasn't what was first offered her and even once Henry had made his mind, it took years to put her on the throne. I can't condone Anne's hatred of Catherine and Mary, and she was clearly not upset at her former's death....But, Anne didn't imagine Henry would do anything more than discard a wife. Jane, however, knew damn well at least by her own wedding day, what her new husband was capable of. She was coached and did her bit to attract the King, took the place of her own blood(Anne and Jane were cousins, not just Anne and Katheryn Howard) knowing she could become Queen, and said her vows knowing that Anne Boleyn lay in the earth. Now, again, Jane was COACHED. She went for it, but it might not have been what she wanted and who knows how many sleepless guilt ridden nights she had over Anne's death. I'm sorry, but the thought of being touched by a man who had his 'true love' murdered on false charges is beyond gross. I think the real Jane will probably never be known due to her short reign, but from her role in Anne's downfall and her attempts at redeeming Mary and going back to Catholicism points at more intelligence than she's usually given credit for.

[@Cate7451]

Luxe Lady, Mary so hated Anne so she was glad perhaps that Jane replaced her. But yes I think that Jane, a plain spinster, was ordered and coached to be the perfect wife for Henry. The nice, sweet Jane was a contrived personality. Look at the character of her brothers. I think a well told tale of a well rounded Jane would be very interesting.

[@marianaprbr]

I love your point of view and I love that you were ranty. It's high time people stopped badmouthing women like that.

[@coletterice]

It's so good to hear your well-supported views on Anne, and the double standard held for Jane. I also get "a bit ranty" when people judge Anne as though she somehow had a crystal ball and all the power in the 1520s.

[@idontwantachannel7542]

I very much appreciate this video. I'm not convinced that women of Anne's time had enough agency to be a "home wrecker" (or any of the other names you kindly withheld). Those who advocate this fiction about Anne don't seem to realize that it portrays Henry as a man lead by his passions and, somehow, helpless to withstand the attraction that was Anne. I think that fiction is driven by the desire to relieve Henry of the blame for his many sins and misdemeanors (don't get me started about the Pilgrimage of Grace and the massacres in York). The guy was far from blameless and he's the man Anne had to deal with. We have a habit of fixating on all of his wives and we forget they were not the center of any man's life and that other events had a far greater impact on them than they could have on events.

[@lesleywilliams1210]

Excellent point.

[@qiviutqueen5705]

Poor Anne got more than she bargained for with That lot of serpents at court. She never stood as chance !

[@outlawJosieFox]

She certainly started off an innocent but once queen she used her position to advance the Protestant religion which she was very much dedicated to. It was that that got her killed ultimately because the men in power did not want any of that. She learned how to use the power of her position to advance the Protestant cause. Henry died a good Catholic in spite of the reformation.

[@carag2567]

It took me a few days of pausing and coming back to finish this video but I must say it's one of my favorites! I agree with everything you've said here, Claire. One of my favorite parts of delving into Tudor history is looking at it through a feminist lens and trying to get into the mindsets of the women of the period, understanding their feelings and points of view, and really mulling over how these events affected them, what their true motives were, and whether or not written history has been fair to them. I love how you mentioned the dichotomy of the historical treatment of Anne Boleyn vs Jane Seymour. That is precisely the type of patriarchal duplicity that I enjoy uncovering and I nearly cheered when you spoke about it. It has always seemed horridly unfair to me that Anne is painted as the wanton homewrecker while Jane is the saintly "favorite wife" who bore Henry his son and next to whom he is buried. In reality, Anne paved the way for Jane and yet Anne had no idea what was to happen to her. It is entirely unrealistic and unfair to view these events and people with modern standards. And this video does a fantastic job of demonstrating that. Thank you so much for your work!

[@beth7935]

YES! PREACH! :)

[@marionjones9868]

I would love an episode on what you think caused Queen Mary’s death.

[@blossom7582]

this is a great idea!

[@mindyp51d]

It was probably an ovarian cancer.

[@heidelward905]

The history book I read about her said cancer. I can't remember if they knew the difference in female cancers or not, sounded like ovarian from the symptoms in the book. It was called Bloody Mary, it did a good job humanizing her and explaining why she did what she did. She was....a product of her time, sex, upbringing, and station. Her death was really tragic and lonely.

[@ElizabethF2222]

@@mindyp51d That's what I thought it was. She had those "phantom" pregnancies which I think were the symptoms of that at the very least.

[@suzanking5625]

They called it, "Dropsy".

[@lisal2131]

Claire, can you do a video if you haven't already on your opinion on whether Anne Boleyn was actually in love with Henry? I'd love to hear your view on this.

[@hammycats6919]

That portrait of AB in your thumbnail is my favourite portrait of her and truly hope it comes close to how she really looked, absolutely beautiful. 😍😍 Great vid as usual. 👍

[@tristynjones4578]

In a lot of books, Anne is portrayed to be an ambitious women who changed the Tudor court by taking precedence over Mary Tudor and Queen Katherine of Aragon and demanding the Queens rooms before the divorce was finalized. Is that true? That she didn't care about the fact that she was low born. That she even demanded Katherine's jewels before she was queen herself. That she expected to be treated as a royal even before she was crowned?

[@redleaf1344]

I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve always found it a huge leap to suggest that Anne played hard to get because she had her eyes on the crown. It’s would have been far more likely for Henry to move on. But people don’t always seem to take into account the circumstances and the historical context when they judge Anne’s actions. I love how sober and in depth you judge the facts Claire. That’s why I admire you. You’re an example (to many a history dabbler) Thanks for all the videos so far! Huge fan :)

[@janemarie270]

Love this channel. Keep these great videos coming.

[@terrignazari6330]

I do not believe that Henry really thought his marriage to Catherine was invalid. He was well enough educated to realize that Leviticus 18:16 did not apply to his marriage because Arthur was dead when Henry married Catherine. In fact, the Levirate law applied to his case, if he was going to observe Old Testament laws, since Arthur died without issue. Henry certainly realized that and if he didn't, a Biblical scholar, such as Sir Thomas More would have pointed it out to him if he was genuinely troubled. I think Henry simply wanted out of his marriage.

[@irena4545]

Glad you put your foot down on that homewrecker nonsense. First, it takes two to tango, second, it's the husband, not "the other woman", who has made the marriage vows, so HE is the one should be assigned major blame. And I say this as a cheated wife - I didn't blame the girl, I blamed my ex. She had no obligations towards me except the basic human decency, but my then husband broke all his obligations to me. HE was the homewrecker.

[@Theturtleowl]

The instigator was Henry, not Anne. Henry sought the solution of divorcing his wife because he thought it was never a real marriage and being able to have Anne was the 'perfect plan' for Henry, and only Henry. Two birds with one stone. There is in my mind no way Anne would have planned this all out, as is explained in the video, she had no reason to believe Henry would go this far. She might have been much happier had she married Henry Percy, instead of being caught in this huge national storm of national politics, scandal and divorce proceedings. What I do believe is that Anne's relatives did encourage and profit from Henry's love as much as possible and did not bother to hide that much. That makes it seem that the whole situation was born out of greed.

[@annamoshkanbarians492]

Thank you for this amazing video.what baffles me the most is the fact that Jane Seymour did exactly what Anne is accused of doing.she strategicly placed herself in Henry's everyday life,was coached by her father and others and used and dangled her virginity and virtue to seduce Henry but Anne is the "home wrecker" and Jane is the sweet girl

[@dfelixv2008]

Creo, mas que nada, que a Anne se le ha visto de esa manera pues ella fue la primera, ella puso la pauta para lo que siguió ya que después de la caída de la Reina Katharine ni siquiera ser reina era algo seguro. Eso pienso yo.

[@JLFAN2009]

I've read that Jane Seymour actually picked out her wedding dress on the very day that Anne Boleyn was executed.

[@gracefutrell1912]

SnFanForever where did you read that that’s disturbing and And they call Anne the bitch double standard 😒

[@suzanking5625]

Jane became known as beautifully pure and perfect in every way BECAUSE she gave King Henry VIII the living son he desired urgently and above all else. If Anne's son had come to term and lived, King Henry VIII might not have remained in love with her, but her position would have been secure.

[@missweatherorweathernot7870]

NOW, she's the real homewrecker if you want my opinion. But, it's my opinion and others might not agree with it.

[@jodhaaakbarfantuomey8103]

I've often tried to make images on my deviantArt account of what Anne might have looked like, and on my first, I wrote this. In my opinion, Anne Boleyn was an intellectual, stylish woman, she was gifted and she'd grown up in the glamourous court of Francis 1st where women were considered intellectual equals of men and encouraged to debate on anything they chose, they were free to pursue the arts in any way they chose. They were free to take part in religious debates. When she returned to England, she stood out and wasn't about to give up the education and the freedom she'd come to believe was her right. She fell deeply in love with Henry Percy a great match that she was more than qualified to make a success of. By this time Henry VIII had gotten tired of her sister, and liked how different Anne was. So after having Woolsy get Percy out the way. She wanted to get her revenge for her humiliation and broken heart. If there was one thing she had to have learned in the Court of France she learned that men liked the chase. To get rid of Woolsey she'd use that chase, eventually, she assumed he'd get tired of being denied her body and bed and move on. While the chase went on, of course she'd enjoy the wealth, power, and gifts she received. The only thing she underestimated was what Henry would be willing to do to get a son. Once Henry broke with Rome (something she entirely approved of in her own faith) and after seven long years with no end of Henry tiring of her insistence on no sex until marriage; she had to have come to some emotional relationship with Henry VIII, and age stayed away from nobody. No other men would risk their lives to marry her. Her strategy would have worked in France, but not Henry's England. Do I believe that she had sex with anyone but Henry until or after Calais? No, because simply put, she was too smart, and she wouldn't play second best to anyone! As Queen, Anne would have wanted to keep her position, Henry, and she knew what a woman with brains and vision could do, an affair would be too risky for any Queen. The Henry she knew, was ruthless and capricious but she never doubted his love for her. Unfortunately, she didn't know that Henry only truly loved Henry. The most important part of Anne's life is so often overlooked and that is becoming an Adult in Francis 1'st court. Francis slept with every type of woman there was, however, he also believed them to be his intellectual equals, and he believed not even the King could overrule a woman's no. Henry never believed either of those things. Do I think she ever loved him in the 21st century of the word? No. I don't. But no other man in the realm would have risked offering for her. Thomas Wyatt eventually got scared of the King and Percy the two men who truly loved her had no power. What could she do by the time of Calais? nothing. Also she wasn't only denying Henry's sexual desires but her own, it was just as miserable for her to know her only choice if he didn't marry her was to be an actual slut.

[@natalielenz7574]

I’ve been listening for a few years and this is such a re-education of all I was taught growing up. Thank you for sharing your research and wisdom.

[@dreadfuldee2432]

Thank you for posting on this topic. I realized watching various television shows depicting Anne Boleyn that she is often portrayed as a homewrecker and a even as a witch.

[@mbsbrown7838]

The responsibility of "home wrecking" goes to Henry. Women of that time had little to no power of decisions of their won fate. Ann did what she could to get away from him but he was persistent. He realized that Catherine could not have anymore children and became consumed with Anne, willing to do anything to obtain her. Maybe it was her virtue that consumed him, who knows. In an interesting side note, as this series continues I am finding that sections of my family are more intertwined with the Tudors and Boleyn's than I thought.

[@prettymommy6579]

Interesting that you could be related..?!

[@barbaradenicomedia114]

If they really broke Henry's home, the fault is not his alone, but both. No one can blame others for his/her own actions or decisions, or say that others influenced her/him.

[@kimjellen4508]

Anne Boleyn celebrating Queen Catherine’s death in a yellow party dress is a bad look, if she’d been more respectful she’d appear to be a nicer person.

[@isobelduncan]

There’s actually no mention of Anne rejoicing at the news. Also in Spanish culture yellow is actually associated with mourning whereas black is a colour of celebration. So if anything she was paying to respect to her former mistress. She was also involved in a lot of charity work.

[@AnnCee10]

I loved this! Exactly my thoughts and feeling regarding Anne! Thank you for making this and thank you for making videos everyday...I absolutely love this channel and all of your content!

[@alessandraferla1027]

I have never had much love for the person of Anne Boleyn but I don’t think she deserved what happened to her and I really did truly appreciate your presentation of the situation in this video! ❤

[@delta13-98]

OMDS! I'm 99% sure I used a quote from your website in my essay regarding Anne Boleyn a couple years ago. I had no idea you had a YT channel. That's amazing, Thank you for helping my do well in my History Essay lol 💖💖💖

[@krishnarose]

Thank you for defending one of womens most enigmatic characters.

[@08andylee]

"Was Anne Boleyn a Homewrecker?" No, Henry was already contemplating an Annulment anyways because Henry thought he needed a Legitimate Male Heir.. Anne was just lucky to be in the right place at the right time. If it hadn't been her it would of been someone else that Henry ended up divorcing Katharine of Aragon to marry. Which is really sad for me because I [refer Katharine of Aragon over Anne Boleyn. At the end of the day though Anne was not the Catalyst of the Annulment. She just got really lucky that Henry fell for her right when he was contemplating doing something about the fact that his wife and Queen was too old to bear him a Son.

[@k.stacey7389]

I can’t make myself believe that Henry was passionately in love with Anne. Or that was the main emotion involved anyway. The man literally had no idea what the word “no” meant. Somebody actually denying his whims must have driven him insane.

[@EmilyGloeggler7984]

Agreed but likewise, his wives were all complicit.

[@k.stacey7389]

@@EmilyGloeggler7984 I’m not sure how complicit anybody can be when saying “no” wasn’t even really an option. Anne was the only one that even came close to trying. After that they knew damn well both the danger of being his wife, and the danger of denying him was already clear. As Christina of Milan famously said to his proposal, "If I had two heads, one should be at the King's disposal. Alas, I have only the one!" Not being his subject she could speak her mind without fear of losing that single head. Most of his wives weren’t so lucky.

[@isobelduncan]

Maybe more obsessed. I reckon he also clung to the idea of a wife capable of bearing a son which he projected onto both Catherine and Anne.

[@venacollier1430]

Great of you to defend Anne. Great explanation of what possibly went on during that time.

[@sarahhardcastle2433]

I think the answer is quite simple really, Anne didn’t want to be Henry’s mistress because he wasn’t exactly generous to his previous mistresses and her own sister had been cast off. I believe that when the subject of marriage came up she saw her chance and took it. His marriage to Catherine of Aragon was all but over and they were living separate lives. It’s often forgotten that Henry had discussed divorce long before Anne came to his attention.

[@sarahhardcastle2433]

Also meant to add that the idea of a marriage to a king would have been quite unthinkable at first as royalty married royalty and the only other marriage to a commoner had been Henry’s grandparents Elizabeth wood vile and Edward the forth and that had been hugely unpopular.

[@cathryncampbell8555]

@@sarahhardcastle2433 Really good point, Sarah hardcastle! Sir David Starkey proved that Henry VIII probably learned to write under the tuition of his mother, Elizabeth of York. As the 'spare,' Henry was often kept in the Queen's household along with his sister Mary, so their mother had considerable influence over them. I have often wondered whether Elizabeth of York told Princesses Margaret & Mary & Prince Henry about her mother's marriage for *Love* to Edward IV. I wonder about this, because all three siblings, after making state marriages, remarried for *Love.* And marriage based on *Love* was considered abnormal, indulgent & even sinful in the Renaissance period....

[@pk6810]

@@cathryncampbell8555 maybe, but I think it was more they were all spoilt as children by their mother, father and grandmother that they all felt entitled to marry for love especially after an arranged match and I can't blame them, it sounded pretty grim especially Mary's one. That dude was in his 50s and she was 18 🤢

[@jochildress5003]

I have always wholeheartedly agreed with all the points you make. The bottom line with Anne and Henry VIII was that Henry was Anne's sovereign. This is something that Americans can't easily comprehend. It was probably quite difficult for her to extricate herself from the situation once it started. Any woman who has ever turned down a man's advance only to have him stalk her can understand how things can spin out of control that way. I also think that religious education gets in the way of an impartial perspective when it comes to Anne. Even today, Sir Thomas Moore is worshiped as a saint and martyr because of his opposition to Anne Boleyn, and her status as a "whore" is firmly entrenched in the Catholic church.

[@michellecrocker2485]

How could she betray her mistress? Simple. She probably never liked Catherine to begin with

[@dratiniegg5492]

This trope of Anne Boleyn as a gold-digging vixen has been trotted out in so many novels, movies and TV shows from the Other Boleyn Girl to The Tudors to The Six Wives of Henry VIII to Wolf Hall until fiction has shaped the world's view of the real Anne Boleyn I think. People like you Claire do such great work researching the facts, and presenting them in an interesting way that we can relate too. I enjoy reading your historical and biographical content. Any plans to write fiction? I'd love to see you tackle novels about Anne Boleyn because I believe you would write something that is entertaining as well as fact-based ^_^

[@isobelduncan]

I've recently picked up a book by Haley Nolan called Anne Boleyn: 500 years of lies. Basically debunks all the myths surrounding her as well a passionate defence for her case.

[@enchantedrosebooks]

Anne was so innocent when the King was going after her she tried in every way to stop it but she never could succeed. In those times unfortunately the king got what the king wanted. I believe that over the centuries Anne's name has been tainted by these tall tales of people of that court who didn't like her. I believe most of the rumors that were started was because the men were jealous and they wanted the King's favor not a woman. It's tragic what all she went through and then was told to everyone that she committed adultery when he was done with her. I believe the King decided to create these charges because he saw all the hoops he had to jump through with Catherine to get a divorce that he just didn't want to put that time and effort into it when he can get someone else to have a son quickly by beheading anne. So tragic :(

[@maureengillies9495]

If anne had not been on the scene henry would have married another he was done with katherine and wanted to be free to have more children he was the homewrecker

[@amethystdawn9476]

Agree 100%! People go out of their way to excuse the poor King. I’ve tried to imagine what it would be like, back then, if the king turned his sights on you. How could a woman turn him down? It’s a strength of Anne’s that she did turn him down, that she did share her opinions with him. Some always blame women for everything.

[@mizfrenchtwist]

i don't think anne wanted to be henry's wife, she loved another......................she certainly threw every roadblock in his way , which only seemed to fuel his " love ". a homewrecker............not so much , as the ultimate choice to leave his marriage ,was up to him . but if it wasn't anne , it would have been someone else . annes influence , in henry's treatment of mary and catherine , could have been better, much better , that is the problem I have with her................that decency , transcends many centuries...........as far as henry 's being very handsome.......I have seen many likenesses of him , none were handsome........I don't get that........

[@mizfrenchtwist]

@Elizabeth Frantes..............oooooohhhhhh , okay..........I see.............not....

[@cathryncampbell8555]

Re: Henry's appearance -- the Spanish ambassador wrote in 1507 that "there is no finer a youth in the world than the Prince of Wales. He is already taller than his father, and his limbs are of a gigantic size" (from "The Real Tudors," by Charlotte Boland & Tarnya Cooper, p.40). In 1515, Venetian Ambassador Sebastian Giustinian gushed that Henry was "the handsomest potentate I ever set eyes on" (Ibid., p. 40). Henry was a gorgeous-looking Renaissance prince, a scholar, poet, musician, athlete, etc. We forget that prior to serious injuries in 1536, Henry was a dynamic, handsome & compelling man. Wikimedia has a decent portrait of him in his youth: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/HenryVIII_1509.jpg . So he was a highly attractive young man whose qualities drew many courtiers, nobles, ambassadors & scholars to his Court. Plus, as a Renaissance king, he was God's own agent on earth -- in his mind and *also* in the minds of his people. Hope this helps....

[@mizfrenchtwist]

Cathryn Campbell .............I know he was the quintessential renaissance man.......you say he was soooooooooo handsome , where are the receipts , the likenesses , to support this . ........ I saw the painting you attached , i still say where are the receipts, the picture not withstanding..............

[@cathryncampbell8555]

@@mizfrenchtwist If you can get your mitts on "The Real Tudors: Kings and Queens Rediscovered" by Charlotte Boland & Tarnya Cooper, you'll see several portraits created when Henry was young. Pages 42, 45 & 46 offer portraits by: an unknown Anglo-Netherlandish artist; Lucas Horenbout; & Joos van Cleve. All of these were *foreign* artists, just as the ambassadors of Spain & of Venice were *foreigners.* The foreign part is significant, because one might expect a native painter to 'gild the lily' to flatter a Tudor king. Re: ambassadorial reporting -- these documents were created by professional people whose loyalty was to Spain & Venice -- not to Henry -- & their masters expected an accurate report, in an age where appearance was perceived as a mark (or a lack) of God's Grace. *I* have always regarded Henry's eyes as rather piggy looking, even in his youth, but the perception of Henry's contemporaries tells us how *they* thought of him.

[@mizfrenchtwist]

@@cathryncampbell8555............ Cathryn Campbell .........okay i'll get the book you suggest...by the way , wasn't holbein the younger , a foreigner , who painted anne of cleeves...........

[@Warriorchild2]

There was a theory that Anne did not want to encourage the king. That he pursued her and she tried to politely push back, but that you cannot safely reject the king. So she had to eventually give him. Is there any truth to this?

[@rhiannonrede]

Never been a fan of Anne. I have a great feeling for Queen of Aragon but I really enjoyed this video. You really made me think of different perspectives for Anne. I have read everything for years on Henry, His wives, Elizabeth I, the whole Tudor thing. British history is my passion. So I really do appreciate your work for making me reevaluate my feelings about Anne. I really thank you very much.

[@pat412pear]

Henry always wanted a great victory in battle along the lines of Agincourt. Catherine of Aragon had proven she was a better commander when she was his regent. I think maybe he just needed a win and Anne proved herself to be a worthy adversary. I’m not saying she was playing. I agree with you that once she was squarely in his sights, she had few, if any options. Anne’s religious beliefs made Henry not merely just her sovereign leader but her ecclesiastic leader as well. If they had Facebook back then, I am quite sure Henry would have listed his status as . Who could disagree with that? But untimely it was Henry who made a vow to Catherine and to God, not Anne. I love it when you get riled up. It is well beyond the time we should still be ‘slut-shaming’ anyone!

[@carolnewton496]

I agree that there was no way Anne could have foreseen Henry setting the religious world on fire to marry her.

[@AndriaBieberDesigns]

I agree with you and I do think Jane was a little bit more calculating than people give her credit for

[@remyn.9198]

Maybe leaving the court was Anne's way of putting her foot down and showing the King that she was not a toy.

[@kittye8340]

I think Anne is smart, not because she manipulated Henry, but because she refused to marry Henry at first. She must have had her reasons for doing so.

[@ElizabethF2222]

Kitty E Yes, she was so much smarter than all of the other mistresses. She wouldn't sleep with Henry until he married her. She knew how to play him, at least at first.

[@-Reagan]

By most accounts, Anne pushed for the marriage, not to be discarded as a mistress. She manipulated him in a bid for the crown. What sources do you cite that Anne ever refused a proposal by Henry VIII? She was "married" to him in a ceremony in November that was given privately in Dover; a ceremony she wanted solely to reassure her that she'd be married to him *after* consummating their relationship, before she was formally married in the small Whitehall ceremony and prior to a *third* secret ceremony in January.

[@kittye8340]

Marsha Reagan did you even watch the video?

[@outlawJosieFox]

She was very religious in fact

[@outlawJosieFox]

@@-Reagan Because Anne Boleyn was actually very very religious!!!!

[@pamelamorgan7354]

I enjoy your profiles on Anne Boleyn. How history would have been so different if Catherine of Aragon or Anne had birthed a healthy male child!

[@lilysutcliffe1575]

Thank you so much ! I am doing an ancient history assignment on inaccurate modern-day representations on Anne. This has helped so much ! :)

[@anneboleynfiles]

I'm so glad that I was of help.

[@terrydodson430]

We’ve been influenced through so much fiction, tv series , movies , that we ( i), had formed an opinion of Queen Anne has having had a big part in Queen Katherine’s downfall. On further reading, research , including your books, Henry the 8th had already been searching for an annulment ( a way out). He knew Queen Katherine could give him no more children. He made the decision to break up his marriage.

[@terrydodson430]

I’m loving your books , I can read a book or 2 a day , but good books r hard to find , I’ve been slowly savoring your books , like a very good wine! I’d ordered 3 , ready to start 2nd, only a few chapters a day

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

You make a good point. Henry really was as much to blame as Anne if not more

[@luvnlife3332]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful, insightful analysis of this! I've thought these same things too. Modern people judge historical people through our own lens, instead of through the eyes of people in that time period. We underestimate how deeply views of religion, male superiority, the supremacy of the Monarch and "God-ordained" social order affected how they thought and acted. Also, the facts just don't add up. I absolutely love historical fiction, but sometimes we assume that it represents the truth. Even today, there is a tendency to blame and vilify women more than men, and also to pit them against one another.

[@aikikaname6508]

Damn. In one video you completely changed the way I view Anne Boleyn. Even though I’ve started looking into the history more, I never really questioned that Anne Boleyn was out to win the crown from the beginning. But as you’ve demonstrated, logically that makes no sense

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@brantleyhart7566]

I appreciate you giving Anne a voice & sticking up for her & her truth. There certainly, wasn't a lot of that going on during her time esp towards the end. Anne has been vilified throughout the ages & I think she was just waaaaay ahead of her time & she paid for it dearly. 😪

[@judefrazier4727]

Seems to me that Henry just couldn’t stand not getting his way in everything, he wasn’t going to take no for an answer.

[@ElizabethF2222]

It's sad that history portrays Anne as the homewrecker and Jane Seymour as the "innocent" wife, when their stories seem almost identical (being ladies of waiting to the current queen). The difference being that Jane died after giving Henry his long-awaited legitimate son, Edward, and for that reason, her status would always be the highest of all the wives, I think, even if she hadn't died. If only Anne had been able to deliver a son, history would have put her in a totally different light!!

[@rstokes9630]

She could not have known that he would come back with a marriage proposal, but it is a strategy...if she had seen that her sister had been used by the king maybe she was using a strategy that included a risk. People use this ploy all of the time. Can't totally discount that. For the big picture of Anne, I believe she was a bit of a game player, a bit of a ladder climber, and she overplayed her hand. She was then gotten rid of with a pack of lies. But I do not see her as a virtuous, kind hearted victim. Her treatment of Mary and of Queen Katherine must be remembered.

[@missweatherorweathernot7870]

If people want to throw stones at Anne, then start throwing them at Jane Seymour. Now THAT woman was the homewrecker and she did it on purpose. At least Anne said no at the beginning and had nothing to do with Henry for the longest time, whereas Jane wore necklaces given to her by the King in front of Anne and getting caught sitting on his lap by Anne and doing everything in her power to let Anne know he was with her. AND the day she was executed, she celebrated her betrothal. If she was such a kind, humble, wonderful, religious woman, and she knew the King would kiss her butt at this time, she would have said, let's wait a while to let the proverbial body get cold in the ground before we betroth ourselves to each other. No, I don't buy the innocent, simpering, shrinking violet thing and that she was terrified. She was getting fitted for new clothes and planning her wedding. She was probably terrified that she didn't get pregnant right away. Anyway, that is my humble opinion.

[@rayarena879]

You expressed your views so well that I [one of those people who sees Anne as a horrible homewrecker] must reevaluate my perception of her now.

[@AshleyLebedev]

Your channel is growing so rapidly and I’m so happy to see it!

[@brendahampton9040]

Thanks for your a daily videos..Really enjoyed your book The fall of Anne Boleyn a countdown ...

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I always enjoy your videos, Claire! Based on my nearly life-long, informal, study of Anne’s history, I completely share your opinions. I believe that, before the time he really noticed Anne, Henry had become sincerely convinced of a “fault” in his marriage to Katherine, and had been seeking ways to get the marriage annulled, remarry and have more male children, as well as elevating his illegitimate son to a rank that might possibly make him acceptable as his heir, as an alternative. I think the final sign that convinced him, after Katherine’s disastrous obstetric history, is most probably that her menses had become very irregular, indicating the beginning of menopause, or had even completely stopped. She was a little young for this by modern standards, but not by the standards of their time, and even now it’s not that unusual for this to happen in a woman’s early 40s. I don’t think Anne was particularly interested in Henry at first; she never could have expected marriage to him, as you say, but she didn’t want to ruin her future by becoming his mistress, especially with the example of her sister Mary before her. I also think she insisted on keeping her virginity in the hope that that Henry would move onto another woman. Henry ruthlessly pursued her, and I think the pressure was tremendous; she really wasn’t give a choice. Virtually every fictionalized portrayal of Anne assigns her character these really terrible motives, behaviors and personality traits; I think this is just to make the story more interesting, as if it really needs that!

[@AY-kb9lq]

You put it under a different light. I appreciate you defending her, great work!

[@jillkelly2751]

If she was then wasnt Jane Seymour as well? didnt she do the same thing to Anne as Anne did to Katherine of Aragon, yet she still remains the innocent and beloved wife of Henry which she shouldnt be as i think she behaved way worse then Anne ever did. None of them were homewreckers. It was all Henry's doing. Once he had an eye on someone, they pretty much had to comply for fear of what he would do to any woman who rejected him

[@amyrat151]

I think that at first Anne wasn't seeking to manipulate Henry or even imagined that she was capable of manipulating him. No one told her to play "hard to get." However, did she believe that being queen was God's plan or did she just convince herself of that because along the way, after 1527, she wanted to be queen and have that power? Or that the people around her encouraged her ambition to see their own star rise? There's no way of knowing.

[@isobelduncan]

Her family were already doing pretty well. So it’s not unlikely they encouraged her to gain favour with the king.

[@amyrat151]

@@isobelduncan There's a difference between "doing pretty well" and being a relative of the queen, though.

[@janupczak5059]

It seems very difficult to judge or or even "know" any of these people, by virtue of the fact that the only thing we really have in common, is the fact that we are human. You touch on that fact, and it makes a great deal of sense. Our values, thoughts and "superstitions", are so very very different. It's so difficult to know what their motivations were. It seems we can't help but paint them with a 21st century brush, with our own biased opinions which can't help but be colored by a distance of almost 460 years of evolution. I don't think I stated that very well, but I hope you can make sense of my rambling, lol! Thanks for this extremely interesting talk Claire.❤

[@beth7935]

YES!

[@cathryncampbell8555]

I Always ask: Which partner held the most power? KING Henry was God's Anointed, so he held the power over Anne -- and everyone else. End of argument. I agree with you re: Jane Seymour, who actually spoke in support of the Roman Catholics during the Pilgrimage of Grace. She was no gormless twit. ;)

[@SafetySpooon]

Jane Seymour, of ALL the wives, had the MOST formal court & the MOST number of attendants (or close to it). She was NOT a sweet little lamb!

[@lisabelmontage]

@@SafetySpooon Isn't that what happens though. History becomes written by the person who holds the power. Jane knew Henry was married. Anne said no because she knew that he was married. Henry defended Anne didn't he to Catherine. Then he sent Catherine away. Jane would have known this as she was lady in waiting to both Anne and Catherine. Also Mary, Anne's sister got the kings attention. Henry didn't try and execute Mary Boleyn or imprison her so he must have had his reasons. I wish Anne and Henry Percy had married. They clearly loved each other. Henry wanted Anne so Percy had to go.

[@cathryncampbell8555]

@@lisabelmontage I've always wondered whether Henry VIII wanted Anne when she was trying to marry Henry Percy. Percy was intended -- almost from birth -- to marry a Talbot heiress in order to keep the North united. Marriage in Tudor times, as we all know, was *dynastic* & motivated by familial/clan concerns. I'm also not sure whether Anne Boleyn was considered to be Percy's 'equal.' Plus, Anne was supposed to marry an Ormonde heir. So was the king already besotted by Anne? I don't know....

[@wendyjones6077]

Henry proved himself to be an obsessive person who chased women and lost interest when he got them. It would be a nightmare if you found yourself to be the object of his interest - you couldn't win. Only the "wife" he found ugly and never consummated the marriage was treated well by him - he didn't go through the chase, catch and kill game with her so she was exempt from his usual game.

[@lilystonne4108]

Anne Boleyn was a home wrecker in the sense that her relationship with Henry VIII triggered the divorce/annulment between the king and Katharine of Aragon, but that was Henry's fault. He pursued Anne so aggressively that she had no choice. If she had to submit, why should she settled for being his mistress?. Her only crime, from Henry's point of view was her inability to produce a son. Having discarded one wife for this reason, why stop there? So trumped charges were made against Anne that not only cost her own life but also the lives of several men. Kings were powerful men who can practically say "off with your head" and it would have been done. I feel sorry for Anne because being a woman back then, she had no say in what happened to her (that was also true for men who chose to live at court). However, the person I feel sorry for most is Catharine Howard, a teenager with a past, married to an old man, and executed for her indiscretions.

[@lilystonne4108]

Elizabeth Frantes. Anyone living in close proximity to King Henry VIII was in danger of falling victim to his wrath. So many people who once basked in his favour ended up headless. Yikes! Better to stay home on your family estate, away from his line of vision.

[@annadavis2547]

For me one of the saddest parts of the story was the execution of her brother. Her parents lost two children and if I remember correctly George was an only son. I can imagine the pain felt by their mother. And then add this to the murder of at least two more men. Mark Smeaton wasn't a nobleman. I think he suffered hanging and quartering. Anne was not the only victim.

[@isobelduncan]

Henry was already considering an annulment before he met Anne.

[@kittye8340]

I want to mention that taking sides or saying one of Henry's wives in particular is "better" than the others is just silly. All of Henry's wives were fascinating women with different personalities and none of them were "evil." I think Catherine of Aragon and Henry truly loved each other. But love can sometimes turn to resentment. We must keep in mind how stressful and how tragic their marriage was. They lost many children and were under the pressure of producing an heir and defending the relatively new Tudor Dynasty. A normal couple that loses a child can be destroyed easily by the stress, imagine a royal couple! I don't think Henry was obsessed with have a male heir per say. If he really wanted to he could have legitimized his son Henry Fitzroy. Certainly he preferred to have a legitimate heir, but I think that it was more a combination of several different factors that lead to him marrying Anne Boleyn. Anne was certainly not a whore. People calling her that are foolish to believe that she was. If she was so promiscuous she would have just become Henry's mistress, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Personally, I think this concept of women being whores or sluts is very unfair. Men are either excused or praised for bedding multiple women. Yet a woman will be shunned for less than that. Also, regardless of whether or not Anne loved Henry or not, she rejected him. Whether it was because she didn't want to be used and thrown aside like her sister or if it was because she just didn't like Henry, we cannot say. But the fact is she rejected him for some reason. If she were going to toy with him she would have given a little bit and then retreated repeatedly. But it seems that she was only retreating and Henry was still aggressively chasing. I don't know if it was infatuation or love (Hard to believe he'd behead his love), all we know is that something about Anne Boleyn drove Henry to try anything in his power to obtain her. That is not Anne's fault. Their relationship ended rather quickly. Maybe Henry was becoming impatient due to his age and felt he couldn't wait so he cast Anne aside. Maybe someone wanted Anne gone and whispered into Henry's ears. I don't know. But something happened and their relationship started coming to an end. I don't think Jane Seymour was a saint but I do not hate her either. She died so quickly after marrying Henry that it is hard to really make a good judge of her. For the most part she seemed to be easily manipulated by other people. Perhaps Henry continued to say Jane was his true wife for the sole reason of ensuring that his only son with her was legitimate. After all, even if Anne or Catherine were his true wives, he didn't want Mary or Elizabeth to be his legitimate heirs. But I do think he truly had affection for Jane. Anne of Cleves was also quite an interesting woman. Although Henry found himself disliking her she ended up pretty well off after the divorce. Poor Katherine Howard. Katherine was very young and Henry by that time was quite old. I do not know if there was any truth to the charges against her, but she still did not deserve to die. Catherine Parr was also interesting. From my understanding she helped educate Edward, Mary and Elizabeth. So really all his wives have good qualities. I think learning about them in depth would be a good thing for most people to do.

[@jmarie9997]

Kitty E Legitimizing Henry Fitzroy wouldn't have solved the problem, because Spain would have supported Mary's claim, leading to civil war. Not to mention, Fitzroy died young.

[@redss111]

Partially agree. But Henry the King and Catherine (first wife) were not in love with each other. There isn't anything to really support that.

[@mbgal7758]

S Far not true! Henry and Catherine were in love when they first married. He wrote to Francis I that even if he had not married her that he would still prefer her above all others. He used to win jousting trophies and put them at her feet in front of the crowds. They were observed to be in love at the beginning of his reign. It’s only after it became obvious she wasn’t going to give him an heir that they fell out.

[@wht-rabt-obj]

I agree. I have tried to make some of these same points to people. The King was MUCH more of a homewrecker than Anne was. And I DO wonder, had Katherine given Henry a couple (or more) sons, would he have still been so hell bent on getting Anne?

[@judithbiller3732]

Very insightful!

[@Slinkynuts]

Anne was different, she had a brain, She was strong She was a Reformer! She had a strong ego and not afraid to show who she was. Not the typical Tudor woman. perhaps she was seen as a real threat to both men and women. I wonder how she would feel about being a role model for women 600 years later. See you in less than a month and glad to hear your voice is back in full force

[@ashleyleonard8148]

Katherine of Aragon CERTAINLY had a brain. And road to muster men 9 months pregnant.

[@shooterdownunder]

I think there's another reason why she is depicted as she is and that is she was a reformist. Remember that this was the reformation and when you are trying to reform you are going to get pushback. Very often when you are dealing with people who don't want to change the status quo and cannot win the argument they will instead go and attack the character of the reformer and latch onto anything that they can get their hands on no matter how untrue it is including the homewrecker and the six fingers lie. That is a problem that is with us to this very day.

[@cherielee2894]

You make some very interesting points that I never considered. While I never would have called Anne any horrible names, and have always thought that Henry was the most at fault in the situation, I did always think Anne was playing hard to get and trying to become queen. I always thought she was extremely foolish in this respect because if he would cast off one queen, what was to prevent him from casting off a second? However, looking at it from the perspective you presented makes so much more sense. I'm actually a little annoyed with myself for having unquestioningly bought aspects of the seductress narrative that's always played out in fiction without even questioning it. I would still like to believe that she was angling for reformation of the church. I always liked the idea that she believed she had a higher calling than simply being Henry's wife. Unfortnately, I'm not sure if there's any evidence to actually support this theory.

[@Corbeaux08]

Yeah, the “home-wrecker” portrait always struck me as very off. I do imagine Anne as someone with charisma, patience, and a talent for drawing the other person out, and that these traits made her very skilled at charming the socks off anyone she met... especially men. It must have also helped her excel at playing the games of courtly love that Henry was famously obsessed with. But a temptress, or a home-wrecker? I feel like to attach those labels to her would be to ascribe motivations to Anne that it just wouldn’t make sense for her to have. To me, it always seemed that there were two important aspects of Anne’s character that strongly underpinned all her recorded actions: she seemed to have been principled (in her own way), and also to have had a strong sense of self-esteem. I think it’s eminently reasonable to think that Anne actively spurned the idea of ending up like Bessie Blount OR her sister... According to the image I have of her, Anne would have settled for nothing less than the best situation she could get from her position, without being dishonorable about it. Henry may have been the King, but at least at that point, he would have been unable to give Anne the position she thought she deserved, plus it would have gone against her sense of honor to fornicate with a married man. She must also have cared a great deal about what her parents thought of her decision: the historical sources seem to imply that Mary’s romantic history put her on bad terms with her father, and if this was true, and if Anne was indeed as deeply attached to her parents as all appearances suggest, the desire to avoid disappointing them again could also have played a part. So while Anne did run a (significant) risk of giving offence to the King by refusing his advances (something many of Anne’s modern critics don’t fully take into account), and her refusal doesn’t have a clear precedent, it was a choice that would have made sense in her position for many reasons. I also think Anne was quite a romantic at heart, and abhorred the idea of giving her virginity away to anyone other than the man who was destined to be her soulmate. (Virginity, of course, being very important to women in those times... obviously, it does not and should not carry the same significance to modern women.) It wouldn’t have pleased her at all to have her fun only to be “passed on” to some random nobleman (like Blount or her sister had been) socially acceptable though that might have been. Whereas she seemed to feel that Henry having acted to prove his commitment towards her (by starting the break with Rome and sending Catherine away from court) was enough for her to begin a sexual relationship with him even though they couldn’t technically be married yet. It may even have been that her parents had a loving relationship (which seems likely enough, given from what we know of their temperaments and how they seemed to work well together) and this also influenced Anne to develop very exacting standards when it came to her ideas of what her own marriage should be. Tudor people might not have expected love in marriage, but they certainly hoped for it, and I think Anne probably hoped more persistently and fervently than most.

[@Corbeaux08]

The one thing I do think Anne might bear responsibility for was her “ambitious” nature. I’ve said before that Anne would have held out for the best of what she could hope for, within her circumstances. Now, I don’t think Anne started out wanting to be QUEEN so much as she wanted to be a legitimate wife and an honorably married woman, but obviously when the man who is wooing her is the King, being Queen would have come part and parcel with that package. At that point, I think she absolutely set her sights higher, and I do also believe she let Henry’s affection go to her head a little bit. She was NOT an intellectual lightweight, or a person ruled by superstition, so surely she must have understood that Henry’s theological argument was not all that solid on a logical level. I also believe that if Anne had any capacity for empathy (which I believe she would not have been lacking in), it would have bothered her that her gain was so directly tied to a devastating loss for Queen Catherine (who she had served, after all) and the young Princess Mary. If she did suffer any remorse, we don’t see evidence of it having ever influenced any of her decisions. And of course, it’s very likely that the politics of the case being so contentious, there wasn’t any room left for personal feelings of empathy or decency to influence decisions, as is so often the case in such political matters. All the same, this was when I believe Anne’s principles would have been brought into direct conflict with her habit of valuing herself and putting her worth at a high premium. I can’t imagine it felt good for Anne to live with this knowledge, all the while she was Queen. Her other mistake might have been just being way too honest for the Tudor court. Anne seems to have been a person who didn’t stand on ceremony (unless it was another one of the King’s courtly chivalric games), made no bones about taking joy in the perks of her position, and didn’t really like to be coy or put on shows of false modesty. (“The most happy”, indeed.) After all, Henry must have loved her strong-willed and confident personality. And since Henry was King and Lord of everything in his realm, it would have been very easy for Anne to occasionally forget herself and start believing that as long as Henry adored her, it didn’t matter how anyone else in England felt about it... and certainly during their courtship, no one would have dared disabuse her of that notion. But of course, in Tudor times, ambition (only one step removed from the cardinal sin of Pride) was severely frowned upon (to a degree that most modern people don’t seem to fully understand), especially in women. Court would already have been filled to the brim with people to whom Anne could do no right, so it would have been very easy to accuse her of arrogance and even tyranny just for enjoying her life and not making much effort to hide it. (And to be fair, Anne does strike me as someone who could never be accused of having an underdeveloped ego). This is also where I think the perception of Jane Seymour as a caricature of the “angel at the hearth” comes from: Jane is perceived as selfless because she never gave any sign of doing anything in her life (including seducing the King) because SHE wanted it. Her actions, then as well as now, have tended to be explained as motivated by family loyalty or sympathies towards Queen Catherine or Princess Mary or Catholicism or etc. It’s a shame that the historical records barely betray anything of her voice, because I have always been curious about her motivations, which seem a lot more opaque and indecipherable than those of Anne Boleyn or Catherine of Aragon (or really, any of Henry’s other wives).

[@alexandraabercrombie3726]

@@Corbeaux08 ... This is far more even handed than any other comment I've read. I know I'm coming in on this thread a bit late, however, it isn't the first time I've watched the video and I didn't see your comment the first time I watched... I suppose about a year ago. I suppose I would only add that Jane was far younger than Anne had been when she caught Henry's eye. In addition, Anne had spent a good deal of time at the French Court and... even if the rumours about her were false... she couldn't have spent that amount of time there without learning a thing or two. Anne had first hand knowledge of how things went for her sister and no doubt wanted better for herself. I don't believe she thought that Henry would pursue her so ardently once she left court. However, when he did, I think she was definitely smart enough and experienced enough to know how to lead Henry in the direction that she wanted to go, not necessarily knowing whether he would follow or not. But he did follow. Whether out of love or lust or the desire for a male heir or perhaps all three, he followed. If Anne had run off and joined a convent, there would no doubt have been another, but it's doubtful she would have been quite so ambitious. Since we don't know when exactly Henry became interested in her, we can't really say how much of an influence she may have had in his decision to pursue a divorce. As he had offered her the position as his 'Official Mistress', this has always lead me to believe that her rejection of the notion forced his hand... which, after his lengthy pursuit, I expect she thought there was at least the possibility that it just might. I think many people are of the belief that Henry wouldn't have considered a divorce if it weren't for Anne. He wanted her for his mistress and he'd had many before her. He'd elevated his illegitimate son to Earl of Richmond. He was making plans for the future...and then Anne. I also believe that Henry's desire for a male heir is often seen as a matter of pride for him. However, in English history, there is, and was at the time, precedence that a female heir would have difficulty claiming and holding the title. Even Queens with infant sons had difficulty ruling as Regent after their husband's death... not to mention Queens who went a bit rogue even before their spouses were deceased. The end result was always the same...a great deal of bloodshed and even civil war. So, knowing this, I believe Henry had legitimate cause for concern...he didn't believe a daughter could hold onto the throne. God forbid they be invaded by France or Spain under such circumstances. I also think that Henry was quite good at deluding himself. Was it Cromwell or Woolsey who said, "I never tell the King what he 'could' do, only what he 'should'."? Telling Henry what he 'could' do was a dangerous thing because he would set about to justify... either legally or morally... that which he desired. There's no doubt that on some level Henry knew that his argument was either baseless or even founded upon lies. I can't imagine the cognitive dissonance this man must have experienced over such matters. Henry had always been a staunch supporter of the Papacy... and now he was breaking with Rome. This was no small matter and he would have felt it acutely...he was risking his immortal soul. Anne has been shouldered with a good deal of the blame for the schism. It's no secret she was a reformer. Henry, it would seem, at heart was not. Anne no doubt had the King's ear, but the reality would seem to be that it was the men around him who made the mistake of telling him what he 'could' do as opposed to counseling him as to what he 'should' do which eventually led to even their deaths. They unleashed a lion and Anne's own ambition certainly played a part... and she was devoured. I don't believe Anne was guilty of the things of which she was accused... and on some level, I'm certain, neither did Henry. But she'd made some powerful enemies who took full advantage when she failed to produce a male heir and when Henry began to tire of her. Well, I've prattled on enough! Peace.

[@MsDieynaba]

@Corbeaux @Alexandra Abercrombie brilliant commentaries! I think things are more nuanced that we tend to see them nowadays. I think Anne was intelligent, smart, and ambitious. I also think she definitely could have used more decorum in court and empathy, especially when dealing with Queen Katherine and the Lady Mary. To me, she played the game and lost. To be honest, I feel like it was bad press for both of them, given Anne's downfall and the stain it's put on Henry's image in England and abroad. I wouldn't call her a homewrecker, even though her actions definitely had dire consequences on her predecessor's future. I feel like Henry had checked out a while ago when it came to his first marriage, and would have entertained someone else anyway (maybe not to this position though). He's definitely responsible for all of this.

[@Tatopotatoo]

What is so ridiculous is that Anne would be 15-20 years old by 1520. She couldn't possibly have hatched a plan to trap Henry. Plus Henry's record of having mistresses and wives and god knows who else, makes him more creepy.

[@Fayreena]

I absolutely love your series and it is a nice, educational break of my day. However what always makes my day in the best possible way is how your pets videobomb most episodes I have watched so far!!! Just perfect. ;) :D

[@vilwarin5635]

Another point on favour of Anne is... There is no precedent of a king doing what Henry did (breaking with Rome, creating his own church) so whow could shw predict the divorce and everything that came with it?

[@isobelduncan]

Very good points Claire. However I'm astonished how many historians buy into the myth of Anne as a scheming ambitious vixen despite the lack of evidence. Anne and her family must've had quite the shock when Henry proposed. I've recently picked up a book by Haley Nolan called Anne Boleyn: 500 Years of Lies, which I think you'd really like.

[@junecaffyn357]

I have read Hayley Nolan’s Anne Boleyn: Years of Lies, its really interesting

[@annieoakley2925]

I was worried when I saw the title of this video. I thought, oh no Claire's not going to go that route. I should've known better! You really put a spotlight on Anne's position at court which I hadn't thought about. Yes, of course, Henry had all the power. I still wonder how she could've kept him on the hook for so long. Also, if he loved her so passionately, why was he so easily swayed by gossip? Does his desperate need for a son really cause him to throw away the love of his life?

[@sweetpea4625]

buying your book for that passionate defence of anne and her representation by men

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@thegingerunicorn178]

Thank you for these videos. I’ve always been fascinated with Anne B. and it’s amazing to learn so much more about her and her truths.

[@kellymccallister7373]

Oh sweetheart don't worry about rambling I want to here it!!!!!!! I am new to this and want to know EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM ALL!!!! so happy i found you and your channel and i am in the works to get all of your books HAPPY TI BE HERE AND THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO

[@hs9249]

Wonderful points, Claire! I completely agree. Henry had the position of power in these situations. How would Anne be able to deny him truly after he pursued her? Especially with her family to consider and Henry's somewhat ruthless court reputation at that point. Thank you for your thoughts! I enjoyed the video :)

[@candaceloftus1047]

I've always hated the term 'homewrecker'. Even if a woman is trying to break up a marriage or relationship, the man doesn't have to allow her to break up his relationship. It takes two to tango. If a man leaves his wife for someone else that is ultimately his decision and that's on him. Calling the other woman a homewrecker is just an excuse to put the blame on the woman and make the man feel better about his decision.

[@annalisette5897]

What modern people do not realise is that until the middle of the last century, there were many considerations before a couple married. Among the considerations was whether or not a man could support his wife and any children that might be born. In my generation, the Baby Boomers, there was the idea that people could live on love and falling in love was the ultimate reason for marriage. There were many other factors in Anne Boleyn´s generation. For instance, children born out of wedlock were bastards and not allowed to inherit family wealth. The Boleyns had wealth and property and it is possible by the laws of the time that bastard children would be disallowed from inheriting their birthright. This was not a time when a person with no background could obtain an education and build a successful life. I do not blame Anne for not wanting her children to be bastards even if the king was their father. Also, despite the strong position of the religion and the church in those days, kings had mistresses and some sources say men needed outlets when their wives were pregnant. If a man did not relieve himself, bad humours or some such could build up inside him and cause illness. The idea of absolute fidelity in marriage was a mirage we want to believe in. It was accepted at the time that men could have mistresses and Henry had had some over the years. Sources have noted that Henry never forced himself on any woman, that he needed the womanś consent before proceeding. Therefore the wife of Henry that I do not understand is Jane Seymour. What in the world was she thinking when she married the king some eleven days after Anne and others were executed? HOW can Henry be forgiven in this life for murdering the mother of one of his children? How could Jane become the third wife after such a horrific act? Additionally, the very short time between execution and marriage is indecent in any age! I do not know how historians or revisionists could put a positive spin on any of that.

[@rowenacook3021]

Maybe Jane was already pregnant and that's why the hurry to marry

[@Corbeaux08]

Rowena Cook I doubt it. Edward was her only reported pregnancy, and she gave birth to him almost a full eighteen months after the marriage. Given all the drama surrounding the quest for a male heir that had gone on before, I doubt Jane could have miscarried Henry’s child without SOMEONE having written about it.

[@annalisette5897]

@Elizabeth Frantes The really sick and perverse act in the saga of Henry´s wives is the murder of Anne after she had given birth to Henry´s daughter Elizabeth. Anne did not gain any favour because she was a mother. And Catherine of Aragon was cast aside after doing her best to provide children, succeeding only in one healthy girl. I think I see a pattern in some of Henry´s dealings with his wives. I will think a bit more and write it sometime, some place else in the future.

[@AmazinGraceXOXO1]

I don't think Jane really had a choice. I mean, what could she have said to this monster . My King, that is not appropriate!" She was probably terrified to deny him.

[@annalisette5897]

@@AmazinGraceXOXO1 Jane did turn aside Henry´s offer of money by returning it with the message that she was saving her virginity for her husband. Sources say that Henry never forced himself on any woman. Even with Anne Boleyn, at one point he offered to stop bothering her if she did not want him. If any of Henry´s wives was unable to avoid marrying him I would think it would be Catherine Parr. On the other hand Francois I, King of France was supposed to be aggressive. Hugo´s play ¨le roi s´amuse¨ is said to have been inspired by Francois' behaviour. (This play is the background work for Verdiś opera ¨Rigoletto¨.) I think of Francois'reputation when considering what he said about Mary Boleyn. I wonder if women had as much protection and choice in France as they did in Henry´s England. Claire gave the best answer to my question, that Jane was probably under pressure from family and the Catholic faction at court.