Was Dutch always a manipulator?

[@Richard-jj9bj]

Dutch was always a manipulator and saw himself as above the rest of the gang. He wasnt always the revenge obsessed psych he turned into though. His naturally narcissistic nature cause his genuine love for the gang to turn into what we saw near the end

[@clipboss8052]

That's how I always saw him. He's a narcissistic philosopher living in a world where cold pragmatism crushes all moral integrity.

[@cockbergaler0514]

​@@clipboss8052 he threw the word son around so lightly

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

The way he talked about the braithewaithe and the gray is proof enough

[@tjbarke6086]

Yeah, and as he got more and more pinned down, he got more and more frantic and untethered, something you can often see with narcissists.

[@shariqhaider1225]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamwqqGdqK6bmNEsi=cFS7OsmhKW3cjVhv

[@ChaserSRH]

Bro he couldn’t have killed Brontë in his living room because it’s a LIVING room

[@BigdaddyG7810]

AAAAAHHHHH

[@thecowboy9698]

Good one!

[@xavierguy773]

“I know human BEANS Orthor”

[@BiggestHater754]

Mexicans?

[@sGeeMoney]

@@BiggestHater754Guarmians

[@iamwhoiam7887]

I had A God dambed PLAN

[@dagkop2743]

Brain damage?

[@thecowboy9698]

Right up there with: "I'm here for munhey"

[@navarrodelay6750]

I think dutch is a very complicated man, he clearly had love for hosea and Arthur when dutch himself looked good and had no doubters. I think dutch was always a manipulator but was still human but when hosea and Arthur died what little humanity dutch had died too.

[@MissWampire]

Exactly! He had no humanity left after Arthur died. Hosea's death was making him very very wrong. No guidance.

[@Spitfire_94]

​@MissWampire Agreed. Everyone seems to think it's a black and white problem where Dutch was just flat out evil for the sake of being evil since he was a kid. Dutch's VA mentioned that it took seeing Arthur dying at his feet for Dutch to understand that he failed the gang as a leader and Arthur as a father. He also said Rockstar may still have footage of Dutch weeping because he himself wept hard during the scene.

[@cadence4527]

We know Micah was in his ear early on. There are numerous camp encounters as early as Horseshoe where we see Micah buttering Dutch up. Horseshoe, Dutch is a bit more wary of Micah, but slowly we see that wariness disintegrate.

[@NikkolasKing]

Micah has zero involvement with the major scam in Chapter 3 with the two families. Dutch listens to Arthur and dumps Micah for Lenny for the trolley job, and also has nothing to do with Micah when they go after Bronte. Micah only really gets in Dutch's ear end of Chapter 5 with Hosea being dead and Dutch going crazy from stress.

[@MikatheVoidStar]

Even before the events of rdr2 happened, we hear that in Blackwater, MIcah is the one who encouraged Dutch to kill an innocent woman.

[@MikatheVoidStar]

@@NikkolasKing Not true. While yes, that's when ARTHUR was made aware of how involved Micah was, that's not when Micah got in Dutch's ear. We hear that in BlackWater, it's Micah that tells Dutch to kill an Innocent woman. So Micah was in Dutch's ear since the very beginning. Hell, that could have been the only reason why Micah even saved Dutch and joined the gang, since we know he had knew about Dutch's bounty, and he even held onto Dutch's bounty.

[@TonyG8992]

@@MikatheVoidStarDespite encouraging Dutch, even John said that that wasn’t like Dutch at all to do that. Not everything is Micah’s fault because even Dutch screwed over Micah in the end. Dutch was always a lying, manipulative piece of trash.

[@elerigwen8013]

1:09:53 i just realised no one’s really spoken about how evelyn miller treats the natives in comparison to dutch, it’s nuts that how even if you idolise someone you aren’t always like them, it’s almost as if he just cherry picks words evelyn’s written to power his fucked up ideologies, while evelyn actually lives by what he says

[@Coffee_Addict42]

you should do a video on how dummy thick dutch is, its very important to the plot

[@CynicGTA]

Arthur, Bill, and even Micah are much thicker tho 🤌🏼

[@Journey_to_who_knows]

I have a goddam GYAT

[@shariqhaider1225]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamwqqGdqK6bmNEsi=cFS7OsmhKW3cjVhv

[@mikelitorous5570]

@@Journey_to_who_knowsthat made me laugh way more than it should’ve ffs

[@Hocket]

from title alone i would say yes, after completing RD i noticed every lie or ways he would manipulate the gang, with his "if i could i would love to die, instead of this person if i could" and then on other chapters having multiple moment were he could do so but refusing to, getting multiple gang members killed in the process, but till the end he used that point, Molly also is a good example. i am doing a 100% low honor playthrough right now and its really fun to see these little one worded things changing meaning after you know the end of the game, a good example asw is the mission where you kill the Murfree brood at Beaver Hollow wen Arthur is talking to Dutch you can see like Dutch changing emotions in seconds to try to manipulate Arthur, first hes philosophical, then gets sad and tries to make Arthur focus on Hosea's death and not on how he is wrong, but once Arthur dosn't bite the bait he gets anxious and then gets out of nowhere mad at Arthur and kinda says hes being a traitor, and gives him a mission, completely cutting arthur and basically telling him to shut up, in seconds of conversation.

[@MissWampire]

Where can i find that scene? :)

[@Hocket]

@@MissWampire on the mission to find Beaver Hollow, first cutscene.

[@DopaminedotSeek3rcolonthree]

I have no doubt that he was. His childhood was one with a manipulative mother, he got in trouble with the law, and he developed a grandiose worldview where he believed for a while that he could change everything if he killed and stole enough. He wanted to be a revolutionary, and violent revolutions are unfortunately not won with the virtuous truth that is often appealed to... It's won with blood and deception. I think his "Decent into madness" was more of a lack of a sense of control on the situation, and with Micah on his shoulder, who was an even more insidious manipulator than Dutch ever was, simply because Micah *didn't care* about any kind of ideal.

[@Waluigilover]

Short Answer: Yes.

[@tobiasschulz4168]

Clemens Point after the fishing trip sitting in the boat revealed everything you need to know about him: I…. We will be fine! He uses the gang to his survival in the core. It is more complex but…

[@DerekGlenn-gj2js]

Thank you so much for your videos, they are what I look forward when I get home

[@CynicGTA]

Thats so humbling to hear

[@slump2p]

dutch turned on high honor arthur, low honor arthur turned on dutch

[@MikatheVoidStar]

The one thing that gives me pause about Dutch's head trauma, is just the number of times it is brougth up. Right after he hits his head, multipler times in the middle of them being chased, and after the mission. You don't bring up something THAT many times if it's not in someway important. While I don't think the trauma was the only reason he ended up the way he did, I do think it's what caused Dutch to act MORE aggressive, causing him to be more easily manipulated by Micah, meaning the hit on the head was a big factor.

[@TygerClawGaming]

Great video! I am plaything through the game for the first time myself and I don't think Dutch was always a manipulator, he would not have taken the patience and time to teach both Arthur and John to read and write so I believe he always cared at least on some level for the members around him. I think Arthur's increasing willingness to challenge Dutch combined with both Micah being in his ear and a growing desperation to survive are what ultimately caused Dutch snap. As you said he never really used Sadie to her full potential, he could've made her more valuable than Micah if he was always just about manipulation.

[@Regis1603]

You know Dutch is an awesome character when people make 1+ hour videos about him and his personnality.

[@justinbieber8028]

Jones

[@PumpkinPatchAJ]

Dutch is a narcissist, and narcissists don't like being doubted or challenged. Micah is like Dutch, and knew how to turn Dutch into his partner in crime by slowly convincing Dutch that Arthur, John and other gang members are against him and by gaslighting Dutch into thinking that one of them is a traitor

[@cadence4527]

A video suggestion: Abigail’s attitude, behavior and treatment towards John. She claims to love him, but constantly puts him down, even slapping him out of anger, but still professing to love him. Then her attitude in the epilogue. TagBackTV believes that it’s just because she’s afraid he’ll fall back into his old ways. But I wonder what a deeper dive might reveal in this. She just irks me.

[@pinkapollo5121]

she only irks you bc you feel like she should be what YOU would want out of a wife, not realizing she is the wife of JOHN, who is a MURDERER OUTLAW (aka, not a good person, in reality)

[@TurboImperator]

@@pinkapollo5121 Yeah I agree, not every second and character deserves a video essay. It's just looking at it too deeply imo

[@pinkapollo5121]

I agree, and I've noticed recently some people really hyper-anylaze games through the lens of their own bias, leading them to sometimes come to conclusions that aren't really even there. I understand games are an "art" and open to interpretation, but I feel like the Epilogue+All of RDR1 prove Abigail's love for John more than enough. @@TurboImperator

[@yousifali2779]

There is a new conspiracy claiming charles is the second rat,yk how he sacrificed himself to distract the law so the gang gets on the boat, the theory is the law caught him and he spoke so that they let him go, since charles also had no reason to stay loyal to the vanderlindes, and isnt it strange how charles was able to find arthurs body on the top of a cliff in a place nearly un reachable

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

Interesting theory but I don’t think Charles would ever rat on the gang

[@marbzirc376]

Welp, you're forgetting that Charles has always been adept at tracking.

[@Journey_to_who_knows]

In universe everyone has some sort of built in gps in their skulls like geese on drugs. Trawleny magically appears in every camp location even though it would be impossible for him to find out where they keep moving or how bounty hunters find you even in the glacier

[@YaBoiDREX]

@@Journey_to_who_knowsIt’s because the gang isn’t quite or low key at all. They keep making noise. That’s why the Pinkerton keeps finding them so easily. Not only that but Trelawny’s family lives in Saint Denis which it’s far from camp 2 and 3. Hell, he permanently stays with the gang from chapter 3 until 6.

[@wvguy7238]

Dutch ignored Sadie because she is a woman. Thats it. He just thought of her as another woman like any of the others.

[@lilben4184]

Based Dutch

[@CaseyAvalon]

My initial thoughts too.

[@DC_Warden]

I enjoyed the hell out of this video, but there is no point analysing any aspect of Sadie's character or story, she is one of the biggest Mary Sue's ever written. She's perfect at everything, everyone constantly compliments her and talks about how dangerous and awesome she is, there are no consequences or even a stern talking to for the way she acts. She's very obnoxious and annoying. Everyone feels like a real person in the game but her.

[@lilben4184]

Oh shut up you entitled White male, you're just an incel /s

[@Tortuga2223a]

I defintley was dissatisfied with chapter 6 and she wants to hunt down the last of some dead gang while they themselves are completely disintegrating, like Sadie wtf are we doing STILL hunting the odriscolls like bro come on just stop now. Didnt even have any development the first 2 camps she just sat in the back. She shoots and then doesnt even bother asking questions period, just foolish like wtf are you doing blowing our cover in a city where we are wanted dead or alive. Crazy.

[@cooperfuller9524]

I don’t know if I’d actually want this, given the incredible stories of both RDR1 & RDR2, but it’s fun to imagine if they remade these games as one merged game. A game where choices really matter, where countless endings are possible. A game where Arthur and the Marstons get a happy ending, or an even more tragic one depending on your choices. Fun to think about!

[@ImJustDixon]

Always love watching these videos they’re so entertaining and nice to listen in the background too!

[@psychosparten049.esquire9]

I hate the misconception that Dutch never cared for the gang.

[@Poppa_Capinyoaz]

Lol, why? Do you really think narcissists have feelings?

[@psychosparten049.esquire9]

@@Poppa_Capinyoaz he wasn’t always the way he is in either game.

[@StefanWinchester]

I think he cared very much at one point but over the years he fell in love with the idea of the wild west and the pure freedom that provided. But as civilization closed in and the law as well he knew his outlaw life was becoming Harder to justify and he began becoming a misguided revenge obsessed freedom fighter of sorts. But he was blinded by his crusade right up until he saw arthur dying and realized the real cost of his actions he killed his family his Gang and walked away too speechless and in grief to kill micah or help arthur. Then rdr 1 dutch is a shell hanging by a thread a cornered animal.

[@eduardoFIFA]

I don't remember when but he corrected himself saying "I am" then "we" are going to make it. He didn't want to worship Molly because he wanted to be worshipped. The dude sucks

[@backforblood3421]

Perhaps Dutch exposed toward the end of the game the way he'd been manipulating the gang the entire time in the way he pretended to care so deeply about the "cause" of the Natives while using the entire thing to get into Cornwall's headquarters and get the money, letting Arthur in on it to secure his help with the whole thing.

[@yaboicraigslist1871]

I love the content it's influenced me to start my 6th red dead 2 play through

[@EastwoodFPS]

It's kinda interesting that Dutch chose to listen to Arthur's advice on that trolley robbery. Dutch said they'd need another man & asked who it should be & Arthur said Lenny, Dutch then said, Not Micah? & Arthur responded it depends if you want a massacre or a payday.. & Dutch is waiting with Lenny. Not long after that all trust was gone. Think Dutch just became undone from stress & desperation as the walls were closing in. He may always have been a manipulator, but he may not have been the killer he became in the end towards the start of his outlaw days, he probably never faced pressure like this on the gang before. His acts of desperation only made the walls close in faster.

[@DaveEd2499.]

It’s Micah, it’s always Micah. From the start of the game, when Hoseah died so to did Dutch’s reasoning and Micah was right there to poison him further into his world view

[@La_Victoria1945]

Of course he was.

[@josipmarkovic3928]

We need rdr3 to answer is Dutch al ways like crazy?

[@sosleepy3333]

Hey if u are looking for ways to expand, and haven't done it already, u should do similar videos but for the borderlands series like u threw on the end here!

[@CynicGTA]

Ya think? Borderlands isnt really that big on lore and characters tho? I did have a few vids planned for borderlands to be honest. A massive series wide video and maybe a video dedicated specifically to Handsome Jack. But the recording needed for those two are gonna be quite some time still

[@sosleepy3333]

@@CynicGTA definitely! Ur topics and the way u explain them (even for RDR2 where I've watched countless videos of and beat like 4 times lol) and I think Borderlands is a great cross-over where they are completely different styles of games but weirdly like everyone I know of who is into RDR2 is also super into Borderlands. Obviously not AS much to talk about as RDR2 which is part of why it's like the best game ever made, but still alot of cool ideas in the lore especially as u said with handsome Jack. There's also alot of cool unsolved or not well known lore bits like who is tiny Tina's parents(alot of evidence shows its krieg) but unconfirmed I believe, etc. From both a viewer perspective, and also the youtube algorithm I think u can easily expand as long as u stick to single-player game story/ based video topics, other series too like the Arkham games. There many great youtubers who do full game retrospectives like Luke Stevens, or Whitelight but they focus more on the game as a whole and less on specific cool lore topics and theories

[@CynicGTA]

Yea i dont plan on leaving single player focused games as a topic. Funny you said the Arkham series. I was starting to boot those back up since suicide squad is right around the corner. We’ll see how that goes. Maybe just for even a small project in the meantime, going over Joker specifically in those games may happen. Mark Hamill KILLS that performance! I am going to branch out. Its just a matter of when and how. I mean if i wanted to i can put out a massive retrospective on the arkham knight and follow it up with jedi survivor, dead island 2, insomniacs spider-man & spider-man 2, tlou (1 & 2), any of the borderlands main games, jedi survivor, then do RDR1/RDR2 and Undead Nightmare. This channel is new. But ive been making content for years and have a lot of original gameplay saved. I just like to replay them and maybe even capture new footage to supplement what i already had. Will red dead stay the backbone? Im not even entirely sure. It may be, who knows.

[@chancellor1055]

Yes.yes he was.

[@joshbell1335]

Love your Chanel

[@matthewpinkston9437]

1st playthrough. Putting myself as Dutch. Id make the same decisions as he did. Gosh It kinda makes you love him. Also As Autur, when Dutch killed Angelo the way he did; made me back him even more. Just when I was losing trust in him. Honestly I love the way that situation turned out.

[@JRM92B]

He was and he had a huge ego.

[@thecowboy9698]

When Arthur said to Sadie before riding in the hot air balloon, he told Sadie: "What began happening in Blackwater began happening years ago... maybe... slow decline, I guess." I think what was happening was Arrhur was finally starting to see what Dutch always was in the first place, and deep down he subconsciously knew the truth, but denied it consciously, because he wanted to believe in Dutch, and the truth as to who and what Dutch truly was scared Arthur, so he chose to stay blind to it. You can have a random encounter with the blind man, and he will say something like this: "You are afraid of what you know." One thing I can say from personal experience is that when you care for someone, it can oftentimes blind you to their faults, and sometimes you end up wanting to see something in them that in truth just isn't there. And as far as Dutch, he was NEVER a good man. Good men don't rob from others. Good men don't murder others. To know whether someone is TRULY good or not, it boils down to their actions. No matter what people might try and say to justify what they do, their actions reveal who and what they TRULY are.

[@Requiemslove]

I just want to comment on the Dutch being a manipulator, segment. In short, yes I think he always was. But there's more to it than that. I don't believe that he "turns" on Arthur. That he meant Arthur any ill will or wanted him gone or out of the way. I think he becomes angry and resentful and feels hurt by Arthur "undermining" him, and at one specific point at least, he literally leaves Arthur, fighting for his life against an assailant with a knife. As the tell tale games like to put it, "Arthur will remember that". But again, I don't think he did that maliciously or that it was strictly planned. More that Dutch was by that point too far gone to see what's important. Everything was just "it's all falling apart, around me" for him at that point. No plans were working, they were getting no wins, and one of his most trusted men was constantly undermining him. So Dutch gave up on Arthur in that moment. I think we can tell that it was a temporary thing as well, by his reaction during the events immediately leading to Arthur's death. We can see by the fact that he's crying, has an obvious look of shock and hurt on his face, and won't even condescend to hear Micah's pleas to go with him, that Dutch comes to right before Arthur dies. And it hits him hard. I actually think more people would have sympathy for Dutch if we had a segment after Arthur say's "I gave you all I had" and Micah goes the other way, where we get to see and hear Dutch's immediate realisation that yes, Arthur's going to die, he may already be, and yes it's all fallen apart. There's no going back, he's failed. I think Dutch is both arrogant and prideful, but I also think that in his own way he genuinely DID want to fulfil his plan of getting the gang to a new place where they could start new lives, free of the "laws" and rules of the land they found themselves constrained to. He saw himself as the mayor or King or whatever else, of a group which gradually broke apart and died in spite of his efforts, and I think that wounded him psychologically.

[@andrewcastillo5003]

Wasn't rains falls in the first game in the cabin meeting

[@AsianMaui]

Dutch even though at the time was still abiding by the beliefs and ideals, Could have taken advantage of the situation by using Bronte to get Leviticus Cornwall off of his back at least for a while, and i do believe Dutch and the gang would do this if it meant that was their way out of the Cornwall issue.

[@nervosadustbolt9642]

There are only two outcomes for a person in Sadie's situation. You're either going to come out with a fire under your ass or you're going to let it eat you alive. While, you basically become a Catatonic Shell of what you once were.

[@FinalSonar]

No. He was a hurt man who kept on loosing people he saw as family til it drove him to madness.

[@RayAkuma]

Before watching: Yes i think so

[@uglyass9084]

I believe dutch wanted security of all things, he may have felt inferior on a soul level but he never allowed it to show. guy was fearless and yet very afraid of conforming to "society" and it's mental and physical enclosure

[@revanxl5612]

He's been one of the if not the main characrter in both rdr1 and rdr2. He NEEDS to be part of rdr3 in some form.

[@LoneWolf14740]

I wanna know what if hosea was at the showdown at the end between the gang his input wouldve made it so much different

[@tacticianM]

Yes he is to answer the question that is the title of the video

[@ghost_2095]

RDR 2 is one of the only modern era videogames who care for dialogues in other languages; Bronte's accent is always correct, albeit for a couple of times

[@sailordarkjupiter]

I'm a new subscriber to the channel and wanted to say thank you for this compilation. From the videos have watched, i just wanted to say you make great and interesting videos.

[@Tommyjonesccvids]

Bro I really want red dead 3 to come out after gta6 pls rockstar

[@bramdonbrutus3711]

I wished it hsd a mission dutch got kidnapped and we hsd to save him

[@TheMoviemaster666]

Dutch was a cult leader that was able to talk people into doing anything. Once people started to talk about issues Dutch, whose always been a psychopath but being in charge kept it at bay, started to lose it for real.

[@MilahanPhilosophersCorner]

I love that game.

[@l.tjustonsenack]

at 7:23 its not real lighting comeing tho the windows atlest it doesn't look like rockstar used real lighting idk maybe its me or maybe its the utube video or the game its only for one frame and the frame dosen't last long lol

[@mr.gjohnson4991]

I think they should do another prequel but it takes place with the much younger Dutch before he meets Morgan

[@gladiatorghostboy]

I think it was always a mask because in the game arthur john or i thi k it was hosea talk about the innocent girl dutch killed in blackwater

[@Catlover我爱猫]

dont ask me 💯

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of Was Dutch always a manipulator? Momentum 100

[@rockandroll0123]

@CtnicGTA Have you done a video on why Dutch shot Michah

[@KirtisPrintsStuff]

Would love to see a game that follows a young Hosea.

[@CharlieKelly-oq9vm]

Love all your videos

[@Low.honor-Arthur.Morgan]

W9ooooo

[@Westsideaviation23]

Dutch wasn't bad. His circumstances made him bad

[@YaBoiDREX]

What about the girl he shot in blackwater

[@Westsideaviation23]

@YaBoiDREX no body really knows what went down on that boat

[@YaBoiDREX]

@@Westsideaviation23 He definitely shot a girl in cold blood though

[@Speltric]

🦆🦆🦆🦆

[@Amateurboxer123]

i have been here day 1 of chanle

[@CynicGTA]

Prove it

[@Amateurboxer123]

I remeber when you only had like 3 or 4 vids

[@ThriceOver]

Can't wait for the Hosea game

[@terrytucker9564]

Absolutely love all your videos

[@Brandon48-v9s]

49:59

[@jwalton1915]

Yes 😂

[@agirlinabasementofyourdaddy]

Hey, I have been binge watching your videos for quite some time and although im not agreeing with everything you say and sometimes it makes me raise my eyebrows 😂 I enjoy them. So im definitely down for 3-4 hour long compilation video. Im working from home every single day and im lowkey running out of content to play in a backround while working… 😂

[@Sl1pperybastard]

yeah.