Was I right to give up FIT payments ? One year later what have I saved ?

[@richardbower7171]

Great viewing as always, Merry Christmas and happy new year to you all

[@davidianwalsh]

Hi Nigel, I have a 2.8kwp solar system (south facing on my garage) from 2011 which has already more than paid for itself, despite costing me around £11,000. Because the FiT payments were Index Linked I’m now paid 71.85p/kWh generated and 5.07p/kWh deemed export. The FiT scheme is also guaranteed for another 12 years! In January I’m having an additional 22kWhp of solar arrays fitted split between the east and west elevations of my house with a Sigenstor 32kWh battery stack and a 12kWh Inverter. I’m definitely giving up the deemed payments and swapping over to SEG.

[@TheRonskiman]

Very nice systems those, you'll be able to earn very nicely if you manage it correctly, hopefully your DNO doesn't restrict your export, although you may need to go 3 phase to maximise it, otherwise you will be export limited I highly suspect.

[@brianc5788]

Thx Nigel. Went EV after following you! Its 3 years already! Had solar, battery & inverter installed this year. So a another time to ensure I watch all your videos. Hope you & yours are having a great Xmas & wishing you all, a Prosperous & healthy New year.😁😁👍👍

[@Pgutube]

Meet Christmas Nigel. Great video as always. Keep up the great work

[@davidgates3498]

Thanks Nigel. Great content as always. Thank you. I installed 14 x 285kwh panels on South facing roofs in 2015. I have subsequently installed a Tesla power wall this year and 2 x 535kwh panels flat on the side of my south west facing wall. I receive 19p a kwh exporter on my feed in tariff. So no need for Seg for me. I hope to install more solar on a garage / garden office but have to negotiate with my wife 😂 Merry christmas

[@alancwright]

Merry Christmas Nigel. You probably used your car a little more this year which you haven’t mentioned in the calculations. I have done the same this year. I purposely charged my batteries in the summer and drained them in the evening and relied on solar in the day. I went onto the E-on Next export in February and asked for an interim payment, they sent me £899 a week ago, so definitely worth sweating those Pylontech’s a little 😅

[@EVPuzzle]

It's brilliant isn't it ? Free power is the best ⚡🥳

[@andycampbell193]

Thanks for the clear explanation Nigel. Im in the process of giving up the deemed export with my FIT license holder. Scottish Power. It’s been ongoing since Feb 24 and still not got to the end. They have been truly terrible😮, I hope your transfer process was better than my 11+ month escapade!

[@EVPuzzle]

It was ,very smooth just a gap of 3 weeks not knowing what was happening . Eon were excellent to be honest

[@cooperlara1]

We had problems with Scottish power too, we couldn’t get them to pay us for our FIT. They kept saying the meter doesn’t belong to that address!!! It took 18months for them to sort it, after sending people out to check and numerous emails/phone calls. And then the next year it started again the same problem!!! The meter doesn’t belong to that address!! We eventually chucked the stress card at them, which seems to have worked, but watch this space.🤔

[@andycampbell193]

@@cooperlara1 you have my sympathy. Nobody takes ownership of any issue. Take it easy

[@chrisjones6542]

I’m also with Scottish Power for my FIT, and was planning to switch away from deemed export this year (TBH I only found out that this was something I could do recently-sorry Nigel must have missed that one!) - in spring . Perhaps I’ll transfer my FIT to octopus before I switch?

[@EVPuzzle]

@chrisjones6542 I've left mine with EON but octopus are so good they of course would be good no doubt

[@alanwalker6185]

I wasn’t aware the export bit of the FIT could be given up on its own, Nigel, so that’s a good Christmas present for me - thank you! I have a legacy 4kWp PV system from 2013 that I get FIT payments for, and a newer 5.6kWp PV system installed in late 2022 that I get no export payment for. Part of my issue has been that I don’t have a smart meter as there’s no 4G signal where I am in Devon, and my erstwhile electricity supplier Eon refused to install one as a result. I moved to Octopus about 6 months ago, and they’re due to install a smart meter next month. It may not work as a full smart meter for the time being, but it will at least record exported electricity and hopefully allow me to get paid for it.

[@EVPuzzle]

Smart meter network doesn't use 4g it uses it's own network . I'm finding lots of people who think they have no coverage suddenly can have a smart meter. They have new extension aerial options that boost the signal too . Don't give up and keep asking

[@kimmeddies6689]

@@EVPuzzle don’t believe that is completely true as I am pretty sure that the smart meter’s use more than 1 “system” dependant where you are but yes it should be possible to have one

[@alanwalker6185]

Yes, I guess technically Eon stated that “there is no WAN”. Our neighbours have functioning smart meters, so I’m hoping that the one Octopus install will work fully, although it’s also got some thick stone walls to contend with. If it doesn’t, then I agree that a booster aerial may do the trick. Part of the delay in getting Octopus to fit it is that they wanted to do a survey first, but each time I’ve asked for a survey date they’ve replied that “there are no available survey dates”, to the point that I don’t think they actually have a surveyor in the region. They’ve finally agreed to install a smart meter without doing the survey, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

[@SteveG-1976]

Seasons Greetings to you and the Family Nigel. Keep up the Good Work! Looking forward too the New Year, and continuing my Eco Journey. Still not sure what too go for next. Heat Pump or Electric Car.....? Solar and Battery done.

[@JamsODonnell100]

Happy Christmas Nigel. Appreciate that you put all this information out there. I clicked to watch on Christmas Eve and boy soon clicked off. Foolishly I was expecting something straight forward, but no…it’s just all so complicated. 😠 (I would say it’s a bit of a mess - the circumstances in which we find ourselves , not you’re video! ) Hopefully I’ll discover the energy (!) to revisit at a later date. Thank you.

[@bryanlewens2068]

Fascinating stuff. I have just switched our 3 phase supply to Octopus outgoing. We have a FIT string of panels on each phase although only one gets the 2011 FIT. We are in the process of installing some more panels (ground mounted like the others) which we can connect to the grid but not allowed to export. We will also install batteries and I am hoping that they will allow us to power our house and EV on our new solar and off peak imports from the grid. Most of the existing power will go back to the grid on the Octopus outgoing tariff. I regard this as a calculated risk going forward. How long will Octopus continue to pay a fixed rate of 15p/kwh? How long before our DNO - National Grid will allow us to export some of our new solar to the grid? I assume by then it will probably be at variable rates for short periods of time. We live in the south west which according to the NESO is the least green area for electricity generation apart from South Wales. If electricity pricing moves to a regional system, will we be at an advantage or disadvantage? Merry Christmas

[@ilit5472]

I didn't realise that you could keep the generation portion and just drop the deemed export portion.

[@EVPuzzle]

Yup 👍

[@PaulRose-l4p]

Hi Nigel. Have bought a property that has solar and FiT. I knew nothing about the FiT until I found an old bill left by the previous owner and I wondered then about the deemed export. You have now answered a lot of questions. The only problem I have at present is that I am trying to convince Scottish power that I own the property and I want the payments to go to my bank account. At times it seems like pushing water up a hill with a fork. I intended to go completely to SEG but (when S.P. finally get their finger out) it makes more sense, for me, to keep the FiT and swap deemed export payment for SEG. Love the channel and keep up the good work.

[@EVPuzzle]

I guess you'll need to apply for an account to submit meter readings . How solicitors love it complicated house sales with solar you'd think they'd sort transferring FIT payments

[@Jaw0lf]

I doubled our solar that was on our East Facing roof, making use of the West roof, adding an extra 3.76kWH solar PV on our West facing roof. Having the Tesla powerwall I did the same thing of seperating the deemed as I had no payments for half of my solar. The powerwall knowing the pricing of 7p overnight and an export of 15p per kWh, it has also used a lot of extra power and sold more back to the grid. I had a few savings and used it to invest in my home and reduce our monthly payments, which are now under £100 per month for 12,000 miles in my EV, the heating with my ASHP and all of our other home use, which is high, around 27kWh per day before EV or ASHP added in! Merry Christmas Nigel!

[@nervousfrog101]

I have a 1.85kW array installed in Feb 2011 and a 3.6kW array installed 2023. Switching to the SEG became a no brainer when Octopus introduced the Octopus outgoing tariff. My deemed export payments this year would have been £40 instead I got £470 just for the solar export. Still pales in to insignificance when compared to the FIT payments as I get 71.85p per kWh so about £1400 a year. Depending on whether you include the FIT payments or not my total energy bill for the year including two EV's is either +£450 or -£970.

[@Demoulous]

Octopus really need to setup here in Northern Ireland. The market here needs someone to come in and disrupt it.

[@JohnSmith-xn3fr]

Fine, but the bottom line is : do you still pay for the electric energy for your home or not ? If you pay - how much across the year ? If you don't - how much do you get from your export i net amount per year ? Thank you.

[@EVPuzzle]

I think that's exactly what I covered isn't it ?

[@TimSedgley]

Hi Nigel great following your experiences over the years i too enjoy the benefits of solar and battery storage. Yes a smaller scale with a 3.9 solar array solis inverter 5.2 giv battery I’ve seen great savings. As always i would like to expand my system even double it to increase a benefit as I see you do. Keep doing the good honest updates all the best for 2025👍🏻

[@goldensun2707]

Very interesting. I think whether this is worthwhile depends on quite a few variables. We have 3.6kW panels installed in 2012 and only added a battery a couple of years ago, so although we weren't really measuring I am sure in hindsight that we were exporting a lot more than 50%, so with just that setup switching would definitely have been worthwhile once a 15p export option became available. (Well, at least after we got a smart meter which did not go backwards when the sun was shining!) Once we got the battery I was minimising export by various means to about 10%, so staying with deemed export seemed the safest option (we were also then on Agile, so often had cheap electricity, but it was not always predictable). However, we got an EV this summer and switched to IOG which made me reconsider as the electricity is reliably cheap. We are in the process of switching (although it has taken months to get sorted). My plan is to maximise export in the summer; (no more daytime washing on sunny days or diverting excess to immersion etc.) to get export % high enough to break even, but not normally planning to force export so no extra battery cycles. However, the bonus was supposed to be getting credit for export during demand flexibility (saving sessions), which I think is only credited if you are on negotiated export (on deemed only reduction in use/import is considered), although it looks like rates for this might be lower this year, so the overall benefit looks like it might be marginal unless/until we add more panels. Towards the end of the video you talk about switching back and forth. I assumed that coming off 50% deemed export was a one-way switch i.e. can't go back again. Is that not the case?

[@mikecharles1717]

You must factor in battery cycles will increase .Replacement of them will be sooner. Im one of the early installer's from 2011 ,and have followed your journey with great interest.Had Batteries installed in 2019 same type of system as yourself but only 9.4 and have been delight with it and trouble free it has been a game changer. There was very little viable /maintenance free options before that. Thank you for the quality content you loose me sometimes🤔 but I get 95% of it 👍

[@EVPuzzle]

I'm just making it up as I go lol 😉🫣 Yes battery cycles are a thing but I've sized this to out last my lifetime . It's really not a concern when I hear they don't drop below 70% capacity which will still be 20kwh

[@PJWey]

@@EVPuzzleusing but not abusing a battery is always best as you’re getting best value and the battery has a time related degradation too. Keep on going 🎉

[@panospapadimitriou3498]

thanks for so many i informations... i never had a deal with buy sell .. off grid means no push any hardware for anyone 3rd party.. but .. with the electronics degredation ratios i m thinking of my next project for my house to be some kind of deal..!!! batteries was the only way back then but summer in greece was more than promissing!!!! greetings !

[@andrewdeans2179]

Well done I used same strategy. But now on 3rd smart meter. Octopus puts me on standard tariff when not working. So trying get 4 Meter one that works as costing me . Enjoy your videos

[@geoffreycoan]

Similar story for me, my FIT generation is 16.7p/kWh, deemed export was 5.7p/kWh so I was earning about £500+£100 from my FIT array. I gave up the deemed export in August 2023 following installation of extra panels earlier in the year. Earned £1150 from grid exports over the year, more than making up the £100 I lost in FIT deemed exports, and resulting in an annual electricity bill of ~ -£200

[@robmog88]

Nigel, don’t you have to have a controllable battery so that you can set your export levels to maximise your smart export return? I have a four year old 4.8kw Moixa battery but don’t know if it’s controllable in that way, plus I presume it’s too small to get any benefit from moving to smart export even if I could control it.

[@EVPuzzle]

Yes I can control my export as needed

[@craigvaux619]

Happy Christmas Nigel. Octopus are changing the Outgoing Fixed tariff to Variable tariff. So my tariff that ends 07 June 2025 now shows ghe tariff name as Octopus Outgoing 12M Fixed May 2019. My current rate like yours is 15p /KWh but I suspect that like the import Feliexible Capped rate our future rates may get tweaked every 3 months. So it may be worth it for you to record your exports by the half hour to avail yourself the ability to analyse it as you might be better off switching to Outgoing Agile at renewal point. I don't think having given up the FIT Deemed Export you can ever switch back to it. Not having batteries means I cannot get Agile to work for me on export or import. Nadolig Llawen 🎄🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🎄

[@enyaq_gorm]

5p? Wow, my FiT rate is around 72p just now (installed in 2012).😮

[@keithjohnston1981]

Same here. But that’s the generation payment 72p. He’s talking about the deemed export of 50% of the generation. I gave up my 5p odd deemed export on my one array to benefit from metered export for both arrays and made more in two months than I made the whole of the previous year on deemed. And still get the 72p odd generation payment 😊

[@EVPuzzle]

I was late to the party

[@enyaq_gorm]

@@keithjohnston1981 good point, with an ev, battery and ashp we don't really export much

[@keithjohnston1981]

@@EVPuzzle I was prompted to relook by one of your videos I think. Definitely worth while. Charge cars and 15kWh batteries overnight at 7p and send all excess generation back to the grid at 15p.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

I don't have FIT but I do home energy efficiency surveys for a local charity and did one recently where they had the original FIT tariff, interestingly I didn't know you could give up the deemed export part of the tariff and keep the generation part to go over to SEG. Would it be worth them changing probably not as they will only benefit if they add more solar and there more cost effective things they can do like adding batteries of changing to a heat pump. Most people who have some investment in renewables are getting a are doing OK and not obsessed with maximising the return on investment. Keep up the good work and have a great christmas

[@EVPuzzle]

Every homes potential is different I guess but adding extra solar if you can really helps whilst export payments are healthy

[@geoffreycoan]

It all depends on how much of the solar you consume as to whether it’s worth giving it up the deemed export payments or not and that’s difficult to estimate for sure. How much the person heats their hot water (immersion heater), does the cooking, washing/tumble dryer etc during the day in the summer or not. If you give up the deemed export payments you can go back onto receiving them again after a month - I confirmed this with both my FIT supplier (Eon) and Ofgem before I gave up my FIT deemed exports

[@TheRonskiman]

Very wise words at the end, same route I went. 4 kWp FITS installed in 2015, get paid 18p for every kWh it generates. I was adding more solar in 2023 so did away with deemed exports in April 2023 when I added another 4.75kWp of panels. A few months ago I added more panels, now have 15.5kWp of panels. For the most part I was on Flux, and our gas and electric has been negative two years in a row now. ASHP next year and we'll do away with gas. As for switching export tariffs, much easier on Twitter (it will always be Twitter) otherwise you have to reapply and go through all that nonsense. I've done the sums and Flux is just not worth doing now, maybe you can gain a bit through the summer months, but I've now just decided to stick to Go, much simpler. I also added 29 kWh of batteries back in 2023 😁

[@WanderingDutchman]

The £630 is a nice 'Winter Fuel Payment'...😉 One thing missing from the calculation is the loss of interest on the capital invested in additional solar, inverter etc. Merry Christmas and an electric 2025. ⚡

[@EVPuzzle]

Plus the interest I'm gaining by having more savings in the bank

[@jezzaandrews1940]

You certainly seem to have found a way to make the most, on your solar in the summer👍 An air to air water heater would help to reduce your electric consumption. People should be careful on the size of their solar arrays, because, I'm lead to believe that any solar produced and sent to grid over 20% of the normal household usage, could be taxable? Not sure if it's true or how it would be policed!

[@EVPuzzle]

Yep seen that but feel it's aimed at much bigger installs . As it's not money just credit , I find it an odd one but you never know

[@themanofmead5273]

2179 is not 50% of 4559. 🤦‍♂️

[@tommytinkler1708]

What is your total cost on the whole solar systems and batteries etc?

[@EVPuzzle]

All covered in my other videos on payback, although ill be doing a video soon on which array cost the most Vs which has the best cost per kWh latest array cost £1500 to install

[@tommytinkler1708]

@@EVPuzzle I ask because 20k in the Q's over 20 years at the 14.5% average would have returned you over 330k, so would be interesting if a the Solar setup could match that return over 20 years.

[@MrBobitsabc]

⁠​⁠@@tommytinkler1708what does 20k in the Q’s mean? Over 20 years at 14.5% ?? I do not understand any of this, is it possible to explain please.

[@EVPuzzle]

Really not interested in comparable investments. This isn't a financial investment primarily. I'm more interested in reducing bills than Increasing income 14.5%? I love these high numbers that aren't achievable risk free

[@Ouvavou]

But how long will seg rate of 15p last?

[@EVPuzzle]

Another 12 months at least for me . I thought it was going to reduce in September tbh but feel lucky to have it renewed

[@Ouvavou]

@@EVPuzzle I’ve got 6 months remaining. My point was do you know what the rate needs to drop to for you to be better off remaining on FIT? Then the question is what are the chances of it dropping to or below that?

[@EVPuzzle]

@Ouvavou I was more afraid of the potential compound inflation increases making it look bad in say 10 years . There's no going back now I've given it up 😬

[@dogmangreengrass736]

if inam low user , and have 30 panels 440w and battery 13.5. surly its nit worth force charging battery over night at 7p.

[@pl9438]

Maybe factoring in the cost of your equipment will give a better overall understanding of your total cost. Without ROI, i can't see the benefit of this exercise

[@EVPuzzle]

I tend to laugh now at the predictable nature of those who comment asking about alternative investment strategies and the total cost of the install etc. I seriously can't understand the motivation. If you're not into solar and batteries or reducing your bills that's fine and if you spend your money differently that's great too but why the need to chase an argument about justifying solar and batteries through total costs when the only argument is whether you can make more money elsewhere BUT if the Install isn't about ROI then there's no point Regardless of the costs which are covered in other videos the impact of that cost is the same on deemed FIT vs SEG, this video is about that difference only. Surely you know that if you watched it?

[@waynecartwright-js8tw]

Still on my 2015 FIT , If I add more PV in 2025 its definitely something to consider. Since going 100% electric with 2 EVs more solar is my next investment.

[@rollls63]

Its been a no brainer for me too, even with only two systems. I too only have one system that is subject to FIT. Would I do the same again? Absolutely

[@johnpeters7003]

I am getting an EV in the next few months. I had considered moving to Octopus Intelligent Go but they said I would have to abandon my 50% deemed export. That’s irreversible. But I use everything I generate. The tiny amount I was sometimes exporting in summer now goes into my battery. So for me I think it’s not worth dropping the deemed export. December has been poor but things can only get better for the months to come.

[@EVPuzzle]

You only need to drop deemed export if you take an export tariff. Intelligent GO is an import tariff not export so doesn't affect FIT deemed export

[@over-engineered]

what about the deterioration of your batteries/panels! seems a lot of effort and investment for a few hundred pounds/year

[@EVPuzzle]

Lol add up those hundreds over 10 years and it's more than we paid . They'll last 20 years most likely or more Everything ages and wears but solar and batteries are going to outlast the kitchen bathroom, carpets , curtains , appliances and probably me 😱

[@Tony-fl3rl]

Qhat type of electrical heating have you got

[@DaveJones79]

A point you didn’t really make was that on the deemed export FIT you were only being paid for 50% of generation of your first array, but nothing for subsequent arrays’ exports. Now you’re getting paid for all your export on a measured basis. The gains won’t be as big for folks who only have a single FiT system, unless they export a high proportion of their generation. You’ve also added the garden panels this year which have increased export compared to 2023. I’d be interested hearing how your proportion of import/self-consumption/export has changed with your change in approach to load shifting. How has it affected your average import rate over the course of the year for instance, compared to last year? This month we’re averaging import of 7.84p on IOG with 8.1kWp South facing low pitch array plus 14kWh of storage and 2 EVs.

[@gardenogauge]

I thought you'd finally lost "the boys electric" but no 🤦‍♂️

[@EVPuzzle]

There's a great ' electric ' ding played by Will Lexington on the show Nashville . Id like to use that some day 😉

[@gardenogauge]

@EVPuzzle mix it up a bit! I quite liked the making plans for Nigel as a change 🙂

[@johnrush3596]

Merry Christmas Nigel. Complicated decision and it looks like it worked out well for yourself. I've had a think about this for our setup, we average about 2.3mwh a year export and at 15p = £345, for fit it would be 9mwh/2*.05=£225. To be honest, if I expanded our existing solar setup and added another array, I think we would go for seg, but that is dependent on getting a 3 phase unit for solar and battery so that all phases are covered. The other side is at the moment only a single phase is covered by solar, we will be switching that to cover two of the phases for solar in the new year as that can be done without having issues with the fit payments. As stated, not easy. Keep up the great content!

[@hayabond893]

You will be using £400 of that so called profit to pay road tax on your 2 electric cars April 2025 merry Christmas from the Labour government