Was it FORCED? House of the Dragon Episode 6 Review.

[@-Default.]

Alicent learning that the one actually good son she has is the one she didn’t raise (at least for many years) was brutal. Brilliant subtle acting from Olivia Cooke. Ser Gwayne's actor is really good too.

[@Mechataur]

@@-Default. The subtle shade Gwayne was throwing during that scene was great.

[@whispofwords2590]

I had no idea she even had another son. Was it mentioned before this episode?

[@-Default.]

@@whispofwords2590 he wasn't mentioned all of season 1 but he was brought up by Otto in episode 2 this season. He's Viserys and Alicent's youngest child who was sent to squire for his grand uncle Lord Hightower in Oldtown.

[@spunkush]

I loved his reaction to her when she prayed for his safe return. He's like "uhh yah sure". He has no faith in surviving this war

[@JokerPePe420]

She didn't raise anyone

[@123FireSnake]

pretty sure Deamon crying is because he got the chance to do what is right and comfort Vyseris not because the invalid Tully finally keeled over, he averted his eyes during the conversation with the lesser lord strong for that reason to try and preserve what little composure he had after waking from that vision

[@luizfbrcREACTS]

Or because Sor Simon mentioned Alys, thus confirming to him that she in fact exist and he's not losing it. Lmao And because he can finally regain control over the houses in riverrun, since the old lord paramount died. I think it can be both. The amalgamation of all those things.

[@VoFALT]

For real idk how Shad got that wrong anyone with an emotional compass could have picked up on that.

[@corvega_joe]

Are people legit confused over this? He didn’t give two craps about Tully dying. He just woke from a dream where he made up with his brother. Of course this crushed him emotionally when he woke up.

[@cusackak]

Teenage girls who are friends can be pretty touchy sometimes. It doesn't mean it's sexual or they're lesbians.

[@oswinhull4203]

The whole Mysaria/Rhaenyra thing felt forced. Really the entire Mysaria storyline has not been very compelling in my opinion. She is like a much less interesting Varys. I feel like they have really played out the whore with a heart of gold idea. Like going through the trauma of being a medieval sex worker automatically bestows some virtue on you.

[@princestarfy4098]

Rheanyrea this entire season: I am Queen, you should fear me!!! Why do you not respect me!?!? Whiteworm: You treat me as your equal. Me: Uhhh no she doesn’t.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

Yes she does she always go to her for advice. And let's not forget most kings or queens in her position would have simply had her killed after hear what she did to help Damon without even hearing her out. So honestly if you dont understand that than that's your lack of paying attention.

[@VoFALT]

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord If you think that's the same as treating someone as an equal you fundamentally misunderstand monarchy There was no setup for this romance and you are coping hard if you say there was.

[@princestarfy4098]

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord Being stupid and not killing someone is very different from treating her as an equal. Rheanyra has been stupid nice and stupid accepting around her this entire season. But she did not treat her as an equal at all. She demanded to know the way to sneak into king’s landing. She is giving her commands. Their relationship has always been though a hierarchical lens. There is nothing in the show that indicates that Rheanyra views her as an equal, or even wouldn’t immediately get offended at the idea of being an equal with a peasant. She is offended by the fact that the lords on her consul aren’t treating her as their better to the point where she sends Alfred likely to his death, and slaps another cursing him.

[@spunkush]

​@@princestarfy4098her whole war claim is birthright based. So why would she treat a peasant as equal..... Oh, it's cuz Mysaria is the stand-in character for the writers beliefs

[@makazolem]

​@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord the actor is so bad it doesnt really matter, we cant tell what her intentions are in any scene

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

It's been woke since the first episode of the first season. Whether by the race-swaping, the girl bossing or them telling us non-stop that pregnancy or having (ch)ildren is horrible. But back then it was acceptable woke cause the show had good characters and great writing and execution. Now none of the sharp writing is there. The kiss was essentially telling us "oh men are bad let's find ourselves in each other's arms. Yo yo Sisterhood".

[@Warren_B]

Season 1, episode 2 had turned me away for a bit with the eye-rolling line about men in the Realm by Rheanys. Then I came back and gave it a chance thanks to Matt Smith and Paddy Considine's performances. The scene in episode 9 was another bad mark, though. The character of Mysaria is the worst in the show and that kiss came WAY out of left field. The show has depicted Rhaenyra as always being into men, but suddenly, in her older age, she decides to get intimate with a woman who she should in no way trust that much. That scene, to me so far, was this season's "episode 9". It also feels like Daemon got neutered this season. Temper tantrums, Rhaenyra calling him pathetic to make him huff and run away, being led around by a witch, tripping out, and then finally bursting into tears and sobbing. For me, the Blacks storyline has felt all over the place this season, while the Greens storyline (for the most part) has seemed more cohesive.

[@knightheaven8992]

I was actually happy that Rheanys died didnt liked her one bit, she would always had those cringe one liners...

[@Likexner]

Its the classic bait and switch. Make a good season 1 to hook the viewers and then start morphing the show into a less-bean soap opera.

[@leonardoespino9780]

I agree. Started the season pumped up supporting the blacks… now kinda feel apathy to their cause (except Deamond of course) and just hope that the characters from that faction are done justice while some members of the green council die. That’s all my stakes now due to this season of story

[@bailey03]

Well Rhaenyra has always been promiscuous so not surprising but it did feel a bit forced.

[@alesksander]

Yea. Same i got no problem with that. She Its just ... well... horny and alone hehe. I got problem with whiteworm and whole trusting arch flawed AF. Funnily that "kiss" could be justified if in previous episodes they would handle "enemy spy" and proven "sellsword" as trustworthy. Furthermore, they could hint on certain tensions there. Emma can act so that should not be problem really. :d Well whiteworm actress cannot really acT, or she is directed poorly there.

[@fred.d352]

Alicent raised daeron in the books, he was even present in multiple instances in the red keep but the show changed it to make alicent look like a worse mum than Cersei

[@knightheaven8992]

Yup

[@Bigrago1]

Unless it takes over the show for the time being I'm just going to treat the kiss scene as a one off like Rhaenys escaping the dragon pit in season 1

[@knightheaven8992]

There is no doubt its going to be a love story.... specially if you know how Rhaenyra and Aegon fate in the end of the story that would be my theory anyway...

[@maliceinwonderland00]

I am convinced this kiss was Emma D'arcy's idea. In fact it's been said it was their idea! I liked this actor as Rhaenyra and let go that they were non binary for the sake of the show UNTIL NOW! I always had concerns from the beginning though that Emma D'arcy was going to insert wokism into the show and would become a problem. As I predicted they have become a problem and will ruin Hot D! Actors job is to act not write their own idea into the script! Just do your job Emma!

[@darken2417]

It was definitely forced. Her thirstyness arc should have ended after she finally got Daemon. Really messes up her character. And of course she is supposed to actually love Daemon deeply and this undermines that.

[@CharlesZane_]

The supposed curse behind Larys foot could have been Alys. That could also be why he doesn’t have any interest in Herranhal, because he doesn’t want to go anywhere near her.

[@VoFALT]

Or it could have just been a normal birth defect

[@CharlesZane_]

@@VoFALT of course. I’m just speculating since the show has already changed enough that anything could be possible at this point.

[@corvega_joe]

The lesbian kiss came from nowhere. Not once did they give off gay for each other vibes.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

I am convinced this kiss was Emma D'arcy's idea. In fact it's been said it was their idea! I liked this actor as Rhaenyra and let go that they were non binary for the sake of the show UNTIL NOW! I always had concerns from the beginning though that Emma D'arcy was going to insert wokism into the show and would become a problem. As I predicted they have become a problem and will ruin Hot D! Actors job is to act not write their own idea into the script! Just do your job Emma!

[@HasanAbist]

@@maliceinwonderland00 Sonoya said that Ryan Condal has been planning the romance since was cast back in 2020. The romantic pause was already written into the script and they were going to almost kiss. It would have been clear to us all what was about to happen but it would have been interrupted before they actually kissed. The actor’s idea was just to sped up the writer’s idea.

[@HighKingForrest]

I’ve noticed a good number of people were quite disgusted by such a display, seeing as it was immediately after one of them had just described the abuse she went through as a child.

[@HasanAbist]

@@HighKingForrest Trauma dumping.... I get it. But a great amount of people just wanna use this scene to justifying their clearly underling homophobia.

[@HighKingForrest]

@@HasanAbist I’m sure there could be a non-insignificant number of people doing that, but most of the actual criticism I’ve seen has been legitimate. I’d be on your side if there was better build up for the romance.

[@lanceforbus3094]

The lesbian kiss wasnt in the script it was improvised by the actresses according to a interview i read on the episode

[@InkyMuste]

Mega cringe if true

[@philhelm1318]

Sigh...

[@lanceforbus3094]

They were just supposed to be hugging and breathing until the interruption imo I think the kiss was better instead of listening them hug and breath for all that time instead

[@alstrong5115]

@@InkyMuste you cringing from improvised kiss is incredibly cringe

[@alesksander]

I dont belive that for second....

[@iliaponomarev1624]

> Seasmoke and Laenor The best I've seen: Rhaenyra saw Seasmoke acting weirdly lately and assumed that's because Laenor died.

[@gabrielhoelzle8476]

Laenor abandoned Seasmoke for years even if he's still alive so that arguably would make Seasmoke feel even more heartbroken

[@ChummyBoy]

Yes he’s dead, that’s the whole point of Seasmoke acting crazy recently, I don’t get why the nerdrotic crew is so confused by that

[@Mechataur]

Unearned and forced, in respect to it being Mysaria as depicted in the show. In the book, it is hinted at that Rhaenyra is bi and that perhaps Daemon, Rhaenyra, and Mysaria for a time all slept together.

[@marcussawyer4751]

Yeah, and this also kinda fucks up a motivation for certain future event between Daemon and Rhaenyra...

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Sound like Mushroom wrote this part. Makes me think we haven't seen him yet.

[@Darkrose1408]

Loser

[@Mechataur]

@Duke_of_Lorraine Probably won't see Mushroom, or even if we do, he'll just be a jester in the background. Then they can go all "Look he's in it, happy now?"

[@rickbartlett5445]

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@frankvandorp2059]

12:40 By having Daemon acknowledge his flaws the show is not playing defense for the men, because the point is literally that he's a very flawed person. His "good moment" is effectively that he realizes what a bad person he has been. Which is perfectly fine, but I guarantee you Rhaenyra is never going to have such a moment, because the show does not think she has any flaws seriously enough, for her to ever get so remorseful over it. Put simply, a positive moment for a male character is when he realizes how awful he is (Daemon with Viserys), a positive moment for a female character is when she realizes how awesome she is (Rhaenyra with Mysaria).

[@knightheaven8992]

YES this is driving me nuts, it isnt just me noticing it!

[@sureyawright]

2024 entertainment: women are awesome and everyone is gay

[@Likexner]

You summed it up well.

[@midknightgeek6629]

Forgot - Men bad 😉

[@leerass]

I am guessing you are not a gay man….and a man, so I guess you think women are awesome as well right?

[@greenknightofwar7024]

This to me was the episode 9 of this season. I was dumbfounded I had to rewatch the episode because I wasn’t sure if I was understanding things. But no, their was no lead up. I swear sometimes this show has excellent writing choices and sometimes they forget to turn their brains on when writing.

[@exoticcarfactsofficialchan7050]

Inappropriate, random and without any character development leading up to the actual interaction between the two females. Daemon and Alice have better chemistry and if the scene had happened between the two of them it would have made sense. Immediately after a character reveals that they were SA'ed by their own father, then gutted and attempted to be deleted, a person in power over them SA's them again. Grape is grape and that scene wasforced and disgusting. I'm done with this show. The Acolyte was coincidentally bad with this type of stuff because of inept writers, this is blatant. No excuse for that scene being there 👎

[@witchking2063]

Yeah its just a sign of thanks to come.

[@andrew20146]

Look, we found a snowflake!

[@Kevin-vc3jf]

the kiss does not even serve any purpose or even help in advancing the story. It will just end up as a useless detail that will be set aside and forgotten as the season progress.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

I am convinced this kiss was Emma D'arcy's idea. In fact it's been said it was their idea! I liked this actor as Rhaenyra and let go that they were non binary for the sake of the show UNTIL NOW! I always had concerns from the beginning though that Emma D'arcy was going to insert wokism into the show and would become a problem. As I predicted they have become a problem and will ruin Hot D! Actors job is to act not write their own idea into the script! Just do your job Emma!

[@originata3748]

I agree the show defends the female characters. Listening to those who read the books, it's a running theme for both shows. Alicent, Cat Stark and Cersei are warmer in the show than they are the books. I think it would enhance the story if writers left the female characters as is instead of loading up on scenes for us to sympathize with them. In HotD, we're made to feel sorry for Alicent because Otto used her to elevate their house. Alicent is a warm, caring empathetic person but somehow her sons are monsters and we're not made to feel sorry for them because of their parenting. Parts of the story just doesn't jive.

[@ile.spirkoski]

Two points of contention: 1) Rhaenyra and Mysaria - there are rumours in the books that Rhaenyra has a sexual relationship with Laena. So her interest in a woman is completely fine. *Except the timing.* Mysaria makes a traumatic confesses of her father repeatedly rape!ng her, impregnating and than trying to kill her... 🤔Was Rhaenyra turned on by the incest in Mysaria story? 2) The whole King's Landing starving doesn't make any sense. The city is landbound, not dependent on sea trade for food. It should be receiving food from the Crownlands, the Riverlands and the Reach... even the Stormlands. With that said, let just say it is as so... the city is starving. Why are the smallfolk grateful to Rhaenyra for some food? She is the one starving them in the first place, with the blockade.

[@witchking2063]

Haha, point 2 is so true, I really dont get it.

[@ijmorlop]

King's Landing is starving because it can't receive food inland nor from the sea. Though barely mentioned in the show, except for two instances. The breadbasket regions of Westeros are currently in a civil war, The Reach has been mentioned twice, with House Beesbury supporting Rhaenyra and as well as the Tyrells remaining neutral while their direct vassals are wavering, only House Hightower and i think the Redwynes are supporting the Greens. The Riverlands are devastated by the conflict between House Bracken and House Blackwood, while most of them are actually supporting the Blacks. The Crownlands are either devastated as well or supporting the Blacks. The Stormlands are very poor, economically-wise, barely capable of supporting themselves, while the Vale and the North are supporting Rhaenyra. That is why King's Landing is starving, there is no food trade as the whole realm is in civil war.

[@frankvandorp9732]

Point 2 could have been easily solved by having the Reach be in turmoil just like the Riverlands, I think that's partly what happens in the books. Lots of houses in the Reach declare for Rhaenyra and it's up to the Hightower host to pacify them. As for the people being grateful to Rhaenyra, that makes complete sense. The smallfolk aren't going to consider complex political realities, all they know is that they're hungry, and the people directly in charge fail to feed them. Then food does come from Rhaenyra, so now Rhaenyra is the person feeding them in their minds. It isn't fair, but it's how humans work. Starving out a city or castle during a siege to get the population to revolt against their rulers and have them surrender has often worked IRL.

[@frankvandorp9732]

@@ijmorlop Exactly that. They could have made it more clear though, include some lines at the council meetings about how food from the Riverlands can't get past Harrenhal, while rebellious houses in the Reach prevent most of the food imports from that area.

[@VoFALT]

You underestimate just how stupid people are and how easily manipulated they are.

[@frankvandorp2059]

I would argue this season is indeed more woke than season 1. But that's not because of a single lesbian kiss scene, it's because of a more overall pattern, and almost all of it is in the Rhaenyra/Dragonstone storyline: - Female characters are never shown to be doing unambiguously evil stuff, male characters are. - Women are depicted as more "peaceful" and men as more "warlike". This could be fine if both positions are criticized, but only the warlike men are criticized, the peaceful women are always depicted positively. Even when their desire for peace is unrealistic and results in disaster, they're never called out for it. - Several female characters are writers pets. Rhaenys never get called out for anything and they "wins" every discussion she's in with a man. Mysaria is unambiguously good and we're obviously expected to agree with everything she says. Both women regularly complain about men, how men rule and dominate the world, and how much better it would be if it were otherwise. This sentiment is NEVER challenged by anyone. - Rhaenyra is a really incompetent queen, but the writers go out of their way to obfuscate this, to paint her as a well meaning victim who tries her best, but is held back by men. Her male councillors are depicted as paternalistic and don't take her seriously. Even though their objections are generally valid, they always make them in such a way that they look like disrespectful jerks. - In many scenes, gender is unnecessarily dragged into it by male characters, to make them look more bigoted and unreasonable. Like when Alicent doesn't get to be queen regent, a choice that makes complete sense because Aemond is the heir, while Alicent has been a really poor councillor for the past weeks, skipping most meetings. There was enough ground for the others to reject her, but the writers dragged gender into it to make Alicent look more like a victim.

[@gamer-scp4854]

I wouldn't agree with you that this season is more woke than season 1 but it seems more forced because of bad writing. On your points about the Dragonstone storyline I think it doesn't necessarily project a woke agenda but the struggle of a female character in a patriarchal world (which the world of GoT is) -Yes women aren't shown to be doing evil stuff outright I do however think they are shown to be at least pretty bad people e.g. Alicent telling Aegon that he is a useless person who should just keep his mouth shut while he was looking to her for advice on how to rule the realm - the peaceful actions of the women are being continuously criticised by other people. Rhaenyra even gets called out by her own son who by all means is not shown as a bad or bigoted person at all -On the point of Rhaenys nevver getting called out for her actions (especially the mass murder in the Dragonpit ) is actually bad but I don't think she is necessarily been written in a way that she wins the few arguments she even has with men (I think she had like 3 real ones?) I mean she lost to Corliss on who should be heir to Driftmark (in general everything she discussed with him, he got out on top) and the others she as the pretty nice position of being a Targaryen Princes. Rhaenyra one the other hand seems not to be able to win any arguments she has in her smal council.The point about Mysaria being to easily trust... yeah can't really argue with that -Rheanyra being depicted as a wellmeanig victim who is held back is in my opinion also not true, I mean everyone with two or more braincells active can see that her actions are bad for her cause and her plan to go to war herself is just ludicrous (there is a reason we no longer send our country leaders to war). Also I think any one comes of as disrespectful if they call out their king/queen in open -That last point of yours I really don't understand, I mean the whole war is fought over the question should a woman be allowed to rule/inherit a Kingdom so gender was always going to be dragged into it, this being done by men is only logical because the only people on both small councils are men (except for Alicent and Rhaenyra). Also in the case of Alicent it was actually a question of what message will be sent if we (the Greens) give a woman the position of regent while waging a civil war against the chosen hier of the previous king because we don't accept her claim as a woman. I'm in no way happy about how the blacks are clearly favoured by the writers but I think the problem lies elsewhere (Rhaenyra being way nicer than in the book) but I don't think the problem would be solved by changing the points of criticism you have. Of course this is just my opinion and I don't mean to attack you, just wanted to share what my thoughts on your points where. (Btw. sorry for the bad sentence structure hope it wasn't too hard to read)

[@frankvandorp2059]

@@gamer-scp4854 - Alicent is being quite mean to Aegon, but it's not on the level of Daemon just ending people who annoy him left and right - Jace calls Rhaenyra out, but Rhaenyra responds that she was just "going after all options for peace", which Jace immediately accepts. So the show still depicts Rhaenyra as fully in the right there, she's not "called out" in the way I meant of the show presenting criticism of the character as valid. It effectively ends with Jace realizing his criticism was wrong and Rhaenyra is correct - Rhaenys is in several arguments with the men on Rhaenyra's council, and they all end with Rhaenys shutting them down, the men looking abashed, and Rhaenys walking away smugly and triumphantly. About the Corlys discussion, she doesn't "lose" that. She herself changes her mind. And it's in season 1 anyway, my criticism focuses on season 2 - I already said that Rhaenyra is an incompetent queen, the issue is that the show goes out of its way to make her seem sympathetic and her critics like a-holes, which tricks the audience into siding with Rhaenyra even though she's wrong. Just look at reaction channels, almost all normies watching Rhaenyra's council scenes praise her and declare her to be right. Contrast this with Aegon being called out by Otto or Aemond. They're also disrespectful, but Aegon is never portrayed as being victimized by his mean council who doesn't respect him. Rhaenyra is, constantly. - I don't know how I can explain it better. The point here is that Aemond is such an obvious choice for the green council, based on his merit, that bringing in the whole gender thing is unnecessary. The councillors could have said "Your Grace, you've barely been here and bring in barely any ideas, meanwhile Aemond just took one opposing dragon off the board, and he's Aegon's heir anyway". That would be the most logical reasoning. Instead, they go "you can't rule because you're a woman". And that's their ONLY reason, the more valid reasons are completely ignored. That makes no sense, it makes this decision about gender when it really is one of the less compelling reasons.

[@gamer-scp4854]

@@frankvandorp2059 yeah I can see where you are coming from and I don't necessarily disagree with you on a fundamental basis just in some details I already mentioned. It's just that I think those points were handled perfectly but I don't find them to be so bad as to call them the reason the show is woke

[@irena4545]

@@gamer-scp4854 I basically agree with your points but Rhaenyra being nicer than in the books or black being favoured may stem from the fact that the book is biased towards the greens.

[@LordBothaOfMemesalot]

It’s time to get honest. We coped when they had the Velaryons be black. It was good despite it but then they ramped up the diversity in season 2 and we tried to ignore it. They’ve smoothed the flaws out and victimized several female characters and now this lesbian kiss for no reason than to have it. It’s time to admit it. The writing is on the wall… they’re going woke.

[@mr.mccainsmonologue1456]

The Velaryons being black was a change definitely and not necessary but it does help to drive home Rhaynera’s infidelity. If they were white, it could be said that Luke and Jayce simply had the dominant gene of dark hair. With Laenor being black and Rhaynera’s kids being obviously white, it forces further the claim of the greens. So it was a change but it helped drive the story forward. That is I think what makes a good or bad change. Does the change help the story move forward? Also Valeria was across the narrow sea where a lot of diverse characters are from in GOT so it still kinda could make sense.

[@LordBothaOfMemesalot]

@@mr.mccainsmonologue1456 if you want to hold to this that’s fine. As I said it’s what I and a lot of people said to justify a DEI choice. But the truth is it was just a half step to where they wanted to go. Something we could explain and accept and then they can push it further. And they have and will continue to do so.

[@CT_Phipps]

The books have always been woke, promoting the idea of Medieval life being romantic as a horrible misjudgement of society and oppression.

[@philwilis789]

@@LordBothaOfMemesalotin actual execution i have no complaints of the race swap. The actors all are good and i forgot about the book description while watching the show. Would i prefer no race swap, yes, but this had no effect on my viewing experience

[@DoubleDwarf]

Someday you'll realise that G.R. Martin himself is pretty woke, you just didn't notice it

[@HighKingForrest]

Apparently HotD lost it’s most important creative (Miguel Sapochnik) just before the start of season 2.. And some cast members stated publicly that his absence would be quite noticeable. Perhaps this is what’s causing so many blatant plot issues.

[@BrianStewart126]

I haven't watched the episode yet but I just really do not like the spy lady character in general. I hope they didn't make her even more prominent. In any "realistic" interpretation of the setting, a character like her would have been killed long ago. Both HotD and GoT show us this, many times. Regular Joes get worse just for speaking ill of the crown, while her entire thing is actively trading secrets and engaging in treason, and she's not particularly good at hiding it. Her play at hiding Aegon in season 1 would have seen her tortured until she gave up his location, then she would have been killed. Instead she was paid off.

[@HasanAbist]

n any "realistic" interpretation of the setting, She had Aegon and she's no stranger to being torture. If they arrested her... either her savants would kill Aegon or hostage exchange situation. she would not be dead, Otto would not take that bet. Larys might....

[@SculptyWorks]

That kiss scene was stupid! It would have been stupid if a man and a woman had kissed like that out of the blue! It would have been stupid no matter who did it! There was no proper setup for it, there's been no indication that those two characters might have a thing for eachother; the occasion, the 'white worm' was just telling about how she was abused, and then ...in what world is engaging in some hot kissing the appropriate response to that? The hugging that started it out, yes, that would work. Frenchkissing?! No, why!! 😝 That felt like someone somehow managed to slip in some of their private fanfic into the script and nobody batted an eye at it.

[@Nagoalc]

The kissing scene came out of nowhere. It's almost as if the show writers decided to go with the classic: "all women are bi, bipolar or bisexual" joke lol

[@dominus1444]

Yeah this is really getting old that every single strong woman in media has to be gay. It's impossible for a strong woman to be straight.

[@knightheaven8992]

Also the whole Rhaenyra tirade she wanted to be Daemon, and a man

[@technofilejr3401]

@@knightheaven8992The actress who plays Rhaenyra identifies as non-binary. Wouldn’t surprise me if this scene was part of the deal for her to play this role.

[@Nagoalc]

@@technofilejr3401 that seems plausible, come to think of it.

[@lukeluke333lukeluke]

Two woman hugging always leads to kissing in the movies I watch ;) Ok in all seriousness. It was out of left field but it doesn't bother or ruin the character for me.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

It was forced and NOT in cannon! And it's been said that this was Emma D'archy's idea! I liked them acting as Rhaenyra UNTIL NOW! I always did have concerns from the beginning that Emma D'arcy was going to insert wokism into it and As I predicted they have become a problem! Actors job is to act! NOT put their own ideas into the script! Just Do your job Emma! Or quit acting! If you don't want to play a straight female Character than give the role to someone who does! Just do your job!

[@teongreen5254]

It was woke and pretty forced. There is no way she would just kiss a random woman. She was into men her whole life.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

I am convinced this kiss was Emma D'arcy's idea. In fact it's been said it was their idea! I liked this actor as Rhaenyra and let go that they were non binary for the sake of the show UNTIL NOW! I always had concerns from the beginning though that Emma D'arcy was going to insert wokism into the show and would become a problem. As I predicted they have become a problem and will ruin Hot D! Actors job is to act not write their own idea into the script! Just do your job Emma!

[@timscarberry2778]

I think Shad is being to generous to the second season, it seams most of the good story telling and character development from season one is almost completely missing from season two.

[@Robert-le3hi]

The feminist twist is obvious. Daemon can't even rally armies on his own and he's supposed to be the most experienced general of the 7 kingdoms. All the women are portrayed as peaceful, open to dialogue, or victims of men, while all the men are warmongers and impulsive.

[@amirhossein1382h]

My brother they've shown and addressed many times that characters such as Alicent and Rhaenyra have made many mistakes ​@@Robert-le3hi

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

​@@Robert-le3hiisn't that how it was back in the day? Why would the women be war hungering? Does reality offend you? And that lady is whitch she's not just some rando women my guy. I would also be going to her for help. She can literally see in the future but your so sexist you see going to her for help has a bad thing?

[@VoFALT]

@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord No, women were just as blood thirsty as men. Them being peace-loving is just a sexist trope that unfortunately the writers have embraced.

[@mrchambers31]

And the show is half way finished yet not even a quarter through the book story

[@doge050]

It was always woke if you read the books they made all the female characters saints compared to the books

[@danyyeltr4803]

and make Daemon a more conflicted not to be trusted murderer instead of the rogueish loyal warrior

[@Wustenfuchs109]

Huh, how the definition of "woke" changed over the years... now it means "what ever incels don't like".

[@MundaneThingsBackwards]

@@Wustenfuchs109 Funny how you complain about a definitional changes while bringing up THE most useless buzzword in the English language as an insult. You are the peak of human intelligence.

[@Rodrigo-n4o]

Making the Velaryons and grand marster Orwyle black was also such a dumb move. It completely takes me out of the show even though I think Corley’s actor’s acting is pretty good overall. The grand maester actor is completely unconvincing for me though.

[@Don-Scrima]

@@MundaneThingsBackwards That was a huge non sequitur.

[@vl4581]

They've been trying to go woke for a while. We just cared about the characters and gave them a pass. The more I watch the more annoyed I become. Daemon wasted for an entire season in visions. The pace is too slow and the more I watch the less I care about either side (should be the opposite). Young Rhaenyra bought older Rhaenyra a lot of likability but she's already used it all up.

[@samuelpatton5148]

Daemon will be the star of season 3

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

How is he being wasted his character is being developed the most?

[@ViolentMessiah666]

To be fair he's off page for this part of the story so they had to either invent something for him to do or bench him for most of the season, personally I don't mind them flushing him out but I get why people want him involved in the main plot

[@vargr2089]

That scene made me done with Rhaenyra - the writers don’t know what they’re doing with her. I’m still loving Daemon and Jace though

[@ChummyBoy]

I have a feeling they know exactly what they’re doing and we just don’t understand yet, I think this is leading to her dying bc of her weak leadership and mistakes. I could be wrong though

[@cian239]

Jace’s actor stinks and he’s not getting a lot of screen time

[@vargr2089]

@@cian239 Why? - his scenes have been great

[@frankvandorp9732]

@@ChummyBoy I used to hold out hope in the past, whenever they changed Rhaenyra's character, that it was all in service of making her arc later in this story more impactful. I don't think so anymore. They passed up too many opportunities to make her an interesting character, it happened too often that they went out of their way to rewrite the story to make her look more sympathetic and morally righteous. I don't think this show is going to end with the viewer looking back on it and realizing how Rhaenyra got doomed by her own mistakes. I think the message at the end of the story will be that Rhaenyra was a great person and would be a great queen, but she was held back and sabotaged by all the evil men in the male-dominated world, and that's why everything went sideways.

[@rockerslosangeles4184]

I felt the same way about the lezbo scene. Just didn't translate well with Rhaenyra's story so far. Honestly felt like wokeness for me and hope there aren't anymore like it with other characters.

[@Grandwigg]

I'm enjoying seeing Shad excited to see how the show will handle the fallout from certain decisions in this show (As opposed to stunned angry and appalled). It's a shame I have effectively zero interest in this series. The books and show's tone and content just aren't my thing. It's a shame that quality writing seems to be on things that are darker and focused around intimate relationships, deception and backstabbing. I know it's unrealistic for characters to be good all the time or things like that, but I prefer my leisure time to be used on things less likely to make me angry or depressed and such.

[@jonashartman3059]

Agreed! I wish we could get good and complex writing again for series with clear, defined good and bad factions and morals. You can do that and still have complex stuff. I’m so tired of this dark fantasy stint, let’s get some more high fantasy!

[@ThinkBigBoat]

Hey Shad! I studied Japanese language and literature in college because I love in-depth literary analysis. Further, this is the reason why I gravitate towards your channel among others like EFAP, Nerdrotic, Supercuts, etc. In other words-please deep dive into the details !

[@ViolentMessiah666]

It felt forced to me, in the books she's either bi or pansexual (unreliable narrator so hard to say for sure) & Valyrians did used to practice polygamy but that got abolished once the Targs came to Westeros (part of their deal with the Faith of The Seven known as The Doctorine if Exceptionalism that acknowledges Targs as better than normal men because dragons so they accept them as rulers). They haven't done a good job with the setup or execution for any of this. Everything Mysaria related is weak, the writing protects both of them too much, she should still be locked up for selling secrets to the enemy but now she's cheerleading for Rhaenyra & kissing her? Definitely the weakest part of the show. Everything else is pretty damn good, very enjoyable episode but they can't keep Daemon on pause much longer

[@frankvandorp2059]

8:13 If it's just "Rhaenyra making excuses for herself" and not "the show defending Rhaenyra", then the show would have other characters call Rhaenyra out. But she is NEVER called out. Instead, any time she is even criticized, the person criticizing her is depicted as unsympathetic and disrespectful, and Rhaenyra's answer usually sounds wise and noble and will leave the other person in abashed silence. The scene where she came closest to being called out was the one where Jace criticized her for being absent, but Rhaenyra even "won" that one, as Jace immediately accepted Rhaenyra's justification without any further quarrel.

[@knightheaven8992]

Absolutely the show has been pressing a lot the idea, they are only criticising her, or being condescending to her because she is a woman... even though she has done tons of mistakes, that got two important people of the blacks killed... not only that she is only seem to be effective and successful when she does it with another woman... This season what goes on with Rhaenyra has been the worst part of the show.... it would have been much more interesting and better writhing if she had the expected attitude we thought she would have at the end of the last season...

[@Quiem88]

Keep in mind that she IS the queen, nobody will ever criticize her in that way, at least not in her presence. While she was gone to the Red Keep to speak with Alicent, every vassal of hers was displeased and they were voicing their concerns in the council on Dragonstone. Jace tries to reason with her, but what can he do? He is just the prince, the queen has the final word. I do wonder if some of her vassals will betray her at some point for these reasons, but at the moment they are too underdeveloped in the story to matter. If we ever see one of her vassals getting more screen time, beware :)))

[@frankvandorp2059]

​@@Quiem88 You're missing the point. Of course you can't be too critical of the queen without repercussions, but my point is how the SHOW depicts it. The show depicts it as sexist men disrespecting a wise queen because she is a woman. Not as an arrogant queen shutting down wise advice because she refuses to hear the truth. They could have given us scenes of the councillors without Rhaenyra present, discussing how unreasonable she is, how it led to disastrous setbacks on the battlefield, and how to approach her and get through to her. That's also a way to "call out" a character for the audience, so the audience will at least consider the perspective of her critics. And the next scene, they could show these well-meaning men respectfully but insistently trying to get the message through, maybe have them get rightfully frustrated when she gives another non-answer, and so on. There are lots of ways how you can show Rhaenyra's behavior in her council as being completely unreasonable and arrogant, even though she is the queen. But instead, they depict the councillors as the disrespectful bad guys who just don't accept women. Also, all these councillors feel like the same person. There is no variation in their characters, they're all just generally unlikeable bores. It probably would help the audience empathize more with them if they had been characters instead of plot devices. Have one be patient and kind, the next aggressive and brash, another quiet and sarcastic, and so on. Instead of all interchangeable "men who like war and don't like women".

[@ChummyBoy]

wtf are you talking about? Her entire council questions her and argues with her throughout the show, we are supposed to see her as a very flawed leader

[@SpiderboyN2Jesus]

How would the dragon know if Laenor is alive? They haven't seen each other for years. For all the dragon knows, Laenor *is* dead. They've never shown the dragons and their riders forming any king physical or magical bonding ritual before; they just show someone hopping on a dragon's back and issuing commands and not being killed by the dragon. Seems more in line with breaking a horse to me 🤷‍♂. And I don't see Daemon crying after learning about Lord Tully death to be about that, but rather about the dream about finally comforting his brother about his wife and son's deaths--which had been interrupted by the news about Tully's death. And I didn't see Rhaenerya complaining about her upbringing as necessarily shifting the blame. It could be, but she didn't rail against her dad for not teaching her, she just regrets not ever gaining that knowledge. I think that could go either way, considering how she worded it, imo. And I don't have a problem with her getting close to Myseria (the White Worm), either. It makes sense that they would connect, imo. I just don't think that equals sex or romance. If anything, they should be like sisters, or just close friends/confidants. I think their connection was done really well, it only got weird when they held the hug for so long... and then went off the rails when they started making out, out of the blue 👀.

[@ethankendall9499]

Concerning rules of dragon riding. Those of us who have read all the books still dont know the answer to that

[@nick_at_knight]

I won't be watching anymore. The story's slowed down tremendously, the diversity has been cranked up to 11, and now a forced lesbian romance between the two 'girl-power' characters (Mysaria not even being well-acted or written enough to justify her prominence imo)? Season 1 was great, 2 started well, but it's lost me. I can see the direction House of the Dragon is going and I'm not interested.

[@irena4545]

It's not about the writing of Mysaria but of Rhaenyra. The whole season, Rhaenyra is getting more and more frustrated about having to sit at home and do nothing, her council opposes her, her husband has abandoned her, her son questions her decisions, her plan with the dragonseed misfired terribly.... only Mysaria is telling her what she wants/needs to hear, acknowledges her authority, supports her agency. Is her support genuine, or is she merely looking for a place in the sun? Did she share her background information as a show of trust, or did she pull a Larys like in that scene with Aegon? I still can't decide if those two scenes were meant as parallel or opposites, but I can definitely see where it was coming from.

[@xenomorph6599]

It was going so well but then in this episode they were milking the daemon dreams thing like at this point can he have some character development OUTSIDE of a hallucination, through character interaction PLEASE. Can he figure out what to do WITHOUT just asking a shady witch who just so happens to know everything he needs advice on magically. The blacks' whole conflict trying to find a rider for Seasmoke was their dilemma for the episode and seasmoke just breaks out and finds a rider itself, no effort, was able to just find a bastard to ride it in the expanse of the whole world since it's not like a dragon can use logical reasoning to track down bloodlines and all that. Then just rhaenyra gay scene at the end out of literally nowhere and for no reason after her subordinate literally just told her she has trauma from being sxlly abused. The ONLY scenes that were good were with the greens, particularly aemond expelling alicent from the council and the smallfolk getting restless. At this point I'm team green just because the green side of the story still feels grounded and politically interesting Even if the show continues to fumble I'm glad we had season 1, with viserys. The sxxual stuff wasn't for sexposition it served a purpose and wasn't for gratification or shock value like they're now doing in this season. We had close attention paid to accurate depictions of historical medieval elements. We had viserys. We had tight dialogue. The only thing that was weak was the crab eater like that felt random and like it went nowhere, but it still did serve a purpose and not really a big deal. (Oh, and rhaenys killing hundreds of civilians for visual spectacle that was terrible lol.) The cracks are widening too much now though, I'm bowing out now so the first season isn't ruined for me like game of thrones was. (I miss villains like tywin lannister)

[@knightheaven8992]

I also dont understand, why he trust that which so much, it is a bit weird...

[@bradyseiders9987]

The actress who plays Rhaenyra is a lesbian in real life so was probably more than willing to kiss in the scene.

[@HasanAbist]

They are nonbinary and they are an actor, their willingness to kiss any gender is not define by their sexuality.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

I am convinced this kiss was Emma D'arcy's idea. In fact it's been said it was their idea! I liked this actor as Rhaenyra and let go that they were non binary for the sake of the show UNTIL NOW! I always had concerns from the beginning though that Emma D'arcy was going to insert wokism into the show and would become a problem. As I predicted they have become a problem and will ruin Hot D! Actors job is to act not write their own idea into the script! Just do your job Emma!

[@HasanAbist]

@@maliceinwonderland00 The kiss was scripted. You're finding a reason to defend your homophobia. Sonoya said that Ryan Condal has been planning the romance since was cast back in 2020. The romantic pause was already written into the script and they were going to almost kiss. It would have been clear to us all what was about to happen but it would have been interrupted before they actually kissed. The actor’s idea was just to sped up the writer’s idea.

[@maliceinwonderland00]

@@HasanAbist Laenor was gay and I had no problem with that because it was in cannon and part of the story. It's about THIS DID NOT BELONG! Rhaenyra is not a homosexual. It's misrepresentation for pandering and it's not the character. It does not need to be inserted we have plenty of gay characters in the books already. If it's not part of the story I will not accept it PERIOD!

[@kevinc233]

I called this early in the episode and then in that last scene as soon as she told her her sad story about her father raling her, I knew it was about to happen. Why do they feel its necessary to do this?

[@ambientgaming3681]

Yeah I personally wouldn’t say woke, but why make her make out with someone after telling an SA story?

[@-Default.]

So awkward too as they have zero romantic/sexual chemistry. It was as if Daemon and Simon Strong started making out. I actually laughed which I'm not sure is what the show was going for

[@KamalaKackles]

They want to normalize it.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

It's because people are just bigots everything gay or black is woke to them and they don't like it.

[@mike1010011]

​@@KamalaKackles Bingo

[@marcussawyer4751]

She clearly was part of the plot to save Laenor; Rhaenyra straight up says the sea is a way out and has a discussion with him right before the event happens... what i think might be the case is that Laenor might have died(let's be honest, he was pretty careless) after all of this time and Seasmoke felt the bond fading. Rhaenyra saw the dragon behaving strangely and assumed something happened...

[@justincarter1217]

I think sea smoke was waiting for laneor to come back after all these years and along the line laneor actually did die and when he felt that connection leave then he went after alyn

[@darwinodriscoll7750]

Leanor is mostly dead but what was the fucking point of keeping him in the show if he was going to die just like he does in the books 🤔🤔👀

[@BlackQback]

Well, Rhaenyra agreed to the plot. It was actually Daemon who argued to let Laenor go - feel free to rewatch the scene (and they haven't said it in the show, but it would totally be in character for Daemon to spare Laenor out of respect and in return for Laenor swooping in and saving Daemon's life back on Stepstones; on top of it, Laenor was a dragonrider, and a brother to his late wife, uncle to his daughters), while Rhaenyra would've been fine with killing Lenor just to get Daemon. BTW, I don't know why Shad is making such a fuss about Daemon killing a guard napping on duty, when the show is set in (pseudo)medieval era, and Daemon is, after all, royalty. Should he had someone else provide a (fresh) body, and then it would've been fine? Of course a member of his family matters to him 10^100 times more than some nameless guard, who will never amount to anything in that world, except perhaps die of some awful disease. He didn't even kill him for fun, torture the guy - it was one precision strike and one so insignificant (that we don't even see his face properly) guard fewer... and off Leaenor goes to sea and battles! Compared to what real kings, queens, nobles from antiquity to 20th century did to "smallfolk" - that was nothing.

[@marcussawyer4751]

@@BlackQback You need glasses... Rhaenyra is the one who starts giving a speech to Daemon about Water being a way out and Fire being a thing of the Targaryens. Daemon simply goes to Laenor's lover and tells him what to do, giving him money so both of them can get a new life on the other side of the narrow sea.

[@BlackQback]

@@marcussawyer4751 Not that scene. But even there, it's about Daemon thinking that it's better to go away (perhaps to Pentos), like Valaryons sailed away (and then they philosophise about fire being prison, and they have to burn together). It goes in sequences. First Daemon tells her that they can't marry unless Lenor dies. She replies "I know". (other stuff happens) Then Daemon comes up with the plot with Carl (I can't with spelling all those names...), kills the guard. Lenor and Carl fight, and there is a voiceover of R&D. She says "I do love Lenor", and there it is - Daemon: "Then grant him this kindness. Set him free." Case closed.

[@frankvandorp2059]

Shad, about "women being depicted as awful as the men", that's how you perceive it because you watch a show very differently from 99% of the audience. You think about it deeply and consider the wider implications of a character's actions. But the general audience doesn't think like that. Rhaenyra has done a lot of selfish, irresponsible things, but it's NEVER immediately obvious to a casual viewer that she's selfish or irresponsible. You have to sit and think about her actions in the wider context, before you realize they're bad. And because Rhaenyra also NEVER gets called out for her actions by another character, the general audience is never even going to consider the possibility that she might be selfish or irresponsible. That's the difference with Daemon for example, who gets called out for his evil actions all the time, it's what his entire arc is about this season. That's where the double standards are.

[@knightheaven8992]

couldnt agree more

[@technofilejr3401]

Yep. Presenting your kids from another man as your husband’s children when it’s obvious to anyone that they are not. Supporting the murder of your husband’s uncle because he dared to tell the truth. Rhaenyra has done some despicable crap.

[@bagggers9796]

If general audiences don't even think about the basic implications of a character's personality or actions, then general audiences don't matter.

[@vanessalore9942]

That’s not totally true. They have Jace calling her out, they have her council calling her out, they have Corlys calling her out. She looks weak as hell and I can’t tell you how many women are pissed that they’re making her look that way. So it’s a matter of perspective I guess.

[@frankvandorp2059]

​@@vanessalore9942 When Jace "calls her out", she just responds that she was "seeking every avenue for peace", and Jace then immediately accepts that. So Rhaenyra "wins" that as well, and is depicted as being in the right there. There is NEVER a scene of someone criticizing Rhaenyra where the writers don't immediately provide a justification for her. Rhaenyra is NEVER called out for any of her moral shortcomings this season. Probably also because she doesn't have any, where she did have some in season 1 (but she isn't called out for those anymore either).

[@mr.s2005]

still a lot of good acting and writing so the wokeness doesn't come across, even with the behind the scenes opinions. Though at the same time, never got the sense that Queen Alicent was just a pawn for the male Hightowers just to secure their position and the throne for themselves in the book. Yet the series is trying to make both Alicent and Rhaenyra too innocent in this war, I mean they seem to imply Alicent wouldn't have staged the coup if she actually understand what the king's last words meant. Making Rhaenyra have no idea what her uncle/husband meant about getting revenge for her son just seem off. Its just what I got from the info from the Novels, the situation spiraled out of control because of everybody's actions, both women and men. That's especially comes out (spoiler) when Rhaenyra finally takes the Throne and just rules as a tyrant which of course leads to her having to escape the city

[@MikolajKnas]

Funfact. This kiss was not in script. It was idea of actresses. I admit, I cringed a little when Mysaria said she didn't trust men... but then again... Her father, the man who should have been the first man the child had contact with, cruelly abused her in the worst possible way and then mutilated her. I think that in such a situation her prejudices are understandable. She came across an incredible monster at the very beginning of her life. What I liked most in this episode were the scenes of Larys and Aemond with Aegon, the Green Council and the march of the Lannister troops. Jason even took the lions XD. I bet he feeds them Tully trout. I think Rheanyra is slowly showing her dark side. She slapped the counselor, reads about Visenya and tries to cosplay her... This can't be the beginning of something good. Even Jace pointed out to her that he hoped she wouldn't follow Visenya's example, and Rheanyra didn't see anything wrong with that. I have still hope, that she will become more ruthless, even cruel, under the influence of loss and fear. Like in the books.

[@knightheaven8992]

But in the show slapping the councillor wasnt seen as dark side, but as a bad ass moment for rhaenyra... at least is what i percieve what the show is trying to tell me...

[@MikolajKnas]

@@knightheaven8992 It was clearly cruel. Even Jace asked her why she did it. And Rheanyra's answer is even more cruel. Rheanyra says she did it because they "forgot to fear her," but that forcing respect through violance is either tyranny or a pathetic show of weakness. For me, these are the first signs that Rheanyra will go in a more immoral, cruel direction. But we will see. Maybe writers aren't that subtle and it was as you say.

[@MikolajKnas]

@@knightheaven8992 If you look at the great Targaryen kings... they never slapped the lords because they opposed them. It's pathetic. It's showing your own weakness. Jeaherys, Aegon I, Daeron II all swayed the lords to their will with subtle promises of violence hidden within words or wisdom. Not by slapping. Rheanyra in this moment is pretty much self-destructing.

[@applegeepedigree]

Rheanyra having faults is a good thing. The last thing we need is a 100% clear good guy, and I have never in my life met a real person that was 100% always right.

[@MikolajKnas]

@@applegeepedigree I agree

[@rohitroy2687]

Mysaria's actress is not great, and Rhaenyra's actress isn't great with sex scenes (the Daemon one last season lacked chemistry). The bare-bone writing of Mysaria's storyline *could* have worked, but for the handicapped acting skills of the actress. And if there is a large enough number of boats, that plot point could work easily. How many guards would you need to patrol the entire coastline? And how would you keep these guards safe from a hungry mob? As to who finds them first, don't tell me you've seen a guardsman work harder patrolling coasts far from the city than fishermen whose livelihood (and at this point, lives) depend on fishing early. I have no doubt fishermen would be the first, if not the first couple dozen, men who see the supplies.

[@gabrielhoelzle8476]

She's just too cool to be horny. I can respect that 😂

[@irena4545]

Yeah, Mysaria's actress basically needed to be female Larys (even though with her, there is a possibility that it is not all just manipulation, so perhaps it helps that she comes off as potentially honest). Agreed 100% on the boats. There was no way the news could have been contained ("Someone always tells") or claimed by the Greens as their own feat, people aren't stupid (how would the Greens arrange for a ship delivery when there's the blockade? Why would they send boats without crew and with "wrong" flags in such numbers?) In fact, attempting to take the goods or spin some tale would probably make the matters worse for the Greens, as the word of mouth would see them as thieves or liars and set the public opinion even more against them.

[@frankvandorp9732]

I disagree, this storyline for Mysaria couldn't have worked at all, it's a bad storyline on a conceptual level and in their implementation, her scenes are badly written as well. She's forced into situations by contrivance, the trusting relationship she has with Rhaenyra isn't built up at all, her lines are all terrible and either serve to remind the viewer of her backstory again, or they serve to elevate Rhaenyra. She feels like a self-insert for the writers. I don't think a great actress would have turned her into a better character, there just isn't anything to work with.

[@Jakegothicsnake]

Brace yourselves, Shad and other fellow fans of HOTD. There’s gonna be a character from the book who’s male who’s gonna be depicted as female on the show, and that character is gonna be played by a Male-To-Female Transgender person……….

[@RedHood001-KA]

Wait, really? Who?

[@Jakegothicsnake]

@@RedHood001-KAA person who goes by “Abigail Thorn”, whose KZbin is called Philosophy Tube. kzbin.infoeZIOns-4PuU?si=QTFsIUQE3jdSaNZq

[@IgnusIncubus]

What the hell?

[@Jakegothicsnake]

@@RedHood001-KAA KZbinr known as Philosophy Tube.

[@RedHood001-KA]

@@Jakegothicsnake Huh, thanks for the info 👍

[@ionutcristian9650]

At first i though this show is woke done right. I thought "all Valyrians are black because of the climate so the race change at least makes sense" But then i realised, targaryens are also from valyria, so it's obviously not the climate. Woke is not meant for critical thinking. It breaks down pretty fast. It's only skin deep.

[@HasanAbist]

Targaryen and Velaryon are fictional characters with pale skin, silver, platinum and eyes in various shades of purple or light blue. Not all pale skin people are White. Asian also has white skin, so does many other ethnicities. The choice of casting the Velaryon as black is not just for some reason. They served a legitimate reason/purpose in the story and it made sense. Nobody cares about the Velaryon being black since the first season. The fact that black people still bother you is quite concerning.

[@ionutcristian9650]

@@HasanAbist so why no white or asian people in wakanda ?

[@HasanAbist]

@@ionutcristian9650 Google "White Wolf"

[@HasanAbist]

@@ionutcristian9650 Google "White Wolf"

[@HasanAbist]

@@ionutcristian9650 Hunter / The White Wolf

[@VaporSulla]

Mysaria shouldn't be at Rhaenyra's side, she's there just to be gay with her. She gave Aegon to the green, she started the war, she should be dead the moment Rhaenyra aknowledges what she have done.

[@alexanderwiles2003]

yeah and its weird she asked for a place at her court but really shes just scheming with her in her bedroom

[@ToeKnife166]

Also having a lady of the night as you besties would ruin her reputation

[@spunkush]

Also she shuts out Jace in favor of Mysaria.. but if Rhaneyra dies in battle (which she continues to want to risk) then Jace would be in charge and have no clue what has been happening. Jace has to fight or else he would be killed and his mother wouldnt even include him on critical operations

[@Vinipuchas911]

It did not bother me at all, even though i am conservative in my political views, show is great.

[@irena4545]

Except that Mysaria working for Rhaenyra is straight from the book. If they are straight in the book, there is no telling, but she does have Rhaenyra's ear.

[@tensiyonado8276]

if Corlys' bloodline is no dragon lords then why his bastard became a dragon rider? is the boy's mother a Targaryen? or Velaryons can actually ride dragons?

[@kjellduteweert9262]

In the books they are Laenors and around the age of jace.

[@KamalaKackles]

Addam is Corles’ son. I’d his mom was Targaryen, he’d have white hair. It doesn’t make sense

[@milkshake26M]

they had to bring black people and sacrifice lore and logic for it so yeah. let's just say it's magic, i guess.

[@alexanderwiles2003]

the velaryons have been intermingling with house Targaryen for a very long time so he probably has Targaryen blood. though many people have also theorised that you may only need valerian blood to right a dragon.

[@justincarter1217]

The velaryons have valirian blood and theyve intermarried with the targaryens for generations, so they have that power too. Corlys for example could claim a dragon if he wanted to but he prefers sea fairing

[@zacharyfrancis7708]

That scene aside, everything from episode 5 and 6 could have happened in one episode. The pacing this season is horrendous and it feels like nothing is happening. Yes things are happening but the show doesn’t feel like it. Daemon’s hallucinations at Harrenhal are being dragged out. Every episode there is a repeat of similar scenes like Rhaenyra being like we need to do something and someone offers to do something and she says no. Or Alicent being treated poorly by the green council. On top of that the characters just aren’t interesting this season compared to last. It’s a shame.

[@nersesgarabed781]

They need to get Miguel Sapochnik back. I think possibly the success of season one caused HBO to want to milk this show for longer than they originally planned. S2 was supposed to be action packed but it most definitely isn’t. We got bait and switched and I believe that’s probably why Sapochnik left the show right after it was deemed a massive success.

[@zacharyfrancis7708]

@@nersesgarabed781 I agree. every episode doesn’t need to be a battle but it needs to feel like we are in a war and events should start speeding up. It still feels like we are setting up for a war instead of already being in one.

[@nersesgarabed781]

@@zacharyfrancis7708 totally agree. If I see one more scene of Halayna just weirding out I’ll have to stop myself from throwing the remote at the TV.

[@ForgottenHonor0]

It's a bit forced in my opinion, though I do want to see where they take it. I'm wondering if Mysaria will try to have more influence with Rhaenyra and use this as leverage, kinda like how Larys is maneuvering his way further upward with the Greens. Never fully trust a spymaster.

[@Green-HairedAnti-Liberal]

I don't know the lore and did a little bit of research (not in-depth), and I couldnt find that Rhaenyra and the white worm were lovers. I hate that scene because its such a stupid trope from a teen fanfic (girl is mad at bf and find his ex to sleep with cuz clearly they are bi and love each other instead of the big bad guy). I've also felt that there have been a lot of other warning signs that there is agenda before this. Idk if I care enough to keep watching after this season. Too much setup again and Daemon should've had these scenes last week. Dragging out his Harrenhall stuff is tired.

[@WonderfulTulips-hj3lz]

Yes that kiss was unnecessary 🙄

[@vanessalore9942]

Hope you’re feeling better Shad

[@AppleFrogTomatoFace]

i haven’t read the book, if its in the book i am bit relieved, maybe they can salvage it to have some meaning later, but just this it felt forced… one thing i really hate from recent these forcing scenes is that there is no more just hugging from same sex. if same sex ppl hug or exchange any deep emotion somehow it has to turn in to gay stuff. i can’t remember exactly, but few month ago i saw a old movie and two guys were hugging due to some bad thing happen, and in my mind ‘are they trying to imply they are gay or something?’ and i was exhausted at myself for thinking those things. it feels like there are no more just hug for same sex…

[@LunaBirbosa]

It is in the book. Asoiaf had always had queer relationships. Dany had a female side piece, cersei had a female lover, and renlys kingsguard were literally called the Rainbow Guard.

[@guilhermesavoya2366]

For a long time, there were basically ONLY "just hugs" for the same sex and ONLY "that hug implies future romance" for the opposite sex. I think it is good that now we can get more than one thing from such acts and be surprised either way at the end if it stays platonic or develops into something more. As for HOTD, it is implied that Rhaenyra also liked her sister-in-law Laena, but nothing of Mysaria. For all we know, she os just taking advantage of Rhaenyra's vulnerability to gain power. That would fit the character.

[@knightheaven8992]

@@guilhermesavoya2366 The problem with this, in a setting such as this, it wold not be something that would be so common, as it would be quite repressed... but whataver

[@guilhermesavoya2366]

@@knightheaven8992 Dude, people don't become gay through osmosis. It would be just as common as today. It would just be hidden (they are not doing anything in public, for instance, as it is expected). Besides, of all the tens of characters in this show, there are only two that were confirmed to be either gay or bi. For all I know, it is too little for the number of people involved (bi people are much more common than we think).

[@LunaBirbosa]

@@knightheaven8992 YOU ARE THINKING OF EARTHS DARK AGES. WESTEROS IS NOT ON EARTH

[@ForzaMara]

While Mysaria being ever present is forced, I don't see the kiss as being forced. I can see Mysaria using her newly found power to her advantage, and seducing Rhaenyra would just be one of her tactics. As to why Rhaenyra goes for it. I could see it being as simple as vulnerability.

[@suga4831]

I can agree on this take too, but at the same time there was no proper build up to the kiss scene. For me, it would have made much more sense to see them grow this relationship with each scene, the chemistry, the little details and hints of love/connection, but we only got strategies of war talk aaaall this time. And even if Rhaenyra was bi in the books (apparently there are hints in it) you still have to setup those aspects of her sexuality on the show. But in the show, we only seen her getting it on with Daemon, with all men.

[@cian239]

But Rhaenyra isn’t attracted to women in the books they just added this. Don’t make excuses

[@teongreen5254]

Thats not how it works. If you are straight you can get secudced by another woman or let another woman kiss you. I am straight and I would never let another man kiss me. Its not possible to be seduced by another man no matter how vulnerable you are.

[@THISISRISE]

You just contradicted yourself because she didn't seduce her at all. She only said she was abused

[@agonsfitness7308]

When I try to seduce someone I always proceed by telling them about my SA trauma to turn them on...see how crazy that sounds?

[@witchking2063]

Okay been thinking for a while now Shad, but you are coping for this show way too hard. The white worm x Rhynera is way worse than you state. Lets pretend that the worm was a dude for a sec. He shows up about 3 times for conversations with her, none of which suggest they are getting closer, other than he follows her orders. Doesn't sound good with guy so how is it better with a girl, since she has shown zero interest in women so far. At least with men its shown Rhynera is promiscuous. The writing of characters is so barebones its infuriating. Tell me anything about Larys other than stuff from season 1. There is no new info. What about Aemond? Words wise he has done the most and yet barely has any more character than season 1. Also this is about show. Not books. The books are quite different than the show already.

[@stuartgooding7295]

I think it wasn't needed !! .. That's the question....at no point in house of the dragons...has the queen..shown any hits ..she's gay .or bie ....they need to be very cesrful how they deal with this. Because it could fall of a cliff .if it isn't handled properly!!!!

[@alesksander]

Hmm idk about that. Got strong bi vibes from with first scenes with alicent. But at first i gave those Ryhneara behaviors to caprices of yought. But i agree later in show that was not really depicted in not any occasion.

[@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylord]

Thats a lie she always had that tomboy vibe always wanting to do what was traditional a boy things. And even if she did kiss a girl earlier you people would still be complaining.

[@mjbull5156]

It goes again that a character that has always been shown to be interested in the opposite sex are fair game to be "turned". A character that is initially presented as homosexual is so adamantly gay they cannot even engage in straight sex out of duty (Laenor). It is tiresome, and Myseria's backstory about her father was terribly cringey.

[@alesksander]

@@mjbull5156 Umm she can be BI. anyway got no problem with that. Just trusting to the this sparrow lady is quite nuts and poorly handled and forced IMO.

[@Fiestacat12345]

The queen kissing someone who just confided that she was sexually assaulted by family is creepy.

[@R0GU351GN4L]

We're talking about a woman that had several promiscuous relationships and is currently engaging in an incestuous relationship with her uncle. She's hardly of upstanding moral character.

[@vinnigan6502]

Daemon also killed his first wife with a rock. Definitely not a good guy

[@HistoryandHeadlines]

Are you enjoying this season overall?

[@atomlurch1]

The scene felt too forced and out of nowhere in my opinion, everything else was in episode 6 was pretty good

[@garrythegoldfish7593]

I don't know, to me everything this episode just seemed off... I can't quite put my finger on it but the characters just didn't seem to click together this episode (with the exceptions of a few scenes) the acting seemed stale, even from characters whose acting I've loved throughout the show

[@Livy-berlin]

well, I’m a straight woman and normally don’t even like woke stuff - but in that scene I totally felt it and suddenly wanted them to kiss and love each other. The words of respect they exchanged were soo honest. To me it was totally understandable.

[@wingsoffreedom3589]

Death by a thousand cuts LGBT season witg no use is always a bad sign

[@SamHa-s9r]

It is my Impression that every rather important Moment ist Split and the solution suspended for later in the Episode/season while inbetween isn't Happening much. This season Had its moments, but they are spread thin over a tedious and stagnating Plot, wich would fit better in a 3 h movie.

[@wingsoffreedom3589]

@@SamHa-s9r precisely

[@jakelangs8848]

Some things are definitely forced, but overall, the show is one of the best on TV right now.

[@gabyzzeetoon4516]

they included black targaryens with dreads but cut out Neetles and merged her story line with other characters. absolute nonsense trash fanfic

[@dottzie33]

The whole scene made me cringe. Can I see where it came from to absolutely Rheanyra has lost so much in a short space of time she clearly needed a hug and some comfort she hasn’t had. I’ve been there needing a hug from a confidant but the big BUT is I never felt the urge to then start ‘getting off’ with them It completely ruined the scene. I hope there is a reason for it which will make sense later.

[@evanluna116]

House of the Dragon was always woke to me, but it was tolerable

[@ВасяЧе-ъ9ш]

We want EVERY detail discussed, Shad! 🧐

[@ToeKnife166]

The conversation are same every week

[@TheDream6842]

The blacks councils are boring. The greens carry the show.

[@veronicadavanzo2064]

I love it when you get into the weeds. Not intimidated by 45 min + reviews. Bring it on!

[@edl1973]

3 episodes of Damon dreaming. Boring

[@ajandu_marvel]

Get well soon Shad!! Hopefully you’re back to usual for next week

[@Kolvarg]

I don't think the show portrays Alicent as that much of an awful mother, to be honest. To some extent sure, you could make that interpretation, but it's hard to take it at face value when she is consistently shown as being disregarded and undermined by men, to the point of not ever having much authority over her own children because their society places the power on them, not her. People's criticism over Alicent and Rhaenyra's characterization this season is not because they are portrayed as perfect, they aren't. It's that they are portrayed almost as morally superior, being the only ones considering the possibility of a peaceful resolution and the pain and suffering the war will cause to the small folk, almost with a modern mindset, while without Viserys the men are just feudal medieval men who just want to go to war and fight without any second thoughts or care for the people.

[@kjellduteweert9262]

In the books, I would say Rhaenyra is that mostly because of her relationship with Laena/Daemon, who is actually on Driftmark and Dragonstone instead of in Pentos. After, there are parts in the book that say she joined Daemon with Mysaria. But Never alone, but then again, we don't know what happens behind closed doors. My main problem is that I have whitewashed Alicent and Rhaenyra. They have no agency anymore; they just stand around and complain. Rhaenyra should have been ready for war at the beginning of season 2, and Alicent should have long ago chosen aside. Why else did she pit her children against Rhaenyra? It doesn't make sense. I like Season 1 up to a couple of things, like the Dragon Pit massacre. So Alicent being so against going to war with Rhaenyra is a big no-no. She made that choice along ago, or did all forget what side did during Rhaenyra's wedding?

[@mapzilla]

Sapphic displays of affection are so ubiquitous in modern culture it has rendered hetero romance increasingly irrelevant. It's also evidence that online smut has reached critical mass and gone mainstream. Girls kissing is a popular smut category.

[@know-nothingmillennial3043]

I only think the kiss was forced because it's the 2 worst actors in the show. Better actors would have built up the chemistry that the writers were going for better.

[@spike1422]

It's vexing to see the lead women claim the moral high ground and blame men for a war that THEY started. Alicent stole the Crown, and Reineira (it's a made up name, I don't care about the spelling) won't let go of it. The fighting was caused by these two women, and they persist in blaming men.

[@dread9030]

No, it didn't go woke, it's always been woke. From girl boss Rhaenyra and her DEI avengers, this series was always meant to be woke.

[@jaketheberge1970]

IRL it seems that kiss was unscripted. In the world of the show I don't think the Rheanyra and Whiteworm thing comes entirely out of of nowhere in terms of what these characters prefer. Rheanyra has imo shown to be very comfortable with other women, The best example we see is when she is laying her head in Alicent's lap and holding each other in close intimate ways. Granted those don't mean they where in love or that their was mutual attraction. It was certainly enough for people to start shipping them. As for Mysaria I'm not conviced its a case of her just being attracted to her yet. She was a sex worker and knows how to get someones motor running. So it could be these three things. 1. its just romance, boring. 2. She sees the Queen is stressed out and offers up a a way to release said stress. Something similar happens in the books. Daenerys is in bed all hot and bothered and her handmaid (a former slave used for sex) notices and provides her services. its not shown as romantic at all, more like a transaction or in the handmaids case maybe a way to gain higher status by becoming Dany's lover. Mysaria could be doing the same thing. And 3. Manipulation. Same thing as number 2 but its meant to gain influence over a vulnerable Rheanyra. All of this is a just theories so don't take it too seriously.

[@jaketheberge1970]

That being said I do think this scene was poorly made.

[@orcocan]

it was in the script, don't spread nonsense please

[@jaketheberge1970]

@@orcocan Mysaria's actress said it was unscripted. Feel free to google it.

[@eros5420]

Female sexuality is notoriously more flexible than male sexuality.... but usually not at her age. I could be wrong but she seems to be in her 30s right? Most women don't experiment at that point without having shown interest in it earlier on in life. I haven't seen this episode yet so I'm kinda talking out my rear, but yeah it sounds out of place. As for it being woke, the characters definitely push a feminist idea in their motives and world view. But that's as characters and it seems appropriate. They see men as bloody thirsty but fail to see that men have reasons for why they do things the way they do. Otto Hightower is an incredible foil to the feminist narrative. He shows his daughter how niave she was when the king dies and they already have plans to take over. It's honestly masterfully done... being able to show both sides realistically and their boons and banes. While I don't think this show is woke, I would also add that something can be woke and good, it's just really rare. Castlevania on Netflix is a recent example I saw.

[@aliciahauskins7825]

If you think she hasn't shown any interest in women at all so far, I challenge you to rewatch season one and pay attention to the scenes with her and Alicent as youngsters.

[@uniblonder5606]

It ruined it for me.... you can bet it will only get worse. Daemon and his mother worse.

[@HasanAbist]

You chose to watch a show which incest is the main theme. but two women kiss ruined it for you is quite concerning,...

[@LunaBirbosa]

Lotta tourists in these comments.

[@VoFALT]

The showrunners need to reign in their actors because they are allowing them too much creative freedom to try to force their narrative fanfic in.

[@HasanAbist]

Sonoya said that Ryan Condal has been planning the romance since was cast back in 2020. The romantic pause was already written into the script and they were going to almost kiss. It would have been clear to us all what was about to happen but it would have been interrupted before they actually kissed. The actor’s idea was just to sped up the writer’s idea.

[@Xenophon1]

Boycott anything woke. It drives them nuts.

[@forsaken7976]

It’s always been woke. People were just so starved for decent shows and drooling over dragons that they pretended it wasn’t woke.

[@tracey5745]

You have brain rot

[@lennynull-funf-zehn5416]

Define woke for me please

[@whispofwords2590]

I fail to see how its always been woke. Its had woke aspects and sentiments weaved in here and there since the begining, but that does not make it woke. It portrays characters of both sexes as terrible people, and has characters of both sexes caught in the cross fire of their ambitions and rash decision making. As shad pointed out, the only morally sound main character (relative to the world he lives in) is male.

[@omarmedina3893]

How was it woke?

[@AlexiusRedwood]

Women are in power next

[@aenema22]

I'm a fan of your channels and sub to all of them, and enjoy most of your content. That said, it might be prudent for you to take the time to learn the names of the characters in the show you are reviewing. I understand that the names in this show are confusing. It's totally understandable for general audiences to forget character names from time to time, but for a content creator reviewing a show I expect a higher standard. I leave this comment in love.

[@Noethos]

To me, while it mighta seemed random when I first watched it - after a bit of thought, it kinda made some sense. The two have had several moments together now and Rhaenyra did spare her life and in return I believe Mysaria was the one to let someone know which ended with the twins having their fight, and thereby Mysaria saving Rhaenyras life. Rhaenyra, right now, especially after Rhaenys dying, has no one reaaaallyyy in her corner atm, especially not a woman. Baela is doing her thing, her sister is off watching the young kids, she clung to hope for peace with Alicent but that failed. Her son went off without her blessing, Daemon is more or less ghosting her and last the two spoke they fought over Aegons son being killed. Her council keeps telling her to just do nothing, that she's the softer sex blabla. Mysaria is pretty much the only one hyping her up right now and she has so much to gain from seducing Rhaenyra and she knows the queen has a soft heart, tell a terrible past, gain sympathy and go in for the "kill". Seemed to me at least, while Rhaenyra initiated the hug, Mysaria kissed her neck first. A moment of weakness, a moment of vulnerability, perhaps missing intimacy - Daemons been gone a biiit now so.. 🫣 To me the kissing made sense, BUT hopefully they keep it to a "in the moment" kind of thing and move on 💜 She's got a war to focus on after all.

[@stephaniebedworth2470]

Seriously, we've watched these two get closer and closer all season. Mysaria is actually helping Rhaenyra do things that make her feel not so useless in all this. No one else is doing that. This is not out of left field.

[@Noethos]

@@stephaniebedworth2470 There's also people who say they just put in a random kiss, that Rhaenyra is straight blabla.. she's been given me bi-curious since season 1, episode 1 😹 The way her and Alicent were so close, the way she talks about wanting to fly off on dragon back with her, liking her place where she was at the time - her head in Alicent's lap.. wouldn't surprise me if a little bit of jealousy when her father married Alicent, and it adds more a bit more to why she fights so hard to believe in a peaceful solution, that just doing the risky venture of talking to Alicent face to face will somehow fix everything. At least it makes sense to me 😹 I didn't rewatch season 1 before season 2, so I forgot a lot but, I've seen many clips lately and recalled I picked up on that.

[@hedinsee6830]

I do not agree with the point about Rhaenyra and Seasmoke. There is a third possibility. The one rider one dragon rule is almost certainly well in place. Rhaenyra may have simply inferred Laenor's death from Seasmoke's behaviour, which was well set up for several prior episodes. He was suddenly disquieted, anxious, etc. And with Laenor's death being the most logical conclusion she was willing to take a risk given the severity of their situation. Yeah, Mysaria and Rhaenyra situation is problematic. It doesn't rub me too wrong *so far* since I have the book background where this is not really out of character. But in the show alone, yeah, somewhat concerning...

[@garrythegoldfish7593]

I will say this was definitely the weakest episode of the season by far for me, and probably one of the weakest episodes of the show Edit): They can still recover from this though. Also we can't really say the show went woke when it was always trying to go that way this was just the most visible to their ideology and yes did seem very forced even the acting didn't seem as crisp. But I still love the show as a whole so far, I'm curious to see if it will get better or worse.

[@Echowhiskeyone]

I think the pendulum is swinging the other way. Many are sick of wokeness everywhere, and now even a bit of woke is too much. I have not been watching this, but reviews look better than average. You can pick the woke from this episode, but overall, it does not seem to be woke.

[@Likexner]

Even a bit of woke _is_ too much and always has been. Its cancer. You dont want to have just a little bit of cancer, you want to have no cancer.

[@MonicaGarcia-bd3ci]

My money is that the White Worm is trying to work Rhaneyra for her own advantage rather than actual affection (who doesn't want to be in the Queen's pocket?). I think its going to bite both of them where it hurts... or Daemond is going to show up and ask to join in, making them a throuple. Its GoT universe, anything can happen.

[@furiousfelicia5751]

I agree with most of what you say, feels quite forced and not set up very well at all. The white worm chick is annoying in general. Also yeah..let's send a bunch of boats to KL, I'm sure only the peasants will see them in this time of war.. That stunt was quite a gamble. Btw didn't they lock the citizens from leaving the city? I also find it a bit peculiar that Deamon clearly sees that Alice is not your average NPC and probably a witch, and yet he would blame Simon for trying to bewitch him. I suppose it's fine...he's the one always offering food but come on, I would expect Deamon to have a bit of experience dealing with chaotic people. Especially considering the way she can speak to him. I still enjoy the show but some things are just a bit "fishy". Pacing for one..I kind of feel we should have at least 2 more episodes between ep 5 and 6.. And now this sudden coochy itch with Rhaenyra... I think gay elements in these kind of fantasy settings are very realistic but like you said, all we ever seen from R is her head in Alicent's lap when they were kids. I even took her Duck/Goose analogy as specific and accurate. Edit: and I was too a bit annoyed with what's happening with the whole dragon rider theory but then I remembered good old Vicerys' words "the idea that we control the dragons is an illusion" so maybe that all plays in to it. Weird decision for Game of thrones to just retire a very important character without the agenda to make a pay off later; eg. Leanor popping back to the scene at some point. But if that were to be the case then why would Seasmoke be looking for a new one? And if we do learn that Leanor is dead at some point, what significance would that bring now? The one that doesn't sing anymore is Alicent - in her little cage now with a window.

[@SilentSolvent]

He obviously wasn't crying over Tully lmfao he was crying over Viserys

[@kanrakucheese]

On if one scene can ruin a work: There's plenty of dumb last minute twists/reveals in works that it would have been better just cutting the scene and twist entirely. Same with works trying to explain their magic.

[@brandonm4550]

This show hasn’t been 1 scene it’s a bunch of them over 2 seasons. This woke thrones with none of the likeable characters or anyone to cheer for.

[@KamalaKackles]

I turned it off after the lesbian kiss. I’ve had enough homosexuality in TV and movies. I refuse to watch it pointlessly shoved into a medieval dragon sci fi show

[@Somebody-pq1jq]

@@KamalaKacklesyou miss the first season?

[@KamalaKackles]

@@Somebody-pq1jq No. It’s not as much having a gay kiss as it is forcing it in w no set up, payoff or reasoning other than “yas gay”