Was Jesus a great moral teacher or something more? Julian Baggini and Skye Jethani

Atheist philosopher Julian Baggini and Christian author Skye Jethani discuss whether the ethics of Jesus can be separated from his claim to be divine?
For Julian’s new book The Godless Gospel www.julianbaggini.com/the-god...
For Skye’s new book What’s Wrong With Religion? skyejethani.com/ and his podcast The Holy Post www.holypost.com/
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[@ChristopherDolby]

I may be biased but I’m gonna go “something more !” 🤣🤣🤣 Praise Him!! 👊😇

[@Rick-ec1vr]

So cool when all my favs get on each other’s shows. Love Skye!

[@garyhughes1664]

Really good discussion and I enjoyed listening to it.

[@thysvanzyl2782]

Super Cool !! Love it!!

[@BoldFollower]

Amen. God is good!

[@donnadeau7619]

Agree, he is good enough to be the god of confusion through his non-existence.

[@Football-zi2dc]

Skye and Justin couldn’t hit the like button fast enough

[@jenniebugs1]

I tried dismantling Jesus too. However, what I found was not just in the New Testament, but was a clarion call throughout the Old Testament where He was unerringly accurately prophesied about nearly 2000 years before His actual appearance. From Genesis 1 onwards everything points to Him, not as just a moral teacher, but as being Messiah, Saviour of the world, and most importantly, as being God in the flesh. Blew me away! I studied the ancient Hebrew meanings in the bible, not just the translations - made a big difference.

[@brucegaylord5384]

Enjoyable discussion as always. When they were talking about other religions, there are things we can learn from them. If we believe that every human being is created in the image of God, that image is still present no matter how far away from the truth (showing my bias here) they are. That means we should treat everyone accordingly. To me that accounts for some universal qualities all people have. Personally, I learn as much from people I disagree with than people like Skye who I tend to agree with on most things. I really enjoy people disagreeing and being respectful

[@normaodenthal8009]

The gospel of prosperity, where God wants you to be rich, and if you’re poor, it has to be because you’re lazy and have fallen out of favour with God, has to be the ultimate anti-gospel. It speaks volumes about the lack of understanding of basic theology and ignorance of what Christianity entails. A Christian is someone who sees Christ in everyone and treats them accordingly. But this is not happening; so much for one nation under God, let alone being a Christian nation. Christianity has largely been rejected before it has really been tried. It’s a bit like Gandhi’s comment about civilisation: it would be great, if we could give it a try.

[@edenlifeonearth]

Watching from Hong Kong. Such a civilised discussion! I think Skye is right in saying that if people wanted to follow these other thinkers' teachings then by all means! Jesus' teachings are a tall order and one cannot separate His teachings from His claims about Himself. You either take it or leave it. If you pick and choose, or amplify one verse over others (eg in the prosperity gospel) then you're NOT following Jesus. This is the reason why Jesus said the road to hell is broad and easy and many are on it, while the road to heaven is narrow and hard and few are on it. On wealth, it is the heart position that is most important but our hearts are evil the Bible says, so one can deceive oneself to say their wealth is for giving to others. Oh how we are so desperately helplessly hopeless without God Himself transforming us and helping us! That's why we Christians should constantly rely on God to even love Him and be obedient to His teachings. Romans 8 is so true! Thank you, gentlemen.

[@Luke_Radiosmash]

You can vote for Trump without worshipping him or attaching him to your faith. EVERYONE I know who voted Trump did so for policy, not because they love or even like Trump. I would debate Skye in a heartbeat on the reasoning for a Christian voting for Trump as he obviously hasn't thought much about it/talked to many Conservative (politically) Christians. Really sad to see the arrogant elitism toward Trump voters on this program.

[@patrobinson3169]

What policies do you support that Trump has put into place?

[@grahamburkum7811]

THANK YOU. It's disheartening.

[@tonyabrown7796]

@@patrobinson3169 If I were american I would vote for Trump. Democrats support abortion up to and even beyond birth. They also support children being transgendered. They are for violent, murderous riots where people steal and destroy property. They don't support nuclear families, real justice or working for a living. They also are intolerant of people who don't share their opinions, as evidenced by calling for records to be kept of Trump supporters so that they might keep them out of work or various other repercussions. Alternatively Trump got lots of manufacturing back in America and created jobs. He got 2 peace treaties in the middle east. He advocated for the unborn. He increased the strength of the military and yet didn't start wars. There are plenty more reasons to vote for Trump, but that's enough for me.

[@carlpeterson8182]

I completely disagree with the understanding of why there is much Evangelical and conservative Christian political support for Trump in the United States. Every Christian Trump supporter I know does so based on Trump's political views. Everyone I have spoken with or seen comment acknowledges Trump's poor morality and Christianity. All Trump supporters I know do not promote Trump as a role moral or Christian role model. The political support comes because Conservative Christians in the US do not view either candidates in the 2016 or the 2020 election as moral or supporting a Christian worldview. Hilarhy was definitely seen as less moral. There are jokes that you will go missing if you get on the Clinton's bad side or know too much. Clinton's pro choice view is also seen as anti-Christ. Biden is looked on more favorably but he is also a proven plagarizer and liar and has allegations of misconduct with minor females. Thus as much as you can say against Trump's moral and Christian views the Democratic candidates are seen as even less moral or at best just as moral. there is a popular saying in the US that we elect a President and not a pastor. It seems many Conservative evangelical Christians heed to this view when the morality is poor on all sides. Voting for a 3rd party seems like a waste of a vote to many. Why not vote for the candidate that in the end will do things that one politically agrees with? Trump is pro-life, believes in limited government and capitbalism, also believes in traditional views of gender, marriage, and sexual orientation. At least he will be pushed in that way. He has also put on conservative Superme Court justices that are Constitutionalists. Given all the above I do not see how it is weird that Conservative Christians often support Trump politically. It would seem weird that these Christians go against their political views to support another candidate with less or equal morality. Why would they do that?

[@carlpeterson8182]

@@itisnow But those were the fringe. Sure there are always some outliers but the main support he had from Conservative Christian evangelicals came from what some would call non Fundies. Although now I think anyone who believes the Bible is the Word of God in the USA is considered a fundie but that is another topic. So yes, there were some. But there were so many a cast many who voted for him as the best possible politcal option only. f it is not undertood that a large amount of his support came from those who did not like his morality then mistakes like in the video above can be made. In the video the Christian from the US makes it sound like many of the Christian supporters of Trump approved of his morality and character. That is just not true of the normal conservative support and not really true of the more fundies I know either. They were not so blind to his character as it sounds like in the video. That being said they were also not blind to Clinton and Biden character or lack thereof also. Thus it became only a political election and not one really about character. At least not for a large number of Trump supporters. Leaving that out causes misunderstanding from those in the UK or other countries that might not really know many of the real people who supported Trump politically. That last part is my main argument.

[@johncook19]

I would consider that Joseph Atwill could add to this discussion and that could be slightly disturbing to Apologists.

[@MortenBendiksen]

I can't read the Gospel without getting the impression that Jesus is breaking down our human games of morality which we use to hit each other over the head with, so that we can actually come to him without pretense or agendas. Without His divinity it all becomes a war of who's better, which exactly what he is breaking down. Even with his divinity Christians go down that road often enough, me included. He is talking spiritual guidance, not morality. It's not immoral to seek riches, but it's a fleeting distraction that will ultimately shape your soul so that you will never feel satisfied or connected with Him because you are seeking something else, so it's worse than immoral. Immoral things can be forgiven, but putting your heart with fleeting treasure is destructive of your heart and soul. You won't even want forgiveness for anything in the end. Well, this is my take. There are always many takes on these incredible layered stories.

[@frankwhelan1715]

Like to see J B debating Tom Holland. also, what about societies with no christian roots,are they less moral or ethical ?

[@simonskinner1450]

The Way is judgement. To judge ourselves against a moral code, to judge each other as ourselves, and to be judged by Christ. Love comes by judgement.

[@normaodenthal8009]

Judgement without love is also without mercy. If you lack love, your judgements will always be incorrect as they will lack the empathy needed to see a perspective other than your own. You have the cart before the horse; it is love that leads to judgement, and the judgement you make will be because you care about the other, and not because you want to elevate yourself above another.

[@simonskinner1450]

@@normaodenthal8009 I say the moral code comes from caring about or love of others. Judgement is the operation of the code to prevent or reverse injustice. Mercy and reconciliation is for those who repent or are truly sorry and deserve it. 1 John 3:10 "whosoever doth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother". Righteousness is doing the right thing, which is proof of love that only comes from judgement. The person who is in the position to judge because they are righteous, always elevates themselves above the evil doers. That is the moral code and proof of love.

[@normaodenthal8009]

@@simonskinner1450 Thinking that our righteousness gives us the right to judge others, sounds very much like self righteousness. It is also self delusion, since we all do the wrong things from time to time. We are actually told not to judge, lest we be judged also. ( Matthew 7:1) Jesus also said: let the one who is without sin cast the first stone. Clearly, there is nobody without sin. We are all in need of forgiveness and should forgive those who sin against us. (This is straight from the Lord’s Prayer, and it does not say: forgive them if they deserve it.) Man is not perfect and is not in any position to judge others perfectly, so it is best to leave the judging up to God. Jesus also said we should love our neighbours as ourselves, and also love our enemies. Here too, he did not add: if they deserve it.

[@simonskinner1450]

@@normaodenthal8009 "Judge not, that ye be not judged", is from "seeking his righteousness" as Matt 6:33. And "in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour", as Leviticus 19:15. Righteousness of the self in deed is required as an example to others, but wrong things must not be wilful sin, mistakes by fellow 'Christians' must be forgiven on repentance. That is the Lords Prayer as we are forgiven for our repentance from sin. Matt 18:15-17 set out the need of repentance.

[@mr.c2485]

You are correct. “Love your neighbor as yourself” is judgement. Few believers take the time to ask themselves...”how much DO I love myself?” Neglecting that question is why they have no spiritual barometer for loving their neighbor. They spend more time trying to comply with rules and regulations that were actually designed to expose their judgements for that very purpose. It’s a fools game to “walk on eggshells for Jesus”. Attempting to be justified by observing the law turns productive judgements into the lies of condemnation. Ours is to capture thought, submit thought, and then transfer those thoughts to others in the form of appropriate judgement which is love and forgiveness. Participating in what I call “I see me..I see you” shouldn’t be done as an obligation to law but rather by the compassionate judgements of weakness. “His strength is made perfect in our weakness”. One who pursues such godly things is indeed “perfect”.....the most avoided word in the Bible. Shame.....there are many perfections that are not being utilized because people don’t want the responsibility. The very “grace” that they claim to understand IS a perfection on our part.

[@sunithajacob8967]

Its so evident now that the younger generation needs Jesus more than ever.... See how misled they are! ....

[@onionbelly_]

Said every old person in human history.

[@gonzalovelascoc.2953]

Justin: THERE is a great point that you in Europe, even more in England, don't perceive: the "you can't be perfect (or a Saint)" is a protestant view, one of the deeper points of disagreement between Luther and the Catholics. Also the "theology of prosperity". Many protestant or "unaligned" Christians have that in their bones and we can see it when they debate. Also some views about the Bible that are sad consequences of the "free, personal, (away from a good exegesis) reading" that lead to +300 protestant churches.

[@donnadeau7619]

A major problem with Christianity is that they have never proved the god of Genesis rendering Jesus irrelevant.

[@greglogan7706]

Not sure what Jesus "divinity" has to do with anything....

[@sunithajacob8967]

If some political figure stands for biblical values it is indeed wise to choose him and support him .... Nobody is perfect except God and only God knows the hearts of men .... sadly people judge others too quickly! . Do not forget that repentance takes just a second !......see the fruits before passing judgement!... So sad to see how people are deceived , even those who claim to be Christians!. I wish such people don’t write anymore books!!!!.

[@jotunman627]

“You accept the historical existence of Jesus?” Einstein: “Unquestionably. No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life

[@IosifStalin2]

Einstein was a Scientist. Not everyone can be a scientist, but anyone can be a Philosopher-Theologian

[@walterseliga9676]

Dear Friends and especially Mr. Brierley. I think Mr. Skye at 19 minutes to the video unwittingly demonstrates the whole nonsense with the concept of the so called God's Word: "Jesus gives different commands to different people [.....], but if you take a broad picture you will understand Jesus' teachings in such and such a way." Then if we add to Jesus' teachings prof. Bart Ehrman's opinion, American NT scholar, which is if I am not mistaken: "Only around 18% of Jesus' sayings can be attributed to him." And for a good measure if we add prof. Gerd Ludemann's opinion, German NT scholar: "Only some 5% of Jesus' sayings can be attributed to him." Then if we add on top of that, as an icing on the cake, that the Bible can be deciphered only under the strict guidance of the Holy Spirit ( 1 Letter to Corinthians 2:15- "The person with the Spirit makes judgments, about all things, but is not a subject to human judgments.") a simple and clear picture emerges: Mr. Baggini, Mr. Jethani and the rest of "thinkers" who write or talk about the supposed Jesus' teachings are simply producing Pure Nonsense. Kind regards.

[@steveclark8538]

Or something less? See: The Bad Jesus The Ethics of NT Ethics by Hector Avalos

[@patrickturner7764]

I can see the guys point about the picture of Trump with the bible. But I don't think its honest to say Trump just had the protesters cleared out to do a photo op. You have to bring up that these protesters lit the church on fire and they were cleared out to put the fire out.

[@chardo24]

Christianity is an active apocalyptic religion. Jesus as well as Paul believe the end of the world was eminent. There was no need to gather material wealth since the end of the world was at hand. However the world did not end and as consequence a new view of history was put in place by the Christian church. In the act of the apostles this is the time of the Church . This a time of preparation for Christians expecting the return of Jesus the Messiah.

[@kwall1464]

I wanted to start by saying I really appreciate everything you’re doing, I love listening to you and your guests. I have an observation, for whatever it’s worth. You’re not an American based platform and so I wouldn’t think American politics are a focal point of what you discuss (I personally welcome the break from from hearing about the election, Trump, etc.). However, when you bring up American politics and address them it it seems to be one sided, I have yet to hear someone give an example of how a libertarian or conservative POV is in line with the gospel and human flourishing. It seems assumed that a liberal (and a major component of that is government control and regulation) view of American politics is more caring and in line with Christ. I have not found Skye’s statement about biblical literacy/Trump voters to be true within the spheres of people that I have encountered (of course that is simply antidotal and he’s referring to a study, I understand there’s a difference). Statements like that are very dismissive. Awhile back I was listening to the interview with Mark Sayers and a group of pastors. In that discussion they seemed to assume that the only way to be loving to your church, community and country was to stay home and stay away from other people. I think there’s a lot of different ways churches are choosing to work through this crazy situation and just because some choose to still meet doesn’t mean they don’t care for others well-being. In some cases, creating a space for people to see one another, even if it’s risky, maybe the most loving thing you could do for them. I’m not trying to be antagonistic or a complainer, I was just wondering if you had considered those points. The work that you do is such a blessing for the kingdom, I’m truly thankful for your ministry. Blessings!

[@joeheppell7085]

Excellent point and I completely agree.

[@tonyabrown7796]

I am in Australia and out of all the God loving, biblically informed people I know, only 1 does not support Trump. On here they talk about Trump being about creating wealth, but as far as I can see he is more about creating jobs; especially for low and middle income earners. They even admit the bible (and so God) is not necessarily against wealth. Look at who the extremely wealthy seem to be supporting anyway (big tech etc); The democrats. Trump is being supported more by regular Americans. Contrast the above-bible not being absolutely against wealth, to what it is explicitly against: •murder- democrats overwhelmingly support abortion up to birth, some even beyond birth. •Social justice. Eg. In the court case it said do real justice, and not to penalise the rich man just because the other man is poor. Democrats are working for equality of outcomes, not opportunities. •Murder, violence and stealing. Kamala Harris said the BLM "protests" were necessary and they "should" keep going. Protests where people were murdering and/or beating people, and burning, looting and vandalising shops. The bible also advocates working. If you don't work, you don't eat. The democrats do not fully support this and historically end up with a lot more people being supported by the governement. They also support movements to encourage homosexuality and transgenderism, discourage nuclear families, all which is antibiblical. Trump is not perfect but Jesus wasn't running in the election so he was the best choice available.

[@ByDesign333]

the term "Christian ethics" seems an oxymoron to me...systems of morality belong to this world...the commandments of Jesus belong to the Kingdom of God.

[@slamrn9689]

Seriously? You do not know your history sir; "Christian ethics" changed Western civilization, and hence the world. I suggest reading historian Tom Holland's Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World.

[@garywilson2293]

@@slamrn9689 While I agree that Christianity has molded the world there is no way to go back 2000 years and redo the "test" with another system of ethics and morals to see if the outcome would be different.

[@slamrn9689]

@@garywilson2293 I do not think you would like the world you'd find without the effects that Christianity has had on the world.

[@garywilson2293]

@@slamrn9689 what like the crusades or the Spanish inquisition or the conquest of the Americas or child sex abuse. Even down to the witch hunts or slavery etc etc etc. Are those the type of effects you are meaning?

[@garywilson2293]

@@slamrn9689 What like the crusades, witch hunts, spanish inquisition, devastation of the Americas, slavery, the third reichs genocidal views etc etc - yeah whats not to like about christianity's effects on the world?

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

Jesus once cursed a fig tree for bearing no fruit when not in season. He would fail as biology teacher. But please point out how any embarrassing inacurracy in the bible is an allegory.

[@pdxnikki1]

Would you like to point out your superior knowledge of Scripture first? I ask because, as a former lifelong atheist who derided it & believed that it couldn't be true because modern science clearly disproved it, I'd like to know what your opinion is about presuppositions of truth. Darwin presupposed that God did not exist prior to any incident. Yet, finding precisely what Scripture described but now absent God and Scripture, he had to concotted a narrative that made sense of all he saw even though the one which already existed he denied a priori. The problem is that in science, yoi can't do that. The field of play is Truth. Us God true or not. You can't declare that He isn't prior to investigation & then investigate from that bias. In order to prove God doesn't exist you have to look FOR evidence of His existence (because there's never evidence of non-existence) & then see where the evidence aligns with Scripture rather than simply declaring that He doesn't exist because there is no evidence. All the evidence IS there. It all fits. I encourage you to dispassionately and rigorously examine the hard evidence and look at compendium sources that can help you see it as well as all other sources. Ask yourself If God of the Bible does exist, what would the evidence show?

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

@@pdxnikki1 So much nonsense. I don't have to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the person making a positive claim. Until evidence of the opposite, the default position is the assumption that there is none. As "a former atheist" you should know that. Can you prove fairies don't exist?

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

@@pdxnikki1 oh and what evidence is there and what fits? Send your discovery to a scientist.

[@cynthiao.543]

Omg, can’t believe what I’m hearing....bye bye....

[@calebp6114]

My thoughts before the discussion... If Jesus authentically claimed to be divine, then we are left with several options: Either he was divine or he wasn't. If he wasn't divine, then he either knew that he wasn't divine, or he didn't know that he wasn't divine. If he didn't know that he wasn't divine, then he was seriously deluded, and likely suffered from a severe mental or cognitive illness. We see no evidence of such a condition from his biographies. If he claimed to be divine, wasn't, and knew that he wasn't, then he must have been a tremendously immoral person. He would have deceived his family and followers, and had them convert from Judaism. Such a massive deception is inconsistent with his moral teachings, and his willingness to die. In either case, if Jesus genuinely claimed to be divine and was just a human, then we should reject him as a moral teacher, as he either had a serious disconnect with reality or was an immoral deceiver. What do people think?

[@biggregg5]

@Capaldi News Service Doesn't seem like it.....maybe mirroring, showing flaws in CS Lewis' thinking in the meantime.

[@chad969]

"If he didn't know that he wasn't divine, then he was seriously deluded, and likely suffered from a severe mental or cognitive illness. We see no evidence of such a condition from his biographies." What evidence would we expect to see in his biographies if that were true of Jesus? Of the set of people throughout history who didn't know that they weren't divine, what other indications of severe mental or cognitive illness did they exhibit?

[@1960taylor]

If he wasn’t, it would have been over in 3 minutes.

[@calebp6114]

@Sticky Steve The options I gave assumed that his claims to be divine were really made by him, which although disputed, are likely the case.

[@2xvelcroeasystepper992]

@Sticky Steve Not every christian reads every part of the bible as completely literal. Poetry needs to be read as poetry, parables as parables, ect... The flood account is included in that i think. I wonder why you value human life and specificly children? I would submit for your consideration that Jesus' ethics aligns closely with yours in that regards.

[@briendoyle4680]

Now let's tell you a story about a man named Jesus: A god assaulted, by proxy, inseminated a 'virgin' named Mary, in order to bring his son incarnate into our world. A cowardly action... Mary and her fiance?, ....Joseph, had to travel to Bethlehem to register for the census. There Mary gave birth to a son of a god.? God put a star in the sky to guide people to the baby? In a dream a god told Joseph to take his family to Egypt. Then this god stood by and watched as Herod killed thousands and thousands of babies in Israel in an attempt to kill Jesus. (wow!) As a man, god's son claimed that he was 'God' incarnate: "I am the way, the truth and the life," he said. This man performed many 'miracles'. He healed lots of sick people. He turned water into wine. These miracles prove that he is God? Miracles?? But he was eventually given the death sentence and killed by crucifixion. His body was placed in a tomb. But three days later, the tomb was empty.?? And the man, alive once again but still with his wounds (so anyone who doubted could see them and touch them), appeared to many people in many places. Then he ascended into heaven and now sits at the right hand of his god the father almighty, never to be seen again. Today you can have a personal relationship with the Lordy Jesus. You can pray to this man and he will answer your prayers. He will cure your diseases, rescue you from emergencies, help you make important business and family decisions, comfort you in times of worry and grief, etc. This man will also give you eternal life, and if you are good he has a place for you in heaven after you die. The reason we know all this is because, after the man died, four people named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote accounts of the man's life. Their written attestations are proof of the veracity of this story. This is the story of a Jesus. "" Do you believe this story? any debate on this is useless, since a god needs to be proven - First. FIRST !

[@johncook19]

Jesus was a political creation by the Romans and hence came the Roman/Christian gospels. C'est la vie!

[@jeffreyhughes3883]

Why would the Romans create a fictionalized character that challenged the divinity and authority of Rome?

[@johncook19]

Listen to Joseph Atwill's Cesars Messiah on KZbin and you will understand much better his rational on the subject. Why was the new testament written in Greek and not Aramaic.

[@jeffreyhughes3883]

@@johncook19 That seems like quite the jump in logic to assume the gospels are Roman Proganda just because they were written In Greek. Especially because Jesus subverts Roman authority throughout. If the gospels are Roman propaganda, they didn't do a very good job.

[@iainrae6159]

Follow me .......or else. Hardly a moral position.

[@martinploughboy988]

So why would Jesus' words to the rich young ruler, who had problems with loving his wealth, apply to all Christians? Christians aren't called to be ascetics. The idea that Jesus' teaching is consonant with the 'secular'* world is simply false. Jesus again and again points to faith as being at the heart of being a Christian, something that doesn't fit secular ideas. I'd have said that the parable of the rich man & Lazarus clearly taught that the soul & body were different and were separated at death. The idea that a secular society could produce a free and just society is disproven by every secular society that has ever existed, from France, through Soviet Russia to today's China. Those societies who are caring have all derived these views from their Christian history. It's a pity that there was no Christian on the programme to point these things out. *Ancient Greece was far from secular.

[@biggregg5]

Probably something less

[@simonskinner1450]

Jesus came to show the way to get to heaven. He pronounced how the Mosaic Jews lacked faith, the actions of their convictions, and to spread his religion of the Holy Trinity.

[@cynthiao.543]

Mr Jethani makes several untrue statements about Trump and the election....ruins it for me....

[@hubb1115]

The more Biblical literate they are, should lean them more towards Trump because of what he has done! What is the other option, Biden??? If you think a Christian should not vote for any candidate or to vote for Biden, you are in sin or you are decieved. What an ignorant statement on Skye’s part after such an amazing quote on the American church wanting Jesus’ identity but not his ethics. Wow!

[@AFFL1CTED1]

I was thinking the same thing. How does supporting the democratic party which is pro abortion and pro LGBTQ align with a Christians views? Have we forgotten what happened at Sodom and Gomorrah? The Republican party is far from Christ's teachings as well, true, but closer than the democratic party anyway, if only by a little. In this situation you can only choose the lesser of two evils.

[@mandooakes8509]

I'm watching this late. I agree that the Christian on the program is completely wrong on this. The more you take the teaching of Jesus the more you would move toward Trump when the options are Hillary or Biden.

[@dcb774]

Thank you! Highly offensive. I hear some Christians( just as in popular culture) make cutting remarks, such as this, toward politically Right leaning folk. They never explain themselves, they never mention the hideous behavior of Leftist . They throw out rude straw man points and move on. It is extremely off putting, and worrisome, if Christians can’t bridge the political divide then we are truly in trouble.

[@dcb774]

@Orthodox Christos I can't speak for all right wingers, but no as Christian's we should not insult or degrade. It would be nice to talk issues and not insults.

[@dcb774]

@Orthodox Christos ooh dude! I just read your other comments- not a Christian? Who are you to say? What kind of celestial being are you, that you wield the ability to make that call. Tell me "Love they neighbor " "Love they enemy " "Forgive 70x7" what do these mean to you in regards to President Trump? What does it mean in regards to his supporters?

[@andrewa0099]

Would love to ask Skye if one can be as good as a Christian as he is and still vote for Trump. I suspect his answer would be a no. As a Trump voter I actually get along better with non-Christian Biden voters than with Progressive Evangelicals like Skye. Disappointing.

[@JamesDoepp]

Perhaps time then to self-reflect, and ask yourself if your allegiances are where they should be.

[@jeffreyhughes3883]

Perhaps the reason for this is because your worldview is formed more by American political ideology than the teachings of Jesus. You should read Skye's book!