Was Jesus Literate?

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Nearly everyone today assumes that Jesus could read and write. But is that historically plausible? There is only one story in the New Testament where Jesus is shown to be able to read (Luke 4) and he is never said to be able to write (except in the story of the Woman Caught in Adultery that was added by scribes only later John 7-8). In this episode we consider the literacy rates of antiquity (very low!), and discuss who could learn to read and then write, how they were educated, and whether it is likely that an impoverished dayworker from a poor family in a remote backwater of the empire was one of them.
Megan asks:
-It’s a pretty fair assumption that in the modern world, in many cultures, basically all children go to school at least to learn to read and write. Was that common in the ancient world?
-Do we have estimates for the percentage of people who were literate in the Roman empire?
-Was this different in ancient Jewish societies?
-In practical terms, what exposure would Jewish people have had to writing in both their religious and secular lives?
-How about the pagan cults? Were written texts an important part of non-Jewish religious practice?
-What evidence do we have for Jesus being able to read?
-How about writing, is it likely that Jesus could write?
-Would it have been unusual in Jesus’ time for a religious leader to be illiterate?
-What about the disciples, do we have evidence for their literacy?
-Who is the first literate Christian that we know of?
-While literacy may not have played a key role during Jesus’ lifetime, modern Christianity is defined by the Bible - a collection of written documentation. Can we say when Christianity became a book-based religion?
-Do we know of any early Christian groups that were not somehow reliant on the written word?
-Paul’s letters are some of the foundational documents of the New Testament, and obviously required literacy for both their creation and dissemination. Would you say this reliance on literacy is characteristic of the spread of Christianity, or is this an e-ception that happens to have been preserved?
-Were the Gospels meant as missionary literature to teach about the significance of Jesus?

[@arj.1919]

One way that this podcast is exceptional is that there is an expert interviewing another expert who happens to be from a different field. Maybe it's been said before, but it would be great to have a second one where Ehrman interviews her about ancient Mesopotamia. Anybody with me?

[@WoefulMinion]

@@KSayar The creator tried that and no one bothered to install the updates....

[@HernanToroA]

Only a moronic poor excuse of a "creator" would have written his message to all humankind in the most absurd and ambiguous mean: a language whose written form lacked vowels.🤦

[@billebrooks]

@@KSayar Microsoft had no updates in the 1970's, because Microsoft BASIC was stored in Read Only Memory, and there was no possible way to update it. When the IBM PC came out in 1980, it had only RAM, no ROM, and that change opened up the possibility of updates.

[@WoefulMinion]

@@KSayarIf the creator took care of everything, it wouldn't be a relationship. We would just be playthings.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Apparently the Son of God could read but could not or chose not to write, instead leaving it to others to record his words for future generations. The end result is an endless argument among his followers.

[@gordonlynn8300]

apparently not. it's only in the last 120 years that most people were literate ,when Public Schools were built.

[@Aliasjax]

I'm not sure that "most" people today can read, if read means comprehend. And this isn't snark. I think we greatly overestimate literacy skills today.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

Read? Most people can’t even speak. The most elementary rules of simple grammar completely elude them.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Literacy has multiple components, you are correct. The average American has literacy issues and comprehensive literacy sits at around 50% of the population. Which is still pretty high compared to historical literacy rates. But it's pretty abysmal for the wealthiest state in history.

[@pagosabob10]

I have to agree with you. The population is behind the curve on most subjects really. The older I get, the more I realize I don't know, but it's not from not trying which means reading and listening.

[@tomrhodes1629]

Look at the huge FOX viewership to discover all you need to know about the mental capacity of a dumbed-down society. Jesus literate? Jesus was a cave man. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@KathrynTanner-t8f]

Afraid you're right about our literacy skills. I'm frequently shocked at the grammatical bloopers and unclear writing of many of my friends, almost all of whom are college-educated.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Always look forward to these - a highlight of my week. Thanks Bart and Megan (and the team behind them).

[@exmormonroverpaula2319]

My late brother-in-law was blind from birth. He could read Braille, but Braille books are big and heavy, and awkward to carry around. He went to church regularly, and taught Sunday School for many years. He usually did not take any books to church with him. He had a huge amount of scripture memorized.

[@A-man-in-the-box]

That is epic

[@mrsatire9475]

Did he pass that memorization of scripture on to you?

[@exmormonroverpaula2319]

@@mrsatire9475, sorry, no. I do have some scripture memorized, but not nearly as much as my brother-in-law did.

[@mrsatire9475]

@@exmormonroverpaula2319 Oh well, it's extremely hard to pass that on

[@mojoman2001]

​@@mrsatire9475 -- Fake it 'til you make it. 😱

[@MG-ot2yr]

It never made sense that if Jesus was allegedly some son of god then why wouldn't he have written the New Testament himself. Instead, he thought leaving it man to corrupt and butcher his message so badly that more than 40,000 different denominations branched off, as well as hate groups who corrupted it as well. A real man-god certainly would have had the capability to produce a holy book, so perfect and timeless, that it would be incorruptible and undeniably from a divine source. Of course no such holy books have ever existed, and man continues to manufacture gods in man's image.

[@scienceexplains302]

And it would be in indestructible forms, changing to the language of the person reading it.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

Unless you purport to be “a real god” yourself, I submit that you’re in no position to say what “a real god” would do.

[@scienceexplains302]

@@jeffryphillipsburns Is your god omnipotent or not?

[@MG-ot2yr]

@@jeffryphillipsburns Of course I can since the gods that people claim exist are man made, I can certainly challenge these ideas on that same level from another human perspective. You would have to prove a "real god" actually exists for your argument to hold any water, otherwise its just people challenging other peoples assertions, like any debate.

[@TorianTammas]

@@jeffryphillipsburnsAs you are not a real god you can't say what a real good would say.

[@cheeseman417]

Just for a laugh, they should have an episode where Bart appears for an episode as his talking Avatar on Paulogia!😂😂😂

[@Brian-Urban9048]

It would be great if they switched their glasses design for an April 1st episode.

[@johnburn8031]

When I was a Christian, I never understood why Jesus never wrote anything.

[@spankflaps1365]

It would have been considered as evidence of sedition by the Romans, and blasphemy by the Pharisees. But on the other hand, George Harrison couldn’t read music!

[@paradisecityX0]

For the sake of argument; if a guy wrote about himself claiming divinity, would you believe him? Or the testimonies of others who knew him?

[@numbat8938]

​@paradisecityX0 Christians believe Paul when he wrote about his having met a man who'd been dead for decades along a road, and decreed himself an apostle and sent letters to Jesus's scattered cults negating a lot of Jewish laws and "covenants" while reforming it into what is now, ostensibly, Christianity. My guess is that most Christians would believe literally anything bound between the covers of their holy texts.

[@HkFinn83]

Ok but this has nothing to do with being a Christian or not or knowledge of Jesus. You could just as easily ask why Caesar never wrote anything of himself.

[@paradisecityX0]

@numbat8938 Actually Jesus (died in 33 AD would have been dead no more than a few years since the Road To Damascus experience was approximately during the reign of Caligula. I know you're trying to be edgy when you use the word cult but at the time, it generically meant "a form of worship". Your guess is wrong, bub

[@NPC-rq6vn]

This is a problem I had with the Bible. Jesus has the power to turn water into wine, heal the blind, can cast demons into pigs, and the ability to predict the future but did not have the power or foresight to read and write?

[@troyfreedom]

Great question. It really does boil down to very simple questions.

[@lbamusic]

NPC-rq6vn... You have proved how absurd it is to believe Jesus did not have the power nor agency, to read and write. As God, Jesus is Omnicient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent, among a host of other non-earthly attributes....

[@sarahjones79]

He clearly chose not to

[@juanausensi499]

@@sarahjones79 But why? Obviously he wanted his story to be written

[@sarahjones79]

@@juanausensi499 He left it to humans to write. He had already written the 10 ‘commandments’ - better translated as instructions

[@Steven_Rowe]

There is one passage in the so-called Gospels where Jesus is reading in the Synagogue, and i have often thought why would Jesus be able to read, he wasnt from a rich background in factcborn in a stable, not exactly 5 star accommodation. We also do not know how all the gospel stories came about as they were not eye witness accounts and were written in Greek decades afterchis death. We also have Paul who wrote his version of Christianity which is so different from the teachings of Jesus..

[@TorianTammas]

Synagogues existed only outside of Israel as the temple stood. They were a thing for Jews far away from the temple in the diaspora. Yes Luke did not know this in his fan fiction, but as inventive as he was as incompetent as he was in geography and history

[@dianadeejarvis7074]

He was born in a stable because the inns were all full, not because Joseph couldn't pay.

[@Steven_Rowe]

@dianadeejarvis7074 no that not right, he was born in a stable because the inn keeper was antisemitic..

[@crede9427]

We need to ask the same question of magats

[@ilpezkato]

AGREED!

[@debbieshrubb1222]

Megan asks the questions I would like to ask. Great episode

[@allanwilliams2079]

Learn to read Debbie. Luke 4:16-20 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. [17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, [18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, [19] To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. [20] And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. If you do, there will not be any need for such a question. [Accept what the Bible says: unless you can provide other information which proves it wrong: it makes no sense wanting it to say what you want it to say.]

[@debbieshrubb1222]

@@allanwilliams2079 other than recognising your rudeness I have no idea what you are referring to.

[@allanwilliams2079]

@@debbieshrubb1222 Megan asked if Jesus was able to read. You said that you would like to ask the same questions. I gave you the writing of the Bible which shows that Jesus read. This information is there long before Bart or Megan was born. So, if you still want to ask the question which Megan asked, then it means that you have not read, or is unable to read the information contained in the bible.

[@debbieshrubb1222]

@@allanwilliams2079 Megan across all these videos asks great questions. My thoughts are you could do with asking a few intelligent questions yourself. I will stick to scholars like Erhman thanks for informed opinion.

[@RadicalCaveman]

@@allanwilliams2079 The problem is that you are assuming the what is in the Bible is correct. That is a fundamental blunder.

[@WagesOfDestruction]

Given the limitations of small-town life in 1st century Galilee, it seems unlikely Jesus would have had regular personal access to actual books or manuscripts to develop advanced reading abilities, even if he did have some very basic literacy instruction.

[@josipag2185]

Oral Torah was antient Jewish tradition. This is how this religion is so connected to the ethnicity and how survived the test of the times.

[@WagesOfDestruction]

@@josipag2185 true but I am not sure of the relevancy in this period and region. Maybe outside of israel or later

[@josipag2185]

@@WagesOfDestruction No. Pharisees were the sect (of wich btw, rabbinacal judaism of today was formed) 1st century CE that wasn't for exclusivity of Written Torah, unlike Sadduces who were rich, exclusive, privileged high priests. And priests that rebeled were Essens living like monks, so no woman allowed, and like both were into purity (they didn't even do funtions in toilets on Sabbath) probably ex-priests ,and John the Baptist was either one of those or highly influenced (and later that tradition priests and no woman continued). Pharisees were kinda commoners that knew scriptuers and were also all about the rules etc, but not only what was written word by word. So, you see. 1st century CE was challenging times in Judea, and ofc those three sects, plus Christians plus zealots weren't even the only ones. But Pharisees teachings that later led to rabbinical modern Judaism (and fun part is the most important rabbi sad Leviticus 19:18 was the most important like Jesus, basically but later) and Christianity survived destruction of the Second Temple and 2000yrs later.

[@WagesOfDestruction]

@@josipag2185 okay, and why is this relevant to whether Jesus was literate and, if so, how highly literate?

[@oldernu1250]

Nazareth was four miles from Sephora, which was a Hellenized town 10 times its size. If Joseph was a carpenter, that's where he would work. But surely, 9 of 10 people did not read, even fewer wrote.

[@rjcarter2904]

Bart, you and I have a lot of common beliefs/thoughts.

[@tomrhodes1629]

Something to brag about, eh. Jesus was a cave man. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@UnlimitedLives1960]

Poor old Egyptian scribe. Achieved that sense of immortality through ink but is forever known as that one guy who couldn't spell his own name.

[@mickimicki]

Shakespeare spelled his name in several different ways.

[@mrsatire9475]

I feel bad for the Egyptian pharaoh that had no name

[@andrelegeant88]

A few points about literacy in the ancient world that I think Bart hits on, but that really need to be emphasized for modern people. Literacy was not as specialized a skill as it had been in, e.g., the Bronze Age, but it was still a specialized skill. When Bart says that most people listened to books, he doesn't mean just the illiterate. Even wealthy, literate people did not read in silence. Reading in silence to yourself appears to have been developed in monastic traditions. We take it for granted because we have infinite means to transmit the written word, but prior to printing and cheap paper, there was little need to read silently because there were too few texts to read. A reader was a worker turning the written text into speech like a record player, hence why slaves were taught to read. Even Cicero rarely, if ever, would have read to himself. Similarly, people did not usually write by their own hand. Letters, books, poetry, etc. were usually dictated, especially at the level of the elites. Literate soldiers might write their own letters home, for example, because they would have had too few slaves or secretaries available. But certainly illiterate people were using literate scribes to take dictation, and those letters or writings were then sent to people who usually had someone specially designated to read the words on the page. This all means that literacy does not carry the same weight or importance that it does in our own time. These are oral societies where oral communication is transmitted by the written word. These are not yet fully written societies. The importance of this always comes back to, if Jesus or his immediate disciples didn't write what he said, how do we know it is accurate? It's a fair question that can be applied to nearly everything written in the classical world outside a very small number of first-hand sources (Cicero, Caesar). Thucydides applies what is essentially the gold standard for historical writing in the classical world, and he admits that his speeches are not verbatim. He writes, "Some I heard myself, others I got from various quarters; it was in all cases difficult to carry them word for word in one's memory, so my habit has been to make the speakers say what was in my opinion demanded of them by the various occasions, of course adhering as closely as possible to the general sense of what they really said." (Thuc. I.24). Similarly, the quotes attributed to Jesus would have been understood as presenting the general sense of what he said, but the words themselves would have been understood as being what the author deemed to have been demanded by the occasion. And to the people of the classical world, that's as good as you get.

[@willmosse3684]

Excellent comment

[@BeachsideHank]

This reminds me of the daily communicators in Cuban cigar- making factories- lectors. The *factory workers* themselves hired lectors-rather than factory owners-to entertain and inform them as they performed the monotonous task of hand-rolling hundreds of cigars each day. The material that the lectors read was chosen democratically-the workers would vote for what stories they wanted to hear.

[@davidkeller6156]

It was also common practice when writing histories about people for the author to make up the speeches that were attributed to their subject.

[@andrelegeant88]

@@davidkeller6156 Yes. There was no expectation to get the words right just the general sense. In the classical world it was also completely permissible for an historian to make assumptions about events of which he had no knowledge in order to get to the outcome he knew happened. This seems really bizarre to us, but in the classical world such deductive logic was considered a valid means to arriving at the truth. (Of course it's why science was so bad in this period, too.) A final consideration when dealing with any historical texts: each time a scribe reproduced the text, the scribe would be aware that the prior scribe may have messed something up, and so the scribe might remove, add, or clarify things that he in good faith believed the prior scribe left out. The fact that the precises words would not have been what the "original" version had was irrelevant.

[@Lund.J]

Science was not bad in the Classical period: Who among today's scientists rises higher than e.g. Plato: No scientist even comes close to him; they don't even understand what he wrote about in e.g. Timaeus or what he thought about matter. General geniuses are few and far between; there are maybe one in a thousand years if even that. Then we come to Jesus, to the Son of Man, who changed the course of history. And here the question is asked: "Could he read or write?" The course of history was changed by the spiritual forces that worked through Jesus; These forces act, not only on the physical level, but on the level of the self or ego ("I am", that is the name of God - YHWH). To Bart, this (ontology) seems insignificant (side point). Does he know about the Essenes ? Does he know Kabbala well ? Does he know about Jesus' CONSCIOUS mission ? Or has everything happened again by "coincidence"?

[@mrsatire9475]

Jesus wanted to ensure his message reached everyone on the planet and no one received the wrong or altered message. So he never left his region and never wrote anything down.

[@rogeriopenna9014]

I am pretty sure Jesus was literate already when he signed with Palmeiras. And surely when he moved to England to play for Manchester City and now Arsenal He did some miracles, like impossible goals, but Brazilians crucified him at the 2018 world cup for not scoring a single goal. But he resurrected 3 days later... I mean, years.

[@DavidSmith-vr1nb]

🤣😂😅🙃

[@CJAndrew-n7w]

I see what you did there... 🔥

[@rogeriopenna9014]

@@CJAndrew-n7w always remember brazilians don´t spell J like Spanish speakers do. Pronounce Jesus with a J similar to English and you guys will be "closer to the truth"

[@PIA-tj5hc]

I love the format of this podcast & I live listening to Dr. Bart!!

[@mrsatire9475]

@daniele.3361 HE is incorrect about what?

[@davidkeller6156]

Knowing what I’ve learned about literacy rates in Israel at the time of Jesus, somewhat spoiled the show Chosen for me. I’m not a Christian anymore but watch the show like I would any supposed history based show. The last episode I watched was when they were preparing for the Sermon on the Mount. First, they have Matthew following Jesus around with a book taking notes and helping Jesus prepare for the sermon. Then they have his followers posting flyers around the town and also handing them out to people on the street. At the time they’re struggling just to eat and somehow they can buy papyrus, which I learned was fairly expensive. And who was it that sat around copying all these flyers since we know his followers were most likely illiterate? Turned the show into a comedy of errors for me.😂 As someone who watches history based shows I seem to have this problem a lot, though. I tend to read about, and look up the real history of shows I’m watching.

[@paulinelambert7780]

and did one of the disciple (and scribe) follow Jesus around when he was being personally questioned by Pontius Pilate? were they also present at the bottom of his cross taking notes when he feeblely mumbled those immortal last words (the exact words really depends on which gospel you read)? lol

[@davidkeller6156]

@@ILoveWhoHeIs “of course he spoke Greek.” Why? He lived in a rural part of the Roman Empire. There was no reason for him to speak Greek since he wouldn’t have been exposed to it unless he lived in a larger city. In Medieval England French was the lingua Franca spoken by the aristocracy and highly educated. Peasants and common folk didn’t speak it.

[@stanleywilliams4429]

Apart of literacy is the ability to quote scripture. If you don’t have a book to refer to or study, you’re not going to remember anything that’s been written down. It was also common to use a slate with chalk to make notes. Read what you have written.

[@JeffRebornNow]

You would enjoy Gore Vidal's book, "Live From Golgotha."

[@stevearmstrong6758]

One of the things that hit me as I watched part of The Chosen (at church) was that the way the writers put words in the mouths of the characters is very similar to how gospel writers put words into the mouths of the disciples, Jesus and all the other characters in the New Testament. I was a fish out of water at that church (My wife’s denomination) and was very questioning of things they said and taught. After we watched the episode, I brought up my observation on the Chosen (they did ask if anybody had any other thoughts and mine are generally in the “other” category). Most didn’t understand what I was saying but then the preacher “got it” and immediately shut things down by going into his Pavlovian rant about the inerrancy of scripture and that every word spoken by Jesus is an exact quote…. I go elsewhere now with my wife and try not to ask questions…

[@jackbrown8052]

If Jesus was really the son of an all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent God birthed by a virgin woman then it can be assumed he could read and write Aramaic and many other languages. After all as the son of an all knowing God surely his abilities would be similar to his father's.

[@AnthonyPerko-BOE]

Great episode, as always. All due respect, but the three "outsmart Bart" questions had already been asked before, I think on an installment concerning Mark. So I don't know if that's an error, and maybe I'm the only one weird enough to remember, but respectfully that seemed like it was cheating a bit.

[@davidkeller6156]

I think that was spliced in from the other video. It’s exactly the same.

[@luke-alex]

Yes, it was quite eerie. The other video is kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnTcd6ppn9Oii80 and it's the one about Matthew. He gets only 1/3 last time, and 2/3 second go!

[@oldpossum57]

One my mother’s grandfathers, a man who died in 1936, was illiterate. .He had steady employment with the one of the national railways. One of his grandsons taught him to sign his name. Not a great idea. He started using “cashier’s checks” picked up in the bank lobby to write checks for local charities.

[@mattfarmer4621]

Wait a minute here!!! I thought jesus wrote the Lord of the Rings....

[@lenniebarrere4586]

If he was fictional what difference does it make?

[@marybethcompetiello199]

These two have to validate their careers of disproving Christ as Savior. Convincing people Jesus was illiterate would have them believe He is even more insignificant and that makes these "scholars" very happy. All I notice is that each time Bart takes a shot at Jesus, he laughs nervously. As he should. Just listen to what he says as he peddles his new course during the intermission of this video. When he refers to New Testament information that some other scholars don't even know. He said, "But I'll be doing so in lay persons' terms so that you can understand." Wow, thanks. How condescending. Bart leads to you to a DEAD end. Jesus teaches LOVE HOPE PEACE. Why not try it? What have you to lose?

[@sasamoal]

Islamic narrative is the solution for your conundrum. Jesus was human not a God ,but a prophet of God. Prophets not necessarily be lettered. Full stop.

[@MilesfromNowhere21]

I know a Bible teacher who would say since Jesus is God He reads, writes, and speaks all languages past and present.

[@GlorifiedTruth]

Yes, but even God can't speak Hungarian.

[@dann285]

to the knowledge of the mystery of God,both of the Father and of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

[@stevearmstrong6758]

Not sure he can write Fortran on punch cards…😂

[@ballasog]

@@stevearmstrong6758 Can you?

[@stevearmstrong6758]

@@ballasog lol! I’ll never know - I dropped that class in 1977…had to wait in the lab to get a turn at the punch machine then take your cards to the lab to be run overnight…it was insanely frustrating and time consuming….much preferred PASCAL and Basic where you could use a CRT terminal…

[@robinmacallister6522]

If "Jesus" (if he actually ever existed,) was the King of Kings, was gifted with riches at birth, why wouldn't he have the benefit of an education? Of better yet, if he is essentially god he should have been born with the knowledge to read, write, and speak every language on the planet world? * Why wouldn't he write his own Gospels????

[@TheArghnono]

Yeah I did watch this episode last time it was posted here. This is three weeks in a row with confusion. Great show, but production routines could be improved.

[@BlueBarrier782]

LOL of course he wasn't. A poor day laborer in some small village 2000 years ago? Common, lol.

[@lamalama9717]

It undermines a claim to divinity and the possession of various super powers if his level of literacy was less than your average 5 year old today.

[@lamalama9717]

@daniele.3361 so a carpenter from a village in Galilee was fully literate at a time when only 3% of people were? Anyway, it seems strange that a fully literate person never bothered to write down his highly important message, rather than relying on later interpreters who have given us 2000 years of conflicting views as to what he meant.

[@josipag2185]

O, and being poor also, right? 😂😂😂

[@landonwiese6850]

If he existed probably not. His profession wasn’t scholarly. If anyone in that time being a woodworker/carpenter wouldn’t require written language to live a normal life. Most people would not be literate. Certainly not a laborer.

[@mrnarason]

I've listen to all of the podcasts episodes and I swear I heard this already

[@Zen_Traveler]

I was thinkin' the same thing but Meghan has a new haircut and Dr Ehrman is talking about yesterday's election. 🤔 I haven't watched this one yet and saving it for tomorrow.

[@tomrhodes1629]

Too much sugar rots the teeth, too much propaganda rots the brain. Jesus was a cave man. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@teacherrussell5206]

Jesus couldn't read, and to honor him, most Christians don't actually read the bible.

[@brianruppert1071]

It seems fitting that reading wasn't an issue for him, in a sense. He was concerned with the poor and would have been enmeshed in the dominant oral culture of Nazareth and everywhere else in the ancient world. He would have heard stories and teachings of the Torah and deployed them to help others.

[@canwelook]

If you're talking about Jesus as just an ordinary bloke, that reasoning might make sense. If you're talking about Jesus as a divine being wanting to clearly communicate to all the most important message ever told, it makes absolutely no sense at all.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@canwelook These are our choices? “Ordinary bloke” or Almighty God? How about significant historical figure?

[@canwelook]

@jeffryphillipsburns Yes. Now your logic rules out divine being, your logical options are reduced to historical figure like Jack the Ripper, or myth like King Arthur.

[@andrelegeant88]

@@canwelook let's assume he did write things down. Unless it was re-written, the document would likely just disintegrate within 100 years.

[@travis1240]

@@jeffryphillipsburns I'm going with "ordinary bloke" who was mythologized into a significant figure. The myth became a lot more important than the man.

[@Aubury]

A better question, was he a good tradesman, carpentry is a worthy skill, but no recorded opinion exists.

[@randallbessinger1309]

I so look forward to this episode each week.

[@tomrhodes1629]

You think you will find answers here??? Jesus was a cave man. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@Sportliveonline]

yes Jesus speaks Spirit

[@davidkeller6156]

@daniele.3361 Care to elaborate!

[@mrsatire9475]

@daniele.3361 Still waiting ...

[@robertyoung2661]

The graffiti left at Pompeii and elsewhere in the Roman empire was written by people without any training in reading. Some intelligent small children, when explained the principles of phonetic writing, can read a word like "stop" a few hours later, after digesting it. My guess is that many people in antiquity could slowly sound out many words in any phonetic writing system.

[@andybeans5790]

Glad to catch this episode the first time it's uploaded 😉 I'm signing a petition to remove my MP for being yet another Tory sex pest this week!

[@thorpeaaron1110]

Doubt it will go anywhere.

[@stanwoody4988]

Speaking of scribe's errors, how come Bart's name is written with a lower case "b?"

[@crede9427]

God told me that Jesus could write, despite the historical unlikelyhood. Therefore,I believe Jesus had a PhD, that's what I believe no matter what research shows or whatever anyone else says, mostly because I am afraid that what my parents and pastors plastered into my brain as a chikd, isn't true.

[@MossyMozart]

@crede9427 - He probably also had a driver's license and was a licensed pilot.

[@pagosabob10]

HA! :-)

[@docbauk3643]

Almost no one read or wrote back then. That’s why we talk about an oral history. IMHO l think to think Jesus was literate is kind of silly. The son of a carpenter does not get educated. Having said that being the son of God one would think he would of done an autobiography or something like that.

[@chrisdsouza8685]

The knowledge of Bart Ehrman is simply astounding.

[@kaygee1623]

AKA The knowledge of man.

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

Too bad he is on the road to hell.

[@chrisdsouza8685]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 Not at all. I spoke to God and he confirmed that everything Bart said about Jesus is correct. God also told me to tell you to apologise to Bart, if you don't, God will send you to hell.

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

Who is this god, who talks to you?

[@chrisdsouza8685]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 The true God.

[@JavierBonillaC]

Didn’t Jesus invent Calculus? Oh no, he didn’t exist, that was Leibniz.

[@iananderson1901]

I love this show but does anyone else think the social dialogue in the openings of these feels fake? Forced?

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

I can’t tell (or couldn’t before I started skipping these bits) if it’s fake, but it seems unnecessary to me, and I find it very tedious.

[@Shawn-q3x]

Many are called, but few chosen (Matthew 22:14): As we can see today, many preachers, teachers, and bishops etc. are not speaking the truth exactly as Jesus did; very few preachers are teaching the true nature of God. Most go against what God has said through His Son; they claim that the Son is God instead of the Father, which is a lie. Jesus said God, his Father, is the only God (John 17:3). People will say Jesus was never created, yet Jesus said God has given him life (John 5:26). All throughout history, man has leaned to their own understanding, which is against God (Proverbs 3:56). This will continue to happen to those without the Revealer, which is he the Holy Spirit sent from God the Father (John 14:26). It is the blind leaders of the blind (Matthew 15:14). For those who believe but continue to speak against the words of our Lord Jesus, their [the lost’s] blood will be required at their hands (Ezekiel 3:18). We are not to change a single word from Jesus, or we will deal with Revelation 22:18-19.

[@jaflenbond7854]

All human beings are free to live and exist on earth wherever, whatever, and however they want to live and exist.... all are free to choose and decide what they want to do with their own lives, dignities, and existence - be rewarded and honored with Eternal Life and existence on earth OR just turn into worthless and useless dusts on earth forever Who are the haters and mockers of the Creator? ANSWER - Atheists and Evolutionists who openly and deliberately trick and deceive their own families, friends, and neighbors to believe their lie and false claim that the Biblical Creator doesn't exist and even if existing is still worthless, cruel, merciless, and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign God are obviously the haters and mockers of the Creator who just don't care even if their hatred, contempt, and mockeries of the Creator's Biblical Sovereignty, will, and commandments bring and cause their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever. Who are the haters and mockers of Jesus Christ? ANSWER - Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who openly and deliberately trick and deceive their own families, friends, and neighbors to reject the Biblical authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless and believe instead their lies, false, and Unbiblical teachings about "Armageddon", "Trinity", "immortality of the souls or the heaven and hellfire doctrine", "rapture", and "reincarnation" are obviously the haters and mockers of Jesus Christ who just don't care even if their hatred, contempt, and mockeries of Jesus Christ's Biblical authority and teachings bring and cause their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever. What is the worth, value, and importance of the authorities, will, and teachings of the Creator and his Christ to imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings? ANSWER - All imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings who gladly and willingly submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as the One given by the Creator all authority in heaven and on earth and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" in their obedience to what were written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 are clearly the worshippers of the Creator and Followers of Jesus Christ on earth who are definitely bringing upon themselves the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and EXISTENCE without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness and death on a safe and peaceful earth without liars, traitors, deceivers, slanderers, perverts, and murderers as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4, 8 How will Worshippers of the Creator live and exist on earth forever if they just die and become worthless and useless dusts on earth? ANSWER - All human beings have no immortal souls and will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 which means, all Atheists, Evolutionists, and Fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions will never be glorified in their make-believe and fairy tale Heaven nor punished and tortured for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell but just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths while worshippers of the Creator who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Jesus Christ's disciples and followers, and many others will not remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead, in the right and proper time and as written in John 11: 25, 26, the Creator will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or the Creator's Kingdom and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

👏🙂 Great video

[@tomrhodes1629]

Great video. Smart people talking about things they know nothing about. Jesus was a cave man. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@jamesfitzpatrick9869]

Dont know as i wasnt around in his day also are you iliturate mate ? James

[@yanstev]

It defies logic that the true "word of God" would need to be communicated in a specific language, either spoken or written. Most devout Christains area unable to speak or read Hebrew or Greek. If Jesus returned to Earth, what language would he speak? It is curious that there are no writings attributed to Jesus in the Bible, particularly when we all know the difficulties of maintaining consistency in oral story telling. Yet, Christians tirelessly continue to quote verbatim Bible passages as evidence.

[@porphyry17]

what? Greek was used in the first place to spread the message to the world as Greek was the lingua franca for like 350 years since Alexander. and Christianity encourages this: people to understand it in their own language. unlike islam which wishes to Arabise everyone.

[@nobunaga240]

In English learning to read is significantly easier than learning to write. They are very different skills. I expect that it’s the same in most languages. So it’s probable that many people could recognise words, signs and simple sentences but not able to produce written words other than a few basics

[@harharharharharharharharha240]

Yup Arabic is easier to read than wrote sadly haha 😂

[@thescoobymike]

@@TheDavidlloydjoneshuh?

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

As Bart pointed out, we are taught to read and write English simultaneously. That makes it difficult to tell which is more difficult.

[@arjan2777]

Writing something readable is even more difficult.

[@808bigisland]

Too meny wortsalat

[@SiqueScarface]

4:00 I have to intervene here. The idea of general literacy came up in the Age of Enlightenment. Frederick II, the Great of Prussia (1712-1786) for instance gave command that each person in Prussia should be able to at least read, write and have basic arithmetical knowledge and thus mandated at least four years of school. A big factor in the idea can be traced back to the Reformation, when first, many protestant states turned former monasteries into public schools. Then, the Counter-Reformation tried to educate the people in the Catholic direction, and especially the Jesuits founded schools everywhere and brought education at least to the towns and cities.

[@carinabakewell2311]

How this blasphemer can call the living incarnate word of God,illiterate is beyond me, it shows he knows nothing...he’s a false teacher and is making money from Gods word..

[@ane-louisestampe7939]

Yep! Same in Denmark. In 1539 Christian III's new church law established schools in connection with churches. 50-60 schools were established, so some people could learn to read the bible. In 1739 Christian VI issued regulations forcing the broad population to school, mainly to enable them to read the bible. Rich people had always employede private teachers to educate their children at home. Finally, in 1814 enlightenment led to Danmark's got it's first regular school law. Industrialization wasn't til the 1850'es

[@harharharharharharharharha240]

I am guessing it will be different in other regions. Guessing some societies in Asia valued education more before the renaissance

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@ane-louisestampe7939 I don’t know schooling in Denmark, but’s it’s very much established that the Industrial Revolution began toward the middle of the eighteenth century (that’s the seventeen hundreds), not the nineteenth century (“1850’s”). That’s pretty basic. You’re one hundred years off.

[@SiqueScarface]

@@harharharharharharharharha240 That's probably so. But we are talking about the Ancient Roman and later Christian dominated parts of the World here. I want to add that we have diaries and letters from soldiers fighting in the Thirty Years War (1618-1648), and not only from those at lieutenant and higher rank. Apparently, basic literacy was not unheard of even at low ranks. On the other hand, being a soldier and surviving for several years at the time made you officer material anyway. But you could also argue that the Thirty Years War was one of the first modern wars, showcasing what to expect from an industrialized warfare.

[@ronaldharding3927]

Are you smart enough to know what a metaphor is?

[@jameswright...]

How about proving Jesus was real before deciding what he could and couldn't do😂

[@MossyMozart]

Dr Rhrman believes in an extant Jesus, though not a supernatural one. For myself, I want to see a vital record of some kind.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@MossyMozart What? The “long-form” birth certificate? An “extant” Jesus, by the way, would be a Jesus who is still living now, two millennia later. I doubt very much that “Dr. Rhyman” believes in this.

[@阳明子]

On this channel Dr Ehrman has a video on the existence of Jesus and even did a debate with Robert White on this exact issue.

[@russellmiles2861]

​@@MossyMozartProfessor Erhman defines Jesus so broadly as to be almost anyone.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@russellmiles2861 “Defines” or describes? Jesus, according to Ehrman as I understand him, was one of a fair number of apocalyptic preachers who lived two millennia ago in the approximate region of modern-day Israel, one of a fair number of people named “Jesus”, one of a fair number of people who were crucified, and so on, but how many people were all of these things at once? Not very many, I submit.

[@rolfme5499]

Jesus is a fictional character. It is able of everything people imagine about that fairy. .

[@mickeydecurious]

Back and then days he would have went with his father to Sephora to work, because it was all hands on deck in order to eat that night.

[@tr48092]

What strikes me as odd is that some people have a hard time accepting that very few Jews 2000 years ago could read because otherwise, how could they know scripture? But at the same time, are perfectly content to acknowledge that in Europe in the middle ages, the bible was in latin and church service was in latin, and not only did most people, peasants, couldn't even understand latin, much less read it

[@fortpark-wd9sx]

Some current self-proclaimed religious conservatives tend to have an ideal view of some earlier historical eras. Finding out more about these eras can be boring and may not suit their worldview. The issue of historical literacy is one where some of these people may not want talk about it. The pre-modernization, pre-promotion of mass education literacy rate was generally estimated at around 30% for men and 5% for women, although the accuracy can be disputed. Not many Roman Jews could read but perhaps the proportion of literate male Roman Jews was more than a few. 😊😊

[@gordonlynn8300]

yes it is , it's just in the last 100 years that most people were literate because of public schools .@daniele.3361

[@francisnopantses1108]

It's likely because our sources about medieval Jews are mainly urbanites who were literate in multiple languages and the need to study Hebrew had become very important culturally. Shtetl life, farming communities, weren't much written about until the 19th century. Meanwhile, the Victorians had an axe to grind with European history and leaned in on the ignorance of medieval parish priests. Actually in the dark ages the church was all about translating Gospel which is how the Latin Bible or Vulgate came to be. Only in the late middle ages with the rise of the dialects of romance as their own languages with their own literature you start to get the tension and then breaking point where they ban vernacular translations. They were all about translating the liturgy into Old English but by early modern English, you're going to hell. So by this time the authoritarian attitude and the likely ignorance of their priests were at their peak. But with Gutenberg's invention the use of writing in a political and religious context and the accessibility of literacy exploded. Martin Luther for example was no slouch, personally translating the Bible into High German, and he was hardly alone.

[@cget]

I can't wrap my head around being able to write, but not read. How do you know what you're writing if you can't read?

[@stigrynning]

Maybe you don't have to understand it if you are just copying a text.

[@juanausensi499]

@@stigrynning Exactly, you are just copying what, for you, are just little drawings

[@murph8411]

Try copying some text in a language you don’t speak or read.

[@MossyMozart]

@@murph8411 - Maybe that's why there are 100,000s of errors in our extant manuscripts..

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

@@murph8411 I have done this. It’s not at all difficult.

[@alhernandezsantana212]

As far as the apostles, what about Luke? I thought he is believed to be a physician.

[@Athanatos250]

It's hard to say. The gospel of Luke was written about 50 years after Jesus' death, and none of the gospels were attributed to the four apostles until the 2nd century by the bishop Iraneus. It's Paul who refers to Luke as a healer in Colossians. So who knows? Maybe?

[@Sammyandbobsdad]

We know that the portion of the Book of John where Jesus says “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” concerning the adulterous woman was added later by scribes, but do you think it was a story that had been going around Christian communities since the beginning, and thus was added where someone thought it might fit, or was it just made up and added. As one of my favorite lessons in the New Testament, I kind of hope it’s something Jesus actually did, not just a nice story six hundred years later.

[@danielwarren3138]

It's certainly possible - but I seriously doubt the writing on the ground is an original part of the story - it seems pretty uncharacteristic of Jesus

[@harharharharharharharharha240]

I think it was added to show that Jesus was abolishing the old law since the old law states that a woman and her lover are to be put to death. Maybe because Jesus doesn’t say that the mosaic law is to be ignored after him

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

What’s wrong with a nice story?

[@Sammyandbobsdad]

@@jeffryphillipsburns nothing, but if it’s just an insert that has no messianic authority, people can ignore the message and then the stones will fly.

[@Sammyandbobsdad]

@@danielwarren3138 to tell people to not worry about their neighbor’s sin but their own, gosh, sounds just like him to me.

[@sanderdeboer6034]

One of the things I never understood! Why there aren’t any writings from both Jesus himself and his family, the three wise men, his temple, the disciples and many others who met him. Just take the 5000 people who witnessed the magic trick with the bread and fish sharing. And if Jesus was truly the son of god and therefore god himself, he should have been able to read and write automatically.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

Are you actually wondering this or are you trying to make some point? Presumably Jesus was not divine and did not divide the loaves and fish. Presumably he, his family, and his few disciples were illiterate. Presumably the three wisemen did not exist. Presumably the others who met him were not that many.

[@sanderdeboer6034]

@@jeffryphillipsburns If Jesus was not divine (and I believe he wasn’t obviously) he was just another mortal who doesn’t deserve so much attention. I agree that if he wasn’t a god, changes are he could not read or write. Considering his background. However because both myself and two billon others in the world today were indoctrinated by our parents, church and schools in believing this Jesus WAS Devine, the fact if he could read and write become interesting. Because if he could not, this has to mean he was not a god. And because we don’t have any writings from him, this makes it highly likely he wasn’t able to write. The reason I added the ‘miracles’ attributed to him, and the three wise men visiting him after birth, is that this means that even during his lifetime he should have been seen as the messiah. And therefore anything he would have written would have been saved and copied. Like we have seen with the ancient Greeks, where many of the writings of important scientist and philosophers were both carefully saved and copied. To the point I can still read the Odyssee almost 3000 years after it was written.

[@mikechristian-vn1le]

For Christians, if Luke says Jesus read, it means Jesus could read.

[@Scorpius65]

Luke didn't know Jesus to answer that question, much less write it himself. Think.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@Scorpius65 he knew plenty of people who were close companions of Jesus.

[@stevearmstrong6758]

@@Scorpius65 Considering that Luke/Acts were probably written 60-80 years after the crucifixion, it very unlikely the author knew Jesus or any of Jesus’ contemporaries. The opening of Luke specifically states that the author was aware of many other narratives concerning Jesus. The author of Luke (as did the author of Matthew) relied heavily on one specific previous narrative - what we call the Book of Mark - but did make some subtle and not so subtle changes. And the common material to Matthew and Luke which isn’t in Mark probably came from another preexisting written narrative. Marcus Borg’s book, The Evolution of the Word, is a good read that lays out a proposed chronology for the development of the New Testament. I’ve always found putting events on a time line very helpful in trying to understand what happened and why.

[@travis1240]

@@brucetucker4847 That's totally unsubstantiated.

[@mikechristian-vn1le]

@@Scorpius65 if I proved that you're wrong about this, would you admit it? SEE MY RESPONSE TO TRAVIS

[@RazzyRazzam]

I've been asking this question for years: Jesus didn't write his own story - was he illiterate or lazy?...or just a myth. OR he was a cult leader that thought the world was going to end - so no need to write down stuff when the end of the world was near. 😊

[@TorianTammas]

He was a dead arameic-speaking preacher who got executed as a criminal by the Romans. This story fragment fell in the hands of fan fiction-producing greeks who made up another human into a god just like Herkules or some other.

[@williamkoscielniak7871]

While no one can ever know, it is entirely possible that Jesus could have known the Torah inside, out, and backwards without ever learning how to read or write. Some people have incredible memory retainment.

[@TacticusPrime]

Except he was a laborer. He wasn't a priest, scribe, or scholar. He very well might have been well versed in the doctrines and interpretations of the Torah from listening to preachers of course. Not being formally educated doesn't mean uninformed completely. But he wouldn't have memorized large parts. That's not something that laborers had time to do.

[@josipag2185]

​​@@TacticusPrime He left this job, he was jobless. He called his diputes to leave what they have and do. So. If you going to preach, and change the system you consider corrupt, you must know more then a thing or two about it, even to gain only few dozen of the followers. But in reality, the Jews had Oral Torah tradition.

[@TacticusPrime]

@@josipag2185 ... you think an unemployed construction worker without any formal education suddenly became thoroughly educated in the Torah?

[@josipag2185]

@@TacticusPrime I am saying that you couldn't possibly know anything about his memory. And Hebrew Bible had more books then Torah. And the Jews actually had in 1 century CE many interpretations of Judaism and things. That is perfecty logical because there has been no other tribe or ppl vinculated their ethnicity with their religion like them. Ever. Their religion and laws and rules is their national story. So, it makes sense that all of them were actually heavy included and interested in Judaism, and ofc practicing Oral Torah they knew enough. Even if regular peasants. Like villagers knew local national poems and songs. They knew the story, even some prophecies even it was antic times. They were progressive. That it is so strong part of their identity, and has always been , on so personal level, not later just Torah, but at some extension and ofc later whole TaNaKh. Add to that Jesus who left his job to preach and was more then regulary interested in religion and who had time. He could have some priest cousin, John the Baptist might had some too My point is like OP we don't know, I don't know, you don't know, but my point is also that being literate/illiterate didn't mean the same as Jewish identity is so connected to Judaism so ofc they were heavily involved more then other tribes/groups as that was thwir lifestyle that separated them from other groups and other semites. Just look at antient Greeks, they for sure were quite diffrent, that supposed agrarian society but unlile celts or iberians, this supposed agrarian (lol) society was in the permanent state of wars, raidings and genocide and in chattel slavery their own ppl and whatnot. The Jews had other traditions. They were tribe- centered, small and closed, familiy- centered, and Judaism is and was that glue what connected them and held them together. The Greeks were war obssesed savages, and The Jews were Judaism obsessed ofc. Like that was the most important thing for them. Their promised land, their ethnicity, escape from slavery, and all this comes from Judaism. They all knew more and were interested more then you guys think as they weren't regular or typical group to start, and that their ethnic consciousness was more prominent then of the others, they had sort of the nation-state 3000 BCE. The Greeks for sure had non of this. Teutonic order that took Prussian name after killing that baltic tribe didn't had this. Otherwise they wouln't took it. But the Jews did back in 1000BCE. And because of the Judaism ofc. Or other example. All Indoeuropeans had similar gods, stories, etc. They just developed different names, because they developed different languages. But those were the same stories, and not always written or read by ppl. Yet, who were interested, got to know those, or even write, from generation to generation. Later, they were adding national or regional stories as they were in the position to create some primitive national identites, etc. But it was important the people to know this. In tribal sense. Jews were just 2000 yrs more progressive in that sense. Idea to understand and respect laws and what God wants was crucial, as they wanted to stay as free as possible and to live in the promised land. So, I would argue that TaNaKh and the Prophets ofc all of them couldn't know, but Torah sure they all have heard in their lives. That part was laws and history, not prophecy and writings and poems. Or just look how much interpretations Judaism has back in 1st century CE. When Christianity started to crack and start to have all these interpretations?

[@albionicamerican8806]

Suppose Jesus was literate enough in Greek and Latin to read philosophy, and he encountered books by Epicurean philosophers early in life when he was forming his adult world view. "You know, this Roman fellow Lucretius is onto something."

[@MrAuskiwi101]

Was a fictional character literate? Of course a fictional character can be whatever one wants to imagine.

[@MrAuskiwi101]

@daniele.3361 Incorrect. He is not mentioned by anyone until decades after his claimed life. This was by the anonymous writer of Mark. Are you claiming a fraulent josephus mention penned some 60 years after as evidence? I hope not. How about you provide some actual evidence. Be the first ever. Good luck.

[@williamkoscielniak7871]

I love how certain people like you are about something so far removed in time, and which goes against the damned near universal historical consensus of Jesus's historicity.

[@MrAuskiwi101]

@@williamkoscielniak7871 Its a lie to claim there is 'damned near universal consensus' that a fictional character in cult mythology named Jesus actually existed. While yours is an obvious fallacy appeal to authority, how many of those so called authorities are theologians. The most corrupt dishonest field if study possible. The fact is no one in the history of humanity has provided any evidence that bible Jesus existed, including those claimed to be authorities. Pretending bible Jesus existed may convince you but not any clear thinking honest individual that understands claims of evidence arent actually evidence. They are just empty claims. Of course you are welcome to be the first person ever to provide evidence bible Jesus existed. I look forward to your evidence. Good luck.

[@giuseppelogiurato5718]

Well, even if Jesus is a fictional character, he is cast in a certain place and time, so even if the question is "if Jesus was a real person, would he have been literate?", it is valid, hypothetical or not. I get what you mean about silly questions ("why didn't Winnie the Pooh ever get diagnosed with diabetes?", "How would Don Quixote react to modern windmills?", "Did Buddha invent the Internet thousands of years ago?", etc etc etc), but the question here is not ridiculous.

[@dtrickle1]

Jesus was a fictional character.

[@Nebulax123]

Being a carpenter could he have learned enough to read and write measurements and basic blueprints and orders?

[@murph8411]

Who is making blueprints in 1st century Israel? Did they even use blueprints over a thousand years later in Europe when they were building the first cathedrals using trial and error?

[@sarahjones79]

He wrote in the sand - He could write. He preached in the synagogues - he could read.

[@sarahjones79]

Defs could read and understand all required for his trade.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

He was a carpenter, not an architect-and he lived two millennia ago. It was unlikely he shipped any goods. He probably dealt with his customers in person.

[@russellmiles2861]

Where anywhere is it said Jesus was a carpenter... That is Hollywood supposition.

[@BaskingInObscurity]

The Industrial Revolution and… the printing press.

[@fattyfat-fat6639]

An aside: While checking out Hezser's book, 👁spied the book "Who Is A Jew." 4me, that raised the question about 70ad and the destruction of all records pertaining to the lineages of post 70ad Hebrews. Without ancient records as proof, can any current Hebrew document that they are indeed, a Hebrew? More, is it not impossible then, concerning the wide belief amongst "believers" that the temple will be rebuilt with an Aaronic/Levite priesthood again serving, and sacrificing, for present Jews to have a temple, replete with red heifers? IF all documentation was lost in the destruction of the temple, can any living Hebrew document their ancestry prior to 70ad? Did that possibility of a reborn priesthood vanish two millennia ago? Or is that presumed loss of records an incorrect assumption? 🤔❔--Tanks

[@allangibson8494]

I doubt anyone alive today can “prove” their lineage from a continuous chain written documents from 70AD. Genetics are probably the only real way to chase descendants.

[@TorianTammas]

This claim of lineage never existed in any written form it has been imagined.

[@allangibson8494]

The “Levi” family linage (the hereditary priestly line) has a very consistent Y chromosome indicating a strong patrilineal descent. All Jews show significant Levantine genetic contributions.

[@nimrodmcdade1457]

You don't write very well.

[@mooshei8165]

Bruce Lee is the God of water.

[@TracyHall_DreamsAndLogic]

Saw a book describing literacy in Roman territories in the first couple centuries CE - claim was that even priests and scribes had to slowly sound out words and sentences, as opposed to modern "sight reading"

[@BobbyHill26]

I don’t remember where I read it or what the specifics were, but I saw one time where someone claimed that the ability to “read in your head” is extremely modern and that most literate people had to read aloud, but that sounds like an extreme statement to me. I’m sure that a significant portion of them did have to sound things out, more than people do now, but the quality of the writings we have from the past makes fluent literacy basically essential especially for writing these texts, but even just to be able to understand them

[@tomrhodes1629]

That's because Jesus was a cave man, like all first century cavemen. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@andrelegeant88]

@@BobbyHill26 this is actually true! It was only among monastic Christian traditions that reading silently developed. As I noted in my comment above, this was an oral society with writing, not a written society. Christianity and its emphasis on texts is what put Europe on the path to being a written society. If you think of how limited texts were, there's no benefit to reading silently. You're monopolizing access by doing so. Most people were simply read to, being much more used to oral communication, and writing was itself done by dictation.

[@biffmarcum5014]

While that is probably true , you would misspell a few by sounding them out. Jerusalem for instance is one that you read by sight and not sound.

[@paulnicholson1906]

@@biffmarcum5014 in reality we read most words by sight as a unit not as individual letters. Chinese seems ponderous until you realize that they read characters like we read words. We just use letters to make strings which become characters.

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

A better question is, were Matthew, Mark, John, James, Jude, and Peter literate? We know that Luke and Paul were literate.

[@Phi1618033]

While I highly doubt that Jesus was a studied scholar, I wouldn't be surprised if he could, at the very least, read and write a little Aramaic and Hebrew, picking it up from the Rabbis in and around Galilee. He might have even been able to speak a litte broken Greek, too. The same goes for his disciples. But to compose something as substantial as Matthew, Luke and Acts would've most likely been way beyond any of them.

[@thorpeaaron1110]

Agreed .

[@georgenelson8917]

Where is your hard evidence? This is a feeling , a belief, a claim . Where is the evidence?

[@Phi1618033]

@@georgenelson8917 It's the exact same evidence that people use to prove that Jesus was totally illiterate.

[@murph8411]

@@Phi1618033He lived in a tiny village how and why would he need or learn Greek? The same for Hebrew. How many educated rabbis do you think lived in his vicinity and would have had time to teach random people to read, write and speak Hebrew?

[@Phi1618033]

​@@murph8411 First of all, I don't accept the gospel account that Jesus was born and raised in the "tiny village" of Nazareth. When the gospels call Jesus a "Nazorene" they're talking about his affiliation to a religious group called the Nazorenes, possibly even the group associated with John the Baptist. It's not the name of the village he's from. The reasons for thinking this are too complex to get into here. Second, it's pretty clear from the gospel accounts that Jesus spent a lot of time living in Capernaum, a moderately sized town on the shore of Galilee, not far from the major town of Tiberius. In fact, I would argue that Jesus was actually born in or around Capernaum. Again, the reasons are complex. Having said that, it's not a great leap in logic to think that an obviously religiously obsessed man like Jesus would make some effort to learn to at least read if he's truly interested in studying Torah and the prophets. That's not to say he became a scholar, by any means. It's just not unrealistic to assume he learned to read and write at a modest level.

[@kellydalstok8900]

Fictional characters can be whatever the author wants them to be, so the question in the video title isn’t relevant.

[@ane-louisestampe7939]

Millions of Muslims can't read, let alone know Arabic, and yet they can recite the Quran beautifully.

[@Peanut888..]

Beautifully No !

[@stigrynning]

What a waste of time.

[@MossyMozart]

@ane-louisestampe7939 - That is true. Recitation has its own feelings of community. And this is just what the followers of the itinerant preacher, Yeshu' did. But were the Disciples and their leader literate? Nope - how could they have been?

[@harharharharharharharharha240]

@@Peanut888..beautifully yes!

[@harharharharharharharharha240]

@@stigrynning oh we will see who is wasting their time

[@BrooklynAvenue]

There's no evidence he existed. Talk about starting a building with the 8th floor...

[@michaeldeaton]

I mean its reasonable enough to assume a Josh the son of Joe existed. Saying much else about him is pretty silly though, we have no reliable information about him past the point that he has a common name and was the son of a guy with another common name.

[@dontuateytu2557]

Luke 4:16So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

[@jameswright...]

So? The bible says a lot of things, mostly made up nonsense.

[@dzikdziki2983]

So.. any other quotes in other scriptures? Something from mark maybe? Luke was written long after his death.

[@davidkeller6156]

There was no synagogue or school in Nazareth. It was a small village with an estimated population of between 400 to 800. Where did he learn to read?

[@TorianTammas]

The synagogue did not exist in Israel as the temple still stood. They were a thing of the diaspora for Jews living far away. Yes Luke was as a fan fiction author creative and unqualified in history and geography.

[@njebei]

At a minimum I'd bet Jesus had limited read skills as he was familiar with scripture and would have seen scrolls. It seems unlikely to me he could write. If he could write, the earliest Christians would have protected his holy writings with their lives when he was gone. The fact we have no writings from Jesus or any claim of him writing is pretty good evidence he was illiterate.

[@josephtaylor4405]

Wasn't the family of Jesus rich (gold, frankincense and myrrh)?

[@juanausensi499]

Only in Matthew.

[@twitherspoon8954]

Dad was God, right? LOL

[@legron121]

The magi were not the "family of Jesus".

[@gordonlynn8300]

proof please . where was their mansion ? and why was their son a carpenter ?

[@mb3503-o4e]

The UK has become extremely dysfunctional

[@jameswright...]

As a older English man I'd say it's just the same as always. Every generation thinks today is worse than yesterday yet we have better health care education and freedoms and equality than ever. Focus on the good not the bad and things get better moving forward.

[@pdworld3421]

NO human being who has ever lived, has ever been scrutinized and criticized, judged or demeaned, mocked or insulted as much as the Lord Jesus.

[@duecetyree]

Or unjustly worshipped

[@JayJay-hk3oq]

U meet all the human beings ?

[@pdworld3421]

@@duecetyree Really? How so?

[@tedgrant2]

I don't know. But I know he never played Beethoven's sonatas.

[@sampsonlittle7368]

Yes, I would say he is literate. The Son of God. He who flung the earth. Who understands every language. Who speaks every language. Who created the language. Who is the Word of God, himself. Who gives wisdom to any one who asks. Dugh!

[@jaflenbond7854]

ATHEISM and RELIGIOUS FANATICISM The Creator KNOWS that all Atheists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions who are openly, proudly, and deliberately mocking, insulting, opposing, and defying his Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings are obviously the ungrateful, merciless, and rebellious persons on earth who are not worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth but worthy and deserving of their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS The Creator KNOWS that all Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world who are filling the world with their lies and false teachings and doctrines about "Armageddon", "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "rapture", and "reincarnation" will never be glorified in their make-believe and fairy tale Heaven nor tortured for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell but just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR and FOLLOWERS of HIS CHRIST The Creator KNOWS that all persons on earth who gladly and willingly honor and obey his Christ as their Heavenly Master and King and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" are clearly his worshippers and followers of his Christ on earth who are not worthy and deserving of sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and deaths but worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death. The Creator KNOWS that all his worshippers who died recently and even thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, his Christ's disciples and followers, and many others will not remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist forever on a safe and peaceful earth as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, compassions, generosities, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth.

[@jeffryphillipsburns]

What do you mean by “flung the earth”? For that matter, what do you mean by “dugh”? What language is that?

[@sampsonlittle7368]

@@jeffryphillipsburns look it up in the Bible. That’s your main answer. Dugh, is to be looked up in the slang dictionary. You now have two books to read.

[@davidkeller6156]

There were many sons of god in the Hebrew Bible. He wasn’t the only one considered to have been made a son of god.

[@sampsonlittle7368]

@@davidkeller6156 He’s the only one who is God.

[@a.t.6322]

Arguments can be made either for or against the literacy of Jesus. At the end of the day, we simply don’t know.

[@michaeldeaton]

Bingo

[@gordonlynn8300]

agreed but the odds are , he couldn't .

[@JacquesMare]

Dr. Ehrman I find it difficult to accept that "tax collectors'" presumably had only been employed by the Roman state for their ability to count.... your words. Counting is very important, but dont you think the ability to note down the names of the people you collected tax from; their physical addresses; and their tribal affiliation would've formed part of the process? How else would the Roman Empire know who paid and who didn't. I want to go further and posit that not only could tax collectors count, read and write, but they could do it in at least the three main languages of the region: Latin,Greek and maybe Aramaic, as the Roman citizens and the occupied all spoke different languages and, giving a receipt in more than one language would've been helpful to both party's as proof of compliance with the emperor's laws and edicts. We know from history that both the Greeks and Romans had inherited the administration of state from their predecessors going back in time from Persia, Babylon, Assyria and starting at the very beginning, the Sumerians who were famous for writing receipts as part of their huge corpus of text. It is therefore not unreasonable to accept an unbroken line of evolved administration that would've gotten better over time and every successive empire. Do you think my argument has merit?

[@dzikdziki2983]

I though the same when he said Mathew couldn't write... It would be weird if a tax collector could count but not take notes who and where paid the tax. I think he is wrong about that one

[@Kyeudo]

_["Counting is very important, but dont you think the ability to note down the names of the people you collected tax from; their physical addresses; and their tribal affiliation would've formed part of the process? How else would the Roman Empire know who paid and who didn't."]_ Tax collection in the ancient world did not resemble tax collection today. The Roman governors would sell the rights to collect taxes for a given area to contractors. This provided the Romans with a steady tax income. The contractors would then try to collect more in taxes from the area than what they had paid for the right to collect those taxes. The tax collectors did not need to record who had paid or who lived where, as they rolled through towns seasonally and hit up everyone they could. _["I want to go further and posit that not only could tax collectors count, read and write, but they could do it in at least the three main languages of the region: Latin,Greek and maybe Aramaic, as the Roman citizens and the occupied all spoke different languages and, giving a receipt in more than one language would've been helpful to both party's as proof of compliance with the emperor's laws and edicts."]_ The tax collectors were local. They spoke the local languages. They didn't give receipts. _["It is therefore not unreasonable to accept an unbroken line of evolved administration that would've gotten better over time and every successive empire."]_ One of the ways that the administration got better was the structuring of tax collecting, namely by offloading it to private tax farmers. Not overtaxing the people was then not the problem of the state, but rather that of the tax farmers. _["Do you think my argument has merit?"]_ Your argument relies on modern assumptions about the nature and process of tax collection that did not hold anciently.

[@davidkeller6156]

@@Kyeudo I’ll what I found. Not only did the Romans collect taxes, but taxes were also collected for Herod and the Temple. Maybe Matthew collected for one of them and not the Romans.

[@Kyeudo]

@@davidkeller6156 No, because the term used for Mathew is publican. He was part of the Roman system of tax farming. Even if he was a temple tax collector, he still wouldn't have carried out that taxation like we do in the modern day, with lots of record keeping to make sure everyone is taxed but only taxed once.

[@stanleywilliams4429]

It was an elite group who got to read and write.

[@aleccrippa8868]

Recent graffiti's from Pompeii seem to indicate a much more widespread literacy than it was thought up to now..

[@mrsatire9475]

I hope it appears more coherent than today's graffiti

[@brendanryan6740]

well he wasn't musical or mathematical

[@tomrhodes1629]

And you know this because.....???? Jesus was a cave man. Just ask Popular Mechanics. They know, just like Bart Ehrman knows things that he doesn't know. Intelligence without wisdom is like a boat without water. It won't take you anywhere worth going. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.

[@GeeThevenin]

This is the same content as you posted last week. Last week was supposed to be about fear of hell and the podcast stayed with the right content but somehow your KZbin video got messed up.

[@bungalallyO]

Seeing he read the scripture at synog.

[@davidkeller6156]

But did he?

[@sebolddaniel]

I have a Masters in English Literature and I can't read anything. I went through six years of Catholic school sexual guilt, so the only books I can read are Nabokov's sex novels and the passage in Mark where Jesus hangs out with a naked boy in the Garden of Gesthemane and the passages in Ephesians where pretty boy Paul hangs out in the bathhouses with the Roman boys in their pleated micro skirt uniforms (You guys have never read the real Paul. You just see what want and ignore the nudity right in front of your eyes). Christopher Street in New York in the land of the free is a joke. Come to Bangkok, my good Christian friends and hang out at Katouie Guesthouse on Khaosan Road. Bring your Roman soldier boy uniforms. (Too many Cliff Notes English Literature Ph Ds out there.) Just ask Bart.

[@kathrynsamuelson1983]

What about measuring and math? Wouldn't people have had some basic knowledgy???

[@jasonhallock3773]

Jesus while young amazed the rabbis of his knowledge. He probably read quite well or had a great memory

[@davidneve1541]

Weren’t the Hebrew scriptures translated into Koine Greek during the Hellenistic period from which we get the Septuagint bible because most Jews of the era had forgotten more or less their Hebrew language and spoke mostly Greek as they had been under Greek rule for centuries. So translating the Tora and other old Hebrew scriptures into Greek doesn’t make any sense at all if 97% of the Jews couldn’t read anyway. Surely, going by Bart`s argument that if only say 3% of the people could read and those were mostly high-ranking officials and the religious members of the community, why translate the bible because surely the religious community could probably still read Hebrew and the rest couldn't read?

[@StarSong936]

I like Bart. Just to reply to the video title, If you are going by the bible, and the story about the woman caught in adultery wasn't made up out of whole cloth, then Jesus did know how to read and wright. That being said, why no preserved texts that he wrote? Why is it always copies of copies of copies about what he said? If he was God in the flesh, it would seem to me to make sense that something would have been written down for future generations.

[@Enzo012]

It's like asking if King Arthur was literate?

[@RichardLewisCaldwell]

23:16 "just making stuff up" This isn't about their childhoods, but the disciples' relationship with Jesus. Sure, they were likely illiterate when they met Jesus, but I don't buy Jesus choosing to stay illiterate his whole life. He wowed the Jerusalem Bigwigs at age 12; if he wanted to learn Jesus had access. Can you imagine Jesus saying, "Naw"? Illiterate for life Jesus" clashes with his character. But the disciples? Which ones would want to read? Who would put in the effort to write, if any? Think of the group dynamics! Learning to read would be hard but give status, which one was supposed to reject. Ouch! Thumbs up

[@allanwilliams2079]

@Bart D Ehrman An example of Jesus having read. An example of Jesus having written. He taught with more authority than the scribes. Yet, you don't see him as being literate. ● Did this event happened to illiterate people?? Luke 5:17,21,26 And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them. [21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? [26] And they were all amazed, and they glorified God, and were filled with fear, saying, We have seen strange things to day. ● In the Jewish society, Who were the Pharisees?? Who were the doctors of the law?? Who were the scribes?? Who were the Levite?? What was the purpose of each group?? Were these groups of people considered illiterate in Jewish society?? Is it uncommon, in Jewish society, for the writing/recording of information, to be done by one of the group, in agreement with all of the group?? 2 Kings 18:37 Then came Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and Joah the son of Asaph the recorder, to Hezekiah with their clothes rent, and told him the words of Rab-shakeh. [Who is the author of the words, of Rab-shakeh, which were told, to Hezekiah??] 2 Kings 18:26 Then said Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and Shebna, and Joah, unto Rab-shakeh, Speak, I pray thee, to thy servants in the Syrian language; for we understand it: and talk not with us in the Jews' language in the ears of the people that are on the wall. ● How did the scribes and recorders in Judea learn foreign languages?? ● The Torah was translated into Greek, by Hebrew speaking priests, centuries before Jesus walked in Judea: how did they learn the language?? ● The words have been spoken by the disciples: the words were written by disciples: all of the disciples were not from the peasant class as you are striving to make them out to be. Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) Acts 1:21-22 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, [22] Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. ● Here it is recorded that there were other disciples who were with them from the time of the baptism of John. [They are not all named but they are disciples none the less.] ● They had all things in common: they remained as a group: they spoke as one. [John 21:28 "And we know": 1John 5:20 "And we know":] Can you speak with the same authority?? ● Stop looking for Christianity to be carried by a/that disciple. (You put your own name to something when it is yours or when you seek your own glory.) This is what Jesus said: John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

[@daviddieter8294]

Wouldn't god be able to read and write? I'm super confused. Or is a lot all made up by humans? Hmmm, which is more plausible?

[@TheLittleThorn]

Mr 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, ****Beware of the scribes****, which love to go in long clothing, and [love] salutations in the marketplaces,

[@edward1412]

In the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, the young boy Jesus explained the Greek alphabets to His teacher. Lol