Was there really a difference between the Zero and Corsair in Battlefield 1943?

[@Eonymia]

Reminds me of the SMGs in Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, where they had to change the sounds of the guns because the players in testing thought the Thompson was more powerful than the MP-40 despite them having the exact same stats and complained. Turns out the Thompson just sounded more powerful.

[@LeotseilGaming]

Hehe, I didn't know that one. Just goes to show the power of good audio. Audio is another aspect that BF1943 did extremely well. Not only the sound effects themselves (which were very good), but also the sound engine. The way it handled dynamics just made the guns and explosions feel so powerful.

[@privateassman8839]

And by extension, players were more confident with the Thompson, making its kill statistics better

[@TheRealToothpasteMan]

Everyone on an even playing field, maps built to perfection, the sounds, the fighting, the vehicle control, the interesting yet simple original ideas…this game was amazing. Wish they’d remaster it and release it again. So perfect and so many night spent with friends at a sleepover playing this game taking turns after 3 deaths each it was so peak.

[@LeotseilGaming]

A remaster would be sweet!

[@567sinclair]

truly a monument to how solid design and care is all gamers want. a game litteraly a xbox arcade testbed for the at the time brand new frostbite engine and its destruction. truly remarkable

[@LeotseilGaming]

Yeah, this game was such a gem!

[@jack_a_boi]

the Q33 hatemail mid-match, ahhhh the nostalgia 😂 In all seriousness though this is a great video, nice work man! :)

[@sappyjohnson]

That dude was so fast at sending messages. His best skill.

[@LeotseilGaming]

Haha, I was curious if anyone would notice that one.

[@the_zens]

As someone who has never played this game, I didn't expect to finish the video to the end... But, I did! This was a very enjoyable and well put together video! Although the other content on this channel doesn't interest me as much, I'd be glad to see more of these kinds of videos. Thank you!

[@LeotseilGaming]

Thanks, man, appreciate it! It's nice to hear that the video can be interesting for someone who didn't play the game, because when I was making the video I knew that the topic most likely would be very niche: Very interesting for players who played the game a lot, but perhaps not so much for others. I want to make more videos like this from time to time, although most of my content will admittedly be similar to what you already see on the channel. I have, however, put playlists on the front of my channel to make it easier to find these kind of "special" videos among the rest of my content when I do make them.

[@the_zens]

@@LeotseilGaming Even though I haven't played BF1943, I do enjoy the BF games and have a passing interest in planes (I really like the Zero), so those might be the reasons why I got recommended something as niche as this. Anyway, I will be looking out for videos of interest to me on this channel and I can only hope you're having a good time making these videos, no matter if they're not for everyone. Also going through that playlist, I can't believe you've both planned ahead, recorded and intend to make 1000 episodes of BF1943! That is some insane dedication. I hope there is a way you (and everyone else) can get to enjoy the game online again, either through emulation or some other way.

[@LeotseilGaming]

​@the_zens It was a fun project to try to reach 1000 episodes before the servers shut down. Every episode is actually already made, uploaded and has a schedule set for when it will automatically go live. So I could technically just lean back and let the channel run itself until the last episode goes live on November 23rd, 2027, hehe.

[@the_zens]

@@LeotseilGaming That's even more insane! I wonder how long it took for KZbin to process them. I wish you all the best!

[@BetterOnichThanSorry]

Glad this popped into my recommendations. I'm surprised to learn from those stats that I only played 50 matches. I had a bunch of hours; may have been that I left some before completion? I dunno.

[@LeotseilGaming]

Yeah, that is a bit strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the match would get added to stats at the end of the match, so that could be a possible explanation.

[@battlefieldplays2754]

Funnily enough the corsair had one advantage over the zero, but it was extremely hard to master it. The corsair had better stability when executing a turn while dipping the wing into the water. I'm not sure if you know of this trick as only a few players knew of it but you could turn so much faster if you dipped your wing into the water. As shown here at 4:20: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXKQdJJ-nZ1mpqM While both planes could turn at the same speed if you mastered this skill, I found that the corsair was far easier to control when doing the wing dip turn.

[@LeotseilGaming]

I learned about it eventually, but I never got any good at it. That is very interesting that the Corsair was easier to control with that trick. Thanks for the link!

[@deltahalo241]

Have to wonder just how many dogfights were lost because of that gun placement bug. Perhaps that's why no-one played the Aerial Assault mode

[@LeotseilGaming]

Although I don't have data to back this up, I have a feeling most players would play in first person when they enter into a dogfight (although I do know of a few that would play in third), which would have made them equal as far as the guns are concerned (they would still be more likely to loose because of the differences in maneuverability, though). It would have been very interesting to find a way to do a survey of the player base to ask how many would play in third and first person while in dogfights and compare the stats of players that preferred third and first person.

[@r4microds]

This game was a gem and this video documentary brought back so many memories playing 1943. Thank you.

[@LeotseilGaming]

You're quite welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@TeroPajunen]

This was your BEST clip ever! Now I can finally die in piece, as my insight has been proven for good.

[@sappyjohnson]

RIP

[@LeotseilGaming]

Hehe, thanks!

[@TheD3rp2]

As somebody who didn't get a chance to play BF1943 (never had a PS3 or 360), this video was very interesting. The guns in 3rd vs.1st person seem like a simple oversight (I know of something similar in BF1, where the origin point of the Flanker Tank's shells will change depending on what perspective the driver is using). The maneuverability, on the other hand, makes me wonder if the planes do have the same stats in the code, but the way those stats interact with the physics engine gives an advantage to the Zero somehow.

[@LeotseilGaming]

That is a very intriguing hypothesis. While I find it odd that the different plane models would interact that differently with the physics engine with the same values in the code, it would explain why the devs would think they are equal if they didn't anticipate how the different planes would interact differently with the physics engine. Now I'm even more curious to the reason why the planes handled differently, hehe.

[@TheD3rp2]

@@LeotseilGaming My theory is actually along the lines of it having something to do with the position of the pilot, and thus what's considered the "center" of the plane. The Corsair's cockpit is a bit further back on the airframe than the Zero's, so maybe that's an angle worth investigating. Also, I forgot to ask in my initial post, but was there any significant difference between the stats of PS3 and X360 pilots?

[@LeotseilGaming]

@@TheD3rp2 Ah, that is an interesting angle that would have been worth investigating. I'm not quite sure how one would go about testing that, though, since we only have the tutorial to play in. This is a good example of where being able to host a private match would have been useful since we could have had players spectating the planes from different angles while they did maneuvers. I haven't checked the differences between PS3 and X360 pilots, but that is worth checking into. I will probably do follow-up videos at some points where I look at more stats from the database (and not only for the planes). One have to be a bit careful when interpreting the results from looking at PS3 and X360 players, though. If one platform had the more skilled players, one would think that they would have higher stats, for instance, higher kills per minute. However, every player on that platform would also have more skilled opponents, which could balance the stats so that they would appear similar to the other platform.

[@TheD3rp2]

@@LeotseilGaming I'm more interested in the differences between the two versions of the game, such as (to use a purely hypothetical example) the Zero's maneuverability advantage being less pronounced on the PS3. From a look at the combined stats I don't that's the case, but it's always worth checking out.

[@LeotseilGaming]

@TheD3rp2 Now that would have been interesting to check out. The obvious approach would be to just do the same tests in the tutorial on Xbox and PS3, but unfortunately the tutorial is only available to Xbox players for some strange reasons. On PS3 you needed access to the servers to go into the tutorials, which means they can't get in. Maybe there could be a way to investigate some of the differences based on the available stats, but I would have to think a bit on how to best approach such an analysis. Edit: Thinking about it, I think we should except to see a different trend line on PS3 and Xbox if there were differences between the planes on PS3 and Xbox even if there were differences between the skills between the platforms. I think I'll have to make a video about this at some point.

[@rau661]

I love this type of videos, good job man.

[@CraigSteelyard]

Great video for my birthday thanks Leo! 👏😁

[@RobthaDog]

HBD Craig 🎉

[@LeotseilGaming]

Glad you liked it, and happy birthday!

[@CraigSteelyard]

​@@RobthaDogThanks Rob! 😊

[@laurwho592]

There is no doubt that the Zero performed way better than the Corsair. For me the M1 Garand also performed better than the Type 4 when aiming down the sights. The iron sights were just better on the M1, so I would always try to pick up the M1 when playing as the japanese. Great video.

[@CraigSteelyard]

The Corsair would always fire rubber bullets compared to the Zero haha in most head to head battles

[@LeotseilGaming]

Thanks! It would be interesting to check the database if players performed differently with the M1 Garand and Type 4.

[@zimxylem1843]

This is honestly a great video I really really enjoyed watching it.

[@LeotseilGaming]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

[@SixfiveBowman]

I played this when it was new but quickly moved on with BFBC2 when it came out. I’m with you that it’s interesting they’re not the same, great work, great video, great charts🤙🏻

[@LeotseilGaming]

Thanks! I used to play both BF1943 and BFBC2 on PS3 back in the day. I used to switch between the two, but BF1943 was always the game I gravitated towards the most. However, I have been wondering of getting into PC gaming to try out Project Rome. Is sucks that we didn't get a PC release of BF1943 because it would have been so sweet to have something like Project Rome for BF1943.

[@Gusararr]

I quite enjoyed your scientific approach to such a trivial question. I wish I had the same enthusiasm when it came to writing my master’s thesis,

[@LeotseilGaming]

Glad you enjoyed it! Writing a master's thesis is no small feat. What's the topic of your thesis?

[@Gusararr]

@@LeotseilGaming Well, it’s about correlation of self-regulation activities with subjective sense of vitality, but I’ll also include activities like gaming. Seeing your correlation charts reminded me of my work ahead. I gotta admit that I’m not the biggest fun of statistics, but you reminded me that it can be fun. 😊

[@LeotseilGaming]

@Gusararr Oh, interesting topic! I must admit I have little to no knowledge about the concept of vitality, but I have done a bit of reading into Self-Determination Theory (SDT) and I notice that Ryan and Deci (founders of the SDT theory) have a model of vitality based on SDT that factors in how self-regulation affects vitality, where they argue that some forms of regulation (controlled) can deplete vitality while others (autonomous) will not. Are you by any chance investigating this model in your research or is it not relevant for your research question? Statistics can be very fun, but the careful when interpreting the results of a correlation analysis. There are a lot of pitfalls to fall into.

[@scottbentley1840]

Very good 👏 I can see the new series on the horizon… “Leo Investigates”

[@LeotseilGaming]

Hehe, I actually have ideas for other investigation videos.

[@ksamsel5809]

I so sorely miss this game. It was to me, the best game ever.

[@LeotseilGaming]

Yeah, me too. It was such a great and unique game.

[@Denkmaldrubernacht]

More videos like this!! Id love to see differences in other games like battlefield 4

[@LeotseilGaming]

I have ideas for other analytical videos, but then it will probably just be more from BF1943 since that is the game I played and know.

[@sappyjohnson]

Excellent video and thank you for sharing the link to the database. I'm wondering if you saw a big difference in time spent in the zero vs corsair among the more skilled pilots?

[@LeotseilGaming]

Thanks! I don't have the exact numbers right now, but I think players spent considerably more time in the Zero. I should check that out.

[@brandonglosson1628]

The Zero's biggest advantage against the Corsair was it's ability to turn faster than the Corsair. If both players were turning the same direction, the Zero would eventuality catch up with and get behind the Corsair. This is not up for debate and is 100% accurate. I also felt the Zero was easier to aim, although I suspect the Corsair had a sweet spot where its guns would be more effective than the Zero.

[@LeotseilGaming]

Before making this video, I was so sure that it was just an imagined difference because of the different camera positions, like the devs said, but man was I in for a surprise when I started doing systematic testing.

[@brandonglosson1628]

@LeotseilGaming They should have made the Corsair have noticeably higher top speed to better balance the difference.

[@LeotseilGaming]

@brandonglosson1628 Personally, I would have preferred if they just made them totally equal. I have a feeling they were supposed to be equal (why else would the dev say they are equal?), but that something happened during development, a mistake that was made or something, which resulted in them not being equal.

[@Namek_pd]

What a game and what a video, congratulations 🎉 This video made me so happy to see this awesome game again. I played a lot matches, with my brother, and it was a blast, I even played the planes mode. For the video, it was very enjoyable to watch. For me, I always thought that the zero was nimbler and the crossair had a bit more armor, it seems I was right one of those things xD Once again, congratulations for this awesome video. You have a new subscriber 😊

[@LeotseilGaming]

Thanks, appreciate it!

[@ULVlogsandRetro]

Hope this game getting revive own host soon without EA or DICE. 1943 is arcade game on xbox

[@LeotseilGaming]

It would be very nice to see the game being revived in some way.

[@kediester5393]

got goosebumps at the flyng tiger.....

[@kediester5393]

2.5k views is sooo low for this hi quality video

[@Stealth86651]

The differences felt might be like you get in Warthunder, where the "popular" or recognizable tanks have lower stats because newer players gravitate to them initially before learning better skills. That might be why Americans felt underpowered, because generally higher skilled players might choose Japanese more often.

[@LeotseilGaming]

There were definitely some highly skilled players that would try to go for the Japanese planes, even when they playing on the American side. But then you get into a chicken-or-the-egg situation. Did a lot of players feel the Corsair was underpowered just because there were so many skilled players taking the Zero, or did skilled players try to take the Zero because it was overpowered? In this case, I think it was the case of the Zero being superior to the Corsair, which resulted in some skilled players trying to get a hold of a Zero no matter what faction they were on for a specific match.

[@stormtroopercommander7947]

I remember playing this beautiful game and I can say the only advantage the zero has is it's gun placements compared to the f4u corsair because the zero has 1 on each wing and 2 on the nose while the corsair had 2 on each wing and none on the nose, thus you can aim easier on the A6M2 compared to the F4U Corsair

[@LeotseilGaming]

That was exactly what I thought when I started doing research for this video. But I was in for a big surprise when I started doing tests because while the Corsair had all four guns at the wings, the devs would move the hitboxes of two of the bullets closer to the center of the plane so that the guns would behave exactly like the Zero...however, they forgot to move the hitboxes when in third person for some strange reason. I show this in the video starting from 10:38. If you go earlier in the video, I do comparisons of the roll, pitch and yaw for the two planes. I was so sure before going in that these would be equal for the two planes, but again I was in for a big surprise.

[@stormtroopercommander7947]

I was surprised as well! I wrote this while watching for the first time haha! Thank you so much for making this video! I very much enjoy taking a nostalgic watch back to my childhood🎉​@LeotseilGaming

[@LeotseilGaming]

@@stormtroopercommander7947 You're quite welcome! Good to hear you enjoyed the video! I would do that first loop-test over and over again because I was so sure that I had to be doing something wrong. And when I discovered the guns for the Corsair behaving differently in third person, I couldn't believe my eyes! I have a feeling that the planes were supposed to be equal, but that something happened during development, a mistake or something, that resulted in them not being equal.

[@SlayerEddyTV]

That was a good set of tests which has finally proven what I have felt all along that the Zero's were the better planes.

[@SlayerEddyTV]

I even see my tag in the gameplay shown, not being shot down by you though :p

[@LeotseilGaming]

@@SlayerEddyTV Hehe, well spotted! It was always nice to have you on the same team, keeping the sky clean.

[@wanter1985]

My favourite game 💔💔🙏

[@LeotseilGaming]

It was such a gem of a game with no other game quite like it.

[@hungryhedgehog4201]

the way the planes behave in this game looks so weird ngl

[@LeotseilGaming]

That is interesting, what do you find weird about how they behave? I have no doubt that their behavior looks bizarre to someone more knowledgeable of how a real plane should behave, as the game was more of a simplistic arcade game, but as a person not experienced in the matter it would be interesting to hear what parts of their behavior looks weird.

[@wiseguy3696]

Best $5 I've ever spent

[@LeotseilGaming]

Yeah, the value for money this game provided was crazy.

[@sappyjohnson]

I just watched this again. I'm wondering if you know who are the 2 players that had ~2.5 kills/minute in the Zero?

[@LeotseilGaming]

I'm assuming you're referring to the plot with the most experienced players? I just checked and that would be "Bramsters" and "bennibombom".

[@sappyjohnson]

@LeotseilGaming Yes, that's correct. Well I'm not surprised by those 2 being there! Thanks

[@LeotseilGaming]

@sappyjohnson I also checked your last request. For players that spent 100+ hours in both planes, the average time was 335 hours in the Zero and 205 in the Corsair. Edit: As for the median times, those were 230 hours for the Zero and 153 hours for the Corsair.

[@sappyjohnson]

@LeotseilGaming Thanks again. I guess that's about what I expected. Strongly favoring the zero, but not a ridiculously huge difference.

[@finity0884]

RIP to the best game and I think the zero is better

[@LeotseilGaming]

Yup, all evidence points to the Zero being better.

[@finity0884]

@@LeotseilGamingId also prefer it because the sound of it when you’re flying it feels smooth whereas the american one its more noisy

[@RobthaDog]

Deaths : 37,111 Kills : 188,811 Wins : 11,308 Losses : 1,385 Meh 😂 you should check out a statistic called ELO 👀🙂

[@sappyjohnson]

That's an amazing W/L ratio.

[@RobthaDog]

@ i hand on heart had a preference for the zero, the Corsair flew like a brick 😂

[@CraigSteelyard]

​@@RobthaDogthe American M1 rifle and Sherman are slightly better than the Japanese counterparts though in my opinion haha. Japanese had the better sniper kit

[@LeotseilGaming]

That is one nice KD ratio, Rob!

[@LeotseilGaming]

@@CraigSteelyard It would be interesting to check the database to see if players performed differently with the tanks and rifles.