Watcher's Outrageous Goodbye | Body Language Analysis

[@ObserveYouTube]

Are you going to pay for the new Watcher streaming platform?

[@politegordonramsay6811]

Absolutely and unequivocally NO.

[@brittbereading3450]

As someone who was an avid Watcher.... watcher? I am not paying 6bucks a month while being a broke college student who has to decide which day of the week I can afford to have more than 1.5 meal a day.

[@nessa_vg]

Nope, I have a new $20 a month medicine bill, no money for the watcher subscription, and honestly wouldn't anyway if I had the money cause that price for the content of one yt channel is asinine.

[@vanessalosangeles]

No, i think they became what they hated from being on Buzzfeed its sad to see because i loved the ghost hunting and Ryan and Shane content….

[@TheMissingDislikeButton]

Hell nah

[@Ai愛ofSauron]

Wild idea: Steven Lim stops eating incredibly expensive food and lives off $6 per month for food videos.

[@duskripper6650]

That would be glorious

[@meganashlea]

Now that’s a show people would pay for 😂

[@yourbootyholeisyourbeautyhole]

if i can do it so can he 🤣

[@brinnforthewinn]

Now THAT is something worth paying for!

[@carrieharlow435]

Ryan Trahan does videos like this, except Ryan is actually likable.

[@AnAbundanceOfSophie]

Shane wants to make content he loves, Ryan wants external validation that what he makes is good enough and Steven wants money

[@honeysluiced]

such an accurate analysis

[@acleanpairofsocks]

I think you’re right

[@GW42329]

You got it.

[@carolynmayhew4878]

Nailed it

[@sootekken]

Yep I get this exact dynamic from them, I kind of always have seen it. Shane could care less as long as he’s enjoying himself, Ryan has always seemed to want to want things to be better or perfect (wherein lies the problem, perfect does not mean good) and Steven is the Silicon Valley tech bro who uses money to make up for his lack of social charisma 🤕

[@fearfulfablesandfairytales255]

Why has no channel picked up on the fact that 6 days ago Watcher announced that they've hired 2 more people who, along with Lim, are starting up a show like worth it, which is where they test out ridiculously expensive things to see if they are "worth it" and then a few days later are complaining they need more money and are not mentioning that...just their most popular series? Incredibly manipulative and gross imo.

[@bruixeria]

None of the channels talking about them may have noticed this but the angry fans in the comments sure did.

[@rhiannonsmith3629]

Many have mentioned that it seems like no one has the heart to tell Steven he can't do that show because it just sucks to watch when none of the viewers can afford that stuff. They should flip it and do expensive restaurant meals with low cost ingredients: is it worth it?

[@Fawnphase]

EXACTLY they did this before- made up extra dramatics to quit Buzzfeed Unsolved

[@emmawilson6417]

i just don't understand why they don't realize that people are there for shane and ryan... i am sure there is bitterness on steven's part that his stuff doesn't compete with theirs.

[@carrieharlow435]

I also noticed Ryan talked about doing ghost files internationally a while back, does that mean he was just assuming this would’ve gone well??

[@ajet5m640]

"No matter how much you've supported Watcher over the years, you were never anything but a stepping stone to them" hit me HARD

[@abigailvanvleet]

💔 😞

[@ooshiikurai]

Yeah that’s exactly how it felt.

[@girlypopgay]

It was literally my exact thoughts put into a succinct sentence. All the more meaningful bc he actually watched watcher, and could fully articulate these feelings for us.

[@EMurph42]

Yes! It was a painful truth.

[@steingruber2417]

Complaining that you can´t make "tv quality" entertainment on youtube while GMM and rhett and link are thriving is nuts to me.

[@STSGuitar16]

They think they’re too good for KZbin at this point. Truth is they just have been hemorrhaging money under a “CEO” who clearly doesn’t know what he’s doing.

[@purplepebble3479]

This! ☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻 their crew is huge bc they can afford it bc those men know how to make sensible business decisions

[@WeirdSkellyK1]

This is exactly what I keep saying. This is what you strive for

[@bramblechaser162]

Exactly! You know how much extra content they have for people who want to pay for it…

[@andyharrisonharper]

This is SUCH a freaking good point, i didnt even fathom that

[@amykay2781]

Its funny they talk about how many people they employ but they couldnt hire someone to run numbers on how bad of a decision this would be or a pr crisis manager.

[@citylemon7832]

💯

[@Mikeoneal07]

That's their 26th hire

[@CapucineNighly]

And Charlie can still afford the same amt of employees and then some, while having a full esport team that he literally imported from Australia to come to NA. And has not even put his content behind a paywall. Someone ain't mathing their funds right and their PR is trash.

[@pandamx8959]

Maybe there’s some embezzlement going on lol

[@CapucineNighly]

@@pandamx8959 Wew... That's bad yo

[@mshaddds8013]

I was happy with a black screen with blue/yellow dialogue and them sitting behind a desk in a dimly lit office 🫤 Their banter and chemistry was why I watched, I never cared about production level.

[@infinitymocha]

OML please this. Even when they switched to watcher and I loved the updated graphics, I still missed the blue and yellow dialogue. I love Ryan and Shane man. I want them. Not their fancy stuff. I love them and their banter together. Even when it got them in trouble at times together like the boy in the box backlash lol or whatnot. It felt genuinely them.

[@edgeofsevnteen]

It was all about the (wheeze) and the creepy mannequin in the background. It felt so disingenuous and detached once they made the move to watcher because then it turned needlessly showy and unrelatable, which took away from the chemistry between Ryan and Shane that made Buzzfeed unsolved so successful in the first place. When I’ve never seen anyone complain once, it was literally never about the expensive sets or technological advancements they kept investing in. We never asked for any of this!

[@SoraBlu3]

Garrett Watts ghost hunts with just himself, Andrew, and maybe one or two more people, and he gets as much or more views as Watcher.

[@dannysvanity]

i was literally saying this to my friend, honestly im glad because garrett deserves it. he has what watcher did once which is genuineness

[@marahollow1214]

EXACTLY

[@marahollow1214]

Garrett watts has the most sort of genuine off the cuff videos and he doesn’t gatekeep

[@jennieteen]

I've never watched Garretts's content (mostly, I just knew him vaguely from when he dated Shane Dawson) but after this shit show I'm definitely going to check out his ghost hunting videos.

[@dannysvanity]

@@jennieteen definitely watch! he didn’t date shane but they are very similar personality wise lol! the best way i can describe him is the personality of shane with the original style/content (cant find the right word lol) of watcher

[@jennifer2185]

CEO is not good at running a business. They hired too many people, bought all the fancy tech and scaled up their production quality. Now they can't afford it. No one asked for "tv quality content". They made their wealth off online content and now their egos are too big for the platform that built them.

[@CapucineNighly]

They're tryin to be the next BuzzFeed.. Well... At least BuzzFeed wasn't behind a paywall.

[@vinnyl264]

Steven the CEO has no experience in business, he “learned” it all in books when they started up the business…

[@Its_like_the_T-Rex]

I would bet money that Steven had an assistant too.

[@CapucineNighly]

@@Its_like_the_T-Rex Maybe 2

[@IronWangCreates]

This is like your landlord sticking a smart fridge and a home cinema into your apartment and then telling you that the rent has to go up to pay for it. Like…I don’t want these? I was good before? I’ll take it for free but if it’s pay more or have a normal fridge…I’ll take the normal fridge?

[@Its_like_the_T-Rex]

When they introduced new members and a travel ultra rich food show, I thought to myself, Ill never watch that show. I watch for Ryan and Shane's back and forth banter. I literally couldn't care about Steven's foodie stuff.

[@marahollow1214]

Literally same. I’ve always found Steven more unlovable and found his content not as interesting. I’ve never watcjed a full episode it’s not stimulating - I’m here for the ghoul boys only

[@Mistahhuntah]

Same.

[@Angela-ne9cy]

SAME!!! Somewhere along the way, Steven has made this all about him. He seems the most enthusiastic about this departure from KZbin, too. I'm not here for it. Nope. Bye, boys.

[@bloodmajesty414]

Worth It was fun to watch on Buzzfeed's money. But ain't fun anymore when we gotta fund it 😓😓

[@l.s1103]

Yeah completely agree, not interesting enough past one video but they seem to think it's a good idea to have as some sort of series, I don't find watching someone try expensive food interesting at all, and Steven seems more interested in expensive food than anything else on the channel

[@hanananah]

My first impression of the video was this. Steven is trying to convince us Ryan is trying to convince himself Shane is there

[@amandapruys6595]

Shane is there and isn't sure he wants to be 😅

[@JoshuaBarberShoppe]

So many people trying to say that Shane was 1000% into the announcement and 1000% wanted it. And I'm like... are y'all actually watching him body language and what he's saying? lol.

[@DrJeykl]

@@JoshuaBarberShoppe Shane’s body language is disconnected and his micro-expressions are showing zero happiness. It is safe to say he is not behind this.he actually shows more happiness in the retraction video.

[@JoshuaBarberShoppe]

@@DrJeykl Agreed. His body language and tone in the apology has big “I told them this would happen but no one listened to me” energy

[@DrJeykl]

@@JoshuaBarberShoppe that is exactly my interpretation as well. Huge “I told you so” energy.

[@elizahepner-ray]

Surprisingly, I very much enjoyed Worth It when it was on Buzzfeed's dime, but I've found Steven very unlikable. Adam and Andrew made that show worth watching at all. I have always loved Shane and Ryan and Shane's unfortunate stamp of approval on this is so sad and disappointing. Overall, no, I will not be paying to watch Steven eat the poor.

[@chonq]

Andrew is just as unlikeable.

[@elsierocketship6361]

Shane "eat the rich" Steven "eat the poor, got it."

[@FukaiKokoro]

It was fun because BuzzFeed is a big company. And could afford It. Adam and Andrew definitely were the stars of the show.

[@OrangeCat1992]

I very much agree.

[@HeVn7LaO]

I agree…I almost always watch it for Andrew, Adam and sometimes when Rie when she is included in the video…I dunno, I never really like fangirl over Steven but I don’t necessarily hate him either…I just think this is a bad business move on behalf of them and not at all considerate of the fans that build them up…I don’t like the hate over Steven because let’s be real, this streaming service idea won’t be a reality if it weren’t for Shane and Ryan too…I’m not sure what their motivations were, how they come up with this stupid idea (we can only speculate at the end of the day)….but it’s just that, I don’t think I’ll be watching their videos on the streaming service because I don’t think it is worth it.

[@lizurang8145]

I think you nailed it! Most of us saw that Shane seemed opposed to it, Ryan seemed conflicted, and Steven just saw dollar signs especially since he promoted his new show in this video.

[@Yalesville]

Omg Steven was ready to off him when he said you can share passwords 😂

[@HaNaHmOnTaNa4eva]

I agree. It doesn't seem like it's in Shane and Ryan's nature.

[@kaila288]

For sure, since if I am correct the two most popular shows are Puppet History and Ghost Files, that’s what most people came and stayed for…. At least in my end. Puppet History turned my nephew on to history, he now wants to study it in college. He’s about to be a broke college student, who wants to make sure he has money for food and books, not this.

[@jvaillancourt21]

25 staff members is INSANE. When they said that my jaw dropped. You could definitely manage with way less staff. The heck do you need 25 people for?! They ahould have figured out their budget before doing all this nonsense

[@user-nl2wl8ix6b]

i work at an ira firm (small business), we have less than 15 people in our offices and we literally manage people’s IRAs

[@aimlessalix8066]

Sh*t the company I work for that spans 3 states and the chicken farm in texas I work on together have less people than that😂 (10 & 6)

[@dannysvanity]

try guys only has like 10 people on their team and their projects are much bigger, i immediately was like “theres your problem!”

[@ellerose1268]

I wonder if they have an issue with hiring family. I know at least 2 are Ryan's relatives.

[@aimlessalix8066]

@ellerose1268 Yeah, like they grew too big too fast and refuse to let anyone go? Never work with family

[@marie-evebeaupre2774]

With this whole discussion, I keep thinking about Mythical. They created their own brand, they're making a high-production, high-quality morning show for every single day of the work week, they have a huge community, making live shows, books, podcasts, music, quality merch, anything they really want to persue they do it and that's all from KZbin being their main platform. Yes some content is behind a paywall, but that's additional, the main show (AND the after show) is still free and available to everybody and they're clearly making BANK. They also have way more staff then Watcher that they have to pay. They also regularly donate and they have a great contact with their audience. It's just wild to me seeing that and then hearing Watcher complain about KZbin not allowing them to do more...

[@docsaico]

Okay, can I also say how fucked up it is that, on their Watcher podcast, Ryan hyped up ~next~ season of Ghost Files as having the most evidence they’ve ever gotten, to the point that even Shane was questioning things, and then do this?

[@queenshalon]

OMG, I was so mad about this

[@SjofnBM1989]

The fact that it was probably a bold faced f**ing lie just to manipulate people into paying for a subscription when they dropped the website

[@juliepryslak2562]

Yep

[@carrieharlow435]

And he flexed they would be doing it internationally. Oh wait! He forgot to tell us we have to pay for it.

[@Katinahat293]

YES this is exactly what I was thinking. I watched the last episode and got excited for the next release then BOOM they do this. Clearly sales were the point all along smh

[@leinewness8241]

“Sometimes the enemy of good is perfection.” I think this is true especially in Ryan’s case, all about production and the output. Seems to me they feel unaccomplished if they don’t reach to the impossible standard of TV and shot themselves in the foot.

[@Chronorust]

This quote sums this up pretty well

[@Cove_Blue]

And nobody wants TV anymore! We're here because we want genuine!

[@anywhere_but_here]

im honestly baffled at this idea that TV is the pinnacle of production and quality video. i regularly watch series on KZbin that rival or exceed TV quality- for _free_ , and made by like one or two people at times. TV is dying/dead for a reason.

[@edgeofsevnteen]

@@anywhere_but_hereikr I can’t even tell you the last time I watched cable tv. It’s been years!

[@talosheeg]

As someone from their unsolved days, im so sad about this. It feels so greedy.

[@lovefool.99]

I miss the old videos. I haven’t enjoyed one thing on Watcher. I hate when You Tubers try to be Netflix or Hollywood

[@christinemuller532]

I miss their old videos too. I haven't enjoyed Watcher at all. I am also just sad with this move as I had lots of respect for Ryan and Shane

[@infinitymocha]

I’m surprised you guys didn’t enjoy some watcher stuff. While ghost and mystery files aren’t what unsolved used to be, puppet history and even are you scared are still fun to watch imo. Mainly cause I feel like Ryan and Shane have fun with those shows. ʅʕ•ᴥ•ʔʃ just my thoughts.

[@pattierotondo1108]

@@infinitymocha I like those too, but they do so few of them that I lose interest and don't go back to see when there is new content anymore. They showed up so rarely on my feed that I stopped bothering. I'm only finding out about this drama over a month after they made the announcement!

[@leximartin6069]

I appreciate your righteous anger in this. Outsiders just don’t feel the same burn fans are right now. Supported them leaving BF just to watch them try to recreate a worse version of it.

[@elle8786]

Agreed! I've watched several videos about this, and before he even said he was a fan I was like 'he's a fan, this is personal, LET'S GO!' So much better than all the other videos combined!

[@indigopentagram3330]

You hit the nail on the head about why this feels so wrong. I remember being happy and proud of them leaving BuzzFeed.

[@dukey19941]

Meh. I've been a fan for years. In the grand scheme of things I can't believe this is that traumatic.

[@lyndsycarson8302]

Idk i like their watcher videos like are you scared?, ghost files, basement files and puppet history. But all steven’s stuff sucked and I didn’t watch worth it on buzzfeed so i didn’t watch any of his videos on watcher

[@alysandraborden9265]

They have a Patreon already. It has 3 tier levels. It shows behind the scenes stuff and the making of the videos. That’s the really f’d up part. They’re just being greedy imo

[@CapucineNighly]

Read somewhere that they take first class flights to their sets along with first class hotels. So.. Dunno if that has any grain of truth. But if that's the case. That would explain why Ryan said it takes over hundreds of thousands to do an ep of their Ghost Files. Literally mismanagement of funds.

[@absolutelytiffany]

Doesn’t KZbin have membership options too? I swear I’ve had channels suggest I get membership. They should try that first, if it’s still a thing.

[@naajculajna]

@@absolutelytiffany they do

[@Radiantheart1111]

I actually think they have four tiers: 5$,10$,25$,100$

[@SD-oi9gr]

They have 4 tiers not 3. The 4th is $100 a month lol.

[@hgmb1705]

Hit the nail on the head with the thought that Steven has more information. The 3 of them are co-founders of Watcher, but Steven is the CEO. In podcasts previously, Ryan and Shane discussed how they made Steven the sole CEO as they had trouble with finances and they naturally slipped into those roles. So it makes sense that Steven is making all the power moves and has all of the financial information behind this choice, but also that he is the one who would benefitting most from this. His shows are the ones that tended to flop on the channel, but removing an active audience means he can produce whatever he likes.

[@kamackmac]

@strangekylo It's because Steven has such a strange, pompous attitude in my opinion. I would watch the occasional episode of Worth It, sure, but there's a reason the live shows are Shane and Ryan. People would NOT show up for a Steven Lim live show. And I think that might hurt his widdle feewings....

[@IjeomaThePlantMama]

I did not know Steven was the CEO, thats so weird to me as i truly see Watcher as a Ryan and Shane venture which they brought Steven into. So hes basically their boss? Yeah the dynamics are falling into place. Steven wants to make more money and likely convinced Ryan that they need to up production, and Shane could either take or leave it. Especially telling how Ryan and Shane did most of the talking in the subsequent apology video. Enough out of you Steven, you got them into this mess (allegedly).

[@amymarquess8188]

That's so sinister

[@HeyitsBri_]

Shane and Ryan can barely make eye contact and look so detached while Steven is engaged and excited af. He’s the only one that doesn’t know the ship is sinking

[@-SarahElizabeth-]

Nah. All three are terrible.

[@lyndiwilson2334]

I think he's excited not only about the money, but this way, he can force his shows on anyone who watches. Does anyone watch Watcher for Steven's content? I don't care for it. Ryan and Shane are the beloved of the fans. Too bad they are gonna lose that

[@lisarodriguez6966]

Steven is the yoko Ono of the group. Least talented to do the most damage.

[@aliengirl5469]

My thoughts exactly

[@gothkitten667]

Shane, I think, saw where this video would lead them and perhaps is cringing from the inevitable backlash.

[@ohhello937]

You've hit the nail on the head with the bad business decisions and overstaffing. They just released their apology and stated they didn't want to lay people off so they pushed the costs to the viewers. It's really irresponsible to have done what they did and expect us to foot the bills.

[@xianbc]

I think that bit where Steven says "that has allowed me to bring the gang back together!" Is very telling. Ryan has a tight expression on his face (Shane also seems off) Ryan has his hand over his mouth, biting on the tip of his thumb and says kind of flatly "that's true YOUR pals". Not "OUR" pals, no excitement in his voice, its like he is not into that change at all. Ryan's reaction reminds me of myself when im being told about something I'm being made to do that I really don't want to do but for some reason or another I can't just say that. Too put it bluntly, his reaction is me when I have to be nice to someone I'm not very close with excitedly telling me about plans with other people I don't really like that I have little choice but to go along with. Or, they are my dad when I'm excitedly telling him about something that he is half listening to while thinking of all the ways to get out of it.

[@inspiredcolours]

That’s true! I noticed this as well. And Shane tapping his fingers and mouth also doing a tight expression. His look was reminiscent of contempt

[@mungo...]

Their membership rates are a big middle finger to their international audience. Here in Thailand, $6 USD is more than half the daily minimum wage. It’s equivalent to asking someone living in LA to pay $96 a month or $960 a year to watch their videos. Ridiculous.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Their pateron was VERY successful, like up to 60k a month. Their merch was extremely expensive like 80$ a basic hoodie, and 40$ basic white tshirt Sponsorships 15-30k maybe more. This isn't something they needed. They needed to budget better. They needed to let go of redundant employees. They needed to downsize the office. There's so many things they could have done. And they chose this.

[@maedchenmusic]

I think steven being the only one NOT to say thank you at the end says a lot. I wonder what other people think, but it comes across as if he harbours some contempt or jealousy towards the watcher fans, as the majority of those fans were really there for Shane and Ryan. It would make sense that he was the one spearheading this new direction for watcher that's so separate from the KZbin community, because he never had an in depth relationship with that community and doesn't have the same emotional attachment to the KZbin fans as Shane & Ryan previously seemed to have. That being said - the final 'thank you' from Shane and Ryan felt so awkward. Especially from Shane. It was rushed, as if he was embarrassed and he knew he was doing the wrong thing. Plus the whole first half of their video was them congratulating themselves on their achievements. Really they should have added a segment on the history with the fans and stuff. Not that this would have made people more happy to pay for a streamer, but at least properly acknowledge them, pay tribute, thank them sincerely... Just such a weird vibe. And the sudden fade out at the end... As if they consciously didn't want to acknowledge the fans, because they KNEW this wasn't a move for the fans. it was for them. Totally nuts. As a unsolved, puppet history and ghost files fan of 5 years, I'm utterly confused and floored by this.

[@リヴァイ-v1c]

So real, I bet right after the cameras stopped rolling, they just sat there in silence going “well, we’ve done it…” And I don’t believe Shane and Ryan would just willingly sever all ties with their fans like that. They literally came up with the Postmortems to involve their fans MORE, they had so many live events, hell, people dressed as them for Halloween and sent them fan art - all for them to turn around and go “you’re better off as silent ATM machines”? No, I don’t believe it one bit.

[@lovefool.99]

Greed.

[@reganhoover2127]

Anyone remember that their shows were on Hulu? I didn't watch on there because there was no comments or audience engagement

[@kaytea0963]

BuzzFeed videos are on Hulu now, I'm not sure why. But there shouldn't be any watcher videos on Hulu at all

[@Cove_Blue]

I found them on there and then switched to KZbin just so I could engage. That was right before they created Watcher so I subbed so dang fast. I can't believe they blew this all up in such a short amount of time.

[@Its_like_the_T-Rex]

How are they going to have debreifs without audience participation? That was a huge selling factor to their shows. Too many spirits literally gets its contents from the audience .

[@BroConKin]

Unsolved is on Prime too

[@elizabethlovett4318]

I remember but I'm on youtube more anyway so I stick to that.

[@darlingcoffee3680]

While watching this “An Update” from Watcher, came across my feed. I clicked so fast and watched it. I’m now back to watch the rest of your video. Thank you for your breakdown. I fully agree with you on this matter. After having watched the update I don’t know if I can accept their apology. I am still flabbergasted that the “Goodbye” video made it to the posting phase. They couldn’t honestly believe it would be well received.

[@ihatemylife7682]

I can’t really take the apology seriously because I feel like they 100% would have gone through with it if it had gotten less backlash.. like they probably thought their fans would just do anything for them and when they noticed that a large part actually wouldn’t continue supporting them blindly they back paddled only because otherwise they would have lost more money than gained if they stuck with the original plan :/

[@jamie1602]

@@ihatemylife7682 Fair point, but would you or anyone stop doing something stupid if you didn't have someone (or a lot of people) telling you this is stupid? And most people just double down. Most people give non-apologies. I understand what you're feeling and the mistake should never have happened because they thought we'd do anything for them without realizing we're people. We're not little NPCs in games to support their main characters to do everything. But no human being stops doing stupid behavior. We don't have these moments where our conscience beats some sense into us and drags us to the right answer. We also don't always make good choices, even if we should know better. I need to see what happens after the apology to make a better observation of what happens now.

[@scorpionheart]

Steven is neutral throughout because he has no attachment to the audience because it's not his audience. It's Shane and Ryan's audience

[@adhdtwinmom]

You make a good point. Even if someone wanted to pay for another subscription they are still losing because they can not interact with the content anymore by leaving a comment. I watch a lot of KZbin on my TV so I don't think I could even watch there website on my TV since they don't even have an app yet.

[@lisahoshowsky4251]

It just felt like they made the wrong choice and chose the wrong wording and visuals at every turn. -Open with a shot of the Hollywood sign implied to be from their studio $$$ -Bringing back the show that most blatantly screams money being spent but also preforms the least well headed by the person fans feel the least connection to -Telling fans they don’t want multi-million dollar companies to fund them anymore, they want the regular person who’s probably living paycheque to paycheque -revealing they have 25+ staff and still have to hire onsite freelancers to do shoots -assuming people couldn’t figure out a rough minimum amount their yt revenue, sponsorships, patreon, merch, and live shows were bringing in -forgetting they are basically a cult of personality but then blindsiding their fans with this choice, no polling, no asking for opinion, just cutting them off cold -the fairly lavish lifestyles shown on their public social media pages -saying $6 USD is affordable for everyone when you’ve got an international fan base in a cost of living crisis and in the middle of streamer fatigue. Maybe it is “affordable” but you’re putting out less than 10 hours of content a month and that $6 could go to a streamer than has thousands of hours of readily available content, it’s not really about affordability it’s about cost for value and that’s absolutely not there. Oh, I know there’s more but just those alone make them feel extremely out of touch and downright disrespectful. I can understand the uncertainty of YT revenue, I can understand wanting to stretch your creative wings a bit more but there were so many other courses of action. Scale back a little on your beloved shows to where they are just good enough not amazing, people are there for Shane and Ryan anyways, cut back on some staff it sucks to fire people but it’s better than laying everyone off, have a YT membership or patreon tier that goes directly to funding a more TV like quality show if that’s what you need to feel fulfilled, join a service like Nebula, etc etc. There were so many options and steps before making this kind of final decision that just alienated fans and basically told them they don’t matter while also holding your hand out to them for money.

[@jleigh329]

Exactly! It all reminds me of the line in the movie "Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story." Where Kate tells White Goodman "You'd fire me, so I'd date you?!" To me it all comes across like that. Like that have that same mentality White Goodman has in that movie. Then they do a surprised Pikachu face and then expect sympathy. The damage is already done and unfortunately...I think this is something they can't come back from.

[@MrsBungle78]

Yes, yes & yes! $6 USD is roughly what I’d pay for many other streaming services (in Australia), albeit the less expensive ones, but with *much* less content. Also, I don’t understand the desperate need for tv quality production. They’re ignoring the fact that sooo many people have switched from tv to YT because they prefer the realness, the sense of community & lack of overproduction. Besides, there are countless channels with 1 or 2 creators working on their content with amazing production quality, on their own! Nobody needs 25+ employees! Talk about “biting the hand that feeds you”. They’re actually biting 2 hands- YT & their fans that have stuck by them from waaaay back to the BuzzFeed days! They need to: 1. Go back to the drawing board & reassess this idiotic plan. 2. Beg for forgiveness. 3. Stop trying to make Steven a thing…it’s not gonna happen!

[@thedhanirose]

Oh I was not expecting this video so quick to upload. But I was waiting for the take on this dumpster fire.

[@Ai愛ofSauron]

I'm so glad this video happened. It means a lot coming from someone who is also a fan of the Ghoul Boys so there's deeper insight to this analysis.

[@arsena5209]

I don't even watch this channel since a long while ago and language analysis is bs but I like this guy regardless, he always seemed chill even if I don't like this type of content anymore, so I'm thankful for this video because it's funny to see everyone and their mother talking about how this decision by Watcher is horrible for their business hahah

[@bossyspaghetti]

OMG! 4 hours ago they posted and update, and from the first second, you can see a MASSIVE shift in dynamic! You should do an update as well bc it is fascinating.

[@lisabeloved]

Yea, I saw a noticeable shift in the dynamics as well in their update/apology video. I'd love to see Logan's take on their body language!

[@Amy-kv2zw]

One positive thing that i've learned from this whole mess is that there's a whole sea of youtubers who are somehow able to make quality, nicely edited content in a matter of days. Kudos to ya!

[@cheechel96]

The fact that their good bye video has such high production as well is wild

[@lisabeloved]

Yea.... it all feels very hypocritical

[@serotoninseeker2411]

Right?? It’s crazy that probably 25+ people worked on this and nobody was like ??? Maybe not this way???

[@eyecu382]

Shane looks like my mum used to when she was 'disappointed" with my behaviour. xx

[@samanthawest27]

Did everyone also see Ryan’s smirk when he said “yeah you get to hang out with your pals?” I think this is 100% Steven, and since he became CEO and the others stepped down from that maybe they’re bound by contract or something and have to along with it. I just can’t believe Ryan and especially Shane would be on board with this!

[@SleepyLeeeee]

Yes, that was a good catch.

[@BistrosHouse]

25 employees and complaining about finances is crazy… that’s sooo many employees

[@cinematicsarcastic]

I have a super small channel, 56 subscribers, I'm proud of every single one. And I would never want to give them up, my favorite part is being able to chat with them on youtube. Sometimes finding your people is worth more than just making money.

[@thareelhelloagain]

For real! I have like 163 on my main and they're all the biggest sweeties! I'd literally never say goodbye to a single one willingly, I love those little goobers. They're mine!

[@tiarailic4086]

Totally get you! Best of luck to your channel! 😊

[@cinematicsarcastic]

@@thareelhelloagain lol i feel the same way!

[@pandora2658]

Thank you for this video. I appreciate both the body language observations and the insights as an experienced KZbinr. You have confirmed/supported everything I was already thinking/suspecting, and it will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.

[@jollytamale3685]

I knew Shane and Ryan had grown disconnected from their audience when they wore $80 tees and gold chains to eat "local" food from restaurants the locals cant afford, and had more passion doing that than I'd seen in anything on their new channel to date. In my opinion, i think the dose of humility this move will provide will be good for them

[@arsena5209]

judging by how they are and have been acting I bet it will not give them any humility whatsoever, they'll just blame it on their audience lmao

[@maryjanedodo]

​@@arsena5209 can't blame their audience if they no longer have one

[@CapucineNighly]

Well read around that they take first class trips to where they gotta film and first class hotels.... I dunno if that's true but it would make sense why they spent so much for ONE episode.

[@midoriioyama9548]

@@CapucineNighly i believe they sleep in budget hotels, but idk about airplanes

[@FukaiKokoro]

Even their merch is insanely priced.. Like 80$ basic hoodies and 40$ basic white tshirts... Craziness

[@abigailrose1806]

I couldn't even watch this video (edit: the original watcher video, I'm now seeing it fully with the comfort of Logan giving breaks throughout and giving me assurance that I'm not the only one who is aghast). It feels like a face-slap to everyone who followed them from their Buzzfeed days to Watcher. They're already so greatly supported, and though I understand wanting to better your business, you never piss off your fan base/consumers. Logan, thank you for your well-thought-out video. I was so angry and couldn't even comment on this horrid tragedy because I was too emotionally undone by it. As far as whether Watcher will continue whether or not they retain fans continues to remain...unsolved.

[@cdplayerjunkie]

Ya I've only been able to watch it through commentary channels. I feel so bad for their patreon subscribers.

[@lisahoshowsky4251]

I caught it like right when it came out so there were no breakdowns yet so I watched it on 2x speed and still took breaks😅 it was not pleasant but I needed to see how it would play out. I’m really enjoying this breakdown of it because it confirms a lot of things I noticed or suspected but didn’t have the heart to go back and watch at normal speed to really take in.

[@lisabeloved]

I'm doing the same thing... couldn't stand to watch the original video, but since the Update video came out I'm watching the original here through the emotional "safety" of Observe 😥

[@lisabeloved]

It just felt so icky without even watching it.

[@ronboone187]

Hey @ObserveKZbin ... I think you missed one crucial moment. @53:41 ... After Steven Lim said, "It's allowed me to bring the gang back together..." Ryan replies, "That's true... Your Pals." I think that's a real telltale sign of animosity towards Lim and shows that it was Steven in charge of this COLOSSAL disaster Would love to hear your thoughts on my theory... hope to have cracked the code here, but if not... hey... I tried. Thanks for all the comments.. I'll be moving my future comments to an exclusive site for a VERY affordable price of $5.99 😂😂😂

[@Starfighter_Cookies]

You shouldve said “and unlike watcher, I’ll see you in the next video “

[@thatsalt1560]

😂

[@docsaico]

This video was fantastic and cathartic! You felt the pain the rest of us did, and explained how stupid their announcement was better than any of us could. Thank you for your amazing work! Would LOVE to see you cover their new update, too!

[@Celeste.Martel]

The way you explained KZbin is why I love the platform so much. The personality of the individuals behind the channels.

[@elsierocketship6361]

So, this is kind of a rant, a few things that really bothered me about Watcher's video, when Ryan says "Were just hoping you'll follow us one last time." That felt like a guilt trip from a crappy boyfriend who's saying, "I'm just hoping you'll give me another chance" just so that he can mistreat you again. At the very end of the video, when saying goodbye, shane talks about what the viewers have let them accomplish, Ryan talks about wanting to build this thing bigger, and Steven says... absolutely nothing. Shane gives a final acknowledgement to the viewers. Ryan is hoping about the future. Steven says NOTHING. I can't even count the little finger thing he does because what even is that? He doesn't say goodbye, like the other two do. It really shows the disconnect between Steven and the audience, because it was obvious which videos got the most views on the channel, the things Ryan and Shane have done together. The most engagement Steven really got was only a short time ago when he hired on the two people to help do a reboot of worth it essentially. The engagement wasn't about Steven, it was about the other two people. That's who people were excited for. Even in the comments on every platform, KZbin, reddit, x, Tumblr, FB/insta, we didnt come here to watch Steven eat fancy foods and fly around the world, we came for Ryan and Shane hunting ghosts and talking about mysteries and history. And don't get me started on the irony of saying you're going to reboot a show thats premise is 'are these fancy things worth the money?' And then days later making your entire audience consider 'are these content creators after everything they've just done, worth it?' In my opinion, Watcher TV, not worth it. And it truly does feel like Steven has capitalized on Shane and Ryan's popularity to fund his own efforts, which just aren't as popular, and just enable him to do all these things he wants to do that the viewers don't care about. I'm not wondering if some fancy foods or expensive vacations are worth it, because I'm never going to be able to afford it so why would I care?

[@NiallSkye]

I got the same vibe at the end. Ryan and Shane said bye... And Steven just sat there awkwardly. It was cringy af.

[@abigailvanvleet]

Well-articulated points, my friend!

[@averylouise1024]

Love to see a deep dive on this from someone who was actually a fan of the ghoul boys before all this went down. I would’ve never expected this from them… Edit to add: They could’ve 100% moved to Dropout and that would’ve worked out better for everyone. There were so many other, better options.

[@Glm867]

Observe: Are you EVER going to address the accusations you aren’t qualified to analyze BL per your X? It’s disturbing 😳 enough to make me question if I’m being BS’d🤷‍♀️ by your channel 😮😢 Not the other stuff she said but about your expertise. No hate & your personal life is your business. But I’m referring to your expertise/experience 🥺🥹😵‍💫🫨 Hopefully you’ll make your followers secure its legitimate analysis. I was following but waiting for your response only on that O. I’m just waiting to hopefully refollow & I can’t be alone on this

[@Ai愛ofSauron]

They decided "eat the rich" meant "devour the poor".

[@kirbinthekrab]

Honestly it would just be tears lol 😂 I'm kind of heartbroken

[@princess_durpface8654]

When I initially saw their “goodbye KZbin” title I thought they were announcing a move to Dropout because a show like Puppet History would THRIVE on Dropout

[@Nagarath16]

Dropout wouldn't probably take them, because their business plan and spending books are so bad, but Dropout would have been open probably a collabs and giving good advice how to do it - what is a lot - Watcher just didn't ask.

[@laura_jones]

the end of their video really really is giving "it's not you, it's me" breakup vibes. it's so awkward and alarming.

[@manaruva]

I’ve been a fan of the ghoul boys for years and when I watched the video I really tried to see their point of view, low key believing that it made sense for them to make this decision. I don’t know much about editing or filming so I really appreciate that you took time to explain and show us that’s there so many other ways to go. Thank you for this🖤

[@ft.meganmccarthy8865]

Of course Shane doesn't have much genuine interest in making ghost files. From his perspective they're spending thousands of dollars to walk around dark buildings, play with tech toys, and speak to the air 😂

[@TitanSpeedEngineering-7354]

It the was the best part of the show. Ryan scared out of his mind and Shane stirring the pot

[@wackaiya]

Oh I can’t wait for part 2. They just dropped an update

[@LoriTalbot-du2qt]

I loved their content and will miss it, but all good things must come to an end I guess. I will find something else to watch.

[@NeuroPandas]

I am super sad to lose this channel. Puppet History gets me through a lot of work days because the energy and familiarity helps me focus. I just cant add another subscription service, especially one that will have so little content. At the very least this will end up being an interesting study on if creators can survive this kind of change.

[@NeuroPandas]

I made this comment before seeing the very end, they mentioned the little blue guy coming back (puppet history) why was that ever considered cancelled? 1-2 mil views per video and they ALWAYS had a sponsor in them. How is that not successful for them? a puppet show in a single room, a few cameras and graphics made in editing.

[@juu0n]

@@NeuroPandas if you haven’t seen it, they backtracked real quick lmao- so you’ll have your little blue buddy back

[@michelleramos410]

What Ryan said about "bringing in new faces" is almost what Keith said verbatim when they talked about changes in the Try Guys after Ned got booted.

[@teacherexplained853]

Im sad to see them leave YT. I’m worried their content will die.

[@maryjanedodo]

Oh it will.

[@justascaredgreycat1869]

It definitely will and that’s sad.

[@justjosh999]

I am very worried about this, I could see them being very successful and continuing to grow if they made something similar to Mythical. It is free, but if you want more you can pay.

[@-SarahElizabeth-]

I sincerely hope it does.

[@Mystipaoniz]

They show you how trash they are as people, and you would still want to watch their content? Why? People want to be lied to, want to be deceived. They don't care. As long as they have their "content". I think it's weird.

[@allison8752]

When steven says "it would be great to rely less on advertisement" it means that he wants to rely on viewers funding their shows and high production costs. How can he not see that that is exactly what it means to not rely on ad revenue (from billion $ companies) anymore... Why would the viewers want to fund steven flying all over the world to eat fancy, extravagant food??

[@kristinmcgary8926]

I think when they left buzzfeed they expected to have same success as the Try Guys and it didnt happen for them. Rather then adjusting content, they tried to fix it with adding staff, but production wasnt the issue, content was. So now they are stuck in this "we had a big show and following" mindset and aren't seeing it pan out, and think it must be something else causing it to happen, couldn't be what they put out there. I loved their buzzfeed shows, I tried to watch Watcher but it never hooked me, so I moved on

[@AbigailMaureenVI]

I honestly stopped watching them for the most part when Steven started showing up more often. I found his on camera personality off putting. I’m not surprised that he is the one at the forefront of this boneheaded move.

[@DrJeykl]

I like how Ryan’s head is tilted down and chewing on his thumbnail saying “your pals”; when Steven was talking about bringing in his friends from the “worth it” videos. That seems telling to me.

[@karavani]

Never thought I would live to see the day where Shane and Ryan would be in an observe video but god it’s warranted- this is a route I never thought they would take

[@tanksleyalicia]

I only ever like Shane and Ryan. I never liked any of the other people on the show. This video they put out about leaving sucks for them because they are honestly making the biggest mistake. They will learn and most people are going to leave if they ever come back

[@margotk538]

Content ideas that can help Watchers to expand without needing to spend more money: 1. Ghost File Asia/Europe - So many developing countries in Asia/Europe are haunted; you can buy a multi-country plane ticket and stay in a hostel with just Shane/Ryan and a camera/sound guy for 1 month. Shoot everything and come back. Done. 2. Ghost File-Reality Show-Get your fans to sign up to join the Ghost File tour and film them competing in a reality game show. You'll get free guests and more fun as they will be spooked. 3. Are you Scared? In the last few seasons, the endings of those stories lacked luster; they need better, more horrifying stories with satisfying endings. The production value is acceptable, but the stories aren't exciting or scary enough. 4. Worth It. - Kill the show. Sonny Side (Best Ever Food Reviews) did it much better. He has no problem operating with himself and his wife; his team is in Vietnam, so he has much lower expenses. If you still want to do it, the restaurants can probably sponsor by just having them pay at costs, not the total price amount, due to the publicity. 5. Puppet History-The production Value is already good, so there is no need to make it bigger. It could include guests. 6. Team up with another platform. Collaborations increase team awareness and instantly get fans from both channels to watch. Maybe invite Uncle Roger to go Ghost Hunting or Worth It with you.

[@G0thSpic3]

Well, I can’t wait to watch you analyze the update they just posted lol. They backpedaled so hard.

[@kaylenc05]

What a mess these guys did! And then how come there is NO ONE in charge of their socials? Literally all hell is breaking loose and not a peep from their side to at least try and do some damage control. And this is especially true when we have their rich friends lecturing us on social media.

[@vanessalosangeles]

Im so glad you did this, i wanted to see what you thought… big fan of yours and i have used some body language analysis in my day to day life so thank you!!

[@cydvicious88]

It's a bummer what they're doing. I feel like they are definitely selling out. I initially felt like Shane is the one who isn't fully down for the move hence him saying to share the password lol regardless it's a bit of a shame. I truly wish them all the best. Sad to see them go

[@beckymccarthy7016]

They always pick on shane for picking the most obscure things, but he always seemed to have a better grasp on what real people wanted.

[@gracewatson5462]

I have my suspicions that the people they hired were mostly friends that they might’ve promised a job for but ended up not being able to financial sustain all of them. Maybe they feel too bad firing people due to the economy or overestimated the potential size of their channel. 🤷‍♀️

[@thebananapanda1035]

Viva la dirt league (one of my fave channels) make amazing videos on yt. Their mini film Baelins route 10/10. They didn't feel the need to leave youtube and put all their content behind a paywall. They don't seem restricted by what they can do. Markiplier, another of my faves makes exceptional content and again isn't restricted, he's literally making his own film iron lung.

[@arsena5209]

wow, Markiplier is making a film based on the game Iron Lung? is that what that is? I dont watch him but now im really interested! 😯

[@thebananapanda1035]

@@arsena5209 yea it’s based the game lol. I actually can’t remember a thing about the game coz he plays so many horrors Ive lost track but I’m excited to see what he makes!

[@KerylRaist]

VLDL crowdfunded their production company to the tune of several million dollars of start up capital when they wanted to expand. They crowdfunded Baelin's Route the same way. Could Watcher have done that? Maybe. But VLDL can do what it does because KZbin is not their primary source of income.

[@thebananapanda1035]

@@KerylRaist I know lol, the point is they used other means & didn’t lock their audience into a 6 dollar sub to see their content. So if one group is capable of gaining funds with an alternative method then so is watcher. They have an audience that love them but the audience seem to just want fun content & dynamic between the 2 who do ghost stuff. Watcher seems to want…tv shows? 🤷‍♀️. The 3rd dude ppl don’t even seem to care about. They could’ve done it differently but chose to pick this.

[@HateTheEnding]

Absolutely. Those guys have just built themselves a studio and they constantly thank fans for being able to do it.

[@jennieteen]

I hadn't given much thought to the new platform's lack of a comments section, but now that you explained it, it makes the taste in my mouth even more bitter.

[@kitanasdaughter]

Seeing the thumbnail for this video I literally screamed. Never thought I’d see the day where our Ghoul Bois (and Steven) were being analyzed by Observe 😭😭

[@uhhh4049]

I mean he's done several videos on the ghoul boys lol

[@bandit_of_trash]

So what I'm getting is basically Steven's series aren't doing as well as Ryan and Shane's and they think putting it on their own website will improve that? If people aren't watching it on YT, they won't watch it on the website either. Steven just isn't as entertaining as Ryan and Shane.

[@CandyassGoth]

35:09 this is exactly right. People were saying 'vote with your wallet' and I was like, well my vote is by default then because I have no choice. I'm forced out of the picture because I can't afford it

[@imeantloveyou5eva]

the overly produced shots, the manufactured emotional pauses… it’s honestly just making me laugh.

[@kelsey_0516]

I think 2nd Try LLC has around 20-25 staff but they have 8 million followers and much bigger productions that make sense for that amount of staff; 25 for watcher seems crazy to me

[@akaneakane1969]

Damn, I didn't expect to see you talk about this but I'm totally ready to hear about it!

[@psychadelicpotato8580]

I expected this since he's been a fan of the ghoul boys back from the unsolved day.

[@akaneakane1969]

​@@psychadelicpotato8580 Oh you're right! I totally forgot about that, he's been a fan! No wonder he looks so disappointed :(

[@English3Muffin]

I really appreciate your insight and thoughts on this, both professionally and personally as a fan. I’ve been watching them since the early Buzzfeed Unsolved days, and this has been so upsetting to see. I genuinely want them to succeed, and I hope their disconnect from their community isn’t so severe that they can recognize this isn’t something we want and that a lot of people can’t follow them to a paid subscription even if they wanted to. I want to see them recover from this. I’m sure they’ve lost people they won’t get back and this will always mark them- the trust they’ve built of the years has definitely been shaken with this, but man do I love their content and I would hate to see it go. I hope this is a big learning lesson from this and they try to salvage what’s been done here. Parasocial relationships are a bitch, man.

[@hanlore13]

Thank you for covering this!! You confirmed what my friends and I were thinking regarding their communications, both verbal and nonverbal. It felt like a true betrayal. I haven't watched their new update but I am excited to eventually see your reaction to it!

[@mslim8412]

I appreciate the length of the video and the quality of the information you covered in this video. Thank you so much.

[@Pamelandiiahx]

They upload a new video an hour ago, they address what the community were saying about this decision, I hope you can make a new video about that video. Shane looks so sad in the new video :(

[@tranngocanh6713]

Yeah, I saw his eyes is a bit red

[@Theroha]

He looked like he had been crying, but he honestly looked happier. It read as he didn't really want to do this but isn't a money guy so went along with it trusting the people who are better with the business side. I'm not saying he's innocent in it all, but I don't think he wanted to do things the way they were and is much happier with the new direction.

[@stormystewart36]

would love to see your take on the update video, specifically the psychological choice to move Shane to the middle of the frame!

[@elle8786]

I love that most of this video was just 'let's tear apart this terrible decision!' It's so fascinating to hear why it's a bad move from KZbinrs. And the fact that it's by someone who's also a fan added to the experience

[@black79montecarlo123]

It's Steven and Ryan. Shane said to share it because he has no option other than to go with it and probably doesnt like the situation. Steven is the CEO and holds a lot of the power going into decision making.

[@acleanpairofsocks]

Personally I think that might be wishful thinking. Steven doesn’t hold 100% of the power, all 3 need to sign off on things, and all 3 did. Believe me, I don’t want to believe that Shane would do something like this, but he’s a big boy and unfortunately chose this.

[@CrabbyCallahan72]

@@acleanpairofsocks you don't know what's behind the scenes and what they're thinking.. shane could have been convinced into this by steven. I 100% think steven played a big role in this massive blunder. i don't know about ryan but i know for a fact shane didn't look at the magnificent business decision and said "this is completely the right move to make!" i've been watching since the first unsolved episode came out with him and it's just so out of character for him to willingly or happily agree to this.

[@black79montecarlo123]

@@CrabbyCallahan72 I'm with you on this.

[@idamadsen288]

"have an ad segment, which-" *ad for prime booms loudly" ouch my ears but damn the timing

[@sav44474]

The apology video is in the wild, y’all 🫣

[@HerbieRey]

I saw them live in Glasgow last week. The first half of the show they didnt even come on stage, they just played a pre-recorded video of them introducing the show, and then showed a FULL episode of Ghostfiles. Didnt even come out to say 'hello and welcome' to the audience. The second half they did a half arsed interview with their Producer, then a chaotic Q&A with the audience, and then a brief underproduced Too Many Spirits rendition with stories people had tweeted them before the show. It was so bizarrely vague and you'd think following this awful video issue theyd have picked up on the need to give their fans proper engagement and interaction, rather than to feel more distanced

[@Ashley-vs8nu]

They thoroughly underestimated their audience's intelligence and took the relationship created for granted. They must have felt the repore they built was iron clad no matter what new step they took and that their subscribers would blindly follow. The delusion is real with this one. However, I do feel the levels vary.

[@river8777]

I really appreciated you spending time debunking their statements. I'm not a youtuber and I don't know the backgrounds of running a channel, but even so, what they said in their video rang hollow to me. I'm glad that my instincts were correct.

[@tosiebel5522]

Also my observations physical and verbal were that Steven said bring back something to the effect of “my friends” and Ryan said “yeah your friends” with some vitriol. I’ve always seen Ryan to have somewhat of an ego or wanting accolades but he seemed sad or something- like he’s begging for us to keep with them. Shane seems really really uncomfortable 😣

[@megansutherland9450]

This was a great analysis of both the watcher decision and the goodbye video. Its also great that you are a youtuber, former fan, and bring the skills you have to this because it gives the analysis such a depth of knowledge. Im so sad the ghoul boys did us this way but im glad you and others have called them out on their manipulative and gaslighty lies. Appreciate you! Though im so sad :(

[@WinnieTheJew]

Your eloquence is mind-boggling You said all the things that I was thinking all the things that I hadn't thought of and brought it all to such a wonderful perspective. I appreciate your work dude 💯

[@jade_maus_]

Wanted to comment based on your quality argument for your channel and your hopes and aspirations. Logan, your content is high quality! It was actually one of my first draws to you, the intro, the set, the sound, your professional qualifications. What made me stay was your personality coming through, the subtle changes with time, the balance between trending and intriguing content to you. You are a very, very good KZbin channel. You are what these boys have sadly given up. Keep it up.

[@stephaniespurling6105]

I kinda feel like they tried to get on Netflix and Netflix turned them down so now this whole streaming service is one big pissing contest with Netflix.

[@cydvicious88]

According to Social Blade, between 4/15-4/21 they've last 80,000 subscribers

[@jvaillancourt21]

I think more people should unsub to prove a point

[@Kat-lt6qd]

​@@jvaillancourt21I think a stronger point would be made if more people subbed to their YT, without watching anything, they only make money from views. Then zero sub to their new streaming service. Like a kinda middle finger to them, a look what numbers you could have had if you hadn't dropped YT.

[@Phil-n1p]

Oy ! 80,000 ! A channel I watch called Therapy Today just 5,000 subs last week after almost a year and you'd think he won the lottery. Wow .

[@AM-cv9fi]

I think its over 100,000 now

[@jediping]

Thanks for this. I’ve been iffy on the move, on large part because streaming services do not make money. And they’re tech companies, not studios/producers/film companies. The problems and solutions are entirely different than anything they’ve dealt with so far in their careers. Granted, they may want a change, and that’s totally fair. They’ve been doing the same type of stuff for years. Heck, even just being tired of having to always find a creative solution instead of being able to outsource it or do it the “right” way is understandable after so long. It’s POSSIBLE they want to do something like Nebula (or whatever it’s called) but for less educational content and more silly stuff. But then that should have been the announcement, not this. And I’ll be honest, some of the Watcher stuff has felt … much less polished in a way I have struggled to identify. Like, looks good, but some of the editing choices of stuff they keep in vs stuff they cut have puzzled me. Puppet History is an exception, because it’s clearly just Shane being his goofball self, and they leave in stuff like him having the wrong puppets, but Ghost Files feels much less focused than their previous adventures. Which makes me less anxious to sign up. Not sure I’m a fan of the “Blame Stephen” theory tho. It feels like not accepting that maybe Ryan and/or Shane could be pushing it as well. Like he’s more the outrider so can be easier to blame. Sure, it could be, but I don’t see it as likely. He does seem to be the more organized of them, so he might be the one with the details because of that more than because he’s the one (or the only one) pushing it. Either way, it does seem like a horrible plan, and I’m not excited by it like I was when they made their own channel.

[@sootekken]

I do agree with you, while I do think that Steven might be the one pulling the most strings, it’s possible that this decision had been talked up to Ryan to the point that he thinks he can’t improve in any other way besides the streamer. I see in what he says that he takes production and wanting to be a “high quality” creator way too seriously in a way that affects his decision making. Shane on the other hand I feel like is the one person in all of this that is not blinded by the want for more funds especially with his kind of quiet demeanor during the video, and his comment about sharing accounts. He’s always been the one who seemed to just be there because he enjoyed making content with his friends, not for the money. I really hope they can all understand that not enough people appreciate where they’re coming from and that they walk this back.

[@IronWangCreates]

If they wanted to increase their quality and ability to hire, they should have done that AFTER the money came in. You scale up as the money comes in, you don’t scale up *before* the money. How many big brands have we seen over expand and then have to close stores? I think they started too big, when the try guys restarted they didn’t have a beautiful office and crazy sets. They had backdrops in a house with the cast and crew in the background. If they wanted to take the quality to a next level, then it should only have been done when they had the funds. As a gift. It’s almost entitled that they think because THEY want a certain quality, we should pay them. I’d rather less quality.

[@pinkpeonygirl]

I follow a variety of ytchannels covering very different video subjects, but they all have one thing in common: I like the person in front of the camera. It can be their relatability, their intelligence, sense of humor, compassion, kindness or excellence in their field that draws me in, but I have to like them. Like you said, editing and lighting etc are icing on the cake.