Water Pump Pulley Repair: Brazing a New Side Wall and Machining the V-Groove on the Metal Lathe

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[@steesbassoon]

Keith, I always appreciate your resourcefulness in finding solutions to problems that come up during the process. I also appreciate that you share with us the failed attempts as well as the solution. This says a lot about you as a person and a machinist!

[@bigford1578]

Thanks for repairing my pulley for me! Looks like a good repair should hold up on this old tractor that's gonna be a parade queen. I'll let you know how she holds up when I get the engine back together and running. I'm glad we still have people with your skills in the world. I don't have the skills or the equitment to have attempted this.

[@oldfarthacks]

Just a question. Given the simple nature of this pulley, why not just slap a hunk of steel into the lathe and turn a new copy? In fact, for making the old girl pretty, why not in bronze that you could then polish? Just asking.

[@truckguy6666]

Do us a favor and get Keith some video of it running so he can post on his channel.

[@htral]

Moline Parts sells those new - #RE505A pulleys made from 4320

[@bigford1578]

@@htral charlie is a good man and sells lots of parts. This one was a good candidate for repair. Nice to see things still get repaired once and awhile.

[@htral]

@@bigford1578 True - just know the trouble he went to to get those made

[@SciPunk215]

I knew it was going to be trouble getting that piece to sit right. This method seemed to work just fine!!

[@truckguy6666]

I wonder if you could have "set" the pulley and the little piece in some of that babbitt damming material in such a manner that it held it steady and dammed up the bronze from spilling away.. Just a thought. Either way great work.

[@geraldharkness8830]

excellent workmanship keith

[@butter262]

Good evening

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks Keith for the video. Hope your trip is going well.

[@dcrog69]

Good work.

[@jamesdavis8021]

This job would be a perfect application for EZ Weld,cast iron tig welding rods.I was skeptical but,curious about it so, I bought some.I like it much better than brazing for cast iron.You really should give it a try.

[@paulputnam2305]

Thanks Keith. Awesomeness Extreme!

[@casycasy5199]

nice job

[@andreabennett]

Nice job, Keith!

[@smudgemo]

I'm curious what you'd try next time if something similar showed up again. I suspect I'd have spent a lot more effort trying to hold the chip in place for brazing without thinking of just building up new metal.

[@RobertFay]

*- Brazing an unobtainium water-pump-pulley.* *- Kieth, I like your idea to machine a whole pulley out of a chunk of steal.* *- Except for authenticity, why would anyone go to the bother and work of casting a pulley and then doing machining to finish it?*

[@richardtaylor7199]

👍

[@jacilynns6330]

Pulleys are never true there is almost always some waviness to them. Biggest problem with this one was the amount of oil soaked in it. Oil, diesel fuel and brake fuel for some reason. You can tell by the sparky flame that shot out, brake fluid. Only way to get rid of it in cast iron is to heat it out.

[@daedaluscan]

Hose clamp?

[@андрейступников-в7э]

Проще было новый сделать

[@RROOBBWWAANN]

7:50 Clamp too tight?

[@Galerak1]

Probably not initially, but with the thermal expansion of the part it ended up too tight and popping the clamp. That's my theory anyway.

[@emilgabor88]

Too much work for a pulley .I would just made the new one and would have been much faster and probably cheaper

[@Scrizati]

That's a huge amount of thermal expansion on that small pulley. No easy way to clamp that

[@apistosig4173]

clamp down upon a flat surface such as welding table - braze the inside until fast and then unclamp, secure workpiece anew, and braze external area.

[@peterhobson3262]

That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't have even tried to braze that little piece back onto the pulley but instead just built up metal like Keith ended up doing.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Why not run a shaft (even of wood) though the pulley to hold it fast, then use something like the Babbit daming material to old the chip? Or, it seems to me that just turning a new piece would be faster and perhaps more robust.

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

@@apistosig4173 My worry with that is would some of the braze run off or seep through and braze the whole item to the table. Lay it flat on a right good flat ceramic tile???

[@tsmartin]

@@alstonofalltrades3142 Not only that but a welding table would suck all the heat out which is why he put it on the fire brick in the first place. I would have just laid it flat on the fire brick and built it up rather than clamp it in a vise. Less issues with the braze falling out.

[@paullangenkamp]

Thanks Keith for showing the whole process the failure and frustration at the beginning as well as a success at the end.

[@pacificcoastpiper3949]

That’s one cranky old pulley

[@Aardvark613]

Glad that I'm not the only one who can take a quick job and make it into a Project

[@TheFreshmanWIT]

I would have just remade the pulley out of durabar or something, it seems like a pretty simple pulley, and I'm absolute garbage at brazing :D I'm amazed at how well your brazing turned out, though you always manage to impress with your skills!

[@phillipcrable8186]

It's nice to see these small jobs along with all of Keith's other big projects. The small ones help us learn how to get to the big ones.

[@petert3355]

Yeah, the little single video jobs are a nice complement to the big multi video jobs.

[@csours]

Thanks for showing us the 'wrong way' to do things sometimes. Nobody's perfect and we're all learning!

[@lynnplestid2711]

Looks like it broke from a pulley puller.

[@mwb3984]

Yep, not enough heat or looby-dooby

[@TgWags69]

High temperature 30 or 40% Silver solder (Braze) would be a much better process for this repair. It is just as strong. The silver braze has the advantage of whetting into the joint and crating a near invisible repair. It is a very often overlooked option for cast iron repair. Regular brazing is great but it does not whet down into the joint and requires grinding out a weld prep for a full penetration joint.

[@ThePottingShedWorkshop]

My first thought too. I worked for a guy building cycle frames back in the early 80s and silver braze in capillary joints made very strong joints in bike frames.

[@phlodel]

I'm a fan of TIG welding cast iron with Nickel 99 rod. It would work well for this repair, but I can't say it's really any better than brazing.

[@jacquespoirier9071]

it is the perfect situation to use silver brazing , I use that technique where the parts are broken but not distorded and the advantage is when the parts are properly clamped, no machining is required most of the times. excellent repair video

[@donsundberg5730]

I probably would have tried to do a capillary joint on that one. Blast the joint to make sure its clean. Apply flux to the fracture surfaces. Only apply bronze to one side and have the heat draw it accros the joint. On small parts with a non deformed fracture surface you can get a very strong joint.

[@johnsjunkyard]

I did wonder whether this type of repair was possible using brazing on cast like this, will keep that in mind for future use. :) I was wondering if you could use flame brazing to set the first layer, then build it up using tig from there out as that is what I would have tried I think. Anything to try and control that material with some meaning.

[@millwrightrick1]

Capillary joints are how I was taught to braze in trade school. I was also told to use extra flux as cast iron is dirty and the flux on the rod is insufficient.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing👍.

[@davidhudson5452]

Was a beast took some editing i know

[@ErvRich]

Like several others, I would have used silver solder. You need a new fire brick. They are very flat.

[@chuckinwyoming8526]

I have a 1950 Minneapols-Moline ZAU. The next generation after the ZTU, the ZTU tractors were built from 1936 - 1948. Without a machine shop it is getting very difficult to keep these old tractors running. Last year I had to build up the fins and re-machine the impeller and make a water pump seal. TIG brazing and machining like this pulley. Parts are no longer available. There are several antique tractor collectors working to keep after market parts available but making your own parts is part of the fun..... I still use my ZAU to run the baler !

[@htral]

Moline Parts sells those new - #RE505A pulleys made from 4320

[@TomokosEnterprize]

Hello Keith. I love jobs like this. Sometimesthe old schooled ways are best for old things. Some years ago I fel in love with silver soldering pieces like these. Stronger and lends itself better to a base metal like this. Great post Kieth. Old rules eh, LOL.

[@markosborne2650]

Another great video. Your teaching me a lot Keith, Thank You.

[@TheUncleRuckus]

Can't believe you tried to preheat the part with the arc from the TiG Torch and not an actual torch. 🤣🤣

[@GlennTillema]

That was both educational and entertaining watching you work your way through possible solutions until it was resolved!

[@melshea2519]

Happy Friday Keith 😊

[@bcbloc02]

Saved another part from the junk!

[@johnmcanulty7341]

Where is the Cat?

[@CapnCrusty]

For something that thin, I'd make my flame cone a lot smaller with a pin point flame tip to concentrate the heat in a much smaller area. It would take longer, but due to the smaller heated area it would be less likely to bloop out as it got to temperature.

[@kelvin0mql]

1. loved this. 2. I have an idea for holding the piece in place, & I’d like to know what y’all think… Clay. Lay a 1/2” thick slab of clay on a fire-brick big enough to completely surround the pulley by 1/2” all the way around. Press the pulley & piece into the clay like you’re making a partial mold for casting. Then have the first firing done in a kiln. Then set it in the ceramic “negative” so it’s held in place but not under vise-grip pressure. Braze the inside. Then, hopefully, it’d be possible to gently braze the outside crack without getting the inside too hot & the prior bronze running out. Could that work?

[@ellieprice363]

I doubt it would work but it’s an interesting concept.

[@kelvin0mql]

@@ellieprice363 Another thought is drilling shallow holes in a fire-brick that steel pins could drop in… like bench dogs.

[@ellieprice363]

@@kelvin0mql All ideas deserve serious thought and planning. That’s how successful setups and procedures are developed.

[@bryanh1944FBH]

Gee, your local HVAC/Refrigeration technician would have silver soldered that for you for just a case of beer.

[@davidc6510]

One off small jobs are interesting and fun content. Thanks for another great video Keith.

[@sierraspecialtyauto7049]

Keith, if you don't mind sharing--what brand/type of rod are you using?

[@aserta]

11:42 i've never quite mastered the art of making those thin build ups, so i usually build it just a bit wider than needed - that or ... i chicken out and just braze a piece of everdur in, which is a super easy shortcut to take.

[@iteerrex8166]

The heat was expanding everything. Maybe if there was something to just rest it on, like Babbitt dough, it may have worked.

[@timdouglass9831]

I would have tried a worm-screw hose clamp around the pulley to hold the piece in. It's an excellent way to clamp round things.

[@1978garfield]

Thanks for including the challenging parts. So many KZbin machinist use editing to make it look like everything works perfectly the first time. Have you ever used silicon bronze wire in a MIG welder for brazing?

[@rogerbraidwood7611]

great job ..showing hickups etc .....Alls well that ends well !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@vaalrus]

Heh. I had an oddball pulley off a table saw… a combination v-belt on one end and micro-v on the other, with a bearing journal on the V-belt side… where the two pulley types came together, because of the bearing journal, there was minimal material left. After a few years, the vibration caused to separate. In a desperate hail-mary attempt, (mfg. out of business, and while their taiwan partner still makes near identical saws for other marks, this part was pure unobtanium) I glued it back together using JB Weld, intending to drill and tap some some small holes for re-enforcing bolts. As you can imagine, that was a complete disaster, and I walked cap-in-hand to a local machine shop that I’d done much earth-moving construction for. They replicated my part for less than what a local 3D Print On Demand outfit wanted to charge. So now I have a nice replacement pulley made of steel instead of pot-metal. Only downside is I did have to do some turning on my own, as they replicated my bed of epoxy in the bottom of the large v-belt groove… Lesson learned: Always give your machinist a drawing. :)

[@harrywagner3877]

With a little grimness, determination & ingenuity you can fix most things. !! Nice job !!

[@JohnBare747]

I thought you had it Keith but you had to put one more pass on the edge of the flange and darn if it didn't do exactly what you did not want, Slump. So hard to build up a thin flange like that without having a slump, get it hot enough to flow and instantly the whole thing decides to flow. Very touchy to do. Great job Keith, should work fine but you never know until it gets used in service. Should be no real pressure on the flange, I suspect that was broken off trying to remove it from the water pump with a puller. Not the first and won't be the last to meet that fate. Don't ask me how I know. flanges are safe from me now as in my 80's I'm decades past my last water pump pulling.

[@salamander5703]

Thanks for showing the fails! I've tried similar things with brazing and it's frustrating when it nearly works but doesn't and even more so when you damage the fracture face and it no longer aligns so perfectly. Surprising how much things expand and move when heated up! I did wonder if you could hold the broken piece in with a jubilee clip, so it was evenly clamped. You could even braze the clip to the pulley and cut grind or turn off the clip after the brazing is done. Maybe if a similar job turns up in future...

[@cpbethlehem6548]

Ithink the clamp was the issue of it jumping apart. C clamp would be better.

[@johncurry6047]

Hello again Keith, I must say that I enjoy reading the comment's on your channel? Nearly as much as I like watching the project's. Ok you can buy nearly anything ,but some things just cannot be had. A person re building an old machine has turned to you to help them. You have not let them down! Far to much disposable stuff in the world.

[@danmooney7192]

Do you use a shielding gas when TIG Brazing or just regular brazing flux?

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

I would so geek out if I knew the before and after diameter was. The water pump now has a very slightly lower RPM with slightly higher amount of torque.

[@charleswelch249]

Great job repairing the rare pulley. The problem you had with the tig was the moisture and oils in the pores of the cast iron. If you heated up the whole pulley slowly, then wedded it still hot, it would have been fine. But brazing it was also a good choice sense it's not under a lot of stress or rpm. Great video, and have a happy 4th of July.

[@Mr1990hjc]

I am amazed, I might have been able to fix that little rascal, only WITH many cuss words and a tantrum or two.

[@carrollprice1213]

It should be stronger the way you did it than if you had been successful brazing in the old piece.

[@davidgagnon2849]

It's most likely the clamp was loosening up and falling off each time because of the heat changing the dimension of the pulley: it was no longer tight.

[@victorvanderespt863]

I’ve had real good luck, just tacking the piece in place with the meg welder and then brazing it

[@MikeBaxterABC]

Good one!! :) I love the repair videos!! ... very interesting, and good lessons too!!!

[@lepompier132]

Keith, one other way that would be simpler. Is to machine a new pulley with a piece of round cast iron stock of the same diameter and machine the new pulley.

[@jimc4731]

Wondering about the absence of using “ evaporust” on your projects? 🤔

[@larrywalker7759]

A small box filled with sand.........preferably, foundry sand. Fit the broken piece into place and carefully lay and press the two pieces gently into the sand leaving the inside of the pulley groove exposed for brazing. Heat with a low pressure oxy/acetylene flame that is neutral or slightly carburizing. Keep the bulk of the flame directed at the large pulley component. When the base material of the larger part begins to turn red bring the brazing rod into the flame and allow it to touch only the large part as it melts and then move the flame slightly toward the broken piece so the braze will flow over to it. Using this technique, continue until you get braze deposited the length of the crack. Next turn the entire pulley over so the opposite side is facing up and work the pulley into the sand so that sand fills up the entire belt groove, leaving only the unbrazed face exposed. Work it with the torch exactly like was done for the other side. The sand provides just enough support to keep everything in place until the brazing bond is established and also keeps the small piece from suffering from runaway high heating by giving it just the right heat sink action.

[@htral]

Moline Parts sells those new - #RE505A pulleys made from 4320

[@RustyInventions-wz6ir]

Very nice work. Tig welding is very interesting to me, I need to learn how to do it.

[@michaelwooda9444]

You have more patience than me! I would have chunked it out in the yard!

[@stevenclaeys6252]

Thank you for another Great video. Cheers

[@jimmymcleod5953]

Did you give up on the stoker engine? If so, why?

[@bobearl7859]

Why didn't you just make a new pulley out of steel

[@chriscmoor]

Keith don't need no steenkin' die. He's got a single point thread cutter.

[@hemanthharrilall6469]

Well done. Thanks for the video as usual

[@crazor01]

Thanks for being a good sport and showing us your failed attempts too! Sometimes I forget that KZbin is often just showing the successes. I love it when people like you or Tom Lipton just don't even try to hide Bozo visits.

[@garybrenner6236]

This guy IS Bozo, the only reason I watch him is for laughs, if you want to see a "real" machinist/ welder try Cutting Edge Engineering, you will see the difference!

[@ellieprice363]

I’m glad you showed all the mishaps. Repairs of this type are never easy. When the first attempts didn’t work you tried others until it did work. I wonder if silver solder would have worked with cast iron?

[@randallcarpenter5313]

Back in the 70s my buddies and I would do some fishing in the Otter Tail River just east of Breck.

[@jameswood9764]

Take dimensions and make a new one from steel???

[@tommooe4524]

Looks like a gold crown on a tooth….good job

[@rogerschmidt2116]

Wow. You are not very good at this.

[@mickeyfilmer5551]

Kieth, your flame is not neutral- it is carborising, secondly you should preheat the bulk of cast iron first,- you could have bronze welded it if you had pre heated the bulk, then fluxed with sifbronze , and then added the small piece with the mole grips, then used Bronze rods not brass - you are confusing brazing(using brass) with Bronze fpr bronze welding- a completely different process.

[@mickeyfilmer5551]

I suspect that repair will fail fairly soon - sorry!

[@johnpope4464]

Recasting would be good to

[@sportsmancraft1]

I thought you were going to machine up a new one!

[@DavidSellars-b8l]

If I can make some suggestions gleaned from much better welders than I ever was. I have seen a pulley like that where a MIG welder was used to tack the piece in place. You can't MIG weld it but you can tack it enough to hold it during brazing. Second, I think you try to put too much braze in one place too fast. Try running beads and building it up like you would a multi-pass weld. My old man said an inspector wanted to see a bead with 80 ripples per inch. That was always beyond my ability.

[@1978garfield]

You can use silicone bronze wire in a MIG machine. That way you are brazing not welding.

[@charlesmiles9115]

😛😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@premierd8988]

why was your centre not running Keith?

[@mapstardamo1624]

I was wondering that too?

[@kenbetthauser4226]

Thanks for putting this all together Keith so we can follow along.

[@pacificcoastpiper3949]

Would Babbitt rite or something like that be of use in damming things so your metal goes where you want?

[@williamdavis7094]

One way to get it done

[@filepz629]

❤️‍🔥

[@mr.b2232]

👍😎

[@amateurshooter6054]

Thanks Keith

[@ronburns268]

Keeping the old iron in the fields!!!

[@krisnewman3202]

Having been a factory rep for Stoody Company, my preference would have been nickel spray powder for the build up or repair weld of the small piece for cast iron. Victor Co. was a sister company and manufactured spray torch kits for us, we produced the 400 mesh spherical powders.

[@bryanebel8448]

Best advice I ever got about TIG brazing cast iron = Set to AC and [bronze braze] weld as though you are set to DC neg with a plain steel filler. Tack the outside corners to hold the part and fill away. Minimizes heat in the part and cleans as you go.

[@bigun447]

TIG. Just nothing but an electric fire that replaces real fire emitting from the end of a gas torch. The only way you could have done it better is to have built the braze material up and then manually filed it back into shape. Old fashioned torch welding steel replaced hammer welding, then torch welding became the new way. Then that gave way to electric arc welding of steel but bronze welding with a gas torch remained the way for cast iron and small steel pieces. Now TIG welding is "you have to get modern" mode (also due to the cost of acetylene gas) that makes welders think gas welding is old fashioned and if you are not TIG welding you are an old codger. We had to learn gas welding by welding pieces of old pot metal car grills together. Just enough heat to melt a piece of pot metal filler into the joint you were trying to weld but just a very few degrees of heat higher it was POOF the pot metal you were trying to join would fall away.

[@robertlevine2152]

Keith, Hindsight is 20/20 and as always I've got plenty. Let's start with an appropriate size plate, say 8"×8"×3/8". Weld an appropriate size piece of all-thread in the center as a hold-down. You could use a couple of stop-nuts to raise the pully for ventilation. Next, set the broken piece in place. You could tack it in place and fine-tune it with a hammer or clamp. Also, you might try heating the whole pulley. Theheating pulley itself is acting like a heat sink. Out of curiosity is that a metric or JIS pulley? Bob