Monster Cane Mill Restoration: Brazing Broken Nickel Welds on the Main Cast Iron Mill Base

Рет қаралды 39,609

Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 216

@ExCinereForge Ай бұрын

A wire wheel and shorts?! You’re a bold man, Mr. Rucker. Love the channel!

@I_Am_Your_Problem Ай бұрын

The repair that works is the right repair.

@jeffwillis2592 Ай бұрын

I'd like eventually to see a big antique cane press in operation.

@richardreis6248 Ай бұрын

A more precise explanation on the reason for cracking when using nickel alloy to fusion weld cast iron vs brazing cast iron is; the nickel shrinks and causes high stress in the weld and in the cast iron. This can be successful but it takes several steps including, controlling inter-pass temperature by using short passes and peening the welds. Peening will reduce stress in the weld and base material. The high heat input of the brazing, the ductility of the brass and the slow cooling reduces the residual stress in your parts. Thanks for taking the time to create the high quality videos.

@kevinhornbuckle Ай бұрын

makes sense

@SettledBatches Ай бұрын

Had a Mg race-car transaxle case welded years ago and the pre-heat and post heat procedures were critical to its success. It was; raced it for 3 more seasons with no problems at all.

@stevedaggett8594 Ай бұрын

I had an old oil field welder fix a crack in my boat engine heat exchanger years ago. He buried the cast iron part in a steel box full of sand, and then heated it close to red hot. Then he brushed off the hot sand, and welded the crack with a nickel rod. When the weld was finished, he covered it back with sand and heated the box up again. I picked up the repaired part a week later, after a slooow cool down. The leak had been repaired and I never had any problem with it.

@harveyblough7204 Ай бұрын

@@stevedaggett8594 right the sand Controls the cool down. To relieve more stress in it my grandfather use to do this to engine blocks Just make sure you use something like quartz.Sand because quartz send has a habit. It tries to keep the same temperature throughout as it cools down. He made a box that he could put a fire under and when it would get good and hot he would start then put hot sand on it then the top and then wait for it to cool

@d3faulted2 Ай бұрын

I knew of an old timer that used to weld up large cast iron pieces. He'd basically start a fire, put the casting in it to heat the whole thing hot as hell. Fish it out and then do the welding on it.

@Paul-FrancisB Ай бұрын

Seems like a great answer to all the "why don't you weld it?" comments that appear on every brazing video 🙂

@aserta Ай бұрын

Not everyone has a clue what exactly putting two pieces of metal together forever (again) means. That includes professional welders in some cases. I mean, some people are just utterly clueless to what brazing is, and more importantly, what its properties are - as a process.

@Hoaxer51 Ай бұрын

@@aserta, I wonder if that steel frame is part of the repair to the casting, it must’ve taken a heck of a hit to break that big of a casting. Could it be they made that frame to protect it from something like that happening again? I’m just curious to how it broke to start with.

@Auqalungangler Ай бұрын

There is now very VERY good modern cast welding alternatives to brazing them welds are donkeys year's old no real surprise they cracked

@boelensds Ай бұрын

stich it. no weld or heat needed. just drill and air hammer and some inserts.

@jimrankin2583 Ай бұрын

@@boelensdsstitching does not work when the crack is all the way across a piece or all the way to one edge. Stitching only works because it jacks the crack open slightly as you screw in the plugs. It doesn’t create any tensile strength.

@Idontwanttosignupist Ай бұрын

One consideration should be made - When you have a casting solidly bolted to a weldment the mounting points can be severely stressed due to small dimensional variations of the two parts. I saw this working for a company that makes rock crushers. You can either make the two surfaces perfectly flat or put something in between to take up the variation. Their solution was to make plywood spacers between the casting weldment.

@Tishers Ай бұрын

Where I worked before we would pour molten lead between the casting and the weldment (frame). Mostly with 1500 HP pumps and motors where they were mounted to a common frame. The motors were steel framed and bolted to steel so that wasn't a problem. The pumps were cast iron bodies and there were irregularities when bolting to the steel standoffs.

@petert3355 Ай бұрын

@@Tishers Where I worked we used 1/4 inch lead sheet between the casting and frame. The solid lead is soft enough that it deforms just right when the bolts were getting torqued down. Same solution as you guys, just a little easier implementation.

@truckguy6666 Ай бұрын

Would look sweet with some nice planks of white oak, or maybe some high end exotic hardwood in between that frame and the casting.

@petert3355 Ай бұрын

@@truckguy6666 Wood would work well, but you'd want a true hardwood over a softwood. Aussie Ironbark over Pine for example.

@SuperJaXXas Ай бұрын

Keith Rucker, raising cane!👍

@donaldrhyne9417 Ай бұрын

I was at Henry Ford Village yesterday and was at the train roundhouse, I brought up your name to a couple of the “ docents “. They are aware of your channel since I was around the third or fourth person to bring your name up in the past two days. Have you been there? You should do a show from there.

@robertlevine2152 Ай бұрын

Keith, Based on years of repairs of fatigue cracking on ships, primarily on ships, I have a few suggestions. First, instead of relying solely on visual inspect, add some sort of NDT. I would go with a dye penetrant test to assure you have found the end. Second try using strip heaters to pre- and post-heat repairs, instead of using a rosebud. You will have better control of the temperatures. We used strip heaters when welding large castings to steel structures or welding boiler tubes into headers.

@tomscott4723 Ай бұрын

Hats off to you, that is a heck of a brazing job on such a large casting. Anyone who has done much of this can really appreciate your work :) Thanks!

@alandaters8547 Ай бұрын

I like how you add the reasoning behind your choice of brazing over welding for cast iron. That sure is a big cane mill!

@ForrestTessen Ай бұрын

Keith, excellent job on the repair of the casting! Brazing such a large piece of cast iron is no small feat, especially without the advantage of a large oven to preheat the entire piece and relieve the stress in the metal. The precision and skill you demonstrated made it look effortless, as you always do. I continue to be impressed by your expertise. I hope you're taking some well-deserved time to enjoy your retirement-though with your talents, I imagine it's hard to fully step away from work!

@billlippincott3937 Ай бұрын

Outside of the actual work you do, I really enjoy your insights and explanations of the work you do.!

@garybrenner6236 Ай бұрын

This guy should be arrested for the "work" he dose!

@jwaterous224 Ай бұрын

I want to see this thing make some cane squeeze! I can just imagine the glee of those present when it’s set up in the field and it begins to make the squeeze happen!

@claybadham1391 Ай бұрын

Such skill to take the mess before and end up with something that you can barely see is there. Bravo🤯

@frankely6378 Ай бұрын

Keith, you're not the only one that doesn't like vertical or even overhead welding. Years ago I heard a story about a certified welder working in a railroad tank car repair shop. One day the boss (who knew of this guy's aversion to overhead work and more or less to force the issue) asked him to fix the bottom of a particular car. Undaunted (and while the boss wasn't looking), the welder grabbed a couple of overhead cranes, picked up the entire rail car and rolled it over to weld it up. All the boss could do was shake his head.

@repete2362 Ай бұрын

that is one massive casting .imagining the force that it took to break it WOW

@1ergnas1 Ай бұрын

Looks like it was dropped and there is a piece missing from the base on one side. This will probably make alignment difficult, but pouring new babbits should help with the alignment.

@jenniferwhitewolf3784 Ай бұрын

I know this is already done, but the best alloy I have ever encountered being in and around the car restoration world for over half a century is Allstate Number 11. It wets to cast iron exceptionally well, even drawing into capillary tiny gaps.. and bonds like crazy. I have repaired all sorts of cast iron parts including engine blocks and even suspension parts. NEVER had a joint fail, or iron crack next to it as is common with nickel welding. Please PLEASE look into Allstate Number 11. It will be your new iron assistant.

@Hoaxer51 Ай бұрын

Is that a welding rod? I tried googling it and will probably get all kinds of inquiries about my insurance needs now, I wasn’t sure if that was a brazing rod or a welding rod.

@jimbarchuk Ай бұрын

@@Hoaxer51 "rod""alloy" "Allstate" Number 11

@carlhitchon1009 Ай бұрын

That stuff is $450/lb (10 rods)!

@Hoaxer51 Ай бұрын

@@carlhitchon1009, It must be heavy with the silver content.

@Hoaxer51 Ай бұрын

@@jimbarchuk, Thanks, that worked, I’ll remember that one.

@piperjohn_3 Ай бұрын

Very cool that Goldens' Foundry and Machine Co. is still a going concern and run by descendants of the founders.

@dtoad48 Ай бұрын

I like you can read the word NEW now and before you couldn't.. well done.

@floridaflywheelersantiquee7578 Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing Keith

@bryansmant870 Ай бұрын

Nicely done Keith. Looking forward to catching up next week at Arnfest.

@oldfister7460 Ай бұрын

Many thanks Keith I appreciate your time making the videos,

@firemarshalljack1115 Ай бұрын

Nice work, I wondered about that big crack during the first episode.

@pcka12 Ай бұрын

I have successfully nickel alloy welded a cast iron 'needle' on a hay baler, this is a very high stress component but is solid & narrow unlike many broken cast iron webs.

@brycegisselbeck6548 Ай бұрын

Hay baler needles are cast steel 7018 or 70-6 will work

@pcka12 Ай бұрын

@@brycegisselbeck6548 well I was assured by the agent (who had an impossibly long delivery time) that it was cast iron "& you will never weld that" so not having an alternative I took him at his word and welded it as cast iron (could have been spherioidal CI) and the process worked just as other CI welds have worked for me.

@elmarqo_3448 Ай бұрын

The vertical crack and weld went right through the lettering. Your work made that look good again.

@danielelliott3659 29 күн бұрын

Dad was a welder and he brazed things alot . He taught me how when i was about 12. Im 61 now and have been a heavy duty mechanical for over 30 years and i still braze things alot. Ya just have to know when it will work.

@thefirstcalled Ай бұрын

You are so very welcome!!! Thank you for sharing!!!

@TomokosEnterprize Ай бұрын

A wise old man said "It Takes old to repair old". In this instance I totally agree.

@butter262 Ай бұрын

Good evening

@srgraham9172 Ай бұрын

How deep did you groove the cast iron/nickel weld? Just curious. Daughter finished her welding program in May, and I talked with her and her instructors about welding and brazing. Brazing is going to be a lost art form without videos like this. I’m in the camp that usage of each connection type should be dependent on the application AND the abilities of the individuals(s) doing the repair. Having the ability to understand and go forward with a proper repair is essential. Long story short, she’s watched a few of Keith’s videos on brazing to help herself understand better. Thanks for putting content like this out there.

@ukrspp21 Ай бұрын

Looks lots better. I had a couple of questions, it looks like there is another repair under the “w” is there a reason that you didn’t tackle at the same time? Also on the other side it looks like the casting is missing from its accident. If the plan to repair that. Looks like a hell of a lot of work, and not sure if needed. Either way looking so much better!

@garybrenner6236 Ай бұрын

As others have said, thanks for sharing, lots of laughs!

@stumccabe Ай бұрын

Thanks Keith.

@rogertaylor1589 Ай бұрын

For what little vertical brazing i have done, angling the flame uphill will support the puddle and lesson the drooping filler alloy. nice job.

@melshea2519 Ай бұрын

Happy Friday Keith! 😊

@truckguy6666 Ай бұрын

Man thats a ton of work and it turned out GREAT. All these people talking about starting big fires, strip heaters, etc. I wonder if you could get some big propane burners and mount them under the casting for a couple hours and heat it up. Would be a great job for a cold day in the shop!

@TheTacktishion Ай бұрын

nice brazing...!

@derbyshirebirdwatcher6054 Ай бұрын

The base casting appears to have a big chunk missing near to the bearings. Any thoughts on strengthening that side?

@paulputnam2305 Ай бұрын

Awesomeness Extreme

@CHICOB4261 Ай бұрын

Love the video content Keith!

@wrstew1272 Ай бұрын

When you were about halfway up I thought about how I would braise at every opportunity because it was enjoyable to do the job with almost artistic precision. But I Never thought about using a rosebud😮. But I concur that it takes heat consistency to make bronze work, and once you understand how to make it flow it is a great way to repair or join metal. And the grinder you are going to level up the repair makes the job almost invisible……but the chance of it holding is far greater than welding- from my experience.

@briand01 Ай бұрын

Nice Job Keith

@GWBoen Ай бұрын

Great video, as always, Keith

@brucesoderstrom5303 Ай бұрын

For the algorithm.... Good stuff....

@paulatkinson2849 Ай бұрын

Nice job Keith looks good 👍

@robertharker Ай бұрын

Great brazing!

@RonCarlson-fp7jl Ай бұрын

Great repair on the cracks but there appears to be an entire section that has been broken off on the opposite side of where you 1st started. Is there a plan to retore that portion of the unit? How would that be accomplished?

@thomasd8859 Ай бұрын

Nice job. Looks like a part of the material is missing where that opening is on the side.

@BenHancock-uj7uq Ай бұрын

Since you have a gantry crane, why not roll that base up on it's side so that you are brazing on a more horizontal surface?

@glenndennis6801 Ай бұрын

The weight of it could cause distortion and/or misalignment in the crack or cause other cracks. Better not to risk it when working on large pieces.

@jimfiles3307 Ай бұрын

You could bolt the frame to a fixture and then rotate it.

@tsmartin Ай бұрын

@@glenndennis6801 Some steel bracing welded to the "I" beams would keep things in alignment. And since you are only doing one side at a time it's not going to move around a lot. If you noticed .... and Kieth mention ... when it first repaired the pieces weren't put back together in alignment before it was welded anyway.

@jsr2216 Ай бұрын

The repair looks a million times better than what was there. Excellent work!

@bubblebody117 Ай бұрын

Very nice repair

@johnfriend240 Ай бұрын

Any thought on replacing the missing part of the casting between the journals on the far side? Or will the base structure keep everything in place?

@richardtaylor7199 Ай бұрын

Great job.

@frankerceg4349 Ай бұрын

Thank you Keith!

@barney2633 Ай бұрын

Good job !

@george-b3i-d2d Ай бұрын

looks good!!!!

@MarkAllen-p6z Ай бұрын

Very interesting!

@MP-pv1th Ай бұрын

Great video as usual. Thanks for sharing!

@mattkabful Ай бұрын

I agree with many of the comments below, Great Job, it looks fantastic!

@lynnplestid2711 Ай бұрын

Thanks for your videos, 👍🇨🇦

@elsdp-4560 Ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing.👍

@jamesmoe9188 Ай бұрын

Always love me some brazing.

@ddblairco Ай бұрын

nice, thank you

@jonfranklin4583 Ай бұрын

I'm not sure if you are worried about the gaps between the frame and casting, but if you are, one product that you might consider to take up those void spaces is called Chock Fast Orange, an epoxy resin bedding compound that is used mainly for heavy machinery that you don't want point loading on like shims give you. It is an easy process that requires a dam be put in place around where you need the bedding, mix the materiel and pour it in. It sets up with virtually no shrinkage and if you put a release agent on the bolts and mounting surface of equipment you can re-install if it needs to be removed for servicing. In this case I don't imagine that to be the case so you could just pour it and forget about it. I have used this process in propellor shafting on large fishing vessels and have had great success with it. As usual, another great video.

@alangordon1677 Ай бұрын

It looks like a large piece of the casting is actually missing from the second side you braised.

@fredmoult583 Ай бұрын

Noticed the same. Although it’s bolted to the base either side of the missing/broken casting, can’t help but think that the outboard casting would have movement under load and probably crack. Even a plate bolted across the span would help. Nice braze repair job though. Have an old 4” vice that was brazed 60 years ago and is still going strong

@Hoaxer51 Ай бұрын

@@fredmoult583, I wondered if the base frame was part of the repair to the casting, must have taken a big hit to break that thing.

@alangordon1677 Ай бұрын

@@Hoaxer51 I think you're right. Whatever trauma that base suffered to have ripped that side out must have been epic.

@boelwerkr Ай бұрын

If you nickle weld something you want the cast iron really hot. The hotter the better. And the let it cool very slowly. This will help with the brittle connection area. I welded cast iron ovens this way and they are still good.

@I_Am_Your_Problem Ай бұрын

Love the nickle rod excuses.

@ljackson8220 Ай бұрын

looking good

@airwalwer Ай бұрын

Great Job! Will you be repairing the missing pieces on the back side?

@mattomon1045 Ай бұрын

great repair

@dhaynes4515 Ай бұрын

Hi Keith, the view at 11 minutes looks the casting has a complete missing side? Should that be repaired? Thanks, from a long time viewer. Hope you are enjoying your retirement. Dee

@steverollinson6906 Ай бұрын

Nice!

@mikepayne8756 Ай бұрын

Have you ever tried 8016Q1 welding rod? I have used it on Cat transmission cases. Also worked well welding cast iron feet on compactor wheels.

@billdoodson4232 Ай бұрын

I had to drill holes to prevent cracks spreading when I was still working as an Engineer at sea. We were always told that the hole diameter should be at least 10% the length of the crack. So a 150mm crack needed at least a 15mm dia hole. Any smaller and the crack could run around the hole.

@oldtugs Ай бұрын

Wow, talk about sea stories! It sounds like something an old guy would tell a cadet just to see how gullible he is. Crack stop holes are drilled no larger than about 1/8 inch or a couple of millimeters. Crack stop drilling is very common on aircraft, just imagine a 3/4 inch hole drilled in a windshield or skin panel to stop a 6 inch crack! That hole alone would require a major repair job.

@ellieprice363 Ай бұрын

@@oldtugsTen percent of six inches is .600, not .750.

@Hoaxer51 Ай бұрын

@@ellieprice363, I like to read Keith’s comment section because there’s a lot to learn in some of the comments, Keith always has a couple of them that seem to just look for problems but for the most part they’re pretty good. I’ve seen a few where you give your opinion and I wonder what you think of billdoodson4232’s 10% rule. You correct a commenter on the size of hole, the .600 not being 3/4 of an inch, it’s under 5/8 and over 1/2” so close to 9/16” hole. That’s a pretty good size hole to stop a crack and the crack in that sideways crack looks like it’s around 10 inches so that would mean a one inch hole to stop a crack. Seems excessive to me, what’s your take on that?

@billdoodson4232 Ай бұрын

@@oldtugs Ships are built a little different to airplanes. A Marine Architect who designed an airplane, would be designing a very strange shape of anchor.

@oldtugs Ай бұрын

@@billdoodson4232 As a MEBA retired unlimited chief engineer of steam, motor, gas turbine, if I ever drilled a 15mm crack stop hole like you described I would have lost my license. I mentioned aircraft because drilling crack stop holes on ships is a rare event but is very very common on aircraft.

@LouJustlou Ай бұрын

You should consider doing a brazing or welding work shop. I'd pay to attend one of those! 😊

@garybrenner6236 Ай бұрын

If you would pay to see this guy weld or braze, he's even worse at that than machining! If you truly want to watch a top notch welder at least go to Cutting Edge Engineering, and if you don't see a difference you know nothing about welding!

@kevinwayne7546 Ай бұрын

cool

@1howtoplace Ай бұрын

What about the broken out missing part in the back?

@someguy2741 Ай бұрын

Back during metallurgy class the concept we learned was applicable to high carbon steel but it applies to cast iron which has a lot more carbon. When the metal melts the carbon redistribute and ends up migrating towards the interface between the cold and hot material. You end up with a line of VERY high carbon which is very brittle. You probably end up improving the material properties of the cast nearest the weld but pay a short distance away. If you can keep object hot or annual it you can get that carbon to redistribute but on large castings its impossible. In this case the transition from "hot" to "cold" was probably a very thin line since the casting is such a large heat sink. So you would see a very narrow carbon rich band AND have a lot of thermal expansion and later contraction. The crack might have happenned immediately.

@tropifiori Ай бұрын

I wonder what happened to break such a thick casting?

@gpanizzolo6090 Ай бұрын

Excelente trabajo! Un abismo realmente entre lo que estaba y lo que quedó. Me pregunto porqué se partió donde se partió la estructura. Era un tema de como estaba apoyado? Gracias desde ya por tu respuesta, de ser posible. Un abrazo. Germán, Lomas de Solymar, Uruguay.

@philipreich7035 Ай бұрын

Are you going to make a plate to rejoin the two sections of the casting where it looks like a whole section broke out and is completely missing? Will that be necessary in order to keep the alignment true on the gears? It looks like it would work to just grind down the rough edges to allow a steel plate to be bolted in place to take the place of the missing part of the casting. Cheers from Oregon, Philip

@aserta Ай бұрын

This is one of those repairs (referring to the original repair) where the better thing to do would've been to just let it be and let the broken bits sit on that frame. They did a decent-ish job of it, but man... it's clear that the person who did it didn't know enough. I've seen castings of this size and bigger repaired, properly and the effort involved is tremendous to do it right. You basically make a hole in the ground, build a massive coal fire, you make sure the broken parts are affixed together beyond any shadow of a doubt by any means necessary and only when it's at the right temperature, do you effect repairs. This was clearly not brought up to temp and not secured right. Source: large church bell repair (40ish cm diameter). It involved a crew of seven people, and the master, who was 76 years old at the time. The guy was sitting on a coal fire while brazing it up, just a sheet of fiberglass wool between him and the actual fire proper. And that wasn't even the biggest thing he was repairing at the time in his shop, he had 5 different fires going on, the heat in that yard was so hot i felt like i was melting alive. It's a lot of work to get it right. Takes dedication and experience to even attempt something this big.

@garybrenner6236 Ай бұрын

In case you have not noticed this guy is a butcher, just sit back and have some laughes!

@5x535 Ай бұрын

That was quite the brazing job. I'm wondering how long the brazing took and how much gas you used. Wow! It came out beautifully.

@tomjewett5839 Ай бұрын

Just wondering, it's obvious they put the I beams under the casting because of the damage for support. I'm just wondering if there's anything tying those two together Underneath the casting at the bottom of the I beams to keep them from twisting and causing more damage to the casting?

@stancloyd Ай бұрын

Keith. You have enough lifting devices to do the vertical weld in position as horizontal.

@bradcallaghan8099 Ай бұрын

I know you have a tractor with forks. Seems like it would have been a good idea to lift and full tilt to make the brazing process easier to prevent braze running and you could have been standing up. Other than that what an excellent job you did!

@aserta Ай бұрын

Awesome fixup of the new cracks and the cosmetic hide-up. Also, right call to use the bigger tip. Lots of heat is needed!

@lloyd4768 Ай бұрын

That's going to be a lot of Babbitt I can't wait to see how that goes.

@trainman2860 Ай бұрын

You could always use your crane to lift the casting to make the weld area flat. Support on blocking.

@RaymondSwanson-u9y Ай бұрын

Vintage Machinery, where the bronze age meets the iron age in the digital age.

@davidc6510 Ай бұрын

Another great installment on the Monster Cane Mill restoration. A quality job on repairing those cracks. I also saw that you did a really nice job making the N more prominent on face of the casting. Thanks for sharing!

@garybrenner6236 Ай бұрын

I wonder when the next installment of the Stoker Engine is coming.