Waterloo & City Line (1) - Class 487 (built in 1940)

The Waterloo & City Line trains which were introduced by the Southern Railway in 1940.
Here they are (mostly) seen in Network SouthEast livery, although there is a still image at the end showing a train at Waterloo in BR Blue.
We also see the surrounding station areas at Bank and Waterloo and a DM after it had been withdrawn outside the National Railway Museum at York.
The Trav-o-lator tunnel at Bank is a mess. For a station in the wealthiest district of one of the planet's wealthiest nations this was a disgrace. Apparently the City Corporation (local govt. for the area) wanted to invest in the station and make it look respectable, but not only did Mrs Thatcher's govt. forbid this but they threatened the City Corporation that if it tried making this information / dispute public then it (Mrs Thatcher's govt.) would have taken revenge, with one of its actions being to increase taxation on the vast profits made by the many the financial institutions.
(Information sourced from a private meeting I attended in the 1980's where a former Lord Mayor was guest of honour).
This was filmed in December 1989, during the period between Xmas and the New Year when fewer than normal people go to work.
This was my first ever filming session with my then brand new s-VHS-C camcorder.
More information on these trains can be found here
en.wikipedia.or...

[@Thomas828]

I first travelled on this line in 1987, just before the Docklands Light Railway opened, and I was struck by how antiquated the trains were in contrast to the stations at either end. It was like stepping back into the 1940s. Of course, that's when those trains were built. The trains on the DLR could hardly be more different!

[@Thomas828]

Correction: not 1940s but 1930s. These are 1938 stock trains.

[@wharris302]

+Cormac Moore these trains where built in 1940

[@Thomas828]

Ah, then I was right the first time.

[@Electragraph]

One of the spookier trains that I’ve seen.

[@S.T.wie_218]

The spookiest one I’ve seen

[@louiejonesponation]

Nah, the 1992 Tube Stock sounds creepier.

[@kyerenne]

I used to drive these trains and I miss those beautiful trains.. Many good memories from the rathole like we called it.

[@HeyLaserLips]

I remember going on those old trains a few times when I was a kid, but they were on a different line to Waterloo & City. I've never actually seen those trains in the Network South East colours before... Kinda garish... :-P I remember how damn hot those carriages could get if a train stopped in a tunnel because they had the normal light bulbs in them as apposed to the strobe lights. :-P

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

this from 'wikipedia' may also be of interest... The inconvenience to passengers of interior lights being momentarily extinguished as the train passes over conductor rail gaps was partially eliminated in this stock by feeding half the car lights from the motor car at one end of the unit, and half from the other.

[@racingfan2k10]

im only 14 but i love watching these videos, i admire the way tht trains and train stations were back then! may sound a bit weird here but i love the font tht they used 4 the signs on the underground!

[@carnivorousvegan69]

Are u 27 now?

[@1973ts]

This is a superb video. I love it from 3:55 as the doors close and the compressor cuts in. Well done for capturing the atmosphere of the W&C in the '80s. Thank you for posting it here.

[@oludotunjohnshowemimo434]

Presently, it only operates Monday to Friday (normal working hours), closed weekends and public holidays. It provides a quick and convenient link between Waterloo and Bank/Monument for City workers, easing both the Charing Cross and Bank/Monument branches of the Northern line together. Also eases both branches of the Northern Line together.

[@jacksugden8190]

Correct

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Thanks. I knew that they were brand new at the time, I was 'waiting' for that quality to become available. btw, I wish someone had filmed your former LNER 3rd rail Tyneside Electric trains of 1937. Simon

[@TrainsByUzair]

I have to say, I absolutely love this video. Great to see the heritage of our Underground. Go London!

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I am not sure. At present I cannot even look at my videos as they were recorded in S-VHS format which has 400 lines of detail (regular VHS is about 250 lines) but my video player no longer works and the video manufacturers no longer make S-VHS machines. The Panasonic DVD- VHS combo which plays 'quasi' S-VHS will lose all the image quality. I'm trying to get a replacement on ebay. Simon

[@gigteevee6118]

Glad this was recorded for posterity 😊

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I agree!

[@biercom]

I miss the sound of that engine! Our old trams in the 80s (from the 60s) sounded like that. 😭

[@beat00t10]

I like the current sounds they’re cool and creepy

[@user-do2rj4sf8j]

Sounds similar to the 321

[@tundetheepic8631]

@@user-do2rj4sf8j more like the 317

[@alocalgamer3464]

This is so cool i never got to see these trains in network south east livery.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

bulb lights - the same used to happen (albeit to a lesser extent) on some London Underground trains which had bulb lights too - and I think on trams & trolleybuses as well. Simon

[@vicsushiaviation001]

I know the Waterloo city line pretty well, since I use it for work, I can see this sis from a long time ago.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

filmed just before they got new trains

[@beardedbaldie2698]

I use this line for work everyday and it’s so weird seeing how dark and dinghy Bank station used to be. The section with the travelator and staircase look totally different today.

[@MervynPartin]

Another great video. I only used this line a couple of times (must have been in the 60s) when the cars were green. I was fascinated by the styling of the trains, with the small windows and the motor cars which could run as single units in off-peak use, although I do not believe that lasted very long. Glad you got a shot of the "Southern Railway" ventilators.

[@oludotunjohnshowemimo434]

The Waterloo and City line has changed a lot for the better since this time. 1992 tube stock now operates on the line but it does its main work on the Central line in 8 car formations. The Waterloo and City line was still owned and part of Network SouthEast in this video at the time. It transferred to LU in 1994.

[@oludotunjohnshowemimo434]

I use the Waterloo and City line occasionally but due to coronavirus, it is presently shut till further notice but my it has changed a lot since these times. Handy and convenient for City workers as it provides a direct link between Waterloo and Bank/Monument. It goes under the Thames next to Blackfriars bridge and then follows the District and Circle lines towards Bank/Monument.

[@billcobbett9259]

I think I travelled on this line when the trains were still Southern green. I remember a very strong smell of insulating tape! maybe that's what held them together...

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I travelled on them when they were plain blue but it was just too dark to film them.

[@Jimwoodward1212]

Did you know. The Class 487 made a brief Appearance in the 1986 Michael Caine Film 'The Whistle Blower' in the Blue Livery as well as an Intercity 125 at Cheltenham Spa too

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

thanks, I did not know this but its good to see the W&C being used in a film, to 'show' a London scene / location

[@Max404s]

One minute into the film we see escalator tunnels with no cladding. I can vagely remember seeing escalator tunnels looking like that when I was a child. Is that what they normally looked like those days, or were they being refurbished? Maybe they had to remove flammable material after the Kings Cross fire? I can remember the old wooden escalators (which were quickly replaced after the fire) very clearly.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

only off-peak - in the rush hours it gets *very* busy! but thats a baaad time to film, as all one sees are the backs of people and not the trains.

[@TestGearJunkie.]

Ah, the good old Drain Train, used it back in 1971/2 when I started work as an apprentice electrician with the LEB as it was then. The main training centre was at Camden Town, but we had block release one week a month to Southwark College in the Cut. Good days.

[@silkyfan]

I remember going on one of these trains when I was a kid on the way to the Lord Mayor's show. It must have been in the late 60's to very early 70's because the trains were still painted green.

[@ClementLeerobloxgamingvideo]

in 1994, Network Southeast has Spitted into dirrerent Compaines but the Waterloo and City Line was lse by LU with 1992 Stock which is used on the Central line.

[@oludotunjohnshowemimo434]

I believe it was big order of 1992 stock, most went to the Central line whilst the remaining few went to the Waterloo and City line

[@jacquesherve925]

Les class 487 étaient de belles voitures !

[@IsaacPotter-cg9xy]

The fact that these trains were 49 years old when this was recorded and they sounded like class 313 s ,class 314s ,class 315s, class 317s, class 318s, class 319s, class 320s, class 321s, class322s, class 325s, class 768s, class 769s, and class 799s is pretty crazy

[@amiausUSA]

The travolator at 0:43, reminds me of the same one in the "De Brouckère" station in Brussels.

[@sockstarnik]

Great stuff > I’ve loved these since I saw one at the LU Museum Acton depot

[@jacksugden8190]

I used to ride them when in service

[@CVR190]

Great video although the escalator at the start of the video looks lonely, almost like LU/Network Southeast/BR didn't put any effort in at that time haha :D

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

These specific trains were built only for the Waterloo and City line. BUT, There were other trains which also had bulb lighting that operated on most of the other underground lines. eg: 1938 stock and the pre-1938 'standard' stock. Simon

[@Techno-Universal]

4:18 It’s quite funny of how the lights in the train carriages on the sides turn on and off as the train moves through the tunnels! It’s most likely something to do with the third rail changing sides in the tunnels or a carriage going over a cutoff area where it’s only receiving power from other carriages in the train and not it’s own pickups! :)

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

this happened because of a junction (points / turnout / switch) where there was a gap in the third rail - as a general theme underground electric trains which travel in tunnels do not have a power supply connection between the cars - here in the UK this was made illegal as it would create a safety risk

[@kinkisharyocoasters]

@@CitytransportInfoplus doesn't it still happen on the Piccadilly line, where they blink alternately?

[@Techno-Universal]

@Rich Rich I guess it’s because of older trains still being in service on the Bakerloo line! :)

[@DANEBLUEGNOME]

​ Now, is Railtrack updated work everyday is make more improvements to become fast enough for train service... But is there is a lot of rubbish in the tunnel is can be damage the track cause the signal failure. That is the reasons can is happen Railtrack electrical problem!

[@mocyoung]

@halomasterchief14 An escalator where the steps don't actually separate into sections, it's a smooth, level, moving surface. Still exists there today I believe.

[@johnrider5701]

I remember travelling on those trains with my dad back in 1970s I really liked them because they were so unusual,

[@jacksugden8190]

Brings back memories of when I once used The Drain and those old BR stock, the service today under LU was little better with its 1992 tube stock.

[@vikingfortiesfaeroes]

On the Waterloo & City Bank platform walls, you can see the station name in what looks like embossed letters (though they've been painted over now) - I wonder when these date from?

[@Tetramesh]

Thanks for posting this video. I always found this stock quite drab and depressing but the seats were comfortable.

[@MIKEMASTER1A]

WOW New Waterloo & City Line I'll never seen that before! So nice trains!

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

re: 3.50, you are right. I often wondered whether it could form part of an extension to Moorgate to link in with the 'other' deep level tube served by mainline trains (GN route to to Drayton Park, etc). Then with the W&C rebuilt for larger & longer trains it would have ceased to be just a short shuttle. Alas this is now impossible as although not visible from the platform the route is now blocked by an interchange passageway with the DLR station.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

@raakone I dont know about the vehicle lengths... the money and Thatcher thing will be partly because they wanted to privatise, partly b ecause they did not state ownership (did not agree with their political and econonic ideaologies) but also because there was a need to find new ways to raise funds for preparing for an event which is expected to occur later this year (Sept - Oct - Nov). I am refering to the comet, which many say is something more than that.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

@Murderdogs good question but alas I dont know the answer. However, nowadays it would lead to a walkway to the DLR, which is behind there.

[@virginflyer]

Remember travelling on this as a schoolboy during summer holidays, you used to get either a Red Rover or Tube rover travel anywhere all day in 60’s always thought this a “different” train.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I very much doubt that any London Transport rover tickets would have been accepted I thought that the red rover was only for central area red buses (until circa 1970 London Transport also operated many green buses in towns around the edge of London)

[@virginflyer]

@@CitytransportInfoplus It most certainly did in 65 when I was a school boy, You could buy either a tube rover or a bus rover, I lived on the Central Line at East Acton and would spend a lot of my summer hols travelling around the network. You didn't have the technology that you do now for checking tickets but do remember Bus Inspectors making random checks.

[@TestGearJunkie.]

In my day (1960's) there were Red Rovers for red central buses only, Green Rovers for the green country area buses and Twin Rovers, which were central buses and the Underground (not the "Tube" please..!) The Twin Rovers certainly weren't valid on the Waterloo & City.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

@kaiyan246 The train was introduced into service in 1940 - this was filmed in the early 1990's. Simon

[@racingfan2k10]

yea, the Waterloo and City line is just a shuttle between Bank and Waterloo

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

yes. 1940. Almost certainly started being built before before the, and even during the war some new things did open. Just not very much. Simon

[@JoshWhiteJosh]

What's with the manky walls down the escalator?

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

health and safety! (the excuse for everything nowadays). and probably because its easy to make them so bright! Maybe also for some people the extra brightness is ideal to make it easier to read. SImon

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

@werkowiczfilm the trains are from 1940. The film is much newer - I think I filmed this in December 1989.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

sorry, I do not remember! They had to install a 4th rail for electric return, and I feel sure that there would have been a period during which the line was closed whilst the old trains were removed and new ones brought into the tunnel (done one carriage at a time using a crane at - or was it a hoist / lift - Waterloo), plus staff trained, new trains tested, etc. But I've forgotten the exact facts. Simon

[@ManiacalMichael504]

Awesome video, such a shame only 1 car out of the whole stock was preserved. They should've preserved at least 1 full set....

[@lachlanwoodsmith6064]

Maniacal Michael technicly the DM can be run by itself as it has a cab on both ends. They should have got 2 and a trailer

[@leeosborne3793]

And where exactly would you store it, and what would you do with it?

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

The London Transport Museum depot near Acton Town stn has one of the 1940 DM cars. You may find more information on these trains on Wikipedia - try a Google search on the Waterloo & City Line, Wikipedia is usually one of the first links and perhaps by following links etc you will find more info.

[@IC-qf7ev]

6:29 even accounting inflation that is expensive for a basically shuttle line for 2.50(6.36 in today money)

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Yes, that was common. And boarding once the train had started leaving the station.

[@Doomsday2060]

I like how the driver is spoilt for choice when it comes to braking..... ON and OFF and that's about it

[@glenrea]

same here! The motors definitely sound "Southern Region". And that brake pump. Could have been an EPB pulling away..... I've never been on "The Drain". It's always closed when I go to london!

[@jamtart606]

As far as I am aware the one DM left is in the London Transport Museum Depot, it is still there, but is rusting and beginning to rot.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

+Hornbylad200 Indeed so, its there, disused.

[@agent_605]

They've repainted it and are refurbishing it for the 30th anniversary of Network SouthEast

[@jamtart606]

Yes I saw it when I went there during February I think

[@leeosborne3793]

It's now been restored, externally at least, and looks very smart.

[@basictransportenthusiast4386]

its weird seeing a tube train with BREL Motors

[@edepillim]

The escalator is like the descent into hell. Not even any ceiling tiles. If you want a shock have a look on utube at the Kiev metro escalator. The deepest at 105m. I believe at one time the tube trains had asbestos linings for brakes. Think of the toxic dust in those tunnels!. Apparently the biggest dust problem now is human hair!

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I know, seats on older trains were almost always better than those of modern trains. This is terrible shame. Simon

[@tonytyrer9340]

The thing i remember about these trains was that they displayed their heritage through Southern Railway posters and the ventilators at the end of the carriages which had 'Southern Railway moulded into them

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Some of their ventilators showed 'Southern Railway' whilst others had 'Southern Region'. If I recall correctly the driving motors had Railway whilst the trailers had Region. But I might be wrong ...

[@amsiesmodels]

I used to love travelling on those, around 1991 approx

[@harryelliott4310]

Waterloo & City Line 1940 Tube Stock

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Thats a pity, although on this line you will be constantly getting up to walk to the other end of the train - well maybe every 10 or so minutes (ie: the length of time it takes to wait for the departure time and make one journey to the other end). Simon

[@raakone]

I'm curious, at about 3:50, it shows one end of a track....and what looks like was "provisions" for extending the line further if need be, was there ever any intentions to do so? The Thatcher situation sounds ridiculous. Not wanting it even mentioned? It's cool seeing what the old "non-Tube tubestock" looked like (in the strictest sense, it is "tubestock", and it always was a "tube line", even if it wasn't...) It's interesting that BR had a tube line. ~Ra'akone

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

yes, built by the Southern railway these entered service in 1940. The LMS has nothing to do with these trains; I am curious why you thought otherwise. Simon

[@tonywise198]

....and before they were blue, they were green, and still were when I last went down the "drain".

[@jacksugden8190]

Great times when I used them in that blue livery as the Drain under BR.

[@highpath4776]

I rode these stock in about 1982, had only travelled once before on the line in about 1980 when returning from Clapton to Liverpool Street then Central Line (or Walk) to Bank then Waterloo then BR to Wimbledon. This would have been in BR Blue days but the internal ventilator covers at carriage ends had metal grills spelling 'Southern' ? was it a pair Southern Railway (wiki says yes with Southern Region for tralier cars. The travellator tunnel here appears undergoing refurbishment, normally the adverts carried tended to be for one advertiser - often an airline, bank, IT company or a world city or state with themed and/or repeating ads including tunnel decoration. I could not understand why Southern ran these trains rather than 1938 LU stock, I presume the Southern built them at Eastleigh (no, Dick, Kerr works of English Electric at Preston) - and Southern did not get on with London Underground in the early 1930s . I can only suppose that the line was never extended logically to Liverpool Street was to do with obstructions to the tunnel depth from Bank of England etc foundations and the demand for exiting at bank would be greater than the station could cope with.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I remember seeing both Southern Region and Southern Railway on the ventilators. The people who built this line (LSWR) only wanted to serve the City (Financial District) as they assumed that Bank would be where the majority of their passengers were going to. Extensions of this line and even an intermediate station have been discussed from time to time but always decided against - because in the rush hours this line is so busy that the trains would not be able to cope. Indeed, even now the question of whether it would be possible to add an extra car to the trains (to help cope with the crowding) has been discussed. Future extensions are very unlikely as it has been realised that no matter what the works entail they will require the line to be closed for a year or so and that this disruption would be very bad for the City area. With Brexit in mind the desire is to do everything possible to keep as many banks / other places of employment in the Bank area - and easy access for those who work in the area is seen as a vital part of this. So... if ever an extension was thought to be desirable it would come in the shape of a brand new service. One change that is underway is the building of a new street access which is also fully 'accessible'. There are also changes underway to reduce overcrowding on the Northern Line part of this station - this includes building a new station tunnel and platform. (dateline: June 2018)

[@jz8019]

What is the ticking sound at 5:25?

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I think it was electrical equipment on the train

[@vehicleswithjacob]

@@CitytransportInfoplus it's the compressor, which builds up air

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

problems with salt in the air, corroding the trains. This might also explain why the IOW did not take any 1983 stock trains. Simon

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Of course in those days the W&C was part of the Southern Region. And ALL trains had guards. Simon

[@rip_noobynoob]

On the inside they seem so stekechy

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

from what I remember, they were very cramped inside

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Actually you might be, depending on when you tried. The rush hours would be a bad time (too busy) but maybe a quiet Saturday or this time of year - ie: between Xmas and the New Year. Simon

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

btw, the Mrs Thatcher thing does sound far fetched. But I clearly remember asking why the City Corporation was not investing to make Bank a visual delight / a showpiece station -and that is what I was told. Maggie's Govt. forbade local govt. investment, and if the City Corporation tried to get around the rules by seeking public debate & sympathy, so changes would be made that would be (financially) disadvantageous.

[@et420428]

These are really old! Here in Germany they want to put 20 year old trains out of order. I really dont understand this. Class 420 for example. Here in Stuttgart we have trains which are 16-23 years old and they will be scraped soon. That is sad. :-(

[@worldcomicsreview354]

In Blackpool trams from the 1930's are still in fairly regular use. They keep wanting to finally retire and replace them, but obviously they ain't made like they used to be. I imagine they have modernised interiors now (doubtless with far fewer seats, and the few seats are rock-solid plastic blocks with thin carpet on them, because modern Britain), but in the mid-90's when I went still seemed very 30's inside. Some were rebodied in the 1970's, with all the brown vinyl that entails.

[@Dogegaming5469]

7:26 horn is nice i love it

[@kyerenne]

maybe the seats inside the train where good but the drivers seat was terrible. I am an old Waterloo and city driver

[@mocyoung]

@halomasterchief14 To let the poor, hard-up London businessmen travelling between Bank and Waterloo give their poor legs a rest! hehe

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

@jamwithmates123 down I would suggest, since I started at the top and then went on to film at the bottom.

[@Ropponmatsu2]

Ye gods that place feels like a urinal. The trains just compliment it somehow. Just how many people planned a suicide down there?

[@owenchuarbx]

That train looks very fat!

[@forza223bowe5]

Wow they would be 79 years old now

[@bfapple]

Forza223 Bowe Not as old as the Class 483s on Isle of Wight!

[@Keithbarber]

@@bfapple but not that far behind

[@matthewbuick5890]

I once saw a Class 487 car at NRM York in a siding. Could anybody confirm if it's still there or not? Thanks!

[@leeosborne3793]

It's now in the LT Museum Depot at Acton, and has been for some years.

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

it all boils down to money! guards cost money - and our political leaders want to reduce costs. In China the philosophy is different. Simon

[@Murderdogs]

What's that on the right at 3:48? Looks like a blocked up tunnel with a load of junk around it. I didn't notice that when I was on this line, although I've only been on it once and I was in a hurry!

[@jakegtr]

Murderdogs when the line was originally built, there were plans to extend it and link it to mainline trains.

[@Cazkumali]

@citytransportinfo I assuming 1992TS (Class 482s) replaced class 487s

[@louiejonesponation]

It’s better than the 1992 stock I think

[@lopwr1212]

The 482 look like 1992 stock

[@jamtart606]

thats because it is. During the nationalistaion period it had the TOPS Classification of the '482' before TFL came along and changed that.

[@lopwr1212]

@@jamtart606 ok cool

[@bfapple]

They’re literally the same units mate.

[@oludotunjohnshowemimo434]

It was still Central line 1992 stock but with network SouthEast external paint job. The Waterloo and City line later got transferred to London underground in 1994. When the Waterloo and City line got upgraded recently, the 1992 stock got the tfl corporate paint job and interior line colour refurbishment.

[@Keithbarber]

I can tell this is well-dated as of the ticket machines whilst computerised *DO NOT HAVE OYSTER READERS* (and no ticket gates either) Unthinkable now

[@filthiestfish]

​@OGT Rail Videos Even if it had been a part of London Underground, the Oyster system didn't take effect until 2002.

[@bwhugul]

On KZbin videos of the Beijing metro it can be seen that they have still chosen to have guards!! I mean, someone can easily be hired there for the job very cheaply - what's the point in the expense of One Person Operation! However dwell time is much increased

[@youtube_Y0utube]

it has tail lights at both ends

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

on that route things were done differently, I do not know what the rulebook says but maybe with this being such a short shuttle service management turned a blind eye

[@ianbillericay]

They never had headlights

[@DANEBLUEGNOME]

Very poor light is... Looks like old fashion lamp of red or oldest light see running up to the railway it is. That very old train, isn't. Hey, there is still have a museum depot in South West London.

[@kaiyan246]

1:05 very long escolator and is that in 1940?

[@infrared567]

is W&C ATO controlled like the central line?

[@leeosborne3793]

No, still manually driven.

[@thefamilymealgaming]

so weird seeing how different and samey thingns are

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Its the story of life - and beginning of nostalgia

[@kittykat8795]

Wonder what colour they were before the BR blue?

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

I think they were BR green, but am not 100% certain

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

probably they were not very powerful, as for such a short journey where speeds are limited so they only needed to be able to move at modest speeds. Simon

[@user-do2rj4sf8j]

Why do these sound like the class 321

[@HSTHoward]

wow nse tube stock!

[@linhluan.tran.9]

Is this old

[@CitytransportInfoplus]

Filmed in the early 1990's. The trains date from 1940.

[@davidwonderland6584]

Is very noisy escalators machine see these! See 0:50sec.