Ways Flight Schools Try To Take Your MONEY!

In this video we go over a few of the ways that flight schools try to take your money. Don't get us wrong, there are a lot of great flight schools out there, but there are some that use tactics to cheat you out of your money.... and maybe out of becoming a pilot.
Disclaimer on all this though, a lot of these things can be normal for flights schools. If they do it once, it doesn't necessary mean they're trying to take advantage of you. If they do it a bunch, you may want to talk to someone about it. Sometimes it may not even be the flight school. It could be there instructor!
ALSO, make sure to check the comments, we want to make a little knowledge base of things to look out for.
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Timestamps
0:00 Flight schools can cheat you
0:23 Paying upfront
0:40 Underquote costs
1:02 Failing Stage Checks
1:24 Prolonged Solo
1:41 Canceled Flights
2:11 Changing Instructors
2:32 These aren't all bad signs
2:34 Help us help others

[@FlywithJim]

Thank you Editing Carl for the clarification at the end. I could feel my blood pressure rising and was already thinking about what needed to be said. Yes, there are a few bad apples out there, but the things listed in this video are not the norm. At least, not for the purpose of gouging customers. Progress checks, for example, are a valuable part of every excellent flight training program. Most schools would much rather have their clients pass every progress check and get done sooner with no issues. They also understand the importance of overcoming challenges well before the FAA checkride. When done correctly, progress checks will be much more difficult than the FAA checkride. It's much better to repeat one or more progress checks than to have to repeat the checkride. Doing this does not necessarily mean the school is being unfair or trying to gouge their customers.

[@AkagiRedSun]

Problem is some school take advantage and goes beyond necessary to pass the check ride. My school had 3 different stage checks and had pre-stage checks on top of that and those stages are two separate lessons (oral, check ride), in the end I could point out we had 14 extra lesson built in to INSURE student had better % to pass the check ride.

[@flywiththeguys]

Well put Jim! Thank you for sharing that!

[@FELiPES101]

Yeah so I finished up my PPL with 40 hours and my first solo was really really late in my instruction. It wasn't until I heard that someone else in my town solo'd at ~20 hours did I catch on that they were padding the bill because I was flying through their program too quickly for them to make enough money. The tricky part is you really don't know any better because you are just learning and you are trusting these people with your life. Some schools also have internal checkpoints outside of FAA requirements in order to make sure they give their students the best chance at keeping their school's pass % as high as possible.

[@flywiththeguys]

YEa. I wish we all knew better or understood how things operate a bit better. Could put a lot of bad schools out of business real quick.

[@stevejones7574]

I saw some REALLY long delays between startup and takeoff, like 15 min at a tiny airport and not much traffic. Then I remembered that a friend of mine pulled his plane off the schools flightline when they changed his lease from Hobbs time to Tach time, with a minor increase in rate. So, while the plane is parked idling they're collecting $145/hr and paying almost nothing the the plane owner because the tach is barely moving. He said they were also gouging him on maintenance... Certainly not all flight schools are corrupt, but don't be bashful about asking questions and taking your $ elsewhere if you don't like the answers. I would agree that you should use an instructor who's concerned about YOUR flight time, not building his or hers. Their incentives are opposite yours.

[@flywiththeguys]

Thank you for sharing that. Great advice.

[@aubreyburke6829]

And here I am thinking I was the only one with this problem. It seems to be industry standard practice. Rip students off, pad the hours, wasting time, inconsistant instructions, flying in questionable weather, and no one keeping track of your progress. This was my experience at AOA in Long Island NY.

[@flywiththeguys]

Not all schools are like this. There are some really great ones out there.

[@griffonwings5177]

Tooks notes, thank you fot those tips !! I’ll be very aware of them! Cheers 🛫

[@arrowpilotii8397]

II had a flight school that I ended up leaving from multiple reasons, but the icing on the cake was in one day I checked out 3 planes that all had inop issues. I was charged 30 minutes of instructor time on top of it, and wasn’t happy. After leaving that school, I hear a whole host of issues with the school such as maintenance issues, shady owner, etc. Thanks again for your video.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yikes! Thanks for sharing.

[@blackjack6259]

Great tips! Keep up the great work!

[@flywiththeguys]

Will do! THanks for watching.

[@onepropmind]

Great video! I've seen some instructors running really wide patterns trying to increase flight time. 🛩🛩

[@flywiththeguys]

So dumb, Might get in a few extra hours over 100. Not worth my integrity.

[@simonbrown9543]

All good information. My first flight school at North Weald had me do my first five hours with five different instructors on two different aircraft. It was impossible to get any consistency at all.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yea. That's defiantly a problem. I would have been complaining and asking for some credit back of some sort.

[@bhc1892]

Awesome video. If you do a follow-up can you mention instructors giving 15-minute ground sessions after engine start? I'm a CFI and it makes my blood boil when I see that happen. My students do a full run-through of every checklist before we crank. I tell them what each instrument will read, what it means, and what a failure would look like without turning the prop.

[@flywiththeguys]

Some CFIs do that!? Thats terrible. I mean I get it for IR, but for private that a waste of time and money.

[@paratyshow]

👍☑️🏝️ darn you Authur! I'm liking they way Tifany presents a lot ......... look out Carl and Chad she may be after your jobs! Great tips, sad that these things happen.

[@flywiththeguys]

It is sad. =( ANd yes, I love editing tiffany's videos. She's a real nut in-between takes. We usually laugh all the way through recording.

[@paratyshow]

@@flywiththeguys hey leave those parts in! You guys make a great team!

[@Jeffrey-Flys]

Hi “editing Carl” . Love this… changing instructors (due to plane availability ….. er…. Prop-strike) cost me about 1200 airplane dollars. Not a lot in “airplane dollars,” but worth 10 hours of solo rental.. So yeah.

[@flywiththeguys]

I know right! But sometimes changing instructors can be a good thing if yours was terrible....

[@Jeffrey-Flys]

Not terrible. But a prop strike and a timing issue for way less per hour helped

[@antonioblackfox]

Fun outside aviation in Fullerton does price hikes and so do many of the private instructors in LA but not all that being said on a teaching level they are very nice and good at instructing for sure. Also it's because some instructors want more money though the school may charge the same the instructor might go outside of the things used to make extra. I took some classes here and there and I see it alot

[@flywiththeguys]

Thanks for that perspective. I've been considering a similar video on instructors.

[@dutchygirl]

This is why I keep on asking for the same instructor and same tail number. Even in the same year build planes could have quite some differences (gauches vs. glass, lights, levers...). Been to the school twice for some ground topics, but it was really non-flyable (I do my own Wx checks) and got called if I was okay to come anyways. I would advise after a discovery lesson, so before starting lessons, to have a look at their syllabus and have their prices clear.

[@paratyshow]

Wise advise!

[@dutchygirl]

@@paratyshow Thanks! I'm currently and piece by piece writing a blog about everything I found out and experienced over the time from complete zero in aviation to where I'm now. It's in Dutch and will have a lot of tips, and when I'm done I hope to help others with it.

[@flywiththeguys]

Glad to hear your doing that!

[@dutchygirl]

@@flywiththeguys Thanks, and I hope that is for my initial comment and the one just up here about my blog :-) I book my flight lessons 2 weeks ahead and might get a new instructor (if my current one isn't avbl), but they know how I think about it. Every time I call to schedule, they are like 'yeah we know about the plane.' I just like to be sure to get the one with a missing starter warning light LOL

[@jetblastjim]

Changing the aircraft. They all fly differently (especially heli) so switching causes you to miss some maneuvers because your not used to the way the aircraft reacts just yet. Causes you to miss the stay within these limits for the stage checks.

[@flywiththeguys]

I know some flight schools try to make all their aircraft as identical as possible, to help with this. But sometimes flight characteristics are just different from plane to plane.

[@AkagiRedSun]

I was on collegiate part 141 course and found out that they milk the crap out of students on flight portion and make unnecessary classes to extend the training. Now I’m 6 months in and just got my PL since they squeeze out extra 15 lessons out of you and middle of IR. Someone who started almost same time as me on local flight school is in CPL course and he is half way done even on that.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yep. It can happen that way. I wish there was a database of good schools. Maybe I should start one.

[@zoltannemeth8195]

I'm a flight instructor and I feel bad how some schools treat their students/clients/instructors. Just check all available schools and choose wisely. A good flight school doesn't need all the money before starting your lessons.

[@flywiththeguys]

Good advice. Some of the stories in here are actually quite horrifying.

[@JayEP86]

I hate when I seen in some flight school paperwork that they have harsh wording of non refundable funds and they demand for students to put a high amount down. Plus a lot of schools do not make it easy to get funding. Over the years I really see why there is a huge shortage of pilots out here.

[@flywiththeguys]

I'm starting to see it myself. Why put so much time into something just to get crap pay and have to put more time into it, especially with such a demanding schedule. =( Thats my perspective at least. I love recreational flying.

[@RJE30]

Anyone of you guys have any experience with one of the EASA program flight schools down in Florida? I've checked out Fit Aviation (Melbourne) and EFT in Fort Pierce, tomorrow I'm going to check out 2fly down in Merritt Island.

[@JamesKordent]

One of the best schools out of AZ are Leopard Aviation at Scottsdale. From a Gulfstream Pilot

[@flywiththeguys]

I want to visit schools in the area and make a prospects list.

[@BroAnarchy]

So, having said all that, any flight schools you'd recommend? ( Especially outside AZ?)

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. I wish. Sorry I cant be of more help on that. We do have some videos on how to pick one over on the channel page.

[@chrispbacon550]

Year was 2001 Airline Training Academy in Orlando Florida. Pay upfront costs of $75,000 up to and through ATP. I had scheduled multi commercial test and Anyway they filed for bankruptcy one night and all students were left hung out to dry. Some students had just paid the $75,000, started private ground school on Monday, and on Tuesday it was closed…forever. Sorry students and good luck. All were on the hook for ALL that money. Some had more training than others. Hurt and it hurt BAD! Be VERY CAREFUL when paying tens of thousands of dollars upfront. They file bankruptcy for whatever reason and bye bye money.

[@flywiththeguys]

This made my stomach sick. I cant believe that places get away with doing stuff like that.

[@quintoncrockett966]

When I was learning to fly before even stepping foot in a plane I was told it would cost $20,000 to be able to get a private pilot license. I didn’t not go there when I could get it done faster and quicker. Plus cheaper.

[@flywiththeguys]

Good choice. Thats fairly steep for a PPL.

[@survivalhealthandhealingtv5651]

CAN YOU GUYS DO A STEP BY STEP TEACHING ON THE MATH PORTIONS OF GROUND SCHOOL...AND REMEMBER THAT TELLING ABOUT IT WITH A CHART OR DIAGRAM IS NOT THE SAME AS TEACHING IT...AND WHAT ABOUT PRACTICE WORKSHEETS? THANKS GUYS...

[@flywiththeguys]

Hmmm..... Like how to calculate weight and balance, read performance charts, and stuff like that?

[@gorgly123]

Complete your ground school and Pass the written test before starting flight training.

[@flywiththeguys]

This is sound advice.

[@chocolatcolumbo9484]

I’m lucky to have a good friend who is my CFI and a couple private owner rental planes to use. My instructor is very instrumental with our time and genuinely cares about my progress. My path to getting my PPL went very smoothly. Too bad we have sucky people ruining the industry that’s already hard to get into in the first place.

[@flywiththeguys]

Yea. The industry is really starting to get a bad rap, especially as pricing starts to go up.

[@diabzy11]

I ended up practicing landings in about 4 to 5 flight meetings. I didn't think that my landing were that bad.

[@flywiththeguys]

It takes a lot of landings to get them down. I wonder how many I did before I soloed....

[@ronbo422]

I've been going through recurrent training with a local flight center. I was charged for an hour of "ground instruction" when all we did that day was fly for a little over 1 hour. Dual time, I fully expected. The ground instruction hour? Yeah, that DIDN'T happen. Can't seem to get them to credit that back me, although my instructor said he'd get it "taken care of". Problem is...they bill my credit card AFTER I take a lesson and leave (usually the following biz day). I'm about ready to leave. Once I get my BFR, I may start looking for another instructor & school. I don't like being taken advantage of. Should I escalate to the flight center owner? The front office, nor my instructor, seem to be motivated to fix it.

[@flywiththeguys]

Unfortunately, this just falls under poor business practices. I would for sure escalate it if you can, because it sounds like they may lose a customer of it.

[@alanaspurling6469]

Living in a remote and / or rural area, makes it very difficult to find any flight instruction and aircraft to rent. That’s why I purchased my own airplane. When there’s nothing to rent, what are you going to fly? Now finding an instructor is still difficult…

[@flywiththeguys]

I hear you on that one. Sometimes finding good instructors is hard when there's a sea of them too. How are you planes coming along?

[@alanaspurling6469]

@@flywiththeguys, since my last instructor sold his airplane… I’ve not been flying… I decided to take a bit of a break until I either get, or don’t get my medical certificate….

[@jbsack]

Dont ever pay upfront for instruction. You will not save money in the end and you will never get any of it back.

[@flywiththeguys]

It can go that route sometimes. I honestly paid my school up front last year for some training. But I know the school, the owner, and needed to get some money out of my bank account for tax reasons. LOL

[@clearance_delivery]

I like how they put Westwind on blast 😂😂

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. I didn't realize it was the first portion of video when I made the thumbnail. BUT, I did check into westwind years ago and their PPL was 17K.

[@VanceMcKim]

I'm getting ready to start taking lessons and I am in the Phoenix area. Do I have to go through a school to get my license? Can I find a pilot who is certified as an instructor and do everything privately?

[@flywiththeguys]

You can do both. Flight school or Private. It's all up to you! Personal opinion, if you're going the career path a Flight School may be your best bet. Recreational Flyer, go with a private instructor. =) OH and watch this -kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZK4pneabd2Slck

[@liamarnold7251]

You should do a video on the Grumman that we just got.

[@flywiththeguys]

That would be fun. Maybe a high wing vs low. It would be a short video…. Review would be better.

[@gamechakraform7462]

I tried to get my A&P license and they keep changing the difficulty of the test by adding enough questions (non-related) to make you fail. I have failed 3 times and paid 900 dollars. Smh

[@flywiththeguys]

Ouch. They've been doing that with the PPL recently too. I even had 2 extra test questions on my test that they were trying out, didn't count against me though if I got them wrong.

[@bjornmclir5015]

Very good video, but watch out for flight schools that dont cancel flights in legitimate bad weather. I've seen a particular flight school in my area take low hours students up in 40 knot winds and known icing conditions just for the sake of squeezing anothet dollar out of their students.

[@gregeastwood5761]

I agree with this point more than many of the points made in the video. If the wx is not conducive to the point being learned in the lesson, you shouldn’t fly. If you go out for landing practice and the wind is 8kt directly across the runway but you are still struggling with the round out and flare, you shouldn’t fly…pointless.

[@flywiththeguys]

Good point! Knowing when to and not to fly is a big deal. It's so hard when your a student and have no idea.

[@ActiveBodby]

Agree, better make a back ground about the flight school. Real waste of time and money if you dont.

[@flywiththeguys]

Totally agree. We made a whole video on that - kzbin.info/www/bejne/haPYenaVoq2LqMU

[@wess1986]

I’m looking at getting my private pilot certification and wondering what books are better the ASA or Jeppesen? What would you recommend for books to get?

[@flywiththeguys]

One of our oldies but goodies - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKrZenp3n6tlrZo I should have put books and materials in that video. Sometimes schools will make you buy all kinds of crap that you'll only ever reference. That video has a lot of good free resources to check out. If they're not up to date let me know and I'll get them fixed. They change every so often. ASA usually publishes FAA books. Jeppeson publishes a curriculum they've written. Depending on how you're getting your certificate, you may just want to sign up for an online ground school for the written.

[@wess1986]

@@flywiththeguys what only course would you recommend for private pilot. What books are helpful in passing the written test?

[@flywiththeguys]

@@wess1986 flywiththeguys.groundschool.com/ theres a free trail too. Outside that, the free resources in the description of the video I mentioned above are all you should really need.

[@SiLiFaLyO]

Really good video guys. I am a victim of prolonged solo; I was flying with this instructor for more than 35 hours. And I felt ready to solo long time before. But he kept complaining about my touch downs (sometimes you were going to stall, others you needed a hand..). finally he hands me to the “chief” instructor for a stage check for my solo. This new dude is complaining about way more stuff; you’re take off is wrong, you pitch too high when turning.. I gave up on this school, and as you may know it takes time=$ to adjust yo another school/instructor. They literally ruined my plans where I had a parental leave and needed to finish my PPL before going back to work. Is there any way to report them to some office like the BBB?

[@tinasheyadley]

So sorry this happened to you😞 I suggest that you just let it go man and concentrate on the next chapter of your flying life. Reporting won't get you back the $ you lost. All the best!

[@flywiththeguys]

Nothing to report unless they were doing unsafe acts. Poor business practices isn't something the FAA cares much about as long as they have safety and paperwork under control. You can always leave a google review if they have a page.

[@onddu2254]

Thankfully my instructor is my dad's friend so i don't really need to worry about these

[@flywiththeguys]

Good! Finding a instructor with integrity is a great thing.

[@jackodinsen604]

If you want really good instruction, find an experienced instructor who can train you in a club plane, their plane, or your own plane. Yes, you might pay $100/hr or more for that instructor, but you will be a much better pilot than if you go through a flight school whose instructors are mostly time builders.

[@flywiththeguys]

I hate time building instructors. Hard guys to work with.

[@munrys]

I agree Find someone who is flying or better a retired pilot who doesn't need any hours, and is teaching because he love aviation. You will get a better quality training and learn from his vast flying experience.

[@UrPilotNatt]

I am doing a flying club. They get paid by government funding, only thing I have to pay for is extra flight time, but it's not needed. It's nice to know about your flight school or flying club before you join!

[@flywiththeguys]

You should try to learn as much as you can before you join. I encourage everyone to!

[@UrPilotNatt]

@@flywiththeguys My program pays for 2 different flying clubs. So I get 12 free hour instructor flights every year plus ground school in this nice little free package. I do need extra flight time though, so when I am paying for extra flight time, I will look out for these things. Thanks!

[@EXCELLENT_jp]

So which flight school is best?

[@flywiththeguys]

GOOD QUESTION! I have no idea. We made a video to help you pick though. - kzbin.info/www/bejne/haPYenaVoq2LqMU

[@ecossearthur]

Boom! 💥

[@paratyshow]

Again with the home field advantage ......... LOL

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL

[@mianatwood]

I have spent about $25k and barley did my first dual cross country last week. I have about 105 hrs… this is my second instructor…. The flight school doesn’t seem to give a single shiz about the students… the last instructor took advantage of me, I tried to get an experienced instructor but they gave me a rookie instructor so that meant even more hours spent with him trinna figure out how to teach… I’m at 105 hrs and still having a hard time landing…. The instructor told me there is a lady with a 150 hours who hasn’t even soloed yet….. and I have heard some other ridiculous stories about the school as well.

[@traviseggl3794]

Run from that flight school. Run fast. I had less than 10 hrs when I soloed. You should have had your private license already, and a big chunk of your instrument rating out of the way. You should be working on the instrument rating before your commercial.

[@flywiththeguys]

Sounds like a bad school. I would look at other options if possible, or move over to a private instructor. Check out our channel page, we have videos on how to vet flight schools and picking quality instructors.

[@mianatwood]

@@flywiththeguys I actually just left another flight school literally right now, I been been doing some research, a local Facebook group recommended this place a lot.

[@mianatwood]

@@flywiththeguys also just found out, the former school charges me $85 and hour for instructions but they only pay the instructors minimum wage! All the other flight schools around either pay full or 70% at least to the instructors. My flight school people know that the instructors are their to get their hours for the airlines so they are just using them in a sense and that explains why the instructors aren’t that motivated…

[@anthonycooper5897]

What's the name of the flight school. That way I don't get beat out of time and money.

[@amorestperpe]

If you pay with a credit card that has good costumer service you can get your money back if they close lol.

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. I'm sure someone would catch on.

[@Maverick648]

So much of the time flying is spent just going through the motions. You can get nearly the same benefit doing this in your office sitting in the chair. Just close your eyes and mentally go through the processes. It will save you thousands!

[@tailhookmd2546]

Chair flying as a student pilot? Totally disagree. There is absolutely no substitute for being in the air. Chair flying or pretending to fly or whatever you want to call it can be supplemental but no way does it take the place of real flight time.

[@flywiththeguys]

We actually made a video on that over on the channel page. =) kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3jOqZmCnsiJrKs

[@Emmanuel-ml5to]

All you pointed out are 100%. Flight schools of this generation are only after your money they don't care about student. All they care is you bank acct. and come up with ways not to book the student for flight and delay the student and at the end ask for more money.

[@flywiththeguys]

I feel like a lot of them are. There are a few good ones out there with their students best interests on their minds.

[@farfetch7]

Consumer protection acts

[@kaydenkwon5345]

Looks like the cover photo is Westwind hahaha I did all of my training here. Money always comes first at this school.

[@flywiththeguys]

LOL. You're not the first person to tell me that. They're just local, thus the change of the sign. =) BUT, United purchased them and I think is basically shutting down the campus.

[@kaydenkwon5345]

@@flywiththeguys Well, they finally cashed out after sucking every bit out of international students parents wallets. Good for the owners family. Hopefully easy money won't stay around for too long.

[@sagit60]

A T P period!

[@flywiththeguys]

You see a resemblance?

[@airmackeeee6792]

Geez, these dodgy tactics listed in this vid sound like the regular procedures conducted by "National Pilot Academy." They shut down in 2008.

[@flywiththeguys]

Anyone running these tactics should be shut down.

[@airmackeeee6792]

@@flywiththeguys Yeah, they shutdown. They shutdown while simultaneously taking student's money. They knew for months beforehand of there closure, they knowingly continued taking money.

[@Ali-iq4bb]

👏🏽

[@flywiththeguys]

👏🏽

[@topofthegreen]

When they try to sell you on the pilot the pilot shortage, RUN!

[@flywiththeguys]

I mean, its a real thing, but not a reason to throw caution to the wind and buy into an overpriced program!

[@Bullhead_JW]

My only protest in this video is canceling for wind. Absolutely I agree, canceling when the wind is perfectly flyable is not a good thing. BUT, that is highly dependent on the student's and the aircraft's limitations. The way it is phrased here is that canceling for wind should never happen, which is simply not true. If I am trying to teach landings for the first time and focused on radio calls and good pattern flying, the LAST thing I want my student to deal with is direct crosswinds with gusts that are right at or exceed the max demonstrated crosswind. Time and a place. I highly encourage you guys to go back and rephrase that.

[@flywiththeguys]

Sorry if it came across that way. It was more of just the example we used. Could have just as easily said canceling because of clouds, even though they were going to do patter work and the clouds are 4OOO AGL. We're more or less saying watch out for the bait and switch using weather for reasoning. I had a instructor do this to me when I first started. Recognized it and moved on. But you're right, there are bad weather conditions that exist, or that can develop, that a we should certainly listen to our instructors on.

[@aubreyburke6829]

No need to rephrase anything . I see it myself during my commercial training. These guys make money by keeping the hobbs running. Lots of point less flying in questionable weather. The students spend more time fighting the weather than practicing the maneuvers. I can testify to that. This is apparently industry standard practice

[@mg3kiryu1]

How to fly 101: 1) stay away from ATP 2) Do NOT fly at college without getting your private pilot certificate first 3) STAY AWAY FROM ATP 4) flying clubs are your friend 5) STUDY on your own 6) STAY AWAY FROM ATP!!!

[@bellc09]

Who hurt you?

[@mg3kiryu1]

@@bellc09 lol no one just passing on the news from seeing friends go through it lol

[@flywiththeguys]

=)

[@BuddySpike23]

what is ATP?

[@flywiththeguys]

@@BuddySpike23 A flight school.... really good marketing, but a lot of students report sketchy business practices, like the ones discussed.