WC3 - [UD] Happy vs Lyn [ORC] - GRAND FINAL - Warcraft 3 All-Star League Season 1 Monthly 1

📊 Results: liquipedia.net/warcraft/Warcr...
🏆 Warcraft 3 All-Star League Season 1 Monthly 1 • WC3 - [UD] Sheik vs Ic...
Playoffs - Grandfinal
UD] Happy vs Lyn [ORC]
Cast by: Neo
Date: April 1st, 2024
SCHEDULE: www.back2warcraft.com
SUBSCRIBE: bit.ly/SubToBack2Warcraft
LIVE: / back2warcraft
TWITTER: / back2warcraft
IG: / back2warcraft
FB: bit.ly/2EHFIG2
TIKTOK: / back2warcraft
DISCORD SERVER: discord.Back2Warcraft.com
💛 SUPPORT:
MERCH: shop.back2warcraft.com
BECOME A PATRON: / back2warcraft
DONATE: donate.back2warcraft.com
HOLY - Great focus with good conscience!
bit.ly/HolyBack2Warcraft
1️⃣ Get 10% off of every order with Coupon Code "Back2Warcraft10"
2️⃣ Get 5€ off of your first order with Coupon Code "Back2Warcraft5"
#warcraft3 #back2warcraft #Warcraft3All-StarLeague

[@davicpetrovski155]

Happy to see WC3 is still played. Thanks for the matches

[@Fernandez218]

Happy to see wc3 played, also, Happy still playing wc3.

[@MrHuggah]

Happy thats its been the same top players for decades

[@Fernandez218]

@@MrHuggah lol 🤣

[@UltrasTheSk]

The addition of shades worked out extremely well, good adaptation by Happy

[@pauldanielgatchalian7401]

If Lyn watches how Happy plays against orc then he would know that Happy plays shade always. Lyn should buy 1 witch doctor and put sentry in base and expo to kill that pesky shade.

[@sanaebeast4485]

@@pauldanielgatchalian7401 He should have known it as Happy has already played this style to against FLY.

[@lackingempathy]

you guys are so naive thinking that shade is so easy to handle with Orc and that you know better than Lyn@@sanaebeast4485

[@pauldanielgatchalian7401]

@@sanaebeast4485he knows this but does not counter it. Happy's strengths is that he's good using extra vision against orc. It goes to show as well how Happy is ahead versus other players skill-wise.

[@TodorStamatov]

@@pauldanielgatchalian7401 he is ahead in everything.

[@AMHSociety]

Shades the true mvps of this series, well done Happy vision is key

[@TheRancord]

this whole tourney felt such a high level, its such a delight

[@BinxyBrown]

This was one of the best series ive ever seen, these guys are so good

[@allydea]

But the balance is so bad.

[@travisdunlap4526]

Ultimately there were two things that won Happy the series (beyond just the usual Happy is micro god). 1) The Shade: It was so prevalent, buying dust would have been an easily recoverd investment. If your opponent literally knows every move you make its pretty hard to win. 2) I think ground counters to destro just aren't working at the moment. The ghouls + heroes just blitz them too easily. Bats seem the answer, they aren't efficient in cost but they also ensure Happy doesn't covert them into free xp, and frankly once the destros are removed orc seem to have a solid advantage even if their army is lower supply.

[@Guigzibit]

Game 2 was absolutly sick ! Love these players and lots of love for B2W !

[@chrisgriffin6489]

41:20 neo one of your best casting fights in years. Didnt miss a beat and that 1 hp SH lol

[@darkwhispers3130]

That zepelin who saved the Shadow Hunter ... LOL

[@SuperSkandale]

why doesn't Lyn use dust to counter the shade ?

[@thijsjong]

A witchdoctor to place vision wards. Bonus have a semi maphack

[@nisseper4286]

Expensive

[@danielgmerek933]

​@@thijsjongAfter all, if he doesn't use such units in his strategy, he doesn't buy it, because it's an additional, high cost. Another thing is the shadow moves all over the map, so how do you want to get it?. You amateur. Even if you kill it once, Happy will buy it a second time. Also stop giving advice to a pro being an amateur because you don't even understand this game and how a particular strategy works.

[@Wondering236]

Happy is playing totally differently. I do miss his old way of focusing on fight though~

[@3a3ylon81]

Thank you very much for all these incredible games @Back2Warcraft, it's been delightful to watch, as always ;) All the best to all the smart people over here. Have a great day. Peace

[@KyokujiFGC]

Happy really did his best to find the least flattering camera angle, lol.

[@Fernandez218]

idk why Lyn can't follow how Focus won vs Happy recently: going blade/sh mass wyvs/bats. the tc is pretty much useless. stomp is always silenced. he almost always has mana and he's just tanking a bunch of ghouls and coil nova. he dies so quickly. u can't get orc endurnace aura to match up with the unholy aura so orc is always slower than the UD so UD has map control because being so fast on the map. i'd really liked to have seen Lyn try this strat out. bm/sh wyvs/bats. it worked so well. also while tc is being pumped out in the altar (something i didnt know for a long time) he's soaking up experience from the other two heroes on the map. That's why pros always try to tavern back asap otherwise any units killed is spread out to the reviving hero that doesn't even benefit from it yet.

[@danielgmerek933]

You write nonsense. I've seen these pseudo strategies of yours and always wyverns and bats die. And very quickly.

[@jaff0011]

Sad. It feels like at this point Lyn has tried every army comp other than mass peons and nothing really seems to stick. I don't think any army comp will change much until Orc get a Fortitude to innovate their early game. There HAS to be something better than running around with Blade/FS level 1 vs DK and delaying DK's level 3 by 10 secs and hoping for minor miracle steals vs 100 dmg coil? At the same time, if there were a better alternative, I can't imagine Lyn wouldn't have found it already.

[@4bafiafzil999]

Idk man, Lyn played so much better half a year ago. Since then, UD's core stuffs got nerfed and Orc got lot of good buffs and nerfs reverted Lyn is NOT playing the winning strat as he used to

[@randomstuffs8495]

​@@4bafiafzil999lol HH's nerfs was pretty much abolished, Walker's buffs, minor upgrade and tauren buffs are still not enough for them. Meanwhile UD almost got no meaningful buffs in 1vs1 but the emperor still on the throne :v

[@alexch3618]

"get a Fortitude to innovate their early game". You mean, get a favorable patch that destroys all matchups like the former blizzard has been doing with patches? all NE eliminated by quarterfinals and there were 5 in this tournament. They are basically destroying the game. Expect more players to retire.

[@LAdS897]

Why do you think its always down to balance? He lost, the end. Happy is better than Lyn it’s not that hard to acknowledge

[@jaff0011]

@@LAdS897 My bad: Happy is the best player period. Better? I forgot that a comment on a Happy game without praise for the Emperor means his fragile fangirls immediately get butthurt because they've made his accomplishments their own and it's the only way they can also feel some sense of pride and achievement. What kind of miserable existence do you have? Nowhere did I say Lyn is better than Happy. What puzzles me is how Lyn can look so godlike vs players who can really make Happy work for it (not always, it varies) but then get completely rolled by Happy. I'm just trying to understand why always the lvl 1 Blade/FS harass vs DK who inevitably gets lvl 3. It just seems to accomplish so little and puts Orc so massively behind in levels come mid-game.

[@stroemircea-nicolae4373]

These guys always offer a spectale.No only them,there are plenty.I only wish W4 will come soon."Hell!It's about time!"as Mr. Findley would say.And i just hope it will do W3 honor.All the best and keep up the good work!

[@orclogic1495]

656 Orc heroes was INSANE!! I wish Lyn could’ve had that success every match against Happy.

[@aleksasnic874]

Happy birthday also to german Champion :) NEO thanks 1000x - becouse this was great streaming witough ads. Finnally full and amusing expirience!

[@vincentchow2147]

What a master control, even the ghouls could also become the key of game win@2:10:06.

[@scorpazzz]

1:40:23 Happy finds time to pass the Talisman of Evasion to the surrounded Dark Ranger. Just come on...

[@MrPhata]

I think there were a too many mispositionings of SH. TC and BM can't die so UD can just coil nova SH to win

[@4bafiafzil999]

It can be said the same to lich/statue

[@redfordkobayashi6936]

it doesn't matter, orc has to survive 15 coil/nova combos on the SH to win. at high level this is simply impossible.

[@TodorStamatov]

​@@redfordkobayashi6936 Muhahahhahaha. 15 coil nova, you know how much mana that is troll ? At best if you had full mana, you had like 2x-3x Nova. And you can outheal it just with SH heals. There is also invul potion, and HP potions. Also UD can't just focus the SH with coil nova, as you should use coil defensively for your own units. But noobs like you don't get that. I guess it's hard to auto attack and procs crit every 2 seconds for 300+ dmg.

[@dantonkull6491]

@@TodorStamatovwhat crits with banshee imba?

[@enjoythestruggle]

'Chat is pointing out that for an Echo Isles game Lyn's items are abysmal.' Meanwhile Happy with 3 +4 rings...

[@Hadjime63]

Hapach! Hapach! Hapach!

[@carlosantunezmeza]

Warcraft 3.is so.fucking beautiful.. you said it best brother, you said it best

[@user-yq8nt9dn1h]

Great game

[@Gymliftpeep]

very nice expos to win vs late game BM. nice adaptations.

[@oliverliu9248]

Would always cheer for happy. After so many years of being on the bottom of the food chain we finally have an undead dynasty. Might never happen again.

[@zhetian9464]

I hate shade.😭

[@jamescarter1213]

i dont remember since when exactly, but you are my favorite caster of all time

[@lilhaxxor]

Phew... I don't know how you feel that way, but I can't stand his style for some reason. Unlucky me, I guess... EDIT: I know what's wrong. He is a shouter, not an analytical caster. He doesn't teach anything about the game, just repeating everything we already see on screen. That's why usually you have a caster duo (or trio), one of which being an expert who can explain what is going on strategically and tactically.

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

Lyn should really play Human Vs Undead. Lyn is overall a better player than Fortitude, and Forti has won most series Vs Happy in the last 4 monts. This whoie playing Orc Vs UD thing is not working, and hasn't been working for a long time now. Lyn is down to 28% win rate Vs Happy, and also has a negative win rate Vs 120 since 2022. Other Orc players are down to 10% Vs Happy. I don't think that Lyn has been struggling this hard since he made his pro debut in 2004, not even during the days of Sky rush. This is actually disrespectful at this point. Lyn has tried 10 different builds Vs Happy since 2023, and Happy consistently beats him with the same 2 builds of ghouls pushes Vs burrows at 8 minute or tier 3 destroyer push over and over again.

[@3a3ylon81]

"This is actually disrespectful at this point" I can tell! Happy is just better, I'm sorry it doesn't fit your agenda, and I know you can't get over it, but you may ask for psy support, maybe it's not too late.

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

@@3a3ylon81 No, I think that Lyn is actually better. The reason why it's disrespectful is because Lyn is one of the G.O.A.Ts of this game, and it sucks to watch him get undeserved losses because of imbalance. Fun fact: Grubby LawLiet and SoK all think that UD is way too strong Vs Orc.

[@Karifean]

@@user-yp1tp7hf3f Also fun fact: Lyn disagrees, he stated there are no imbalanced races less than two months ago.

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

@@Karifean That is called being a gentleman.. More recently, he said on his stream that UD is the matchup he most dislikes playing against.

[@destroyer5859]

​@@user-yp1tp7hf3fWhy did Lyn let Hqppy have shade vision in every game? Would the games look any different if Lyn killed shade vision? You think having shade vision is a small factor?

[@chopstikz127]

Why doesn't lyn creep the stone creep outside of the lab? Easy quel boots or ring of arch

[@szx2222]

Excellent

[@Igorsov]

1:59:35 Which Warcraft 3 race doesn’t depend on hero levels?

[@jorgeosmarfernandezceballo4471]

HU and ELF depends all on army composition, orc and UD dependes of hero levels and micro. Thats why the 95% taverns heros go to HU and Elf, the other 5% are From DR.

[@Robertiio]

51:43 skelie steal was nice to bad no one noticed.

[@LAdS897]

Think you got the time wrong

[@3a3ylon81]

Please don't! Do not highlight another great play by Happy! Everyone knows skelies are self guided! xD

[@thebigbaiter]

Congrats to the winner! What can I say )

[@Vrark]

Just for the algo. Love your work.

[@emmanuelharel]

MVP: the shade. Blizzard can you do something ?

[@raphaelantoine7331]

What a stomp Long live the emperor!

[@xlatheblackdragon705]

Not really some of them are clutch victory / lyn playing bad, just lucky / lazy wins.

[@rorronoazorro6107]

Why why why lyn is not using bat 🦇 riders

[@danielgmerek933]

Because they are not profitable. They die and cost money.

[@nguyenhaidung8833]

Someone should take the name "Aniversary" and play professional warcraft against Happy

[@xlatheblackdragon705]

Looking back at the second game I feel like UD units really lack damage/hp. Orc's raider, grunts, heahunters, and KODOS have insane hp for UD units to go through. With just a few destroyers (without mana) and ghouls it's just impossible for UD units to kill all the orc army.. it doesn't matter how many destroyers you have bc it's very heavy on supply and does no dmg without mana. Ghouls are the only true damage dealers but it doesn't work well with lich orb, and they die soooo easily to stomp and BM it's unfair. Orc definitely has an advantage here, not ud. Lyn is that much bad to lose to ud. Orc should always win.

[@zhetian9464]

many Chinese fans want to see whether Happy can beat Lyn or Fly in old patch like 1.24 or 1.27. because many fans believe that the dominance of Happy depends on the UD buff with new patch and ORC nerf.

[@nightyonetwothree]

ud buff? Ritual dagger added or what? You need to check patches to see read text over ud and green buffs all over orcs. PS: also, i agree with chinese fans, i would like to see current players play old patches.

[@zhetian9464]

many Chinese fans talk about whether Happy is the best player in WAR3 history. some believe that happy dominance is greater than SKY GRUBBY and MOON. but some argue Happy could not do the same in early era because UD was overwhelmed by ORC for a long time. some buff for UD: 1. Acolyte movement speed and health regeneration. 2. ghoul and the ritual dagger. 3. DK and lich movement speedup and slowdown time of nova. buff UD in early game against ORC. some nerf for ORC: 1. the damage of blademaster 2. the raider ensnare cooldown and stomp of TC 3. the walker has been moved out from TS @@nightyonetwothree

[@nightyonetwothree]

​@@zhetian9464 actually acolytes' buffs are really good, especially +movespeed, +regen and +armor. Ghouls just get +8% attack speed at t3 tech. A bit less than 1 attack upgrade, anyway good. But it's still one of the weakest units ingame vs any aoe. Ritual dagger - almost scroll of regen, but require to sactifice unit. dk didnt receive any movement changes, lich get +20ms same as tc, and most of the 270ms heroes (some receive +30 like paladin). Nova unchanged, but frost armor frost-duration reduced. Ud receive no buffs earlygame besides acolytes and new dagger - frenzy is t3, rod of necromancy being nerfed 2 times already since 1.21, mine buildtime increased, frost armor nerfed, nerubian tower nerfed (attack speed and frost duration). Ah, canniablize cheaper and faster! Orcs get: +100 range, +25 hp and +hp regen on hh/berserkers, also less damage taken during berserk ability. FS' Wolves get +10 manacost, but before than receive +50hp each and gives less exp (level lowered). FS's chainlightning cost 10 less mana and do more damage. BM's mirror image manacost 150 to 80, do 15% damage now. BM's bladestorm cd -60 seconds from 180 to 120. from 110 to 140 dps = 980 damage to all units/buildings around. insane. Fortification on t2. +1 food from townhall. Spiked barricades from 3 upgrades (4/10/16 damage return) to 2 upgrades (5+20/50% return) is faster, cheaper, stronger. All upgrades are cheaper. Grunts' upgrade +25 hp. Spiritwalkers and taurens are faster to produce and upgrade mastering. Batriders +3 damage (+21% = ~+3 attack upgrades). Also, main ud units were nerfed: Destroyers -50hp, manadamage nerfed from 20 to 15, dispell damage 180 to 160. Statues -50hp, experience gived increased, mana replenish -33%. DK's aura nerfed from 10/20/30% to 10/15/20%. Orb armor reduction nerfed from -5 to -4. For sure orcs also received nerfs: Ensnare duration reduced to 9 seconds (still lasts forever, most players just act like this units is already dead, as it cant be dispelled/staffed etc). Cd increased. TC's stomp cd increased from 6 to 7 seconds, stun on heroes(not units) reduced from 2/3/4 to 2/2.5/3 sec. Damage increased (laughable). Still strongest aoe stun ingame. TC's aura movement speed nerfed as DK's (but it has less imact on the game as dk is 1st hero and he picks aura 3 on 6, while TC spend most of the game with level 1 aura until get to level 4, and pick aura 3 only at 7 level (almost never)). FS's wolves cost 10 more mana (still strongest and cheapest summons ingame). Speed scroll cost increased from 50 to 70. BM's agi -2; BM's ww cd from 5 to 2, but cd starts after ww buff ends.

[@lethansolobe]

Why are you talking about old version? Moon, Grubby were benefitted from old Warcrat (weak undead). There is no arguent that Happy is the best player now.

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

I agree with you. Lyn used to be 75% Vs Happy and now he is down to 28%. It's not like Lyn declined massively and Happy improved this massively in a little more than a year. In fact, if you guy back to 2021, Happy's MMR on Wc3 Champions reached it's peak of 2,840 while Lyn's MMR back then was 2,480 or something. Now, Happy's MMR has declined to 2,750 and Lyn's MMR is 2,660. So Happy lost 75% of the time Lyn when his MMR was more than 200 points higher than Lyn's, while nowHappy's MMR is less than 100 points higher than Lyn's, but he beats Lyn 78% of the time. This discrepancy makes NO SENSE!

[@palwaniyazatamuratov519]

Happy is just the best.everyone just should acknowledge it

[@twassell25]

I'm sure orc vs und had nothing to do with the top 2 players in the world having yet another 4-1 result dispite being neck in neck in skill level. Lyn 3-0'd forti that normally beats happy. Happy 4-1's and 3-0's lyn over and over. It doesn't make sense from a skill perspective.

[@randomstuffs8495]

​@@twassell25Happy 3-1 Forti and 3-0 him again in the latest don't force me cup doesn't mean anything to you too huh. You keep rambling about how biased, fanboying I am yet when talking about Lyn you turn a blind eye and refuse to believe him losing, it's all comes to balance bla bla. Bruh work on your reasonings and arguements

[@TodorStamatov]

@@twassell25 and how the f**** you realize they are neck and neck in skill level? As they clearly are not. Happy is like 5x level above Lyn, go cry more now.

[@SCK-47]

@@TodorStamatov yep esp it showed itself on TM where orc should normally shine but Happy was just OP that day.

[@TodorStamatov]

​@@SCK-47 Bro seeing Happy haters cry, given me joy. Happy outexpand a race that have way easier way to expand and their expand and workers is 100x time safer, due to burrow and they also have free(by free i mean it's super fast to come) expand on t3.

[@haiphan3345]

Predictable outcome

[@qiwojin1697]

Happy is so fucking op

[@PK13719]

SPOILER SHIIELD!

[@chopstikz127]

I think lyn needs dust to get rid of shades. Happy sees everything so easily

[@xlatheblackdragon705]

Nevah. Dust too expensive 👹👹👹🤡🤡🤡

[@xlatheblackdragon705]

Man happa micro deteriorated so bad... no dispel and no absorb mana on the dying statue.... please😔😡🤬

[@enjoythestruggle]

Happy has such trouble winning fights with higher supply because destroyers are such dead weight.

[@user-el8bp1gj2m]

DK sadly Hits bm because He knows He cant do Shit vs His ww

[@tak08810]

I think must there must be some mental block now at play. You can’t blame balance although I agree orc needs buffs when Kaho manages to take two maps just a couple of days ago in the most imbalanced matchup currently. And you can’t say Lyn is washed when versus basically everyone else he looks like a god. You can’t say Happy is just so good vs orc when Fly and Focus are basically doing as well but are not near Lyn’s skill otherwise. Hopefully he can overcome it the way Happy overcame his vs eer0

[@sanaebeast4485]

The most imbalanced matchup is Hum vs UD instead UD vs NE, nearly all MMR hum can easily crush UD now in ladder except Happy, the average win rate has already proved it, hum vs UD win rate is much higher than UD vs NE. On the other hand, NE still can use mass faerie dragons to easily win UD under 1800 MMR. All other UD players cannot micro fiends to hit and run perfectly like 120 and Happy when one base UD against two base NE(after 1.35 it's hard for normal UD to expand in the early game), other UD can win mass faerie only due to they limit NE's second expand successfully in the early game, but this situation can be relative easily done by UD over 2000MMR. But UD has the fewest players over 2000MMR.😂

[@4bafiafzil999]

Lyn played better couple of patches ago. Since then, UD's core stuffs have been nerfed while orc get buffed hard. Tbf orc pros should've been more powerful if they played the same game as couple of patches ago

[@lackingempathy]

Those fights were an absolute micro art by Lyn, but still not enough to break casual UD coil/nova

[@randomstuffs8495]

​@@lackingempathyyeah micro art is only a Lyn's thing. Happy got none, clicking hex, stomp, windwalk to activate crit must take way more effort than coil nova it seems. It's Crystal clear most of Happy win in this series was because of expo and Lyn being too stubborn to dust and kill the shade, allowing Happy to get all the vision he needs but losers like you are too blind to see.

[@randomstuffs8495]

​​@@4bafiafzil999lol look at those Happy's last hit mate, Neo keeps cheering everytime Lyn got a steal from Happy but overall the BM barely got any exp 🤣. Not killing the shade the entire game also didn't help either. Btw people still don't believe that the guy who play Lich around 10HP but still managed to kill everything, thousands of times, having incredibly strong mental capacity :v

[@deadlyseven-thexburner9449]

whosyourdaddy

[@tutubebitube5120]

orc orb should purdge imself bad buff imo

[@varyn7058]

The fact that undead needs a 20 food lead to have a chance against orc is insane. A blademaster can own a dk and 4 ghouls with only lvl 1 in earlygame

[@TribunPepe]

whats wrong with happys head

[@Carman157]

Imagine playing a race where coil kills almost everything at ease while also healing your units to full at lvl 1 lol broken race is broken

[@peterswift7]

those pesky shades...

[@mccarthew]

Lyn is good at playing but not so smart huh

[@4bafiafzil999]

People got balls to say UD can delete 10-20 food before fight and there is 1 base Orc winning over not only difference of 30 foods but also an expo

[@lackingempathy]

Where and when exactly this happened? Quite inaccurate comment my sir.

[@randomstuffs8495]

​@@lackingempathybruh it happened with every game happy building expo this series, literally the game Lyn won ?

[@thehellsong]

yeah, its easy for orc, all you need is tear 3, taurens and spirit walkers with master training, 6 5 5 heroes, rune bracers on blade master and blade storm in the middle of the fight just like Fly did, but did he win though?

[@TodorStamatov]

At one point it was 3 base vs 1 base, and not just that, but also Happy was mining for a lot of time of 2 bases, and then the 3rd. As expo needs to pays out, and this takes some time, but in this case Happy was mining for quite some time, has better levels and items, and still get wrecked. Orc tri hero is just too strong. The main problem is UD gets absolutely annihilated with nerfs after nerfs. Lich nerf, statues, expo, nerub, DK, etc, etc. UD literally get absolutely wrecked. The only reason Happy is winning is cause he is like 10x levels above the rest Micro wise, Macro wise, multitasking wise, and most importantly IQ wise.

[@TodorStamatov]

@@lackingempathy did you evenm

[@user-lt6ps2vd5o]

Слава императору

[@lynzhu6934]

Everyone says witch dorctor. Don’t you know you would need spend to build BS first in addition to BT that he is building? I simply think from these 5 games, Lyn is clearly a better player at least from micro standpoint (almost all fights are at a significant supply disadvantage) and come up with clever strategy but still lose to imbalance

[@Scorpzor1]

Lyn was outmicroed and outmacroed in almost all games here. Happy did to him what Lyn does to humans -> keep the pressure on and build your own bases on the back of it. Cry as much about imbalance as you want. Happy is the only UD playersthat does that to Lyn. Which other UD-Player is regularly stomping Lyn like that?

[@lynzhu6934]

@@Scorpzor1 outmacroed agreed. Not doing something to counter shadow given Lyn probably watched Fly’s game is a big big mistake. But if you actually watch the games and are trying to be objective you wouldn’t say outmicro at least in this series. Lyn fights at -20 supplies in multiple games and force happy TP. Why can’t your happy even win one WCG or ESWC?

[@breakbeatz309]

Commented on wrong video

[@noobasaurus11]

Whatever you are having bro, I want some of that shit

[@breakbeatz309]

@@noobasaurus11 LOL wrong vid ofc

[@MortredMaul]

SPOILER I dont understand why Happy's opponents don't use dust frequently. He always uses shades in late game and has so much valuable information about army, movement expo etc. Information is power and the shade gives immense information about everything your opponent does. Same goes for Forti. Just get one Flyer with your army to kill that shade!

[@danielgmerek933]

Do you think you're going to catch the shadow moving all over the map with dust? Are you kidding me?. If you're not a pro, then keep quiet about killing anything. Do you think lyn doesn't know about such basics? Why do the biggest amateurs always want to give advice to pros on the internet? Have you ever played at this level? As you can see, you haven't played because you have zero idea about this game.

[@MortredMaul]

@@danielgmerek933 So one’s only allowed to talk about it when you are a professional. That renders Remo, Carson and Neo‘s input obsolete then. Let me clarify my thoughts. From all the recent Happy games that I‘ve seen the shade frequently follows the enemy army. So yeah, a random dust (which has 2 charges) may hit the target more often than not. Moreover he had the production buildings for witch doctors. So one would already be sufficient. The shade does not come for free, so you can do the math yourself. Same applies for Fortitude. Have one flyer with your main army in the late game to detect the shade which is following your movements. I am just putting this into question and playing on such a high level always takes a heavy toll on decision making and micromovements. So I guess sometimes they may forget about this in these stressful phases. A look at the APM supports this thesis. There are a 100 issues that seem to be more pressing because they are visible.

[@renatoaguilar616]

Happy imbaaa we LOVE w3 , its ramrom4verrrrr

[@3a3ylon81]

To all the haters here, to anyone who can't appreciate such a great tourney w/o whining about balance: If UD is so OP, why is it the race the less played by pros ? Anyone ? No ? Ok right: Happy is just better, period. If you can't accept it you may ask for psychological support, I think it's too late already but you never know.. Peace

[@danielgmerek933]

You don't understand the simple analogy, amateur. It's not about the balance of one race, it's about all of them. If you're lying, make a little effort. Do you understand the concept of balance 4v4 or 1v4?. or 2v2 or 2v3?. If at least one race can't cope with the other, then there is no balance. Because it doesn't matter if he wins with two if he has no right to win with the third. In such a situation, there is no balance. If you don't accept the truth, amateur, then change the channel, because you're just lying.

[@sinkim4245]

UD : Nova Coil, Nova coil, Nova Coil...... oh...... coil Nova.

[@LAdS897]

👍

[@3a3ylon81]

Dumb people: whine whine... whine.

[@returnofmerenguespersempre6664]

stoked to see you anguish over it

[@spectralnebulah]

Make SH's Healing Wave able to also damage only the UD enemy units like a Chain Lightning. Like Holy Light - to make half the damage of its healing rate. This will impact only OvU and will not be imba at all and make the Orcs able to "nuke" UD too. I'm sick of this coil+nova=kill one by one every single orc unit. Simple and elegant solution which will be hated only by undead noobs. Destroyers are magic immune, so it will help only against ghouls and skeletons. SH will be much more desirable as a 1st hero Healing : 130/215/300 Damage : 65/110/150 Jumps : 3/4/5

[@nightyonetwothree]

did you watch the games? Or just read the numbers on the healing wave? It already outheals coilnova and even more. Orcs are literraly immortal with this spell + ancestral spirit.

[@TodorStamatov]

Are you braindead? Orc already have huge damge, from BM crits and his WW, also TC has shockwave and his Stomp also do damage + imba stun, and as well as Chain Lightning, and all of this are huge AOE spells, unlike Coil, and also unlike Nova, which needs units to be next to each other, and don't jump from unit to unit.

[@danielgmerek933]

​@@nightyonetwothreeImmortals that they go down for one shot?. That's interesting nonsense you're telling.

[@nightyonetwothree]

@@danielgmerek933 timecode of oneshot. Stop this nonsense. The only orc unit possible to be oneshoted is peon.

[@tomfung6377]

Coil nova OP

[@thehellsong]

So UD can go tear 3 and place goldmines and will be stronger army-wise at all stages of the game until orc get some leveles but at the same time UD do everything he wants on the map and place multi goldmines without any threat, cool

[@lackingempathy]

Joke of a game .... its getting boring...

[@sdamer4609]

NEs have been doing this for ages, glad we've got a fair patch finally and no more NEs even in semis.

[@randomstuffs8495]

Idk maybe should've just killed the freaking shade since the sarc pit is on. UD has to deal with invisible BM by dust all the time but somehow Orc buying some dust to kill a much weaker scouting unit is ... unfair. Skill issue is what it is lol

[@twassell25]

Yeah because a shade prevents triple expo and all.

[@menpower1]

The whiners are out in full force! GG Happy

[@twassell25]

I mean was it though? Happy looked pretty bad losing a map against an orc homestly.

[@randomstuffs8495]

Could've been better but overall great series and tours. Just like people' wish, the emperor was truly tested :v

[@twassell25]

No he wasn't? It was an easy 4-1 and should have been 4-0. Orc vs und is a default win for und.

[@randomstuffs8495]

​​​@@twassell25he got 2 series loss. Everyone was like: we may have a Hu mirror final after Sok and Forti winning a lot. Yet still the familiar faces in the grand final. I already talked about why Lyn lost so don't feel like explaining it again. As for the UD - Orc matchup, nope I don't agree with you :v

[@TodorStamatov]

@@twassell25 CRY MORE. Is that why when Happy and Lyn reverse race Happy owned Lyn with ? Happy was Orc, Lyn UD, and Happy won 2-0. Go cry more.

[@MrNhargreaves]

this mf would blow happy the first chance he gets. Thats how bad of a fanatic he is.

[@randomstuffs8495]

​@@MrNhargreavesget new joke lil bro, only fanatics like you would think of dirty things like that seeing a random compliment 😂

[@marcoreus7444]

Orc > ud, but Happy > Lyn. He is a GOAT!

[@TodorStamatov]

Exactly.

[@noobasaurus11]

You can almost taste the salty tears of some of the commenters here. Stop whining, enjoy the replays. Or if UD is so OP, go pro with UD and win some tier 1 cups yourself.

[@Desdekado]

Orcs don't know how to play vs UD in the last six months or a year. They tried everything: FS with mass wyverns, with head hunters, spirit walkers and riders, mass kodois, mass riders. Now they are trying the same thing, but with the blade master... UD just play the same thing. Why change anything if it works? UD sells the portal, calmly sets up two additional bases and still has money for the shadow, and the orc sits and shakes on the base with towers and concrete.

[@4bafiafzil999]

Idk man, Lyn played so much better half a year ago. Today, UD's core stuffs got nerfed and Orc got lot of good buffs and nerfs reverted but orc pros' performance dipped and resorted to cheese most of the time

[@twassell25]

​@4bafiafzil999 what on earth are you talking about? Lyn absolutely crushed everyone he played against, he 3-0'd the guy that normally crushes happy. But sure keep thinking balance has nothing to do with it lol

[@yoool7137]

@@4bafiafzil999 it still not the old bm...bm was alot stronger back in the day...and the problem is really coil...its way to cheap...make it 85 mana and themu would be balanced

[@nightyonetwothree]

​@@yoool7137 bm is stronger now then ever. Bladestorm buffed by reducing cd from 180 to 120 sec, damage increased from 110 to 140 per second. Mirror image cost reduced from 150 to 80, now illusion do 15% damage (insane), mirror image stil grants invul and self dispel. WW cd reduced to 2 seconds. Crits are the same. Only nerf is -2 agi in 2018 (but he was granted +1 agi before, so basically it's -1 total). Even humans who are usually buffed every patch, never receive such many useful and strong buffs to one hero.

[@TodorStamatov]

@@yoool7137 f**** off. Then nerf Crit to do half the damage, and Wind Walk CD to be 10 seconds. Stop crying baby. Happy is your daddy.

[@andreaszeller7399]

Banshees curse needs to be nerfed from 33 to 25% chance to miss AND the spell time on heroes should be like slow from the sorceress. These missed crits from BM are really painful to watch. Ghouls need just A nerf, someone just please pick one! Still one of the best units in the game because of synergy with dk´s aura, lich´s dark ritual and the ritual dagger item, in combination with the fact, that this is also a worker unit. My proposition is a) Frenzy tech should be 30 seconds longer (the 9 minute ghoul push especially against NE is too strong) b) Frenzy tech nerf regarding movement and attack speed (10% less movement, 5% less attack speed) c) Cost of Frenzy tech should be raised from 100g/150w to 175g/200w Also destroyers shouldnt get any HP back at all from devour magic AND/OR devour magic should have a longer cooldown (2-5 seconds). Mana gain is okay right now. Maybe reduce the maximum mana because the UD all-in timing pushes are just too strong. Dark Rangers minions and the minions from rod of necromancy should give 50% more EXP. The fight for EXP in the war of attrition (after the map is fully crept) is always won by UD and can be maintained because of holy aura and high damage high distance spells. The distance from Nova should be nerfed by 100. An instant dmg spell should not have the same distance as the others... Frost Novas cold duration should be 3/5/6 instead of 4/6/8(!)... The cooldown from dark ritual should be just 5 seconds longer. If matchup against HU is too hard with this 5-7 nerfs, lets rearrange HU then, but it is necessary for the matchup against ORC and especially NE. Kodo devouring should be 50% faster (so 7 or 8 dmg per second, lets start with 7), because it is a VERY long duration shade for the opponent after TPing away with full stomachs of full HP Units. Also Kodos movement speed should be just 5% faster. lightning orb proc chance should be increased (but I dont know how much right now because of the other matchups, maybe only 5% and then reevaluate). NE whisps should have 15/20 hp more. On pro level it is so important to detonate them in time, they give way to easily 25 EXP. My moon well proposition: a) moon wells should always heal HP first, and then the MP (healing dryads can be really annoying, because you rarely want the MP healed with them) b) Rearrange/buff the starting mana from moon wells, while reducing the max mana. Make wellspring mandatory at tier 3 Rings should also give 3/4/5% (or even more) magic reduction AND/OR please make some little magic reduction item (10-15%)!

[@rikkitikitavi513]

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@user-pl8hy8qy6z]

man you are a clown, you know?

[@4bafiafzil999]

TL:DR delete UD altogether from the game But I like the suggestion where moon well will have option either to heal hp/mana instead of both, QoL is just generally good for everyone without bias

[@nightyonetwothree]

@@4bafiafzil999 actually i disagree on moonwells. And i'm an elf player. It will remove mana/hp management aspect from the game, making moonwells 4x time stronger (heal) as restoring mana is 4x manacost. Currently it's a smart decision not to spend mana before nukes to heal cheaper, then fight with mana. Or vs elves you can focus low-mana elven heroes/units to drain their moonwells at higher rate. That's why you dont want to coil dh until level 3 - at level 1 manaburn cost dh a 50 mana, restoring which in moonwells is equal to 200hp (more than coil level 2 damage). As example.

[@returnofmerenguespersempre6664]

@@rikkitikitavi513 the realest answer to that wall of text above, tired reading it half way

[@MrNhargreaves]

happy aint shit until he proves himself with another race than the UD. IF its really that balanced then it should be no problem for him.

[@randomstuffs8495]

The tears 🤣, comment on every single happy's vid, watch the series to the end only to cry about it. So much for calling other "obsessive"

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

@@randomstuffs8495 The reason why so many people don't like Happy is not because of him, but because of his fanboys such as yourself. You are insufferable.

[@3a3ylon81]

@MrNhargreaves If UD is so OP, why is it the race the less played by pros? Have you heard any pro complaining about it? Why are you that stoopid that you want everyone who doesn't lack common sense here to know about it? Btw it's pure rhetoric, those questions don't need any answer (just in case you can't realise this either.. lol)

[@3a3ylon81]

@@randomstuffs8495 ​ I know right, such disbelief is sick to read, people can't accept reality, they will always try to find anything, even the most stoopid argue like this one, that may prove them right it's "funny"

[@menpower1]

The hilarious thing is that Happy has beaten all the top players with races other than UD. There was a period in time when Happy kept playing random and tournaments were forcing offraces. Happy has beaten Lyn with NE and beaten Moon with pre-buff HU among other outstanding games

[@JeanNezMarre25]

Happy would have lost without the shades. Weird that Lyn didn't do anything about it. Slava Ukraini

[@nightyonetwothree]

Happy is 10 heads above all other wc3 players. Even broken bm, sh with healing wave, tc, everlasting undispellable free ensnares, free devours, and ressurecting walkers for free didnt guarantee autowin for lyn. But lazy players who dont dust shades must be punished. Yet games were close, despite the fact skillwise there is an abyss between goat happy and current lyn.

[@danielgmerek933]

Having a shadow doesn't change anything. The undead moves faster around the map and kills monsters faster. And it is more powerful in combat. Lyn has already tried all the available strategies, where Happy has been playing the same thing over and over again for many years and has never really lost. It's not a balance. Undead is just badly done. There is no balance, and this is where the developers are to blame.

[@nightyonetwothree]

@@danielgmerek933 Wow. Orc spending 0 (zero) gold on rax and units, press t2 and then you blame balance for "ud creep faster"? Still after reaching t2 orcs outfarm ud and dominate the map. Sounds like reverse creeping balance issue? As soon as bm start hitting creeps - he wins the creeping race. Talking about movement on the map: speed scrolls. Cheap, easy, 10 seconds of 522ms for all. Broken. Add here TC aura - now orcs move same/faster as ud. If orcs go raiders - woa-la - 350 ms units +tc aura cant be outrunned. Orcs are literally The fastest race, also with highest dps units (berserkers, spirit walkers, taurens, bm, fs, wyverns, +raders vs buildings)

[@Horangs714]

LoL Orc vs UD matchup still busted. As been said before, UD can play ok while Orc has to play perfect and even then, no guarantee of win. Watch the last 5 times they played. Need a new WC shit getting old. Only chance against UD at this point is HU play, which is basically the same shit as UD.

[@kimeric7673]

Happy is not special at all. He's just playing the opest race ever in w3 history.

[@Meatlord69]

Keep crying about it, kid.

[@Scorpzor1]

Race is so op, that Happy is (besides eero) the only one playing it and dominating with it in the top level XD. I bet Happy is bathing in your tears, mate :D

[@jorgeosmarfernandezceballo4471]

Maybe if you say that without crying you gonna believe it hahhahahaha

[@BasilAbdef]

@@Scorpzor1 That's because there are only about 15 people still playing this game total. Happy is very good yes, but he's the king of a very, very tiny pond.

[@TodorStamatov]

Stop nerfing UDs, they are unplayable currently. Good that Happy is 5 levels above everyone else. Lyn is so bad it's unreal. Happy needs 3 base vs 1 base and 30+ supply in order to get some chances to win the game. Completely outplayed and destroyed Lyn, yet the game was so so even. Absolutely pathetic the state of the game. While Lyn have good micro, his IQ level and game sense is terrible. 5 Games and he is keep doing the same early game, even though he achieve next to nothing. How about creep the BM to level 2 and then try go try to steal creeps and finish off low ghouls. You will have a lot more chance that way, and then you won't need 5295828528588 xp to level the under leveled BM. 120 has making this mistake so often vs Happy, when he plays DK vs Lich. And when he creep to lvl 2 his DK and then go harras and messing with Happy creep he always have a lot more success. This is so obvious it's unreal. Orc also have 100x easier time to expand, yet Happy outplay and outexpand Lyn in every single map. Absolutely terrible. Lyn Win condition is just f**** leveling his heroes, as they are the strongest 3x. Heroes as long with the HU. Just focus on getting 4/3/3 and expo and the game is yours. Orc base currently also have the best defense by far. Burrows do insane amount of damage to every single UD units, it's unreal. Tower are super cheap, have very fast attack damage, and are slaughtering Destros and ghouls. Happy micro, macro and especially multitasking and game IQ is unmatch. I wonder how much he will take, until he say enough is enough. Why the heck i should work 10x time harder and play so much more and better in order to barely win games, so the other to have chances against me.

[@randomstuffs8495]

Fun series to watch regardless. And new PTR is coming, let's see what Blizzard cooked again

[@TodorStamatov]

@@randomstuffs8495 i can tell you nothing good. They are id****. They are listening to Grubby and this 2 genders.

[@palwaniyazatamuratov519]

​@randomstuffs8495 PTR what is it?

[@4bafiafzil999]

It's unfair to say Lyn's win condition is only levelling up his heroes, every players do that because for 5 foods, heroes will grow more powerful over time. However in this match, Lyn depends a lot on BM's damage by playing more tanky, defensive strat such as kodo as distraction, devouring ghouls and mitigating army DPS and SW for spirit link. SW actually deal decent magic dmg against heavy armor ghouls and kodos have too many value for 4 foods and its tankiness is a plus

[@horderob2025]

not true. Lyn played great, the situation that UD got economy advantage but cant win straight fight was not mistake from Lyn, both players was OK with that and expecting to win. Execution from both was at the level unreacheble to any other player right now. The only thing i disagree with Lyn is that he tried to use that strat on TM. if you have 50/50 on small maps you dont have chances on big one. Oh yeah, and first map - Lyn build an army to outcreep opponent, but early shade revealed he isnt ready to fight yet and made imposssible to avoid Happy's army. I wouldnt say its a mistake, Happy is usually predictable, Lyn just didnt expect that. But execution was extremely high-level from both, every little mistake punished hard, every micro opportunity considered. I didnt expect that level from Happy, tbh, he played much worse during the tournament (except for LB final). I didnt expect it from Lyn, his last match vs Happy looked hopeless, i thouhjt that Happy mentally destroyed him like many-many others. I mean, its not T1 event, its only 1,8k for the first place, players often participate only to be in good shape, but here two S-tier players trying their best. score is 4-1 but games were sharp and close. I think we should all be grateful to Lyn and Happy for that perfomance and i wouldnt hope to see anything close to that in April

[@twassell25]

Its pretty sad that happy actually lost a map versus an orc in 2024 haha. Neo acts like happy is just that much better than lyn. Isnt it weird how happy loses to forti all the time but lyn easily 3-0s him, and crushed everyone he plays until he plays against an und of his skill level where he then easily gets 3-0'd or 4-1'd? But lets keep pretending balance has nothing to do with it and Happy is just that much better than Lyn. The joke is still on Lyn for still playing orc vs und at this point. Lyn's tried 9 different builds i think it is to beat happy and has only managed to take two maps off of him this year. But sure keep trying new builds and not a new race.

[@randomstuffs8495]

Yeah I'm sure clowns like you can 7-0 Lyn in a showmatch without breaking a sweat. You try to act high and mighty at first but when your idol lost too much we get to see the real you, another crybaby crying like you bet all of your money and went bankrupt 🤣

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

I agree with you that Neo&Remo's narrative that balance cannot possibly explain it and that it's all about mistakesm is absurd. The player of one race tries *literally* 10 different builds and always loses while the player of the other race consistenly wins by doing the same 2 strats over and over again: 8 minute ghoul pushes Vs burrows or tier 3 mass destroyers, and we are supposed to believe that pushing against burrows is special. The worst part is that the game will die since pros will just give up and move on with their lives. Grubby and Hitman have both retired from WC3 because of balance, and it seems that Lyn and Soin are soon to follow as they both mentioned on their streams that theya re disheartened. Only FoCus will remain with his amazing 10% win rate Vs UD. LOL.

[@twassell25]

Damn, didnt know both lyn and soin are talking about retiring. That sucks but I can't blame them. What's the point if you play literally perfect and the outcome is still determined based on your opponent making multiple mistakes dispite outplaying him all game...im thinking of lyn vs 120 a month ago or so. Another funny one was 120vs fly where 120 forgot to make an aco, and mined at 4 aco all game on TR. Fly made towers and had hero advantages, and 120 blindly rolls into the orc base while being down in levels, food supply, and upgrades, with towers and burrows attacking him and just easily won the game, all while mining 20% less than his opponent. It's a joke at this point unfortunately. And yeah, I mean I hate to see wc3 finally die, but what's the motivation for people like Lyn to keep playing like this?

[@user-yp1tp7hf3f]

@@twassell25 Soin was actually retiring some 6-12 months ago, but then gave up, and now he is talking about it. I am one of the very few people in the West that watches Lyn stream, even though my Mandarim is terrible. When he was asked about it, Lyn said that he is "disheartened" by the matchup Vs UD and that it is now his least favorite matchup to play. Another thing: the previous times when he loses important tournaments, Lyn spends 30+ minutes after the stream breaking down replays and.This time after his last game Vs Happy, he didn't even type a full "gg", but just "g" and after the game he just turned off the stream right there and left. He never did this before. I can understand, since he is literally 1-13 Vs Happy in tournaments this year, something that never happened in his entire career sinxe 2004. Not even Sky during the days of "Sky rush", when top Humans had 90% win rate Vs top Orcs, did he ever lose this much and this badly. Now, Lyn is *extremely* gentlemanly and polite and would never blame balance on loss, but his continued failure in beating top UDs like Happy and 120 is starting to trigger him. Yeah, I saw the game Vs 120...Lyn had higher level heroes, a 60 food army Vs 42 food army, and yet 120 like you said mining with 4 acolytes just charged into his base, destroyed it and killed all his army. BTW, Grubby flat out stated on his stream the other day that UD is OP against Orc and that the reason why Lyn tries so many builds is not because he is trying to see if there is an effective build, but because he's trying to surprise Happy by giving him something that he hasn't prepared against in order to see if that makes Happy more cautious about trying to demolish his burrowa. According to Grubby, there is no way to get a base that can counter ghouls pushes and have a fighting army with Orc economy. He said it is *completely* impossible. Grubby is retired, but he still is so strong that he defeated LawLiet the other day on ladder(with wyverns!) and went 2-1 Vs Leon and 3-1 Vs RazzorMoon. You know Grubby? The 2 time WCG World Champion? He knows Lyn very, very well, and he said that the reason why Lyn tries all those builds is not because he trying to find something that works, but becaue he is trying to throw Happy off-balance because everything else failed. Grubby said that Orcs at this level know almost immediately what build to use and that no Orc would try 4 different builds in one series. There is only 1-2 builds possible per map depending on race of opponent. Grubby said that Neo and Remo don't understand the real reason why Lyn is doing this because only a very high-level Orc Grandmaster would even understand this reason.

[@ramtintashakkor7311]

UD vs ORC is so unbalanced its disgusting

[@Dgvgjvcbjjcxdfvbjjbcc]

Ты не можешь победить чемпиона. Какую бы грязь ты не планировал.

[@hientranxxx]

lyn doesn't deserve to meet happy in the final. He needs to lose soon.

[@georgemirzoyan2722]

:D nothing new. HAPPY is just better than Lyn :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD