We All Saw This Coming... (F-4F ICE) | War Thunder

What BR do you think the F-4F ICE deserves?
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[@StrayGuard]

The problem that nobody is mentioning its that this plane gets the 12.7 BR due to the AIM-120 but it isnt getting the AIM-120 on a stock configuration so we are going to be relying on basically flight performance while researching modifications while facing frequent 13.0 battles.

[@AZ-dj1ni]

What of the new aircraft have Fox3 on stock?

[@StrayGuard]

@@AZ-dj1ni No plane gets them stock, but the coment isn't about that. Until you get the AIM-120 modification this plane is essentially an F-4F at 12.7.

[@doktork3406]

You are expected to pay to unlock, obviously. The free to play business model assumes they playerbase are weak minded slaves to be milked

[@Pioneer_DE]

@@StrayGuard F-4F*

[@newzarte4444]

One the devserv the br change with ur load out

[@Cardinal8427]

That F15 getting hit by that R73 was glorious

[@SeekerHead]

Saved me fr

[@mice6545]

R-73* but yeah that was fucking hilarious

[@Cardinal8427]

@@mice6545 ah crap, thanks for pointing that out

[@kampsie1841]

@@mice6545 it's the same thing, grammar nazi

[@baumlord439]

Me looking at that 12.3 f15 while this thing is at 12.7 🤡🤡💀💀

[@hubril7921]

german mains need to bomb more in their toptier jets to lower its br like the F-15

[@gamemodeon1230]

Germany rly suffers... all the top tier planes have little countermeasures and with new multitasking and irccm we are going to need a lot 😢

[@GeneralLee2000]

When Greek F-4E upgrade with AMRAAM now 🙏

[@Skoodelly]

YES LETS GO ΕΛΛΑΔΑΡΑΑΑΑΑ WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ECONOMY???!!!🇬🇷 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷

[@Pelliq_E]

Video released 2 minutes ago, comment from 8 hours ago..

[@SeekerHead]

@@Pelliq_EYT members 💪🏻

[@_mr.first_]

​@@Skoodelly WE'RE GETTING INTO THE DEBT WITH THIS ONE 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[@tendymusic9095]

As much as I hate to admit it if that would be added it would 100% be a premium

[@mcohanov]

meanwhile belgian F-16 with 200+ flares and and 9M at 12.3 I hate how inconsistent gaijin is

[@BlueCloverOnline]

"YeAh BuT No AmRaAm So MuSt Be LoWeR bR" ~ Gaijin Probably...

[@DatFatThor]

​@BlueCloverOnline I mean yeah. The F15A has 9M and is 12.3

[@OneMoreDesu]

Yo wyd dying to IR missiles?

[@Brzzzyexe]

@@BlueCloverOnline not having fox-3's is going to be a really big competitive disadvantage, wouldn't really say that a "good flight model" justifies an aircraft being high up in br because 95% of the time flight performance does not matter at all

[@HoeBreathing]

@@Brzzzyexe I'd love to disagree, I stock grinded the Mig29's and the Mig29 for Germany at 12.0 I rarely got missile kills till I go the R27. And even in the Mig29G a majority of my kills are gun

[@StrayGuard]

Planes like this only make the BR compression problem more evident. In downtiers is going to dominate and in uptiers is going to get crushed.

[@XYVTN]

If it ends up at 12.7 it will still suffer in downtiers. Even at 12.3 I don't see it goin anywhere really.

[@SteelxWolf]

that's kinda how it is irl anyways. last gen airframes experience real life compression XD. That comes with the price of upgrading old stuff.

[@musicheaven1679]

​@@SteelxWolfWe aren't in real life. A game can be balanced by just changing stats, gaijin simply refuses to.

[@SteelxWolf]

​@@musicheaven1679 I know. I was just making a funny observation that that's what happens irl. its a real thing. its the price of upgrading old airframes as time goes on. I was not arguing for BR compression because of that. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand by just reading what I said. I didnt say "Therefore it should stay that way" now did I? This is such a trigger word for people that makes them go monkey brain and I find that very funny.

[@XYVTN]

@@SteelxWolf too much realism isn't good for any game, even full on simulators. The ICE could work if they finally choose to decompress (which will never happen), remove player markers so that you could fully utilize the radar capabilities and the "support" plane aspect and reduce the player count.

[@TheSamplebridge]

3:30 that f15j absolutely eating that friendly r73 was awesome

[@В.Демченко]

xd its the only moment when my crying face smiled (ima german main its over for me)

[@thehighground7732]

This is why I don't get why people want the Mig 21 Bison to get R-77s, all giving it Fox 3s will do is put it in the same boat as this thing.

[@SeekerHead]

Yeah the bison is too high as is

[@Raickten]

i was laughing after i read Excellent flight characteristics. in the devblog for the ice xD

[@r1pper_r00]

The ICE is so bad I almost thought Gaijin would pull another "F-16AJ move" and give Germany an AMRAAM-equipped F-20 at 12.7 (West Germany tested the plane in the early 80's). Good luck flying this thing or the MIG-29G with only 60 countermeasures until the Typhoon arrives.

[@xshaddd]

ngl 29G is miserable. missiles are like r-60m but more pull, it's really sad

[@BugattiONE666]

​@@xshadddStill better than Harrier and Tornado

[@Nasibi_98]

You have j39 don't cry​@@BugattiONE666

[@rfiuwwinlye7453]

​@@xshadddBeen playing it quite a lot recently, its not that bad. r73 IS FAR superior than r60m (basically the reason why gaijin didnt lowered it to 12.3 with f15, their words not mine). You need to pay attention and just hug the ground and play it like a rat works well for me.

[@łłłł-s2x5i]

thanks already started crying when I saw the thumbnail

[@ryanhodges2201]

Abandon competitiveness, embrace the Phantom

[@Vengeance4308]

They should have gave them a polish f16 but now there is 0 point in playing air for germany

[@potatouno]

Polish F-16 wouldn't make any sense. There really wasn't anything to be added to germany right now, they just gotta wait for eurofighter

[@Vengeance4308]

@@potatouno the euro fighter is gonna be at least 6 months out they supposed to only use a f4 until then poland is under the german tree why not give them something as an actual placeholder to compete instead of a brick

[@potatouno]

@@Vengeance4308 I'm sorry, where is poland in german tree?

[@theDarkside798]

@@potatounoLeopard PL

[@potatouno]

@@theDarkside798 Oh, that's right, but i mean, leopard is literally german vehicle operated by Poland, f-16 is quite different, plus it couldn't be in TT, would need to be in squad research

[@Loudward__]

F4F Ice Phantom hopium over Kurnass Super phantom hopium starts

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Super hopium you might even say.

[@bekirbd]

What weaponry should it get?

[@DaSteeJ07]

F15 is 12.3 and this is 12.7? Lmao

[@mil1367]

why is this 12.7 when (iirc) the f15a is 12.3.....

[@V-V1875-h]

Because the f15 has to be undertiered forever

[@mikeyplayzwrld]

Because it has fox 3s that would ruin any tier below 12.7, that’s why. You still have Aim-120s for goodness sake. Add on the Aim9M with smoke it’ll be fine. Top tier isn’t about dogfighting anyways. Say fast you’ll be fine.

[@n1coR]

because there is rarely a player that has above 2.0 kd in an F15A, because the F15A is not realy up with the other top tier jets.

[@JackTheSnail-x8z]

Because US mains are brainrotten, that's why 😂😂😂

[@mayonotes9849]

@@mikeyplayzwrld That's BS. By that logic the F-14A and B should be 12.7 and those planes (A sits a full BR down and B a 0.7 difference) have way better flight performance (in the case of the B, way more CMs). If you give the F-14B AIM-9Ms it'll easily be 12.7 already.

[@SteelxWolf]

12.0 imo is where the 3.5 gens with Fox 3s should sit. the F14B is solid because of the buff to the 54C. 2 54s and 4 sparrows is a solid combination without breaking anything. The F4 ICE, JA37D, Tornado F3 Late. would be fine. they only get 4 AIM120s on last gen airframes. 12.3 would make more sense because of the downtiers but Gaijin needs 13.3 for that. Which should have already happened

[@exodus1383]

3:32 average R-73 launch

[@conarteest2939]

The only reason this thing suffers is cause Gaijin refuses to move it down. It would be perfectly fine at 12.0 or even 12.3, but they just won’t move it down. In no way is this thing better than the F15As. Now, I’ve heard people arguing that “it’ll bully the 11.3s if it gets moved down.” Okay, tell me which ones? The MiG23? The F4S? Well yeah, if you are brain dead and use the F4S as a bomber, you gonna get bullied. And for those saying “No you can’t put AMRAAMS at 12.3” the J8F is at 12.3 and has R77s, and F14 is at 12.0 with Phoenixs. Both of those have a much better flight model too.

[@kierano8390]

if the ice goes to 12.3, then the new harriers with amraam would have to go to 12.0, because they are just worse than the phantom in every single way...

[@kierano8390]

stop coping, germany will get a top tier meta thing soon, you had the best thing ever, the mig29 g for so long, germany doesnt need the best thing ever for every update, now you can feel how other smaller nations felt when they had nothing top tier

[@conarteest2939]

@@kierano8390 So wait, lemme get this straight. Your argument for why the F4F ICE should stay 12.7 is because "The harriers would need to move down" and "Germany has the MiG29G." You're pulling my leg, right? I fully agree, 12.3 Harrier does seem stupid. But complaining about the MiG29G? Brother, did you forget we got that an update late for zero reason? Did you forget that its flight model is nerfed into the ground right now? The MiG29G hasn't been meta since they added the Gripens and F15s my friend. That was 2 months. It was meta for a single update. "Now you can feel how the smaller nations felt" brother Germany HAS been feeling that. We are well acquainted with that. Also, this isn't about making the F4F ICE meta, its about making it actually playable. Low countermeasures, 1960s airframe. No way in hell this thing should be the same BR as the Gripen and Su27, and a higher BR than the F15As.

[@amanhasfallenintotheriver4660]

​@@kierano8390 The argument that certain nations should suffer so they can feel how minor nations felt is incredibly stupid. No nation should be unplayable because gaijin can't balance things

[@Brzzzyexe]

downtiers at 12.0 while you have fox-3's and a serviceable flight model would be an absolute fucking joke, ig by technicality the phoenix is a fox-3 but holy fuck you'd have to be completely braindead to be killed by one, fox-3's only serve to show how fucking poorly br compression is

[@kabzebrowski]

Funny. When people complained about the mig29 & su27 having garbo radars and the FMs being extremely nerfed 90+% of responses were that flight performance didn't matter, as only the missiles themselves count for top tier. So I guess the same goes for the ICE: don't worry, people, it has awesome radar and missiles, FM doesn't matter at all because it's top tier, and if you can't perform it just means you're trash at the game. Interestingly, the Gripen with it's casual 14Gs turns was by far the best plane in the previous patches, followed by F16s. Curious, ain't it? I'm just gonna watch the top tier manurefest for the next patches, as clearly it's pointless playing anything but USA & Gripens. P.S.: 5 nation player.

[@KittyFoxKitsune]

come on man, there's a difference between an 80's air frame flight performance, and a 60's air frame flight performance....

[@adrianstachowski9422]

Gripen is best because of multipathing abuse and one metric ton of flares/chaff. It simply makes incoming missiles useless

[@amari2509]

Then why does the f16 perform just as well?​@@adrianstachowski9422

[@evo3s75]

The only reason why I will get the F-4F ICE is so I can nearly spade it out for when the Eurofighter Typhoon comes (hopefully december)

[@theDarkside798]

You can pray for an f-18 end of the year, not an eurofighter

[@andrewwillard5625]

That Su team kill when you dogged it though 😂❤

[@AlpieInternet]

I reckon moving up to 13.3 for the top top tier would be the best move to balance around this thing

[@Homelessman80085]

It’s basically like it’s a little brother the F4f and it’s BR situation

[@oyevintj]

I mean... It's gonna be one of the funnest planes to do good in. The achievement

[@amari2509]

Germany suffers

[@NitsuJTrigger]

Good

[@Migthunder]

Fr

[@ANUBISseyes2]

But fr this time

[@Frost_x_NB]

This thing needs to be lower in br. 12.3 would be nice. But Gaijin won’t do it. They have it high simply because it’s a missile truck. Same reason why the lower tier phantoms are 11.3 when honestly they F4E at 11.0 should really have aim 9Ls. Also maybe the F4s ok F4J. They won’t make they better just due to the fact it’s a missile truck with dog shit flight performance

[@ВячеславФролов-д7я]

Yeah, that 11.0-11.3 jump is huge for most of the nations. Take mig23m vs mig23mla/mld

[@Jdhog152]

It would require the BR’s of those planes be increased.

[@crimson_stem]

alright then, time to wait for the Typhoon or the swiss F/A-18 so we wont be completely useless

[@UchihaMadaraGr]

Let's see where this comes from... Germany updated some Phantoms to this level until Typhoon's introduction that was ...already late. The major thing, they wanted an AMRAAM carrier... because they didn't have any western plane capable of BVR anyway and especially with ARH missiles that were introduced some years before and they were going to be the "go to" option. Well, in some terms it was for training as well (pretty logical) because the Typhoon would have ARH/BVR as a standard and pilots need to train to that kind as well, so by the time EF introduced , at least some of them knew how to operate AMRAAM and also the ground stuff how to handle and maintain them. And the whole "training" thing...yes it's expensive...so you want to save time and money. When Greece upgraded theirs to a pretty similar level, the thing was the AMRAAM. They just wanted more AMRAAM capable planes ... It was more "in case of need, break the glass" solution. With AMRAAM they will go up, shoot and gtfo... they won't tangle with 16s or anything of any origin called a fighter and is 4th gen or above. And while Turkey didn't upgrade to that level of A-A (no AMRAAM) , they did HUGE upgrades on A-G equipment, they can even carry Popeye missile!! Which is impressive! Because, Phantom can carry heavy load in general, it was still useful for this. So what to expect in the game? Is it on par with F-16s/15s (even 14B) or Su27s or 29SMT... plain and simple.... NO. It's a missile truck. It's good for what it is. Take it as... a spicy little(big) thing, as an option...not as a solution. Would be fun to try and make it work...it will work...as it was supposed to work. Which means ...yeet and yeet....

[@wojtekburzynski654]

World of Tanks maintains average 1/3 of of matches on every tier you can play ( eg. tier 8 tank plays at tiers 8,9,10 equal number of games) and limits number of tanks on every tier in battle (eg. when you play T8 tank you will face 3 T10 and 5 T9 out of 15 in total). Unless tank sucks in general, nobody cares if it struggles in uptier. Top tiers are happy, because they get to slam everybody and, mid tiers and downtiers are happy because they make up majority and are still competitive. I wish Gaijin took a page from Wargaming's playbook and did similar thing.

[@swagbelly7740]

why de hell pd hard lock jumps to chaff? did they broke them again? i want to understand how pd can lock onto clutter in the first place

[@mayonotes9849]

F-4F ICE with AMRAAM only and AIM-9L(i) sits at 12.7 (same br as F-15C/J Kai and higher than F-15A and F-15J) while only having 90 CMs on a platform that's just not competitive at all at the BR is utterly ridiculous. It should be 12.3 at most with the F-15As, Baz and F-15J being at 12.7 while the newer F-15s with HMS at 13.0.

[@JoshX9706]

New f15s are 13.0, and although moving it down to 12.3 is a bad decision, itll be funny to see f4s players complaining about f4f ices every match

[@mayonotes9849]

@@JoshX9706 They finally moved it up? Good. At first they were 12.7 which is mind boggling considering the F-4F ICE sits at the same BR.

[@JoshX9706]

@@mayonotes9849 I believe they were always marked as 13.0, it’s just 12.7 as default br and 13.0 for air rb

[@MobinBrown]

Its okay, in the future when we get 13.7 this F-4 will have a good spot just like the 11.0 and 11.3 planes currently.

[@gehteuchnixan4156]

Thanks for the one cockpit frame you snuk in there :D now they got it right so far, but put in the wrong pipper... Can Gaijin do anything right?! xDD

[@epico1598]

Hope that the Swiss F/A-18 gets added to the German TT next update

[@alvarovillatoro5187]

I hoped that this aircraft will fill the lack of aircraft with air-to-ground capabilities in the german tree, But I think that won't be the case.

[@YF23BlackWidowll]

At least all the other countries get a gen 4 fox 3 platform. Pray for us German mains

[@cooldemonicbeans1367]

Still waiting for the Yak-141 to get R-77s and 73's

[@atlasrowe864]

I’ll take a more positive route with this. Yeah it sucks now but that means literally the only other fighter we can get next in the EF2000. Which I think will come around christmas or the 3 major updates starting from fall to Christmas. And even then the F4F ice isn’t completely shit, where is lacks in exceptional flight performance vs the F16 F15 ect, it gains in being an easy airframe to control. Its kinda like how the F16A can do alot more than the mig29 yet the mig29 was easier to fly. I used this alot having to 1v1 F15s in my F4J (UK) and won many fights because the average F15 players was dogshit and didn’t understand their plane, which most don’t. So while we dont turn as hard we usually don’t also G lock ourselves and can take advantage of it. So for now its a decent missile slinger and if you know what you’re doing, you’ll still win against the average joe.

[@Skelatalmaniak]

Cutting multipath height in half will be the biggest mistake Gaijin has ever done. F14s and their AIM54s will become even worse than they already are.

[@Lulunananu]

I am almost certain that germany will get a swiss sub-tree with F18.

[@ANUBISseyes2]

I hope

[@KD-_-]

Phantoms against F-15 and F-16 is crazy.

[@ElectroMike_]

this is the only plane in Germany with fox 3s 😭

[@subtractinq]

I think modifications should change your br so it would be better for planes like this where if you don’t bring aim120s your br will be lower and for stock grinding for some top tier jets would be easier. Like for example if you want to stock grind the f16c it will be a br of 11.7 but a fully upgraded f16c it might be 12.7.

[@thehunk1]

We just need dynamic BR changes which are loadout dependent and we're set.

[@DominusRL88]

as a huge phantom enjoyer i cant wait for this thing

[@milsugione]

dayum thats the coolest decal for a cc

[@Nasibi_98]

should be 12.3

[@MarlinHunter673]

Will still outdogfight the Su-27 and the MiG-29SMT.

[@SeekerHead]

Na

[@n1coR]

Su-27 will kill it after 1 turn

[@UchihaMadaraGr]

Ofc... you just have to 3d party them. you won, you outdogfight them... I didn't see him stating 1v1, so he is technically right...

[@HoeBreathing]

@@UchihaMadaraGrthats not really dogfighting

[@LordGangrel]

Wait... It's engines are straight with the fuselage instead of angled down?

[@adrianstachowski9422]

And stock grind with stock phantom performance and 2 aim9L xD

[@notmyrealaccount5245]

Yeah Germany really anticipated it but now it's now DOA Dead. On. The. Spot. It should've been added earlier

[@HEATSEEKR]

Needs to be 12.3 and itll be fine imo. F-4 is an old airframe by that point and having ARH can only get you so far on the F-4. The same was true for the EJ Kai. Old airframe with updated ATA weapons can get you close but not on the same level as something such as the F-15J that replaced it. Maybe even 12.0 depending on how the ICE preforms in live matches.

[@mikeyplayzwrld]

You still have Aim-120s for goodness sake. Add on the Aim9M with smoke it’ll be fine. Top tier isn’t about dogfighting anyways. Say fast you’ll be fine.

[@SeekerHead]

I can’t think of a single reason why I’d want to play the F4F over the F15A other than the amraam tbh. But the F15A is 12.3, not 12.7…

[@HEATSEEKR]

@@mikeyplayzwrld Never said it was. Having a good airframe vs a great airframe can make a difference. We're talking about Flankers, F-16s, MiG-29s, F-15s, Mirage's, Gripens, etc. vs a 60s airframe. Staying fast isn't always an option with the constant maneuvering and cutting/applying the throttle with countermeasures to evade missiles. Having the power of these new airframes is definitely an advantage.

[@HEATSEEKR]

@@SeekerHead Yeah and it does just was well as the 16C with 2 more missiles, if not better thanks to the lower br giving more downtiers on those rare occasions. The F15 in a downtier beats people like an abusive father.

[@mikeyplayzwrld]

@@HEATSEEKR there’s the problem. You’re playing the Phantom wrong. You shouldn’t really be in a place where you have to flare multiple irccm missiles. Stay out the fireball and stay of the outskirts. Sideclimb and fire from afar. Stay above everyone.

[@adrianstachowski9422]

Gaijin refusing to add actually competitive plane like swiss F18 becuase it's US made so they add inferior US made F4. What else you need to know :P It's easier to copy paste a vehicle model, buff FM a little, change a weapon systems and call it brand new plane. The same story with ALOT of vehicles

[@borisglevrk]

what BR for ICE? let's not forget F-4E is 11.0. I very much doubt AIM-120 would justify a +1.7 BR considering Gaijin is going to make it defeatable somehow anyway. I personally am very new and not even to the jets at all but I'd imagine more like 12.0 max.

[@SpindlerMatthias]

its 11.7 so yeeahhh

[@GP15Connoisseur]

“It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot.”

[@HoeBreathing]

1v1 a Su-27. Not even the Su27sm, just the standard su27, or maybe the mig29smt/g. oh wait you lose in 9/10 cases? must be your fault

[@SeekerHead]

Worst phrase in the entire game

[@joxxeyy]

if the ICE is coming to the game, maybe the kai can get its aam3s

[@AxlePlaysGames]

I would like to present the Sea Harrier FA.2

[@GuffinMcGuffin]

It should have been without AMRAAM on 11.3. Something like F4J in US tech tree... years ago.

[@mikuks9782]

It could carry the IRIS-T so maaabyyyy…at least it wouldn’t be the worst jet anymore.

[@HoeBreathing]

IRIS-T isnt in game, no use in theories on how it could be good

[@FNKB888]

It seems gajin really hates the phantom, and that’s personal for me, it’s my favorite

[@TheAngriestGamer.]

i agree it should honestly be 12.3 F4E should be 10.7, A6E should honestly go back to 10.0 its slow crap that snaps constantly now, AH1W needs to go down to 10.3 Oh58D should be 10.0 and Ah-6M should be 9.7, Ah1F needs to go down to 9.3 and the US one needs CMs added (why tf doesn't it have them like everyone elses does?) us Blackhawk is trash and needs to go down to 10.7 where it belongs. honestly theirs like 30948093 vehicles that need BR changes/fixes, the game is pretty bad.

[@артёмлатышев-б8к]

Everything that the aim-120 has is automatically better than top Soviet aircraft

[@garrettobrien5197]

Can you play the Improved baz. It dosnt have a normal TWS. All it has is RAM

[@BryanYowell]

I got it and had a match 5 kills no deaths in a dogfight it’s fucked but if your smart with the fox3s your balling

[@tothmatyas2177]

I mean getting a harrier at top tier with AMRAAM will be interstong too.

[@HoeBreathing]

the harrier is at 12.3 tho, thats a middle ground between uptiers and downtiers. 12.7 doesn't really have a downtier rn so all you'll face is uptiers

[@Frogg-YT]

i have no idea why german mains thought this would be a good addition for germany

[@amari2509]

Almost like we asked for it years ago and at a competitive br..

[@TheSIyFox]

Well, other than the E.German Mig 29, Germany didn't really have a top tier fighter. Especially if you grinded the F4F line. It was the next logical vehicle in the line, but the BR choice that gaijin made is very questionable.

[@jonathanchaves8589]

Wan me to be honest with you? Its a historical plane and was obligatory sadly we cant change that now with this plane out of the way we can get what we really wan: the eurofighter TYPHOON

[@bencurran3204]

My germany buddy keeps going "next step for us is the typhoon" Everyone just goes you're coping because he is

[@TheSIyFox]

Now, here's a real idea: Fully add the Swiss into the tree. They have a decent BR curve, and they can jump from F5's to the F18, which would be a perfect way to implement the F18 to other tech trees as well.

[@Takeoverartist1987]

imagine a 70 year old plane being top tier.

[@Squeaky_Ben]

Thank god I have France fully grinded and am currently spading the F-15A.

[@AlexThetankI]

3:30no one talking about this moment?

[@admiral_knox6050]

Can't wait for 12.3 PL-12s on the J-8F 💪

[@Bombert54]

Just decrease multipathing, reduce match sizes and make bigger maps for top tier

[@OneMoreDesu]

Cant wait for the multipathing change. No more skill free crutches.

[@jaek__]

it's still gonna be in the game lol

[@Elite_EM]

I am now convinced that the devs 100% dont play the game

[@mihirabhyankar2277]

Germany suffers, every update

[@sea_emperour346]

Obease lead sled vs 4th gen jets

[@todduziel803]

It will be a fun plane for the people on the other team this thing is dead on arrival. F-4E has been in the game since 2020 and we are just getting this thing now and we have to fight su-27 and f-15/16 and many others that are much better then this.

[@RaodyOPS]

Germany always ALWAYS GODDAMN ALWAYS GETS SCREWED..I REGRET GRIDNING GERMANY WHEN I FIRST GOT THIS GAME 2 years ago

[@sl0doodles513]

Germany suffers gameplay

[@en_ole]

12.3 like the harriers

[@fboyg91]

i dont see the ICE being useable any higher than 12.3 and i dont see why it shouldnt be 12.0 if the tomcat is there and its not OP either. people have been saying its fine at 12.7 because missiles and FMs dont matter but those same people rage and scream when you mention how hilariously broken the F-16 flight models are. 12.0 is where i see this being the most balanced. 12.3 should be the absolute maximum.

[@IcyMan143]

I need it anyway…

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Ah, just like good old days when another fantom was top tier plane for germany...

[@nottbone_180]

Just give it 9Ms

[@vialactose5710]

Quando fazer uma jogatina com o jato, use sua melhor versão do aim-9li, porque dessa maneira e esculacho

[@_S1mba]

first thing im getting are the mica's gonna be fun forsure!

[@henrycastle6584]

Yes... But muh Phatom...

[@PilotUwU]

F4 in 12.7 or AV8 in 12.3 same shjt….

[@sonwig5186]

Maybe they will add the super modern J7 if we have this

[@dorklol2969]

i love this phantoms. would play 9/10!

[@snottytoe6957]

We already have a subsonic plane that carries IRCCM missiles, so it's only natural that we eventually get a subsonic that holds Fox 3 missiles.

[@bruhmomentum2901]

Bro doesnt know about british tornado

[@Nova4-4]

it should definately be 12.3

[@the_duckzilla5521]

Ok but like, AMRAAM + AIM-9Li makes it more than only 1.0 better than an F-4J, especially when the F-4F is the most manoeuvrable phantom

[@the_duckzilla5521]

(The F-15A should definitely be moved up, and the 12.3 AIM-9M carrier should just have them removed

[@mab2187]

Altitude needs to become accurate to ground level and not be showing sea level.

[@vincentreim8962]

I‘m gonna play it just to degrease the BR to 12.3

[@Grimmy_Grimes]

This thing should lose AMRAAMs and get pished down to 12.3 or 12.0. Only way it can be viable

[@Juho-uf8si]

12.0 f16 with aim9m's is a god damn joke, playing a viggen in an uptier gets just more fun each update.

[@general1490]

F-4s had some pretty modern armaments too... like 7m's and i think 9m's at the end of its service

[@o4karik41]

Gaijin still not biased😂

[@matythebunny]

Imma be honest. I'd rather be flying the ICE than the new Tornado or even the 11.0 F-4EJ.