We Cut 8,000 Trees - Disappointing Lesson from Deer Beds | Dream Farm w/ Bill Winke

After cutting roughly 30 acres of the 51 acres on our contract, Carsen and I are taking a short break. We sure put a lot of trees on the ground and that will pay off in better habitat for the deer down the road. But, we also learned a valuable lesson covering every inch of that slope: there are lots of deer bedding in places where they can easily see us coming and going. We are going to have to change the way we hunt this farm.
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[@Murf1802]

Bill thank you very much, 98 % of my utube feed is politics, and then a Gem comes along, your content, outstanding lifestyle, thank you for keeping it real. God bless, and always dream big.

[@bill-winke]

Thanks for the comment. Have a great day.

[@hvlineman5227]

I thought this the first time I saw the topography of your new area. Critters definitely have the advantage. Stay safe out there fellas 🇺🇸

[@bill-winke]

Thanks for the comment. I appreciate it. I underestimated the number of beds on the sidehills. I thought most of the deer would be on the ridge tops where the brush obscures their view down the slope. On the sidehills themselves, the deer can see into the valley and see us coming even if they can't see us all the way to our destination.

[@stevegermain1222]

​@@bill-winkeplenty of veg. WILL fill in😅

[@Mo75149-j]

BIG advantage

[@ronbonofiglio7654]

Bill, I was a glass contractor prior to retiring. Our first job was hanging off the side of a 42-story building repairing leaks. I was amazed at how well I could hear the crew that was off to the side and maybe 100 feet below us, and how difficult it was to yell down to them and have them hear us.

[@HuntsT]

The ground echoes their sounds, nothing echoes yours

[@bill-winke]

That is a good point. It is always easier to here sounds coming from the valley than sounds coming from on the ridge.

[@ronbonofiglio7654]

@HuntsT I don't know if that was the case on the building we worked on since at times we were 300' above the ground and I could hear my employee packing his cigarette pack and I could hear it as soon as I saw him do it.

[@joebuck120]

I’ve said for a while now those deer are watching you access the property that 4 wheeler starts up and they are gone before you even knew they where there I’d say walk where you hunt it’s great exercise and you can scout your way through your property instead of driving right past all the hot sign

[@Huntoutdoors1]

I said the same thing months ago too many hunters do not realize the game /deer use that sound at far distance as the alarm bell after attaching it to the activity time after time. .The lower the deer population the less deer that don't get spooked by it so its amplified .As where huge deer populations tend to have mor eundisturbed deer just a numbers game .That's why hunters with populations swear that it does not scare them and hunters with few deer see almost none or very few .Just about the deer numbers.

[@robertduguay689]

Bill I think you need to keep Carson around. He’s a hard worker, good hunter and is great on camera. 👍

[@bill-winke]

I agree, but it is really up to Carsen. I would never stand in his way if he sees outside opportunities.

​@@bill-winkeHow could he have outside opportunities if you stand in his way ?😂 Be safe, guys!

[@jontrappe5037]

Bill, any chance you all could re-visit some of these bedding locations in a couple of seasons after the understory recovers? Many habitat folks online show the benefit of the TSI during the summer months when everything looks lush anyways. I think it would be interesting to see 1) the changes for the late fall ground-level cover, and 2) if the deer are still choosing the bed there despite losing a bit of an advantage. Thanks for the great videos!

[@bill-winke]

Jon, I will do that. I think the beds would be completely tucked into the cover during the summer and early fall, but as the foliage drops the deer would see more and more of the bottoms below and possibly the sidehill trail we use. Early season getting by most of them would be pretty easy. Later it will be tough.

[@handlaidtrack]

Thank you for all the reasons why you are doing what you are doing. Interesting about deer beds and watching you come and go.

[@joebuck120]

I see that everywhere I go in hill country they aren’t rocket scientists but they know how to survive youre not pattering the deer they’re patterning you

[@JamesRegis-g9j]

I agree with what someone else mentioned; if you hinge cut some of those elms, it should provide some screening, and the deer LOVE browsing elm.

[@bill-winke]

Along the entry/exit route specifically for screening I would consider it. Otherwise, I am not a big fan of hinge cutting for a number of reasons, but mostly because they aren't desirable trees for most purposes and I would rather give nature the chance to replace them with other tree species or ground level browse. Thanks for the comment.

[@keithbuesing6912]

Wow! Paul Bunyon would be proud! I'm working by myself not nearly as fast. Hanging snags take so much more time. I'm learning the art of the fall. Best wishes.

[@bill-winke]

Keith, that is it. Carsen and I are much faster this year than last. Last year we wasted way too much time clearing hung trees. They are also dangerous. We are much better at knowing which trees to walk away from and how to drop them in small openings - sometimes even smaller than the tops of the trees we are cutting. As a result we are about twice as fast/efficient this year as we were last year. Just learn slow - no mistakes regarding unsafe trees. If you are not 100% sure that you can get it to the ground safely, walk away from it. There is no shame in that! Good luck.

[@alexpinnow6509]

Good episode Bill, looks like you and Carsen made quick work of that TSI.

[@bill-winke]

Alex, we sure did. Much faster than last year. I think it is related to experience and knowing how to attack each area. Also, we can hit small holes now so we spend a lot less time trying to fix hung up trees. I think I only hung three trees in 8 days and probably similar for Carsen. You can waste a lot of time (and effort) getting trees unhung, even small ones. Have a great day.

[@alexpinnow6509]

@bill-winke great stuff, feel free to reach out via our conversation if you want to get some more cedars down this winter!

[@mikejohnson2874]

I am working on doing the same on my home farm. We had a huge canopy when we first moved there, and you could see 150 yards easy in every direction. It's a lot thicker now with new oaks growing. I made one huge mistake by randomly cutting out openings. Some of the trees fell in a way that shut down a major travel corridor and altered the deer in a different direction. That is getting changed very soon. I also am focusing on creating better habitat for turkeys, especially on the nesting and getting rid of nest predators. I didn't want to only think of deer since I enjoy turkey hunting as well.

[@bill-winke]

Sounds like a great project and a great plan Mike. Good job and good luck.

[@paulbernitt4280]

Those hickory have value Bill! I love watching you in the learning process because I learn in the process. The awareness of what the deer are doing to know when you are there can be converted into a masterclass on how to set up property for access. I am focusing on removing patches in deep parts of my property with a logger. I was able to work with a professional forester to achieve very specific logging goals to enhance both compensation and enhancing deer travel. The nice part is all the cut logs will be removed, reducing excess deadfall and providing revenue for additional investments. Treetops will remain for cover. I am expecting a surge of diverse flora to emerge which will be very attractive to deer and other diverse fauna. I will replant in specific areas and maintain some open areas. I will also come back in the forest a year or two later and drop junk trees to tighten deer travel corridors into funnels.

[@bill-winke]

That sounds like a good plan. We cut maybe 50 hickory 16 inches or bigger and that is not enough to get a serious log bid. Plus, unless the mill has a specific market for the hickory, they are treated as pallet wood and that doesn't bring much money. Maybe it would be worth logging first, but this country is so fragile with the steep bluffs that I am not super excited to have a skidder in here until I am ready to take the high value walnuts (a few more years). I do like your plan. Good luck.

[@paulbernitt4280]

@@bill-winke Yes, I agree! Im just on the other side of the river from you. The greatest risks of the driftless region right now due to human intrusion are erosion, monoculture (houses here, dead soil farming here, large canopy forest here, etc) and water contamination. All are at the top of my list in making my choices. A higher and more diverse stem count in soil rich in topsoil and microflora is key to a lot of this. I encourage you to read about the driftless area and the resources/diversity it has that are not found anywhere else. Truly a special place worth preserving. Preserving the region (aka my property) preserves the health of not only the land but the flora and fauna...AKA healthier deer! #BigBuckInTheTruck2025

[@gouchmcdougal7831]

Lumber jack Bill and his assistant Carson!! Good work fellas. Luke 9:62

[@bill-winke]

Lumber Jack Carsen and his assistant Bill! Have a great day and thanks for the support.

[@jaredyoder4674]

Man Bill i bet you cut down a lot of future morel mushrooms😁...enjoy watching your content!! God bless

[@bill-winke]

You are probably right about that, but I bet as those elms rot on the ground we will have some mushrooms there also. Have a great day.

[@engfishman87]

Great video! Can't wait to see the change it makes.

[@Jay-hu1pc]

I access my land from the bottom also. I had to give one valley up and cut an access road in but it’s an area I’m not gonna tsi and make better bedding. Once I get to the top I can branch out and hit different stands. The road made a big difference this year already. Shot two nice bucks coming out into my plots during daylight because I can get in and out without them seeing me

[@lukest.pierre3568]

Maybe plant some screening cover on your access points/trails in the short term while you figure out other more long term ways to access the places you’d like. Possibly some conifers like balsam firs also- though that would take more time. But if you did something like conceal from whitetail institute on the ridge side of your trails and hugged tight to the edge of the cover you might be all set.

[@dwbowhunterable]

May have to plant shade tolerant conifers. Especially on your access routes. Perimeter access is key too.

[@markr.1547]

Yup…. They got you pegged! Hard enough harvesting a mature deer that doesn’t know it’s being hunted, almost impossible harvesting one that knows IMO especially outside the rut! You have yourself a predicament with wanting to put out lots of content and trying to harvest your target! If there’s anyone who can figure it out it’s you! Egress is just as important as ingress too! Might have to go to the extremes which I’m sure was a lot easier to do when you were younger! Not sure I’ll be sleeping overnight in blinds again anytime soon or going into stands at midnight! We do have the option to make some popcorn and watch you from the comfort of our couch! Thanks and good luck!

[@richarddean3154]

Good luck on your improvements.

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Richard. I appreciate it. Have a great day.

[@ryanfarmer5155]

I believe some farms (I have had two of them) are just not laid out for good acess no matter how hard you try. I ised to even park at the farm next to us but it hardly worked. We sold after 3 years , figured why waste time and move on. I did alot of what your doing with bedding and it wasn't enough to give me good entry and exit

[@bill-winke]

I will have to come up with a more creative entry/exit strategy as I will not sell this one unless I have to for some reason financially. I will get it figured out eventually. It may involve creating "bunkers" to sleep in on the ridges so we can access at midday on windy days and not leave until the next windy day. I have done that before and it does work, but is not really very "user friendly". Have a great day.

[@Huntoutdoors1]

Bingo its the push the deer out on the way in and out .I am glad you have now seen what I was explaining in a past post to you .Good luck ..FYI ask a land owner next to you or behind the farm for entrance rights ..

[@bill-winke]

I do have access from the top, but that is only on the north side. I own or control pretty much everything that we would hunt with a north wind or NW wind and that means coming in from the south (the bottom).

[@shaneshonda]

I think a lot of your viewers were saying the deer had patterned you this year.seems like they were correct.deer in 200ft hills are the hardest deer to pattern and they have the advantage of sight and sound.

[@Mo75149-j]

I figured they were watching you! Seen them do it for years in the river hills. Farms with hill bedding are very hard to hunt, let alone with the crazy wind currents.

[@bill-winke]

I agree. Thanks for the comment. We will get it figured out eventually, but my fear is that the solution is going to require a lot more work and possibly some sleeping on the ridges. Have a great day.

[@kapperoutdoors]

Nice work on the projects guys. Bill you didn't really say if any of your cuts are screening cuts so that the deer can't see you as easily as you noted? Or just stricly habitat openings? Thanks.

[@bill-winke]

This was just habitat work. The only thing we could possibly have done differently would have been using a few hinge cuts in certain places, but based on my experiences, the underbrush and regrowth will jump in to fill any openings we created nearly as effectively as if we had hinged it.

[@Ben_Allgood]

Side hill access it from the east by where your driveway comes in. Follow the property line on any westerly wind to that pinch at the east side of the field at the top of the ridge.

[@bill-winke]

That would work, but there are also a good number of deer using that area that bed on the slope above the driveway that would see us do that too. The only way to get this done, in my opinion, is to go straight up the bluff in one spot (probably use a ditch) so the least possible number of deer could see us). Tons of work on a hunt like that, but that might end up being the price for hunting that ridge (or we just don't hunt it). Have a great day.

[@natemihlbachler3511]

I think when you get everything cut over it will just flat out hold more deer. I've got some places that are tough to hunt because of access issues but I just hunt shallow and let the deer have most of the farm. When we cut the buck population just kept doubling for the first couple years. I think of it as like a hurricane, stay out of the middle and catch them when they swing around on the outside. I think you will also be surprised how thick it will get and how comfortable and tight the deer will hold letting you slip in.

[@bill-winke]

Yes, that is what I saw in southern Iowa. We did a very aggressive TSI cut there too on 850 acres! The farm held a much higher density of mature bucks after that cut. I think it is because as thick as it was, they didn't have to interact as often and therefore didn't battle for dominance as much. It will be interesting to see how this plays out this time, but either way, it is definitely good for the overall habitat and should benefit ruffed grouse also in future years.

[@anitafisch7558]

Something I though of is the Dallor store sells razors. Naw just kidding it's good stuff. Thanks, love your content

[@bill-winke]

No time to shave. We have more trees to cut!

[@Woodland-Gangsta]

Bill: "Today is a great day. High pressure, cold temps, northern winds at a nice clip and we are hunting a stand just downwind of a bedding area. If we get in quiet and undetected...today might be the day we see that Jordan Buck. I know this is his core area" Jordan Buck: You know, Bill is right. Today is a great day. Here they come. But what is his business with me?" Doe: I don't know but I'd bet they stay until dark like they did the last three outings. Weird behavior I would say. Totally predictable." Jordan Buck: You called it. Here they come like clockwork. Perfect timing too because I'm hungry. I think I'm hitting the bean plot tonight." Doe: "Me too, beans really pack on the protein. Wait up my legs are stiff." Bill: The conditions were perfect. I don't understand why we didn't see a mature buck. We did see thor again. He seems to find us no matter what stand we hunt in. IDK!!! They could be bedding and feeding on another part of the farm. If they are... they are feeding just out of range of the cameras. Thank you for watching Hoyt bow hunting whitetails and remember to always dream BIG."

[@bill-winke]

I am sure that has played out a few times. You have a good imagination!

[@chuckparson6712]

Just when you think you've got it figured out, the deer throw you a curve ball, WE ZIG, THEY ZAG 🤷 They are definitely smarter than most people realize

[@bill-winke]

No doubt about it Chuck. Have a great day.

[@MollyDogg1234]

I ran my saw the other day, doing about the same thing. I was freeing up several oak trees and getting sunlight to the ground. Boy was I SORE for a couple days afterwards!!

[@bill-winke]

Good for you. Yes, it is a hard workout. We went 28 straight days last year. By the end I was feeling decent, but it sure took a while to recover while constantly pounding those bluffs. This year we went just 8 days in a row and are now taking a rest break until the weather warms back up. That should make things a lot easier the second week once we get going again. Have a great day,.

[@ronmeverden5489]

Hey Bill, I noticed on the ditch cleaning video,When you were walking up you were ducking down to go under trees an branches.I was wondering,will you ever traverse that ditch with a tree stand and or anything on your back?You might want to do a dry run with what you might be if anything packing up through all those obstacles 🤔😉😀 Keep up the awesome videos If you need someone to come out and run a piece of equipment to put in that new ditch,hit me up.I’m just over in Northern Illinois by the Wisconsin / Lake Michigan area

[@bill-winke]

Thanks Ron. I appreciate it. I hope to have the stands in place on that ridge this winter so we don't have to carry anything up that ditch but our daily gear. Have a great day.

[@ronmeverden5489]

I was kinda thinking that you you mainly have your stands already in place. 🤔😉😁

[@bill-winke]

@@ronmeverden5489 They aren't yet, but they will be this winter. I have stayed out of that ridge because I was never really sure how to get in there clean.

[@Paulannear]

Accessing stands in hill country can be so hard. If you guess right though and don't spook anything, hold tight, because you're going to have a good sit if everything else lines up. So hard not to spook deer out though. I don't have a single stand I would consider easy access, every stand I have is one deer can look down and potentially see me coming. Don't have a choice sometimes

[@stevedenoyer5956]

What about planting switch grass right on the woods edge, you can hug that line on your access. Or get up top somehow into the food plots and come down into your stands, again line the plots with switch to cover your travel. It’s a permanent screen and can grow to 7’ plent6 of height. It’s hard to access rolling hills.i have the same issue

[@bill-winke]

I am still figuring it out. Because they are above they can see right over the top of the switchgrass like it's not there. I think the only real solution is something taller. I have been experimenting with hybrid willow. We planted 1,000 last year in strategic spots, but even that looses its leaves in mid-fall. Two solutions jump out at me: a ditch that goes straight up from the building or possibly one on the backside of ridge coming up through the opposite direction though some deer bed there too. Or, create a few bunkers where we can just sleep up there and only access at midday on windy days using the ditches. If a guy is really serious about this, it is tough to do it right. I spent a whole season (2021) sleeping on the ridges and that did work well, but not much fun and not as easy with a cameraman. I have a few ideas of how to make that work. I will show those this summer when we go about burying them. Have a great day.

[@neonomad6078]

@@bill-winke if there are small pockets of screen that would assist in access, I know they’re not native, but sawtooth oaks grow fast, throw acorns fast, and mine still have their leaves on em.

[@stevedenoyer5956]

@@bill-winke i have used miscanthus rhizomes too, those grow to 12' -15' tall, two rows staggered creates a solid wall after a couple years.

[@stevedenoyer5956]

@@bill-winke those hills must be pretty steep. yeah thats a tough one especially afternoon hunts.

[@daddylee4216]

Access is so important. However don't get too discouraged. As things green up and thicken up before next season I bet most of those deer will be down in the future beds you just created, not to mention they won't be able to see nearly as well when things grow back in. May take a season or 3 but you'll have a pretty good screen of cover, hopefully with deer bedded in it and not above it 🤷🏻‍♂️🤞🏼🙏🏼

[@tedrickabus2087]

Bill, why aren't you hinge cutting instead of cutting them through? Hinge cutting would be instant cover this summer. The density increase would have taken out those sightlines you mentioned.

[@daddylee4216]

@tedrickabus2087 good point i just realized that

[@natemihlbachler3511]

​​@@tedrickabus2087If you hinge cut, you still aren't killing the tree.The tree is just growing horizontal. While it is instant cover the idea is to get rid of that tree and get new diverse more palitable young growth sprouting up that can be set back and controlled with fire.

[@ronmeverden5489]

Maybe he will on the area now that you brought it to his attention.

[@natemihlbachler3511]

@@tedrickabus2087 I think you also need to remember that when you start hinging trees the deer will bed in them holding them to what you thought was going to be a screen.

[@icehog2367]

I'd be hinge cutting a big line to create a visual barrier.

[@bill-winke]

Not a bad idea. Would have to be straight up the bluff to keep the distance limited and there is a ditch that runs the full width of the sidehill basically from the buildings to the top of the ridge. We could possibly hinge cut along that. But, I am not sure how I will react when the alarm goes off and I realize I have to walk basically a half mile straight up the bluff. There better be something up there worth hunting (there hasn't been yet since buying the farm) or I might just wimp out and hunt somewhere else.

[@IceHog1970]

@@bill-winke I think you have a diamond in the rough, your hard work will yield results soon.

[@waynehumphrey8910]

I have had a few thoughts the deeper I go down the hole one of them is what do we look like going in to the woods with a tree stand back pack and the kitchen sink we spend all this money on camouflage but we are making ourselves look bigger with all the stuff we bring with us

[@bill-winke]

@@waynehumphrey8910 Definitely. I am a minimalist at heart, but this filming definitely is the opposite of that: two people, camera, camera arm, pack with more cameras and batteries, etc.

[@tylerfrederick2594]

The way that property lays out is similar to mountain ground in my area of PA. The deer almost have stadium style seating to watch you. Even if you increase the screening they are kinda above it and still can see kinda like if you have someone tall in front of you at a ball game you can still see because of the design. Need a way to sneak up an edge and slip out the top.

[@bill-winke]

Agree. I think we need to work out a couple ditches so we can stay as low profile as possible and probably we will have to sleep up there are few times if we are really serious. Thanks for the comment.

[@tylerfrederick2594]

@@bill-winkeI figured you would be sleeping up there if I know Bill Winke haha

[@marchhair01]

Good episode. Interesting insights. I'm worried that if you don't treat those stumps and about six or eight years you're going to have a real problem.

[@bill-winke]

We will come back through again next winter/spring and hit the stumps that are sprouting and the deer aren't eating (they don't eat them all but do eat some) with a herbicide. That way the deer can tell us which ones they will eat and we can kill the rest. Fortunately, they do eat most of them. Plus, we are cutting about 100-125 trees per hour each and to treat that many we would have to slow way down. This method seems the most efficient to me, as well as letting the deer have more very high quality browse. Have a great day.

[@Anthony-g9c8z]

Bill you gotta post a Turkey Hunt

[@bill-winke]

Carsen wants to film a turkey hunt here so we will probably post a couple of them. Jordan enjoys it too so we will get a few hunts up this spring. Thanks.

[@Anthony-g9c8z]

@@bill-winke Awesome! I’m looking forward to it!

[@gerardburns9273]

Couldn't you employ hinge cutting to increase the visual screen?

[@bill-winke]

It would be an option along a specific route, but even then the leaves would fall off during the mid-fall so they would only serve limited purpose for screening during the season. I need to find backdoor routes that aren't overlooked by deer or I need to set up places to sleep on those ridges so I don't have to come and go. Thanks for the comment.

[@michaelrennie4823]

I live in northern NY we have shag bark and american hickory. The deer eat both. The american hickory have smaller nuts and are preferred over shag bark. The years the oaks don't produce the deer go for the hickory.

[@bill-winke]

Man, they sure don't eat shagbark nuts here. We have those and bitternut and pignut hickory. The deer don't eat any of those. They rarely have to look far for food here. But they do really like to eat the stump sprouts from the cut hickory trees. Have a great day.

[@chrishaley71]

What's the main purpose or advantage of cutting down so many trees? Is it just to open up the canopy for others to grow and produce or does it create bedding as well? I have some hardwoods that have several small sapling thickets and I have always wanted to go in there and hinge from the inside out where the saplings abide.

[@bill-winke]

Chris, it does a number of things. Creates lots of browse for healthier deer. Keeps the bucks from interacting as much during the rut, which potentially can cause stress and even cause some of them to move out. It does make for greater security for the deer, which can also affect where they bed (creating mor bedding areas). And it makes the farm hunt bigger because the deer can't see you moving through it as far. The only potential downside is the possibility of releasing invasive plants if they are already there. If you have a lot of them you should treat them first. If not, you can likely manage them effectively later with either herbicide and/or fire. Best to get a forester on site first if you plan anything more than a small scale experiment.

[@saltybr]

It takes an extra person, but we’ve had success in places like this by not sneaking in, but riding in, then quickly and quietly dropping the person off, then riding the UTV back out.

[@bill-winke]

That would be a great plan in areas where the deer are used to some human activity. I think it would work here since we run those trails often doing food plot work, moving blinds, checking cameras, etc. But despite all that, I do think they are more sensitive to human activity in the fall and winter than they are in the summer, for example. Thanks for a useful comment.

[@Stickbow1980]

Imagine taking all this out and finding out that was actually why the deer chose your area !!! I absolutely love deer hunting and my lifes passion is turkey hunting.... But I'll never understand cutting live timber just to gain another advantage over a wild animal. Id rather see standing trees and my hunting be a lil more challenging vs modifying the forrest so its easier for myself.

[@bill-winke]

I am not taking advantage of the wildlife, I am enhancing it. I am giving them a better place to live. They gain little from mature timber except acorns, and a few other mast crops, in those trees (which we don't cut). Otherwise, what happens four feet and above is of no use to a deer. They need sunlight to reach the forest floor to regenerate browse and even encourage better tree species to replace the junk we are cutting down. We are cutting stuff with very little (if any) wildlife value. It is not going to be easier now, it is just the opposite. When the deer have little forage and browse in the timber to eat (mature forest) they are more vulnerable at food plots. If you fill the forest with food, they don't have to come out (or even move much) and are harder to kill. Stressed deer are much easier to kill than deer with no stress, but deer with no stress are healthier. Plus, improved habitat also benefits many other wildlife species. One of the main ones I am trying to bring back here is ruffed grouse. There were tons when I was a kid and now almost none. Biologists who have come by the farm have told me it is because the habitat (trees) are too mature. A younger forest will promote better grouse populations too.

[@TimMaglio]

Could you plant a plot screen on the edge of the trail hiding you from the deer beds?

[@bill-winke]

It would work until the trail gets into the woods and then you will have to depend on trees and brush as that is much better adapted to that kind of setting. It will get better as the TSI produces more thick cover around the deer, but there will always be a few that can see us because of where they bed (right on the sidehill) especially after the leaves fall from the underbrush. Thanks for the comment.

[@janitorialguy4436]

Thanks Bill, surely you can screen your travel corridors.

[@bill-winke]

It is easy to do in open ground where you have sunlight and can even do it with annuals if you want (corn, forage sorghum, etc.) but hard to screen in the timber where you are often dealing with shaded conditions. I will get it figured out.

[@Jay-hu1pc]

Get ahold of Don Burroughs from Caledonia. Get some access roads cut in spots where the deer aren’t seeing you. He’s very reasonable

[@bill-winke]

I appreciate the thought, but I am not big into making roads in this country. Besides, there is a local ordinance called the "Bluff Land Protection Act" that might have something to say about cutting trails. This bluff terrain is too unique and fragile to push around with a dozer. Have a great day.

[@Jay-hu1pc]

You would be suprised how easy a dozer cuts a trail into these bluffs. I’m not far from you at all and have the same exact terrain. Nrcs has funding for that also. I had 1700ft road going down the bluff cut in about 6 hrs

[@KGPNBK]

Be careful Bill don't give away all your secrets, you still have 21 acres to do.😂

[@bill-winke]

Carsen know! I tell him everyday that he is working circles around me - and he is. Thanks for the comment.

Yet another thing you didnt anticipate. Might be worth creating another trail leading in fromnthe other side or from the center of both bluffs. Just big enough to get an ebike or your scooters at least halfway up. If not, you better shake the cobwebs out of your bivvy tent, lol.

[@bill-winke]

Agreed. I even mentioned to Carsen a couple of times that we need to plan on sleeping in the woods a few times this fall. We will try to find new ways into those ridges undetected, but it will be really tough no matter what we come up with. It is just a tough terrain type to hunt - especially from below and since the farm faces south (all drainages go south) it is even harder to access with a north or northwest wind because you have to come from the south (below the deer).

[@archersexton1009]

You might consider doing a clear cut section on 1 of the other bluffs you have.

[@bill-winke]

The whole farm will get it eventually. We still have two more years of TSI contracts to complete even after the one we are working on now. So, just about every area will get some treatment. Thanks for the comment.

[@TheJbwRolltide]

Would it help to cut some of the trees higher maybe chest high so that the stumps are tall enough to help block their sightline. As others have said, I would plant some type of grasses in the areas that you cut.

[@bill-winke]

Nature will fill those holes very quickly in this country. It will be so thick you can't see through the areas we cut in just one or two years. We just need to make sure that what grows is the right stuff and that is where a regular fire through that area will keep it from turning into non-native invasive plants and keep small trees from canopying and starting the process of shading the ground all over again. Thanks for the comment.

[@TayTay2247]

Bill how are you tackling the Oak wilt issue plaguing iowas timbers?

[@bill-winke]

We have not seen it here. Not sure why. Fortunate in that way.

[@michaellewis7117]

are you leaving them all on the ground or are you going to clean some of it up?

[@bill-winke]

Leaving them. Too much work to try to clean them up on this steep terrain. Plus, most of what we are cutting is "soft" hardwoods that will decay quickly. Within five years most of this will be fertilizer for the next round of vegetation to take its place. Have a great day.

[@kennethtomczak8650]

Super interesting stuff Bill but one has to wonder what the end goal is in cutting down 8000 trees in such a small area. Big, mature bucks walked that land for thousands of years without any "improvements".

[@hauk22]

Those trees would have been thinned by periodic fire that has been removed from the landscape. What these habitats become now, without human intervention, are far from "natural."

[@bill-winke]

That is not true at all. For generations this country was burned almost annually. When I was a kid there were ruffed grouse all over the place and now there are very few. The reason is the over-maturing of the timber. No one clear cuts and no one burns now. I grew up here. Big bucks didn't walk this country all the time. In fact, I am not even sure there was an open season until the 1960s. Not enough deer prior to that. There is always a need to improve mature timber because it is not an ideal environment for many wildlife species. The goal is to create more of an "early successional" forest with a good mix of habitat types and lots of cover for grouse and forage/browse for deer. That means getting the sunlight to the ground and regularly resetting the understory with fire. It is a lot of work, but that is what produces the best wildlife habitat.

[@nlfisher6432]

Bill, does this TSI work payout better then having a logger do all that and getting the timber value out of it? Have you had good luck with your Stihl equipment? Do you have several chains or are you doing alot of sharpening every day after cutting?

[@bill-winke]

You could probably do both. Do a harvest first and then pay the logger and still utilize the TSI payout from the NRCS programs. You would have to look into that. I just don't want anyone on this farm with a log skidder. Plus, 90% of what we cut wouldn't have timber value and even then it would pallet wood in this local market. It would be awesome firewood, but I am not aware of anyone wanting this much wood or willing to do the work required to get it off these steep slopes. Plus, I actually enjoy cutting down trees. We have had great luck with the Stihl saws. We have just the basic Farm Boss models but I may upgrade to more power in the future, though we really don't need it. We sharpen probably twice per day, and get a new chain maybe once per week per saw (at the most). If you get good at sharpening, a chain will last a long time and cut really well. Good luck.

[@nlfisher6432]

Thank you for the reply Bill and all the wealth of knowledge you are able to share. I have been bow hunting for 26 years now but you have helped me learn so much by watching your channel the last few years. I have been able to successfully harvest a nice buck the last 4 out of 5 years. Many of your thoughts have helped me with my approach on my property in central Wisconsin. Thanks and good luck with your new game plan on the Jordan buck. I've been waiting to see you start getting a little more aggressive with getting near his bedding grounds. Take care!

[@bill-winke]

@@nlfisher6432 Thanks and congrats on your success.

[@timmytim6427]

Don't wanna rub it in but i said along time ago i felt u guys scared way more deer than u realized. Good luck

[@bill-winke]

They are bedding more on the sidehills (at least on that one) than I had thought. Most areas the deer bed mostly on the ridge where they would have a harder time seeing down because of the roll of the terrain and the cover.

[@toddshippee7162]

Easy solution

[@ST-xx9rt]

As a firewood user and hoarder. I have a difficult time watching. As a deer hunter, I'm fascinated. Is there any chance of planting conifers?White spruce? The deer don't browse on them. It would take 15 years before they thickened up enough to create a barrier? I look forward to seeing what you figure out when it comes to a stealthy approach

[@bill-winke]

I have planted 1,000 hybrid willows and tons of oak trees on the old pasture ground along the bottom of the valley. That will eventually create a screen down there and the TSI work will eventually create thicker undergrowth on the sidehills, but there will always be some deer in a position to see us come up that ATV trail even with all those steps. We are going to need a better entry/exit route - probably have to clean out at least one ditch on that slope to get up there on foot. I am not getting any younger but I don't see another way to basically get by all the deer.

[@ST-xx9rt]

@bill-winke we are a bit luckier because of our naturally occurring, balsam fur and white spruce. They make such a thick wall to cover our movement. I'm also lucky because we don't have such steep terrain to work through. I'm anxious to see how All your work turns out. Almost as much as watching your hunts. Thank you

[@bill-winke]

@@ST-xx9rt Thanks. I appreciate the support. It will be interesting, but I have confidence the hunting will keep getting better here. Have a great day.

[@transamguy9073]

8,000 trees is alot. Bill are you able to screen in your access with switchgrass or something

[@bill-winke]

The lower stuff we can screen with tree plantings. We planted 1,000 hybrid willows last spring. But that will only get us from the building to the start of the ridge timber. From there we will be visible to at least some deer on every trip, especially later in the season when the vegetation is mostly gone from the brush. I need to spend a few months figuring this one out. Thanks for the comment.

[@transamguy9073]

@ what about hinge cutting along the trail just to let it grow up

[@bill-winke]

@@transamguy9073 That is actually a good idea. We just need to figure out which way we will come in since that trail is to big and too long to hinge the whole way. We are going to have to walk up that bluff at some point. Thanks for the comment.

[@transamguy9073]

@ no problem. Enjoy watching your videos

[@lonniechartrand]

Bill, don't fret over the deer seeing your access. I think you do not realize how THICK the ground vegetation will be, limiting the deer seeing you. Some side screening can help too. I am sure you already know this

It will be alot better when the saplings are head height, but that's 4 years away and not something Bill wants to contemplate at this point. Bill is a serial killer. We could hear some of his frustration this season. If his deer would do what the Drury's deer do and regularly come out of the timber into the food plots, but even when Bill and crew stayed low, they (shooters) weren't coming down during daylight. Those bucks weren't seeing them get into the blind/stand from up there.

[@bill-winke]

I agree. It will definitely get better and "hunt bigger" when the underbrush grows in to fill those opening we created with the TSI. Have a great day.

[@Mariposaland]

It will be interesting to see how the deer respond to the habitat work this next season. You certainly didn’t do anything to make yourself more visible once the new growth occurs. Good luck in 2025.

[@bill-winke]

That's true. Most of the year we will be OK. Once the leaves come off in late October and early November we may start to become more visible though. Thanks for the comment.

[@michaelrennie4823]

I have a question. Why do you cut the hickory when the oaks don't produce the hickory usually do. Where i hnt the deer realy hit the hickory. Especially the American .

[@bill-winke]

We don't have American. We have bitternut, pignut and shagbark and the deer don't eat those. Thanks for the comment.

[@jbilly24]

While hickory has some benefits to wildlife, it's not a preferred food for deer as much as acorns. They can also become too thick in a lot of midwestern timber stands. What's an "american"?

[@VitaliyMonastyrev]

It is hard to judge not knowing what exactly going on the ground, but from aerial it looks like property really lacks structure and topology. It looks like you are adding cover - but it is pretty much all the same throughout the hillside with no obvious route for deer to take and no no-deer zones for access.

[@bill-winke]

I am not sure you could create a no deer zone in this country. It is mostly cover and rough and generally the deer travel is fairly predictable based on the terrain. I think I will need to clean out a couple of ditches to get up that slope and possibly hinge cut some trees along the sides if the ditch isn't deep enough to hide us. That kind of access is rough going - steep. Thanks for the comment.

[@Inglewood510]

Lots of camping fire wood there. Or do you just burn it off

[@bill-winke]

A lot of will rot and I will take a small bit for firewood around the buildings, but around here, there are millions of trees. No one wants for firewood. We will eventually burn it to get rid of some of the smaller stuff, but the larger logs will have to rot. Fortunately, what we cut were trees that tend to rot very fast so in four or five years almost all of those snags will be a lot smaller. Thanks for the comment.

[@KenHicksJr]

I'm trying to get a timber company to gather my trees for pulp. HOPEFULLY I can get some money to get a forest management plan for eqit.

[@bowlingmotorsportsbowling5990]

A man that cuts his own wood get warm twice👉

[@bill-winke]

Good one! I need to start burning wood in that building. I now have many lifetime supplies of wood on the ground. Have a great day.

[@nicschaalma3508]

Can I ask why your doing tsi. Wasting income a you could get for a logging. Rather than having a logger do this work for you?

[@bill-winke]

Most of what we are cutting is too small for a logger to take and I am not ready to have a commercial harvest of oak and walnut off the place. That means the trees I would be selling would be about 10% of the stuff we are cutting down and these would go to a pallet mill. Pallet wood is not very profitable and definitely not worth having a log skidder on the farm tearing things up, not to mention my need to micro-manage the project (I have done enough timber harvests to know you can't just turn them loose). Plus, I would still have to cut the smaller stuff that also contributes to the canopy. What I would get having a logger come in is not worth the hassle and the mess they would make. Plus, I am doing this through a government contract to improve woodlands and oak regeneration so I can get at least Carsen's fee covered. That works pretty well - plus when you do it yourself, you end up with exactly what you want. And it is an excuse to do some very intense scouting. Have a great day.

[@nicschaalma3508]

@ just Curious your reason for not being ready for a commercial harvest of the bigger stuff. Seems like a timber harvest and opening your canopy up would be the missing piece in getting that farm to hunt better. Would put more daytime browse. Make them feel safer and help you access without being seen. So my question really is. Why are you not ready? Don’t you want the hunting to improve? Or why do you feel it wouldn’t improve the hunting ?

[@bill-winke]

@@nicschaalma3508 The TSI is making a lot of openings too - enough to really change this farm. I have owned a lot of land over the years and done a lot of timber cuts along the way. A commercial cut is not always a positive outcome. You also have the mess made by log skidders and that is only going to be worse in this steep terrain. Not wanting to do a harvest is also about the size of the trees and the return they produce just standing there. We have a good number of 16 to 20 inch walnuts that are gaining about 7 to 8% value per year just standing there growing. I will cut them some day, but it is like having the money in the bank making 7%. That is a pretty good return. Plus, I am probably not going to cut many oaks because they are so nice to look at and this is one of the best oak forests in the area and I want to keep it that way. Granted, that is a bit of a tree-hugger reason, but I do really like to look at (and hunt near) those giant oak trees. I will take a few when the time comes to cut the walnuts.

[@nicschaalma3508]

@ we all know making it thicker will help your hunting. I just want to see you prioritize bucks over bucks $$. Selfishly of course. We want to see that farm become what it could. Thicker cover and daytime browse is what I feel would make it better. Either way excited to see your journey.

[@MelvinBontrager-kp5hj]

How nuch do u get paid for doing tsi work

[@bill-winke]

There are different programs through the NRCS that the landowner can apply for that helps to pay for the work. The amounts can vary depending on the program. If you are doing the work for the landowner, you will have to negotiate that based on local rates, but it is probably similar to what you would get for factory work. Good luck.

[@nathanschool2]

Why not log it off?

[@bill-winke]

I don't want to take the walnut or oak yet and those are the main species here that are worth anything. The rest would be pallet wood and I wouldn't get enough to justify the management and time delay for that type of cut - not to mention the damage those log skidders would do in this type of terrain. Just not worth the trouble, plus there are government programs that pay for this kind of habitat work, so I am not having to pay Carsen out of pocket. Lots of work, but not a bad deal, overall. Thanks for the comment.

[@nathanschool2]

@ That makes sense, thank you for the explanation. What program are you working through?

[@bill-winke]

@@nathanschool2 It is the CSP program. The county NRCS can help you with that. Good luck.

[@reggiesmith8550]

Is any of this timber you are cutting marketable. Seems like you are cutting a lot of trees with no monetary return. I understand TSI but you could it seems a waste.

[@bill-winke]

Most of what we are cutting is too small for a logger to take and I am not ready to have a commercial harvest of oak and walnut off the place. That means the trees I would be selling would be about 10% of the stuff we are cutting down and these would go to a pallet mill. Pallet wood is not very profitable and definitely not worth having a log skidder on the farm tearing things up, not to mention my need to micro-manage the project (I have done enough timber harvests to know you can't just turn them loose). Plus, I would still have to cut the smaller stuff that also contributes to the canopy. What I would get having a logger come in is not worth the hassle and the mess they would make. Plus, I am doing this through a government contract to improve woodlands and oak regeneration so I can get at least Carsen's fee covered. That works pretty well - plus when you do it yourself, you end up with exactly what you want. And it is an excuse to do some very intense scouting. Have a great day.

[@bullgiraffe]

I can't stand to see all that firewood on the ground.

[@bill-winke]

Man, come and get some! Getting it out might be a bit of a problem though. Consider the steepness of the slopes. Even locals that heat with wood don't mess with places like this. Too hard to get to. On flatter ground it might even be a secondary market if you were set up right. Have a great day.

[@79TEOG]

Time to sell and move on, dont want to waste too many good years on this farm if its not a productive property, not all land is created equal. Id rather have 80 acres in the right area than 1000 acres thats not any good. Jmo

[@bill-winke]

I agree with you, but most of the country up here is just like this farm, and I do want to be in this area. It is where I grew up. I will get it figured out. Just a good challenge. Have a great day.

[@williamshaver5524]

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. Dont forget the man's prayer: im a man and I can change if I have to, I guess.

[@bill-winke]

I do love that one. I am learning to live by it. Have a great day.