We Explain Why Cheap Drivetrains and Alloy Bikes Are Best | Pinkbike Weekly Show Ep 3

This week on the show we cover the release of the new EXT Aria Shock, Classifieds Powershift Hub, and Cannondale's new Habit trail bike. We also welcome Pinkbike's newest tech editor, Dario DiGiulio, to the team. Dario goes on the stand and explains why he thinks alloy bikes and 11 speed drivetrains are the way to go.
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[@davekal]

So refreshing to hear people talk about gear that's not always the latest and greatest.

[@aaronburela432]

Oh hell yeah Dario is a good reviewer. I've seen him on loam wolf great guest.

[@pinkbike]

We love Dario. He really knows his stuff. So much so, we were nervous to include him alongside Henry just incase the contrast was too severe.

[@pmowe]

@@pinkbike I was hoping he would be Henry’s replacement

[@aaronburela432]

@@pinkbike I can see that concern 😂, but that was a great show! I hope to see Dario contribute more on the video content side. Thanks PB

[@pinkbike]

@peterhall Rude.

[@theepicridecom]

+1 for the GX 11 speed. Dario is 100% correct about everything he said.

[@christenrten]

Absolutely. I've been through countless Eagle chains, derailleurs, and cassettes, but the GX 11 speed on my old trance is still ticking over just fine.

[@marksampson5522]

Tried the exact set up he suggested,E13 was rough changing gears but it never missed a beat! Rough but worked. My gx 12 speed is constantly dieing, 2/3 derrailieurs easy

[@ericenright2578]

+2 on the GX 11spd. Great alternative to shimano 12spd on e-bikes that tend to wear very easily

[@alexthemtbr]

Stoked for Dario, actual reviews you can trust now 🙌🏽

[@michaeledwards5241]

Not bad on the bike as well👌😎

[@letsgo_inc]

Dario from the Loam Wolf?! Poached

[@markel_mtb]

I have a shimano xt 11s and it is super reliable, i have had it for 2 years ( in a nukeproof mega from 2013) without any issue. Good shifting, enough gear ratio, and just all i need. I also think alloy is the best option for most of us because carbon is a lot more expensive and it doesn't give that much advantage for the price. So yeah, i totally agree with you

[@tuftschristopher]

This. Did a garbaruk 11-50 cassette for extra range

[@WesMacaulay]

I have the GX 11 speed and had FOMO. Till now. Thanks Dario 😁

[@tahoeebikes]

Dario is a man you can trust

[@jankyjoe4571]

Super sick to see Henry and Dario on pinkbike 🤙

[@johnfinelli8727]

I watched the Loam Wolf Enduro shootout for 2022 and Dario had me super impressed ! He’s on another level !

[@LeviAirRifleChronicles]

Microshift Advent for me .... I've smacked the heck out of it. And for me its like the old Energizer Bunny. "It just keeps going and going and going! "

[@EmyrDerfel]

I bought a few XT and XTR 10s mechs and shifters off eBay when the 11s versions were new in 2014/2015. Still running great.

[@MrRicho32]

I totally agree about the gx drivetrain 100%. I have one that’s lasted over 4 years.

[@s4-mtb678]

I SO AGREE WITH ALL THIS!! I got myself an aluminium frame making only sure the geometry was there, and spent the rest in top shelf components. I don't typically abuse wheels so my M1700 work just fine. Still coming at 34 lbs with pedals and enduro tires. Ps. I LOVE the 11 speed XT, I ran it on my enduro bike for years and I still run one on my XC bike! Great episode!

[@sprousaTM]

I have been using the "old" GX Axs and mostly Shimano SLX, XT, Deore 12x Drivetrains in the last years. For me the entrypoint Deore drivetrains is probably the best I have used so far. It is of course heavier than the much more expensive XT oder XTR, but it shares almost all the features. And realistically crashing a deore derailleur costs less than 30€ here in Germany plus maybe a new hanger. I really see absolutely no reason for a freaking unbreakable XX or XO AXS direct mount derailleur that costs 20 times as much. Set aside the costs for the needed 500€ XO cassette and 100€ chain. The new AXS might switch gears better and looks absolutely stunning, but the advantages for me do not justify the costs.

[@MisspentSummers]

Great to see our books on your table. Thank you!

[@tomquintana4186]

I love my GX 11 speed derailleur w/xo1 shifter and E-13 cassette set up!

[@jakobbeelar]

Fixing up a Klein Mantra Pro. Found a 20 year old 10 speed derailleur that works great, just need to replace the cage spring since it's lost tension over the years. Old is gold, I ride three MTBs that are 20+ years old, and I ride them hard.

[@solomtb]

Seems like a dream job and the dude just landed one!

[@bens9151]

11 Speed is absolutely my choice... A) cost effective, works well enough. B)Chains are cheaper. C)avoid the 50+ cog, and your chains will not be as picky thus last longer. D)this one is about preference, but for me, I prefer the slightly bigger steps between gears.

[@davidkawczynski]

I'm using an 11-speed NX cassette. It's all steel - not the lightest but definitely the strongest. Coupled w a GX 11-speed derailleur (the clutch is incredibly springy once adjusted) w crispy shifting.

[@eliasdanieli5461]

I have never desired a newer derailleur since i first tried GX 11speed. I'll continue speccing it (with a 11-46 cassette) on every build from now on.

[@micheandmikey]

The Bellingham connection = NOICE! Funny, I have 4244 miles on my Shimano XT drive train......but I service mine every other ride, and yes, I live in Bellingham.

[@Charlie_NZ]

Ran a GX 11sp for 5 years on my transition patrol without having to replace it. Went through two sets of jockey wheels and broke two rims in that time without damaging the derailleur. In its final year it did rattle itself loose and strip the hanger but the derailleur was still fine and a new hanger fixed it up again. Can't beat durability, cost and availability

[@Ozak42]

I agree about 11 speed. I’ve been running mine for 4 years without fault. I think that the new Link Glide stuff looks perfect. I’ve ridden it and it works brilliantly. I think that might be my future over any 12 speed stuff. That’s if my current 11 stuff actually breaks, including a still very much working clutch.

[@fairyhardcore]

I run Advent 9 speed. It's cheap as chips and lasts and lasts. I love it

[@danielgrafik]

XT 11-speed shifter and deraileur here - Garbaruk chain wheels (they don't clog up as much, and feel more "solid" when shifting). Agree with the "more barrel adjustment" - wide range/window of "good enough" shifting. Chains does feel more solid than a 12 (might be placebo?). Cheap, lot's of stuff to be bought second hand still. And I live in the flatest country in the world, så can get away with 46 tooth as climbing gear. This is on a Ti-hardtail. Never dropped a chain, never broke a chain, never had ghost shifting 🤷

[@casperfabia]

great stuff

[@klunker289]

thank you

[@mikehosfelt6016]

excellent !

[@kyleslater5245]

I’m with him for 11 speed. I’d prefer m5100 though as I don’t like sram shifting. And don’t ride in the wet so the clutch issues are not a thing for me. My reason for 11 speed is mostly I’m crap at tuning 12 speed and 11 is plenty enough for me.

[@alexanderfagerstrom2883]

Used to ride 11 speed gx on my old bike but built up my new bike with microshift AdventX and it has been great! 10 speed Chains are cheaper and the cassette doesn’t wear out as fast. Makes a lot of sense if you ride in more or less wet conditions 8-9 months of the year with minimal service. If/when I end up destroying my derailleur replacing it is cheap. Plenty of range for my riding. Don’t really notice any difference to 11-speed out on the trail.

[@aaronjohnson7607]

Dario is awesome

[@letour32rr]

Agree with GX11 being the best. I’m still running it on my XC race Specialized Epic with a Sunrace CSMX8 11-46 cassette and it works beautifully. I also have a Shimano XT 11 drivetrain on my hardtail and the shift quality is nowhere near as smooth.

[@LawrenceWampler]

Stoke to see Dario on Pinkbike!!

[@haydenstacpoole7987]

100% agree with the 11 speed argument. Run a 11sp xt cassette & drlr, 12 speed chain and deore cranks on my hardtail. Stuff just won't die...

[@BlueGoose29]

love the dog

[@pinkbike]

His name is Cruz and he is perfect.

[@uldi1s]

I fully agree with the concept, but I'll up you one: Microshift. Used to run SLX but I grew up tired of always micro adjusting it. And too many gears! always shifting 2-3 at a time. 10 speed is enough, and can't fault Microshift Advent-X, just shifts perfectly all the time 😎

[@mravocadoman2999]

I’ve sold 2 separate eagle drivetrains (nx and gx) to get back into long cage 11 speed xt, that is in my opinion the best drivetrain out, got a 11-50T cassette and I’ll never go back

[@unclewickedmtb2023]

11 spd X01 cassette and XTR derailleur. Magical

[@DaBinChe]

Funny 20+ years ago I was saying the same about 9spd and 8spd. Tried 9spd and went back to 8spd, much less finicky to adjust, better mud tolerance etc.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

No need to adjust anything after initial install with an electronic group. No cables to stretch

[@christenrten]

Henry with the cheeky f-bomb 😂

[@lucasbhogal3790]

I think Supre Drive with Ethirteen Helix cassette and classified Powershift Hub would be the ultimate Drivetrain for gear range, and Raaw have realy done a great job with their fraes, i also like Nicolai. I own a tyee but i wouldn't argue it is especially good in anything

[@wx2999]

Unfortunately Supre Drive still has a lot of weight where it doesnt belong, isn't very durable, and is only compatible with single pivot IIRC. Better option is a Internally Geared Hub in the front triangle, a gearbox in the front triangle, or the Williams Racing Products dérailleur gearbox.

[@LagBomer]

If we all agree on the 11 speed system as been lighter, more durable and more effective, why is it that we are afraid to have it in all our bikes? I have an 11 speed hardtail, just great. I really want to make the move, but it is hard for me to start spending and swaping the cassette, shifter etc. Of the other bikes. We need a Support Group for that, to accept ourselves and be able to be happy with the facts and who we are. To with what is real, even when it is not popular. Great talk show.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I've converted all my 11sp shifters(SRAM) with 12sp ratchets. 13sp and 14sp will be doable too when it comes. Definitely worth the effort once your cassette wears out

[@rotaryjesus9606]

I love my raaw madonna, best bike I've ever owned and I'm glad to see it get praised here (AMA). That said... I'm not impressed by the helix cassette shifting or longevity... maybe their 11 speed is better than the 12 speed I have... I did enjoy 11 speed while I had it though. 30t + 10-46t was enough on my trail bike but I really want a 50-52t on my DH casing 37lb+ bruisers on the long days (5000'+ ascent).

[@jameswillemsen2609]

Box prime 9 for sure 👌 what do you need other than 1 uppies gear and a downies gear 🤷

[@david5haw]

Chaps, I couldn’t agree more, SRAM 11 speed is the best. I bought a Whyte e160rs in November 2020. It came with an Eagle XO 12 speed drivetrain that lasted about 6 months. The cassette was shot. (Why 12 speed on an EMTB , I don’t know?) I swapped it out with a SRAM XO 11 speed from a broken Cube Stereo bike I bought in 2017. I’ve pretty much been running that same cassette and derailleur since. I’ve changed the chain once before it was too stretched. The Eagle 12 speed is on my Bird Aeris 140 (I built up from bits from my broken Cube) with a new cassette. Oh how I hate the Eagle 12 speed, compared to the durable smooth shifting 11 speed.

[@Jdem9]

I am currently running deore setup right now so I can't say much but that it's good. My dad rides his bike everyday (trek slash) with a gx and it's bulletproof. Ps he never takes care of his bike properly

[@crankshoptv8141]

10spd XTR derailleur, Saint shifter, 11-42 Sunrace cassette.

[@alloutprodux]

I'm getting creeped out -- I'm on a stumpy evo alloy with 11 sp GX drivetrain with e-13 cassette!! He's in my head man!!!

[@45graham45]

I kept cracking aluminium frames but have never cracked a carbon frame so I'll stick to carbon. XT 11 speed is still good for me.

[@ianiscaratti4924]

seems that my orange with slx drivetrain is perfect

[@johnnylloyd4487]

These 2 specific bikes. 2023 polygon siskiu T7 vs 2023 Vitus Mythique VR. Which one is the better buy please???

[@pinned91]

I ditched Eagle a while back after smashing a couple. I was running sram XX1 and XO1 11 speed 11-42 for a long time also but recently switched to shimano XT 11 speed 11-46 with a 30t and im loving the shifting and the gear range is just right. The jump between a couple of the gears can be a bit annoying. The first mech got smashed into the back wheel within a month, so I guess the smashing mechs part can't be avoided. And the XX1 cassette was real lightweight, compared to the XT. But I like the feel of the XT and so far the chain has stayed on. I also think a slightly wider XT chain is stronger than the skinny eagle chain.

[@mrmotomoto]

@@jeffreydzialo idk I think a wide moto chain is surely stronger than a narrow bicycle chain 😜

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@mrmotomoto are you running a moto chain on your mountain bike? SRAM and shimano's 12sp chains are stronger and more durable. They could put that tech(much harder pins)in their 11sp but they won't.

[@PeakTorque]

I just bought a deore 12sp chain, and deore BB for 40GBP. Combined with immersive waxing that's pretty much all you need.

[@janeblogs324]

SLX chain and quicklink is 50aud, $33usd. Hard to beat in 12s

[@NDemanuele1]

I agree, the eccentrics definitely need improving! The kind of $$$ we spend on these babies bearings and bushings should be 1000% waterproof and maintenance free or at least stupid easy to maintain. I'm on a fancy Carbon bike and may go to Alloy next to save a little $$. Although I love Carbon....LOL.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

All these components are easy to maintain. Mountain bike suspension can be a pain but that's not true for groupos

[@158158cow]

XT 11-speed shifter/derailleur paired with either the SLX 11-46T and 32T ring or SRAM 10-42T (steel!) and 30T ring have been great to me. Steel chain rings are also superior to aluminum - cheaper and last longer

[@HannyDart]

for a 29" or 650b rear wheel?

[@158158cow]

@@HannyDart 27.5 all day, every day. Not a fan of 29ers, honestly

[@bens9151]

Oh, and Henry. I watch a lot of your stuff...I feel like you are my friend. Do you want to come over for coffee?

[@AndrewVanwinkle-hn2kc]

Do you guys know what the best affordable large mountain frame is I snapped mine casing a jump today

[@tomasstraka5244]

I like how many people tell you to not praise everything that industry puts out, then they praise the transmission to the heavens, while it costs as much as a whole ass bike .....

[@joeblack4026]

Ive got 12speed xt drivertrain and after year , shifter is not working , had to replace it, the shifting is impossible to adjust, it just doesnt work, pretty sad story. Agree , never had such problems with 11 speed drivetrains.

[@clothshorse]

Totally on the 11sp bandwagon… even run a 10sp zee for the same reasons. Bombproof, cheap, super compact. #myotherbikeisasinglespeed

[@Ganiscol]

11 Speed SRAM XG-1150 full-pin steel cassette, GX derailleur, steel chainring and an 8 year old XO shifter gives me as little trouble as possible. The thing that usually goes first is the derailleur. Hence why they all can keep their expensive money drain stuff. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@jimmyz5831]

My SRAM GX works as well as any drive I have. $100-$150 if it gets crushed.

[@markgolding8946]

slx 1x 10 perfect

[@marcelpetoulachi3870]

Couldn't agree more about shimano clutch that ALWAYS fail... Hey guys what's the secret grease you use to solve this ??

[@michaelmichaelagnew8503]

I like my alloy but I would at least go mid tier on the Drivetrain. Preferably Shimano XT just for reliability, durability and ease of use and rarely have to realign it.

[@hardtailparty]

I'd even be thrilled with a wide range 5-7 speed drivetrain. If I were racing xc or lots of road, I can see the advantage of micro changes between gears, but for where I live, a wide range 5-7 speed would be just fine for me.

[@mcmarshallcluhan6884]

I feel the same way sometimes, my riding is very up or down, techy, not really dictated by cadence. I've been eyeballing the Microshift Acolyte 8speed cassette & maybe a DH shifter. Just having the burly chain and less finicky indexing would be awesome

[@hardtailparty]

@@mcmarshallcluhan6884 I've got an acolyte drivetrain I need to test and compare it to advent x. I like advent x until it kisses a rock, then I can never get it to shift reliably again after that.

[@emilymcbride5435]

Darioooooooooooooo

[@Mediarahan003]

Low key though. The NX 11 speed der is the only one sram gave the type 3 clutch to. So the dream is X01 shifter, NX derailleur, leonardi/eThirteen cassette.

[@TundeEszlari]

Amazing video.

[@wx2999]

The only good thing about the Classified system is the cassette-freehub interface. Other than that it's basically garbage unless you are building an aero touring road bike.

[@MrJazazello]

Next episode about the brakes 🍿🍾

[@harrie205]

3:40 Pinion does not use Planetary gears

[@williamvardy2753]

What about something like the kindernay hub?

[@thingswelike]

I smashed my X1 11sp mech and swapped the whole lot to 12sp GX because hype. It put me off SRAM forever. Shimano ever since.

[@AverageJoe97]

What length Hope cranks?

[@IIISentorIII]

?cranks Hope length What

[@octodadmtbmartyrichards2862]

Short cranks and micro shift 9 speed 🕺

[@robertg4249]

2.1 sram derailleur is adjustable if you know

[@45graham45]

Socks & sandlals!!! 😂😂

[@m4tt12]

12:33 had my i9 GR315 carbon wheelset for 2 years. Just had to get the rear trued for the first time. Huge carbon rim advocate here! Everyone else in my home town is still slumming it with DT Swiss alloy rims.

[@user-dj7cc2kc6z]

When will pinkbike start a DH series ?

[@TeddyParker]

I really apologize but all I can hear when I look at Dario is the SNL song "DO THE CREEP AHHHHHHHHHHH"

[@pinkbike]

Brutal.

[@camwells9726]

I’ve had a mixture of carbon and alloy frames , and I am an alloy fan in the sense that i just get very little benefit with carbon and have no hesitation going down the alloy route . But in saying that I am on carbon atm , picked up a nukeproof mega frame with an ext shock at a great price and am loving it right now .

[@jasonkroll2735]

Hate cheap flexible drivetrains...gotta have top level. Aluminum frame ...that's fine..

[@lanehartwig6917]

I have a box Prime 9 drivetrain. All the range. 9 gears. While I don’t have back to back testing. I have no discernible difference between it and the gx 12 speeds I was used to. In my opinion people are sleeping on them. Hard

[@davecahill6579]

Shimano m5100, 11-52, with shifter, chain and derailleur, reliable and costs less than a 12 speed cassette.

[@skippylegrandgourou2069]

The DH GX derailleur is a POS, cracked 3 of them.

[@SpineShank7]

Counterpoint... XX1 cassette is gold. I rest my case.

[@pinkbike]

Alright, you win.

[@DW-10]

I just wish Shimano had made a 11-46 cassette without the huge 37-46 final step. Shift quality was good, but it destroyed your rhythm. SRAM made an 11 spd drivetrain. Shimano made a 10 spd drivetrain with a bailout gear. I ended up running a Sunrace due to HG freehub. But would run a 10-42 1175/1195 and chainge my chainring feom 34 to 32 before I went 12 speed.

[@davea8346]

Get some mic booms!

[@1GayMTBr]

I’ll take a Microshift 10 speed over SLX. Saves weight and works well at a cheaper price.

[@anthonywalters7434]

I have a 2021 GT Force 29 Alloy. I abused that thing for a year and a half before taking it into my local shop for a full service and brake bleed. I had been keeping it mostly clean but didn’t touch the bearings at all. The owner (who’s awesome) tore down my bike, checked all the bearings, bled the brakes, etc. and had it back to me in a week because “your bearings were pretty much mint, the only thing that really needed a bit of work was the drivetrain” For reference I’m running a Sram NX Eagle and it’s a load of garbage 99% of the time. The bike’s been running incredibly smoothly outside of the horrible drivetrain performance since new bike day.

[@ShoneDaddy]

I hatred Sram GX eagle, switched to Shimano XT and I’m loving it. I’ll probably never ride Sram again.

[@anthonywalters7434]

@@ShoneDaddy I’m going to try out Box seeing as I’ve snapped 2 ten speed chains and 2 12 speed chains over the course of five years. Maybe 9 speed will work for me.

[@Ryan-mv5wi]

Cannondale just don't like doing what everyone else they went from being pain to love 😂

[@TheyForcedMyHandLE]

Love it if the commentary bias would shift a bit more towards the guest.

[@camerond9941]

11 speed is best. run a 28T chainring, save weight, more clearance.

[@qualm43]

DUDE! A blue tooth internally shifting rear hub? This is the FIRST legitimate argument for having wireless drivetrains.

[@crislee4057]

I have had MANY issues with the GX……… „without Data you’re just another person with an opinion!“

[@IIISentorIII]

You mean just like you?

[@coreytarducci36]

11 speed is all you need

[@Jabbatan]

Been missing the f1 podcasts the last few races 😭😭😭