We Review Each Others Bikes: Prototype Vs. Boutique Vs. Mainstream

Henry, Kaz and Dario are back with another episode of roasting each other's bikes. This time it's Kaz's Raaw Madonna V3 vs. Dario's Frameworks vs. Henry's Orbea Occam LT.
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[@HUKIT.]

“It looked like a 7th graders bike” was proper funny.

[@Bob_Shy_132]

Lololololol

[@C4Shii]

Raaw all day. Simple, effective and it looks stunning.

[@ArmaniFlyHigh]

My pick is def the Raaw Madonna.

[@andyboy198577777]

I really like these bike reviews where you rode each others whips! Really cool!

[@greenhill26]

I found that the "how-to" videos were getting a bit stale. This format was entertaining!... has a little "Top-Gear-ish" feel to it. Really good! Lot's of good personal insights which I dig. Good balance of compliments/insults.. Great video, good job, and keep it up. Thanks.

[@Radingtonbear]

Kaz, Dario and Henry are peak PB for me. (And yes I was around in the “glory days” of double Mike) such ace bike content out of PB these days. 👍🏼

[@ethanrevitch]

I agree

[@user-gg2el5jq9i]

Raaw is better for Squamish but the Occam is better for 90% of trails. (The 20-23 Occam without headset routing)

[@pbandjosh]

Yeah the 20-23 Occam is a perfect plain vanilla trail bike if you don't want a slacker head angle or a mini-enduro bike. The new one looks like mild updates for big win all around except for that fucking cable routing :(

[@soidk9031]

I am all for the Raaw I love the no nonsense alu approach

[@camrivers3122]

That clip of faffing with the cable tourist headset was like nails on a chalkboard to me. Get these damn headset cable routing off of bikes now. Seriously. Get them gone. Yuck.

[@pinkbike]

We get excited by most new tech but cable tourism just isn't it for us.

[@pbandjosh]

I like integrated headset / bars on a high end road bike. Pott's mod has it's place on BMX / DJ / Slopestyle type bikes, but otherwise integrated stems / headsets can fuck right off.

[@cryx4]

I ride a 2020 occam and it is just nice. It loves climbing, and i'm lazy. It loves descending, and I like descending. It feels fast, responsive, came nicely specced, weighs nothing (M30 model). XT rear mech. Works. Fox performance suspension. Works. MT520 brakes. Work. Love it.

[@rpiian]

The Raaw Madonna is a frame swap away from my 153 (even has the same shock size). Very tempting indeed.

[@dangermouseanpenfold]

V2.2 on heavy discount at the mo...

[@rpiian]

@@dangermouseanpenfold For sure! $1700 for a frame is a great price. Only difference I think is the 1.5” headtube on V3?

[@dangermouseanpenfold]

@@rpiian some slight geo tweeks for the V3, little more stack, longer stays, slacker head angle and then better cable routing and revised pivot bearing - seems evolutionary rather than massive changes - ohh and a new XXL size

[@dantecusolito8513]

Frameworks every time

[@Mtbtanner]

I love you guys hahahaha laughed several times watching this 😂

[@jkoobs1]

Haven’t ridden an alloy frame in a decade until about a month ago. Made a spontaneous stumpy evo alloy frame purchase (big sale price) and swapped all my components over from my yeti sb160… absolutely in love with the alloy stumpy evo. For reference, I’ve had about every high-end carbon trail/enduro bike.

[@eXaviar]

Maaaaaa Donna 😍 all the way. I have ridden a friend's Madonna (previous version) just shortly and it feels like a magic carpet in relation to my Ragley Big Wig 😂 Well, it does dull the trails though 😅

[@mrvwbug4423]

Of the 3, the Raaw is the one I would want to ride out of those 3, though I'm also very happy with my RM Altitude which was doing high front ends 3 years ago.

[@michaelharmer8591]

Madonna! Just ordered one, can't wait.

[@zakkane2814]

I'd be fine moving the saddle back a bit on that Frameworks, been following along with it since the beginning and it's got to be the most beautiful, most exclusive tool for getting down a mountain. Helps that I'm from the Reading PA area, Neko's old stomping grounds

[@DieterVanHolder]

The RAAW Madonna!

[@Derekforeal]

Occam LT

[@Justin-yx4bq]

no one is going to comment that Dario has a sticker that confesses a disturbing "level of excitement" on his front fender?

[@tatumthetater-tot9556]

The Raaw 100 percent. I love their bikes!

[@jockardl]

Got a Raaw myself and it's awesome. Would definitely recommend to pic a bit longer stem und higher stack. Currently running a 50 mil stem and 35 mil rise bars to keep the str up and it feels awesome.

[@MarioB-xx8mk]

How does it ride compared to your previous bike/s? 35mil rise bars on high stack. How does bike chandle?

[@jockardl]

@@MarioB-xx8mk It rides normal. I actually rode a 20mm rise bar with one big spacer over the stem when I freshly got it but it just felt weird and low so I stacked it up. I think Raaw sayed this by them selfs somewhere, that you need the high stack to compensate the lengh of the bike. When you put it into a geometrie calculator the Stack to Reach (STR) is actually not that crazy. Also I just like the feel of an high stack tbh

[@rawpovmtb]

I am with Henry. Just traded a RAAW Madonna V2.2 for a 2022 Giant Trance 2 and I am happy 🥸 Basic Bike for a Basic Boy 👽

[@rodneyfountain4927]

Funny you should put this on as I was just remembering the slagging off we used to do one one another's BMXs. DP Freestyler = Dick Piece Chopper Copy Snap Machine (had twin top tubes, like a Chopper). Cursnap Spoggy Weld (Curtis Pro. A mate snapped one and Brian Curtis' beautiful brazing looked like chewing gum...according to my stupid mate at least).

[@thegrommechanic6265]

Congrats for first comment to the juicy pair below

[@feedbackzaloop]

Verdict: Henry is a pretty weird one

[@ondrejjanoska660]

The raw Madonna is in my case very sad story because last year model was only available in XL and this year they make XXL (I am 6.6) …. Unfortunately I bought new bike in September 😢

[@PinkyFingerPedalStrike]

FYI in case you're wondering, from some random PB article: Kaz: 5'11" (180cm), 160lb (72.6kg) Dario: 6'3" (191cm), 175lb (79.4kg) Henry: 6' (183cm), 169lb (77kg)

[@gollz365]

Don't you be roasting the occam! Fair enough on the new cable routing but the bike itself is incredible. Its good at everything and still a nicely efficient pedaller!

[@polkhighsfinest]

Interested in the Frameworks

[@livefreeandshred9818]

The Raaw would be perfect with a rxf fork

[@chadsugden411]

What size stem did Kaz have for you to suggest a 50mm stem

[@EricDavies26]

When those new SRAM brakes coming out?

[@samdavidson7022]

Soon

[@Pogo69]

Raaw all the way. Wish that the only person I know with one was closer to my size.

[@FomeDH]

Henry’s bike looks more or less like every middle school NICA rider’s bike i see in the shop

[@SudoChuckwalla]

bar roll

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I wouldn't buy any of these bike with my own money, that's the bubble normal people speak of 😂

[@Mtbmxing]

Shoulda brought the spire

[@plepgeat]

OK - since I'm six-foot-six and Tiny Kaz is five-foot-eleven, I'd love to know how tall Dario and Henry are...

[@user-kz8bm7lx9w]

Mine

[@meteormedia7021]

RAAW Madonna > literally everything else

[@Frater_Maven]

Carbon frames are the dirty little environment destroying secret of the cycling industry, and not worth the ridiculous prices they sell for in any way shape or form. Carbon cranks, bars and rims provide a unique ride feel and that boils down to personal preference, but for every riding discipline other than road racing and XC, alloy frames beat carbon frames. I realized this years ago when I bought a 2016 Scott Genius 710 LT (Long Travel) which was basically the Ransom before the Ransom. I was thoroughly disappointed with it's climbing and handling performance and after only 13 months sold it and got an alloy 2017 Transition Patrol and immediately fell in love. Despite the Genius having a total weight of 30.7lbs and the Patrol coming in at 34.1 lbs, the Patrol climbed SO much better and handled SO much better as well! It required way less body English to initiate a loss of traction and slap the rear tire into corners, or pop off a root and just huck the whole root section. Later I put a Meg Neg air can on the Super Deluxe shock and my favorite Shigura brake setup and it got even better. I'll never buy a carbon full suspension again.

[@Wabit01]

100% agree, I like the extra weight alloy frames bring, especially on an Enduro bike. I get how low weight is a benefit for road or XC riding, but there is such a thing as a Mtb being too light, not to mention its at least 1k cheaper.

[@oliverkrieger-fritsch4726]

How about those new codes on the raaw. how about yall talk about those?

[@samdavidson7022]

They’re mavens not codes

[@Matthewlyh244c]

mondraker superfoxy carbon rr

[@Eric.V.]

It still puzzles me why some brands are so insistent and obsessed with routing cables through the headset. WTF?

[@17madracki17]

I clicked just to say. BUMBLERS. 😂😂😂

[@calumsmith3244]

Please don't do that to Top Gear.

[@dtacto]

Top Gear already did that to Top Gear.

[@miyui9269]

i pick orbea all day... ...as the ugliest bike😅

[@krneki111]

That orbea is set up for bumbling.

[@arthurcutting9227]

The Orbea is King, those other things are going to the metal recycler faster than anything when the company is gone and there are no parts. Have to go with Henry here.

[@feedbackzaloop]

But of course carbon doesn't fit the metal recycler! That would be very unsustainable to choose Orbea

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Orbea has a pretty bad network and not that great quality control, not sure what's the point Orbea isn't known for its quality...

[@trexbowlingclub1960]

RAAW offers a replacement chainstay piece to be able to use transmission even for their first Madonna version afaik (and all other parts of course).

[@gollz365]

​@@feedbackzaloop carbon is both recyclable and repairable.. Also doesn't get brittle with age the way Aloy does

[@feedbackzaloop]

@@gollz365 repairability aside, as everything bike related is, carbon frames are not recycled now, at best simply burnt - only a handful of thermoplastic wheels. Also carbon is suseptible to fatigue even more than alu, just the mechanism is different.

[@AlexAutoYYC]

Since when the aluminum is better than the carbon fibre?)))) I think you guys are so tired of looking for a good content that you are trying to invent a wheel here again)))

[@richardp6461]

Isn't this the guy that said the rest of us are just bumbling down the trail. thumbs down always.👎

[@masonjohnson5583]

“Holding a grudge does not hurt the person against whom the grudge is held, it hurts the one who holds it.” -Booker T. Washington

[@CRAAZYpants2]

The bumbling comment was the softest insult. Give yer balls a tug

[@camrivers3122]

Yawn. Such a boring comment now. Go listen to the podcast. They were talking about "pet peeves". It was tongue in cheek and the whole point of pet peeves is that they are meant to be irrational. Don't get sucked in by all the social media whiners who jumped on the chance to make money by making a little cry cry "reaction" videos for extra likes and admiration and fueling their own narcissism.

[@richardp6461]

@@masonjohnson5583 Throwing shade on your own community is absolute dip💩ery. -ME

[@user-gg2el5jq9i]

He didn’t say that. Listen to the whole thing