We have come for you! Konrad Curze & The Night Lords | Warhammer 40k Lore

#warhammer #lore #podcast
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The Night Lords were originally the VIIIth Legion of Space Marines created during the First Founding. They betrayed the trust of the Emperor of Mankind during the Horus Heresy of the 31st Millennium and became one of the 9 Traitor Legions of Chaos Space Marines.
The Night Lords do not worship any of the four Chaos Gods individually, but acknowledge them equally in the form of Chaos Undivided as they ruthlessly spread terror and fear amongst the galaxy's inhabitants. The Night Lords are experts in the use of terror tactics to win battles and demoralise their foes before the main combat even begins.

[@Bricky]

Wanted to mention, the Lion and Curze fight is super important, but I want to cover that on the DA episode as I'd argue it has a significantly bigger impact on their legion

[@KingManga360]

He forgot that he went to talk to Sanguinius that one time

[@sharklegioncain4044]

Sevatar the best night lord

[@KingManga360]

@@sharklegioncain4044 yup

[@sharklegioncain4044]

@@KingManga360 truth son of konrad

[@RedCometofJupiter]

Talos

[@The_Rage_Kage]

"I hope the 5 Night Lords Fans are really happy right now!" I am.

[@Eleven217]

Same

[@urs9189]

me too

[@AhmedAli-hi4si]

Two are missing were are they

[@Voraphiel]

I am #4, Only ever played Fire Warrior and the Dawn of War games, then I read Lord of the Night by Simon Spurrier, and became an automatic fan, still hoping for a sequel.

[@AhmedAli-hi4si]

@@Voraphiel there is but one left

[@Velventian]

"There is no stick lodged in my posterior, the only elongated structure in this part of my body is my spine, which is structurally far superior to a wooden broom handle" Rogal Dorn

[@lordfelidae4505]

Emperor *fucking* damnit, Dorn.

[@thesittingacheroraptor7565]

@@lordfelidae4505 father you cannot have intercourse as you are a skeleton

[@rythofthefourthhouse7104]

@@thesittingacheroraptor7565 Yeah thanks Rogal, I fucking noticed

[@dawae8695]

"I will fortify this position"- Dorn

[@khylerbane4523]

Ruth of the Fourth House…You are welcome father, I am surprised you forgot.

[@darnact]

Horus: I'm putting together a team and... Konrad: Stop right there. I'm in. Horus:... Wait really? Konrad: Yeah... I need.... friends.

[@berniebroig8745]

I'd watch it, and be much happier than with the Snyder cut.

[@hunterkubat4805]

Hahaha

[@justme42300]

Kurze: You son of a tyrant, Im in.

[@emmajones752]

Cut my planet into peices, this is my last resort 🤘

[@hyhena-gaming9986]

Big E: what’s that? Kurz: I’m making. A list of thsie who love me Big E: that’s nice, cross me out Kurz: yes father *strikes out the only name*

[@---xj1il]

Curze: Why don't you die!? Vulkan: Haha, that was a fun game friend brudda!

[@Ashtor1337]

An easier way to explain Dorne is he's the only Primarch that makes gilliman a fun guy

[@reasonableastartes5975]

I suspect Corax could give him a run for his money on that count as well.

[@dinoduelist2219]

The blueberries have a stick so far in their rectum you could put on a puppet show with a few of them. The Fists make the blueberries stare with green eye lens envy at how uptight the Fists are

[@joaogomes9405]

Dorn is like if a wall gained sentience and decided that it still wanted to retain all the personality traits of a wall, but also build other, bigger and stronger walls.

[@magosdominusplutos5131]

Yes, phallic individual.

[@magicianman534]

Under Guilliman's cold exterior he's secretly a big softie. Under Dorn's cold exterior he's just angry about everything.

[@princesseponyboy1971]

"He's really good at building mazes and bullshit" -Bricky, describing Perturabo, 2021

[@migueljimenez2924]

I'm in tears right now, Bricky can't keep getting away with it

[@TheRecklessOne]

And this right here is exactly why Peturabo snaps on his own brothers.

[@unitedstatesofamerica4987]

Do not forget about digging holes

[@danielsmith762]

Polishes hazard stripes in deep frustration.

[@Samm815]

Perturabo, ever the petulant man-child.

[@threefirsts]

“Remember 9/11? Pretty bad, right?” Christ I love this show

[@Hawk_of_Battle]

I use this same line whenever I tell people about Calth. It's quite effective.

[@jackofblades2007]

Konrad Curze's death is also one RIDICULOUSLY subtle gag/reference involving like half a dozen pronunciation and spelling things. So okay, Joseph Conrad (nudge) wrote a book called Heart of Darkness. That was the basis for the epic Vietnam War movie Apocalypse Now, where a Capt. Willard is sent up the Mekong river into Cambodia to kill a rogue and crazy Special Forces Colonel Kurtz (pronounced just like Curze). And who plays Willard? Martin Sheen...M'shen.

[@jackmesrel4933]

Wow, for once GW naming sense was subtle and clever, whoever wrote KC lore was a smart cookie

[@the_victorious_1]

Wow, that's almost Alpha Legion levels of complexity for a subtle gap almost no one would ever figure out! Well done whoever wrote that one, well done.

[@alienlordgamin5339]

I didn’t realize this reference…I don’t know if this makes me more of a nightlord fan or less of one…I’m just confused now

[@hunterkubat4805]

Yesss! The writers must’ve been having a hoot the whole time.

[@smtxs9274]

There are some other sortve maybe lesser examples like Lion 'el Johnson is from Lionel Johnson a monk who wrote the famous poem Dark Angel Erebus being the guide (or ive also heard the black void?) Before the gates of hell, like how Erebus guides the hopefully 30k into the pure hell of 40k Perturabo possible being inspired by "frater, perdurabo"- brother, i shall endure. Which was the lil magic name of Aleister Crowley

[@Brutalyte616]

My favorite part about the labyrinth bit is that Konrad basically said to Vulkan 'no, you don't get to win.' and showed up and tried to kill Vulkan again, presumably so he could dump him back in the maze and torture him more. And Vulkan's hammer was trapped behind a force field that he couldn't break. So what does Vulkan do? He grabs Konrad, who is fully armed and armored, and swings him into the force field to break it so he could grab his hammer and peace out. And even Konrad Curze, a Primarch who can think more in one second than you can in an hour, was so dumbfounded by what just happened, even he went '...Dafuq just happened?'

[@racercowan]

Don't forget when he then tried to stop Vulkan from teleporting out too. "It is also a hammer" indeed.

[@lordgaben7583]

They really need to do Vulkan and the Salamanders justice when they come around to covering them

[@joaogomes9405]

His first mistake was thinking he could step up to the brick shithouse that is Vulkan even with all the disadvantages Vulkan had. Vulkan, he big boy. He real big.

[@alfonsocyrusjoshua9551]

@@joaogomes9405 only primarch bigger than him was magnus right?

[@bloodangel19]

@@alfonsocyrusjoshua9551 Magnus was big only cuz he made himself so, but Vulkan was born big

[@finnphillosa1431]

Nothing has brought me to tears faster than the time Talos led a siege on a Callidus temple to find the video recording of his father’s assassination. When the Exalted finds the recording and plays it for all to see, even without a sound you can feel the effect it has on the Nightlords present. The way they clutch their bolters tightly, the way they all stiffen and stand at attention. How they are all transfixed by this green-filtered video of their progenitor giving his last monologue moments before he is beheaded, just utterly focused on the last captured image of their sire. They have led lives for thousands of years, always hunting and raiding and preying on whatever foe catches their eye. Here they stand, motionless and alert like when they were a legion under the guiding talons of the transhuman whose visage plays across their eyes and words reverberate in their minds across the millennia. Some can be heard sobbing behind their helmets. Nightlords, eternal hunters upon the Imperium, names cursed across humanity and whispers on the lips of dying men. Crying. Moved to tears by the sight of their father in his final moments, rousing them to rise and tear into the galaxy that deserved the punishment they were to dole out. Twin hearts stirred and pride found again. And then they chant. They atonally repeat the words that have not been spoken for ten thousand years. A greeting to their father, the creator of their bloodied legacy. “Ave dominus nox.” “Hail, lord of night.” It has been said that the VIII and IX legions are reflections of each other, bearing more in common than most bloodlines. That they are twins of a sinister mirror, birds of a feather. I just love it when the most terrifying legion pauses and has the kind of reverence and pride for their genefather that so often is associated with the Blood Angels and their Sanguinius. It’s probably the most stirring thing I’ve read in 40K, surpassing even Uriah’s final moments as the last church of Terra burns around him.

[@konradviii5663]

That is rather surprising, given the disdain that Konrad had for his Legion, especially the Nostramo born marines.

[@kevinmccalister4602]

Ave Dominus Nox. I think that if the night lords ever found you after reading this they’d just take you as a slave and maybe remove a few finger nails just to ensure compliance and fear.

[@you1027]

DK: "So does ANYTHING good ever happen to Konrad?" Me: "... No."

[@barrybend7189]

Maybe?

[@omnilisk279]

He died and was freed of it all. That’s about as good as it got for him.

[@Spartan135]

His death...

[@stirlingstafford6502]

Public service announcements in Nostromo: Kurze: "This is a public service announcement" *Screaming, ripping, tearing, crunching and more screaming* Kurze: "That is all"

[@tomaspabon2484]

Captain Flynt from Borderlands 2

[@Keyfur91]

That sounds like something Kurze would do. I’ll be very disappointed if it didn’t happen in one of the books

[@Gift0r]

..."and remember to comment, like and subscribe _or else_ "

[@Hunter12365]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

Based as fuck

[@snakeyman5560]

The majority of Nightlords don't worship any of the gods, they see the Gods and The Warp as tools to be used.

[@Equinox2149]

Pretty much like the Iron Warriors

[@snakeyman5560]

@@Equinox2149 Iron Warriors will cleave off any mutation regardless of its usefulness. So kinda.

[@snakeyman5560]

@@stefankovrlija2722 Having a single boon doesn't mean you are divine

[@mapleflag6518]

Except unbeknownst to them, they would be the tools

[@Neo232100]

Magnus: Vulkan is unkillable and Konrad would know, he tried really hard! With a Fork. Actual Quote from Vulkan. Vulkan: You fixate so much about the fact that this is a teleporter that you have forgotten one crucial thing Konrad. Konrad: What's that Vulkan? Vulkan: It is also a Hammer. *WHACK*

[@ConfusCat]

What novel

[@kevinmccalister4602]

I think it’s Vulcan Lives (Stomp, stop) The novel is Vulcan Lives!

[@snakeyman5560]

Sanguinius and Fulgrim didn't think ill of Konrad. Horus was nice to him out of responsibility to do so. Also my favourite line from Kurze was about the Istvaan 3 dropsite massacre and how he didn't purge any of his troops because he wouldn't know where to begin and when to stop if he started purging his legion.

[@WrathMilten]

Fuck, that really do be a Konrad kurz moment

[@jaymz18]

Ironic considering he later purged his legion when he ordered them to fire on Nostramo

[@heitorgundim1118]

Sanguinius and Horus are liked across the board by their siblings and its easy to see why. Even when Demon Angron shows up to fight Sanguinius in the Siege of Terra, Sanguinius still regards his greater demon brethren as “brother”. It seems that these two always treated their brothers with respect

[@snakeyman5560]

@@heitorgundim1118 I really hope we get a novel where Angron and Sanguinius fight side by side. It would be pure bloodshed.

[@Reddotzebra]

"It's so hard to just kill SOME!"

[@mosca8017]

Dk is right, a character in Greek Mithology, Cassandra, was gifted with the power of predicting the future, at the cost of people never believing her. On point refernce, green horn of 40k!

[@christophvogel1080]

If I remember correctly, it was from a curse by Apollo, when she rejected him. She'd be cursed with knowing what would happen, but couldn't really do anything, as no one would believe her.

[@snotenberg7]

@@christophvogel1080 obligatory "fuck Apollo" here. Have a wonderful day!

[@Sorain1]

@@christophvogel1080 My understanding was that Apollo blessed her with foresight first, then when she rejected him proceeded to curse her, since just removing the foresight wasn't enough petty vengeance for him. Then Cassandra dies during the siege of Troy because the gods fear someone might listen to her warnings about the Trojan Horse. (Well, the Gods threw her off the walls to her death to be specific.)

[@RepKyle95]

@@christophvogel1080 Apollo was basically just a neckbeard, probably wore a fedora

[@derskalde4973]

@@Sorain1 The way I remember the Story, she survived the war, became a slave of one of the greeks and then got murdered by that guys wife.

[@micke1888]

"Brother.. why are my hands red?" - Uzas in the Night Lords Trilogy

[@yes-par2983]

T.T

[@Voraphiel]

Trilogy? Only ever read Lord of the Night by Simon Spurrier

[@ARAAFIGORN]

What a twist that was :'(

[@agentmaine4746]

@@Voraphiel Aaron Dembski Bowden wrote 3 books about 'em, Soul Hunter, Blood Reaver and Void Stalker. I'd say check 'em out if you ever feel inclined.

[@kye4216]

@@Voraphiel the trilogy is probably one of the best 40K storylines absolutely fantastic

[@alexbrown7708]

I thought the reason why Konrad Tortured Vulcan like that was to prove that anyone would have turned out like himself if they went through the pain he did.

[@woaddragon]

Yeah, like joker " one bad day" The problem is that konrad Curze could not go and say "where at all your ideals and honor.get you? Dead at my feet." Because you know VULKAN LIVES STOMP STOMP

[@Ashtor1337]

I got the same feeling.

[@futtynucker5278]

@@woaddragon STOMP STOMP

[@joaogomes9405]

Unfortunately for him, he picked the one primarch with the most determination and who is also literally incapable of dying.

[@xanderlaskey2753]

@@joaogomes9405 The og chad

[@Hawk_of_Battle]

My interpretation of Konrad has been that, due to his visions, he's basically read the entire plot of the novels. He knows what's coming, always. He knows that everything he does, isn't his own choice. Everyone, including himself, is destined along an insane course of events that cannot be changed and only he realizes it. Try as he might to convince people of these facts, they can never grasp the truth; that all their lives are a meaningless fiction, orchestrated by powers they can't comprehend and they just all have to play their parts. And he fucking HATES it all. He's ultimately the biggest nihilist ever because he knows, with 100% certainty, that nothing can be changed and he feels trapped by it, and is alone in this knowledge. That's why the thing he fears the most, is being proven wrong. Every time there's the slightest twist of fate that might throw the future he knows off-kilter, he freaks the fuck out because the uncertainty of such a future terrifies him and would make all of his past actions even more meaningless, because if things COULD be changed, if his destiny wasn't pre-determined and he ever really did have a choice not to just be a monster in a story, then he'd have to actually take responsibility for all those horrible acts. If destiny isn't fixed, then it means he chose to be a monster, rather than it being a role he was forced into against his will. And he just cannot reconcile that idea. Course, after a while I'm sure he also just starts having actual fun with all his horrible deeds, since he might as well since that's all he's allowed to do, and then his mind breaks and he becomes even more insane. But at least for a large part of his life, he's pretty much right in his ideas.

[@michaelharris8111]

"Death is nothing compared to Vindication."

[@worldeater2414]

Curze is Deadpool with a bat fetish confirmed

[@Reddotzebra]

@@worldeater2414 Except Deadpool kind of just accepts that he's more fucked up in the head than most people and then goes off to do whatever.

[@worldeater2414]

@@Reddotzebra so does Curze

[@vincentadultman6226]

@@worldeater2414 na, Konrad has a fucked up sense of justice, where the most lenient punishment is death, Deadpool is an actual goodguy, just fucked up a bit

[@you1027]

Rogal Dorn is a literal brick in human form

[@dannylamb456]

He is not a brick. He is Rogal Dorn.

[@thescholar5611]

It was not kek~ it was CRINGE, father

[@mortemtyrannus8813]

A brick cannot take human form.

[@bonogiamboni4830]

A brick is a tool to create buildings and walls, not an anatomical part, therefore Rogal Dorn is not a brick but a brick user.

[@gokbay3057]

No, he is not just a brick, he is the whole wall.

[@randombencounter263]

My favourite moment in the Night Haunter novel is when he remembers one of his earliest murders. He's chasing a criminal and catches up with him, notices that he's just a boy, maybe a little younger than himself. They end up hanging on a ledge together and Curze has two simultaneous visions of the future. One vision is just his future as he has always seen it, but in the other one they help each other up, become friends, fight the corruption on Nostramo together, redeem each other and their horrible homeworld, bring true justice to their people and not just order from terror, all because Konrad Curze learns to see the good in people. Curze reaches out to pull him back from the ledge, but the boy panics and attacks him and so the rest is history.

[@TheSchultinator]

That's truly tragic

[@luna775]

I was hoping he would mention that part of the story.. it was kind of a turning point for Conrad imo.

[@mannmannmanifred1316]

Now I gotta read the Night Haunter after I finish Soul Hunter

[@kennethherp5496]

Im not sure about the validity of the thread I read before but didnt Conrad kill the boy because at that point he wouldnt turn back on his conviction to kill criminals regardless of what his foresight shows him?

[@Nyctophora]

In other versions of the lore he never sees anything but the worst outcome in his visions, though they can occasionally be wrong (when what he sees is still awful but doesn't happen). He tries to fight to prevent them from happening, but always fails no matter what he tries. In my opinion that is even more tragic, because he didn't get that chance to choose. It also explains his fatalism - condemned to always see the future, but in the worst possible way, and knowing it cannot be prevented. I think that would drive me mad too :(

[@old_sparky1365]

Little correction: The Night Lords are NOT Chaos Undivided. While the Word Bearers submitted themselves to the Dark Gods, the Night Lords didn't. They don't fight and never fought for chaos, they fight alongside it. They are crazed murderers who fight to quench their thirst for terror, which they can do more easily on the side of Chaos. They only pledge alligence to the Night Haunter and to their Legion and travel the galaxy as mercenaries for the servants of the Dark Gods.

[@galomir833]

Wait You meen that they are a traitor legion that pretty much chaos/order neutral !?

[@jonathanguitard984]

I always had a headcanon that they had unknowingly fallen to Malal. They are the embodiment of malice

[@jasonirwin4631]

​@@galomir833 as a legion yes they are neutral. As individuals some are chaos undivided, some follow specific dark gods, other still follow imperial truth just with the additional of hating the emperor and the imperium.

[@samfish2550]

Honestly, I like Conrad not because you feel like you want him to be """saved""" like the vibe given by magnus, but because you can sympathize with how he got where he was, you can feel earnestly bad for him, but you don't want to forgive him for what he does.

[@BM-is5ei]

Lol what. It is the exact opposite. You want him to be saved and Magnus to fuck off.

[@Dracon7601]

Honestly I wish they both could be saved cause ultimately they both have potential to be truly great in different ways if it wasn't for certain events in their lives, both stemming from bad parenting in different ways

[@samfish2550]

@@BM-is5ei I meant more in how people see them, both were done dirty and have truly fallen beyond any true redemption. But nobody is out there saying "Conrad did nothing wrong" not to mention that there weren't any shards or anything, just a troubled man near doomed to fall, it was just a satisfying tragedy if you get what I mean. I'm aware you were probably atleast part joking but finally had the words come to me on how to word this sooooo..... Eh.

[@BM-is5ei]

@@samfish2550 yeah i get what you mean. The whole "fallen to chaos" thing always struck me as a bit odd in the greater picture. The primarchs are of the warp as much as they are human. In that sense none of them are truly lost so to speak. Well besides the ones that died. They are gonezo.

[@kingthe13]

@@BM-is5ei or are they?

[@ProcyonMPanda-zo2vu]

"Konrad is actually Omegon. He faked his own death so he can went back to Alpha legions and took the role of Alpharius." - Alpharius

[@TheGallantDrake]

"This is a lie." -Oregon

[@antonymash9586]

African proverb: You must always initiate the youth into the tribe or else they will burn down the village to warm themselves on its fires.

[@traemelodeath]

*burn down the village to feel its warmth* It has a double meaning

[@Deamon187]

11:19 Konrad was meant to be the judge and executioner of the Imperium. All primarchs were made for specific roles (such as Magnus for the golden throne and a powerful enough psycher to do this) Konrads includes rules & judgement, but as a infant he had no idea how to use that ingrained knowledge. He also had the ability to learn from EATING the bad guys and animals in the city to get a overview of his current surrounding.... which meant he ate the worst of the worst and adopted a very, very biased view of Nostromus. From that knowledge he judged all of Nostramus to be horrible people and all deserved to be punished according to his knowledge as well as from the memories of the people he consumed the memories from. Was Nostramus a terrible place? Very much so, but for a mining hive world its quite possible not the worst and he wasn't supposed to be exposed to the cesspool that was the worst of the under hives so early. Add into the fact he was a precog, which gave him visions which he couldn't comprehend but knew would happen or was a high possibility... which Tzeench decided to manipulate... a LOT, through out his life. You can understand that this causes very very bad decisions through manipulations and misconceptions. Nostramus also decided to send the worst of the worst to supplement his new legion as time went on and the Nighthaunter was slowly less feared and returned to their nomal everyday before he came to the planet. Saving their true elites to stay on the planet and instead send convicts to him, which he could of course figure out. This caused friction between Konrad and his legion to the point of wanting to kill them all well before the events of his return to the planet and after it the legion and their primarch was.... strained with fear of Konrad who at this point had developed a split personality that was the Nighthaunt which was monsterous but admired by Konrad... since he wanted to return to that based ideology that had made his rule of fear possible. He was meant to be the honorable judge and ended up a mad tyrant, one of the most tragic backstories of the primarchs. one of the many reasons I for one collect his hated sons. Ave Dominus Nox

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

I'm looking forward to the Emperor's Children episode where Horus sets them on the path to worshipping Slaanesh by taking them out for a nice meal and buying them their first beer

[@dalekrenegade2596]

And Rylanor's final stand.

[@danjudex2475]

I mean also Fulgrim picking up a magic talking orgy sword didn't help the 3rd legion either🤷‍♂️

[@nicbuzas7783]

@@danjudex2475 that whole "opera orgy" thing was also not a great step.

[@Hiihtopipa]

@@nicbuzas7783 was it fun? Yes, FUCK yes

[@lordfelidae4505]

@@Hiihtopipa was it a good idea? no, FUCK no.

[@mars___sumner]

Suicide is a crime Sounds like something out of Judge Dredd: “Don’t do it, citizen! Littering the streets is an offense!”

[@TheSSBBfan666]

now imagine the Judges in 40K how they could fit into the Imperium

[@WarbossFitz]

Best line from Vulcan after Curse took most of the power from his hammer. "You forgot, its still a hammer." Then proceeds to bonk.

[@displeasedsociopath5939]

Konrad Curze is the embodiment of the writing above the gates to perdition in Dante's Inferno. Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. He was so seeped in fatalism, it forever changed the course of destiny not only for himself and his legion, but for the face of the galaxy as a whole. Where his brother Sanguinius embodied hope, Konrad could only feel despair and in that despair he fell victim to the ruinous powers. His psyche torn at by the warp, his own profound mental illness exacerbating the tear, and the lack of empathy and understanding from his brothers-the outright unwillingness to at least listen to his cries for help, or even acknowledge they existed, turned his inward pain into a fuel to which he would choose to torch the galaxy with. He's a sympathetic monster to be sure, but he also made the choices that got himself decapitated. The Imperium of Man and the galaxy as a whole are far better off without the Edge Lords Primarch playing Hannibal Lecter in the back yard with the Trench Coat Mafia under his command. They're just a little too much too much. There's just not enough anti-psychotics in the entire administratum's medicae supplies for that level of dysfunction.

[@baconator1377]

Paragraphs dude, please break that up a little. It's hard for my dyslexic ass to read

[@0nullnil]

@@baconator1377 "Konrad Curze is the embodiment of the writing above the gates to perdition in Dante's Inferno. Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. He was so seeped in fatalism, it forever changed the course of destiny not only for himself and his legion, but for the face of the galaxy as a whole. Where his brother Sanguinius embodied hope, Konrad could only feel despair and in that despair he fell victim to the ruinous powers. His psyche torn at by the warp, his own profound mental illness exacerbating the tear, and the lack of empathy and understanding from his brothers-the outright unwillingness to at least listen to his cries for help, or even acknowledge they existed, turned his inward pain into a fuel to which he would choose to torch the galaxy with. He's a sympathetic monster to be sure, but he also made the choices that got himself decapitated. The Imperium of Man and the galaxy as a whole are far better off without the Edge Lords Primarch playing Hannibal Lecter in the back yard with the Trench Coat Mafia under his command. They're just a little too much too much. There's just not enough anti-psychotics in the entire administratum's medicae supplies for that level of dysfunction."

[@ayami123]

technically he didn't fall to ruinous powers, because he betrayed the emps before horus even rebel.

[@kylenguyen7371]

Re: Konrad's first vision of Fulgrim was unique in being the first that didn't depict their death or extreme suffering. It is part of why the pair got along so well early on.

[@SMScorx89]

You forgot to add that Konrad utterly despised his Legion. He HATED then because he thought they were the worst examples humanity had to offer. He purposely sent them in suicide missions with the hopes they would all die and was bitterly disappointed when any Night Lord came back alive. And Bricky forgot to mention that the Night Lords were shattered as a legion near the end of the Heresy and only operate as roaming warbands since then.

[@mlrobbins02]

"See he's like Batman and The Joker." So... The Batman Who Laughs?

[@BM-is5ei]

Basically exactly that.

[@ofthecaribbean]

No Judge Dredd

[@BM-is5ei]

@@ofthecaribbean lol no. Wtf 😆

[@ofthecaribbean]

@@BM-is5ei Judge Dredd lives in a big ass city Konrad Curze lives in a big ass city Judge Dredd is a test tube baby Konrad Curze is a test tube baby Judge Dredd kills you for the slightest infraction Konrad Curze kills you for the slightest infraction Furthermore every Primarch has genetically predisposed affinity. Guilliman is good at organization, Ferrus Manus is good at technology, etc. Konrad Curze is the *Judge* Corvus Corrax is Batman. The only thing Konrad has in common with Batman is his fursona

[@BM-is5ei]

@@ofthecaribbean there is some inspiration from Dredd but comparing him with the night haunter is like saying murder is the same as genocide. The nh is an psycopathic maniac and sadist to the extreme. Just google his screeming gallery and tell me again they are comparable. Did you even read any of the lore? Your arguments sound like copy pasta from wiki.

[@hunterpratt9404]

I know it's late but I want to mention a Night Lords story. There was a Night lord, who had gotten tired of the "indiscriminate violence" so he left and went to a planet like Nastromo, while on this planet he attempted to become like his Primarch and act as a Night Haunter there. It started out alright with him killing rapists, murderers and thieves, but eventually he started to go insane and within a year he started killing/torturing people for things like breaching shipping contracts to eventually just killing for incorrect pronunciation in High Gothic. Source CSM codex: Night Lords section

[@IEvertoNI]

The Eighth follow no one except themselves, the first time Sevatar saw the Gal Vorbak he spat at Argel Tal their commander. It’s true that some marines fall to the chaos gods but much fewer than normal for chaos marines.

[@OHYisWatching]

Konrad Curze is so driven and such a man of focus that, when he almost killed a planet by being a ballistic infant, he made sure to come back and finish the job later on in his life

[@bigmoe9856]

10:22 "Even as a 10 year old, he felt people were weaker then him" I think it needs to be clarified that the Primarchs had incredibly fast growth rates. What may look like a 10 year old child would actually be a 1 yr Primarch, the average adult man of 20 would be them at 2, and most Primarchs settled in their current state at 3.

[@dollarsignmexican]

I can hear Arch freaking out about every detail missed about his beloved Konrad Curze all the way here in America.

[@Machiroable]

Is his favorite primarch after all, his video about the what-if loyal Konrad Curze is pretty good tho.

[@leviathantb4014]

arch is an edgy dipshit and him being a night lord fanboy makes perfect sense

[@thedr1911]

Does leftist propaganda taste good? It’s all carbs and sugar friend you’ll get the fat body

[@hardgay7537]

*cries in Norwegian Butters*

[@axtondragunov1784]

​@@thedr1911cry harder

[@tinycowboy248]

Vulkan is 1 of the main reasons I play Salamanders. Not the fact of his perpetual bs but his Honor and courage and heroism and darn tough af determination. You need to do a whole video on the Sallies!!!!! For Vulkan for Nocturne!!

[@insanehippiehippieinsane3828]

I started playing Salamanders when I got into 40k because they got to re-roll 1s. My dice hate me

[@tinycowboy248]

@@insanehippiehippieinsane3828 Bruh I feel that man.

[@lordgaben7583]

VULKAN LIVES!!! *STOMP* *STOMP*

[@tinycowboy248]

@@lordgaben7583 vulkan has died...stomp stomp............VULKAN LIVES!!! STOMP STOMP!!!!!....

[@EmpressofMankind]

Vulkan: HUGS AND FRIENDSHIP!! Also Vulkan: *burns xenos children in promethium*

[@magnum32b]

It is VERY important to mention that the Nightlords were effectively BROKEN with Curze's death. He and Sabaton were the only lynchpins keeping their legion together. The Nightlords still exist, but they are one of the most scattered of the traitor legions. All the chaos gods have their hooks throughout the legion in various capacities (example: immediately after the death of Kurze, a member of the nightlords first company succumbs to the temptation of khorne due to his rage at losing his primarch). They do form up to "chapter strength" warbands, but the legion rarely operates together in any significant capacity like the Iron Warriors or the Deathguard.

[@ragnarian]

...now I'm imagining that the legion was held together by a shared love of sabaton songs, and during the heresy the songs were lost, and they all blamed eachother for losing it, causing the disillusion of the legion...

[@Deisan]

Konrad Cruze' main tragedy is that he was a slave to his visions. He believed the future was immutable, it was destiny. That no matter how much he didn't want these visions to come true, he truly believed they were doomed to come to pass. Which explains a lot of his tortured personality.

[@joaogomes9405]

My favourite thing about the Night Lords is that it's basically impossible to tell them apart before and after the Horus Heresy. They looked just as much like the cartoonishly evil edgelords who wore innocent people's ribcages as party hats when they were still loyalists. That's honestly hilarious to me, they didn't even have to rebrand themselves, they just swapped the Emperor for Chaos and went about their regular business like "if it ain't broke, don't fix it, let's peel some dude like a banana and wear his face like a loincloth". Plus, their wiki page has a literal list of war crimes, most of which committed before the Horus Heresy. If you want a fun drinking game, open the Night Lords wiki page, go the Notable Campaigns section and take a shot every time the words "Castigation", "Compliance", "Extermination" or "Massacre" appear. You will be dead from alcohol poisoning and total liver and kidney failure within the hour

[@jakebailey1636]

I would like to express that I am a person who knows a lot of lore, including most of what's been covered in these casts and I just spent the last 24 hours, binging every single video. I am loving the hell outta all this

[@thepoweroftacos5311]

Ave Dominus Nox. 4k points of Night Lords represented here

[@jaymz18]

We go in midnight clad

[@killianasheart5175]

Konrad Curze, at least in his book, is so interesting of a character. Like there are certain moments you’re like, “aww poor dude, he’s just not being treated well enough.” And then you have moments “OH BY THE EMPEROR, KONRAD CALM THY TITS!”

[@ShikiRen]

"Hey, how about this, when the assassin killed Curze, his soul took her over! And since then he has been soul hopping all over!" GW within the next 5 years, probably.

[@wetzel4806]

Sounds about right, gw always seems to leave in that "or is it" somewhere. Konrad and the corona nox and all that...

[@carsongriffin5120]

The assassin was killed

[@ShikiRen]

@@carsongriffin5120 Hence "And since then he was soul hopping all over." From the assassin to her killer and so on. Don't underestimate the stupidity of GW decisions.

[@anshumanbose5132]

I would love that to be honest. Bring back as many primarchs as you can.

[@jeambeam3173]

@@anshumanbose5132 yes but not in a stupid way such as the above example

[@svenbrede6151]

Vulcan is more than just a boss. He's actually stable and had an actually wholesome family. Turns out that's pretty useful.

[@07azunyan]

If you wanna know what happens to a Primarch who actively didn't want to hang with the Emperor after he found them, check out Angron's backstory.

[@supersaiyandiclonius3056]

Angron would've faired much better on Nostromo.

[@Wraithfire27]

Imperial Noble: Here's the tithe!! Konrad: I was promised an ass whooping and I'm not leaving till I achieve that goal.

[@dannco255]

I love the Night lords. Love that you guys are covering them. I just wanted to bring up that the destruction of Nostramo was much worse. He brought his entire legion fleet there and out of nowhere ordered them to bombard the planet until it was completely destroyed. Any captain that did not immediately comply was gutted by the super loyal first company and the best Night Lord Sevatar. He wanted the entire legion to feel the pain of destroying their rot.

[@MrStatistx]

I'm so pissed that the new nightlord terminators are Forgeworld. They look great, I want to go to my Warhammer store and pick them up for a "normal" price.

[@uria3679]

I can’t wait for the Batman and Punisher puns in this episode

[@harleyspawn]

Truck-nuts on an Astartes, but they're someone's actual nuts. 😭

[@lolzyking656]

Konrad's soul lives on though, It turns out the black crown he had claimed on his crusades had an eldar soul stone in it, when the assassin killed him he ended up in the crown.

[@kye4216]

Bet he’s super pissed about it too

[@LethargicGM]

That's a fan theory based on a book stuck in the same semi-canon limbo as the squats and Malice.

[@mapleflag6518]

@@kye4216 Probably not as he can rest in there. It’s probably like an Urn to him.

[@mapleflag6518]

@@LethargicGM That first one aged poorly because squats are now Canon again

[@trifontrifonov4297]

: Bricky's pirate voice: Me: Goddamn he needs to do an episode about the pirate Chaos Space Marines. There are even 2 options: the Red Corsairs and Blood Gorgons. It's even thematic to previous episodes. The Gorgons are part of the Cursed Founding, same as the Lamenters. And the Corsairs? That is their new name. Before they used to be known as the Astral Claws.

[@BAGELMENSK]

They should spread a little more love around the universe before they circle back I think but good suggestions.

[@blazingreaperx1394]

From Blue to Red, truly they have fallen.

[@jeambeam3173]

Especially because in the Lamenters ep they claim that nothing much happens after Badab War like wuuut 😂 they need to talk about this shit especially with what happens with Warsmith Honsou

[@kylebell7323]

Death is nothing compared to vindication

[@jbark678]

So Curze is like a Batman from one of the Dark Multiverse worlds.

[@THExRISER]

Yup, Grim Knight, The Batman Who Laughs, Dawnbreaker, The Merciless, they all represent him in some way, or rather some aspect of him.

[@blockhead134]

@@THExRISER Id say hes pretty similar to Red Death. Both do the "Cant be crime if I kill all the criminals" thing

[@DenGuleBalje]

More like Red Hood

[@Paronak]

Reminds me of Thomas Wayne, Batman's dad.

[@THExRISER]

@@blockhead134 Yeah him too, fuck it, he's all of them, maybe even Drowned, don't remember a lot about her.

[@orraklbenedict1832]

Bruh, they better mention at least 4 Sevatar stories. This is gonna be dope

[@mannmannmanifred1316]

Unfortunately it seems like they covered the most basic stuff

[@BM-is5ei]

Ot my boy Vandred. A complete badass and possibly the greatest ship captain to ever live.

[@2saisai]

I wish bricky had went into Curz and our glorious hawk boy since they both share the ability to see the future but each had went two completely different paths and thr conversations they had. Also the fact that curz saw multiple futures and seems to narrow himself to the worst possible path. But great job as always and love the podcast. Keep them coming .

[@Connordaboss45]

Konrad Curze met Sanguinius during the heresy. They fought in a 3v1 sanguinius, the Lion, and Guiliman vs Kurze. Konrad went to Sanguinius to warn him of his death but got jumped

[@gokbay3057]

Konrad vs Sanguinius fight where both sides have hax future sight powers, it is super cool.

[@berniebroig8745]

Plot twist: Conrad was a Callidus Assassin the whole time probably.

[@jsnmdn2738]

I think Conrad's visions were more so of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like maybe he was so evil and gave into his visions because he saw them happening no matter what, so he rarely saw a reason to be better and do more good, then causing his visions to come true. Maybe if he did alter his views and methods, the visions could've been brighter and he may have been able to stop the Heresy. But that's just what I think.

[@Ashtor1337]

He saw the truth of the future. The loss of everything and the coming darkness.

[@racercowan]

@@Ashtor1337 He did often see the "truth of the future", but there are also a couple times it's implied that it COULD have gone another way if it weren't for Curze. Most famously his death, where he specifically allowed in an assassin and specifically let them kill him with no resistance because that's what he saw happening. Death is nothing next to vindication to Curze because the single most terrifying thing is that he might have any responsibility for what he did.

[@kurtl8425]

So we’re Horus’. The chaos powers showed him a future where he was shunned and abhorred and where some of his brothers were revered and the Emperor was worshiped as a deity. It hurt his feelings and pride that he was excluded and so rebelled. Ironically by rebelling he created that future he was shown.

[@gammothguy297]

“One of the few Chaos Undivided Legions” when there are 5 Chaos Undivided Legions and only one for each of the 4 gods.

[@nervmeister]

Sevatar = genedaddy Kurze's best boi.

[@dr.cobalt8623]

One of these days I hope they cover the black templars and my boi grimaldus

[@UltimaOmega777]

GRIMALDUS! GRIMALDUS! GRIMALDUS! GRIMALDUS!

[@robertstrong6798]

Konrad is a great man , he is all about the tough love. He gives everyone of his children a free TV 📺 and a 24 hour torture channel ! You would think the imperium would be grateful!

[@emjaaaay]

Sanguinius liked Konrad, but, Sanguinius liked everybody.

[@crackedhammer4612]

I think there was some miscommunication with the fact that most Night Lords don’t follow chaos at all and most hate chaos

[@Lobossumi]

Coolest part is the fact that Emperor communicates with Kurze just before he gets killed by M'Shen. And tells him he was wrong, fact that you know the future means you can change it. He knew assassin would kill him but he could have stopped them thus proving his vision wrong. But hes too far gone to accept it anymore.

[@THExRISER]

Ave Dominus Nox!

[@bruhb7611]

It’s finally time for my favorite legion in my favorite podcast.

[@mr.b.5981]

Do a video about first Captain of the night lords,Jago Sevetarion,,Sevetar,,or by the title Princ of Crows.He headbutted the Emperors Champion out off Boredom.

[@THExRISER]

Pretty sure M'Shen cut off Kurze's head and took at as confirmation, not just recorded it.

[@kye4216]

Yes that boy headless

[@BM-is5ei]

Yeah but she got completely destroyed by the Soulhunter. I felt really bad for her.

[@robbomegavlkafenryka6158]

57:40 the night haunter believed that the future he saw was the only one available. So he simply did not fight it.

[@sunjian5458]

46:30 That would be Cassandra. She was a Prophetess of Apollo during the Trojan War. All her visions came to pass but nobody believed her, and when the Trojans brought the "Trojan horse" into the city, she was said to have cried the now famous phrase: "BEWARE THE GREEKS BRINGING GIFTS!!"

[@thomasalegredelasoujeole9998]

Konrad’s sanity broke before Vulkan’s decency did.

[@Matej_Sojka]

Thing about Konrad that damns him in my opinion is that even when he had positive visions, he ignored them and went with the grimdark option. Every time. He did not even give hope a chance. That is why he ends up badly.

[@muglypunt968]

Without counsel or friendship who do you bounce ideas off? When you grow up alone racked with nightmares, probably turning out true, wouldn't you ignore the good

[@rasenshuriken7325]

Ave Dominus Nox My brothers. In the Night Lords novel "Soul Hunter" It says that Curze was decapitated. The Soul Hunter novel takes place 5 minutes after Curze's final words to the assassin.

[@GreenBaji]

Dorn isn't emotionless, his mind is just fortified!

[@verbalbbq7976]

Man, I would love to listen to “book club” podcasts of the whole Horus Heresy series (yes, all 11 of them)

[@luna775]

idk man he spews too much heresy and that would be a looong series indeed

[@kye4216]

Don’t you mean 70

[@starwarsnerd100]

Dude, imagine if that assassin hadn't killed him. It would have proven that his visions *could* be changed, and he'd have to take responsibility for his own evil actions. Brutal.

[@stephenrussell3839]

ow! damn!

[@deadcheckofficial1815]

5 minutes in and I'm firing off "ackchually's" at Bricky. Night Lords only follow chaos out of circumstance. They HATE the chaos gods

[@Ashtor1337]

They hate everyone.

[@khylerbane4523]

There is a reason why the legion went from misunderstood anti-hero’s to the Batman Who Laughs on steroids. Gendor Skraivok, aka the Painted Count. One of the few Nostramon born Night Lords that retained their memories of who they were before becoming an Astarte. He is also the son of one of the nobles Curze traumatized into not being dicks. Gendor is solely responsible for the fall of Konrads legion, the coup of Nostramo, poisoning the legion by filling it with criminals, some Night Lords not being loyal to Curze(but to him), and killing Shang aka Konrad Curzes’ Equerry, the kindest Night Lord, and one Konrads few sons that he didn’t hate. At least Curze, Sevetar, and (initially) Talos tried to at least remain as anti-villains instead of going full on villain. And did so for as long as possible before they too fell. For all the good it ended up doing for them in the end.

[@raver377]

the most terrifying sentence in 30k: "send in the 8th"

[@HappyKatanaGaming]

Man. I love yhow you guys present the lore. You do it in a way that feels like the listener is hanging out with you guys just shooting the sh*t. love it so much. thank you guys

[@evanhunt1863]

27:06 "YO, SKIN!" -Night Lords Raptor

[@Dzugoslav]

They are misotheist. They care little for chaos at all and very few of them worship Chaos undivided or any of the deities.

[@docthefaust4519]

They worship Malal, unknowingly /headcanon

[@exactinmidget92]

Konrads book was pretty good. The dude was completely gone by the end of the Heresy.

[@Kradus]

The soul hunter triolgy about the nightlords is excellent yall should read it

[@jocosesonata]

29:14 / 30:24 / 32:44 - I actually got a bit teary-eyed when you started telling about him having an absolute mental breakdown, bawling and crying for help, and wanting to be loved and not hated, knowing that there is something wrong with him but not knowing what it is, and wanting to be fixed. As someone who has experienced a bit of a mental breakdown relatively recently, Konrad has also become my favourite primarch. Guilliman may have Ultra-Depression, but Konrad's got the 40k-Depression, which he's had after spending his first day in Nostramo. It's just something about bottling everything up, until one day it all just comes pouring out, and you don't know what to do. No one's helping you, no one cares enough to help you, to understand what you're going through... Konrad is a sick fuck, but I can't help but pity him.

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

Konrad is my favourite I get where he comes from with knowing what will happen, as in you try and warn people about bad mistakes or things that are very likely to happen but they refuse to listen. That kind of desperation to break through to another person must have been insurmountable as he was cast aside and cynically used for what he had to do and what broken him the end the hypocrisy. If the Emperor had of left him or tried reaching out to guide him into a better path things could have ended differently. As his desperation grew his methods became more and more extreme to counter what he saw all around him. I do enjoy his sense of justice however there should be no exceptions for crime but murdering a thief is a tad excessive but hey it works and if he was left alone potential he could have made a stronger sense of ethics in his Legion.

[@Gormathius]

2:22 That's a great pitch. "Donate so I can do the thing I wanna do anyway" That's like Drukhari levels of "No this is all totally circumstance"

[@Rustie3000]

i don't know why, but the part at 33:36 where Bricky mimics the Emperor talking to Konrad makes me laugh so hard, i just find it so funny 😂

[@JohnDoe-nb1yy]

Aight time to get my flesh pile that looks like the Emperor and beg for forgiveness

[@l-shanky6383]

The night lords don’t exist as a legion anymore, they’re just hundreds of scattered war bands, some having only a few hundred some are in the thousands. Some have embraced chaos and some still hate all things daemony and chaosy

[@ladywaffle2210]

"Any questions? Any concerns?" Questions, no. Concerns? Numerous.

[@Kalianos88]

Nightlords look cool and Konrad is like a solid #5 primarch for his lore alone. Wish the tabletop liked them more.

[@williamwiegand4340]

There's a book or short story where alot of Night Lords raid an Imperial base where they find a copy of that recording of Konrad's death. Not sure if the recording showed the kill, but the assassin was carrying Konrad's head so yeah....

[@magicianman534]

You kind of unintentionally summed up the problem with the Nightlords: There's a lot to say about Konrad Curze, but not nearly as much to say about his sons compared to other legions. The first captains of most of the other traitor legions are pretty important characters to the lore, but you didn't even mention Sevatar.

[@kye4216]

Well you can talk about any legion without mentioning the first captain, I’d argue sevatar is actually more important than most since he was the only marine that could hold the legion together besides curze himself

[@magicianman534]

@@kye4216 My point is they didn't really talk about the actual legion. No mention of them at the siege or what they're doing post heresy, ect. Just their primarch. And yeah, any conversation about a legion is going to be dominated by their primarch, but the Nightlords are the most anemic legion in terms of available lore in my opinion.

[@yugonostalgia8961]

@@magicianman534 because CSM are a boring villain and terrible choice of antagonist obv

[@mapleflag6518]

@@magicianman534 Because this episode is on the PRIMARCH

[@ramiusbuilds3051]

Conrad saw his visions as the only path possible. No one ever taught him he could choose his own path.

[@blah007001]

The Night Lords Omnibus written by Aaron Dembski-Bowden is some of the best science-fiction I have ever read. Not WH40K fiction, not generic franchise fiction. But genre-defining science-fiction. I didn't even think much of the Night Lords until I read it.