We Hit the Minipainting Wall | S5E13

[@bjschultz]

@1:11:45 "I wanted to wait until I was good enough" - That might be the first time I've heard it said out loud and it really resonated with me. I've re-entered the hobby after having built the LOTR models as a kid (32 now) and have spent most of the last 6 months buying and building different factions without finishing painting any of them - especially models I really really like, and now realize that's what the paralysis has been. Just picked up the Soulblight Spearhead box and it's the farthest I've gone in the painting process and while I'm no master, I'm really happy with what I've done so far :)

[@willsuttie3683]

"Is there anything else where you need it but if you have too much you die?" Aren't you diabetic?

[@cerohero1]

I know a guy that worked on scale models and props for movies for a long time, and he was so incredibly talented at not just creating models, weathering, all the fun stuff I've gotten to learn from him but also mass producing and figuring out what's good enough to pass on screen in the budget you're given. Some super cool stuff.

[@thevuntzer]

Can't tell you dudes how much I love when you go from joking about housing tendies to waning philosophical about why we paint how we paint. This podcast/channel is a gem and I wish more people had exposure to it. Also, DIABEETUS!

[@Vorpal_Wit]

That Red Vader is starting to win me over. Its looking tight. Scot you should be complemented for the fearlessness you are showing in this effort. Most would have given up, but you are pushing through, and I think you will be rewarded for the effort.

[@Miniac]

Thank you!!

[@Whichendup]

Thank you Jon and Scott for teaching me that I don't actually want to paint. Painting techniques don't excite me, they frustrate me. I don't have excitement to paint. I've put reps in for over a decade trying glazing, wet blending, osl, nmm, senmm. I have thousands of hours over thousands of models, and I look at my models and think they're okay. I don't even play wargames anymore, or use miniatures for tabletop games. Since lockdown I just paint to have painted models. I get excited about having painted models. You helped me realize I don't actually enjoy the process of painting.

[@Miniac]

For me, this ebbs and flows. Sometimes I enjoy the process more than other times. Right now, I find the most enjoyment in painting minis for games that I'm playing, or because it's attached to an IP/idea I'm excited about, so not necessarily about the process.

[@lestatsev]

This episode is gold, I consider myself a journeyman in miniature, and display painting and hearing other reinforce what I have recently have learned this last year is awesome ❤ Value & Color !

[@mandalorianknight7002]

One of the greatest things I keep in the back of my mind is a quote from Carrie Fischer: “Stay afraid, but do it anyways. What’s important is the action, the confidence will follow.”

[@jacobtaylor9879]

Big up the Podcast 🙌🙌

[@pcvoigtag]

That was a really fantastic discussion. Thank you for that, you earned your tendies.

[@mightyawesomeminis]

I think this has been one of your best topics to date. Jon's points about gaining experience really remind me about the four levels of competence. Beginner painters are trying to move beyond conscious incompetence, where they are aware that they don't have the skills or knowledge yet, but struggle to know what to do to gain them. More experienced painters have conscious competence, where they know what to do, but still have to put the effort into it more on the theory side rather than the practical side, similar from knowing how to cook a steak, and then understanding what makes a steak good and being able to continuously repeat the results. Then you have folks like Dave Colwell who are at the unconscious competence level, where the bulk of the thought goes into the design and planning stage, rather than the theory and ability. And your points about doing the reps are just as important because so many people spend all their time learning the theory before they actually commit it to muscle memory, which I think is a big part of the feel of how to paint well that you mentioned.

[@PF_K]

Looking at the way some people paint makes me feel like I'm just at the straight up unconscious stage.

[@handlechar568]

Really the best thing about the LOTR behind the scenes is that it's hours worth of pure coziness. I don't know how else to describe it XD

[@alexkotz4908]

Great podcast. So happy I finally listened to this. Gonna be great for bckground stuff while painting

[@PocketPigments]

Caught me off guard hearing my name here lol (Eric Walton), didn't think I had a pending question still - thanks guys, love the content as always! Keep that paint flowing :)

[@matt6387]

This was a super helpful discussion. I started this hobby 2.5 years ago now. Recently i have been going back to an older army to add to it and touch it up and I just have felt in a rut. I like how my models are coming out but like there is nothing special going on. The your “first 50 to your next 150” comment is so true. This episode has really made me see the value in going back like it is day one and maybe relearning some things i use far less or things i never thought to try like osl or nmm. Also this helped me appreciate just how far i have come and being at that point where i know i can just make a model look good or not following box art/other armies online. All things i never thought about when looking at where i am painting wise. Thanks for this episode it was like a kick in the butt to step out of the comfort zone and start absorbing some new techniques and stuff.

[@Pokerzero2099]

Jon, it's days like today where I feel the need to do something I have never done before. Jon, I would like to thank you for your sensible choice in pants.

[@stargazingkiwi]

Great discussion on the hobby journey. Very much enjoyed it! Thanks!

[@U_N_C_L_E_Mike]

You guys are hilarious, i tune in just for the preamble ramble.

[@DeliciousCornbread]

Jon's daughter buying him that shirt is amazing, apple didn't fall far from that tree for sure.

[@AlexisGraf]

I am a full-ass grown adult and I love the Pokémon TCG. Plus you can build a Championship level competitive deck for less than $100 vs the $1000+ for Magic

[@JollyRoger286]

Working with oils today. Let's go boys!

[@nurglematthew893]

Best oils

[@joshuanolet8679]

Trapped Under Plastic: The podcast where the hornier you are for painting, the better your wet blends will be.

[@isisnmagic1812]

Great video, loads to take away as always.

[@nickeddy01]

Love this content. Soo good. You are both hilarious.

[@lachlore]

Solid pod boys, thanks for the ramble

[@zectric4145]

For miniature magnets i crosshatch the base bottom with an xacto for more grip on the super glue then lightly encase it in the gel so it has less chance of just popping off from temp changes over time :)

[@danielb8533]

As someone who has every card of both the Starwars and LotR ganes you are speaking of, those ganes are amazing once you learn how to play it well

[@HydraSperati]

"The rules are simple, as I'm sure they are in Magic" .... my brother in christ 😱

[@SalterThe]

I mean... the basic rules fpr magic are simple. You play mana per turn. You play cards for cost shown on card. You put creatures on board, you choose with whom you attack, they choose who is blocking what. Get opponent to 0 you win. And if you feel spicy, you learn what does kicker and horseman do, and you know all rules in magic. 😂

[@terrencemiltner1005]

Hah, hearing Jon talk about his architecture background I wonder what Black Magic Craft could do with some Ninjon designs. Though he did just build that monster tower so his big project energy may be a little depleted.

[@coreyburge8663]

Look forward to this each time!

[@Ontoshkyo]

Regarding learning new technics - is not only about looking when someone does it, it is also important to find a guide that you will understand, that appeals to you. Because we are all different people, and understand things differently. Thats why different guides on same technique are working for different people differently)

[@zramirez5471]

Damn dude this episode has layers like damn!

[@PatrickM66B]

Love the show fellas. Keep it up.

[@BonsaiNut]

Dude, get a water powered sump pump system like me. No need to ever change the battery or do maintenance. Install once and be good forever. They are a little more expensive but it’s one less thing to worry about and manage. There is no battery so even if the power goes out and it’s storming you are good!

[@liberalhyena9760]

TUP: the podcast that lays bare the psyche of the 40-adjacent mid-western male in a way that redefines the word ‘infantile’.

[@pbkobold]

As a late 30s midwestern male who now lives far away it feels like a little slice of home!

[@liberalhyena9760]

I assumed it must fulfil some purpose but couldn’t work out what it might be. I suppose it’s a niche that needed to be filled, however imperfectly.

[@YeeWhoEnterHere]

With magnetic storage I have found having a metal washer in the base is best for that nice little bit of extra heft, something about all plastic that just seems a little immaterial, just a little bit too lite. Of course with a magnetic sheet in the base of your storage container. If you're not worried about heft, metal from tin big enough to cover the underneath of the base is plenty of grip. Cheapest way I have found to do the magnetic storage thing. And easier to get the materials too. Every craft or... I think you call them dollar stores with all the cheap craft and gift ware shops have magnetic sheeting for kids to craft their bullsh... I mean beautiful works of art for the family fridge, seem to have magnetic A4 sheets.

[@anegativeatheist-9327]

Maybe the issue is that people who stress about learning or being “good enough” should just realize this is a fun and relaxing hobby. You get better through practice, just like every other skill. 😊

[@caiohcoutinho]

"Seatbelt your models" Yes! Once I took a full unit of Skorne Praetorian Swordmen to the coworking I would be playing IKRPG. It wasn't even a hard stop, the street was a bit angled and the box gently scooped to the floor. I had magnets yes, and the models were fine yes, with the single exception of the warlock, which was the actual one I'd be using for my character in the session :| So frustrating

[@kellinbray5347]

I’m loving starwars unlimited. It’s been great to get me back the magic vibe back from when I enjoyed the game. It’s new enough it’s not bloated out, they fixed the stack, and my wife likes that it’s not so complex.

[@NiftyVT2]

Pro tip. Spend the money for a dual sump pump that has the little separate battery backed up pump.

[@Richiv21]

Always enjoy, keep it up.

[@caiohcoutinho]

I have to bookmark this podcast and come back a couple years from now... I understand what you're saying, but still don't grasp it totally... Maybe a couple hundred modles from now =)

[@Dokubus]

How to superglue magnets to gw bases: One easy trick. Take your hobby blade and score the smoothest underaide part of the base. i make 2-3 pound sign symbols (score this symbol a couple times: #) The superglue doesnt have much to latch on with smooth plastic. Give the plastic somw texture and youre good. I use the smallest possible magnets to avoid the model snapping issue

[@Notright9469]

Just a suggestion for the Darth Vader model. For the gloves, incorporate the dark gray stripes from the shoulder piece into the stripes. Just an idea.

[@Thetictacman]

I saw the thumbnail and all i could think is "is that how they bond behind Cane's after a good lunch"

[@Vorpal_Wit]

Jon, 2-part epoxy on regular magnets will never come off. Promise. You will destroy the base before it ever lets go.

[@DaronSchmit]

1:03:10 my pro tip is to gush super glue around like caulking then sprinkling baking soda to lock it in. Haven't had one pop off yet

[@DaronSchmit]

1:11:13 Failure in the hobby is so important and also so temporary. If you don't like the paint job, you can (though you probably won't) strip or repaint a big important model. It's better to do it poorly than to not do it imo. Especially if it's a model you want to play with but aren't because it's not built/painted.

[@DaronSchmit]

1:18:44 one of the things I do frequently when I'm telling someone how to avoid certain issues is I stare at them with a cold dead look in my eyes and say "ask me how I know" because there's usually a story behind it that involves catastrophic failure. Which is both to point out that a person should avoid that fate, but also that it's okay if that happens. I went through it, I survived. Kinda like the kerfuffle with the resin and the ASOIAF minis

[@gekalskip]

Great stuff, here's for the algorithm. Thanks!

[@brianlojeck]

"Painting ain't easy, but it's necessary" -- Big Daddy Cane's Chicken Fingers

[@mylor1066]

Good convo

[@Abaddon1590]

Yes, you can die from too much oxygen. It's usually called overoxygenation, or Hyperoxia.

[@redsven7624]

Jon asked for a comment so, I massively respect his view on painting but cards games - I agree with the decipher star wars game by the Lord of the Rings one was awesome Massively flexible game with multiple victory conditions which allowed you to play both good and evil within one deck. Using a shared resource pool which is generated by current good player and spent by current evil player or players. With real risk and reward style play, with the deck building challenge of not only constructing a deck but 2 that synergized and shared tempo.. Not simple but rewarding - obligatory 4th sentence

[@21melon21]

To the point with the snappy ankles... it's not only limited to magnets, I'm afraid. A test model for my warcry warband snapped at foot when I was trying to remove it from blue tac... I guess it's a penalty for procrastinating on painting the warband until GW axed them (corvus cabal) 🤷‍♂️

[@tinaprice4948]

we have a game store in Seattle that makes simple starter decks that are easy to play, especially for kids, very basic but go together well

[@ElNick09]

Heres something I never hear anyone say: you need 'ugly duckling' or 'side quest' models. Keep just 3 or 4 of those models that DON'T excite you or interest you primed and ready on your desk. Then on those days where you want to paint but dont really have the time, energy, or desire for a long painting session, pick up one of those models and say 'OK, im going to paint for 30 minutes, or 1 hour and I'm going to use technique X. Where technique X is the difficult thing you've been wanting to try/practice but haven't been able to bring yourself to do (non metallic metals, wet blending, object source lighting or whatever). Because you're not emotionally invested in the model you're far more likely to try those things because you don't care about the final result. In my experience, you can find yourself 45% through that process and suddenly interested in the model, because you're actually excited about what you're learning and and the result you're getting. Then you may push it to completion and come out with a model that you're really happy with despite your initial ambivalence, or you will set it aside incomplete but feel no guilt. Either way your going to walk away with a skill boost. Forcing yourself to try new things on a model you like is solid advice, but its also nice to supplement that with these side-quest models to make the most of those low energy painting sessions where you just want to goof off and try something and don't have the force of will to 'go big'.

[@sovietbear1917]

When I bought my first set of inks years ago, I painted a unit of Empire riflemen and they turned out all coffee stained and weird, like a watercolor painting. They're one of my favorite units I've ever done, but I don't have the freedom from knowledge anymore and can't replicate on purpose what I did on accident. I stripped one of the models and redid him, and all the charm is gone.

[@utahgeoff]

Pure O2 doesn't kill you, but I am a buzz kill.

[@chunkycornbread4773]

Unless your diving

[@janviggoneubergjohansen]

Yeah!! Still have my Zombie-deck for multi-player Magic. ❤❤❤

[@robyounce644]

Great stream

[@terrencemiltner1005]

Ugh, water. Took a big flood in 2020 and am finally not getting anxious about rain. Hope you touched base with your insurance agent. If any of the walls are finished, that might need removal.

[@DaronSchmit]

20:06 it's things like this that reinforce to me that "the rules are not the game" The published rules are there to facilitate fun between you and the person/people you are playing with and can and should be disregarded or adjusted where necessary to facilitate that fun. I hear there's lots of SWU PreCon events happening now too, which is super neat!

[@elmothejunkie]

When I was lear I got the drums, I read a review of Jesus and Mary chains, and they said the drummer "just hit it, and hit it again" and that's become a philosophy for me now

[@SeppukoGaming]

Trapped under Plastics, the podcast where Scott tries a scientific approach while Jon freestyles some nitro and glycerin into a mixer, ascing "Does it blend?" *not sponsored by Ninja in any way* Scott's shirt needs to be Iso and Highlights all turned to maximum to capture that pale... Text "THE BEACONS ARE LIT!"

[@Mulmack]

I would like to point out that there is a decent adult competitive scene for pokemon, with a full tournament structure that runs similar to the way magic does it. It is definitely much smaller than magic, and I think the prize support is lower, but it exists.

[@patrickb2736]

My brother and I played star wars ccg lots when it was all the rage. It was a good game, but very complex. You didn't have the rare Vader unless you had the foil Vader from reflections...

[@marantzdantz9685]

That kind of drainage system on Jon's gutters is what's known as a "French drain". French drain is a LOT easier to say than that convoluted mess.

[@chaoticflanagan]

"You're going nowhere!" - wasn't Bonesaw in the Spiderman movie?!

[@nurglematthew893]

Breaking hobby news. Nurgle Bless

[@Gogking1414]

I tried to make intro decks that could play together for MTG, turns out the first magic Game Night was exactly what I was trying to build. Five simple decks with one or two mechanics each that you can mix together once you get there.

[@kirestus]

video idea for jon, Paint the rattlecanned black orcs

[@garyknight3018]

Hit me up, Lorcana Floodborn has just been released here in Australia, still packs and boxes around… we launched the game 4 weeks ago and are catching up to the global releases, so we are getting a set released every 2 weeks!!

[@terrencemiltner1005]

Yup, a nerdy thing to share with your partner is awesome. Not sure I would have stuck with Pokemon Go as long as I have if my wife didn't play too. Lots of trading, walking, and raiding.

[@jacobbalensiefer3846]

My guess for Jon’s project is Wicker Man but it’s rats being irradiated by warp stone.

[@the_Mike_d]

Water, uh… finds a way.

[@TheRainman614]

GW's Chainsaw Warrior.

[@eyflfla]

I tell myself to just paint the damn thing and if I really feel like it's shit, I can print/buy another one and paint it again. I've never felt the need to do so.

[@SalterThe]

Or if you care about money... you can always strip the colour down. Not that I would ever do that... but... I can lie to myself, cant I?

[@Sluggonics]

Hopefully you've got that sump pump rider on your homeowner's policy!

[@loganicles]

I wanna see Daryl's face on the diabeetus shirt.

[@AdmanCoop]

Lets go! I'm never here first.

[@leesweeney8879]

That thumbnail screams these two will do anything for money.

[@elliespohr]

I doubt you really need to pay him to get him to do that.

[@feathered666]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, why don't you guys produce the sprue that you use in the intro - sell them to us. Then produce content individually where you paint it your style and we can submit our paint splattered versions

[@DJRockford83]

The only epiphany you need about water is that it isn't wet 😱 water being added to something makes it wet but if you add water to water you still have water 😳

[@matthewtaylor-h6q]

Was this the first episode where Scot made a movie reference and John didn’t get it?! Also great reference I make it constantly along with the follow up line you know why cause he’s smart.

[@trappedunderplastic]

WHERE YOU GOIN'

[@Mrpancake72]

A mtg format called emperor was really fun

[@blissfulbadger]

Two different S5E12s?

[@mikewicked.x]

Magic the Gathering: Foundations is coming later in the year, which may bring back that entry level product. Even if it's simply another core set in all but name, it'll be better than a block release.

[@garyjenson1326]

Maybe you guys could do a mini segment called: what's on our t-shirts? Jon wth is on that shirt? 😅

[@froggysense]

I think i clicked on the wrong trapped under plastic. Wasnt the kind of "painting" i was thinking with that thumbnail

[@Copoc10]

Was the optic of that thumbnail intentional?

[@JadeCatMinis]

As a newby painter, I've collected minis for years, the cost was only a small barrier to start. More of a barrier was the fear to mess up a model. When i started there was no youtube. I had one hobby store an hour drive away and he wasnt a miniature painter so he had no real advice so i was left to figure it out on my own or with a white dwarf magazine. Needless to say I got nowheres fast. It wasnt until i started to push past the fear and just paint models that i noticed improvement. I still am not super happy with everything i paint but now and then i paint a mini and i see the potential that i have something growing in my own skills. I wouldn't say i have a skill set yet but ive definitely improved since i started. And having finished models is way better than having none.

[@karstedt9987]

Bummer about the tomatoes. Can't just replace those with store bought crap.

[@samd5466]

🎉🎉🎉

[@HC_tim]

Just this one

[@MustbeBen]

I've played Pokemon and it sucks back in the day it was good evolving cards was usefull . now with so many Basics being full evolutions it's stuiped

[@TGodfrey]

👍

[@markcampbell127]

Yeah, pure Oxygen doesn't kill you. Just don't smoke while doing it

[@liberalhyena9760]

Sound advice. Better advice: don’t smoke and expect to receive a human’s regular allocation of oxygen.

[@JustinPivinski-cm2rh]

For the algorithm

[@ZipZapRap1981]

5 minute epoxy

[@mikewicked.x]

Both the Decipher Star Wars, and the Middle-Earth CCGs were pretty great games - but terrible collectible card games. They would've made great Living Card Games, but this style of game hadn't come along yet. The X-Files TCG was similar too. But there were so many legitimately awful card games too.

[@liberalhyena9760]

TUP: the only podcast to receive a lower approval rating than a fan-made bukkake video featuring a re-animated Mother Theresa.