"We" in Russian: an inclusive expression

How do we say "we" in Russian? It seems like a simple question, but there's a common way to express this idea that may be rather different from what you're used to. It also makes clear, unlike "we" in English, whether you're including the person addressed - a distinction that many other languages don't make.
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[@dopeboy8164]

By far the best KZbin channel to learn Russian. Thanks to your videos I passed the language test to obtain Russian residency permit !

[@obedpadilla5264]

I'm so new to Russian. Out of all channels, your videos have been the most helpful so far

[@marycooch7075]

Thankyou for another great video! This expression is one of my favourites in Russian because it is so different from what I know in English - and was so confusing at first! Funny story: When I first began learning Russian I joined a local evening class with an eccentric native Russian teacher, very independent single mother. Had lived in UK for 20 years but still spoke English with a Russian flavour. She came back after summer and told the class in English "We went on holiday with my son and had a great time!" causing much curiosity amongst the students who assumed she had a new boyfriend and a lot of teasing went on :"We? Who did you go with? Who is your new man?!" only to be met by her puzzled expression when she clarified "What are you talking about? It was just the two of us!"

[@russiangrammar]

This story should be told every time anyone teaches мы с тобой! 😂

[@pault207]

Love this Channel. A couple of years ago I couldn't get much because of my very low Russian level. Now I get it all and I feel is pure gold. Thank you very much.

[@osamahxlion9167]

Informative. Thank you

[@marceloprevedi5092]

Спасибо за урок !!!

[@phillippeacock7255]

Thank you. When I first notice this phrase, I asked my tutor but he couldn’t explain why it exits. I just console myself that it might also be translated as “I together with you”. Just a quirk of inclusive idiom мы с тобой.

[@VerticalBlank]

I have come to love the idiom. "We" can mean a lot of things, inclusive or oppositional. I love that there is an explicitly inclusive form.

[@jakethesnake95]

I first heard мы с тобой in the song "Снегопады" by t.A.T.u.: *_"Мы с тобой_* звездами кажемся разными / Ты звезда синяя, я ярко-красная". And speaking of t.A.T.u., in Lena Katina's song "Такси", she leaves out мы: "Разводили *_с тобой_* мосты / Прости, но теряю тебя совсем". But I was still able to understand it, since the verb разводили was in the plural past tense. Context clues are key! :)

[@russiangrammar]

Songs are a great way to reinforce what may seem dry in the textbooks. )

[@jackcollard6921]

I was wondering if you could make a video regarding ‘from’ in Russian? For example, when to use either из, с and от, and perhaps with reference to time expressions? Thank you!

[@russiangrammar]

Have a look at this video on expressing "to" and "from" (they're related, in a way): kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4GuiYp-iKqMfck 🙂 Though come to think of it, that video doesn't cover time expressions, which generally use с + genitive: с понедельника - since Monday с этого момента - from that moment с утра до вечера - from morning til evening со вторника по четверг - from Tuesday til Thursday (inclusive) Я в цирке чуть ли не со дня рождения. I've been in the circus practically since the day I was born. [И. Э. Кио. Иллюзии без иллюзий (1995-1999)] с тех пор - since then С тех пор в Московском зоопарке все время что-то происходило. Since then something was always happening in the Moscow zoo. [О. Г. Баринов. Зоологический сад // «Первое сентября», 2003]

[@VerticalBlank]

Very useful, thank you so much! I'm wondering if it is different between two people "Anna and I went for a walk in the park" and a person and a pet "I went for a walk in the park with my dog".

[@russiangrammar]

Interesting question! It can be used with pets too: 'Как мы с собакой не стали звездами ТикТок' = 'How my dog & I didn't become TikTok stars;' a caption to a picture: 'Мы с кошкой исследуем Выборгскую крепость.' = My cat & I explore Vyborg Fortress.' Google мы с собакой or мы с кошкой for more fun examples. :)

[@VerticalBlank]

@@russiangrammar Thank you! That would also explain why my (Latvian, Russian-speaking) girlfriend tends to say "let's walk with (the) dogs?" whereas in English we would say "let's walk the dogs?" That would be "Давай гуляем с собаками?" I think? Upon reflection, the English use of "to walk an animal" as a transitive verb is probably the outlier here.

[@russiangrammar]

Actually we can say выгуливать/выгулять собаку or погулять с собакой; an unscientific Google search suggests both are fine. This web page on a dog-walking service in Petersburg has both, in consecutive sentences in the first paragraph: www.zaks.ru/new/archive/view/228921

[@VerticalBlank]

@@russiangrammar Very interesting! Thank you!

[@andreii.6094]

@@russiangrammar Your videos are so well made! I thought I'd chime in here. "выгуливать/выгулять собаку or погулять с собакой" is a subtle contextual way to convey the purpose of the walk. "Гулять с собакой" - means going for a walk, it conveys the notion that I would be doing it because I would like to go for a walk and I will enjoy the walk, I could as well go for a walk alone, but I will not go alone but with a dog. "Выгуливать собаку" puts emphasis on the act of taking the dog outside for the benefit of the dog (or dog's toilet needs) because the dog needs it, and de-emphasizes the pleasure of the dog walker. It is more like a chore. I have to do it for the dog, but if I could I would rather stay home! This is a subtle but a meaningful difference. Grammatically, гулять emphasizes the process while выгулять emphasizes the outcome. Бить и выбить. пить и выпить. Чесать и вычесать. First emphasizes the process, the second - the outcome, the end result. The difference is in the prefix "вы-". I do not know if there is a grammar rule for that, though. В солнечный весенний день я бы с удовольствием пошел гулять с собакой. Если на улице проливной дождь, мне пришлось бы пойти выгулять собаку. Oh yes, гулять / погулять.... гулять emphasizes the action, погулять emphasizes the process of walking, but more often than not it is a very minor difference and either can be used. есть / поесть, пить / попить. BTW, It is remarkable how it fits into the topic of this lesson. "я с тобой" is a very common expression, but I would use it instead of "we" just to clarify what I mean by "we" instead of relying on the context. In English, one would say "my sister and I", but in Russian this grammatical construction is never used. "моя сестра и я" sounds foreign. No Russian would say that. Instead, "мы с сестрой" is used. For the purpose of translation (and understanding the usage), they are equivalent. We = мы, My sister and I = мы с сестрой. For me, this construction is not inclusive, it is not to include someone, it is just a clarification. It is used when one wants to be very specific what "we" means, when it is not sufficiently clear from the context, but may be important.

[@yasserbs]

Отличное видео!! Do natives ever use «я с тобой» instead of «мы с тобой»? If so, does that sound weird and around what percentage of the time is «я с тобой» used in comparison with the usual «мы с тобой»? Огромное спасибо)))

[@CrazyDreamer1001]

«Я с тобой» is very common but the meaning is different: "I'm with you" rather than just "we"/"you and I".

[@russiangrammar]

Yes - and with the relatively free word order of Russian, you'll hear examples like "Я с тобой не согласен" = 'I don't agree with you,' or "Я с тобой останусь" = 'I'll stay with you." But note that the subject in these is singular "I," not "we." :)

[@yasserbs]

Спасибо! How common would it be for natives to say something like «я с сестрой пошли домой» instead of «мы с сестрой»? And how common would it be to say something like “я и ты еще поговорим» instead of «мы с тобой еще поговорим»?

[@RanmaruRei]

@@yasserbs «Я с сестрой пошли домой» is incorrect, because «я» Is a subject. «Я с сестрой пошёл домой» is right. «Я и ты еще поговорим», as a native I never say so. It's not wrong, IMHO, just weird. «Я c тобой еще поговорю» is right. The difference there is in context. Who is the actor of the... hmm... story. «Я c тобой еще поговорю» means the actor is me, meanwhile «Мы c тобой еще поговорим» means we are both will be talking.

[@haidyh6587]

Hi professor May I ask a question ? In genitive case plural I know in neutr case that ending with O letter as окно it removes О окон because of two consonants should have a vowel letter between them but in word место it’s мест in genitive plural here there isnot o between c and t while it have two ending consonants why it’s not месот ?

[@russiangrammar]

Great question - I have a video on this at my site, along with two exercises; it's a free preview available at www.tips4russian.com/courses/разное/lessons/из-истории-русского-языка/topic/the-fall-of-the-jers/ But for a quick answer: it's because of historical developments of the language. 1000 or so years ago, there used to be a vowel sound between the к and н of окно; in some words it weakened and disappeared (as in окно), but in others it developed into an о (as in окон). Older forms of место didn't have this vowel between the с and the т, so there was no reason for an о to develop there. But I encourage you to watch the video for a clearer explanation with more examples. :)

[@snoopy1970]

Why is Неделю назад in the accusative case? Is it always that sentences about durations like this are in the accusative case?

[@russiangrammar]

Yes, the accusative is used with назад and when expressing duration, though keep in mind that rules involving numbers may come into play: два дня (gen. sing.) назад, пять лет (gen. plural) назад. In these examples the number itself is in the accusative (no change from nominative), but the form of the noun follows the regular rules for nouns after два/две, три, четыре and пять... there's more on that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHa0lp5oareZiLM .

[@jeffm9227]

I have also seen constructions like The verb is singular implying it's really only the pronoun that is in play. I'm not really sure if this is common or correct though.

[@HalfgildWynac]

Yes, it is interesting how that works when pronouns are involved. *Они* с сестрой *будут* дома also works. If we have two nouns (e.g., мама с Сашей) I would use the singular or the plural depending on whether I focus on the two people of primarily on the first of them. But if it is "он с Сашей"? Definitely singular.

[@russiangrammar]

Do you suppose word order can figure in as well? I'd use singular with Мама была дома с Сашей (Mom was home with Sasha), but it seems that if starting with Мама с Сашей была/были дома, both are possible? Thanks for chiming in Halfgild, I appreciate your bringing the native speaker's perspective.

[@HalfgildWynac]

@@russiangrammar Yes, I think so. Мама and Саша staying together seems important for them to be a single block.

[@andreii.6094]

It is such an interesting video. In my mind, it is not an inclusive, but a clarifying expression. Russian language relies a lot on the context, but in some situation the speaker does not want to rely on the context but wants to be very explicit and very specific. Мы означает "I and someone else", and the context defines who that someone else is. What if one wants to communicate who is that other one? In English, a specific statement replacing "we" would be, for example, "my brother and I". In Russian, I would never say "мой брат и я". Хотя эта конструкция понятна, она не используется. Вместо этого говорят "мы с братом", и единственная причина почему не используется "мы" - is to make it crystal clear that one of to or more people is the speaker, and the second one is their brother. What you brought up is another level of clarification, a fine nuance to emphasize the the focal point of the conversation is one specific person, and the second person is mentioned just for clarification.

[@jeffm9227]

Just to clarify because you mentioned twice, Они с братом could also mean "she and her brother", not just "he and his brother"?

[@russiangrammar]

Yes, good point - it could be either. :)

[@CrazyDreamer1001]

@@russiangrammar Did Russian ever have gender-specific "they", like Polish? (I don't really know Polish but have dabbled in it a bit.)

[@HalfgildWynac]

​@@CrazyDreamer1001 Yes, there was the feminine *оне* (онѣ): Возьмите их!.. Вот оне… ваши бумаги… But there is a catch: its use was arguably artificially introduced into the literary language in the 18th century and fell out of fashion after the 1918 spelling reform.The reform, curiosly, also recommended against using оне, одне for feminine agreement (not that many people would do that in actual speech). Historically, Old East Slavic made 3rd person pronouns she/he/it/they from demonstratives. Two sets of demonstratives, in fact: *онъ* became the Nominative and *и* (е, я) gave the oblique forms его, ее, ей, ему etc. Оный _"this"_ is still a word but we rarely use it. Anyway, the plurals of _он, она, оно_ used to be _они, оны, она_ but then they were all replaced by они. From what I was able to find, the original «оне» was just a dialectal variant of «они», so there was little justification behind assigning it to the feminine plural.

[@CrazyDreamer1001]

@@HalfgildWynac Спасибо! Очень интересно!

[@user-qp2sn1ci4j]

Блин, вот бывает так интересно посмотреть на свой язык со стороны иностранцев, подпишусь пожалуй.