We Know Nothing about the Angel's Heaven

I was a little sick while recording this video, but I think it still turned out okay. This was a lot of fun to try and put together! Angel's Heaven is a very interesting concept.
A lot of this gameplay pictures in this video were taken from ‪@BornLosersGaming‬ playthrough of Deltarune, and you should totally check it out if you haven't!
The person who drew my fanart :D / ar_animates

[@seasaltsky]

about the depths: it doesn't just come from Jevil. it comes from the file name for the GONER_MAKER (Chapter 1 opening) background image (it's called "IMAGE_DEPTH" IIRC) and the Dark Fountains use the image too when it's all gay I mean rainbow colors.

[@LauriWreath]

One thing about IMAGE_DEPTHS is that it is literally just ripping water upside down. If you think about the "song coming from the sea," the sound of falling into a dark world for the first time (which I'm pretty sure is just a wave), and the eroded look of the beginning area of the closet dark world, it seems like dark worlds definitely have something to do with water (which makes sense when you think about the wording of "bubbles").

[@devlinmcguire7543]

@@LauriWreath Also the 'howling winds' in Undertale. I think Darkness is treated kind of like water. DEPTHS, bubbling, song of the sea, fountains, oozing darkness, popping a hole in the ground to cause a fountain like a balloon popping, "It's Raining Somewhere Else", the leaked raining event in DeltaRune from the newsletter... Goner Kid's line about it not raining when you give him an umbrella... There is just SO MANY referenced to water, rain, the sea, and occasionally wind. "Wind" is also a weird thing that appears from time-to-time.

[@brastionskywarrior6951]

Proof dark fountains are gay

[@lipeanimado]

@@brastionskywarrior6951 genius, a gay fountain inside a closet

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

I think that if the roaring comes to pass in a later chapter, we’ll take refuge in the abyss/depths, but I don’t believe it’s the Angel’s Heaven. I think it’s more of a shelter.

[@unfamiliar_ghost]

I love this video so much because I see some youtubers making crazy big theories so it's nice to see a video that just says "this is what we know, these are some possible interpretations but we'll have to wait and see!"

[@browniefox7218]

Thanks! It’s more or less the goal of my series ‘deltarune theory Basics’, bc I think we defo get wrapped up a lot in big theories that at the very least the actual facts gets confused or buried or difficult to find

[@franciscovargas2745]

5:10 I think that the Angel (at least in Undertale) is the player itself, because we are the only ones who make possible both the True Pacifist (break the barrier and release the monsters) and the Genocide ("release" the monsters from the mortal plane) routes, both routes being necessary to be determined and know what to do, because one mistake and you end up with a neutral route

[@lorrainebrunner2490]

Another thing to note is that "666" is the mark of the beast. In Undertale.. well.. weirdly, there actually IS a very beast-like figure that you likely haven't heard of. The dragons that Temmi talks about. NO HEAR ME OUT!!!! PLEASE!! I SWEAR I'M NOT INSANE!! 🐉 In Undertale's art book full of unused ideas, the cave walls in Waterfall depict a dragon-like beast fighting a snake, then the snake running away. This wouldn't be important if not for the fact that it was depicted as PART of the DeltaRune. The DeltaRune was drawn differently too, with a full angel instead of just the wings, right above the dragon×snake fight. That and the DT extracter, the "HyperGonerBlqster" attack, and even the Boss Monster species is theorized to be dragons due to them using fire-magic. 🔥

[@Solibrae]

I've never heard of the Boss Monsters being seen as dragons, but I know that Susie is widely seen as a Dragon Monster, so perhaps she could be represented by the dragon in that version of the mural, if it shows up in DELTARUNE? Of course there's no significance to dragons in UNDERTALE's finalised Delta Rune Prophecy, so perhaps they won't be significant in DELTARUNE's either.

[@Gorfinhofin]

Huh. The boss monsters do bear a resemblance to Falkor...

[@denofcuriousmeltherat8378]

Also 666 is related to good old dice 🎲

[@Mik3l24]

Huh, in the book of revelations, Satan is symbolized by a dragon, so there could be something here. Throwing something crazy here, could Gaster thereby be a boss monster, not a skeleton? Or, another direction, the beast is given power by the dragon... which could be interpreted in various ways with the human souls being borrowed from Asgore. Another digression, 666 is the number of the beast because it is - hear me out - "number of a man". The translation is kinda dated, I've always interpreted "man" here as "humanity", but I'll leave the literal interpretation in context of Deltarune for you all. I really hope though, that the book of revelations doesn't mean that all things called "dragon" are inherently evil and Satan, just that particular one... God, please have mercy...

[@Solibrae]

@@Mik3l24 What if W.D. Gaster turns out to be a dragon-like Monster and also related to Susie? It would explain why she seems to have a bad home life if Dr. Gaster's her father or parental figure, he's probably too distracted by SCIENCE to properly look after her! 😅

[@joewilliams-un8vu]

I really like the idea of there being a place opposite to the depths, Heaven which is what Spamton refers to. Considering Jevil says “Hell’s roar bubbles from the depths” that could mean the depths is kind of like a stand in for Hell. And then the Light World and the Dark World are probably both opposites of each other. I saw a theory where dark worlds are created because Lightners focus determination into their blade and create a crack that spews out a bit of darkness from the depths to create a dark world but not enough to cause the roaring, this is hell’s roar bubbling from the depths because in Chapter 2 when Kris creates the fountain at the end of the game, it actually does look like dark bubbles come out. Bubbling means something is brewing but isn’t fully at it’s peak which explains dark worlds because they are just less extreme versions of the depths. So to clarify, from top to bottom: Heaven Light World Dark World The depths

[@Fastwalker22]

This is a great thing to put together! There's a good number of plot threads that we know a lot about, but this one is definitely not one of them, so it's nice to try and compile the bit of info we got. Also, adding to the pile of Noelle = Angel mentions, in the Spamton Sweepstakes one of the items is supposed to be Noelle's watch (it's even engraved with her name), and Spamton basically says that 1.) The watch was stolen (most likely referencing being able to steal Noelle's Watch in the weird route) 2.) The proof of this is on the watch, which contains "The name of the [angel with the tattered wings]!" (The link that comes with this quote is one of Noelle's blog posts, specifically the one about Susie bullying Kris.) As another Spamton calling Noelle an Angel thing, this is just reinforcing what's already there, but I think it's interesting that he specifically mentions that Noelle's wings are tattered. This has a couple potentially cool readings. 1.) Tattered wings... don't fly, even though they theoretically could if they were healthier. The symbolism of having the tools to theoretically fly but having them be nonfunctional or broken could easily tie into the game's messaging on control/fate/etc. 2.) Tattered wings along w/ the Angel mention kind of bring about the idea of a fallen angel-type thing, and if the Roaring is supposed to be similar to/one in the same as the Angel's Heaven, then the fallen angel image would make sense as a like "Fallen angel brings hell to the world due to their pursuit of heaven" or something. Hell, considering all the "Dark worlds as fiction/escapism" stuff going on with Dark Worlds too, it could be that Noelle immersing herself in the dark worlds where her problems don't exist/can be solved could basically be what she thinks of as heaven.

[@tomtriska555]

An interesting possibility I've heard is that there are 3 main actors with 3 diffirent interests trying to sway the events of deltarune 1. Us, as the angel with the (maybe, because of agency) goal of the angel's heaven, an eternal dark world adventure, an infinite good time. Hard darkness agenda 2. Gaster as the knight, who seems to be seeking a fusion of the light and dark worlds to ascend up to a greater level of existence. Hard light agenda 3. Ralsei who seeks balance between the worlds, as stated in the prophecy. Balance agenda.

[@lourdespachla6516]

I am the knight, actually.

[@confettious]

Something to add about the "players are angels theory" uh. I've always wondered about the Deltarune logo with the three triangles and the circle with wings. So far we can only have 3 characters in a party when playing Deltarune, the three triangles could represent that. The circle with wings can then represent the player. Two of the triangles (1&2) point towards the winged circle while the other one (3) points the opposite. The triangles facing the "angel" could be 1. Ralsei (she seems to be aware of our presence/he knows some kind of script. In Chapter two, Snowgrave, the part where normally the cutscene between Noelle and Susie would happen, didn't happen, and he acts strangely about it. Also in Chapter one, when the cutscene goes back to Kris and Ralsei in the prison, he says something to Kris that we didn't fully see quote "-..so that's why."), and the other triangle being 2. Susie (I can see in later chapters that she will also start gaining knowledge because in Chapter one when Kris was far away from Susie, she said something like "Kris, was that you?" when the player told her a direction to go), then 3. Kris being the triangle in the opposite direction (it's facing the same direction with the winged circle, which can symbolize as us using Kris and leading the trio) The 3. could also be Susie instead of Kris because so far she's the only one we can't control when it comes to making her do actions and is very independent (e.g. she learns to do ACT on her own) and it symbolizes her turning her back on the player and doing her own thing. These are probably not characters who are aware that they are in a game yes. But maybe it varies with perspective, where the characters perceives the player as some kind of outside force “Angels” and they see our real world as “Heaven”. ??

[@lourdespachla6516]

@@confettious ralsei is a guy.

[@confettious]

@@lourdespachla6516 oh ye my bad while rewriting it I must've gotten it confused with Susie's

[@Chowder_T]

My prediction is that the Angel's Heaven is a world without choice. Sort of a "hey don't worry nothing bad will ever happen because I'm (the angel) in control. No choices will ever need to be made hecause you could make a bad choice" type of deal. 5:01 Also that drawing where the ears are being pulled are ridiculously cute it's driving me insane. 5:57 lol at rainbow winged angel Gaster.

[@browniefox7218]

Oh I really like that idea! And yeah the ear pulling one is too cute!!! I have to stop myself from over using it. Also: finally my Gaster getting the recognition he deserves

[@devlinmcguire7543]

I kind of thought something similar too. I like this idea.

[@pablopereyra7126]

Sort of like Pucci's MADE IN HEAVEN from Jojo

[@Chowder_T]

@pablopereyra7126 Hey, a fellow JoBro! :D I wasn't thinking about it when I wrote the comment, but you're right. It does feel very similar to Pucci's Made in Heaven plan.

[@29Naybla]

what if *we* are the angel, and the roaring would be the *barier* of light and dark breaking and mixing both worlds into a new thing, a world where magic is real..? *undertale* /hj

[@gretchling5012]

one small note about the depths - they are technically alluded to twice! the background in the gonermaker opening sequence, as well as the animation for the dark fountains at the end of each dark world, is made from a sprite called "IMAGE_DEPTHS." this is why the depths are usually connected to the dark worlds, and sometimes to Gaster.

[@vevesumi]

maybe the angels heaven is the friends we made along the way! ....wait-

[@ScuttleBugReal]

Banish Ralsei, Susie, Noelle, Berdly, and most of the Darkners

[@TheSkyGuy77]

The Angel's Heaven could be many things. They're NOT the Knight, and that's for sure something we know.

[@MeloniestNeon]

This aspect for me is one of the most intriguing parallels to Undertale in the entire game. I mean, the entire plot of Deltarune was basically teased by the, well, Deltarune in UT and its following quite close to that story. While the exact details are very different the main idea remains the same; If the little triangles don't stop the big bad Angle then the world goes bye bye (Or the angel could be good, as seen in Pacifist, or a pure force of nature only doing what it was made to, hinted at by Neutral being a sort of survival-based route with only a bit of personal experience changing the main outcome) There are so many different possibilities when you take into account how Deltarune is reshaping the exact same symbol that its absolutely wild. Kris' room, of all things, even changes how we view the triangles. Instead of being humans and monsters (Possibly souls due to their alignment) they represent the three heroes facing off against the angel, one Darkner and two Lightners.

[@browniefox7218]

Yeah, it’s super interesting to see how hunts from Undertale are carrying over or being changed. I’ve actually thought since chapter 1 that the triangles represented out main crew, although I thought the two right side triangles were ralsei and Susie, and Kris was the outlier. It’s very interesting to me that Ralsei is the one who stands apart.

[@MeloniestNeon]

@@browniefox7218 Yeah! Its wild how many interpretations of this one symbol there are, and how heavily those interpretations effect how someone views the story of DR!

[@annakwashere]

@@MeloniestNeon True, I'm guessing in the future we might see the symbol in different colours depending on the place it shows up. For example, in the dark world, Ralsei (green) might be facing the other direction because he's a darkner, while mabye in the light world that spot might be occupied by a cyan triangle (representing Kris)

[@MeloniestNeon]

@@browniefox7218 Also! Just a note I clicked with while watching through the rest of the video, Rudy says Kris and Asriel's angel's wings "Got too big and broke off" and holy crap the Spamton foreshadowing is CRAZY there, especially with the light connections to Icarus with the whole molded toy wings concept.

[@estorme1827]

Considering that Toby's desire to create DeltaRune came from a fever dream with a strange game ending, and considering Toby's thing for using 4th Wall Breaks: The Angel's Heaven means the real world But actually... That means something much more "serious" to the lore In UnderTale, the Angel means Chara, Frisk, Asriel... Really? In DR, the Angel is a creature/thing/place/etc that is worshiped in churches and all, so it looks more like a transcendent being... In UT, if we do any Route, every time we "empty the underground" in diferent ways. The Angel isn't a character (or more than one), but the Player itself, performing the prophecy in diferent ways, but the same prophecy. Ok, so, if we are the Angel, and the Angel's Heaven is our world... What does Ralsei mean by "The heroes will banish the Angel's Heaven"? And that's the thing! Ralsei looks suspicious sometimes but isn't cause he's evil or anything, but cause he wants to free Kris (as we see, they talk in particular when the soul, us, isn't looking), banishing The Player or "banishing the Angel's Heaven", cutting our connection to this world (as Gaster says in the begining, "ARE WE CONNECTED?") That would mean that, maybe, seeking the "correct/good" Route in DR we can be banished before even completing the game without reaching that End that Toby describes. But... Something, trapped inside the game, certainly does want us being part of this world Something that is... kinda the oposite of an Angel...

[@Swe3t_Coffe3]

Gonna pull a Moon Knight and throw out a whole load of random ideas and possibilities of varying degrees of credibility. RANDOM BULLCRAP GO! (Long comment warning) - The Angel's Heaven is the Angel's deepest desires, so banishing it would mean encouraging them to let go of them (in a normal route) or perhaps killing them before they can achieve them (in a Weird Route). - The Angel's Heaven is a reset, so banishing it would mean ending the game for good, granting everyone freedom. It feels like the type of Fourth Wall break that Toby tends to do, akin to Omega Flowey taking over the save file. - The Angel's Heaven is actually a "perfect world" of sorts, where the Angel perfectly organises each and every single detail in it. Our choices don't matter in the least here, because everything is under the Angel's jurisdiction. The trio banishes it however so that the people can have their freedom, as this "perfect world" may in reality only be perfect in the Angel's eyes (this one is more of a Gaster exclusive outcome, as he seems like the only one who could pull off such a thing). - The Angel's Heaven is a separate character to the Angel, and is their source of happiness. We have to banish them as while they are good to the Angel, they bring chaos and destruction to the rest of the world. - The Angel's Heaven is actually a plan/concept created by the Angel that, if acted upon, would destroy the world (potentially being equally or even more dangerous than the Roaring? Perhaps it involves the Roaring as a stepping stone to achieve the plan?). The only thing I can think of that is remotely like this is an Undertale-esque situation where the Angel WANTS to incite a Monster-Human War by using the Roaring and blaming it on the monsters. - This one could probably be merged with any of the previous ones, but the Angel's Heaven could be something that both the Angel AND The Knight are working towards. This can also kind of bleed into the "Two Knights" theory a little, where both are opening fountains to achieve their master plan, but The Knight will defect at the last second after an encounter with The Fun Gang (or perhaps several encounters). - Last, but not least (and in a similar vein to the previous one), the Angel's Heaven is actually only a slight variation of the Undertale prophecy, except it is exclusively the Genocide version. By banishing it, we prevent the Angel from killing all monsters. Personally, I do not like this one, as I feel the Angel would have a much larger role than just being an Undertale reference, but I said I'd throw out every possibility that came to mind so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@iinfernox]

I really like the idea that the angels heaven could be a separate entity, maybe it could be Noelle and dess or smthn

[@Low_Sky]

To start, nice reference. Second, I like all these ideas and would like to add my own. What if Angel’s Heaven is the Light World? I mean there’s nothing (To my knowledge) that goes against it, it’s never said that anyone’s ever been there, seen it, or anything of the sorts. Though it COULD boil down to just being a myth/lie.

[@petruciosxd1374]

@@Low_Sky The fountain looking thing with the Delta Rune on it does seem to be emitting light in the picture, what with the shadows behind the trio. That's one of the big reasons some people have considered the possibility of a "Light Fountain", though what people theorize the deal with that would be varies quite a bit. Edit: yes, I remember that the Dark Fountains emit light when inside the Dark Worlds.

[@lourdespachla6516]

The angel's heaven will probably be a place where you NEED to use parts of your computer to progress, a place where reality and dream LITERALLY meet, maybe you will replay undertale INSIDE deltarune, maybe ANGEL'S HEAVEN means undertale, imagine, playing undertale with kris, susie and ralsei, with every other character forgetting sbout you, and instead of an God of hyperdeath, or a Omega flowey, it is THE ANGEL himself.

[@SpamtonSlapper1997]

I think The Angel's Heaven is a response TO the roaring, with The Angel potentially changing depending on the route? I wouldn't be surprised if there's one set The Angel™ we get to replace *with* Noelle by the ending of the game in that One Side B Weird Route Thing. But really, there's just shots in the dark at this point. IRRELEVANT META REVELATION ALMOST ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC OF THE VIDEO (shoutout to 5:07 for somehow thunking this to my head): So, I've always categorized the "Heaven" Spamton talks about, as just The Lightworld. As for him, it would be a higher state of being, where he is no longer beholden to the whims of story telling brought on by The Will Of The Knight Making His Fountain. YOU saying that Heaven is above the lightworld, combined with lining up the 3 potential angels from Undertale, made me notice something about The Deltarune next to Gerson. One of the triangles, the biggest one, is pointing down. [

[@friskdreemurr2663]

THANK YOU for making this video. As someone who thinks about deltarune too much, i've been scratching my head at this "angel's heaven" thing. Ralsei just brought it up one time, and ever since then i've been thinking about the significance of angels in Undertale and Deltarune. What does it all mean??? Who knows. But I'm glad you made this video

[@browniefox7218]

I'm glad people like it! Honestly, I kind of feel like it's something that theorist communities could use more: just, collections of research!

[@Zedryx69]

I'm going to list off some important things to take note of Ralsei is a prince from the dark. Satan is often referred to as "the Prince of Darkness." You mentioned how 666 is "the evil satan number" and Gaster is often tied to it. Satan is also known as a fallen angel. Fallen? We fall when we enter Dark Worlds. Ralsei is an anagram of Asriel. Notice how Ralsei is wearing a cloak similar to that of River Person? River Person says "beware of the man who speaks in hands" which is then tied to the Wing Dings font, W.D. Am I saying Ralsei is Gaster who is also Satan and Asriel? No. That would be insane.

[@petruciosxd1374]

-"...BUT."-

[@shapeshifter16]

I think Ralsei's somehow related to Gaster, but we have no idea how

[@Zedryx69]

@@shapeshifter16 I just listed off several ideas how

[@CalvinNoire]

@@Zedryx69 The Son: Ralsei (Dess?) The Holy Spirit: The Angel (Titans?) The Father: Gaster (Toby fox?) Castle town: Noah's Ark. "Ex tribus, unum. Out of three, one" Now, I don't believe in this theory, but I might be on to something here, switch things up a bit and you got a theory.

[@melodiesblue2442]

the devil is also heavily associated with goats (sacrificial goats, appearing as a goat/with a goat head)

[@bannabrain]

Great theory something of note is that we don’t know if we are the hero’s of prophecy. Actually I got and idea instead of the angel changing depending on your choices what if the warriors Changed. I mean I personally don’t think Ralsei is the dark prince so maybe it could change to be lancer, the vessel, and Noelle. Or something along those lines at the very least I think ralsei tried to change his apperence to fit the prophecy but ultimately it is someone else entirely.

[@stevenclouds]

Given what we saw after Susie took Ralsei glasses away, they look like a completely different person with the Pink Eyes and was shock to see that "Kris" (i.e You) might have saw something you weren't suppose to. Yeah screw "Ralsei".

[@valenmaita537]

​@@stevencloudsWhat when does that happen (not saying your lying, just saying please tell me more I'm interested)

[@browniefox7218]

@@valenmaita537that happens while getting the disk from queens basement for spamton! Kris goes down on their own, and when they come back up Susie stole Ralsei’s glasses, and we get to see Ralsei has very pretty eyes :)

[@valenmaita537]

@@browniefox7218 WHAT I don't remember that at all, I'll take it a signal to replay deltarune, also I really love your videos please keep it up ✨💛💛

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Fighting the Angel would be like tryna fight God. Either an impossibility (bc how could you surprise an all-knowing being?) or a never-ending battle you can never win (again, if said being has the powers of a god, they can't lose.). In essence, the Angel has to be something on OUR level as players of this game. Like.... the developer of the game himself, perhaps? I am so excited to find out the rest of DR's story!!!

[@apollyonnoctis1291]

Or perhaps, and stay with me here… *We* are the Angel. As in us, the Player. The song that plays whenever we seal a fountain is ‘Your Power’ Whenever we save, the text says that we’re ‘filled with power’ Where else is the word power specifically mentioned? At the church, where father Alvin tells Kris, “may the Angel’s power light their way” The dark world village is named after us, the player. Every dark world’s castle where their ruler lives is modeled after said ruler. And what does *our* castle have? *Angel Wings* “May the Angel watch over you.” We see the world of Deltarune from a top down perspective, as in, we look at Kris from above. Noelle calls says she can hear a disturbing, indistinguishable voice in the weird route that she says is definitely not Kris’. An angel figurine next to Rudolph is described as both creepy and faceless. The Angel’s Heaven could be our real world, as by finishing the ‘story’, the game ends and we can no longer meddle with their world, ‘banishing’ us.

[@eltiolavara9]

oh god... the ending is going to be toby fox's adress and an invitation to beat him in a 1v1 at smash

[@lorrainebrunner2490]

I think that the angle probably is the voice that cuts off Gaster in the vessel creation sequence. Because this mirrors Undertale. Hey. Quick theory to throw out here but... I think I've figured out who we the player are in DELTARUNE. We are............................ a monster. OK!! NOW, COME ON, HEAR ME OUT! PLEASE! In Undertale, Flowey becomes "Omega Flowey" after attaining the 6 human souls. Right? And what did he do after his speech right before his battle with us?... He saved. But NOT ONLY did he save. The exact text used was "FILE 3 SAVED". And he showed that he was fully capable of making new saves and loading them just for the sake of throwing us off, while always keeping a 3rd file from the very start of the fight so that it's impossible for him to ever lose to us. And a later save file made when we are at 1hp to make sure that we're hopeless. ... Sound familiar...? Yep. Omega Flowey is literally using the DELTARUNE's in game mechanics to fuck with us. He 100% has 3 save files. And before that... He overrode ours. Hell, with "Erased" being shattered into a pieces, he can also erase our "SAVE FILES", though not actually the timeline itself. Only Asriel + 7 souls can do that. You know, destroy timelines. Now... what was it that Gaster/Geoff said when we copied all 3 save files to be exactly the same again...? OH YEAH! *_"Preparations have been made."_* As in, the same way that Omega Flowey made every preparation to stay safe while ensuring that we die to him. But Omega Flowey actually did need all of that. He alternated 2 saves to continuously lower our health bit by bit, and kept 1 untouched where he starts with full health, so he can just do it all again if he ever somehow failed. So... here's my theory. We are somehow in cannon, something that is on par with at least Omega Flowey or greater. Whether that's literally us the player breaking the (-4'th wall?), Cthulhu, a monster or object given DT with 6+ human souls, it doesn't really matter what specifically. "Geoff" is helping us navigate this new found power of ours, more explaining it to us and observing. Our SOUL also isn't necessarily the same SOUL from the opening cut scene/vessel creation. We are asked if we are connected. Make a vessel. Then It is discarded. Then We are told that: "Nobody chooses who they are in this world. Your name is . . . . . . . . ..." Then Kris wakes up from be and the game starts. We ASSUME that the voice is saying that we are Kris. BUT, what if it is a diforent name? Is it... OUR name, as in the chosen name for the player? Frisk or Chara? Dessember? Something else entirely? Literally ASRIEL?? It is never actually confirmed what the voice was saying. But you're asking right now "Ok, I get it, but how is this important?". Well, Toby Fox is known for his progressive story telling. Including shy characters like Whimson, depressed characters like Napstablook, gay characters like the royal guards in Hotland, the Trans allegory in Mettaton, etcetera.... So... Why would he suddenly be trying to make a message about things like "In this world, nobody can choose who they are." all of a sudden? That's a pretty drastic 180\* heel turn. But what if... This voice that tells us this, is thus the true villain? Like, Flowey had a morbid outlook/philosophy on the world. "In this world, it's **KILL**. OR. **BE. KILLED**." And he was introduced at the very start of Undertale. So I theorize that this voice is the angel somehow. Flowey/Asriel became an "Angel of Death" and looks just like the one Gerson describes in Undertale. If Deltarune is a spiritual reflection sort of speak to the things in Undertale, it makes sense that the big-bad will be reveled to be an angel as well. Especially how it opposes Gaster/Geoff in the vessel creation who is always associated with "666". Especially because of it's own morbid message. One that's also asserted by Susie, despite seeming to want to change herself. You know what I mean. Like, her being stand-off-ish and only out for Number#1!, even declaring how Kris must see her as the trouble maker, only to become nicers and learn a little bit that that can't be fully true. In other words, the voice is the embodiment of a an idea in the story. The story will over time try to break down and demolish this idea, and explain it through Kris, Susie, and other characters. Even Ralsei is like "What is being Ralsei-like...?" on the river boat in Ch-2, and learning to change himself to *sometimes* use violence. As indicated by helping the Card King which backfires, saying that breaking bonds might make you stronger, etcetera. I think that we may see Ralsei's view of the world become darker and darker while still remaining himself, while Susie's views will become better and more hopeful, because it's a change from who they once were, and subverts the message that you don't get to choose who you are. So in short, if we can't say that the second voice was talking about Kris when talking to us, it's possible that this scene is COMPLETELY out of context, like the flash-backs in Undertale. It's my personal head cannon and theory that Frisk and Chara are one and the same, and that Frisk is a pseudonym Chara gives to Asriel and everyone else for personal reasons. Maybe because they know that it's really "us the player" that's living their life now. So the way that we "name the first fallen human child" maybe they gave US the name Frisk in turn, if that makes sense. It's not a part of what I've been talking about but like how I would support that with "Us"/Frisk experiencing Chara's memories, I could argue that the whole vessel creation thing or at least the second voice could be a flash back to a different time, or (if my Chara=Frsik theory is shit...) it could even somehow be someone else's memories. Like, a flash back for Us the players specifically, not for Kris. Maybe this could make more sense Sorry, I hope I am not rambling too much. Again, this isn't my response to your response to my response of your response. This is just a few random unrelated thoughts I've been thinking about. Sorry If I rambled on for too long. I type a LOT and love writing! Ho! And also\~ PS. The way that a dark fountain has a colorful rainbow background and when you close it, it has music including air guitar instrumentals that sound ***suspiciously*** like a certain chord in Hopes and Dreams... suggests that there is some kind of relation between Hopes and Dreams and the closing of Dark Fountains. But what exactly I cannot pinpoint. xP To be fair, I only have two chapters out of 7 (maaaybe 9 because of the unseen Chapter8 and 9 files in the code) of information to work with here. I feel like once chapters 3-5 come out, it might even be possible to analyze the information and the themes to such a degree that we could figure out the contents of 6+7 (and maybe 8+9) without the chapters. But that's a theory maybe not even Mat Pat would touch. (Before this starts, have you played Omori? I’m basically done typing this out and wanted to make a comparison to it since Toby mentioned before that Omori was similar, but if I asked this question in the section that pertains to it then you might get an Omori spoiler from the context.) Ok this is neat! I don’t have much to say about it, but I will point out that Omega Flowey seems to be using the fallen humans’ save files. [This Reddit comment sums up the theory really really quickly](www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/101nv2p/h_e_l_p/j2onrst/), while someone under it comments the Tumblr link that goes into more detail. This makes sense given the context that he’s using their SAVE files against their will and also explains why they were able to get the files back eventually. He also uses File 6 at one point, but we don’t have 6 files. You’re also right about the name cutscene possibly just being a flashback- Toby really, REALLY likes hiding names from us for some reason (My name is… \[wakes up before he says “Asriel“\], Frisk? That’s a nice name \[at the literal end of the game\]) so maybe that’s what he’s doing here. Although saying that Frisk=Chara is a bold theory and I can’t say I completely agree (I think of it as a partial possession type of thing) that’s still a neat headcanon and it shouldn’t get in the way of our theories. (Oh and you don’t have to apologize about rambling, I totally get it. I’m mainly happy to find someone else who loves rambling about Deltarune!) And so if you think that the voice interrupting the intro is the Angel. That’s a good idea too, especially since Gaster (if he is the first intro voice) has stats with 666, an evil number which would be the opposite of an Angel. Also I don’t want to get too deep into a rabbit hole with these numbers, [I did just do a search and find that: www.allure.com/story/what-are-angel-numbers >Within numerology, angel numbers are number sequences (usually three or four numbers) that contain repetition (such as 111 or 4444) and/or patterns (such as 321 or 8787). And apparently 666 is still an angel number too, which is an interesting thought. Maybe it has a double meaning? The Angel being the embodiment of “You have no choice in this world” and the game disprove that, that IS kind of going to be the same conclusion as Undertale. It might be more about acceptance and moving on, due to the themes of memory and loss of something unknown in Deltarune. Like "Don't forget" for forgetting (something) being in Sans' basement.

[@MAXIMUMPOWER42]

What is going on with this comment? Is it a conversation?

[@felipovisk972]

woah

[@lorrainebrunner2490]

@MAXIMUMPOWER42 yes actually. Also I made the conscious decision to say this 4 months late. Woops. Sorry. 🤷‍♂️

[@lorrainebrunner2490]

@@felipovisk972 Hey, thanks! 😊

[@olivernorager]

Gyftrot Dess was not what I expected from that poll lmao

[@Tripleseven09]

Yep, I for some reason made a theory chart about Deltarune, and, yeah, nothing about the Angels Heaven, I believe it means the Angels new world order that will come after The Roaring, I also believe The "Worlds Edge" Mentioned in the Prophecy, is the place that'll form

[@akirapink]

8:47 if the angel's heaven is reality itself, kris banishes it by coming out of the computer monitor and taking your place like a skinwalker

[@mertensiam3384]

I like the idea thst the angel is actually the player, and the angels heaven is the connection of the player with this world, because, by banishing the angel's heaven, the characters will cut their connection with the player, and thus making the "only 1 ending?" quote make more sense. If the ending of the game is always banishing the angel's heaven, and that is what the game calls your connection with the game, then even the act of deleting your savefile would give the same ending to the game: cutting the player off.

[@DogsRNice]

It does kinda sound like it could also be some really strong spell or something Kinda like Holy from final fantasy 7

[@boyboilNEO9055]

Imagine if Noelle is the angel and the final boss of deltarune, after you beat her this cutscene plays out. Noelle “I’m weakened but I’m still strong” ralsei “I’m sorry Susie” ralsei then fires a healing projectile, Susie ”RALSEI YOU IDIOT”, the healing projectile reaches Noelle, then suddenly red 9’s appear all across the screen and Noelle falls to the ground.

[@michaelkindt3288]

@6:48-.-LET'S GOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! (Though I'm also partial to Noelle's mom being the "faun" NPC in the lesser dog room of Undertale.)

[@redrooster3420]

I really adore how you include these backgrounds that reference the theme of each vid :) It's so satisfying and cool!

[@EtchJetty]

i'm totally convinced that the HUMAN/MONSTER/PRINCE FROM THE DARK combo are NOT Kris/Susie/Ralsei. Monster seems likely to be Noelle, and Prince could be Lancer... but another human? Unless there's a big twist where the Red Soul is the other human, or something else... Who knows! EDIT: Maybe the non-Kris Human is the Goner Maker kid, and our Red Soul gets transferred into it... It's all up in the air! So so so much to speculate on, even WHEN parts 3-5 come out.

[@CricketyCrickey]

That'd be a really big plot twist, considering all the info we have; but Toby Fox is a curator of the unexpected, so we won't know for sure just yet.

[@deesnyder8201]

Lancer doesn't really seem major enough as a character for him to be the one to actually replace ralsei. He is like 95% comic relief. but honestly you never know for sure with Toby

[@CricketyCrickey]

@@deesnyder8201 He also refers to himself as "Jack Lancer" although technically a prince(??) and Ralsei actually is a prince

[@loganon2216]

@@CricketyCrickey Lancer is a former prince as king was dethroned, making him a king of sorts. Ralsei however? Ralsei doesn't seem to be the successor of ANYONE, thematically or not, as such Ralsei would also be either a king or groundskeeper. This does leave a dark prince sized hole in the world of Deltarune tho... still have 5 or more chapters to go so who knows if that'll be resolved or if they'll just ignore it yet!

[@ItsMeConnor3]

I believe that the Angel’s Heaven is us, the player. “Someone who has seen the surface and will free the monsters”. The “heaven” is our world. And the reason why the Angel’s Heaven would be banished, we’re taking control of Kris. We have to be banished so Kris can be free.

[@herothecrow994]

Great video on a topic I've mostly only seen people brush over. Just to clarify, "The Depths" specifically refers to whatever area Gaster speaks to you in the beginning of the game, and where the vessel creator is. The name comes from the image in the background, which is titled something along the lines of "IMAGE_DEPTHS" in the code. I think that what with the legend claiming that the heroes banish the Angel's Heaven, it makes sense that The Angel in Deltarune is the Angel of Death that Gerson mentions in Undertale, since the Heaven of an Angel of Death would pretty much be equivalent to Hell. You banish the Angel's Heaven by quelling Hell's roar. Makes sense to me. I think it makes the most sense that Noelle would be the Angel, there's just too much symbolism for it not to be her. Or it could just be a red herring, but I think it's her. The implications that the heroes are going to banish Noelle's heaven is intriguing, and the first thing I think of is that her heaven is Dess returning. What I think is going to happen in the future is that when the Roaring happens and the Depths bubble up, Dess is going to return to the light world, and Ralsei is going to say that we need to send her back to the Depths, obviously at the objection of Noelle. Maybe we'll get to fight her at some point, that would be cool. And possibly traumatic, but still cool.

[@shibafox]

Still early into the video but it was brought up that we don't know if Spamton's idea of heaven was of the lightworld or our world- as the darkners may not realize that they're toys in the lightworld. If I remember correctly, the reason that King and other darkners had grown to hate the lightners was because they felt abandoned by them- the classroom was abandoned and there was no one left to play with them. Lancer (and Rouxls) jump into your pocket as you return to the lightworld, seemingly aware that they would become items. To me, this seems to imply that at least on some level- darkners are aware of their context in the lightworld. Now, Spamton was off his damn rocker but he seemed adamant about him and Kris reaching heaven together (I mean, in the context of taking Kris' soul with him but still). He was projecting his desires onto Kris in the same way he does his trauma throughout the chapter, but he genuinely seems to consider them friends on some level. If heaven was just the lightworld, how would that benefit Kris in any way? Returning to the lightworld wouldn't free Kris from their strings. I really think that the knowledge passed onto the secret bosses by Gaster is that they exist within a video game. Spamton wants to regain control of his life, and even in the lightworld that wouldn't be possible as he's still bound by the programming of the game. Jevil on the other hand, realizing that he exists within a game- he takes that to believe that nothing matters. They're not "people", they're but code- playthings. But not playthings in the way that ch 1 darkners are already aware, they're playthings to beings far past the realm that exists within the confines of the game. With the meta element of Kris being aware of their control by a being outside of the bounds of their world, I feel like it makes perfect sense that that would be the information Gaster imparts to the secret bosses that broke them.

[@blackchestnut]

Really good video, I would like to say that if the angel is meant to be the player and the angel's heaven is the real world then banishing the angel's heaven could simple mean beating the game so that it ends are ability to interact with the game, their for banishing us form the game, of course that's just if the angel is the player. But I also think it's possible that the angel and the angel's heaven are meant to represent more then one thing, I think it's totally possible that the angel is meant to be both the player and Noelle with the angel's heaven being a dark world she made that we need to seal in order to stop the roaring and the real world, in theory Noelle might take the soul and absorb it and become a very powerful being in the same sense as what Asriel and Chara did in undertale, so basically we would be playing as the finale boss and be fighting the party. it's just a thought though I'm not like crazy convinced that this will happen, but I think it could be cool.

[@BraveGamerTV]

Underrated, loved the info and also the character art.

[@CalamitasCalliope]

I've personally been warming up to fourth wall breaking more and more lately, but yeah i agree that i doubt the player is the Angel. I mean we are controlling the Soul, and if we are going to be opposing the Angel in some way that doesn't fit very well. However i do like the idea that the light of heaven could be a representation of the influence of our world. I'm borrowing a lot from MollyStars' Device Theory so anyone reading this should watch that for more info. Actually you should probably watch it anyway, it's really good. When a character in the light world creates a dark world, it is like they are creating a fictional reality nestled in the light world. We don't know what would happen if a Dark World was made inside a Dark World, but theoretically it would be a second, distinct fictional reality nestled inside an already fictional one. If you apply that knowledge in a meta sense, the Light World is already a fictional reality nestled in our real world. All the characters believe that they are real people when they're just sprites and lines of code, just like how Lancer believes he is a real person when he's just a playing card in the Light World. When the game is closed, these characters do not exist. When we open it they do. By observing them, we are giving life to them in the same way Fountains give life to objects. Spamton wanting to escape to heaven could be seen as him being made aware of that existentially horrifying fact, and wanting to escape it even though that is impossible. If the light of heaven is our observation of the reality that doesn't really explain what the Angel is though, but i would put my money on Noelle. She is drawn to video game glitches and exploites and i think it would be fitting for her to be the one filling that role. Since it is just an Angel and not a God, the Angel doesn't have to have any power over Heaven so Noelle doesn't even need to be aware of the truth of what Heaven is to act as the Angel. In my dreams of what this story is gonna do, i hope that Gaster and the Angel will be in direct opposition. Gaster fits so perfectly as an agent of darkness with his whole everything, and if the Angel is Noelle she is such a perfect counter to him given her connections to him.

[@EldritchAccount]

This is what I've been waiting for!!! Personally if we go over the assumption that Noelle is the Angel... It could still literally be 'The Angel's Heaven.' With Dess missing (And possibly dead) and Rudy sick... I don't THINK Dess is the angel. But... I'm quite sure she's at least related.

[@whact]

I was just thinking about this yesterday when i replayed The game's intro

[@mordenator865]

Cool video 😎. Also I really like that outro its looks awesome

[@hbudson1248]

I'm personally of the belief you briefly mentioned about the Angel being the player, and this comes from the specifics of the term "Angel's Heaven" and this event's ties to the Roaring and therefore the creation of dark worlds See, the more dark worlds there are, the more game there is to play. As such, a scenario like/stemming from the Roaring would be a player's- the angel's heaven. A game that never ends. Plus it still works with Undertale's prophecy, because no matter which route you play, we show up and the Underground most certainly does go empty Edit: I also think it makes a LOT of sense with what the Delta Rune itself seems to me to depict- 2 from above and 1 from below (the triangles pointing in the directions corresponding to the light and dark worlds respectively- 2 for light, 1 for dark), and one higher being above them all Edit edit: Alvin's "let the Angel's power light your way" thing is EXTRA interesting in my opinion, with how similar that seems to the "the power of [blank] shines within you" save point text. Although, that could be used for a variety of theories tbh

[@CricketyCrickey]

Ooh, I haven't seen many videos explaining this exclusively. These are all really interesting, and I hope this gets more attention later on. Great job!

[@curlyfordoge4366]

A possibility I've seen floating around for what the Angel's Heaven means is one that combines "Noelle = Angel" and "Dess = Knight", wherein the title Angel's Heaven is possessive (i.e. Heaven for the Angel) and is something that the Knight is trying to create in the name of the Angel. I.E., in DessKnight, Dess trying to bring about a Heaven for her sister. A similar reading is of the "Angel" part just being an adjective to describe this 'Heaven' in a way that evokes religious imagery without the creator literally making it in the name of the Angel (in the style of things such as "I shall make a Heaven fit for an Angel!"), though that one I think is less likely.

[@Dalller_]

That end card looks like a rap battle setting in Friday night Funkin’ with you sitting up there lol

[@roysparkizay]

another great video. also, there's a neat video by brix that explains their interpretation of the depths, which i don't entirely agree with, but is a good watch regardless

[@michaelkindt3288]

@6:08-.-I like your azure Sprite.🤣

[@Ralseify]

BRO, THAT OUTRO That's so cool, idk why it stood out, but it's a fun idea

[@memevondank1197]

Also gaster is associated with 6 Because his unused stats in ut List him having 666,666 atk and def so hes more just associated with 6 And i have one theory the depths are reached by making a dark fountain in a dark world dragging you deeper

[@daniellelondon439]

Playing too muck totk lately so when you mentioned “the depths” I thought you were talking about The Depths. Also love the silly little gaster doodle!

[@BmuXD]

My theory is that heaven is where light comes from, and the depths where darkness comes from And we know that Gaster talks to us in the depths, bcs the background at the start of the game where Gaster talks to us, is called the depths in the game files. So maybe Gaster is the devil. We know that Spamton wants Kris and himself to fuse together by taking Kris' soul and so go to heaven, so why would Ralsei want to "vanish" heaven? And i dont think sealing the dark fountains and let only be light in the normal world could posibly "restore" balance between light and dark for obvious reasons. So either Ralsei is lying to us, or is being tricked by someone. I mean, he knows how the player is called, bcs he names the town after our name, and the only person to know our name is Gaster, so why would Ralsei know our name? Did Ralsei made contact with Gaster and he told Ralsei a fake history to trick us and bring the roaring for a experiment?

[@Isuream6331]

I have to wonder if the player is the Angel, and our Heaven is the game itself. By banishing the Heaven, and presumably whoever put us in Kris’ soul, we remove our control on the game, therefore ending the game itself

[@kainaris]

im not surprised you got fanart i love your theory videos but i absolutely love your character as welllll also idk i think angel's heaven is probably just the light world but maybe that's too simple

[@browniefox7218]

Thanks! And I mean it defo doesn’t need to be complicated, light world is pretty likely :D

[@sahilhossain8204]

Lore of We Know Nothing about the Angel's Heaven momentum 100

[@nerm7992]

Y'know, having heard everything together, I wonder if *we* won't be the final boss? After all, if there's "The Depths", and Dark Worlds are just little creations from things within the light world, then going by nomenclature similarities, the Light World would also be one of many possible realms, created from something in a 'upper' realm, like from game code on a desktop, one of *many* difference games, all of which counting as their own light worlds. In turn, if we are to assume that indeed, Heaven is the computer upon which we run the game, then it stands to reason that we, as the player, are the "angel". Just as we played as someone from a higher realm in Undertale and came to 'free' everybody, so too do we now play as someone from a higher realm, *ourselves*, seeking, albeit unwittingly, to 'free' everybody in Deltarune. In turn, *sealing* the "Angel's Heaven" is the trio cutting *us* off from their world, cutting the connection that Gaster/The Unknown Person at the Start of the Game, helped us to create.

[@reolives]

GYFTROT DESS /RISES UP

[@Blackrose7_-]

Actually, we do know about the Angel's Heaven. It's in Undertale though, and you need to find the sound test room. There are two songs that stand out called happy town and meat factory. Happy Town is Angel's Heaven, and it's the fake paradise Ralsei mentioned. Meat Factory is Angel's Hell, and well, it would be related with what Gaster is doing with the goners.

[@autumnwolverton4154]

My theory has always been that the Angel's Heaven is something that Noelle is going to try to bring about at the end of the game. Rudy... Isn't doing well, and we know he's already dead in the Undertale universe. So I think that he's going to die before the end of the game, his dust will be spread on his favorite object (probably the angel doll that Noelle and Dess made), and Noelle will create a powerful Dark Fountain at his funeral to try to resurrect him as a Darkner. Noelle has already been referred to as an Angel, and at least in Abrahamic religions, "Heaven" is specifically an *afterlife,* which is what Noelle would be trying to create here. Her doing so would probably bring back Gerson and everyone else in the graveyard too, at least before they (and Rudy) all turn to statues because of the Roaring. I could see a lot of juicy character drama from Noelle not wanting lose even more of her family after whatever happened to Dess, and being willing to go to dangerous extremes to keep her dad around, and Susie and the others feeling terrible for having to stop her to save the world. Of course, now that I've seen this video, I realize that this interpretation kinda conflicts with the way Spamton talks about [HEAVEN], as though it is something that already exists and is watching and could be reached with enough power. So I'm probably wrong here. Whatever the Angel and their Heaven end up being, I'm sure it'll be a fantastic way for this fantastic game to see us off! Thanks so much for this great video! I'm just now discovering your channel, and I really like all your analysis so far! And please give my compliments to your sister(?) for that adorable jackalope avatar!

[@why5757]

I like to think that the angels heaven is the players connection with deltarune and by banishing it we softlock ourselves from that save file

[@sagacious03]

Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!

[@lbsc1201]

I would not be so certain that the "Angel's Heaven" and the broader apocalypse the Legend talks about are the same thing as the Roaring.

[@Snow-vk7th]

I've heard people theorize heaven and hell are actually the same thing. We don't have proof of what they are, so I guess it could be. Maybe it just depends whose perspective you're in. Jevil called it hell, but Spamton holds out hope for this place- so he calls it heaven. Idk there's some pretty cool videos on it. Great video though, really got me thinking.

[@digestivecookie7026]

This isn’t really an indicator Dess could be an angel, but if she is in the Depths, considering Noelle’s connection to angels Dess could be a “fallen angel” analogue to her

[@emeraldtheproducer9]

I hadn't realized until I watched this, but there is one more thing we can derive from what Ralsei says about the Angel's Heaven, and that's that it ISN'T a fountain, since banishing it is separate from the sealing of fountains. That said, this isn't super solid, since the prophecy, as stated so far, is phrased dramatically, so I can't say it's certainly separate, but I'd hedge my bets for that being so.

[@devlinmcguire7543]

Hey... Like... What if.. Like... The Angel's Heaven and Hell... Are _literally_ just straight up heaven and hell? Like, we KNOW with 1,000% certainty that SOULs do exist. So... Where.... do souls go when someone dies? Well, you'd think it would be heaven and hell. So. Like. What if it's very literally just Heaven. And Hell. No balls. Just, the actual place, and not a metaphor for anything?

[@TotalWhackjob]

So is the whole "the Depths" thing connected somehow to Onionsan's spooky song from the oceanic abyss he talks about? I don't know if actual physical depths below sea level and metaphysical hell "depths" should be assumed to be related but I always kinda figured it would be...

[@browniefox7218]

I don’t know if it’s confirmed to be, but I personally think it is. I almost mentioned that in this video but decided it would’ve muddied up the focus. The whole thing with the ocean is so interesting, makes me think of that one Undertale animation (can’t remeber if it’s based on a bit of game diaglue?) where Alphys is taking about the waterfalls leading to another world

[@Crackers0106]

we may learn more about the angel's heaven in chapter 4 since all evidence seems to point towards that being a church dark world

[@Monkebs45]

I think the Angels heaven is the world of Deltarune as a whole and Gaster is the angel. He made a world where there is no magic. Monsters bleed, no one got sealed away, and he can live safely forever. The trio finds out and tries to banish their world, go to the Undertale world at the end, and kill gaster.

[@CongregationGDReal]

NEWS‼️‼️‼️‼️ Toby himself confirmed the angel’s heaven is indeed Detriot, Michigan

[@lourdespachla6516]

And on the other side of the spectrum, hometown is on detroit, michigan, pretty close to detriot, michigan.

[@CB0516]

i think that the angel's heaven might be the apocalypse that happens when there are no dark fountains.

[@leondyer3855]

I think that the angel's heaven would essentially be a localized area within the roaring where the darkners are not turned to stone and the lightners can still do their thing, but banishing said heaven would be necessary to undo the roaring. Basically, the angels heaven in my mind would be submarine castletown theory but instead of a yellow submarine a la beatles, it's a penal colony like old Australia

[@leondyer3855]

This ties into the whole escapism thing by essentially showing what happens if you delve too much into fantasy, where IRL problems (in this case the titans) can be created or allowed to grow by trying to ignore them. Think the musical "Cabaret" but with shadowy kaiju instead of goosesteppers

[@mewcifer868]

Angel's heaven Jevil mentions hell If the angel is fallen, the angel's heaven would be hell

[@GodChaos333]

I do like your avatar. And the style of your videos. I am glad you made more videos. I will sub for sure. Keep going!

[@TheSkyGuy77]

I think Gaster (or Geoff?) is just the server administrator helping us exist in Deltarune's worlds.

[@Mr.Snekofsnex]

GYFTROT DESS.

[@Mik3l24]

Darn, I wanted to make a similar video... 😅 But I guess it wouldn't have had art as nice as yours. Or... the evidence actually listed in an organized way... Though, I've got some different ideas, so it could be still valuable to the discourse... and I'd like to focus a little bit more on the "Fallen angel" angle, as I know a decent bit about these kinds of topics in IRL Christianity... or at least, the interpretations from a particular denomination.

[@spacealien3073]

Its quite coincidental because I actually made a post just a couple of days ago on social media saying I was a bit disappointed I didn't see theorists ever really discuss Angel's Heaven even though it seems like a pretty important part of DT's lore. Personally I think choosing a dark prince goat (pretty Satanic imagery all things consider) to tell us we need to banish what seems to potentially be the realm of the God of this world is a fascination choice. Also based on what Toby has noted over the years it seems Ralsei was probably designed BEFORE the Dreemurr family so "oh he's just a goat monster because Asriel is one" is likely untrue. Also since you briefly go over it a bit its also worth remembering the number of the beast (666) is also associated with the antichrist and the end of time which is... also an interesting choice when your narrative prophecy seems to involve stopping an apocalyptic event by banishing the realm of a higher power. EDIT: Oh I should also mention even though its probably not intentional but magic is consider a satanic thing within Christianity so Ralsei being the mage of the party is also pretty fascinating. That said since Noelle is very heavily associated with angels and other very wholesome Christian stuff (like she's literally named after Jesus' birthday!) and she also uses magic I doubt Toby is trying to claim magic user= devil.

[@krazyivan9733]

It's pretty simple really. We, the player, are the Angel's Heaven. First let's look at the name "Angel's Heaven" itself. Think about this logically first, then morphologically; Heaven does not come from Angels, Angels come from heaven, therefore, "Angel's Heaven" should be read as "the person/place/thing responsible for creating the Angel". It also makes sense in context of the Prophecy; if the Angel is the the threat, then getting rid of whatever creates the Angel before it can do so effectively removes the threat of the Angel itself. But why do I say that The Player is the Angel's Heaven? First of all, *the player was already the Angel's Heaven in Undertale.* According to the prophecy of the Angel told by the Waterfall plaques and Gersons explanations, there are two possible candidates for beings that the player can cause to become the Angel, that being Asriel, who becomes the Saving Angel in the True Pacifist Route, and Chara, who becomes the Death Angel in the No Mercy route. Either way, the player is required to be there and undertake specific actions in order to awaken The Angel, therefore making the Player the entity responsible for creating the Angel. But you know what's interesting about that? The exact same thing can be said about the Weird Route. So now that I'm on to Deltarune, let me just say right here and now, Noelle is very clearly our current candidate for awakening as the Angel. Not only does she dress like a literal Angel, she speaks about growing big angel wings, she gets referred to as "Angel" multiple times in the weird route, and on top of all that, multiple references are made in the weird route about Noelle "awakening", which is very specifically a word that Chara used when describing what happened to them over the course of the No Mercy route. Queen even ominously states that Noelle has "Already Awakened Too Much" Of course, though the player can start the process of Awakening Noelle as the Angel in the weird route, it yet remains to be seen whether or not that awakening will be ultimately successful. In fact, it's almost guaranteed not to happen, not only because the prophecy describes the Angel's Heaven being banished and the World being saved, but because Toby himself said that there is only one ending, and if you think about it, it makes complete sense that the plot will eventually culminate in the player being ousted from Kris's body and "banished", whatever that means. Last but not least, I should probably mention Spamton NEO. The notable core of Spamton's desires is to obtain the SOUL, which he very clearly states will allow him to "see into Heaven". Now, this could mean many things, but if the Player is the Angel's Heaven, then what spamton could be after the SOUL for is specifically the fact that it is the Player's connection to that world. by possessing the SOUL, it's possible that Spamton may be able to utilize this connection to the player somehow, but there are too many possibilities to list them out. Point is, Spamton wants the SOUL not because it is any ordinary SOUL, but specifically because it is a SOUL with a connection to someone outside their world. So yeah, the Player is the Angel's Heaven.

[@Avis-fd1jo]

My theory is that after the events of undertale they created a game called deltarune. This explains why Everything is so similar. And THE ANGELS HEAVEN would be beyond, the game it would be the undertale universe. I haven't researched enough yet so I'm putting this out for others to build on aswell. Edit2: whoever the angel is could have been had thier consciousness installed? Unlikely but possible? Maybe gaster found his pieces spread across space and time and went into the game? A fallen angel? Dunno just random thoughts I've been thinkin'

[@CSCS20]

I think heaven is where gaster is "cut the strings" I think hee control by gaster

[@TheGlenn8]

I'm very sympathetic to the theory that the prophecy is a redherring or a lie/falsehood in some way. Ralsei (and Kris) seem to be manipulating the player, so perhaps the prophecy is some kind of way to trick the player? And it's also a convenient excuse to stop other lightneres from making dark fountains which could interfere Kris and Ralsei's plans.

[@commonviewer2488]

Toby Fox gave us just enough to speculate on with no concrete answers while the rest of the game is developed

[@DatLazyBoi]

Who else thinks Browniefox's little character is cute af?X)

[@ieatsand9259]

I think I might step on them like a bug

[@tarukariyamikara8908]

I think kris is the angel, as angels are messengers of God, pre determined to follow a set path in religious texts, and the spade king refers to kris as "lightbringer" which is another term for satan

[@browniefox7218]

My sister has been talking a lot about like, human vessels that are possessed by angels and how that shir would fuck you up and now that is absolutely a way im viewing Kris’ whole deal

[@tarukariyamikara8908]

@browniefox7218 kris being the "lightbringer" ie Satan as discussed before would also be thematically consistent, as they have been shown to be rebellious, attempting to thwart our "god's" control and purpose for them

[@EtchJetty]

The Angel's heaven being bad feels like a given... Maybe it's got something to do with Noelle's Mom? After all, Noelle _is_ Lalonde coded, and those girls always have Mom Trauma, and maybe my Homestuck brainrot is influencing me too much BUT THE DARK WORLDS ARE MINI INCIPISPHERES AND THE DARK FOUNTAINS ACTIVATING OBJECTS IS JUST PROTOTYPING ON A GRAND SCALE AND *she is forcibly dragged away* EDIT: AND THE DEPTHS ARE THE VEIL AND THE PRINCE IN UNDERTALE IS A PRINCE OF HOPE AKA ONE WHO DESTROYS THROUGH HOPE AKA ASRIEL IS ERIDAN CONFIRMED AKA

[@friskdreemurr2663]

Are you sure Spamton wasn't calling Kris an angel? After all, it was Kris that Spamton was speaking to

[@browniefox7218]

Hm, that's a fair point, he is talking to Kris (or the player?) at the time. Noelle is right next to Kirs, and the one who would wear the ring, but she doesn't speak at all durign the interation, so it's probably a stronger case to say he's talking to Kris. So I guess you're right, or at least it's more vague then I made it sound in the video

[@Catdramaticstatic]

personally, ive always thought tht the light world itself iz the angelz heaven. most of spamtons heaven referencez track pretty well with the idea that he iz seeking a lightner's soul to enter the light world. an idea im far less confident in iz tht "angel" might, at least in some contextz, refer to lightnerz generically? an oft overlooked detail iz how when approached by kris & noelle in snowgrave spamton addressez them az "[Angel], [Angel]" which, while certainly ambiguous, definitely feelz to me like itz addressed to kris az much az noelle, especially given that he then proceeds to do business with kris specifically. with this in mind, "banishing the angels heaven" haz. Pretty ominous implicationz. to go entirely into wild speculation i'm partial to the idea that in a sortve gnostic sense the light/material world iz a false one created by some demiurgic figure (probably the angel if it iz one specific entity) which must ultimately be banished, in whatever form that endz up taking

[@Catdramaticstatic]

alternatively going with the idea its the light worlds counterpart to the depths. i am reminded a bit of the gnostic conception of the heavens az a cosmic realm above the material world but below the world of pure ideas ruled over by archons, evil servantz of the demiurge who attempt to stop mortal souls ascending into the realm of ideas. which, well, if the angels heaven iz a sortve boundary which keeps light/material and dark/ideas divided, that could make sense of the whole "seal the fountains, banish the angels heaven, balance is restored" sequence of eventz. balance iz restored by destroying those metaphysical forcez that keepz dark and light separated off into their own little worldz. though, a bit more ominously, gnosticism also includez an end time where "the heavens will collapse into each other and the heaven of Yaldabaoth will split in two, its stars falling upon the Earth, causing it to sink into the Abyss." which uh. soundz a lot like the depths! down to associationz with water and darkness! maybe, in this case, balance between light and dark iz achieved by plunging the light world into the depths, for better or worse. would certainly explain why the deltarune website once featured "banish the angels heaven" in wingdings, gaster would have a Pretty vested interest in such a plan. and dess providez a pretty compelling motivation for our heroes to go along with it, too.

[@krisspychissp]

Okay okay here me out the angel in deltarune is actually more like satan or lucifer the fallen angel who wanted to be god. I won’t put all the evidence here but tldr angel is actually satan and this is a timeline where lucifer won kinda and I have a video on my channel if you’re interested. But see gaster is related to 666 Thë devils number and the hells roar bubbles from the depths and depths is associated with the goner maker where everyone thinks gaster is so therefore GASTER IS THE ANGEL.

[@Mr.Auternick_006]

Well, another plus is that, the Delta-Rune religious theme is very similar to Christianity as in general, confess your sins, the creator and have communion (this was gaved by Spamton), having this much similarities makes me believe that the Angel's Heaven its pretty similar to Heaven itself, a paradise where the creator is present, i like to believe that "If you seal all the dark fountains, Heaven will reach Earth and then the Light world would become a paradise", but again, in story purpose, this could be sad, like "You can destroy the world where met you're friends and made your adventure, but the Light World will become a better place!" And, other thing, i think that unlike Undertale, the Angel is actual being, not a metaphorical one, i mean, Spamton twist his wings in the NEO form to look more like an Angel, Spamton shows alot of obsession with Angel's Heaven.

[@TheImmortalMushroom]

If the angel's heaven is just a 4th wall break being our reality, too many people would start to ask for a refund

[@embryodemocracy1275]

Here's my interpretations. Darkners cannot be an angel. But maybe the lighteners are like angels to the darkners. If the lightners are angels, but a heaven can only be above you, I don't see why "the angel's heaven" can't be actual heaven. It's almost like staying that this heaven belongs to the angel from above means that there's another layer above the above. No?

[@embryodemocracy1275]

The reason I say this is because if spamton only said "heaven" everyone would already know what it means. The light world. But making it specifically the angel's feels like a layer above whatever world that angel is from

[@WEGETTINOUTACHURCHWITHTHISONE]

My reaction speed increases every time there’s a skip ad

[@rogerpr6007]

I think the angel is a powerful entity that we may have to fight in the future, i dont really like the idea of Noelle being the literal angel lol.

[@thenobody7509]

Doubt youll see this. But I think the angels heaven is a person as in the actual name of our vessel. Heaven

[@browniefox7218]

Lol I see every comment, I’m small enough. I could see that, although it does say the angel’s Heaven not the Angel, Heaven. And if it was a name it still doesn’t tell us too much about what that’d mean for the story or why it’s important to banish them, I guess

[@thenobody7509]

@@browniefox7218 well, here's my thought process. The Roaring is connected to the depths. Hells roaring and all that. But we the player simply bu playing the game are affecting the world. So, what if the goal of kris and ralsei is to find Heaven the vessel and throw the soul back into it before banishing it from the world. Therefore ending our "Game."

[@IlovedeltaruneII]

I personally believe that the banishing the angel's heaven means to save Dess. So, the angel is related to Noelle right? So, the "angel's heaven", and "heaven" may represent/mean somethimg good or happy, so, with that in mind, i personally think that banishing the angel's heaven means to save Dess. This is just some silly theory that i have, and it probably won't be true, but I like it!

[@Josh0639]

itchy

[@galacticidk]

the angel also looks like spamton neo

[@clourenskidmore9190]

If it is a character why is it represented by a entire fountain

[@browniefox7218]

If what is a character? The Angel’s Heaven? I mostly view the Angel’s Heaven as an event, that is spurred by a character, so a character is like, related to the event, but the event itself which I usually depict with a fountain is not a character

[@ndres6955]

5:56 HOLY GAY GASTER!

[@HellIsForeverWithInfinite]

Why is only ONE theory I've seen so far talking about the fact we're supposed to BANISH the angel's heaven??? I'm yet to see more than one theory suggest that wholet thing in a negative light

[@Miguel_77]

This lore is just so confuse to me, according to the profecy, Kris and friends have to banish the Angel's heaven, but at the same time Kris goes to the group of youths in the local church... That worships the Angel, what exactly is happening here?

[@Rednetthall2]

5:12 Father, Son, Holy Spirit~

[@friskdreemurr2663]

I have a feeling that the angel is a new character. I think the references to "angels" are more of foreshadowing. I kinda doubt that the angel is anyone we know yet. After all, the angel is a religious figure