We Need to END the James Somerton Saga (It’s time to move on)

James Somerton has now been the spotlight for months, and with his return to KZbin the hate against him has ramped up coming to a head this week with another controversy.
And In my opinion, it is time to move on for everyone. He will never be relevant, let's stop focusing on him.
I also want this video to be a reflection on how we treat eachother on social media and why we use certain scandal ridden creators as social media punching bags
My Patreon: / thekavernacle
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.00:00:00 - This video is about James Somerton and Not about him
00:03:20 - Why do we leave hate comments on social media
00:09:10 - He is an easy target
00:14:00 - Hbomberguy’s fans and dehumanisation
00:19:40 - Why I quit Twitter
00:23:00 - It is time to move on
Second Channel: / @thekavernacleextra
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Alex (guy who did the graphics) KZbin channel: m.kzbin.info/door/gTaAo...

[@Silvermoon424]

HBomberGuy explicitly told people to not harass Somerton in the actual video, and also called out drama content mills that capitalize on situations like this. Meanwhile people are treating this like the newest public shaming fad without actually internalizing what Harris said about how widespread and accepted plagiarism is. EDIT: What is happening in this comment thread 💀

[@StarxLolita]

I feel like this is also his own fault though. He can say these things but it means nothing when the entire videos he makes like... Very clearly are meant to basically point and laugh at the subject. Many of his videos are call-outs akin to content cop. Even if he says 'don't harass,' he's feeding into it imho.

[@laughingseal2282]

I think this dude will not minecraft himself and it's just emotional blackmail. I've dealt with people like that. That being said, he should NOT come back. Just take the L and go find a job. People will never forgive him. Ever.

[@cheekyhazelnut]

I don't think Kavernacle cares about that, its really obvious he just has a bias against hbomberguy for some reason.

[@realMacMadame]

@@StarxLolita The video had examples from at least four creators. It wasn't just a dunk on Somerton.

[@stick3908]

Was he not supposed to call out plagiarism lol ? @@StarxLolita

[@BinaBecker]

I'm not going to the trouble of giving James Somerton a video view just so I can leave a rude comment. Honestly, the best thing we can do about him now is ignore him. The algorithm doesn't care if you clicked his videos to love or hate him, after all.

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

Ding lets move on already

[@Supersonic1014]

This is *exactly* what everyone *should* be doing. If you don't like a KZbin channel and don't want it to take off, simply don't engage, any engagement will push it in the algorithm. So simple, yet no ones ever realizes how effective it is.

[@grapeshot]

Twitter X basically a new 4chan.

[@ambatuBUHSURK]

it's worse lol esp since weelon took over

[@Lifelover992011]

Aye, the difference being it's not anonymous so it's a lot easier to get VERY personal with the insults. Yay...

[@82Jaster]

@@ambatuBUHSURK His response to the Oscars last night was laughable even for him. He started out the event by complaining that the only way to win at the Oscars is to be woke. This was in response to a couple of black people winning awards at the start of the show. But by the end he said he guessed he was wrong and quote tweeting Ian Miles Cheong (of course) who declared that "wokism is dead" in response to a tweet that pointed out that nearly every winner was white.

[@Spanishdog17]

It’s KZbin comments without (watchable) videos.

[@GothMusicLatinAmerica]

@@82Jaster I remember being confused when I saw his Oscars "wokeism" tweet. I was thinking, what, does he hate the Irish or something and took ire with Cillian Murphy referencing his Irishness in his acceptance speech?

[@Chaosqueenngami]

I agree with Kavernacle that people shouldn’t be harassing James, but at the same time telling people to just get over it, isn’t his call to make. Kav has no skin in the game. He wasn’t one of those plagiarized, he’s not part of the community affected, he’s not one of the creators that James sent his fan base to harass when they correctly pointed out the plagiarism. He’s not one of the people who lost money to James failed movie projects. James has yet to give a real apology to the people he affected, and yet still asks for support and public engagement with no proof that he understands the gravity of what he has done. There’s nothing stopping James from fading into obscurity except himself.

[@nedkaram8544]

Exactly my thoughts. It would be a bit different if James genuinely apologised publicly and privately to those he plagiarised BY NAME, expressed genuine feelings of remorse for what he did (and not just because he got caught), didn't continually manipulate people with his excuses and mentions and threats of suicide, and actually made a proper pledge to reimburse those he stole from via the crowdfunding for his movies and plagiarism (rather than fucking MONETISING HIS APOLOGY VIDEO and saying he'll give the money to Hbomber to pass on). Even if he did all that, there'd obviously still be people that wouldn't accept that, but what he DID give everyone was absolutely not even a little bit okay or enough. Other than his reputation being destroyed, he hasn't actually answered for his crimes still, nor has he put anything in place to start doing that. He honestly just wanted to continue making content and was seemingly confused as to why people didn't want that.

[@generatoralignmentdevalue]

I don't think the harassment is coming from the people whose work he stole. It's coming from randos who watched the video and saw an opportunity to get away with punching down, to make themselves feel better about whatever unrelated problems they feel powerless about in their own lives. It is as much Klavernackle's call to say to stop as it was ever their call to start.

[@crazyinsane500]

In the video you didn't watch Hbomberguy showed proof positive that James lied about death threats, which turned out to be an unknown person on Twitter showing the receipts that he was plagiarizing. Similarly in this video which you never questioned, Kav never showed proof that James was being harassed, instead showing he was justifiably getting called out for *still* committing to plagiarism. This "reads Twitter then hits record" channel is only able to pretend this was harassment because he wasn't victimized, so he has no problem minimizing the harm caused to victims, nor any incentive to ensure that James stops his plagiarism.

[@blackman7437]

James lost his career, lost his reputation, tried to kill himself twice, and is probably going to have extreme difficulty finding another job again. Serious question, what more punishment does the man need to go through for his actions until you're satisfied?

[@crazyinsane500]

@@blackman7437 Contrary to the historical revisionism this channel likes to present: People were leaving James alone when he shut down his channel. Then he came back and did the same *exact* stuff people criticized him for. How many times do people have to tell him to delete his channel before he *finally* stops faking unlogging attempts and actually, literally, deletes his channel and gets off the internet so he stops harming others?

[@fiacramccluskey2569]

Everyone harassing James Somerton needs to watch the Some More News video about tech billionaires staying under the radar and re-evaluate who they're spending there time caring about

[@raven_g6667]

Facts

[@averysspookshowspectacular6205]

But billionaires are untouchable. No matter how many people call them out and try to do something they have the money to protect themselves. James Somerton was a target that could actually be taken down...maybe not to the extremes that ended up happening, but it wasn't futile like trying to take on the 1% is.

[@Chaosqueenngami]

@@averysspookshowspectacular6205 This. Critical thinking leftists point out that you can’t cancel the rich and powerful. They’ll just keep doing what they do and drown out the noise. Technically James could do the same if he embraces his villain arc and pulls a Blair or Logan. Just keep pumping out piss poor content, turn off the comments and not care what anyone thinks. James’ problem is that he still wants people to like him and see him as the victim. That’s time has come and gone.

[@JasonAtlas]

Billionaires are human. They must sleep eat and breath like everyone else. Allen & Company Sun Valley Conference. A lot of billionaires gather there. Together. In one place.

[@Kamishi845]

@@Chaosqueenngamithey're not untouchable. If people actually got together under one cause, unionized, protested and so on, to leverage the power they do have, because when many do it it's still impactful, it does matter. Entire regimes have been taken down when the peasants rebelled. It's extremely difficult, but still possible.

[@Leopoldshark]

I generally agree with the dehumanization point, but I think you are underestimating people's ability to forget. There are far too many people online and far too many scammers to keep track of them all. You also have companies like Hello Fresh still doing sponsorships even after controversies.

[@crownysuccubus1524]

This. While I agree with Kav for most of the video, the part about "not forgetting" or "moving on" being dissonant to "they deserve a chance to get on with their lives". I don't believe for a second that if James' behavior was forgotten and he got another platform that he wouldn't try to do the same thing he did before. The inherent challenge of "forgiveness" is that it's difficult to do while also remaining alert for red flags; this is especially true of James, whose past behavior (and even his behavior after being exposed) forces people to second-guess everything he ever does again.

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

The reason I don't want to see him posting on social media is that he should be seeking professional help. It's not good for him to be engaging in the drama, let alone trying to make a comeback the way he did. It's not my or anyone else's job to chase him off or tell him what to do though. If there should be any takeaway from Hbomberguy's video, it's that more attention should be focused on crediting and recompensing the people who were plagiarized.

[@223Drone]

Exactly his recent insincere apology video only made things worse for him. He needs to accept the fact that his career as a content creator is beyond saving so he get help and find another job that keeps him away from social media.

[@DaxmathecoolNobodie]

​@223Drone and exactly what job is going to hire him when they look his name up and find all of this? His life is ruined and all people wanna do is twist the knife because they have no power to do anything better with their lives.

[@Shadowcam00]

@@DaxmathecoolNobodie There are quite a few places that won't give a crap. Sure, he'll never work with a recognizable name in media, but it's not like someone with a business degree can't get a job pushing papers or handling calls at some mid-tier office.

[@neelay123]

If you go on the little mermaid trailer you'll see the most crazy, unhinged, racist trolls bashing a young womans looks all because she's black playing a fictional mermaid. The fact they're still posting after a year is crazy!

[@malcire]

I mean. So one version of Aerial isn't white. OH no, Disney is destroying our childhood. People chose to act like racist shits over the most inane things.

[@alexbennet4195]

@@gf431Alexander the Great was actually blond?

[@gayhomosexuallll]

Wait…how in the world is this relevant

[@tylersouza]

@@alexbennet4195 Yeah actually most ancient descriptions say that he was white and had blond curly hair. But interestingly there is a bit of nuance here because a lot of these descriptions are from long after he died, and it seems like people weren't really sure what he looked like anymore. Definitely it seems like he had paler skin, but there are some depictions of him (especially a famous Roman Era mosaiac) that shows him with brown/black hair that's not curly. Most interestingly is the one surviving contemporary depiction of him found at the tomb of his father Philip: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Detail_of_fresco_depicting_Alexander_the_Great.jpg The problem is that this painting is pretty degraded, but it kinda looks like his hair is brown. But that could just be the painting being very worn from age.

[@cooldrop02]

​@@gayhomosexuallll It's about how dedicated trolls and inflammatory people are to expressing their dislike for something that they do not fully understand nor actually consume.

[@afterhourscinema782]

*"If we don't obsess about this in the subreddit, what else are we supposed to do??"* Gee, I don't know...GO OUTSIDE??? 😂

[@GothMusicLatinAmerica]

These are precisely the people that the phrase "touch grass" was invented for.

[@coolshah1662]

Right?! What the ef is this reasoning? Touch grass, weirdos.

[@dreadcircumference]

seriously. like, "oh no we dont have anything to talk about on this one highly specific part of the internet! whatre we gonna dooooo!" go learn how to make a kite and go fly it. play a video game. do any 1 of the endless amount of activities that exist.

[@biteofdog]

Snark Subreddits are pretty disturbing, folks on there specifically hate watch content creators and have no problem with doxxing, making up lies/rumors, body-shaming (even little kids), ableism, making threats, reporting anything their hated creator posts, and I have no doubt that they are miserable horrible people with no lives.

[@CJ-ky2qq]

Christ, just playing a video game is better than spending months pulling apart the details of someon'e life. They don't even have to go outside, they could read a book or start knitting or whatever.

[@mischiefandmayhem8409]

H3 out there legit mocking Aaron Bushnell's death and still having as many subs as they do. There's sadly an appetite for this kind of continued twisting of the knife.

[@nabradia]

I do agree with the mob mentality criticism, but you kept out some relevant facts: James did have a massive following that would defend him no matter what. Hbomberguy literally mentioned some of the people James plagiarised or that brought it to light and were THREATENED by his fandom as well, and he never addressed it publicly. I used to watch his (James's) livestreams and he was never addressing the mob mentality of his own fandom. This doesn't give anyone the right to do the same, but he is not as "anonymous" as you're claiming :/ Additionally, it wasn't just plagiarism, now, was it. He was mysoginistic to his core and never tried making any amends about it. He was also attacking easy targets (do not forget that gay men are still men and have more privileges than women in many, MANY circumstances). He literally benefitted from being a male queer creator plagiarising a lot of female content creators..... I do not agree with people cancelling him 24/7 or harassing him, but it's very hard to empathise with him to the degree you are doing altogether :( edit: he was given at least 5 chances to make amends and never took them. people have short memory for those things...

[@cashnelson2306]

couldn’t agree more

[@floraposteschild4184]

Agreed. None of the creators profiled were tiny or inexperienced, nor did they have just one instance of plagiarism, but many. You can still see their defenders' comments on the hbomberguy video.

[@82Jaster]

Yeah, while some are going to harass him no matter what. I think James could've put out a lot of the fire had he just come out and addressed each accusations, explained why he did what he did, and issued genuine apologies. But he didn't do that. Instead he's repeatedly had some excuse to attempt to justify what he did, and in other cases he just doesn't address the accusation at all. A genuine apology and a real attempt to make amends can go a long with many. But he hasn't even tried that.

[@nabradia]

@@82Jaster I know right? I myself have tried to argue against his mysoginy in more than one of his livestreams to no avail :/ James simply ignored who went against his mob. He would thrive in his mob's mentality...

[@beththebubbly69]

thank you for putting the feeling into words. this is exactly it. he wasn't just some anonymous guy. he took donations from thousands of queer people hoping to see more stories like theirs for movies he was never going to and never did make. it isnt "just" plagarism and many many many people already knew who he was. I had multiple queer friends mention when the Hbomberguy video came out that they had been subscribed to James' patreon because they had no idea!

[@poposterous236]

I can't believe Kavernacle is anti-drama. I'm going to hold it against him for the rest of my entire weekend. Wait till Becky and the gals get wind of this.

[@Glassandcandy]

“Why do you have empathy for X person” Uh because it’s a basic core part of being a human to empathize with others, even if they’re a bad person and did terrible things? I don’t get the idea that empathy dries up in response to unethical or shitty behavior. You can empathize with someone even if you detest them- empathizing doesn’t mean condoning or giving a pass. I think Somerton is a miserable piece of garbage,but he’s still a human being and he still doesn’t deserve death or disproportionate and/or cruel punishment to what he did. Honestly, if someone I knew held the opinion that someone like somerton no longer should be entitled to the most basic elements of human dignity and treatment that would be a major red flag. That’s sociopathic thinking

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

Wrong he's the lefts hitler because we on the left are very stupid obviously lol

[@haustyl12]

To me, it comes down to the golden rule. “Treat others the way you want to be treated”. James made it a habit to attack anyone that questioned his misdeeds and committed gay erasure. Not once has he actually owned up to his mistakes or proven he’s capable of atonement or redemption. I don’t think he should be physically harmed or be forced to never work again. But at the same time he has never shown empathy or sympathy to his victims. So why should he receive the same treatment?

[@camelopardalis84]

@@haustyl12 Because there's no need to stoop down to someone's level. You criticise Somerton for never having shown empathy or sympathy. Key word "criticise". You say it's a bad thing. But in the same comment, you say it's correct to not show empathy or sympathy.

[@KD-_-]

"Be empathetic and kind to landlords"

[@haustyl12]

@@camelopardalis84 I’ll never be able to stoop to his level, I never committed plagerism or sent followers after people

[@lloroshastar6347]

Yes, this is why Kavernacle is increasingly becoming one of my favourite political KZbinrs. He's honest and not tied up in ridiculous drama content all the time.

[@EugenTemba]

True.

[@Planag7]

Yes but his fans unfortunately don't believe in the concept of copyright thinking that it's an extreme capitalist events which I'll be honest with you if you do freeform publicly available video essays if you got to steal from that then you're a pathetic person

[@2eachaccording]

I was happy to see this. The discord post! “It shall never be forgotten or forgiven” … then following up with restorative justice talking points is wild

[@the1truejoe178]

Why I watch Hasan and kavernacle the most out of any political creator.

[@nikolademitri731]

@@2eachaccordingbut can’t we get revenge before we get to all the restoration stuff? I mean, how do we get communism without a little dollop of revenge? It can be the cherry on top maybe? Please?

[@Mitsunee_]

internet culture as a whole is just utterly messed up. I basically grew up online, worked for more than half of my life to learn skills to make my living doing stuff with internet-related tech and I utterly despise how this entire thing evolved. A friend of mine had to expose her own partner as a groomer and since then has been getting constant harrassment from multiple different groups, one calling her a "racist channer" (whatever that means) and another who want her to post "proof" (read: leak the entire unedited DM histories of multiple minors and her partner, which would literally be a crime). People never know when to stop, constantly go way beyond too far and ruin lives to a degree that would easily be punishable by law if internet anonymity was as dead as advertisement companies wish it was.

[@Canoby]

Re Sommerton Yeah dude needs help, not any more public attention Props on quitting the Twitter habit; I felt a similar relief when I quit Reddit.

[@ObakuZenCenter]

Reddit is a cesspool much of the time. Especially with the new moderators appointed by Reddit themselves.

[@dreadcircumference]

it really is jarring how much better of a person you become when you divorce yourself from internet groups

[@exosproudmamabear558]

I quited both and I feel much more better

[@daimen06]

Im in several fandoms, and the mob mentally will never not be disgusting. Like they believe have ownership of a creator or entertainer. So, any amount of hate and harrassment is justified because you're a fan. It's super gross.

[@2eachaccording]

It absolutely is a sense of ownership! Fandoms (and anti-fandoms) can really reveal humans at their worst group behaviour

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Which is why I don't follow the people behind the media I consume. I play a lot of video games and I don't pay attention to the developers or whatnot. This way, when I sit down with games, I only have my time and experience with them. They're not mixed in with emotional attachment. It also makes it easier to cut them out of my life if it later comes out the people involved in their creation are trash bags and I'm not going to buy their stuff anymore. I don't get nostalgic and feel compelled to get online and spill my guts about how "betrayed" by someone I feel. I can even use Kav as an example here; I never followed his private social media because I don't feel the need to know about it see his private life and travels. Will Kav do something that makes me unsubscribe and walk away and never look back? Probably not. But it's easier to hedge my bets upfront rather than feel hurt and disappointed in the long run.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

"Fandom" is one of those words used exclusively by liber, consumerist hogs. It is called a "fan base," not a "fandom."

[@EckhartsLadder]

I agree completely with this video. A few thoughts: 1. People really don't understand what it's like to be on the wrong side of online harassment at the scale of even an ordinary content creator, much less someone totally in the crosshairs. 2. The way people reacted after the Hbomb video was really disgusting - they were hating for the visceral joy of taking someone down. That's not what Hbomberguy did, and you have to look at reasons for the callout - HB didn't hate James I'm guessing, he made the video to call the individual out and try to stop bad behaviour; most of the people obsessing over the situation afterwards were doing so purely because they were enjoying ripping another person down. 3. I also was not a fan of how Hbomb essentially re-litigated dead drama with the former IGN editor. Although he may have had the best intentions, the drama was over, and he should've be cognizant of the effect his video would have on someone obviously trying to live their life no longer online.

[@dimathegoose]

always nice to see larger youtubers who don’t necessarily have political channels commenting on leftist videos, makes me feel a little bit better about this site

[@BlueKitsune72]

It's good to see reasonable takes on politics. I get nervous when star wars fans weigh in on politics, but it's really cool to see you stop to think, and be level headed and compassionate

[@ambatuBUHSURK]

he didn't "re litigate" anything. How else is he supposed to talk about internet history? People are just supposed to pretend nothing happened and act ignorant of something that happened in the past?

[@dissident1337]

Hbomberguy was definitely doing it for the visceral joy, that's been his modus operandi for the past decade. He's always been like this.

[@avalokiteshvara113]

eckheart is a kavernacle viewer, based

[@kdjets]

It's wild that h. Bombers audience on Reddit will still talk about this stuff for a year until the next video comes out. I completely agree. That's a really bad way to have a parasocial relationship

[@kdjets]

There are so many other creators to learn from and hear perspectives from, especially in the queer space. I think it's a tragedy for people to obsess on one creator so much when there's just so much to learn and so many people to connect with in terms of their stories and what life experiences they've had

[@Rosa-ch2rs]

james weaponizing his mental health is so disgusting. its awful he is going though such a bad period, but HE DID THAT TO HIMSELF. its not like something traumatic suddenly just happened to him. he continuously did some bad stuff and now that thats public knowledge, hes suddenly a victim? absolutely not. i dont care if he wants to die, cus the reason behind it is not desperation, its selfishness. he doesnt want to be seen as the bad guy, but he is the bad guy. he did the bad things. now he has to deal with that and he doesnt want to so hed rather victimize himself in one of the most manipulative kinda ways.

[@HyperFocus410]

The reason why people are not forgiving the guy is that he is still lying and being manipulative. He is an extremely bad actor. One of the worst I’ve seen on KZbin. His recent stunt was because he was asked by Jessie Gender to produce the police report he claims to have made. He had no way of producing that police report as it was yet another lie. His back was against the wall: produce the police report or get exposed as still lying. So, he took down the second apology video and pulled this latest stunt so that the pressure to produce the police report goes away. He will come back soon and make no mention again of that police report or Jessie Gender.

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

I think the point is why expel so much energy on this as an observer? You don’t have to “forgive” him, just stop engaging with his channel and move on with your life. Harassing someone online who has no real bearing on your life isn’t useful or productive, it just begins to look obsessive and abusive. Him being allegedly abusive or exploitative doesn’t justify acting that way in return. That’s what seems to be lost by some in this situation.

[@HyperFocus410]

​@@pisceanbeauty2503 I have not personally made a single response to the guy. I'm just an observer. But this is how the internet is. James Somerton himself engaged in this internet culture by repeatedly sending his followers to harass people who rightfully accused him of plagiarism. Remember the woman forced to private her Twitter because she legitimately called him out for plagiarizing a book? She was so traumatized by the harassment directed her way by Somerton that she asked to remain anonymous in HBomberguy’s video. Somerton himself has fully engaged in and promoted what you describe. He can't complain about it now. What goes around comes around.

[@theswagman1263]

It's not about "forgiveness", it's about people wasting their time harassing someone who's objectively done far less harm than others who don't face the same sort of harassment. If you're going to spend your life arguing online, at least pick better targets?

[@HyperFocus410]

@@theswagman1263 They see him as harmful and manipulative and fear he will hurt or exploit other people.

[@theswagman1263]

@@HyperFocus410 sure, but there are people far more manipulative and exploitative who have also done far worse, who these people aren't constantly writing hate comments towards. You've got to wonder why him and not them, seems odd

[@UNSTABLE111]

I love Hbomberguys vids, hell sometimes I fall asleep to his videos...but holyshit now I see million other videos that essentially beating the dead horse..getting really out of hand..People just need to say their piece and move on and maybe the other take away is to be wary about plagarism in general..not dogpiling one person

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

H bomber lib used to make great vids tackling seriously messed up subjects. Climate change, corporations, vaccines... But now it's just vids on some dood he doesn't like very much or acting like a video game is deeper than it really is... Coulda done a big epic interesting anti genocide/war video which woulda been very game changing and fitting for the times right now but nah, king of left toob is too afraid of scaring off his libbed out doners who boot lick the IDF. Honestly I used to like h bummer guy but now I think he's a prick lolz.

[@ohnooffwego]

I'm all about brigading terrible government officials, especially cops, but that's about it. I'm a big fan of hbomberguy and really liked his plagiarism video. But I was never a James Somerton viewer, so I can't imagine tracking him down to spew hate at him. Why bother? He isn't losing me as a viewer. He never took any money from me. I can understand his fans being pissed, but all of these other people coming out of the woodwork need to go to therapy.

[@RexytheRexy]

I don't understand why fame is considered so desirable. Yes, I can grasp it intellectually and financially, but overall, it just doesn't compute. I come from a small town, and learned how wrong being even remotely visible can go by the time I was 16 (and that was in an environment of a few thousand). I genuinely don't know how you, or anyone else, manages the psychological stress. None of us are immune to the distance a screen puts between us and other human beings, and the decreased empathy that creates. We all need to be mindful and very careful about that.

[@GetOfflineGetGood]

I think a lot of people process their fear of dying through fame seeking, like if people will remember you and you'll have vindication when youre gone, then mortality isn't as scary.

[@RexytheRexy]

@@GetOfflineGetGood That makes a lot of sense, and I can definitely see that psychological need overriding concerns about receiving online abuse.

[@the_exegete]

Beats working for a living.

[@gemmadirenna7712]

Being empathetic isn’t a flaw, Kav ❤

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

Well said. If we were all gigantic a holes the human race would be extinct already lol.

[@page8301]

Where is his empathy of Somerton's victims? Has he done anything to actually alleviate the damage Somerton has done? All Kav does is the same Harris did, telling people to not harass others. Whoopididoo what great empathy for a complete scumbag which somehow "earned" the empathy for two videos while his victims get what? Nothing?

[@asphaltpilgrim]

The sad truth is: in the real world it can be. But I still love your comment. 😊🙏

[@johnradclyffehall]

It’s quite the opposite.

[@mustangg_art]

James did something awful and deserving of criticism, but the way people are talking about him would make you think he murdered somemone. You don't have to like him, but he's still a human being deserving of empathy. For some reason people believe in rehabilitation until it's an influencer surrounded by controversy.

[@LynIsALilADHD]

Thank you for saying something....

[@rustkitty]

Worth considering that Sommerton had a big fanbase and the Hbomb video must have been a shock for them. I've never heard of him before and only causally followed the story, but I was a long time fan of iilluminaughtii until The Click and other ex-colleagues came forward about her abusive behavior earlier last year. Back then I devoured every video about this because it was cathartic and personally relevant, even though otherwise I avoid drama and "commentary" channels like the plague. I guess that's when a more combative person would start piling on. So my point is that it's not just the drama hounds looking for the next baddie. A lot of folks were personally hurt even if the only thing violated was their trust.

[@lindenshepherd6085]

Maybe it’s because I was a dedicated fan of James, but from what I’ve seen of the harassment, it’s nothing that wouldn’t have died down if he hadn’t kept releasing apologies. He keeps trying to streamline his online recovery, making one failed apology and trying a rebrand to make another in the span of 6 months. He isn’t letting people move on and forget, so he always catches the tail end of the anger when he releases new content. Sure, people can be vindictive and cruel, especially when they feel personally hurt or projecting a similar hurt onto their target, but I don’t think the vitriol would have continued if he went silent. Despite what some of y’all are saying, he hasn’t committed a punishable legal offense and he’s worked in unrelated fields before, so I don’t think he’s condemned to a workless life or anything like that. He might need a humbling few years of working a job he doesn’t like, honestly. Or at least a job that isn’t in a creative field where the temptation to lighten his workload isn’t as strong.

[@realMacMadame]

There are plenty of other KZbinrs who got called out for bad stuff --- some worse than James -- that managed to come back. Why? I think it's because they issued their (usually lame) apology video and then they *went away*. Not forever. But until the whole controversy died down. And, when they came back, it was small at first so that they could build up an audience again. Sure, some people still hate them but enough are willing to forgive and enough didn't know about the controversy at the time and only find out after they are hooked on the content because not everyone is massively online. I think Somerton isn't experiencing this because (a) he won't go away and let things lie down and (b) every "apology" video has a section on how he wants to keep making videos and how he plans to do that. (Even his "I've unalived myself" tweet continued with "I have some videos coming out in the next few days. WTF?) If he *really* went away and stayed gone for a while, came back without much fanfare, maybe not monetizing his videos at first, I bet he could come back eventually and have a decent KZbin career. I know Kavernacle thinks he can't but most people are pretty casual viewers of KZbin and don't care about the drama if the content is good. P.S. No, I haven't been running around the internet posting hate comments on his socials. I don't get that. It takes too much energy that I'd rather spend elsewhere.

[@ahmad92760]

Atleast the people dogpiling on James on Hbomber's sub are not directly harassing him, they are not going out of their way to shit on him on his social media accounts.

[@animovie1]

People should read the book "so you've been publicly shamed" by Jon Ronson. It completely changed my opinion on cancel culture and online outrage. We seem to take great joy in destroying people for their indiscretions, it's a bit sick in my opinion.

[@therock238360]

As Harris said in his video. “Anyone who harasses James on my behalf is worse than him and will not see the light of heaven”. He’s been exposed for his plagiarism, his career is basically over, and I think he’s suffered the consequences for it. I’m worried about things going too far (which they already have imo) and it’s time to move on

[@Moistcraictical]

Thank you, he did something wrong but people have been going way too far. He's still a human and that note that he left is incredibly worrying.

[@Planag7]

It's clear you didn't actually watch the original video where he said people not to hassle him not to mention other producers and she said the same thing it's been dealt with but you know feel self-righteous in the fact that you can waggle your finger at people who got genuinely ripped off by the fool

[@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342]

@@Planag7 Can you write that again but in a way that's understandable? Thanks lol.

[@noconsent]

@@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 He said no one would even be talking about Sommerton if he didn't plagiarize for a living, why does the perpetrator of plagiarism get a free pass, but HBomberguy get criticized, when HBomber clearly outlines in his videos not to harass anyone, and is just a factual recounting of events?

[@page8301]

"he did something wrong" he did a lot more than "something wrong"...

[@superfeel1275]

@@noconsentIt's a matter of personal value, do you think what he did (exploiting queer people, plagiarizing the less successful, misogyny here and there) warrants months long harassment of everything he's involved with. If you think he deserves it, then yeah hbomber did nothing wrong we should dogpile him for months. If you think it's excessive then you start thinking that hbomber should've been a bit more measured in his expose (saying stuff like "I don't think he deserves his life ruined from this, not making it a 1-hour segment and not framing him as the "final boss of plagiarism") Either way, you can't deny that people do be obsessing over who they hate instead of doing something for themselves. Which isn't healthy if you're totally disconnected from the wrongdoings, like rant and move on geez Edit: To be fair there was no way to convince people to be reasonable. It's a lose-lose. So I don't think anyone is mad at hbomber for that.

[@MeeraReads]

To your point about other creators who have been in worse scandals, Council of Geeks made a good point about this. Logan Paul acting like a huge jerk is in line with his persona-his scandals may be worse, but his core audience/fanbase expects him to be a huge jerk. Being obnoxious is on brand. James Somerton lied to and stole from his core audience/fanbase and turned out to be completely different from his persona. And it was throughout his entire career, not just a couple videos. I think the people who are most upset (and I think justifiably so) are his former fans-the people whose money he took, the people who believed him when he was just making stuff up. A lot of LGBT history has been lost, and even older folks believed him because there just isn’t as much out there as there should be. Is that a reason to be cruel? No. But I think those people might actually spit or call him names if they saw him on the street, because it was an extreme betrayal of trust (Council of Geeks didn’t say this last part, that’s on me about the spitting and name calling)

[@Qsalis]

He's a bad person, but he's still a human being. People forget that.

[@8523wsxc]

People bringing out the torches and pitchforks for the guy who copied his homework… If you want to be awful, Alan Dershowitz still has yt account.

[@realMacMadame]

And Jeffrey Star, James Charles, Shane Dawson ... and a lot of other people I don't know about but I'm sure exist.

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

Somerton did a lot more than that...

[@realMacMadame]

@@BeautifulEarthJa He groomed kids?? I don't think so.

[@the_exegete]

@@BeautifulEarthJa I'm sorry did you just claim that the YT plagiarist did more, worse things than... Alan Fcking Dershowitz???

[@kingkingo1841]

Maybe people would've moved on if james didn't make 2 shit apologies

[@cheekyhazelnut]

Thats the thing, people did move on. But then James made a bunch of bad apologies and refueled the fire instead of just leaving.

[@223Drone]

@@cheekyhazelnut Exactly he can't accept the fact that his career as a content creator is over and instead of moving on and seeking help his narcissism got the better of him.

[@cheekyhazelnut]

@@223Drone The dude literally faked a suicide note and people still think its bad to call this guy out.

[@223Drone]

@@cheekyhazelnut No one said it's bad to call him out for his insincere actions but as the video pointed out there is no need to harass him.

[@jayray1714]

So.. they didn't move on. If people moved on, they would've said 'who cares' and go about their day.

[@RNNNPTH]

I think the commentary on the James Somerton pile on is on point, though I think it's worth noting that a group of people who no doubt don't care at all about James Somerton have been attacking Hbomberguy and his producer Kat. I've seen people calling them "murderers" (mind you this is when there is no evidence James actually took his own life... the most recent updates suggest he did not and is currently safe). Granted I doubt many in Kavernacle's audience are part of that group (aside from some hate watchers). I think this entire debacle has been difficult on them as well and most of what has occurred has been entirely unintentional on their part. While they could have been perhaps a bit more proactive in calling out some of the harassment towards Somerton, I think they were in a very stressful position and dealing with a lot of uncalled for harassment themselves. I can only imagine it is very difficult to navigate a situation like this, especially when you find yourself in a defensive position.

[@page8301]

"While they could have been perhaps a bit more proactive in calling out some of the harassment towards Somerton" Harris made an entire segment about people who harass the people he exposed and told them anyone who goes after them is worse than the likes of Somerton. What else is he supposed to do? There is nothing he can do. It will happen regardless. Now what? Should terrible people like Somerton never be exposed out of fear that they might receive harassment? Yeah right.

[@mansoortanweer]

I agree with everything you said. However, I want to add some stuff to your points. I think part of the blame should go to the algorithm. Right now, it has become profitable to make content on KZbin about James. This has incentivized content creators on the platform put out their own hot takes. All of these creators have audiences. Those audiences have childish people among them looking for, as you put it, punching bags. The conversation keeps carrying on, which then creates the illusion to Somerton that the very fabric of reality around him is crumbling like he is in a skyscraper being demolished. Things snowball form there, making him believe there is no safe harbour for him. Then we get a Somerton's suicide scare. I think Somerton deserved to be called out. But I think the discourse about him should have ended after maybe three days tops. But the algorithm made it keep going, sinking all discourse, not just about Somerton, as a result to a new low. We often talk about how the algorithm often favours rage-bait and outrage politics. Usually, we talk about how it is a useful for ultra-right chuds to conclusion-shop their flawed takes, but we don't talk about how it has the potential to end a person's life, literally or metaphorically. Frankly I'm surprised, to my knowledge, the algorithm hasn't put more people on a dark road like Somerton has been put onto.

[@page8301]

Plenty of people did not go down a dark road despite the algorithm. To blame it all on YT is frankly ridiculous. There is a discussion to be had about it, but this certainly is not it.

[@mansoortanweer]

@@page8301 I did no blame it all on YT, which evidence by when I told Kavernacle "I agree with everything you said."

[@cascabels]

I can't stand Somerton, I don't really care what happens to him, I don't feel particularly bad for him, and I still don't Get the impulse to go leave comments about it. Aside from the maliciousness being wrong or whatever, I don't see the point. I hated the way he talked about women even before the HBomb video dropped, but I never left even constructive comments about it because obviously someone with hundreds of thousands of views is already getting those comments. I think a lot of people who join dogpiles have this weird self-centered idea that "my comment is going to be the one that really gets to this guy, for better or probably worse". No matter how negatively I feel about someone in the spotlight, I think it's just a waste of time to say anything other than a vague, untagged "womp womp"

[@Westlander857]

Yeah, I’m with Kav 100% on this one. This is insanity, and many of my favorite content creators have let me down with the way they handled this situation. Is what James Somerton did bad? Yeah. Should he face consequences for it? Yeah. But people are treating him as though he’s some sort of serial killer or war criminal. Their treatment of him is way, way, way out of proportion with what he did. Leave him alone, let him learn his lesson, and move on with your life just like he will move on with his. There’s absolutely no reason for this degree of mob justice against him whatsoever. Also: I love hbomb, and he was right to talk about this, but did it really need an hour-long segment broadcasted to tens of millions of people? I think the James Somerton situation could have easily been summarized in 20 minutes tops, and hbomb could have used that same time and energy to make a long video essay on a much more serious and urgent topic. Okay, I’m done now.

[@danculbert6349]

Yeah he done goofed, but the chap wasn't exactly Joseph Fritzl. I think Hbomber is getting a lot views making videos calling out creators for lies and it's starting to really gain power.

[@Dontstopbelievingman]

100%

[@page8301]

"But people are treating him as though he’s some sort of serial killer or war criminal" What? Who does this? Can you name even a handful of content creators or their comment section doing so in large quantities?

[@danculbert6349]

@@page8301 Maybe not exactly a serial killer but people are really morally lashing him for something that in the grand scheme of things is like… eh

[@page8301]

@@danculbert6349 A serial plagiarist who was risking the lives of those who called him out on it, including some who were his own fans who noticed he had plagiarized from them, by sending his followers after them under false pretence. Those fans literally bullied them off social media platforms because they believed Somerton that he was under dire threat by the people calling him out for plagiarism well before Hbomb he came along. This could have gotten even worse and only luck is responsible for it not getting to an even worse state. I fail to understand how people can be so blase over the deeds of Somerton. Among KZbin video essayists, he ranks among the worst and there can be an argument be made that he is the worst among people DJMüll having been around for a while. Obviously there are worse people out there, but let us not pretend that a guy who ruined and leeched off the livelihoods of his fellow LGBTQ+ people is just a bit of a naughty boy who needs a slap on the wrist.

[@conor9966]

In regards to him getting a job: ive had coworkers who were ex-gang members and people with so many DUIs that they cant hold a liscence. Suggesting he cant ever work again because he was the internet bad guy for a few months is rediculous

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

You are so detached from reality. You are genuinely arguing that you think James Somerton could get a job as a cashier without people like you recognizing and harassing them. Unlike ex convicts and people with DUIs, James' name and face is know to millions of people who would love nothing more than to "call him out" in real life. Use your brain for one second.

[@conor9966]

@Abcdefg-tf7cu No I am not arguing that at all, not all jobs are customer facing. The arguement was that Somerton was unhirable in general, not in one specific field. Similar to Jason Nash who is also being told "get a real job", Somerton would almost certainly be recognized amd then harassed in any public accessible role... but it it ridiculously short sighted to think that is all jobs.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

@@conor9966 What is ridiculously short sighted is you deliberate dishonesty by pretending that James would only be at risk of being recognized in a fromt facing position. He would be recognized and harassed by his own coworkers if he had a back facing position. And his co workers would, in turn, be harassed online for working with him if the company he worked for was ever found. People like you will follow James around for the rest of his life. That's why he can't get a normal job without risking being harassed. Hbonberguy's sychophantic fans have literally said that they will never forgive or forget him. Kav read a popular reddit post saying those exact words. You people have outright promissed to follow him to any job he does try to get.

[@conor9966]

@Abcdefg-tf7cu lol tell me you're terminally online without telling me you're terminally online. People in construction or factory related industries Ive worked do not give a shit about someomes "youtube crimes". He is neither less hirable or less capable than many people Ive worked with or around. Also, people like me? The guy who's never posted on any of Somerton's platforms amd made no personal attacks against him. The guy who is actively saying he could just go live a life away from youtube and de-activate his socials and live a "normal person" lifestyle? I'm the one committing to going to harrass him wherever he goes? What the hell are you talking about.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

@@conor9966 I highly doubt you've worked in any sort of manual labor if you're a bootlicker for Hbomberguy. Nice try, tho. You just keep liying and avoiding the point. Typical theater kiddie Harris fanboy.

[@KGBSpyGeorgeCostanza]

Yeah I may not like james but some people as use that as a scapegoat to say "gay bad" and other stuff like that

[@RedJadeArt]

No, most of his critics are actually from the LGBT community. Those are the people whose work he was mostly ripping off. The claim that “people are just using this to say gay bad” is mainly a thing Somerton says is happening to defend himself

[@urahi830]

I've literally only seen left leaning people be critical of him and other left leaning people repeat this argument. I don't even give a shit but let's not pretend there some right wing troll farm sent to harass this man, they don't give a fuck about him or plagiarism

[@themajesticspider-man6116]

​@@RedJadeArt Well, that, and there are people on the right trying to blame the left specifically for him allegedly self-deleting. It's pretty wild.

[@Chelaxim]

​@@RedJadeArtOr the straight women. Are the straight women in the room with us now James?

[@ohnooffwego]

True and also ironic given that the people he victimized were LGBTQ.

[@chillleft]

In my opinion I think they'll wait for any opportunity to drag a celebrity down to their level but they have no real gauge of empathy to know when too much is too much and when to stop

[@seethransom]

Twitter brings oit the worst in me. I quit awhile ago. I will use it for customer service. Thanks gor letting me know James is alive. I was worried. No one should die over this. I hope he is getting help. Ive seen a bunch of homophobic people who feel its okay to dehumanize him and blame it on his behavior. Those people already hate him. So f them. Im angry at him for lying about a personal hero/crush. Joey Stefano. I'm just gonna let him go off with his tail tucked. And not think about him. I just cared for his safety. Matt Baume is a content creator who is much more gracious and not aloof. He covers gay history, on and off the stage. Give him a follow.

[@grandsome1]

That's because being a bully feels good. The internet will take any opportunity to bully a socially acceptable target. Without introspection people will do it mindlessly until it goes too far.

[@page8301]

"That's because being a bully feels good" to some people, not everybody, or even a majority.

[@GetOfflineGetGood]

Leaving twitter is honestly so transformational, i was absolutely sick to my stomach and like went through withdrawals for awhile, but now i feel so much better. If i could quit KZbin I'd be on fire

[@actualgoblin]

I do miss the memes sometimes, but the constant ragebait and arbitrary discourse is NOT worth it

[@GetOfflineGetGood]

​@@actualgoblin for sure, not to mention the shame i used to feel when i was just incapable of STFU and i ended up hurting someone's feelings or making an ass out of myself

[@YarnGeek]

Feels like we need more empathy in this world. Recently someone posted a poem expressing the hopelessness of everyday life as a genocide is happening and I saw so many big leftists accounts shitting on it. Calling it cringe and a bad poem and it just feels like people are being mean because it makes them feel better about themselves. I don’t think it was the best poem ever but I understood the message they were trying to convey. Suddenly all these accounts are experts on poetry. I was glad to see there was some pushback but I don’t think those leftists accounts would do any self reflection.

[@nedkaram8544]

Tbh, I feel more empathy towards the women and minorities he ripped off and hurt. The people who he purposefully stole from, knowing they were small creators that would be harder to spot his theft. The people who were harassed by HIS devoted followers. The people that very well might have had their own suicide ideations because of what he did. The people who never got a direct apology from him. The people who trusted him and his vision and gave him money that he then stole. The family and friends he hurt with suicide threats. Have empathy, yes, but it's not unconditional and the people he hurt are FAR more deserving of respect and grace than James Somerton is.

[@NankitaBR]

He absolutely DID have a group of fans that would defend him, and he did "use" that group of people very frequently to go after people saying bad things about him before this entire thing happened. Believe me, I was someone who watched his videos religiously for a long time. The thing is that the things that Hbomb proved against him were things that this specific group of people cared very much about, and it caused most of *them* to turn against him. It would be as if tomorrow someone proved that you were never actually a communist but you were a big capitalist that is just saying all of the stuff here as a grift. People went to his channel *because* of his arguments about a subject, and then people found out that the thing they watched his videos for was the thing he stole from other people and lied about it.

[@whimloomgames]

People hold themselves up such righteous standards, yet they believe that part of the moral contract is to go against those standards for the people that haven't lived up to them. People judge others because they are "bad". And then their first response is to do something bad because that's what a "good"person would do? I don't get it. Just because somebody has done a horrible thing, you have every right to be mean to them, you're not being censored, but the real question is why would you want to? How can you believe that you're also good after that because "they're worse"? I'm so tired. I'm so tired of people being mean and saying it's justice or fair. If you do wrong I won't support what you do, but I can forgive you so nobody has to suffer. Good or bad, nobody should hurt or suffer.

[@nepoleon92]

I agree we don’t need to hunt him to the ends of the earth for all time I do feel that if he tried to come back we should at least be like “naughty naughty”. The internet legitimately makes people think they’re not talking to other humans and they treat them like absolute garbage and honestly I don’t know how to help.

[@ilydowa]

i watched and enjoyed hbomber guys video and then just didn't engage with sommerton idk why ppl care

[@kdjets]

It's nuanced, because I do think it's valuable to have exposed his plagiarism, I think it's even fair for a lot of people on the LGBTQ community, especially to be able to air out their grievances and cope with how disappointed they are in him. I went to his channel just to post that I binged his content a while ago and that I was disappointed and hurt by what he had done. Now, I think that's pretty balanced compared to what other people did. I didn't go after him and insult him but I understand, there's a lot of people that did and quite relentlessly.

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

Idk way I see it these aren't actually people. They present a public persona who is for all intents and purposes not their true selves. Interactions online, between content creators and consumers, are never as complex as they are in the real world. They're just not. If we are to discourage people from being parasocial, removing the weight of any possible positive interaction, then should we not do the same with negative? What, ultimately, does it matter that people are being nasty to James Somerton? He brought about his own decline. People being mean in a comments section should mean absolutely nothing. He doesn't know any of us. The Internet isn't real life. It's not important. If people's conduct is weird, you can sit there and judge but ultimately it's no more or less productive to wag your finger at people talking in a mutable comments section.

[@luffyduffy7817]

Anyone who goes out of their way to harass anyone has no life. that being said, I feel like I'm an outlier here when I say we can't just let him get away with baiting suicide more than once, to the point where he KNEW people were worried about him and decided to say nothing online while there were people blaming hbomberguy for his "death". James Somerton was called out for something wrong he did and he's a narcissistic abuser who is in a downward spiral because he has lost control of the narrative. Criticism is not harassment. James has an abusive personality and him continuing to threaten self harm at any and all criticism is a manipulative tactic. I'm tired of seeing sympathy towards him as he takes advantage of a very real issue because he was called out for his horrible behavior. That's what he wants so he can sneak back onto the platform in a few months. Like this needs to be called out and not avoided because he put fear into so many people about talking about him, again, which is what he wants.

[@obstipuit]

honest to god this idea of using someone who did really bad things as a human punching bag reminds me of all the vigilante predator catchers on youtube who are pretty transparently just sadists on power trips and trying to channel their urges into at least victimizing someone who deserves it on some level

[@chadgunner4403]

Some people really need get off the internet and stop clutching onto their clout

[@noconsent]

is this irony?

[@dlwseattle]

the success of our poisoned broken system is contingent on the hatred and division. capitalism excels when there is a victor and a loser. people act this way because they are being lied to and manipulated by our system. they are rightfully angry and afraid - unfortunately they are elevating and giving the wrong people a pass and not blaming all involved parties.

[@page8301]

"elevating and giving the wrong people a pass" like whom?

[@bringjoy73]

Tbh I didn’t even know this whole situation until a few days ago because I kept seeing James’ name everywhere so I decided to watch a video someone made, I still don’t completely understand the huge public outrage and mob honestly, I thought the guy had serious allegations of being a pedo or abuser based on how people where covering this situation 😭didn’t H3 just have a podcast where he was making fun a man’s death and defending or being a ‘centrist’ about a whole genoicde?? the internet is definitely an interesting place to say the least cuz the outrage and cognitive dissonance is insane

[@hervvo]

People don't just behave this way online. If anyone was ever mercilessly bullied as a child, had no friends and no one on their corner to defend them, and didn't know how to be emotionally strong about it, those people know what I'm talking about. There is a contingent of humanity who will sniff out sensitive, fragile, and emotionally soft people to single them out for being different and relish in the absolute power they have to make that person cry. There doesn't need to be a reason, either. I know this obviously from experience, but also from observation. There are people who take their shit out on others, yes, and the anonymity of the internet makes that really easy. But sometimes it crosses a line into sadistic emotional torture... a mob making each other hungrier and hungrier to inflict pain and watch the person suffer, to laugh at their pain and mock them. Unlike dunking on someone to make yourself feel better, or hiding behind internet anonymity to tell someone what you really think... I truly can't understand it. It's almost like someone being vulnerable causes people to lose their empathy (if they ever had any in the first place).

[@crazyinsane500]

He's not being bullied because of who he is, he's being called out for being a plagiarist, and continuing to make things worse by blaming others and continuing to plagiarize. The attempt to play it off like bullying is bad faith historical revisionism. Your lie, the fact that you'd lie in the first place indicating *why* you feel sympathy for a liar like James, only works for anyone who doesn't go to his own channel to see what the criticism is like.

[@hervvo]

@@crazyinsane500 I know I probably shouldn't respond to this, but here we go I guess. I absolutely never have and never would equate James Somerton being called out for being a plagiarist with bullying. I'm one of the people who was subscribed to James Somerton and was really shocked and disappointed, and then (after he was called out) even further disgusted with his behavior. I agree with kavernacle that what JS did (and continues to do) is wrong, despicable, pathetic, manipulative... all the adjectives. Maybe you assumed I was defending him in "bad faith historical revisionism" because I didn't state the painfully obvious first - so now you know. Your assumption that I feel sympathy for James Somerton is... wild. I was actually responding to a specific thing that kavernacle was saying - and again, maybe it's my bad for not being super specific so I’ll clarify it for you. I'm paraphrasing, but what I got from what kavernacle was saying was that 1) people only act this way online and they wouldn't say the same thing face to face 2) maybe it's because people want to feel better about themselves / their own lives and the anonymity of the internet makes that way easier, and 3) the people -IN GENERAL- who go online to be horrible and harass online creators are hard to understand

[@crazyinsane500]

@@hervvo You're still acting like he's being harassed, but he's not. If he tried this in real life, it would be so much worse, and people *would* confront him about it. You ever know someone who just shits the bed at a party and refuses to leave? That's what James did, and people are a lot more harsh, vocal, and escalate when someone in real life refuses to leave. Nobody's bullying him. He just refuses to bow out gracefully, and people aren't letting him get away with it. And you can *only* lie about otherwise because *you're not proposing any solutions.* The unspoken converse is "leave James alone and let him do what he wants," but you can't say that because you'll tear down that plausible deniability that you're not saying that. So instead you offer nothing.

[@hervvo]

@@crazyinsane500 Yeah I'm not interested in debating whether ANY people have harassed James Somerton or not. I think it's extremely likely that there are some people out there who have. And by "harassing", we may have differing definitions. You may think it's totally warranted for someone to send death threats to a person who "shits the bed at a party and refuses to leave", and I may disagree with that... but all of that is so not relevant to the point I was originally making. I don't know what you want me (or anyone) to offer solutions about... there's nothing to solve. I made some observations about human behavior, and you seem to think that I'm talking about James Somerton. I get that it's a comment on a video about James Somerton but like... I'm not talking about him. I'm not asking anyone to leave him alone - just because I chimed in with my thoughts about something in the video doesn't mean I personally identify with everything in the video. I do think that bullies suck, and it's shitty behavior to bully someone, but you're the one twisting my point to be about defending JS. You seem kinda defensive about this topic so if you feel like maybe people would define your behavior (or behavior you agree with) as bullying, and you don't agree, then consider changing or just agree to disagree? I don't know what else to say.. I feel like I've been really straight forward but I'm starting to get the feeling it's not about what I said.. it's more about how this video makes you feel.

[@crazyinsane500]

@@hervvo "there's nothing to solve." And there's perhaps the biggest lie so far. *He came back and doubled down on plagiarizing* So you're just lying in bad faith. Probably should've picked up on that earlier.

[@PhilosopherThom]

I'm very ambivalent about JS. If he decided to end it that would be his choice. It would be on brand of him to not actually do it but pretend to do it. Abusing peoples natural empathy and fear for others' safety for personal profit. I don't know JS. In a world without internet I wouldn't about his exsistence. Since he can't write well enough to get published the traditional way. I never watched his videos because there was no 'there' there. He existed. I was aware of it. He was in my eyes just a bad essayist on a platform full of good ones. Especially Queer ones. His Kanye West-esque ego crowing himself as king of the queer essayists. His terrible. Manipulative first apology video was so rephrensible in abusing people's good nature in not wanting people to die. I posted something about suicide once on Reddit. It was on the /lonely subreddit. I don't know if it is that helpful to many, but I know things about it and I can share my experiences. I was not entirely clear (because it was a hastily written post) that my suicidality is long in the past. I got *so many* DMs trying to contact me and telling me not to do it and said all kinds of sweet things. Everyone always says the internet is purely toxic, and point to Reddit etc. I'm not saying Reddit doesn't have bad things going on. But some sub forums are filled with emphatic people who wish to help others in need. Even I, not the nicest man in the world, will try and help on there if I see someone whose situation is similar to my own past one and I believe that my tactics would help them in creating a strong cohesive social network of friends. James Somerton abuses the natural empathy of others. In both videos he did this. He did it when he falsely accused someone who pointed out he plagiarised off putting people on him to threaten his life. He weaponized the good nature of other people. That makes him a piece of shit. That doesn't mean he should be killed for it. He shouldn't be harassed either. To people like him all attention is attention. And that is what he seeks. Attention, respect and fame. Without the willingness or (to be honest) the mental capability to create things of note. If he did end his own life it would have doubtlessly been done in an uncreative way that harms others (like jumping in front of a train. Traumatizing the conductor and making other people late. That way he'd at least have an impact on people until the end) I would say this to his face. I've told people like him off before. I don't respect him and I was and am ambivalent about his pulse. I just hope that when it stops he doesn't do it in a way that hurts other people. If he doesn't do it then find a way to live without, malicious and knowingly, hurting other people. We do need to be done with him. There is still a war in Ukraine. A genocide in Gaza. Droughts and famines. Difficult economies around the world leaving people in countries that are well of living paycheck to paycheck and barely making it. The fact that JS can't write is not terribly interesting. That enough people thought he could, is an indictment to the school systems and more worrisome. And that's already too much time spent on this post. We shall console ourselves with the fact that by the time natural causes get him (because everyone goes in the end) no time will be spent by anyone writing an obituary. Maybe some family member will ask Chat GPT to write one. A waste of computing power. But then again, I feel we should allow ourselves to waste some time living life. It makes the moments that matter so much more impactful.

[@thefullmetalmaskedduo6083]

They are harassing this guy for plagiarism. Meanwhile we have billionaire entrepreneurs that get away with plagiarism all the time.

[@crotchy7667]

I partially expected this to be a stunt so James Somerton could gather proof of how ghoulish people can be about someone committing suicide if they don't like the person or they have severely criticized the person before. I can't prove that's what Somerton had in mind. Don't bully him to suicide, of course. Also, we don't have to keep our mouths shut from criticizing what we believe was unethical behaviour.

[@DanM8195]

The obsessive way that Hbomber subreddit talks about James Somerton is just disturbing

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

They have done this to basically everyone he has made videos about. I saw an interview with a guy named Jordan Owen who said that Hbomberguy fans doxxed a stripper and sent Hbomb videos to her DMs just because Owen mentioned the club she works at in a clip that Hbomb used. Harris and his fans are serial harassers who have been doing this for nearly a decade.

[@selmaunsley6683]

Illuminaughti is still chugging away as if nothing happened, just saying

[@AshleyOlivia90]

Every time I think I’m chronically online there’s drama around some guy I’ve never heard of in my entire life 😂

[@EphemeralTao]

Very well said. The reaction has been grossly disproportionate to the actual offense. Most people attacking him don't even care what he actually did, they don't care about the people he ripped off or abused, they're just virtue-signaling and bandwagon-hopping because it makes them feel like they're part of something. It's all about group dynamics, trying to be part of the "in-group".

[@citrinedreaming]

I've seen the titles of a few videos speculating that Somerton has unalived himself, and seriously do people not understand that this is so far across the line it's in another universe? There's no humanity (especially when the same people who are making these videos are the ones who bullied Somerton the most to begin with!)

[@page8301]

How else are you going to report on a suicide note that was made public by himself?

[@citrinedreaming]

@@page8301 is that supposed to make it better? It’s still disrespectful and (in my opinion) very not ok to speculate on people’s clearly troubled mental health when no one really knows what’s going on

[@HogantheLogan]

100% agree. As a very small creator, I've had videos that got a ton of hate. And it's crazy to me the shit that people are willing to say to any content creator. Like as if we aren't human. Although what James did is terrible, there's no need to be the millionth person to say awful shit to him. Great video.

[@ThisSteveGuy]

People who are obsessed with the guy on reddit obviously need to knock it off. That certainly needs to be said, because it's both troubling and embarrassing. But we need to be careful about doing anything close to assigning guilt for an attempted or threatened suicide to others, especially seeing as how none of us are in possession of the facts. Anyone who uses suicide to make others feel guilty is a disgusting, manipulative creep. Period. No matter what. It's one of the worst things a person can do. And I'm sorry, but I really don't think it's fair for anyone to try to imply that this latest episode of his is "because of the hate mob". We don't know anything except for what he wrote, where all he said was it's "all my fault". He didn't say anything about comments from others pushing him over the edge. We simply don't know what happened or why. The last time that most people had thought about him was with the latest apology response from Jessie Gender, who couldn't have been nicer and was asking him for police reports to substantiate claims he was making. Then all the sudden, this happened. To me, that's more relevant than some random dorks on reddit, but again - I don't actually know anything.

[@generatoralignmentdevalue]

I'm seeing a lot of "well I wasn't a fan, but they must have felt so betrayed" in the comments, intended as some kind of pushback? I was a fan and I don't get that. Maybe if you lost a lot of money, but most of us didn't, and most of the harassing messages don't mention James owing them money. Mainly, donors and writers with real grievances have been discussing them in a civil manner. For my part as someone who felt bad that I could't afford to help James and Nick out, I was pretty shocked when hbomb revealed who his video was really about calling out. But I did what a normal person would do, and quietly unsubscribed. I did eventually leave a comment on apology #2 calling out some specific lies, but even then, it didn't occur to me to add a "and this is why you suck and should die" to my comment. I just engaged with the content of the video. Plenty of other former fans did likewise. So I don't think much of the harassment is from former fans. The part that is, I still don't think is somehow his victims getting justice. I think it's a few insecure goons who felt weak for being tricked, instinctively looked for someone else to punch down at to make themselves feel superior again, and got very lucky this time in that they had the opportunity to punch down at the very guy who tricked them. If Sommerton had stayed popular and not become such an easy target, they would have redirected that at the latest lolcow, a subordinate at work, or maybe a literal dog, because the harassment is not about justice.

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I’ve been appalled by the behavior of some on the so-called “left” recently when it comes to online harassment. We used to be able to take the moral high ground on this type of behavior, but now no longer.

[@talluna8619]

you're so absolutely correct. this kind of internet dogpiling has been a problem for a while now, but the stuff with james somerton is just it taken to its extreme

[@BabySharque]

Does putting the video on in the background at super low volume to fall asleep to count as watching it multiple times? Because I do that to basically any 2+ hour video I like lol Eta: FWIW I have been pretty conscientious not to make any posts on JS's content about the issue even though I was a fan of his for years and felt very let down. I am a recovering hateposter and have seen what endless hateposting does to all involved, both giver and receiver. It just spreads misery. Nowadays, if my comment doesn't add something to the conversation or lift someone up, I try not to leave one.

[@rogerbabin8175]

Agree that people need to stop telling them something they already know. My first job was working at McDonald's...if I put one pickle on a a Big Mac instead of two I wouldn't want the internet reminding me about this mistake thousands of times a day for months or possibly years either. I get it. Disagree with your last point that James has to move on. No he doesn't. He can just not look at comments. He can create a channel on socials that someone else manages for him. He can disengage but still be a youtuber. When youtubers become successful enough they do this already. Plenty of hated grifters like Peterson, Tim Pool and many more still operate despite entire channels dedicated to hate videos on stuff they talk about. iilluminaughtii is still posting regular content despite her major fallout and she appears to be doing just fine. Just less revenue than before. It would be the same with James.

[@DrMike18]

It’s so irritating. I had to mute all text with Somerton and Hbomberguy just to get it off the timeline to avoid the worst takes from the biggest idiots on twitter. And it gets more irritating when you think about the people spreading the most anger are people with no connection to Somerton. Like I could get it if it was the individuals who he plagiarized from or were his former patrons, but the majority of the anger is coming from people who never liked him in the first place but are so bored with their lives and need someone to attack.

[@daughterphoenix]

I was scared to look at the comments here but good on you for having such a reasonable, even-keeled audience. Yes, James Somerton bad, but a lifetime of bullying doesn't really seem proportionate to the crime? I can see it for actual pr*dators like Onision, but James is just kind of...a loser?

[@starlight8554]

It’s very true about the subreddit. I’m so tired of reading posts about somerton. It’s so annoying.

[@zuglymonster]

What I don't get is he's gotten more hate than people who have actually committed SA, nearly killed people, ect Like yes plagiarism is bad and he shouldn't have a youtube carrer but I don't think it rises to the level of "we need to drive him to unaliving himself" or "can't even get a retail job" as I've said actual child predators still have fan bases and don't get THIS much hate. I don't know why but I have sympathy for the guy. I think I just see alot of myself in him in the desperation for people to like me, because that's what it comes across as to me, it's almost like a radar I can just sense when someone has that desperate need to just feel liked. To look at the "cool crowd" and wonder "why can't I be like them? What did I do to deserve being bullied other than not be the typical AFAB person that girls in school at the time were supposed to be. I very strongly get the sense he was bullied and didn't fit in growing up and took on this role as "smart LGBTQA history guy" to shed whatever James he hates inside.

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

Plaigarism is literally the worst crime imaginable to a millionaire like Harris. That's why Harris had more vitriol for James than he did for the slumlord Illuminaughti.

[@kooljokez]

I stopped doing this sort of thing once I got out of highschool. Too much free time to go hating isn't a way I'd like to spend it

[@Deemo202]

I’m glad someone said it. I’m not saying what Somerton did was okay but people were treating him like he was the worst person walking the Earth. If ya don’t like someone's content just don't watch and support it. But just going to the video to just to be an ass is so weird to me.

[@purinpanda8302]

The worst type of bullies are the "righteous" ones. Because what they're doing can't be wrong if they're doing it to someone they think is bad right? (The gag being, they're terrible people too).

[@kdjets]

On the topic of Destiny, Noah Samsen did i great takedown of that by showing the strife and genocide of Palestinian people. It's a very hard video to watch, but Noah did an extremely comprehensive job of knocking down Destiny's arguments and providing very crucial education on the conflict.

[@stinkylilguy7948]

Which is crazy cos internet historian deserves that treatment more than

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

It is so telling that you think James Somerton and Internet Historian deserve more punishment that Illuminaughti, the pyramid scheme landlord who tried to start her own company town.

[@kingstarscream320]

Nah IH is based

[@floraposteschild4184]

First there's a "dogpile" on Somerton; now maybe one's starting on hbomberguy -- not so much on KZbin as on Twitter, etc. It's an exercise in shooting the messenger. If more, larger accounts called out plagiarism all along, or if there were real disincentives to plagiarize on social media platforms, this situation could have been controlled. As it is, it was ignored by MANY people who should have known better, and the pressure built up until it burst.

[@patty1247]

So most people begin the road to forgiveness by feeling sorry for themselves. That’s just the process, when we do something wrong and we get caught and face consequences at first EVERYONE is defensive. Realization and change usually happens with distance and reflection from the event. This is just based on what my friend who works in the prison system has told me about rehabilitation. And yes this comparison seems like a lot but my point is that being actually sorry will not happen overnight. It’s gonna take a lot of work on the offenders part but also grace and understanding from the larger world.

[@MatanteDodo]

When I was a kid, my parents were big into corporal punishment, and I haven't felt guilty about anything until I was about 6 years old, because whenever I messed up, I only felt fear, and more often than not entirely forgot whatever I did. One day, my parents weren't there and I stole my grandfather's croutons at the table, and he just looked at me and didn't say a word and let me keep them, and that was the first time I was actually able to think about what I did and realised I was being mean to him. Introspection only happens after the fear goes away.

[@nogi2167]

One thing people need to understand (and I think you do too, to some extent, Kav) is that derision and harassment are not the same thing. Calling James a scumbag is derision. Calling James a liar is derision. Saying James doesn’t deserve to come back to KZbin is derision. But it’s not harassment. It just isn’t, regardless of volume. People sending him death threats? People attacking his family? People doxxing him? That’s harassment. But acting as if that and calling James Somerton an asshole are somehow comparable is just not true. Does James feel like the whole world hates him? Does James feel bad when he sees the torrent of derisive comments? Does this have an effect on him? Of course. That’s not the issue. The issue is, this is all a prison of his own making. People are angry at him and are voicing their displeasure. It just so happens he pissed off ALOT of people. If you do something really shitty and the people around you treat you with scorn, you don’t get to go “Hey guys, I know I had it coming, but do you think you can tone it down a bit? It’s making me feel bad”. People would look at you like you’re crazy. Remember: James had absolutely no problem with having hundreds of thousands of eyes on him and his name in hundreds of thousands of mouths when he was using that notoriety to make a mint. But that audience can cut both ways. He doesn’t get to bilk thousands of people and then get defensive when thousands of people hate his guts. And the cosmically poetic thing is, James had absolutely no qualms about weaponizing his fanbase to send hate and harassment towards innocent people he didn’t like. But now suddenly we’re supposed to have a conversation on “going too far”? And a big part of the reason why this cycle keeps going with James isn’t because Hbomb insists on tweeting: it’s because JAMES insists on tweeting. He could have left the internet, walked off into the proverbial mist and this all would have died down. But he kept trying to come back, acting as if he had some right to return across a bridge he had thoroughly and acrimoniously burned. Hbomb tweeting about him isn’t Hbomb gleefully beating a dead horse: it’s him warning people to be vigilant and not allow James to return to a platform he had callously been exploiting. Kav, when you ask “when is enough enough”, the better question is “who gets to decide when enough is enough?” Who gets to be the one to tell other people when it’s time to stop being angry. To stop being hurt. To stop being derisive. You? Ultimately, how long this controversy goes on is in James’ hands. He can choose to end it by going gentle into that good night or he can keep dredging it up every time he insists on trying to return to a community who has made it clear it doesn’t want him. This isn’t Hbomb’s fault. This isn’t the fault of people who are angry. This isn’t the fault of people calling James a shithead on twitter. *This is James Somerton’s fault*

[@223Drone]

Well said, James Somerton needed to called out for both of his insincere apology videos but there is no need to harass him over his personal life. I just hope for his own sake that he accepts the fact his career as content creator is beyond saving so he can get help and move on with his life.

[@TheLithp]

You're making a really weird strawman of that Reddit post. Firstly, the fact that they could go to a different subreddit is a moot point because when they say "what else are we supposed to talk about?" they mean the posts IN the subreddit. What else is supposed to go THERE if not the subject of the most recent video? It doesn't depend on any specific, individual people continuing to post. As long as the subreddit still exists, the point remains. Secondly, saying he won't be forgiven FOR THAT by people ON THE INTERNET doesn't mean he can't move on with his life. I'm not even sure why you say he can't get a different job unless I'm missing something besides the plagiarism. There are a lot of jobs I don't think would care. In fact, I'd argue there are jobs that will downright encourage it as long as you don't get caught.

[@averysspookshowspectacular6205]

Somerton made a bad lie about how he was fired due to epilepsy in his first "apology" video. That possibility has been debunked due to Canadian laws on disability rights, but that may be what Kavernacle was thinking of. I agree that he probably won't (and in my opinion shouldn't) be forgiven and forgotten, but yeah, he can get a normal job and be a normal person again. Maybe some day when it's been long enough he can come back, take accountability, and forge a new small audience for himself.

[@Bewilderebeest]

I do wonder how much personal characteristics play into people dogpiling (such as Illuminaughtii being female or James being gay) and the standards they held others to in their content. Some types of people seem to slither by their pitchforking much easier than others.

[@coolshah1662]

This mob mentality is sickening. People don't know when to put on the brakes and step away. The hate these people are getting is insane.

[@nergregga]

Having empathy for people is good. What JS did was awful, but leave his appearence, and the fact that he's gay out of it. Those things have nothing to do with what he did.

[@cookingwithsilence]

James Somerton continues to go online and try to lie about what he did, he's really really trying to be deceptive with the utmost of his energy, when he isn't having mood swings where it's dawning on him that he will never be able to lift the mask back up. Most people just want him to compensate the people he stole from, but he never will, that would require him to do some work and make back all of the money that he has spent (probably most of it, most people gage their spending to match any level of income because they are disillusioned), he can't make back the money because he can't steal anymore and he's unable to work because he was always unable to work, he never learned how. He's kicking that under the rug, the money will be gone. Do you think the next generation is going to be like "oh I shouldn't try to become a millionaire off of stolen work because I might get mean comments, and even for several months". It's clear that he is trying to be deceptive, and he's repeatedly doing it on the platform, I'm not the one writing these comments but what you are suggesting would lead to a problem. Stealing and lying have so little recourse when you get caught, so much so that he is just putting his fingers in his ears and reciting events until the negative comments stop and he can deceive a small amount of people in the lgbtq community to continue to leach off of them. He's in denial, he's a parasite, and there is no other way for the community to do anything about this besides commenting. Even though I've not commented on James Somerton's comments, I'm definitely not going to tell people who were hurt by this to stop. This is horrible for the space. Guys like you and Hasan can't tell the difference between a medical patent that should be free for the people because it is a valuable resource, and someone's very personal art and words. Intellectual property. Some people craft their words, they don't just bullshit and gossip.

[@potts995]

Being rude online is instantly rewarding to people. One may get a sense of empowerment, punching back and overcoming an enemy, bolstered by likes, reposts, and positive engagement. That’s addictive, and thus, promoted. I _TRY_ not to be rude, but I do like some sass and humor. When someone posts something that I think is rude or ignorant, I tend to report it or respond with an unserious response to sow confusion and laughter within the OP. _Or so I believe!_

[@josephsager9425]

6:41 "and your turtlenecks aren't doing you any favors either." Savage.

[@BelowthePlains]

ive been doing the KZbin thing as a career for the past 2 years, and im about to pass 100k subs, sometime this month. My channel is in no way political or offensive to anyone in any way, and id say 99% of the comments are the nicest things i could ever read, and it makes me feel great, but 1% of them are just the meanest thing that comes out of nowhere. And if you had told me 2 years ago that those mean comments would effect me so much, i would not have believed it. For awhile i didnt even look at the comments bc it fucked with my head so much. id never admit this in any format where people who watch my videos could see it (because im worried it will inspire the haters to comment more if they think its working) but yeah i can see what you mean about the comments thing. It used to make me feel bad a year ago, and at some point my skin got thicker and when i see a mean comment i just feel bad for the person leaving it. and i know what you mean about being able to click on their profile and see their picture, their playist and the channels they are subbed to. I used to respond to make myself feel better but.. i once got a homophobic remark directed at us, and i looked at the guys profile and he was a 60+ year old man who had a playlist called "lady boys" and it was a bunch of weird interviews with Thai trans women (the video format was weird not the trans women, it was weirdly uncomfortable interviews with what seemed like un-easy prostitutes) ... the point of the story is that it image these hateful comments are a lot of projection most of the time. i just felt bad for the guy who i assumed was gay or bi and had to live as a straight man, probably with a wife and kids. Now, if i do respond to any of those comments, i never try to be cruel, bc i dont wanna fucking bring anyone down, even if they are just acting out their aggression on me... But this is why im a leftist, because... can you image living your entire life pretending to be something your not?... i dont want to live in that world, let alone bring a child into that world.. anyway. i like your videos dude, been watching since you were around 50k subs, (i could tell bc you had those chocolate oranges in the background. ) Dont let the haters get you down! congratz on your best month ever, i know how fucking good that feels!

[@gemwilliams6486]

To be honest, I think the whole “there are worse people on KZbin but no one is coming for them/why is no one coming for them” point or whatever is kinda bullshit. That’s just a subjective observation based on your singular scope of view. I have been seeing people come after worse people on KZbin throughout this Sommerton mess in droves. Illuminaughtii and Vaush immediately come to mind and I know there’s more. We can’t see everything that’s happening on KZbin all of the time. We all miss stuff that occurs sometimes, even stuff that’s been blowing up. So just because you think people haven’t come for anyone else like they have for James, doesn’t mean that’s true. Also, some of those “worse people” haven’t had exposés made about them by people with big platforms or that have been blessed by the algorithm with vitality. So not enough people know about what they’ve done and what criticism those people have received doesn’t end up on anyone’s radar. That was just a v flawed point to make.

[@elizabethlovett4318]

This video really speaks to me. It's great and needs to be covered more. The hating is wild to me, there are people I dislike but most times I don't care enough to go online to make hate comments and even if I ever did or will in the future, I wouldn't go far because I struggle to be rude even online. I for one can't stand the Kardashians but I've never been on any of their social media pages because I don't care enough to bother. I prefer to fully ignore them. But given what your video is about, and I admire you for making it, so I decided to share and be honest about who I dislike and how I handle it. I guess it helps me that I was never really that interested in social media, and I really can't stand 'reality' shows. I do watch youtube and I just want to relax and enjoy myself a bit. Another example of people hating is Nickelback. I don't know much about the band, all I know is that whenever I asked someone in school "Why do so many people hate Nickelback?" I never got a real answer, at most I only got "Oh, everybody hates them". People can like and dislike any music artist all they want but I least expected "I just don't like their music" for an answer. The lack of reason for the hate was very weird to me and it still is. 🤨

[@DocStench]

I love that your brand is becoming self reflection and ethical growth ❤