We Need To Rethink Dating Culture (Financially And Otherwise)

[@elizabethwillis885]

Our country makes it hard as hell to have kids. I have two kids. They have cost me so much money. The country provides so very little for parents. Of course people don’t want to have kids nowadays! If the country wants us to have more, they need to make childcare more affordable. Health care universal. More child tax credits. Longer maternity and paternity leave. I could go on and on. The US makes it so hard to have kids!

[@davea6314]

That's why I campaigned for Bernie Sanders for president...

[@bridgiesue7]

This is literally the reason why I left the US. When I first moved to Italy all my American friends kept saying "I don't know how you live on the tiny salaries they pay there" (average salary in Italy is MUCH lower than the US), but between cost of living being much lower here and all of the services that the country provides to it's citizens, it was a no-brainer for me. The US does almost nothing for the future of its citizens, and then is surprised when millennials haven't made any major life steps in the last 20 years.

[@Tephiffany]

Try being single with no kids and see how many benefits you get...point is... no one is entitled to anything...

[@davea6314]

@@Tephiffany I'm single with no kids too, but you are wrong. We have the resources to help children in struggling families to ensure the next generation is healthy and educated. Denmark prospers with this position. The problem is that too many fools here in the USA are brainwashed by the Faux Propaganda Channel (AKA Fox News), lying Newsmax, and lying OAN...

[@davea6314]

Here is my reply to username "Tephiffany": I'm single with no kids too, but you are wrong. We have the resources to help children in struggling families to ensure the next generation is healthy and educated. Denmark prospers with this position. The problem is that too many fools here in the USA are brainwashed by the Faux Propaganda Channel (AKA Fox News), lying Newsmax, and lying OAN...

[@GoblinsAreAGirlsBestFriend]

As a bisexual woman I would love to see more lesbian representation in discussions like this! I feel like sharing how women conquer these things together is also vital for straight women to see. Lesbians by both the straight and gay community are so often still "the sibling we speak of but don't invite because she's not as fun as gay men and straight women". It reinforces their/our feeling that we are not welcome in feminine spaces. Would love to see a round 2 of this with lesbian representation; there is so much emotional resource in just the concept of figuring out finances without any masculine roles involved.

[@sherunswithscissors]

I would love that 🙂.

[@KHBogWitch]

Anyone who has ever lived in a place with multiple couples can tell you, it gets messy. When I first moved in long-term with my husband, he was living in a townhouse with 2 other couples and a German shepherd. The amount of drama that ensued about food, bills, even rent-whether to charge more to the couple with the master suite, whether to charge per person or per bedroom, etc-was intense. I imagined burning our roommates’ shit on the lawn many times, and none of us were romantically involved with anyone but the person we shared our bedrooms with. Can’t imagine how it could have gone sideways if we’d also been navigating a communal romantic relationship. To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with polyamory. I have mad respect for those who can successfully navigate it, based on my own cohabitation experience.

[@thepragmatist]

I agree with what your saying here in this comment. My experience with polyamory (a long time ago) is that it's very time consuming and it gets messy really quickly. I don't think I'd want to do it again unless everyone involved was very mature and 100% honest. And that is a really hard situation to attain. Most people will slant the truth in their favor.

[@IshtarNike]

I think the issue here is our fairly toxic culture around money and possessions more so than whether these people are romantically involved or not. I mean everything you described happens with roommates right. You just swap romance for two pairs of good friends and you have almost exactly the same dynamic of two sets of people getting into intense toxic shit. And it's notable how the toxicity you describe is around, as usual, money and possessions. I think we do need to carefully consider how much our relationship problems and culture problems are a result of our economic and political problems. Obviously it's not all of it, you can't reduce everything to money, but seeing as the number one source of relationship breakdown is money problems I think it's far more important than we realise. And as such the answer lies beyond merely personal changes in how we view money and goes more towards our wider system.

[@prettyprincess8187]

Yeah, I don't have anything against it but I can't see it working long term outside of a book.

[@shelbyschroder4140]

I will say as a women in terms of my apartment. It does become a depression nest sometimes. It's a herculean task for my chronic pain to clean. I get embarrassed and struggle when people come over. I can make it look good, but I'm exhausted.

[@aeolia80]

I'm finally in a position where I can take an extended hiatus from working for the first time ever in my life, in my 40s, I started having really bad perimenopausal anxiety and with the pandemic it's only gotten worse, so I told my spouse I needed a few or more years off, my spouse takes the brunt of most of the incoming salary (he has a really decent salary and we have no kids), but I do have some decent savings, anyways, this is also the first time I was able to "keep house" in a way where I don't have anxiety anymore over whether our place is not just decent and not so cluttered but actually clean on the regular, yeah, sure, I've taken on most of the domestic work (my spouse still does 80% or the vacuuming and does all the trash/recycling and cleans the litter box), but I don't feel over worked now. If we were struggling though with money or I was on my own, I don't know if I'd be able to do it, I might consider hiring a cleaner, but not everyone can afford that, especially not me before when I was single, so I really feel for ya, I don't wanna say it's a reason to partner up and settle down, but I can start to see why it would start to appeal to some people.

[@PhantasmalBlast]

As a man, same. I tend to stay out of my space as much as possible. I always hate myself so much when I get home and look at my messy awful space, and try to go to sleep immediately so I don’t have to think about it. If I am spending time there awake I try to be on my phone or just lay in bed and not think about it.

[@ck7506]

​@@PhantasmalBlast If you can afford it, there are professional organizers and interior designers out there who can help you with that! Even someone from taskrabbit for a couple of hours. Or ask a stylish friend or relative for some help and ideas. I'd help someone organize and style their apartment in a heartbeat just for fun. Good luck and I hope you'll be able to enjoy your home at some point soon.

[@shelbyschroder4140]

@@ck7506 I wish. I also wish it could be covered by disability. I'm not on it myself because the US makes it insanely difficult.

[@PhantasmalBlast]

@@ck7506 You know, I’ve never once considered getting a professional organizer’s help. I’m too embarrassed by it to let a friend help lol. But I might look into that. I probably can’t afford it but I’ll see. Thanks for the kind words and advice!

[@Natalie_11188]

I understand what you’re saying Chelsea about “getting to live as a man” because you’re childfree. I have felt the same way especially when it comes to dating and romance.

[@sarahbuck2506]

I come to TFD for valuable financial advice and social commentary, and getting to hear you dish about your relationships is a delightful cherry on top of it. So relatable. I've had multiple relationships with dudes who had heaps of empty soda bottles just chilling in every corner, and that was only the beginning.

[@Iamso4u]

As a woman, I always offer to split the bill regardless of the gender of my date. Or even who asked who because I don’t want to ‘owe’ anyone anything. I don’t think everyone has that mentality, but I’d rather keep it low stakes, at least to begin with.

[@thepragmatist]

I'm a woman and I completely agree with you.

[@sarahbuck2506]

Agreed. I've always offered to pay or split just to avoid that. It's good to have a dinner date early though. Gotta make sure you aren't wasting time on someone who is rude to wait staff

[@KOGitnow]

Here here! When I was younger I went on a couple of dates where the guy insisted on paying, but then often “insisting” on something else in return and I gave in. But as I got older I was like nope!

[@sarahwatts7152]

The number of men who have wanted not just a girlfriend from me, but a mother/maid/therapist is just staggering. (Mother: bodily cleanliness/health, maid: cleanliness of their space, therapist: I was the only person they spoke to about their emotions)

[@thepragmatist]

Agree. It's very important to suss this out in the beginning because, of course, no guy is going to outright tell you that this is what they are looking for.

[@JEDonnert]

I don't date guys longer than 3 months because of this. Once I start feeling like your mom instead of a partner, you're not attracting anymore.

[@edbop]

Maybe a rather personal question but are your parents separated? I only ask in that if you have seen two people desperately in love and each others best friend, that is what you want for yourself. It seems many people are unable to form genuine relationships with the opposite sex because they never saw genuine relationships while growing up. Perhaps try and form genuine relationships with men outside of dating and then you may find it possible to form genuine relationships with people you date.

[@trentpettit6336]

Did any of these guys seem to have a fetish for women's feet?

[@MzShonuff123]

@@edbopshe said she doesn’t want to do the lion’s share of work for an adult who should be able to act like an adult and your immediate reaction was to say she must not know what relationships are? 😂 It sounds like *you* don’t know what relationships are, because they don’t mean one side providing constant labor for the other side, who expects the labor and has not intentions of growing up or being a real adult.

[@eklectiktoni]

Coffee shop/low investment dates where each individual pays for their meal is the way to go. Not only is it more equitable, but removes the risk for both parties. It protects men from women who just want a nice meal on a guy's dime. And it protects women from sleazebags who act as if they're owed sex or a second date simply because they paid for your meal.

[@thepragmatist]

Great comment. I completely agree with you.

[@Ykoz2016]

💯 agree 👍

[@demogorge511]

Yeah… that doesn’t work. Speaking from experience, if you try that, the girl will think that you’re broke or cheap. Neither is attractive.

[@eklectiktoni]

@@demogorge511 Well, you might need to be more transparent about it. Say something like: "I prefer to keep things low-key on the first few dates so we can focus on actually getting to know one another. I know some guys love to go all out and spend a ton on the first date, but I'm not trying to buy your company. I don't want a transactional relationship." Speaking as a woman, I can say that if she's put off by that, she might the wrong type of girl for you.

[@thepragmatist]

I think that's completely reasonable, especially if you're meeting for the first time off a dating app. You don't even know each other.@@eklectiktoni

[@AR-md1zq]

As a cishet woman one of the reasons I’m not in a relationship by choice is the overwhelming gender roles centered around housekeeping. I find housekeeping tedious exhausting and nauseating so I pay for it. But in relationships with cishet men they declare that as a woman this is my duty not just for my own place but for theirs as well. 🤢

[@prettyprincess8187]

Yup and I refuse. I've been spoiled by my family in many aspects my whole life so I've come to terms with the fact that whoever I end up with will need to continue to alleviate the load. This isn't to say I don't clean at all but the difference is "up after myself" vs "after another grown adult".

[@theadrenalizedartist6843]

This was an insightful episode. I am Gen X and single, as in never married, and childless. Thinking about all the gender norms and requirements that our society has had in my lifetime for hetero couples is just overwhelming to me. I state this because I’m now tasked with caretaking for my senior parents who are Boomers. Growing up I watched my mom be both homemaker roles and beyond full time worker outside of the home. Now I think subconsciously chose to end any relationship in which I remotely thought the same thing would be expected of me. Even now I would love to be a life partner and even have a family, but there seems to be unfair expectations around money and division of labor more often than not. Thank you for doing this episode because regardless of a person’s gender or sexuality, I think everyone needs to have these conversations if they’re going to be in committed relationships.

[@prettyprincess8187]

From experience, a guy could buy a $3 smoothie from McD's and still expect you to put out. I think whoever initiated the date should pay (I hold this belief with pretty much any outing. If you invite your friends, you pay unless it's discussed otherwise.) The other person can grab the tip or dessert/drinks (I do this when I'm invited on a date that has a part two). I think manners and etiquette comes into play too, which I think ppl have lost nowadays. I'm not going on dates to get free food, but if you're choosing the date, choose what you can afford. Don't pretend to be Richie Rich when that's gonna make you grumpy and unpleasant. I've been on "cheap" dates that were super sweet bc the guy put in EFFORT and thoughtfulness. One of my favorites was mini golf and dinner bc he loved golf and I had never been. It gave me a chance to get to know him and what he likes in a pretty setting. I've also been on super expensive dates where the guy complained the whole time about the cost when HE CHOSE THE RESTAURANT 😂😂

[@namedrop721]

THIS a million times

[@juliegolick]

Just a note about the poly conversation: polyamory doesn't necessarily mean cohabitating. I'm solo poly, have had 2-3 partners for the last few years (depending on how you're counting "partners"), but live alone and intend to continue living alone. I absolutely agree that housing arrangements become more difficult the more people you add to the mix, but "poly" doesn't NECESSARILY mean "living together."

[@rrssna]

My experience with male roommates (of which I’ve had a total of two) has been contrary to common expectations. My first one was a heterosexual cisgender Latino male (I am too), and while we lived together, our apartment was always immaculate. How we divided cleaning duties was very organic and equitable, with very little, if at all, conflict. My second male roommate was a cisgender gay man, who was very fastidious about discussing apartment cleaning/maintenance duties, but very neglectful as to in reality performing them, (too busy with his studies in graduate school, according to me) so I ended up performing the grand majority of domestic tasks in the apartment. The rest of my roommates have been females, and I’ve found it’s just been so much easier and balanced for me as to domestic tasks, with less conflict and more communication.

[@johnsoncylee]

I've found that many Latinos who grew up in Latin America are excellent at housekeeping and like things to be clean. It's a big plus for them I think.

[@jakedesnake97]

I'm a straight man, and I generally pay 100% on the first date unless she says anything like "we should split the bill" before the server arrives. To me it's not explicitly for patriarchal reasons or because I expect anything in return; rather, gift giving is my love language, and I'm generally the one who proposes the date so I feel it falls on me to pay. Moreover, there are some girls who genuinely seem to expect for the man to pay on the first date, so it's kind of a Pascal's wager situation where, if that's not what she expects, she'll just be pleasantly surprised. As always, it's so interesting to hear the non-hetero male POV on a more taboo subject, hence why I love the channel!

[@LisaSoulLevelHealing]

Someone invited me out. We had a great time, but we split the bill. He had been texting me sense, but I have absolutely no desire to talk to him. Because he didn't pay 🤷🏾‍♀️ and I have my own money, it's not about that. It's about them thinking they don't have to show me any sort of special treatment. And if he doesn't know that, what else doesn't he know about expectations. Anyways, I'm a little low key but not too low-key. But will say I did split the bill on one date, but he's picked up the tab subsequently everytime after - but I can tell he valued me and who I was, so grace was given.

[@RealSigmaQueen]

I think you are the prime example of a man who should be utilizing coffee dates, or gelato dates, as a starting point. You can always go for a second date, or even extend an afternoon meet-up into a meal. Any woman who thinks your time isn’t special treatment enough while getting to know you, will always see you as a wallet and not a person.

[@LisaSoulLevelHealing]

@@RealSigmaQueen why are you explaining to a man what he should be doing. He said what he said.... So weird you want to tell him to do opposite what he as a man, taking the traditional role, to be less of a provider.... Then be the same women complaining men arent providers.

[@RealSigmaQueen]

@@LisaSoulLevelHealingPaying for a coffee or cocktail date is still providing. It’s still gift giving. He sounds like a nice guy. And a nice girl will appreciate a latte, but an expensive dinner and she may feel pressure to put out. Unfortunately for him, men use money to manipulate women into sex. So even if that’s not his intention, it could still be perceived that way. I still say better to go for coffee and extend the date into dinner. BTW - I watched a few of your videos. I get it. You went so far left you circled right. You’re totally into the dark [toxic] femininity. Red pill adjacent. I imagine any guy, even a red pill guy, who watches your channel would run in the opposite direction as fast as they could. You’ve got to collect those first date dinners because you don’t get many second and third dates. 😆🙃😆

[@LisaSoulLevelHealing]

@@RealSigmaQueen you are a male pretending to be a woman. If men like this listen to you, you all can have fun being with each other. The fall of the roman empire is here (american) marked by the increase in gay men and effeminate men.

[@AlexielRaziel]

I'm here to correct your numbers on adoption costs. PRIVATIZED adoption in the US costs $40k+. Adopting a child from FOSTER care cost about $2500, IF you get charged anything at all. And most states will give you a tax break and an adoption credit as well. There are about 210 THOUSAND children WAITING to be adopted in the foster care system that get overlooked because people go to FOR PROFIT or privatized adoption agencies. Many for profit or privatized adoption agencies prey on the vulnerability of Poor or disadvantaged women to coerce rse them into giving up their child for adoption which they sell. The children available for adoption and foster care have already gone through a very vetted system to make sure that there is no available kin, or person in their community that is there to adopt them.

[@_jaazwoj2633]

Speaking from a Chaos Queens✨ blended family- this was such a wonderful conversation to hear with a queer voice . Love your channel, love how this was so relatable in ways I don’t often experience in discourse about relationships/ family / finance.

[@Daveyjonesvi]

As a gay myself. I will tend to pay if I know I have more money/means than my date. I think men having conversations about money is a bit easier compared to hetero couples as well. Or at least for me. That being said even if I have the means I prefer my date to do something to make it up like planning cheap or low cost dates. Offering to pay for the cheaper activity if we do multiple things. Dating especially early on is expensive so I appreciate when there’s effort made to spend time together with little costs involved

[@crownmaiden]

More like this, please!!! I just had a fantastic emotional labor and forming friendships with my spouse after watching this. So relevant and thought-provoking. Thank you

[@thatjillgirl]

I feel like for a first date, it makes plenty of sense to just go Dutch. Everyone pays for exactly what they want and can afford, nobody resents the other or feels like something is now owed or like they're being manipulated or whatever. A first date is just for spending a little time getting to know one another anyway. If it works out, you can start treating each other later. But I think everyone just paying for themselves makes sense on a first date. And if you're going to have one person paying, everyone needs to be respectful. The person being treated shouldn't run up the bill above what they would normally spend on themselves, and the person treating should just view it as a gift, not an exchange.

[@thepragmatist]

I completely agree, especially if you are meeting a person for the first time from a dating app. It's different if you have known each other in person for a while and someone wants to pick up the bill.

[@namedrop721]

Disagree. If you ask someone out, you pay. It was your idea, and you are hosting.

[@thatjillgirl]

@@namedrop721 I wouldn't call it hosting if you're meeting outside of your home. And while I think it's nice for the inviter to offer to pay, I don't think it has to be a requirement, especially the way so many people set up first dates online these days.

[@Classiclover4ever]

fantastic conversation, i maintain that even in queer relationships, the default is to model cishetronormative patriarchal ways of dealing with things even tho queer relationships should offer an alternative model and this is why it s so important to fight gender roles so much.

[@nicolec9109]

I absolutely loved this episode. I am not queer, but often think how patriarchal systems absolutely break down in queer spaces. It seems like this is not so straightforward, as heteronormative culture still has a deep influence . 10/10

[@georgemonje5997]

the joint slay. love when the two of you get together on the pod!

[@AdamTLyon]

Such a great episode. More of this queer/hetero compare/contrast please. When you all were talking about men having lifelong acquaintances and women having deep relationships I wanted to scream. I agree so much and will be talking to my therapist about this at our next appointment. Thank you for creating a space to have conversations like this.

[@faux-nefarious]

Ryan is a delight! Would love to see them more 😊 as a queer person, I appreciated (and agreed with) those aspects of the convo

[@sarahwatts7152]

Happy to hear Too Good to be True is set to come back! Great podcast.

[@HappyCrackers]

“Our story begins in Atlanta Georgia”

[@JEDonnert]

A non-binary niece and nephew is called a nibbling. I have a nibbling so I learned that for them 😊❤

[@Daveyjonesvi]

I don’t like the idea that gay men go straight into hooking up. That is definitely not the case with genz gays(25yo exp). Many of us do go on proper first dates and establish that we don’t want to hook up before figuring out how we feel about each other. It’s a very “traditional” method of dating and most of us still live at home or with other people so we tend to need to get out to see each other before we see how we live.

[@IshtarNike]

I don't know if the oyster story was real but the background of the video left by the woman herself (real or not), is that the man had been pursuing her for a while and she'd been breadcrumbing him or even ignoring him. She finally decided to answer his texts and when he suggested they go for drinks she took him up on the offer. In the video she was very dismissive of him and clearly told us she wasn't interested in him at all. She ordered oysters and when she found out they were delicious she decided to indulge herself seeing as she was on a date. Now maybe its fake but just as a hypothetical situation its interesting to discuss.

[@LisaSoulLevelHealing]

Its not. Just viral clout seekingand a gullible public.

[@tedtalksrock]

Sounds like you’re describing the plot of the Barbie movie… lol

[@canineeverything]

Great video, I appreciate the inclusion of a non-cis-straight voice!

[@ShykinArcana]

The talk about male friendships can reminds me how out of step my experiences are from my hobbies compared the common experience. I am very involved in a niche hobby (competitive fighting games) that creates a male dominated but very personal experience that is also in person. So I have a lot of male friends who I know their mental health struggles. I know their worries and anxieties. We have that emotional connection with each other. Its not strange to see someone cry or hug or both on stage on stream. I don't know what the faceless mass thinks of that, but the community in attendance has reacted really positively to that. So I can't relate to only having life long acquaintances and a low emotional connection to them. At the same time, I said male dominated and it is true. I have very few fem presenting friends and I don't know how normal it is for women to have a lot of male presenting friends, but I feel like it is definitely a struggle. It definitely came to mind when you mentioned male friends who basically count on their friend's SOs to have fem presenting friends. Definitely made me think more... and wash my pillow.

[@katypiette3581]

I absolutely adore you two!! Love all the topics touched on!!! Great episode!

[@teddykennedy8096]

As a man who loves TFD, I’d push back on the trope that men dont have as deep of friendships and thus that explains the fewer blowups/fallouts. While i will contend that male relationships do tend to be activity based, I have deep and loving friendships with male friends, and I feel like this is a pretty hard generalization to be made and honestly not a very productive or helpful statement. On the side of the social lives, i understand that female friends of yours might plan social events anecdotally for them and their male partners, I plan and create most of my female partner and I’s social calendar (also anecdotally), neither of which can be generalized to the popukation or culture at large. Theres no data collection on this. I do think that the bar is lower for men (hetero wize) as there are more women seeking relationships than men at any given time, which is a generalizable statistic and could result in these compromises. I love TFD and the content you put out but I felt somewhat peeved by these particular statements, as again, you’re generalizing what seem to be anecdotes.

[@aeolia80]

ok, as someone that lives in France and owns an apartment here, and has my toilet separate from the bathroom....... with no sink in the toilet room by the way......... I have to touch at LEAST 2 door handles before I can wash my hands!!!!!!! that's as gross or more so than knowing what happens when you flush the toilet. And most toilet rooms in France don't have a sink, except for the newest builds and even then. And as a person with a uterus that has a monthly period, not being able to clean up after myself in the toilet....... mm-mm, nope, worst thing ever because I always end up having accidents, lol. But one caveat is that since the plumbing is exposed in my place for the most part, it's easier to tap into the water intake and waste pipes from the toilet and instal a sink in that room, only cold water, but that's good enough, and we can get really small sinks herein France that don't take up too much space, so eventually my beau-pere is gonna instal a sink in our toilet, and I'm gonna be SOOOO happy, hahahah

[@lestranged]

I have seen a toilet tank cover that has a tiny sink built in. cold water only, but it seems like a good option for very small toilet rooms.

[@MarkoD-kd1gy]

I really enjoyed this episode, however, not all men are unclean . It all ties, into being disciplined with your cleanliness, as well as having financial & physical standards . For myself , wh is also a shift worker; - I love to cook for a woman when I am dating a woman. - I make sure, even after we hour shifts, I make sure my kitchen & island are always wiped down & clean. - I always clean the house on my first day off after working 4 on. - I do a little bit laundry everyday. - I have a house cleaner come in every few months. These are habits, that we need to teach children. I used to be a very messy person. After, I left the Police Academy, I realized how important standards are.

[@putnam120]

The house cleaner and frequency at which you do laundry are impacted by your financial situation, but agree with the larger sentiment.

[@thepragmatist]

Good for you! You sound very disciplined.

[@Ayosubzero]

The second half of the podcast is when the conversation picks up steam. I appreciate the conversation around the topic of having children. I wish I wanted to have a child. I wish I could see my self finding the strength to be a father. The reality is I can’t afford it and I don’t want to struggle myself to death raising a child so society can have another potential employee. I can’t do it. For now that’s my answer.

[@RF-ye7wu]

The mothers cleaning up after their grown sons thing is so real and so baffling. I watch my 40 something uncles visit my grandparents home and never lift a finger, and I never fail to be amazed

[@madeleine66166]

"Nibling" is my favorite term I've heard used for an NB alternative to Niece/Nephew!

[@terri2069]

First time watching this show. What an intelligent conversation. Learned so much. I'll be back!

[@kokitsunetora]

There's already a word for niece/nephew: nibling.

[@kaydkaydkayd]

rly love that they bought up that most queer ppl never want kids / never expect to have them bc that rly does change how partnerships work i feel as though a lot of times that one partner will want someone to care for n so theyll end up taking more financial burden in their relationships n that ends up making things lopsided - at least from an outsider’s pov anyways

[@jenniferwells2291]

I first starting dating in the early 90s. From that time I have always paid for myself so that there would be no expectations of "owing" him anything. I've only had a couple of guys who were very insistent that they pay. I've even paid for the guys a few times. I kept to Dutch into adulthood until I had been dating my now husband for awhile, then he paid some of the time. I'm also great with using coupons for dates lol! Although I feel people should pay for themselves and not try to get someone else to fund their fancy meal, I feel that those who say they refuse to pay are the same ones who expect sex on the first date. One of the things I was happy about when I went to my now husband's place was that it was clean and things were put away. I'm disabled and the number of dates who couldn't be bothered to at least clear a path so I could safely walk through was ridiculous. I'm bi but haven't had a chance to date a woman yet, hoping it would be better lol

[@brandycolmer7052]

Such a good convo. That quote at the end is such a gut punch. 🥊

[@BlueBannette]

I gotta say, I have literally never laughed this hard watching a none explicitly comedy related KZbin video in my life lol

[@WatermelonSugar1209]

I always paid 50% on dates especially in the beginning. Later when we were together we would alternate between dates. This should be the norm. I find it weird that men are expected to pay for everything. I mean it’s it’s a coffee then fine like don’t do that 50-50

[@RamenzillaX]

As a gay, I do find some of the things hetero men and women fuss about with dating to be...kind of bizarre and unrelatable. Most of us are overworked and underpaid. In my dating experience, the hardest part is finding a man who will be honest about what they actually want, lol. For actual dates - I like low pressure, low commitment dates at first and if we still want to see where it goes then we can split meals or take turns treating each other. I'm interested in being equals/partners - not dividing our contributions by some arbitrary heteronormative model. I suppose being socialized as a man has resulted in two things: 1) it was ingrained in me that I have to be financially independent/successful to be a valuable member of society and 2) I had to teach myself how to do basic tasks that my mother did for me growing up. I showed up to college and I had no idea how to cook or do laundry, lol. It was seen as "normal" for me to be incompetent and need mommy to do everything for me, basically. I don't view not being able to cook or do laundry as a flex - if you live by yourself - taking care of yourself is a valuable skill. Do I actually like cooking on the other hand? Not really lol.

[@kimberlybega8271]

Thank you, thank you for acknowledging that domestic abuse is not always cis male perpetrator and cis female victim!! This episode makes me so thankful once again that my husband is as cleanly as he is (both in terms of personal hygiene and in terms of contributions to keeping our home clean). If anything he is the tidier one of us and has helped me build better habits. I hear too many stories from women married to/partnered to men who receive very little help even if they both are working.

[@Melisssssa27]

Love any video with Ryan!!!

[@libraryminnie7674]

I like for the guy to pay initially since I feel like women spend so much to get waxing, nails done, new lingerie, etc. I will pay on date three and back and forth there after, unless one of us is making disproportionately more money. Maybe a little random that this is my MO, but that is my deal. And if he has lied about his finances and starts not paying for anything or you notice a woman’s name on the credit card who turns out to be his OTHER girlfriend, then we must part ways. Yes, that did happen to me!

[@balalaika852]

So, what you're saying - dating between men and women is transactional and women are the product men buy. The thing is, not everybody looks at it this way. It was your choice to buy new lingerie and get your nails done. Nobody asked you. You did it for yourself, but you expect it to be subsidised by someone you don't even know. That's entitlement.

[@helenaquin1797]

​@balalaika852 I don't think she's saying that exactly. Until there is pay equity in workplaces, for a woman to get spiffed up is decidedly more than it costs for men. Even haircuts, dry cleaned shirts, razors, some shampoo for men, are noticeably cheaper than what women pay.

[@jesusbarrera6916]

@@helenaquin1797 cool and does anybody force you to spend so much? no then just pay your stuff or date poor men and pay for their food

[@helenaquin1797]

@jesusbarrera6916 I pay for my stuff and the men I've dated must approve of my spending as they seem to want to pay. Though I DO pay on occasion and/or make meals for a certain person on occasion as it is cheaper (even with fine ingredients used). It also makes me happy to cook for someone I like.

[@kimberly6243]

​@jesusbarrera6916 NO. Nobody is going to date poor men and pay for their food. Stop parroting red pill incel narratives. If she likes to fix herself up with beauty for her date, that is her business. I'm sure the man she dates enjoys the new lingerie on her, nails Etc.

[@aridianknight3576]

While I appreciate and value both of your perspectives and anecdotes on this issue I would have loved to have had a straight male perspective involved in this as well. Because in my head I came up with (what I thought) were some insightful and meaningful responses to some of the questions y’all posed about straight male socialization and perspectives on gender roles

[@VujaDeGaming]

I was concerned when the topic of "male appartmens" was broached but quickly had a sigh of relieve because the only one of these I relate to is the dust.

[@loventa]

Chelsie talking about her old husband’s apartment, that was a bitchin. Bathroom + Kitchen = Bitchin We had a bitchin for a long time at my friend’s office.

[@alexandrac591]

🤣🤣🤣

[@channel0athena]

The way I cackled when she said “he always allowed me the pillow” 😂😂😂😂

[@nene8120]

i’ll never understand how cisgender straight men/boys live the way they live 😭

[@jakedesnake97]

I obviously can't understand fully the female psyche, but I feel us straight men are "wired" to fixate on very specific interests and find the rest to be unimportant. That's why you have stereotypes like the "gamer basement", the gym bros who are super disciplined about their diet and exercise but live like slop, or the messy garage where men do construction projects. We tend to look at the world in very practical terms generally, so if the kitchen is messy but I can still make food, who cares? I'm ashamed to say how much my college appartment was an absolute mess but hey, it got the job done as a place to study and sleep. It's unfortunately only when I became an adult that I gained an appreciation for the value of personal pride that a clean home can bring.

[@sherunswithscissors]

@@jakedesnake97That’s a fine theory but someone still has to load the dishwasher.

[@crescentmoondesigns7515]

Oooh you did my suggestion thank you 😅😊😊😊

[@BillionaireMindsetArchive]

Starting off I think the man should still pay, and set expectations right from the start

[@RealSigmaQueen]

But then make it a low key (ie coffee) date. No matter how rich you are (and I have dated rich, successful men), I’m never 100% comfortable when a man pays the full bill for an extravagant first date. What if he’s dull? Or mean? Or arrogant? I’m not rich but I’m financially independent. That gives me the luxury to appreciate a man for more than his wallet.

[@UrFaveMF]

I feel like if you had a serious debt conversion in a polycule one person would express their concern and another would say you’re not being accepting 🙄

[@NalaS]

The bachelor pad story 😂

[@nedas9187]

OMG, those pants (Chelsea). Please some info on brand/model.

[@WatermelonSugar1209]

Loving your shirt

[@gilliangiles7773]

I appreciate this I am non binary and I appreciate this because like there's not much convo about this in community. I would have appreciated some sapphic representation because culturally we are really oriented towards men paying but there no men or masculines in that situation

[@supernova622]

I mean I think as they both observed, we still often slip into the same roles of the more masc person taking on traditional male roles like with paying

[@hollyclark4518]

At first, I was very not interested in this video... But now... Oh my G-d we gotta talk about boys rooms. The hell fellas... You deserve better, we all deserve better.

[@jolleyk13]

What podcast were you listen to about friendships?

[@dannelle17]

Centipede guy cheated on CHELSEA?!?! Oh my god oh my GOD, that one won’t leave me soon 😂

[@TheseWhiteNights]

Does anyone have a working link to the events in Financial Diet? Trying to find tickets to the Philadelphia event

[@TH-eb5ro]

Even if a person takes you a nice place on a date we should know about courtesy and common sense. A considerate person would not do such a thing and why would you want to date someone who is inconsiderate.

[@trystongilbert1837]

There is another side to the cleaning thing. I was made, by my mother, to clean a bathroom every weekend even though it was visually spotless, and the tedium of that caused major backlash and I'm rather messy now, despite knowing HOW to clean. I think many women overvalue having a spotless house when they really shouldn't sweat the small stuff.

[@BreeonaNechole]

In defense of oyster lady: she also left more more for tip on her card. Wasn’t a large tip but she did tip. She also expressed that she was going there anyways, she’s known to constantly go to the restaurant and eat all those oysters. I find the situation hilarious personally but I find it interesting. I’m not mad at sis, I haven’t laughed so hard in a long time. Plus the restaurant is packed now bc of her. A Queen.

[@leslievanhouten]

Also, that dude had been blowing up for phone, kept asking her out. This is an excellent way to get a man who won’t take no for an answer and get him to finally leave you alone.

[@ILiketoSayYeehaw]

She spurred the 48 oyster challenge lmao

[@glassycreek1991]

I find coffee dates acceptable if the guy shows up earlier than you to wait for your order to pay. No dutch and no expectations. Also he should be okay with average presentation because we are not going to treat a coffee dates like a dinner date. So don't expect me to shave, style my hair or take off my comfy sweater.

[@dim9753]

CHELSEA! How did your husband transition from his former living habits to now? That is the issue I am facing in my relationship….our cleaning habits do not align in the slightest. I wish it weren’t as important but as much as I am dealing while living apart, I fear it will become a deal breaker over time if we don’t find a good middle ground.

[@stalesunday]

i would say he is the duncan trussell to your joe rogan

[@bebemomolou]

Love Duncan!!

[@ksands3]

I loved this episode, no notes!

[@cubone44]

I love your video content but really wish these podcasts had a bit more planning behind them. It’s feels 6 minutes of great content followed by 10 minutes of “my husbands roommates beard hair got in my soup one time on sunny slightly westerly wind breezy day in a basement apartment, may not have been a legal basement apartment, in the month of April during my 3rd time interacting with his dog.”

[@Nandanyx]

Sorry for living under a rock but whatbwas happening 3 week ago?

[@princessbablaschmabladingd7451]

Ryan is so damn funny!!

[@Tictacsizesoul]

Easier not to date at all

[@Anna_win-hou]

Hope you tour in Atlanta! Pretty plz🥲🥲

[@abigaelbalbuena1917]

KZbin recommended this, probably based on the headline. I personally found it vapid and bereft on any major substance. Will tune in the future to see if that's changed. Thank you for all the content creation work.

[@RextheRebel]

This might be one of the most braindead videos I've ever watched.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes😊😊😊

[@jacobcoolguy]

"not to quote little women, but..."

[@Girasoles]

King 😂🎉

[@LoquaciousPint]

16:16 have a sheet

[@julianarodriguex899]

I am straight and if I'm dining with a man I not paying for it.

[@kateramckay4317]

same

[@BaglessUpright]

The person who asked to take the other out should pay for the date. And last time I checked, the egg doesn't swim to the sperm, so....

[@julianarodriguex899]

@@BaglessUpright last I recall there's like one egg and millions of extra sperm tryna go halvsies

[@pisceanbeauty2503]

37:40 Mayor Pete and his spouse.

[@ingridoomen867]

Population is NOT declining.... where are you getting this information .... in USA and the entire world the population is growing...over 8 billion and growing ...

[@BaglessUpright]

YES! The rate of population growth is slowing, but it's still positive. People really need to learn the difference between *growth* and *rate of growth*. Humans are not going extinct. There are more people born every year than the in the previous year. The population in most countries, all world regions, and across the planet overall are GROWING.

[@obatalaosun2222]

Right. US European descendants are not all having 15 kids a family anymore, and that means that they will not be the majority in the US forever. This scares the shit out some of them. That's what a lot of the talk of "population" decline is really about.

[@henlo313]

Populations are growing, but birth rates are falling worldwide and in many cases are below replacement level, which means that population will start dropping in a couple of decades. Declining birth rates have a delayed effect on total population.

[@WatermelonSugar1209]

It’s declining in the west, China, Japan, Korea

[@BaglessUpright]

@@henlo313Birth rates are below replacement in a minority of countries. Not actually that many.

[@lonelydogclub]

If you read the comments , you will understand why marriages are failing.......

[@LadyDioRee]

26:10

[@shelleymaclean3181]

nonbinary term for niece/nephew = "nibling," but you could also use that as a plural. 2 nieces + 3 nephews = "I have 5 niblings" even if they are all cis.

[@tedtalksrock]

Pretty sure “nibling” is a type of corn…

[@Lastings]

sibling's non binary kids -- nibling

[@masharoma]

Why the guest does not answer the questions only talking about herself

[@jy_hawk]

I cringe at the use of emotional labor in any context unless you honestly believe a person is a sociopath

[@saltycrunch]

word salad

[@dynamichunter843]

Would be nice to hear a cishet man’s perspective on being expected to pay for everything and that being the cultural norm. I’m personally sick of it, women bash the patriarchy and want to abolish gender roles, yet when it’s time to pay suddenly they like traditional gender roles and treat men like wallets. It’s a huge financial burden on men dating. So men have to be careful who they take out and date, then you have women who go out on 3 dates a week with fandoms just for free dinners.

[@Seancarter2010]

Amen brother. The irritating thing about this conversation is it erases those most affected by dating financially and this is a financial podcast. Why would she bring on a gay man who doesn’t have anywhere the same financial expectation placed on him when dating. Smh

[@LadyNightsong]

We shouldn't group people all into one category, men or women. Not all women expect men to pay not all women bash the patriarchy or whatever. I think as long as both people are honest upfront, there's no problem with it if a man doesn't want to pay for a date.

[@marla79]

It matters if that couple plans to have children. A woman takes a major hit to her career and finances once she becomes a mother so dating a man who can afford to date is a tell as to whether or not he’d be a good provider.

[@ifetayodavidson-cade5613]

There are reasons why women seek a man who earns more: 1) Dads are more likely to get a boost (raises, etc) to their career, but Moms are seen as not devoted to their job = the motherhood penalty at work. 2) Women want to be the only one you are dating, so asking men to pay reduces the number of other women they can date. 3) Men who earn less are more likely to sabotage, abuse, and cheat on their female partner, all while she works outside the home and she runs herself ragged trying to make him feel manly. 4) Men who earn less often don't make up for it by handling more errands, chores, childrearing, household management, etc.

[@elenakalliste]

If the man makes more money (which, on a population level he does) then expecting him to pay at least for himself and maybe for another person is pretty reasonable. But on a first date, there is also the idea that the person who asked for the date should be paying. Which, statistically again, is going to be the man or masc presenting person. It’s not about being a man in a vacuum, but about having more money and resources and less at risk in dating.

[@kendalljohnson9172]

painting a gay couple who want kids and monogamy as trying to "prove something" is beyond demeaning, incorrect, baseless, uneducated, rude, uninformed, and frankly homophobic. Not the kind of discourse I expected to see coming out of this channel.

[@kendalljohnson9172]

being non-monogamous doesn't make you "more queer", "more gay", "more liberated" or in any way superior, as much as some of us would like to believe 😂😂😂

[@pyranomics7229]

You guys are sooooo out of touch, it's kind of infuriating. Admittedly I'm not the target audience (I'm an out gay man but more likely to be friends with Joe Rogan than Ryan) and i will find myself disagree with a lot of Chelsea's takes but this one is on a whole new level and Ryan is strangely provincial. And if course, y'all are saying blatantly untrue, out of touch things that are so far removed from my own experiences as well as what I see in day to day life about people 30 and younger. (I'm in my early 30s) Considering giving this one a skip and I'm only like 20 minutes in.

[@lar7849]

Queer community loopool😂