We need to talk about Ranger - D&D 2024 Player's Handbook

[@PackTactics]

7:00 Update: What I said isn't wrong and neither is the math. What I should have mentioned is this is assuming you're going for great weapon master at level 12 and that requires 13 Str. Then from there you pick up a heavy crossbow. If you actually have 16 wisdom then Conjure animals is not a trap for Rangers. Sorry guys. I was kind of in the moment.

[@JonnumeN]

Just out of curiosity, did you have a multiclass in mind with the 13 Wis, as I don't see why you'd not want at least a 14 Wis as a regular ranger?

[@XanderHarris1023]

Aren't all of the summon spells based on your Wisdom now or I'm thinking of something else? Interesting that you brought up Find Familiar as a potential Ranger focus and didn't mention the summon spells once.

[@life-destiny1196]

I'm not certain about the math either, tbh--specifically with respect to the chance of a given creature making the saving throw. Save-for-half is a significant DPR increase, but how much so is gonna vary based on the saves of the thing you're fighting. I had typed up some math here but then continued watching the video and realized you were already covering it. (BTW, I happen to be pursuing a line of education right now that requires statistics--so thanks to you and the rest of the D&D community for giving me a head start on probability theory!) A ranger with 14 Wis at level 9 (when you'd get Conjure Animals; this is an extremely reasonable amount of Wis for a Ranger to invest in IMO, with the bad capstone you want to have 13 for multiclassing anyway and getting one more is easy) is going to have a save DC of 8 + PB + WIS = 14. For a creature to pass that save 60% of the time, it'd need a +5 DEX (allowing it to roll a 9 and meet your DC). I don't have the MM handy or anything, but that feels like an estimate that's off a little bit, covering creatures that might have 20 DEX, proficiency in the saving throw, or some other effect improving their chances. That will be some things you fight, but I doubt the mean is that high--especially in the target-rich encounters that would justify an AOE spell in the first place. You're welcome to tell me I'm wrong, or that your table is different, just calling it as I see it. If we assume a 50% save rate (either slightly less resilient targets or a bigger save DC), that expected 16.5 damage from 3d10 is worth 8.25 DPR; save-for-half would increase it by 4.125, or in other words it'd be a 50% increase, or one-third of the total damage of the spell depending on how you wanna look at it. That's still significant, but the 13 WIS you're suggesting does seem like exaggerating your case. -- Obviously, that's way weaker than old Conjure Animals, but that spell was such an outlier that it seems a little unfair as a point of comparison. I do agree Conjure Barrage is likely better now, unless it's one of those encounters where the enemies are very spread out or don't enter combat all at once (high upfront damage is more valuable, I know that's preaching to the choir here). I'd also caution you to look at other routes for weapon optimization, including multiclass dips (which is just indicative of the lackluster capstone, fair enough). GWM no longer excludes ranged weapons, so that's a possible DPR source for crossbow rangers--probably over Crossbow Expert, since most of the value from that is in adding some stats to your offhand attack, which you won't be making with a heavy crossbow or longbow. That does suggest some possibility of switch hitting with a polearm or 2d6 weapon, but that would require some Strength investment which may not be worth it (unless you go full Strength Ranger, which I don't know that I'd put stock in, but might be fun to try to optimize). Melee rangers can take advantage of Shillelagh to reduce their Dexterity reliance, and/or they have the opportunity to dip Monk for an easy source of bonus action attacks. Obviously that involves being in melee, so you probably want War Caster early. And weapon mastery is also a huge elephant in this room, enabling battlefield control and/or possible DPR increases like Vex or Nick. tl;dr It really does sound like the argument here is not "Ranger is bad" (on which I'm reserving judgment) and more "trying to do 2014 Ranger in 2024 is bad" (which seems likely if your idea of 2014 Ranger is spamming SS/XBE attacks while concentrating on Conjure Animals, as all of those things are nerfed).

[@life-destiny1196]

Wow, people said a lot of stuff in the time it took me to get my thoughts in order :P

[@drillmoe]

my honest opinon what they should do with ranger just give companion pet part their base kit scales with them. have subclasses change what creature is help them depending on subclass. when i think ranger i think of pet. i know older editions that what ranger was

[@BeanzimusPrime]

Ranger in 2024 is like if I put my diesel car in to the shop and asked for it to run on petrol, then they spent 10 years working on it, tightened the handbrake up, polished the dash, sent me a video of it describing how much of a glow up it’s had, and then returned it a little shinier with a note that says “if u put petrol in it it’s technically a petrol engine :)” and threw their phone in the ocean so they couldn’t be chased up.

[@DEMONITION1723]

That is a unique way of putting it. But yes. 100%

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

@@BeanzimusPrime with how much spells have become part of the class it fells more like they converted it to bio-fuel with a note "Trust Us, Bro"

[@samuelbroad11]

hey I was at the beach and found a phone, maybe it's the mechanics, give it a bell.

[@hah-vj7hc]

That is so dumm tho. They coulda blocked you like a normal person would

[@AdellRedwinters]

Ranger getting features completely dedicated to using one spell, features that are doing nothing if you are not casting that spell, is incredibly Feels Bad. Hunters Mark, if it’s gonna be the core feature of the class, should not be overlapping its mechanics with spells and concentration (and preferably not overlapping with BA economy)

[@AdellRedwinters]

IF ONLY WE HAD A PLAYTEST FOR THIS HMMMMMMMM

[@solowolf7418]

@@AdellRedwinters It had to be done this way to prevent multiclass dips from using ranger for damage with no concentration restriction. Blame optimizers for hunter’s mark needing concentration :)

[@purplebunz]

It's like they saw pf2e ranger, didn't understand the point of that class, and said "oh yeah, I can do that.*

[@Damini368]

@@solowolf7418So move hunter's mark further up the Ranger level tree then? Prevent people from one level dipping but enable people actually looking to use the class feature as intended from being dragged down. If instead of giving hunter's mark to the base class you give it to all of the branch classes, then you have to invest at least three levels into Ranger. Alternatively, you could add a stipulation to Hunter's Mark and other spells like Hex that they don't play nice with each other and overwrite if both are applied to the same target. This would have an added effect of forcing parties with Warlocks and Rangers to diversify attacks slightly to get the extra damage without overlapping effects.

[@solowolf7418]

@@Damini368 Sorry dude you have to get used to Hunter’s Mark remaining concentration. There are many juicy spells that I would prefer to not have concentration. Even Spiritual Weapon has it now. Why should rangers be special? Why should anyone doing a small 3 level dip gain that much power?

[@Jasta85]

2024 Ranger is an overall improvement over the previous version, but it feels like you get punished for not using hunters mark if you go full ranger, which railroads your build in a specific direction (not using any other concentration spells or any features that would use bonus actions regularly). It feels inflexible, which makes me unexcited to play the class.

[@tuxxle8830]

If by previous version you mean the 2014 version, but compared to the Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything Ranger they just made it again with less features and worse spells, but knowing more spells to “make up for it”. It doesn’t make up for it, and it ruins the flavor of the class, too.

[@nicholassteele1367]

@@tuxxle8830 Agreed. Between the features they removed or nerfed and the features they added, it's kind of a wash. But considering that all the other classes got massive boosts, this really hurts. People keep comparing it to the old Ranger, but they should compare it to the other classes in the new version, and when you do that it is very clear that the ranger got screwed.

[@TyphosTheD]

They clearly pulled much of the fantasy power out of the 2014/Tasha's Ranger in favor of putting more emphasis on its spells, between spell changes, earlier spell access, free Hunter's Marks + HM Synergy on subclass features, cross-day spell swapping for more flexibility in taking on different encounters, and Masteries to help with the day to day weapon attacks. But the exploration and Rangery features that remain are either unchanged from Tasha's or just strictly inferior to the kind of fantasy power level of 2014 Ranger.

[@Thomas-zt7dm]

Ya it feels wrong to take more than 5 levels in ranger. Depending on what you multiclass with too you really don’t even need 5 levels in ranger. I feel like the could’ve kept the focus on hunters mark had they made the abilities around it more engaging and just generally better. Alternatively they could’ve made better ranger focused abilities for the main class and saved the hunters mark stuff for a subclass. It would still feel like a cop out but they could’ve just chosen a spell that each ranger subclass gets a number of free casts a day that gets scaling abilities. Like beastmaster gets find familiar, hunter gets hunter’s mark, gloomstalker gets… I dunno like invisibility or something lol. Still feels kinda bad especially since each of those spells has a massively different effect on the game(ie find familiar is WAY better than HM).

[@theodoreharrold9875]

Honestly, looking at the new stuff in 2024, I'd rather play everything 2014 but steal weapon masteries

[@epsilonfallen5830]

I agree that the new Ranger is playable. You can still create a character that does okay damage, since you get a Fighting Style, Weapon Mastery and Extra Attack, but beyond that you get very little. The only other features that I like are expertise and the swim and climb speed along with the movement speed increase at level 6, because it feels in character for the class. Everything else feels too weak, you get it too late and/or it relys on Hunter's Mark, which still has the same problems it did 10 years ago. There is nothing here that feels uniquely "Ranger", so the class still lacks identity. Every other martial gets iconic features like Rage, Sneak Attack, Smite, Flurry of Blows, and Action Surge. Spell are nice of course, but if you multiclass after level 6 into druid, you still get 4th level spells at character level 13, just like with the single class ranger, but you have way more spellslots and other classes have better support for weapon attacks, so there still isn't a reason to play a single class ranger outside of subclasses. It's just sad to see that my favorite class in fantasy RPGs is now the one I'm the least exited to play in DnD.

[@tuxxle8830]

Yeah this is why Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything Ranger needs to still be universally used. Ranger’s my favorite class too, and I love how evocative all the features you mentioned are as well. Favored Foe was kinda the iconic ranger feature but instead of buffing it to not require concentration right out the gate, they got rid of it. Another thing I love about rangers is playing arcane warriors since subclasses like horizon walker feel a bit more like a wizard fighter mix than a Druid fighter mix. The 2024 content doesn’t support that nearly as much, and yet with all this 2024 Ranger nerfing burying how good the Tasha’s Ranger is, they decided to buff clerics to the point where they’re basically strictly better Rangers using only 2024 content which sucks.

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

I wouldn't consider Action Surge iconic. Fighters very much have a similar problem Rangers do, in my opinion.

[@arena_sniper7869]

@@epsilonfallen5830 If you want to check out other systems look at Pathfinder 2e’s Ranger.

[@randydettmer1159]

@@arena_sniper7869 I would agree. I have only played a few sessions in Pathfinder 2e but, their version of a Ranger is just superior to the D&D 2024 version.

[@Shalakor]

@@tuxxle8830 Ya know, since the 2024 feature has the exact same name as the 2014 Favored Enemy, any group playing with backward compatibility can still use the Favor Foe replacement option. Technically totally RAW. The bonus action economy conflict of Hunters Mark is honestly the worst part anyway, so it'd be worth it (except for playing 2024 Hunter subclass maybe, it kinda makes Hunter's Mark worth using).

[@jasminebryant4238]

I've been screaming at the top of my lungs how good Conjure Barrage is now

[@ph1shstyx]

I'm currently running my ranger with conjure barrage, lightning arrow, and magic weapon as my main spells, thinking about discussing it with my group to have level 1 hunter's mark not require concentration starting at like level 10 or 12 and treat it like a cantrip, which IMO is what it should be if they're wanting to make it the defining characteristic of the class.

[@ODDnanref]

Cool Hunter's mark still feels like a horrible thing to have tacked on top of the class features then. Because it just feels like your main class features are useless. Much like they felt on 2014 ranger. I wonder why this is an issue.

[@gabrielrussell5531]

13:11 "It's been like 10 years, and they still haven't figured this out?" OneD&D summarized in one sentence.

[@jiiaga5017]

A Spell is not a class mechanic. Especially when it conflicts with all of your other actions and limits your usage of other spells. If they want you to use Hunter's Mark as a class feature, then they need to flesh it out. Look at other spells and abilities, there are easy fixes. Bestow Curse was a spell that as you cast at higher spell levels lasted longer and eventually didn't require concentration - make that part of Hunter's mark. Additionally, why can't Rangers cast it as part of their first attack - then it doesn't stomp on their action economy. And in general, Rangers are also MAD, and feat hungry.

[@bradleywindham4927]

Actually with how good and easy to get Shillelagh is now, its very easy and STRONG to make a ranger that's SAD wisdom. But otherwise I agree with everything you said.

[@woutvanostaden1299]

​@@bradleywindham4927A very strong SAD ranger would be Fae Wanderer with the Ravnica Izzet engineer background.

[@jiiaga5017]

@@bradleywindham4927 To some degree yes, but a lot of ranger abilities and spells are ranged weapon focused, so being melee focused is going to make you SAD while being SAD, at times.

[@bradleywindham4927]

@@jiiaga5017 there's a couple spells (the arrow spells mostly) but its not really a big deal. The choice between melee or ranged for ranger is now an actual choice between damage or tactical advantage rather than it being no choice at all. I just wish they had a better option for SAD ranged attacks cuz Magic Stone isn't really cutting it...

[@plannedtuna8293]

@@jiiaga5017 Conjure Barrage and Volley now work with melee weapons. The only ranged exclusive spells are Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow, and Swift Quiver (which is still bad). Melee exclusive spells are Ensnaring Strike and Steel Wind Strike. As for “abilities” I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

[@sethmays8309]

Hunter's mark has become Hexblade's curse(lvl 14) but with more uses and requiring concentration.

[@ehd.f4269]

Reverting the no concentration rule for HM was a huge mistake.

[@egg_l0rd13]

12:15 Man, I feel that. I’ve *never* understood why everyone is so obsessed with Hunter’s Mark. In my experience with Ranger I’ve never been drawn to using it nor have I seen other players at my table express even a sliver of interest in using it.

[@outofideas42]

Hstorically, because its a spell unique to the class. Now its a unique spell with 4 class features dedicated to it, including the capstone. Its walking the trodden path. When you explore a new city, you dont find yourself among the social housing /project neighbourhoods, you wander onto the high streets. You nagically find yourself in the centre of town. Thats because the roads are designed to lead you there and you just trust the design instinctively. This is how most people design dnd characters. They understand that bards are supposed to be charismatic and naturally fill their sheet with enchantment spells. They know the ranger is an explorer and hunter, see a unique spell available at 1st level called Hunters Mark, and trust the design. The failure is on wotc in paving those roads, not on casaul players for trusting the design.

[@nathanschubert3048]

That, and class unique spells are normally extra powerful for their level. Clerics get Spirit Guardians, a spell so powerful they can literally cast that and just walk and dodge for the rest of combat and still be one of the highest contributions to the combat. Paladins get Find Greater Steed and can summon an "until killed" animal companion Griffin who benefits from every buff spell they cast on themselves and combo's deliciously. (Though Bard can make it downright broken with magical secrets shenanigans) Repeat for the rest of the casters. The rule is that unique class spells are extra powerful, and Hunter's Mark is the exception to that rule.

[@GlacialScion]

One of the funniest aspects of this for me is that the character currently most associated with rangers in DnD was constantly forgetting to cast Hunter's Mark at all, and that was in a homebrew campaign with numerous buffs and additions to Hunter's Mark's usability. I mean, Vex was a Beast Master Ranger that completely stopped using her beast. Mechanically, almost everything she ended up doing that was interesting came from homebrew magic items or her multiclass. HOW did that not warrant a more significant redesign, even if just catering to popular conscience?

[@aralornwolf3140]

@@GlacialScion, I thought Drzzt was the character most associated with DnD rangers...

[@GlacialScion]

@@aralornwolf3140 That's mostly going to be for people who were familiar with DnD more than 5 or so years ago. Nowadays, the majority of players are newer to the hobby, many of them introduced by Critical Role directly, and they're much less familiar with the historic DnD characters.

[@CivilWarMan]

The new Ranger and new Paladin have a very similar problem, as the two primary half casters. As you get into higher tiers, the class design for Paladin and Ranger seem to rely more on spell progression to entice players to stay with the class rather than additional features. Except you can get better spell progression and additional class features in both cases by multiclassing. The strongest Rangers will likely have more levels in Druid or Cleric than Ranger, and the strongest Paladins will have more levels in Bard, Sorcerer, or Warlock than Paladin.

[@nacholord2328]

This is a good observation. The 5e14 versions of Artificer, Paladin, and Ranger had the same problem as well. The best Paladin builds took 6-7 levels of Paladin, 2-3 levels of Warlock, and any remaining levels went into Sorcerer. One of the best Artificer builds was Artillerist 6 / Chronurgy Wizard 14. Ranger was the best of these classes going straight classed but even then it would fall off at higher levels. Ranger 5 / DSS 1 / Cleric or Druid 14 was better, and Flagship Ranger was another alternative because of just how strong Pass without Trace is.

[@Shalakor]

@@nacholord2328 I'm trying to figure or what DSS stands for? Man, I hate seeing acronyms out in the wild. Can be useful for articles where a lengthy term is going to be repeated a lot and there's a mention of what term is being abbreviated at the start, but so hard to know the context when it's just a random one-off with no explanation.

[@nacholord2328]

​@@ShalakorDSS is Divine Soul Sorcerer. Also sorry about the acronym. I'm trying to use less in KZbin comments.

[@Shalakor]

@@nacholord2328 I guess you'd choose Law or Neutrality, since you couldn't afford to have a very high Cha stat? So, understandable why Iwasn't thinking about Cha classes. Honestly feels like the minimum multiclassing MADness would make it not worth dipping into when you already want Dex, Con, and Wis to be good, and maybe Str minimum too if you're picking up Heavy Armor from Cleric. Sounds Abserd. 🤪

[@nacholord2328]

Use medium armor. Point buy can be something like 9 / 14 (+2) / 14 / 8 / 14 / 13. You always go law because of Bless.

[@fluffyderp7778]

Kobold new video yayyy, it's ranger Kobold time ^^

[@brettonalwood4173]

Ever since they revealed the new ranger this has been my most looked forward video.

[@sistershisuta6544]

“It’s hard to talk about Ranger without a basic skeleton” Speaking of things that Warlock just got…

[@judemiller]

They should've rebuilt Hunter's Mark from the ground up into a proper class feature like Rage or Metamagic or Aura of Protection, instead of leaving it a spell that people don't want to use.

[@Mournfall_]

hm, a Rage-Style thing like "Hunter's Focus" as a name could be interesting, buffing yourself and debuffing targets (keeping some of HM but removing Conc. and the use of your BA maybe), and different subclasses changing what that looks like, even. Ideas, ideas.

[@sock4118]

I really wouldnt have expected them to when they literally changed class features like divine smite into spells

[@PackTactics]

Check out my Patreon if you want to support me directly & get early videos! www.patreon.com/Packtactics?f.. Thank you for watching my videos! It means a lot to me.

[@shadow11636]

How much do i need to donate for a lancer video xD

[@LoreFoundry]

If you're talking ghost lance, I'd be interested in seeing how it compares. If you're talking mounted combat with a lance, I'm here for it.

[@snakeinabox7220]

​@@LoreFoundryor the Ttrpg lancer. BIG mecha fighting in space. Fun from what ice seen

[@gaidencastro9706]

Exploration is really unexplored in D&D. Because the only class that revolves around exploration sucks DPR-wise and exploration isn't nearly as fleshed out as combat, players actually exploring is more of a meme than an essential part of gameplay. That feels wrong.

[@kevlar427]

Exploration is unEXPLORED you say???

[@erikburzinski8248]

And they have ablitys that make them bad at exploring

[@andrecosta8680]

​@@erikburzinski8248abilities that make them bad?

[@erikburzinski8248]

@andrecosta8680 they can't leave there preferred train or they are debuffed making there only good role in a party as city protectors against a specific enemy

[@zippy312]

In my first campaign we had a gloom stalker who got the highest damage in a round out of everyone but the enemy was immune to non-magical damage weapon so he felt bad and g Ave it to him.He never had a great round like that again and hasn't played one since.

[@kingdragoonmk10]

My Fix for Ranger 2.0 ... Ranger should be able to treat Hunters Mark like the new Revenge Paladins Vow of Enmity 1. can be cast as part of the Attack action 2. Can be moved on targets death & 3. *DOESN'T* *REQUIRE* *CONCENTRATION* !!! 4. Change level 13 feature to prevent loss of concentration on any Ranger spell from damage (or allow advantage or the reroll of a Concentration save roll if you feel thats over powered) AND WALLA the Class operates smoothly in combat, allows for strategic play without feeling penalized for wanting to use Non Hunter's Mark related spells , and your free uses let you still cast a leveled spell on the same turn a couple times per long rest.

[@matedervarics9827]

5. Profit Anyway, I like your solution(s)

[@kingdragoonmk10]

@@matedervarics9827 Seemed like the best solution based on a fellow martial caster, not outright boosting damage, but instead with a focus on quality of life and ease of use.

[@PsyrenXY]

All Rangers getting improved Chainlock-style Fey and Beast familiar companions as their main feature is actually an interesting idea. I could be on board with that.

[@derrickhaggard]

Same especially since it seems like Fey Wanderer is the new popular subclass for Ranger and one of the spells a Fey Wanderer Ranger gets later on that's a subclass spell is Summon Fey.

[@Red13aron]

A Shillelagh Beastmaster Ranger feels good to me. Your DCs are high which enables Ensnaring Strike granting your Animal Companion advantage and enemies disadvantage on Dex Saves setting up your Conjure Barrage/Volley. Plus you can pair it with Dueling for even higher damage, and freeing up your bonus action for your pets wis based attacks.

[@LocalMaple]

Level 20 is supposed to be a reward for not multiclassing. And rangers get… a different die on a level 1 non-scaling spell. DMs, here’s a homebrew level 20 feature you can give them. Favored Terrain. Once per long rest, as an Action, you can make a 60’ radius of illusory terrain that lasts for 1 minute. Yourself and allies within gain 3/4 cover, and can Hide as a Bonus Action. Enemies within have disadvantage on rolls to find Hiding allies, can only see through this illusion with Truesight, and any AOEs that involve a Dexterity Save do no damage on a successful save. Once you use this feature in this way, you can expend [highest level spell slot possible] to do so again in the same day, as an Action or a Reaction when the previous use would fade.

[@M9Seradon]

Ignoring the poor wording, why are you naming this after a feature that most Ranger players dread? Call it Hunting Ground, or Hunter's Nest, or something along those lines instead

[@davidkelvon7936]

I feel like all it would take to “fix” hunters mark is to allow it’s transfer as a free action once per turn or allow it to be transferred as part of a bonus action attack.

[@Azktor]

Agree! I think just make Hunters Mark a free transfer. It is much less clunk and works better for most situations

[@nicolaslopes8684]

Who the f wants to concentrate on a lvl 1 spell that doesnt upcast when u can cast spike growth and other better and coller spells​@@Azktor

[@GlacialScion]

I mean, that improves the spell, but it doesn't change the core problem of it competing with other, more exciting spells and features.

[@eliascabbio7598]

Make it move with attacks, scale 1d6 to 1d8 to 1d10 amd remove concentration with level 13 feature

[@blackfang0815]

@@GlacialScion It changes one of the two core problems that we have known about for 10 years. Still needs to cast and concentrate.

[@Aikolon]

I would love to see you talk about Lancer 😎

[@JustMcKenzie]

Was waiting for this pov!

[@chiepah2]

I'm convinced WotC doesn't do math when determining whether a feature is good or not, they just kind of go on feel and print it.

[@nathanschubert3048]

This. The math I've seen in Tabletop builds is amazing, but it's just as clear Wizards didn't do it or 5e would have looked pretty different.

[@life-destiny1196]

coughs in Flex being the strongest weapon mastery granted, the trouble with mathing out this game is you always have to make assumptions, and those assumptions tend to break the moment you end up in an actual encounter. but that one was pretty cringe

[@40Found]

If your target audience is going to judge it based on vibe and do no math, then why bother doing it yourself?

[@chiepah2]

@@life-destiny1196 True, math doesn't replace play testing, it's just another tool to add to your arsenal. When you design a building you have to make some assumptions about the conditions the building will be built in and plan for them, sometimes the plans have to change because you didn't plan for something, but you don't just start building while eyeballing the whole thing just to see what works.

[@chiepah2]

@@40Found Lol, your target audience for buying a house aren't going to be measuring, so why bother measuring things?

[@Zaknyfein]

Great analysis! Thank you so much!

[@alfonsocruz6100]

Prof Kobold: What's Ranger's main job? Me: Exploration!!! Prof Kobold: DPS! :')

[@shadow-faye]

Exploration is barely a factor in the game

[@nathanschubert3048]

Also party stealth tactics with Pass Without Trace constantly up if you do some multiclassing with Hexblade Warlock.

[@tylerthorstrom4100]

With Kobold, DPS is the main role of every class. 😂

[@alfonsocruz6100]

@@shadow-faye That's a fair point, I always felt that 5e doesn't have fun mechanics to deal with exploration, BUT as a player and dm I do my best to make it interesting

[@abethekat]

Ranger bypasses exploration entirely, can't get lost, can't lose tracks, can't starve. It makes what little exploration there is into a pointing at your features game

[@ADirtyLeviathan]

I know much of the community has already said this, but I’m backing it. If I run a 2024 campaign. Hunters mark is no concentration at level 5. Period. Divine favor is con free. Vow of enmity gives advantage with no action required. Ranger deserves this at the very least.

[@angelagranger760]

They can't have a class that's supposed to be a damage dealer outdamage a tank class.

[@ADirtyLeviathan]

@@angelagranger760 no that would make too much sense. Lol

[@joshholmes1372]

Same

[@vincentsolus9227]

if you look as the half damage as the normal damage instead, you can think of fialing the save as they get "crit" for "double damage" half damage on fail is garanted damage, unlike most atacks that depends on actually hitting

[@grenade_37]

Kobold i love your vids thank you very much !

[@Godzillawolf1]

I admit, I'm about to play a Ranger in my party's Eve of Ruin campaign, Fey Wanderer specifically, so my Wisdom is my primary focus, since Wander tends to be more focused on casting, so hearing that the Ranger is now a good blaster due to getting some good spells really does help in that regard. Also help I rolled really well on my stats, so I have both high wisdom and high dex. That said, I admit, everyone talking about how bad the new Ranger is kinda bums me out, given I was looking forwards to playing one and it takes the wind out of my sails a bit.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

I too will be playing a Fey Wanderer (Shillelagh) Ranger in my next campaign. Given how well the 2024 class updates were being received, I was eagerly expecting the same for the 2024 Ranger -- so I share your pain. I already love my little guy and don't want to swap him out now!

[@mythicalthings1796]

Just ask your DMs to let you use Tasha's Ranger.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

@mythicalthings1796 Are you suggesting just the base class features, while still adopting the 2024 subclass, weapon masteries, spells, and other updated rules?

[@michaeldejean3742]

@@mythicalthings1796the Tasha’s Ranger is straight up worse than the 2024 Ranger. Fewer expertises, fewer spells known, no spell preparation, no ritual casting, no weapon mastery.

[@CGCommando82]

Just play the Ranger and have fun, ignore the haters and the commentary from the min/maxers

[@guilha1506]

Using HM without action cost and concentration would fix most of the problems. New ranger was simply poorly designed

[@nacholord2328]

Reddit would call it overpowered and WotC """balances""" the game based off what Reddit says 😂

[@robf88]

The issue with ranger is 4th level spells are ALL concentration except freedom of movement. This creates a lot of dead levels at hogh levels

[@bradleywindham4927]

Can't believe no one is talking about Shillelagh Ranger. Its so easy to get, makes your character SAD wisdom, works with Polearm Master and Dueling, and completely changes the conversation on how good ranger spellcasting is

[@kongu12395]

Personally, I don’t like Shillelagh because melee is way more dangerous than ranged combat and rangers don’t really have the AC to last several rounds as a front liner. Plus if you’re SAD wisdom that’s going to mean your AC is potentially even lower than your average ranger.

[@saqwana25]

@@kongu12395 you can use a shield and med armour your ac will be fine

[@bradleywindham4927]

@@kongu12395 not really. Take a +2 dex mod, wear half plate, use a shield, and you've got 19 AC. If you're really worried about HP, you can also play a dwarf and take the tough feat for your origin feat. You lose out on a good deal of damage that way but it works if you're that concerned about survivability. Also Shillelagh did get buffed slightly in the new rules. Moral of the story though, if you actually want to be a good damage dealer with a ranger, you kinda gotta go Shillelagh or Dual Wieldier. The days of truly great ranged damage are over (which I would say is a fine price to pay for the tactical advantage that ranged attacks give).

[@floofzykitty5072]

​@@saqwana25 it doesn't scale that well later. Level 8 is a very reasonable place to expect a campaign to go to and that's when monsters suddenly have +7 to hit going by CR because for some reason it doesn't really scale linearly.

[@PFirefly06]

​@@kongu12395AC would Be lower? Lol no. Dex doesn't Become a dump stat, and medium armor only let you add 2 anyways. So now you only need 14 dex and can boost con as a secondary to wisdom. Thats what SAD wisdom does, not whatever you're thinking lol.

[@lucasreis195]

I have already homebrewed the new Ranger. Added some features from TCE back, turned Hunter’s Mark into a class feature that scales, not requiring concentration by level 6 and doesn’t require your bonus action to be transferred (it’s part of the attack, just like what WOTC did to the Oath of Redemption’s channel divinity). Also, I advanced some of the high level features to lower levels, since most of them weren’t appropriate for such advanced level of play, and gave the Ranger a new capstone, allowing them to mark more than a single creature with Hunter’s Mark, increased its damage and damage die.

[@Gale_789]

I’m also making a homebrew Ranger. I did not think of making the transferring of Hunter’s Mark a free action. But now that I’ve seen you and other people talking about that I’m gonna do it. Also I’m giving them the ability to mark multiple creatures simultaneously at level 8, it scales with your perception skill modifier. And I’m letting my Rangers get expertise is perception if they make certain choices during character creation. Do you think that that is too powerful? I’m asking because you’re making that their capstone. Also I’d like to mention that in my version Hunter’s Mark gives a 1d6 bonus to attack rolls, not damage rolls. Edit: I’m making the number of creatures that you can mark simultaneously scale with your proficiency modifier now. I think that this is simpler.

[@penndragyn3728]

I should take notes, might homebrew my own ranger based on 5e and 2024. Gonna have to study some other suggestions and see what fits, but you guys are onto something. Should have actual GMs and players and people who care about the game touch up 6e. XD

[@margaretmyklebust2577]

Great video Kobold and you too Gator.

[@ngbrother]

When you talk about 2024 Ranger next, I'd love you to speak more about the potential upgrades for melee ranger builds - particularly a quarterstaff (because of topple) and shield Ranger + Druid (for Shillelagh)

[@Iced_Tristan]

I was pleading to Jeremy Crawford through my screen for the Ranger to get another pass in the UA, I really don’t understand why they pushed this version out which was unlike the previous versions without feedback. The Druid and Barbarian got so many passes yet this version of the Ranger didn’t, I’m just so baffled as to why they didn’t want to put it into UA… 😕

[@waltercosta2067]

I think they know it would've been received poorly, so they just skipped it, they basically did two UA for ranger and ignored all the feedback they received and published a third version that only they had seen

[@woutvanostaden1299]

Finally someone with an honest take I can relate to. As I think that some of the others that have talked about the rangers viability. (Like d4, treantmonk, dungeon dudes to some degree) I have found them to not be specific enough in why new ranger feels bad, but you put it very well in "the floor has been raised and the ceiling has been lowered". I also quite like that you give a clear analysis on where the things are going to feel *not great* and where your *strengths* lie.

[@bunbunkitten]

Much as I loathe Hunter's Mark, a Ranger could attack+Nick, while still having a bonus action available to cast HM, and without spending feats on their fighting style. Other dualwielders would feel straight-jacketed into picking Dual-Wielder at lv4... which would admittedly be better in the long run, but you could always pick it up then. That is still a niche if you want more freedom.

[@EricWalkerswildride]

Yeah, the max damage on the nick is a huge force multiplier... He'll play and change his mind eventually.

[@federicoghezzi1261]

Please do Lancer I beg you, all the videos about it on youtube are on the lore. I need to see character builds and strategies used in play.

[@punished-persona]

Hunter's Mark is good tier 1 and early tier 2. With Hunters Mark and Two Weapon Fighting (no dual wielder feat), Ranger using Scimitar and Short Sword with Hunter's Mark will out damage any martial during this period (Thief Rogue Spell Scroll spam excluded). With the free casts of Hunter's Mark they don't need to worry about dropping it from losing concentration either. They still get Good Berry and Pass Without Trace for utility. The Ranger's problem is late tier 2 and tier 3 because their only useful new spell is Conjure Barrage. Ranger is only outright bad at tier 3 and 4 but that seems to apply to any non pure casters.

[@eliascabbio7598]

Playtests categorized Rangers as an expert class, it should be good at skills, traveling, tracking and exploration, they shouldn't be massive damage dealer.

[@nacholord2328]

Skills, traveling, tracking, and exploration have never been a significant part of 5e.

[@eliascabbio7598]

@@nacholord2328 Yeah, but I think it's both players and manuals fault. The rules manage very badly traveling and exploration rules, but also many tables play d&d like a videogame, focusing on combat only.

[@nacholord2328]

DnD is a system made for combat. Exploration, travel, and tracking just aren't interesting in a system where they barely exist unless you mix combat into those things. I don't see how focusing on combat makes the game videogamey. I'm sure there are also other systems that make exploration a big part of the game, but DnD just doesn't.

[@eliascabbio7598]

@@nacholord2328combat, exploration and interaction are the 3 main pillars of the game, there are tables that barely play any fight in a day, the game works well also outside combat. If you just play the game with skills and attack rolls, it's just an hack and slash video game in a dungeon

[@kuraishinobi]

Great video as usual, but I have to say that I'm looking forward to more of your "Worlds Without Number" videos.

[@PackTactics]

I have a script done. I just haven't recorded it yet.

[@kuraishinobi]

That's awesome, and I'm excited to see it. I know that D&D is your bread and butter, but I truly appreciate your WWN content 😁

[@spiritandsteel]

If they were going to make hunter’s mark a core feature, they should have removed all the obstacles to using it, like they did with vengeance paladin. I wouldn’t mind so many things being devoted to this one stupid spell if the scaling was meaningful and it didn’t make other options unusable. My quick and dirty thoughts on fixing, if you want to keep the hunters mark theme. Not certain where these should go in progression, but they should definitely start getting these upgrades early on and have them continue as they progress. 1: make it cast for the ranger as part of an attack action OR make moving the mark a free action 1/turn 2: remove concentration, either off the bat or somewhere in tier 1 3: scale the damage before lvl 20, please. Wtf. You can also add an ability that gives a flat increase to damage of hunter’s mark based on ability score (wis?) or ranger lvl. 4: somewhere in there, give the ranger advantage on all rolls against the marked target. ( perhaps at later levels, include ability checks and saving throws from the target as well) 5: at higher levels, allow the ranger to share that advantage with ally’s attack rolls vs the marked target Now it’s an ability that is powerful, makes the character feel like a focus-fire hunter/scout, and doesn’t get in the way of the other things you might want to do with the class- it’s just a thing you get to do.

[@RangerIV]

Ranger with using daggers with dual wielder, nick, hunter's mark (after 1 round to set it up), and thrown weapon fighting (+2 dmg to thrown weapons), assuming 16 dex at lvl 5, that's (1d4+3+2)x2 from 2 attacks avg 13 then (1d4+2)x2 off-hand attack (1 nick 1 BA dual wielder) avg 9 then 4d6 hunter's mark from 4 attacks avg 14 for a total of 13+9+14=36 damage then x hit chance. Probably slightly less likely to hit as a shortsword/dagger vex/nick combo because no vex, but it lets you fight at range which in inherently safer and has more avg damage by a significant margin. If you also pick up 2 weapon fighting style later it goes up to avg 41 damage. Ranger is now the best carny knife thrower. Fill your pockets with knives.

[@LoudYapper]

With the new rules you can bonus action cast Hunters Mark and the still cast a spell using a spellslot if it has a casting time of an action and doesn't require con. Rangers also can use Great Weapon Master with the Longbow as it now can be applied to any attack weapon attack as ping as the weapon had the Heavy property which a Longbow does. So they are not as bad as you claim.

[@edwardcrow6385]

Okay but can ranger finally get find steed? Idk why the paladin is the only one to get find steed when the image of a ranger riding into battle with a bow is just as iconic and more practical than rushing into melee battle with a horse.

[@PackTactics]

That would be super good! I would kill for that!

[@elivcdxv1852]

​@@PackTactics the pact is sealed.

[@spiritandsteel]

I’d love to see you cover lancer. It’s my favorite ttrpg.

[@Finnssssss]

Great weapon Feat works with Longbows and h-xbows now. Longbow Sharpshooter and great weapon with Hunters mark is pretty decent. Both half feats now too so +2 Dex total If you're looking to dual wield you need to find a way to access level 1 Paladin spells for Divine Favor as, you're going to love this as a Ranger, Favor doesn't require concentration...

[@SarJulem]

Homebrew. Ranger class feature at relevant levels: Upcasting hunters mark targets an additional creature for each level (2 creatures total at level 2) and allows you to automatically change targets without using a bonus action. Upcasting using lvl 3 or higher spell slots removes concentration requirement.

[@Rushbolt43]

There are people who want the Ranger to be strong mechanically and don't really worry about the flavor of the class. Others want the Ranger to have the very strong flavor of a survivalist even if it costs the Ranger some strength mechanically. This 2024 update has the distinction of infuriating them both. Since they are actually two opposite viewpoints you have to really mess it up to make neither side happy.

[@40Found]

They aren't opposite viewpoints, a class is allowed to have good mechanics *and* strong flavor. As a matter of fact I'd say they all should.

[@dustinmiller9094]

Ranger Class Features Fix Level 9: - Add Relentless Hunter here; change language to: “When you cast Hunter’s Mark with a use of Favored Foe, it no longer requires concentration for that casting.” - Keep Expertise Level 13: - Add Precise Hunter here Level 17: - Add new feature, Apex Predator. Language: “The damage dice of your Hunter’s Mark increases to 2d6, rather than 1d6. It also no longer requires a Bonus Action to move the mark to a new creature.” Level 20: - Change Foe Slayer language to: You add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll and damage roll of an attack you make against the creature currently marked by your Hunter’s Mark.

[@bsabruzzo]

What makes no sense to me is Hunter's Mark is the rangers go to resource pool and in other classes their resource pools can be exchanged for something other than what the resource was originally intended. For example wild shape can be used for something other than changing into animals, it can be used for spells or abilities. Channel Divinity can be done the same way, where they are being exchanged for other spells and abilities or even spell slots. The new rage rules and the new options for sneak attack do the same thing, it's a lot like the way metamagic is used for the sorcerer. But Hunter's Mark cannot be exchanged for as many things and it doesn't replenish the way all these other things seem to replenish.

[@danjbundrick]

You should cast Hunters Mark as a part of an attack, and it doesn't require Concentration, except maybe move it to another creature. Wouldn't be a huge change in the rules to do something like that.

[@gammalolman580]

Man, who is that green hatted and green face person with the same name as me? (I should update my pfp here...) Even if new Ranger isn't the absolute worst still, this bad design hurts its reputation even more! I hope that we don't have to wait 5 years for people to learn to not underestimate the Ranger just because of bad decisions. Especially hope that people won't hyper focus on Hunter's Mark, altho i fear it won't happen...

[@xZandrem]

8:23 SPIRIT GUARDIANS MENTIONED 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥 WHAT IS A BAD LV.3 SPELL 🗣🗣🔥🔥

[@ryanwells137]

I never understand why people like hunter's mark. It's so flavorless and its effect is underwhelming even in comparison to other 1st level spells

[@TyphosTheD]

To be fair, if you throw it out and land 4 hits before dropping it/losing concentration then it'll be dishing out more damage than any 1st level spell. 8 attacks (4 each against two creatures) and now you're at a 2 target Fireball where both creatures save. But ultimately it's a very situationally valuable spell that REQUIRES you optimize its use to really get the value out of it, which kind of undermines all of the other cool spells Rangers get.

[@drakkonusfrostburn4038]

I have to admit that Find Familiar does sound like a great feature or spell for Rangers.

[@sw4ahl]

Ranger with short sword and scimitar with two weapon fighting and dual wielding is a sapient blender attacking four times with one attack action.

[@michaeldejean3742]

The main problem every one of these videos seems to have is assuming that the exact same builds that were the best in 2014 5e will still be the best. Why would you assume a dual wielding hand crossbow build is still the best choice when sharpshooter is so different? A dual wielding Ranger with dual Wielder and defensive duelist is a fucking menace

[@arcanerecovery2567]

I agree 100%!

[@viniciusg.5519]

0:59 "Here, you can pinpoint exactly when his ❤️ breaks"

[@_mosscat]

What about a two weapon fighting+nick or longbow+GWM build? The problems with flavour and spells still persist but from my back of the napkin calculations it should deal more dpr than hand crossbows while keeping a free bonus action for moving hunter's mark. I don't have all the rules yet of course so I'd love to hear your thoughts

[@guardiantree8879]

GMW requires a 13 in strength unless you homebrew otherwise. (Which you probably should considering long bow & heavy cross bow uses Dex).

[@arena_sniper7869]

2024 PHB was kind of doomed from the start when Jermey Crawford said Rouges don’t need all of that dice sometimes referring to Sneak Attack damage.

[@nacholord2328]

DnD as a whole was doomed ever since people started buying 5e. It showed WotC that actual game balance or good game design is entirely unnecessary to sell their products.

[@penndragyn3728]

Yeah, they really don't care much about balance sometimes it seems. Hopefully 6e has actual thought out into it, but I do like that rogues get some extra things to do for a sneak attack if needed. Problem is it wasn't.

[@arena_sniper7869]

@@penndragyn3728 That comes at the cost of your already struggling damage which sucks.

[@ACE_caliber]

I love rogue sm and they just got so shafted. Poor scaling sneak attack as well as still getting subclass bumps like two levels after everyone else.

[@penndragyn3728]

@@ACE_caliber honestly, I don't really plan to get the new books, and if anything, I'm planning out a "do it better" homebrew for my own table. Gonna take as many notes as I can about the criticisms and main balancing issues while going for a 2024 edition feel. Worst case, I'll just play Pathfinder or gonna an independent tabletop game to play instead.

[@billedens4749]

The ranger is railroaded into Hunter's Mark. What you need to do if you want to run this version of the ranger is to fix hunter's mark. Here is my version of that: Hunter's Mark 1st level divination Casting Time: 1 bonus action Range: 90 feet Components: V Duration: 1 hour You choose a creature you can see within range and mystically mark it as your quarry. Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d4 force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll. You also have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it. If the target drops to 0 hit points before this spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to mark a new creature within range. At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d4 and the duration increases by 6 hours for each slot level above 1st.

[@NightWolf574]

My idea for fixing the issue with hunter's mark is give ranger a pair of new actions that are treated as an attack called Marking Shot and Marking Strike, you make a ranged or melee attack and apply hunter's mark to the target on hit, then it just acts as normal, with the biggest difference for ranger simply being it isn't a spell at all anymore, it's just a basic ability for them. Both actions can be used with no limit, so you just use them again to move the mark.

[@nananamamana3591]

We gonna get that Lancer coverage, Kobold. The almighty *TOM* will be appeased.

[@DoomsdayR3sistance]

WotC totally hit us with Paladin in their left hand and followed through with Ranger in the right and we had not recovered reeling from Paladin before the devastating state of Ranger hit. I don't think anybody should say any class is unplayable, but rather unfulfilling or not as good/fun as it should be and I think both classes suffer from this and for fairly similar reasons. They both push spells in features which are not optimal choices but are there because of the class identity, that being HM for ranger and Divine Smite for Paladin. Additionally, oddly for Paladin the push on Find Steed, which really didn't need a dedicated feature, it was fine without one. So when the classes feel like they are pushing bad or weird choices, they are essentially a trap which increases the skill floor, of playing the classes effectively. Additionally the bad choices are bad, because of their hit on action economy, which is important in D&D. Hunter's Mark is a bonus action almost every turn if your target dies, that is a heavy blow to action economy. For Paladin the bonus action cost of Divine Smite, which was never a thing before is similarly bad, more so when it conflicts with channel divinity options, GWM, PAM, etc. Using Nick weapons, both Ranger and Paladin can mitigate some of that action economy cost but forcing two weapon melee fighting doesn't sound like the greatest solution, rather alternative spell choices work better with these alternative options. We will have to see where Ranger and Paladin end out but highly likely WotC is going to be forced to revise them yet again once the first supplementary book for 2024 comes out. Currently both classes can still work viably but you've got to have a lot more knowledge about the game to achieve that, more so you have to look towards a very optimal set of spell choices. I'd say there is also issues with flavour for both classes but as this is an optimization channel, that is probably irrelevant to any discussion here.

[@XanderHarris1023]

Paladin got concentration free Divine Favor which is essentially a d4 radiant Hunter's Mark that lasts a minute. There is no business putting Paladin and Ranger in the same nerf category.

[@guardiantree8879]

Paladin needed a nerf, they were hit a bit too hard but as a class they still function very well. Ranger mechanically speaking is a mess of a dumpster fire. Technically improved but ultimately weaker compared to the other classes.

[@DoomsdayR3sistance]

​@@XanderHarris1023 I'd say it's too early to be certain which is worse hit, you can bring up Divine Favor but then I can bring up Hunter getting Colossus Slayer or Dread Ambusher on Gloomstalker, adding damage without using a bonus action. Now look at the paladin subclasses, at level 3 everything they add is bonus action or action, except temporary HP for Glory... which isn't damage. This is to say Paladin right now has a huge action economy issue and normally in D&D action economy is considered a major part of optimization and power. Overall there is no point arguing over which is worst hit, as people actually start playing with them, then we will see where consensus really is, for now we just need to highlight that there are two classes in a bad position and for very similar reasons.

[@DoomsdayR3sistance]

​@@guardiantree8879 Paladin's nerf definitely went too far, and I'd say Paladin is a dumpster fire too, but from an action economy standpoint. It's like WotC went "that is a bonus action", "now that is a bonus action" and "that is also a bonus action". It's quiet insane realizing just how many things on Paladin got shifted to bonus action.

[@mythicalthings1796]

​@@guardiantree8879They hit hard cause they're melee. They NEED to hit hard. You can out damage the Paladin and be safe from range with Fighter, Ranger, any spellcaster. Spellcasters can literally shut down an entire fight with one spell and the Paladin does some high damage numbers on a single target and people lose their kinds. Absurd.

[@olivierklein762]

I have been thinking of the new ranger and a hombrew "spores" subclass... Just take the Spores Druid subclass with abilities granted at 1 level difference to match the ranger subclass levels. Level 3 Chill Touch, Level 5 blindness/Deafness, Level 9 Animate Dead, Level 13 Blight, Level 17 Cloukill for bonus spells. And you could use the Symbiotic Entity at level 3 by using your favored enemy free Hunter's Mark spells. It could be cool, still wouldn't be very effective because the ranger is not very effective but i think it would still be better than the original. You could also add the Find Familiar spell at level 3 instead of the cantrip with the new skeleton familiar being thematic and Druids can cast that with their wildshape anyway.

[@GreenGravel]

I have two questions: 1) on early lvl what do we use bonus action on? I thought that light property now allowed us to make additional attack as an action so we can use hunter's mark, no? 2) isn't it like we can still cast hunter's mark with a spell becouse it isn't expending a spell slot? So it bypases 2 spells per turn rule?

[@NexusCrux]

It’s specifically the Nick weapon mastery that allows 2 light weapons to be used during the attack action. Pact Tactics was using Crossbows that have Vex instead so he would have to use their Bonus action for the second attack. However, pick most other weapons and you won’t be having this issue and will free up your Bonus Action. You are correct about Hunters Mark bypassing the new spellcasting rule. Pact Tactics did bring it up but only after getting Conjure Barrage. You can definitely use it at lower levels for stuff like Jump and Longstrider for better positioning then setting up Hunters Mark

[@GreenGravel]

@@NexusCrux thanks! That was very helpful!

[@PandaKnightsFightingDragons]

Waiting patiently for the day you cover Lancer with my digital and physical copies of the core book

[@deKahedron]

A change for the 2024 Ranger that I'm working on for my table is something akin to the Mark mechanic from Darkest Dungeon. Since the ranger has so many features that build on Hunter's Mark, I want to lean into the role of "Main damage dealer vs. priority targets" but expand that out to work with the rest of the party as well as free up the Ranger to use other spells and bonus actions. In short, I'm curating a list of different features and spells from the other classes (basically any debuff that affects a single target or very clearly "highlights" the target) that count as "Mark" for the ranger's features, and changing all of the ranger features that boost hunter's mark to instead give extra effects vs any marked target. These are spells like Hex, Hold Person and Faerie Fire, as well as feature's like the Ancestral Guardian's spirits, certain battlemaster manoeuvres, Stunning Strike, Branding Smite, etc.

[@sortehuse]

The main role of the Ranger in the party is being really cool. If you want to do a lot of damage you can probably do more with another class, but no one is a cool as the Ranger. I think the the Ranger look good, but I don't like the huge focus on Hunters Mark. If cost both your bonus action and your concentration and you will often need at least one of two for something else.

[@burntninja450]

Honestly, they should just bring it back as non-Concentration, but make it once per turn damage, and not make it a spell but a resource. You can have Wis Bonus number of marks active at a time, and can mark any number of creatures at a time whenever you use a Bonus Action to mark targets. Once per turn per target you deal extra damage to marked targets whenever you deal damage to them. Super simple, no concentration, don't have to worry nearly as much about juggling your Bonus Action in Combat, but not overpowered. It can start out as a d4 and upgrade with Ranger levels, that way it's not too powerful with multi-classing, and you can easily add subclass specific upgrades to it as well.

[@matthewrobertson967]

I wish that the thirteenth level Ranger feature allowed you to turn Hunter's Mark into non-concentration as opposed to making it impossible for your concentration to break. That way it would be on a similar level as other features of similar power, (this feature comes in 13th ranger, which is around when GOO Warlocks get to do their Summon Aberration and Fey Rangers get their Summon Fey for non-concentration), and even if the feature was shortened to a minute just as the other features are, it in return would allow Rangers to operate other spells in conjuncture of utilizing their core class feature.

[@jonathansands3304]

Dungeon Dudes overview suggests dual wielding Ranger may look more effective than ranged, and the design team should have given a feature at 6th or so that makes Hunter’s Mark non-concentration to make HM less of a trade off with other spells and incentive to stick with the Ranger class. Love your take, too!

[@PackTactics]

I don't think they considered damage dealt vs damage taken and I take that very seriously so I disagree with the dungeon dudes.

[@WitD2013]

Lancer is SO much fun for optimizers, gunslinging toku/free action empakaai/HMG or heavy laser Everest/ displacer enkidu are all so much fun!

[@nicoium6698]

I think the old ranger with tashas sounds so much more fun. Even if there are still really annoying problems you need homebrew for.

[@diegobessa19]

My favorite Ranger (Wisdom Melee BM) is kinda on top RN with thoses Shillelagh Buffs. But i see your point and i agreed with you. Also, HM dependency sucks =/

[@graveyardshift2100]

4e ranger: I just decapitated 20 goblins 😀

[@PackTactics]

I've played 4e Ranger, they're insanely good!

[@TheCoastalAVENGER]

I think the 13th level feature that "allows hunters mark to never lose concentration" should instead be "Hunters mark no longer requires concentration" this gives mid to late game rangers a nice power spike while allowing them to use their other concentration spells. this allows hunters mark to be a main feature without getting in the way of... every single ranger build lol

[@user-wm3hu7lo1g]

My take: They need to give the base Ranger features that feel actually high-level. My suggestion: make Horizon Walker into the base Ranger. Granting Rangers small benefits to otherwise mundane tasks related to exploration and mundane travel never cut it, not in the context of D&D. Making Rangers into premiere planewalkers would have instantly fixed everything; by making them ACTUALLY useful for the kind of travel you struggle with in high fantasy. The Horizon Walker to me has always felt like a general upgrade rather than some specific niche expert so that's the theme I believe Rangers as a whole should morph toward.

[@user-wm3hu7lo1g]

All the Hunter's Mark features should have been given to the Hunter subclass, and only that subclass. (Hint: the spell isn't called Ranger's Mark!) This would have instantly fixed one main complaint "but what if I don't want to use Hunter's Mark?!"

[@Mournfall_]

What if the Hunter's Mark (probably renamed to just, Ranger's Mark or something) was changed to be a) not concentration from level 5 onwards, and b) could be applied on a successful attack (or even as a free action to free up your BA) - decouple it from the spell in the first place (so maybe it can stack with it) and let the later features actually do a thing without conflicting so heavily with everything else you want to do? (IIRC some of this is how current ranger works, right?)

[@RPGFan253]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks ranger was colossally nerfed in 2024. I completely agree with your opinion of the ranger's role in the party as damager with utility. Thanks for putting together this build to help illustrate the issues. But the 2024 ranger just isn't for me. Actually, since it's my favorite class, the 2024 nerfs have just made me feel sick. I don't agree that the damage floor of the new ranger has been raised. I don't see how the 2024 ranger can touch the damage of a Tosh's ranger with crossbow expert, sharpshooter and elven accuracy. The 2024;ranged builds got nothing to replace the sharpshooter power attack. A slightly improved Conjure Barrage a couple times a day doesn't really add all that much DPR. I do think wood elf warlock with Pass Without Trace would be a better rangef. A ranged Eldritch Knight (4 attacks+GWM) would be a better damager. But they would conflict with my play style of being the paranoid scout with high wisdom and a super high perception. And no druid spells. I've wondered about ranger 5 / druid 15 to exploit the hell out of conjure minor elementals, but I just don't know If it would be any fun to play. Fortunately, my current main DM has no intention of updating to the new rules, so I won't have to stop playing anytime soon

[@BenHameen33]

I've posted this on other videos, but if anyone wants my version of the Ranger, let me know and I'll send a link. It's got flavorful options like in the 2014 version, but with actually mechanically useful features. It's got a non-spell hunter's mark like effect, but it's way more interesting and tactical. It's all in a pretty PDF with pictures too

[@micheltavares4955]

Talk about Lancer. Probably the best system in the last years.

[@KorotasGeckoGamingCorner]

I think instead of having Ranger focus entirely on Hunter's Mark, they should make more spells akin to Hunter's Mark, marks that do different things like apply different buffs or debuffs, maybe could have them apply to specific creature types to invoke what the previous Favored Enemy stuff was trying to do Could maybe have the class ability be a "pool" of marks you can dip into to cast one of these spells without spending a spell slot, instead using a separate tally for them to drain up, I guess it's not too far from what Paladins are now with all their smites (and even they have a *few* smites that can be used at distance, at least in Branding and Banishing Smite)

[@mappybc6097]

2024 shillelagh. Bonus action. 1 min. No concentration. Can be cast on quarterstaff. Use wis for atk/dmg, turns weapon dmg to d8 force dmg. Scales to d10 at lv5, d12 at lv11, and 2d6 at lv17. Did I mention Rangers with the druidic warrior style can pick it at lv2? Make wis yout primary score followed by dex and pick druidic warrior as your fighting style at lv2. Choose shillelagh and any other cantrip you like. From now on, cast it at the start of each fight so that you can use wis for atk/dmg and turn all dmg to force dmg. Note that shillelagh doesn't require concentration or a spell slot, so you could always cast another lv spell you want instead of attacking, including concentration spells. At lv3, choose gloomstalker. You now get to add +d8 psychic dmg 1/turn. Your frighten effects are Wis based, so they'll be more difficult to resist. At lv4 pick polearm master. The description of shillelagh states that all atks made with the weapon use the increased dmg dice. By RAW, both the extra atk with the other end of the quarterstaff and the reaction atk when someone enters your range qualify. At lv5, the build really takes off. Once shillelagh is on, you can atk three times for 1d10+4 dmg and add 1d8 psychic damage plus the frighten effect during the first turn. Another added bonus is that you can choose any target you want, don't have to worry about concentration checkd, and don't have to spend any extra action to transfer shillelagh. 9 rounds should be more than enough to finish any fight. Finally, at lv11 your staff will deal 1d12 and at lv17 it will become 2d6. Damage wise you'll be behind the curve, but you can rely on your spellcasting a lot more and be more effective at it since you'll cap Wis sooner. Oh, and if the fight warrants it, you could always stack hunter's mark on round 2.

[@TheSLATEcleaner]

New Ranger is an incredible dip class now though. It and Paladin are the only 1 level dips that give Weapon Mastery and [now] don't delay spell slot progression if you only dip 1. Ranger doesn't get Lay on Hands or heavy armor, but investment in Wisdom/Dex is better than Strength/Cha and 2 free Hunter's Mark/long is 2 free spells [even if they're kinda mid]. Goodberry isn't as big a deal with the change to life cleric making Greatberry not a thing anymore, but we're likely to see a ton of Ranger 1 dips on spellcasters to pick up Medium Armor/Shields in the new PHB. Late Ranger is bad because it just doesn't get abilities that are commensurate with other martials and the half casters can't compete with the full casters. Early Ranger is great though - Ranger 1 two weapon fighting attacks for 4d6+Dex with just the attack action under Hunter's Mark, 4d6+2Dex if choosing two-weapon fighting at Ranger 2, then you can stay Ranger or multiclass to another martial to get Extra Attack. Ranger 2/Monk 5 for instance gets to 4d8+4d6+4Dex potential under Hunter's Mark without using focus or Ranger 1/Warlock 2/Valor Bard 6 [Pact of the Blade/Agonizing Blast/War Caster Gish] deals 2d10+6d6+3Cha on attack action under Hunter's Mark.

[@cameronhumphreys2309]

If the 2024 Ranger is so focused on Hunter’s Mark it should be changed to an effect that gets applied when you hit an enemy. First shot doesn’t benifit from it but every subsequent attack does. No concentration. If you want a limit on its tracking benefit then the duration could be 2 times your PB hours long so it scales with you. This would make it more useful and encourage the Ranger to focus fire single targets which is what they are best at anyway.

[@gundumpilotx01]

Thanks for getting into the crunchy number stuff Kobold! You didn't disappoint, sadly ranger is meh compared to the other martials Still one of my favorite classes so I say that with a bitter sweet feeling. I don't know why wizards decided to make hunters mark a core feature when it's just an extra d6 of damage , sure on higher levels you can get advantage but there's other spells and weapon masteries that let you do that. I do like to add though there should be special consideration for the Defensive duelist feat, it kinda works like shield and at higher levels it offers an even higher AC boost since it's based on proficiency

[@Malisteen]

I mean, there are certainly ranger builds that the 2024 version works better for. The iconic ranger - if we're talking about D&D specifically and not pulling from outside material - is Drizzt, a dual scimitar guy with a pet panther. 2024 gives duel scimitars the 'nick' mastery, which lets them make their off hand attack as part of the attack action, so it no longer competes for your bonus action with hunter's mark. Between that, the improved beastmaster pet from tashas, and the fact that the nerf to sharpshooter means ranged is no longer just automatically better damage than melee, and suddenly a Drizzt build is looking pretty reasonable. And while it's not a damage thing, being good at certain skills is pretty core to my understanding of the ranger, and 5.24 does that better too. But yeah, while I do like the design of 5.24 ranger better than 5.14, the hunter's mark thing in particular isn't the direction I wanted at all. I feel similarly about the 5.24 paladin - I did not want smites to just be spells. I don't mind the 1/turn limit, but everything else about that change feels wrong. I would much rather have had the other smites reworked into class features more similar to divine smite rather than divine smite being made into a spell.

[@jonathanmathai9269]

2:40 didn’t they roll that BA attack into the main action, or am I misinterpreting the light property, or does it not apply here?

[@xolotltolox7626]

that is the Nick weapon mastery

[@Adurnis]

Yeah that’s not available to ranged weapons, which is part of a larger nerf to ranged options.

[@andrecosta8680]

​@@Adurnisyou can get crossbow master, thou

[@Adurnis]

@@andrecosta8680 Still doesn’t get you an extra attack as part of the Attack action.

[@andrecosta8680]

@@Adurnis you get archery and ranged weapons has its own advantages

[@xiongray]

2024 Ranger is Tasha+. It is good. Ritual Casting, Swap Spells over a Long Rest (rather than Level-up), and more Expertise. TLDR; Ranger's didn't need a massive overhaul because it was already good (via Tasha's & moreso than 2014)

[@nacholord2328]

2024 Ranger is nerfed compared to the 2014 pre-Tashas Ranger. Did you watch the video? Yes, Ritual Casting is nice but that isn't even close to making up for the nerfs.

[@xiongray]

​@nacholord2328 If you mean DPS because you can't use 2014 Sharpshooter, then sure. Everything loses. But you're still able to use 2024 Great Weapon Master with a Longbow or Heavy Crossbow. It's easy easier to scribe Scrolls now (Arcana or Caligrapher's Tool). Ranger's have a good variety of Rituals. I'd pick up Ritual Caster for rituals & overall utility and saving Spell Slots. Quick Ritual Silence to disrupt Spellcasting or cover an area with silence. What are Ranger's nerfs specifically that are actively taken away?

[@bananajoe113]

Curious what kind of monsters we'd have to fight to make new 2024 build not bad. I think we need to see the new 2024 DMG or Monster manual see what what they expect us to do in damage for monsters our CR.

[@Filimaris]

If you're gonna build an entire class around a concentration spell, at least go all the way with it. Build subclass features around it, i.e. Gloom Stalker can hit an enemy marked with HM and the target is frightened on a failed saving throw, or Fey Wanderer teleporting an enemy 30 ft away on a failed save. And for the love of Sylvanus, let it do more damage on an upcast!

[@CalebAtkins]

I was just helping a stranger with their ranger build. He wanted a lot of attacks to make use of Hunters Mark. I eventually realized he should just start with 8 levels of Druid and then dip Ranger.

[@kongoaurius]

5:20 If you are using a heavy crossbow then you have your bonus action avaliable for Hunter's mark and Magic weapon, so your damage will increase. PD: Idk why no one is talking about this but aren't guns avaliable to everyone now? Can I get a musket or pistol or something? Maybe dual wield pistols or use a gun and a hand crossbow?

[@XanderHarris1023]

You need martial weapon proficiency to wield firearms, which Rangers have. You are going to need the dual wielder feat to bonus action attack with a second pistol because they do not have the light property.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

As always, firearms are only available at the discretion of your DM.

[@jeydomo]

For the aesthetic, always loved hunters mark. I just wish they changed it and improved it for this particular class that NEEDS it.