“We panic over money but spend $84K on travel & shopping”

[@ramitsethi]

00:00 Download the Conscious Spending Plan so you can use your money GUILT-FREE: iwt.com/csp-youtube Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.

[@Tammyra10]

Hey. Is there a possibility to be less vague about their careers? I am not asking about all of their information but maybe the title and/or field. I think that it will add more context.

[@Pdobby]

I can’t relate to these people. On one income alone they are still making almost 20k/ month with 11k net. If you can’t live comfortably on that, it’s not a money problem, it’s a you problem.

[@Mav0585]

Especially with no kids

[@richheruk]

They're based in the UK and Maddie's salary alone is 5x the average. It's definitely a them problem! I picked up a few things like 'my gym is very expensive' when, in London, you can walk down the street and find gyms for £20 a month.

[@SwaeTech]

@@richherukThey live in the UK?! That just makes this whole situation 10x as ridiculous.

[@ms.z461]

​@richheruk I wonder what her job is. They make ridiculous amount for a UK average salary.

[@kyleolson9636]

I'm not convinced they have a problem. Unless their investments mostly came from some inheritance, they have been investing about $50k per year since they finished college. That was probably 20-25% of their income. They have 1.5x their combined income (when he is working) in investments, which is 33% over the recommended target at their age. It all comes down to if they're are being realistic about their high expenses right now being a temporary blip. Spending $100k of their investments on a wedding is perfectly fine given their income level and net worth (at such a young age). Being a few thousand in the red each month while he is unemployed is fine too. I was unemployed for a couple months a few years ago and we cut our expenses about 25% but were still a few thousand in the red both of those months. That is what savings are for. While I would advise them to cut spending, at their level of savings I wouldn't advise them to skip a friend's remote wedding or Vegas bachelor party just because he isn't working. The reason to invest and save is so you aren't financially restricted when life throws you curve balls.

[@JosephRea24]

When you’re rich but your friends are richer so then you try to look as rich as they are and then you feel poor.

[@sharamafiz3441]

Exactly

[@mr5811]

"relative poverty"

[@carojames6776]

That's why I look to myself and nobody else.

[@annadavis6361]

Pretty much.

[@jochenkraus7016]

When "keeping up with the Joneses" came up, I thought "You are your own Joneses and don't even notice!". But here we see that more money doesn't solve all problems - or at least it doesn't feel that way for them.

[@StevenEdwardsAudio]

This shit is wild and so frustrating. They were just handed money via inheritance, she’s not even 30 and makes over $200k, they have over $600k net worth… and yet they are complaining because they have lots of other rich friends doing extravagant things constantly and they want to be doing the same. Come down to earth for a moment and realize your privilege and luck and how easy you will have it if you just stop living for others and appearances.

[@saeedhossain6099]

she doesn't think she's privileged, she thinks she's owed the highlife.

[@TheBackwasher]

A friend of mine once told me that rich people don't consider themselves rich. They consider people making 3x what they earn rich. But it's a never ending cycle. Once you're at x3 you aime at former x9

[@taneshabland8686]

@@saeedhossain6099when ur actively working to make money then ur not privileged. Yes she got an inheritance but if it’s 1/4 of the money that means they still save almost $400k based off the job she works daily that’s not privilege that is hard work

[@alexchow9629]

@@taneshabland8686if you make money from your work, your are working class. If you make money from what you own, you are the wealthy class. In between, there’s people who make money from what they know (the lines obviously blur)

[@LinzyLinz7]

He’s only been unemployed for a month and a half. Unemployment happens. There needs to be a plan for when that happens and how long each partner is comfortable carrying the financial load and how they will scale back as a couple during that time.

[@carolyna.869]

I thought they said it was much longer-

[@omotomiuk]

@@carolyna.869same. 6 weeks unemployed and already feeling financial pressure / relying on only one income makes we want to understand more about their situation. I don’t want to be judgemental with this couple so far 7:56

[@ze_ep]

Laughed out loud at that. 1.5 ...... months.

[@jcabslovesu2]

@@carolyna.869 YEP it's only been a month... not very long. She should be willing to cut back and sacrifice especially that her partner quit for his mental being, not bc he is lazy. She is the problem to their finance.

[@Tomakri15]

Rewatching the episode-sounds like him quitting his job wasn’t planned or at least he didn’t tell her he was quitting his job. So there’s resentment from her from him not contributing any money to their current lifestyle. If they had at least planned ahead, maybe she would be less stressed. Another note maybe the dad is a multi-millionaire because he doesn’t try to keep with the joneses and lives below his means. I mean I would be stressed too if I was their dad, spending more money than what they make. Maybe she could take a lesson from her dad. She stresses about 3 dollar things while spends her money recklessly over clothes and travel. They easily could’ve been millionaires by now by investing more money but now they’re forced to take money from their retirement. Hopefully they’ll open their eyes to reality and realize they’ll drain their retirement and inheritance by keeping up with the joneses. She mentions falling into lifestyle creep but they’ve already fallen to lifestyle creep!

[@mirusmundi]

To all y’all in the comments saying how “unrelatable” this is because of their high income and high net worth…LISTEN UP. This episode is you, just making more money. Ramit, Maddie, and Paul just gave you the gift of a crystal ball. Say it with me: how you manage, interact with, and feel about your money does NOT automatically change when you increase your income. Overspend now? Stressed now? If those issues go deeper than “I cannot afford my basic necessities”, THIS IS YOUR FUTURE WITH MORE MONEY. Now go finish the episode, and then say thank you.

[@ramitsethi]

Excellent comment

[@AdultZenfulColoring]

Great explanation of relationship with money... people making less are happy and financially secure. So it's 100% relatable. I have seen low income earners retire early or who will retire a millionaire. They save and invest and live frugally..I doubt they will overspend now even if they are millionaires now even if they probably can afford.

[@aongaaong]

I see a lot of scoffing at how unrelatable it is to not be able to decline expensive trips to Ibiza. I agree...Facing up to peer pressure just requires you to suck it up to admit to your cool friends that you're too broke to join them. I've had to get through these situations a few times myself... Oh, wait. No, I haven't because nobody invited me to Ibiza! So maybe take a step back before judging problems we don't have.

[@Myeyesburnbabyburn]

@@aongaaongyou missed the point of the comment

[@Tsjhn]

⁠​⁠ Maybe you didn’t receive an invitation to Ibiza or don’t have a partner who recently left their job. Maybe their income ranges are worlds apart from you, whether it’s you earning more than them or way less than them. But have you not experienced moments where your friends asked you to go out, have a dinner, a city trip or attending an event that you, in hindsight, couldn’t afford but didn’t want to decline in fear of missing out? Have you joined a hobby or activity with your friends that ended up costing you quite a bit when you weren’t in a financial situation to do so? Many people struggle with the fine line of being frugal (if not cheap) and keeping up with their social network, while they might not (financially) be able to sustain it. Sometimes it really is an art to balance your spendings between the people/things you think are worth paying for and to say no every so often

[@Tlydia]

When the inheritance bomb dropped hahahaaaa I KNEW IT

[@problematicpolarbear6065]

I would feel terrible to spend 150k of the 200k i inherited from my grandparents on a bullshit wedding. Just to maintain appearances. In my view thats the real issue not that someone inherited money.

[@josephlim6854]

Yup @53:59 they are fortunate to have grandparents who gave them over $200k! I can only imagine how much their parents got!

[@brianm1603]

It sounds like she is planning on her parent's inheritance as well. She didn't admit it, but mentioned that they live in a multi-million dollar house. That would explain why she had no real interest in accumulating money.

[@bip5395]

I love how you pick this with a straight face. Like you have your GOTCHA moment. They said it was 25-30%. That means they personally put 400k$ into investments basically before 30.

[@alexchow9629]

⁠@@bip5395nah, they said “about a third”, i.e. $200k. We don’t know when. But $200k invested in the S&P 500 10 years ago would be $500k today. I pick 10 years since that’s when Paul started working. Maybe it was 5 years ago, which would be almost $400k today.

[@ST-wo3uw]

Stop normalizing these insane Instagram lifestyles!! True friends say, "NO, I can't afford it." True friendships and relationships can be enjoyed without having to spend a fortune!

[@fpm8338]

You said it right there, "true friends". They probably don't have true friends.

[@cur244]

Social media is so bad for most peoples finances. It's all about comparing lifestyles.

[@Elena-rt9yu]

Social climbing/networking.

[@TheBackwasher]

​@@fpm8338 I feel this is really american. A friend of mine left for New York 5 years ago and he said recently he can't find people to have a real bond with there like he did with our group of friends here. He makes a ton of money. I don't envy him because having a shit ton of money is not an end goal for me. Worst part is that I'm losing this very friend as well because he's become very moeny focused. He doesn't even realize our lifestyles have nothing in common anymore and sometimes says that we're his only true friends (the old group). When I talk with other member of the old group about it, they feel the same. Sad story.

[@winsonliu1691]

@@cur244as bad as social media is, there’s no one to blame but one’s self. Letting others influence you and determine your livelihood shows how weak people’s values are. Who cares how others live. Things/objects are just temporary. Luxurious experiences lose their appeal after some marginal threshold. As much as the situation they’re in can suck, someone who’s lived with a 10th of what one of them makes will hardly ever have sympathy for them.

[@oshaneb3176]

Her saying if she’s spending 50k on a wedding she’d rather not have a wedding is very telling. After hearing that I’m done

[@hannahmoren4161]

I'm 34 eating pancakes for lunch on the floor of my new (rented) (furniture-less) studio apartment. I don't understand these people.

[@kirstireese391]

Love this comment

[@kimberlyestrada6118]

Pancakes sound so good right now 😂

[@phoenixnmhesq]

Are you happy doing this?

[@rebvanwinkelstein2578]

To cheer you up: Chad from Nickelback started with noodles without butter while selling seafood to customers. Being where you are now doesn t mean that you'll stay in this position forever 🍀

[@hannahmoren4161]

@@kimberlyestrada6118 they were delicious

[@2passportsandpostcards]

Yes he needs a job. But putting his mental wellbeing over the unwillingness to cut back on frivolous spending is WILD.

[@TheMahdi12349]

Yep

[@tomaszp2027]

He doesn't _need_ a job. They are spending 63% on fixed costs and could very well live a good life only on her salary. He should want one though.

[@tracyaf6084]

@@tomaszp2027he needs a job because he’s not married to the person who is earning the income imo. It’s very unwise to combine money with someone before you’re married.

[@adam7349]

He left his company due to mental stress. I did the same thing. It has only been a month and a a half since he left. The job market for the past few years have been crazy but he will eventually find one. If my wife was that stressed from her job I will support her and tell her to leave and find a new job. The wife also needs to chill with lecturing him about his linkendin. That is just making it worse. Micromanaging in a marriage feels like the person is the parent and the other person is the child. She needs to respect his decision and stop hovering over his shoulders every day.

[@kyleolson9636]

@@tomaszp2027 He probably needs a (good) job to be in this relationship though. She has chosen a high paying career likely because she wants a certain lifestyle. That is okay. If he has decided he doesn't want that lifestyle anymore because he has learned the level of stress high paying careers usually require, this probably isn't the right relationship for him anymore.

[@yajairacolin8865]

Good example of money doesn't buy happiness.

[@winsonliu1691]

The frame of mind here is off. Money after a certain threshold cannot bring more happiness. Also, they’re in the top 1% or 0.1% of the world. To have money problems while one person is making as much as she does is quite unfathomable.

[@CSpottsGaming]

​@@winsonliu1691It's really not unfathomable. People improve their lifestyle to match their income. While money can't buy happiness beyond a certain level, income also can't outpace spending. Not having a good grasp on finances will result in anxiety around money even if there's plenty (on paper) to go around.

[@rubired123]

I like the moment where Ramit humbled them and explained that they were living a 600-800k lifestyle. Despite them being high earners, they’re spending too much to keep up with the Joneses (just in a much more lucrative way than the average earner). They’re young and their income will only go up from here. But if they build a great foundation/investment portfolio now, they’ll set themselves up for life.

[@kyleolson9636]

I don't get where he got that number. Based on their current spending, it is more like a $350-400k lifestyle. They are only at 125% spending; 145% spending if they increase their savings to 20%. That comes to $367k pre-tax income. That is compatible with the boyfriend's expected income once he finds a job.

[@brianshulman6418]

I'm pretty sure it's from the guilt free spending number as a %. 7k per month is too high as a %. It would be more reasonable at 700k income.

[@李贝贝-MM]

They are young and 650k in investment already. Once he gets a job, they will be fine.

[@kyleolson9636]

@@brianshulman6418 I'm in a roughly $400k yearly income household and have $6k per month in guilt free spending. My fixed costs are $10k and savings are $10k. That is what a $400k lifestyle looks like even for someone who is investing/saving 40% of their income. I could increase my guilt free spending to $7k by just reducing my savings percentage to 36%, which I probably will do next year when we plan to go to DisneyWorld.

[@kyleolson9636]

@@brianshulman6418 $7k is 30% of a $400k household's take home income. If he gets a $150-200k job as he intends, they will have over $400k in annual income. So Ramit's own guideline of 20-35% would declare $7k in guilt-free spending reasonable for a $400k household.

[@JacobTamme-ws2jt]

Honestly Maddie feels like a series of red flags. She could just work with Paul to cut back on spending for a bit and give him a chance to find a job that doesn’t deteriorate his mental health. They don’t have kids, their fixed costs are reasonable, just dial it back- it should be that easy. Instead she continues to spend and pressured Paul because resources are scarce. I’d run if I were him.

[@mikaelaziegler9782]

Same. She micromanages him about finding another job, yet she has no issue continuing to shop and travel. Def keeping up with others and don’t want to say “no” and feel left out.

[@ginjobique]

He proposed then quit his job...its manipulative...he isnt going to run anywhere. He has her wrapped around his finger and is unbothered re finances. If they get pregnant he will be a stay at home dad

[@CITIGIRL07]

🚩 red flag on this one. They haven’t started a life together really and the 1st hurdle is about to take them out! No way would I have been okay with being micromanaged. However, I have to say she was confused why he didn’t have an exit strategy in place. That would have been wise.

[@nato2010]

@@CITIGIRL07 If you made zero and the micromanager made over 200k, I doubt you would leave.

[@tims9376]

@@ginjobiqueyou have some deep rooted issues if that’s what you got from this

[@Danfinitely]

One income isn’t the problem. 263k is literally plenty! This is an example of enough is never enough.

[@lowlowseesee]

lol you didnt watch the whole episode. and if you did thats a myopic take lol

[@Danfinitely]

@@lowlowseesee I did watch it. I stated facts of 263k and lifestyle inflation. It’s natural.

[@LisalivinginBerlin]

I felt better after watching it like „Oh, even if you have this amount of money you still have the same behavioral issues as people who make way less". It shows HOW important the right mindset on money psychology is, so I took a lot away from Ramits comments on this couple (maybe that's why he shared it? The first impression is like yours: enough is never enough and he wants us to learn from the mistakes rich people do? I don't know, maybe something like that.)

[@eddiemalvin]

They absolutely need to control their spending but I think, in this case, one income is still an issue. I've personally experienced her situation but in reverse... from a household with a single six-figure income to a household with dual six-figure incomes. It's a world of difference. Where we live, an annual household income of $250k means living very comfortably while a household income of $500k offers a life of endless abundance.

[@Byoung009]

Crazy

[@coachisaiahv]

It always amazes me when people don't follow up. A simple "thank you Ramit, you've given me alot to think about and I'm not sure what changes if any I'm going to make but I appreciate your time." There so many other people that could have benefitted from a convo with Ramit that may have been passed up. The least people can do is show appreciation afterwards.

[@ajhuttonsc]

I think she was probably upset about the outcome of the podcast

[@dchen1586]

she wants it all (and is stressed about it) and doesn't have all the money. and a third of their money is an inheritance. ugh. really insufferable.

[@ajhuttonsc]

@@dchen1586 probably at LEAST a third!

[@stevenmercado6666]

I rather not have a wedding was powerful .

[@stevenmercado6666]

I rather not have a wedding was powerful .

[@irgggg34]

Very relatable episode. "Be very careful about taking on labour from your partner. It sets a precedent and it has bigger ramifications than most of us think about."

[@ih2439]

@donaldjohnson-ow3kqwow, cooking dinner for your family, what a hero. Why should your ex wife have been the default cook if she also worked?

[@kyleolson9636]

​@@ih2439 That is a very condescending comment. You don't know what other household tasks he does, just that he added cooking to his responsibilities to help his wife during a difficult time at work.

[@swithheld9905]

their income is not that relatable (to me), but i do enjoy how the same themes, thoughts, and feelings keep popping up, no matter the income level. I'd love for Ramit to write a new book about the common detrimental money attitudes we inherit from our parents, and what questions to ask to start recognizing those patterns.

[@CSpottsGaming]

​@@swithheld9905I agree and I think that means you took more from this episode than most commenters seem to have. It's not about the income level or the specific kind of spending that's happening. It's about the attitudes that surround it. Maybe it's a trip to Ibiza for them and it's a night out with friends at a club for you, but the point is the same, the feelings are the same, and the result is the same (scaled for income, of course).

[@memory-lane-1]

He is burnt out, it is definitely not laziness. He needs to heal from the trauma that he went through. Micromanaging only leads to overwhelm

[@danajones9427]

The minute she said that she "checks in" with him constantly, all day, every day is sending major NAG flags. He said he needed a mental break....hmm maybe it wasn't just work that was dragging him down, and he just doesn't see it yet. Living with a fly buzzing in your ear will drive you crazy!

[@danajones9427]

​@@Britt4880I'm so sorry

[@mrs.quills7061]

@@creeper2054she’s making a ton of money, if the roles were reversed you wouldn’t be saying that. It’s not like he’s taking advantage of her and doesn’t have skills or a career. I’d rather he’d take a break than dig an early grave.

[@ceeces2]

Yes but he’s living off of her not off his $$$. That’s troubling at this stage of the relationship.

[@ceeces2]

@@mrs.quills7061he has skillls but he doesn’t want to work in his field. She’s financially responsible for him and she doesn’t like it.

[@HoustonTom]

you need to be cautious when you run in a friend/family group that spend heavily on trips and weddings. The price of admission to that group is also spending. And if you don't keep up with them, you could be pushed to the side. People have to decide what is important to them.

[@sharamafiz3441]

Perfectly said.

[@cap4life1]

Thank you for showing high earners as well. I appreciate all the videos but it’s helpful to see that having money doesn’t suddenly change people’s financial habits.

[@matthewhaag1149]

"Trust fund kids struggle to live their Instagram life"

[@Ukcanary]

we need more rich people on this podcast please

[@ltltornado3337]

THIS

[@ek6007]

She has a scarcity mindset and then massively overspends. What a mess...

[@pappy924]

Obviously it’s because of the generational and childhood trauma 🤥

[@michaelellenberger3183]

It’s scarce because she spends it all duhhh 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@Pwalex]

She is simultaneously very self-aware, and completely self-delusional.

[@johnjohn40100]

How is that possible?

[@kyleolson9636]

She isn't as delusional as the episode makes it seem. They have $7k in guilt-free spending, which is about 30% of a $400k household's take home income. This is the income they had before he left his job. I spend $6k on guilt-free spending on a $400k income while saving $10k. I have no guilt. But if I stopped working our fixed + guilt free spending would reach 175% of our income even if our savings went to zero. There are some tweaks this couple should do to their spending, but almost the entire issue is neither of them want to reduce spending while he is unemployed. And they haven't truly considered whether he wants another high paying job considering he left his last one because of stress (hint: nearly all high paying jobs are high stress)

[@LismoreLady]

Sorry but she irritated me no end. Spoilt brat vibes with her dissing a $50K wedding as one she wouldn’t want? They’re both so shallow with their angst about not being able to keep up with the Jones’s. They’re the epitome of Status Anxiety, that brilliant book by Alain de Botton. 🙄

[@MauriSky2437]

Stay tuned for the certain divorce.

[@rinoita12sammy]

I spent 150 dollars for our wedding because we were really struggling at the time. We didn’t rent anything, just did it at home and I made all the food and baked cupcakes instead of a cake! We had a great time with all of our loved ones ❤ I think the most important thing is to make the memories not how much you spend at the party

[@jennyortega7018]

This is really beautiful. Very few people know how to find happiness in simplicity. ❤

[@jellybean2682]

Love this

[@acs4410]

It’s a right decision to quit a job due to mental stress. I have a friend husband who endured the stress on his job too long and got cancer and died in 50s

[@wintermelonsoup4681]

I’m sorry for her loss, may he rest peacefully.

[@debbielockhart7762]

He should run. She is impossible to please. $649k at 29 and she says "it should be double".

[@KS-cl8br]

compared to their incomes it should be

[@imo098765]

@@KS-cl8br no, with her spending habits and inability to cut back for a month. Thats why they cant save more. Why you spending the extra 3-4K per month when that could go into savings

[@marissaswinghammer3149]

Fellow American living in London. Why do they even have a car payment? The tube, taxis/ubers and renting cars for day trips periodically is way more affordable and sanity saving. With that rent they should be living near a tube line for a 1-2 bedroom even with our bonkers rental market.

[@oluchinwagboso7996]

I think it's part of Keeping up with the Jonses Ramit mentioned

[@donnyj9487]

This is another example of why you need to have a financial discussion prior to committing to someone.

[@vevetorok]

Respecfully, Paul deserves a better partner. It's not like he is some ambitionless lazy couch potato. After 2 high demanding stressful jobs he's totally burned out, just look at him, he looks miserable (sorry Paul, saying this with love, but it def shows). Of course he wants to take it slow. But instead of supporting him, his future wife keeps nagging the heck out of him. After only 1,5months. And for what ??? They make 20K/month on one income! Of course, Maddie has every right to want to live a luxurious life. But it seems that lifestyle and social status are more important to her than Paul himself. Marriage is supposed to be for better or worse. Your "worse" is happening now and it's not looking great for you two. Your wedding is in Sept 2025. Still enough time to reconsider. Just saying 🙌

[@jeniffervarela6066]

I'm not one to feel bad for men often but I felt bad for Paul. He deserves a supportive partner.

[@lisajackson3743]

You made a good point. He said they would prioritize work when the children were born, and maybe they agreed to that, sounds good. Based on how he responded to the work situation, he might change his mind when the children come along, and that's a little scary for both of them. I hope they reevaluate whether they are a right fit for the future children's sake... Money is important but it isn't everything and they have already shown they can't come to agreement on that sentiment.

[@jordanintheknow]

I mean she said she would rather not have a wedding than a small 50k wedding. That seems like a terrible situation to be in if I were Paul...

[@davidsrandombs]

Very well said!

[@CM-cy3qo]

@@jeniffervarela6066interesting you noticed you don’t feel much empathy for men yet seem mostly ok with that.

[@rsp1983]

55:42 He says he doesn't think they "keep up with the Joneses", and she immediately disagrees, he gives up, crosses his arms, and she takes over. He never gets to articulate why he thinks that is. 1:01:37 He says they're going to 8 or 9 weddings, she says "4 are meaningful to [her]", and he immediately gives in. I'm guessing those dropped 4-5 are more for his friends/family than hers. This hits really close to home. I was in a similar situation -- married, joint income close to $500k with multiple millions in investments. Quit my job to relax and find my next thing and suddenly we weren't ok. Couples counseling; regularly prioritized her point of view to keep the peace; divorced 4 months later. Happier now, but it was a long, painful, expensive process. Paul? Run.

[@yvonneh5334]

Hope Paul reads your comment.

[@simsamurai333]

Why do you think you quitting your job had to do with the divorce? Not instigating, just super curious!

[@saeedhossain6099]

​​@@simsamurai333it's not disclosed but it's not uncommon for the lower earning spouse to have a habit of spending money their partner hasn't made yet, and even if they have stability, then the lack of busy-ness becomes a point of resentment because they're still working something they don't want to.

[@d24314]

I watch dave ramsey. 1. Keep finances separate until married. 2. Have 3-6 month emergency fund for precisely this situation.

[@lvega5606]

​@@d24314 Dave is a four-letter word around these parts, as he doesn't have a strong finance background. But, yes, those are two very basic pieces of info that everyone knows, including Davey R.

[@celinelover]

I was listening to this in the car and unfortunately I do relate to a lot of what Maddie speaks of in terms of financial anxiety and having parents who swing in opposite directions in terms of finances. But when I tell yall the "WTF" moment I had when I heard how much money she brings in a month....hahaha how humbling it was to hear of someone who makes that much and still has the same feelings as I do. Ramit said it best, how we feel about money isn't correlated to how much money we have in the bank!!

[@kelly4618]

This income is insane to me and I'm in California! They have incredible income for such a young family! Good for them but my goodness that is a lot of spending as well.

[@stefanschumacher6208]

This is a good example of how people with money can be just as foolish financially as those without. They’re in for a rude awakening if they have kids.

[@BradyMordhorst-i3n]

People that are comfortable with themselves and have true friends can say no we can’t afford it and the friendship doesn’t change. A true relationship is a “we” and not a “you” 😊

[@Payamps17]

Bro from the bottom of my heart RUN!!!

[@pennyjulian]

They don’t seem well matched. She definitely wants to keep up with the Jones. Throw a few kids into the mix would be a disaster.

[@nadinebouchard9843]

He is exactly the same with his traveling with buddies in Spain to play golf.

[@JayLawson]

The way I see it is that she doesn't want to be the provider. She doesn't want to have to be bringing in 100 percent of the household income.

[@zakkrick]

Very true, he’s trying to live the best life as possible but she’s keeping up with the jones. Then she should go marry the jones. Any other man would’ve left her already

[@saeedhossain6099]

Ramit is a total save a bro on this episode. he got a neutral arbiter who basically has confirmed what his golf buddies have been saying.

[@ignaciosantana6898]

Yeah I can’t get through this one. She is stressing me the hell out.

[@NickiBluIs]

I wish they broke down their “guilt free” spending into clearer line items and planned for it in advance. $7000 is a lot of money to spend thoughtlessly. Not to mention there is NO line item for the wedding…

[@nadinebouchard9843]

They said they would take it out of their investments. That wedding is going to cost a fortune if you take into account the cost of opportunity.

[@lowlowseesee]

@@nadinebouchard9843 faccccts

[@lvega5606]

​@@nadinebouchard9843That's right - ouch. 150k invested for 30 years could be more like 1.2mm in today's terms.

[@mq830]

Honestly speaking, having LARGE WEDDINGS are just ridiculous. I get that people dream about it, and they go into it thinking like it'll be the best day of their lives, etc, etc. But if you really can't afford, then is it really worth it? Do you really want to go into further debt because of it? Do you really need to invite everyone!? In today's society, there is just too much emphasis put into the idea of having a grand wedding. It's become a monetary black hole for most people. Life would be much better if you have a simpler wedding, and instead spend the money on vacations, experiences and investments.

[@betz6507]

It's a crazy thing. My brother got married in a church and the reception was in the basement, with some finger food. We had a great time. Personally these huge weddings are an unnecessary flex.

[@SS-rv1mb]

Also - they claim to have so many friends, and that she loves to party, but how many of those friendships are based upon jet setting across the world and enjoying lavish vacations versus a honest-to-God friendship?

[@1michellej925]

I was honestly so happy to get married during the first part of covid. It forced us to only have like 35 people. ONLY the people that really meant the world to us. We ended up spending about $9k. It was wonderful! Bought a house, in California, 4 months later.

[@Benthecopyboy]

Especially considering about 50% of marriages end in divorce. We need a culture change.

[@zackcinq-mars2129]

Now that I see how much my friends tend to spend on even more modest weddings, I am somewhat thankful that Covid basically cancelled my wedding. We still had our immediate families and closest 10 friends attend and it was special. It cost about 5% of what we were planning to spend!

[@BillionaireForever]

My high school best friends had a “destination wedding”. The only reason I was able to make it is because the “destination” was my home country and my dad was the one they hired for their transportation service. They were very well aware of my financial status bc we’ve all always been open about it in our friend group. They privately told me that I didn’t need to pay them back for the services, just the prepaid activities and that they didn’t need it immediately. Being open and honest within your friend group is KEY to not letting anyone go into debt out of the shame of not being able to afford a group outing. My friends and I have always made it a team effort. We’ve always laid proportionate to income rather than equal parts. If more friend groups operated like this, people would be in less debt.

[@litcguitarist]

If this is what they’re like at the engagement stage imagine 10 years married with 2 kids under 5. They have to start thinking as a team especially her.

[@stephaniemejia4324]

If they had a friend that was unable to attend their wedding due to a job loss, I'm sure they would understand. They should expect the same in return from their friends.

[@Aquaria2291]

They probably don't want to admit to anyone that they're worried about money.

[@livelife1899]

I loved this episode! Super relatable. As someone who has been a bridesmaid 6 times and recently had my own micro-wedding, I can attest to the inflated wedding costs. It’s such a real issue. TBH, it gets harder and harder to attend these big social gatherings as we get older. I do think these are really special moments and what we don’t have as we get older is time.

[@LL-pq5uo]

Based on her lack of providing an update, I highly doubt changes will be made. Typically younger people caught up in the lifestyle of keeping up with friends rarely change -- because it's a mentality that's hard to get out of. Their friendship dynamics would drastically change if they weren't able to socially engage at the same level as their circle of friends, and clearly that's something that's very important to them.

[@lisajackson3743]

She knows an inheritance from her father is coming when he passes, and they plan to prioritize work over children, so they will not have to change her spending long term.

[@saeedhossain6099]

the lack of an update speaks to me as she's got one foot out the door and she's thinking this appearance can be parlayed into a future relationship.

[@monmon-vk8rz]

​@lisajackson3743 I mean, how old's her dad? If he's 50ish That inheritance may not come for 30 more years.

[@willbalkovec2631]

Great Episode - i saw myself in both individuals. Appreciate the transparency they both showed.

[@batemanlife]

50k wedding proposed to her and she says id rather not have a wedding. How romantic. Tney are probably nice people but they are a little spoiled too.

[@problematicpolarbear6065]

I would have left that very second.

[@michellegreen1072]

Imagine the discord with her saying "Ok. I can do $50K" and still spend double. LOL

[@jimgold2550]

I cannot understand that mindset at all. Can anyone who is sympathetic to her pov elaborate?

[@LittleMaitake]

That's the part that made my jaw drop ... I understand wanting your dream wedding, but saying you'd rather not have a wedding at all of you can't get that, it felt so insulting.

[@lizRomrell]

I was shocked to hear that. Who is the wedding for? You or Instagram?

[@pchygrl17]

Interesting episode. Always appreciate folks being willing to come on and be so open. They are in a really privileged position, I hope they stick to the new operations shared in their update.

[@license2Bort]

These situations are always so sad. Sacrificing peace and stability for more material things is not worth it. While I understand that we are all influenced by our peers, being an adult means that you need to be realistic with what you can and can't afford. Him being out of a job for A SINGLE MONTH shouldn't cause this level of stress at their income levels (they aren't worried about being homeless or losing health insurance, they are worried about taking less trips and having to downsize their wedding). Like the saying goes, tell me what your problems are and ill tell you who you are...

[@license2Bort]

Also extremely sad to hear that if she couldn't have her dream wedding she didn't want it.

[@ThnkDfrnt]

83k for a 120 person wedding is absolutely insane. Over $650 per person? She is her own worst enemy

[@arh1234]

One challenge is the pressure to reciprocate. Once you've been to lots of $$$ weddings, it's hard feeling like you're not providing a similar experience to those same people.

[@shaneq1932]

The cost per head is only one element, majority of costs are fixed regardless of how many guests eg Band, DJ, photographer/videographer, dress, flowers, transport etc etc

[@SwaeTech]

@@shaneq1932Majority of costs are self inflicted.

[@kyleolson9636]

Their household income is 5x average while he is working and 3x average when he is unemployed (by the age of 30). They have 1.5x their combined income in investments by age 30, where 1x income is the recommended target by that age. Spending $83k for a wedding, which is about 2.5x average, is not excessive at their financial level. I may question some of their other spending, but they have worked their way into a social class where that is absolutely affordable. They could spend $200k of their investments today and still be above the recommended investment target for a couple their age.

[@bwrscott1]

All weddings are stressful. There is not a perfect wedding, stuff will go wrong. I had a wedding of that size but on the cheap. Cut corners where I could (got married at my high school, bought alcohol from CostCo). Spent money on the food, photographer and DJ at reception. Looking back 35 years ago, the photos help to remind us where we started on our journeys.

[@SqueakyPeeps]

I hope Paul and Maddie watch their episode and really see how wealthy they are. And spending $120k on a wedding with 120 guests means they are spending $1000 per person. Absolutely ridiculous IMO. No one will remember anything besides the food.

[@terid6708]

I keep going back to the "like" button only to realize I hit it already. Love your content. Thank you for posting your wisdom. I'm learning so much! Thank you. I am also very grateful for your guests who are sharing so much personal information. Thank you all!

[@markmastalski9104]

I'm in my 50s and my wife and I just celebrated our fourteenth wedding anniversary. She has taught me so much about money and relationships - the most important being that we are a team and we support one another. I quit my job in 2022 and she supported us as I started a new business. Then she quit her job and we moved so she could attend graduate school. I am now the person supporting us. I hope Maddie and Paul can do similar and see the strength in each other and work together on creating the future they want. My wife and I say no to things all the time. But we also say yes to many things like game nights with friends that don't require a ton of $$$. We love to travel and we haven't a trip since just before Covid. But we know why this is and it's just something that is temporarily delayed due to the other choices we have made at this time.

[@cmay4242]

This girl knows exactly who she is.. Now she doesn't change her actions, but at least she is true to herself.

[@KNRS927]

Ramit really needs to do an overall episode on what “power couple” means, and how to define it in the context of a rich life. I feel way too often, people go into a relationship with that goal and spend like it thinking power couple just means “make a lot of money.” Then when the going gets rough for one or the other, the other partner can’t adjust their expectations/habits or support the other partner because they’re just disappointed that partner isn’t meeting their expectations set. I feel that’s the case here where Maddie went into this thinking they’d be a power couple and then when her partner is going through a tough spell now, she doesn’t seem supportive or willing to adjust her expectations/spending. That wedding just seems insane.

[@DidacticToast]

Admittedly, I initially felt annoyed at not finding the salary of these folks relatable. Reading the comments though made me think more deeply on this. These videos are both informative and scare the hell out of me. I can't imagine making this much and thinking its not enough. I can't imagine being with a partner who rather than trying to support me work through a hard time, became a drill sergeant in order to get me working to fund her desired lifestyle. I would feel incredibly trapped and frankly sad that my life is about keeping up with appearances - all of which don't appear to ever be enough. This episode ended up being another helpful reminder as to why I want to be lifestyle aware AND to be mindful of where am placing my attention; ie the numbers in my bank account or the people I love. Edit: I do think it is important to interview the average person though as high earner folks are in a far stronger position to quickly address debt accumulation and afford to hire support. Most are not as fortunate and I think views would benefit from the validation in both seeing how the average person struggles AND the options they can take to change it IE their mindset/choices (without having the high salary as support). Ideally having the opportunity to highlight the flip side on how you can lead a happy life with far less.

[@Th3Think3r]

One important improvement they should consider investing time in is being able to say no before they have kids. Glad Ramit touched on it at the end.

[@Username_CC_]

I do feel like these are not getting wrapped up well recently and not sure why. Maybe the couples have a tight deadline but I wish they could really dig into what the hell their plan is. They seemed to have no solutions by the end.

[@ms.z461]

True, did Paul get a job? We'll never know

[@metaridley1848]

I think it's likely that the vast majority of people who come on here don't really change. I haven't really seen a good update since I've started watching the podcast. The show is useful for the audience to see how others' finances are going and the pitfalls that they have, but for the one on the show I don't think it can really change them fundamentally.

[@coachisaiahv]

I agree but recently the people don't seem open to a change or a plan and Ramit senses tha so he doesn't push the issue. You can tell the people that are actually looking to change. They're usually the ones that have both read his book and make less money. The high earners think the money will solve itself

[@jimgold2550]

@@coachisaiahvIt’s bananas to me that people will come on the show not having read the book, or not doing the exercises properly (like one will do it for both half-assed even though the whole point is to do it together). Why would you behave that way?

[@ericadaimo8599]

Exactly!! If you remove that inheritance, the money they have is below average at their age, and spending more than current income means they are not living paycheck to paycheck because it's NEGATIVE. Soon, they won't have anything. They need reality check, they cannot keep up with the Joneses.

[@smileyspoon1]

So the issue here I think is that she is not willing to support him, emotionally and financially for her prospective husband when he is down. They are not even married yet and this is already occurring. You are in the honeymoon phase, but her actions are not promising. If the roles were reversed and he is doing what she is doing the wedding would be called off. From my personal situation, when my wife was mistreated at work, I told her immediately to quit her job if that's what she wants. I cared more about honoring my wife than money. I personally feel if things are reversed, my wife would say the same thing even though her income would not be able to keep us afloat. At least she would be supportive emotionally, and try to make sacrifices where she could. I personally feel that type of loyalty is what counts when looking for a partner. I do however understand the insecurity part when there's a single income and your wife and child counts on your income, but that's the normal state for any man worth their salt.

[@debbielockhart7762]

I have always told my partner if they were unhappy at a job "quit, life is short". I have zero issue supporting my man for him to take a mental health break.

[@smileyspoon1]

@@debbielockhart7762 wow amazing 💯

[@Ajajaj-k3i]

Yes!

[@El-wf2zx]

Why didn’t we get into Paul’s background? He was let off the hook- he is spending just as much as her, but is simultaneously looking to “find his bliss” through work while expecting her to carry the entire financial load.

[@klick0858]

To be fair, he only quit his job like a month or 2 ago and is hoping to find something in 6 months

[@nadinebouchard9843]

I completely agree with you. He does his share of the spending and the signals he sends regarding his job hunting are not very reassuring.

[@El-wf2zx]

@@klick0858yes, but Maddie expressed that the writing was on the wall for the business venture long before he left, and he quit his corporate law position well before that. It’s been a month and a half of complete unemployment for Paul but we don’t know how unprofitable the business was before that and for how long.

[@matthewwitte3832]

It's entirely possible they discussed it but didn't air it due to being unrelated to their financial situation, or not interesting etc.

[@Aquaria2291]

​​@@matthewwitte3832I would have liked to see it. They mentioned he had another career that didn't work out. I'd be interested to hear more about that and what happened. And I'm curious about his background because why doesn't he stand up for himself re: his job search. Why is he letting her function as a micromanaging boss.

[@kaylavasconcellos5942]

This couple feels very relatable to myself and my fiance. We are both dentists with friends around the country, as well as many similar-aged siblings and cousins we are extremely close with. We’ve attended about 20 weddings over the past 3 years as It feels impossible to say no to people we love so much. It has set us behind in our savings goals, and has limited our ability to take vacations for ourselves as essentially all of our travel is for other people’s special day. It feels like every time we get ahead, another invitation arrives in the mail. It is a really difficult cycle to break, but we are trying by having a very small 15 person wedding for ourselves, which many of our friends have given us a hard time about. All this to say that it’s a lot easier said than done to function outside of the norm of your social circle.

[@lisajackson3743]

Kudos to you, that must have been hard to do. Even though they might be disappointed, your true friends will respect your decision and be glad you're taking care of your burgeoning family

[@juliewilsonchidester1657]

In Paul’s follow up call, it doesn’t even sound like they’re living together right now - they have a call every Sunday night to go over their spending plan.

[@krizak4421]

This is an expense problem not a revenue problem. In a healthy relationship, he (or her if the scenario were reversed) should be able to spend 6-9 months looking for the perfect job (that doesn't cause trauma and health problems). She should be supportive during this process and not cause more unnessesary stress. This is how people die of heart attacks at 40.

[@stevenspencer306]

Things took a turn when they got to the CSP! Paul is so down to earth saying, it's way more than he thought he'd ever have at this point in his life, and Maddie just blows it off like they're struggling middle class. They're solidly in the in top 10% for their age.

[@ChantalsBulgingEyebrow]

honestly i would say even more than 10%

[@eiloghosaewere2184]

They are in the 1%

[@elena_a-2023]

I sense little compassion from her regarding his needs. He is not even allow to have a short break. Her controlling ways are alarming. How would she handle an emergency? Like a health emergency? Their earnings are high and they could afford a couple of months off (gathering thoughts, regrouping so he could easily go into a new job). I feel she is one of those people who is rarely satisfied and nothing is ever enough!

[@pfifltrigg]

My husband and I make much less than them, but I would be stressed as heck if my husband quit his job with nothing lined up, especially given he makes more money than me. I can understand why she feels this way. They both have a lot to consider.

[@celpower]

@@pfifltrigg I would too and I was curious why he is unable to answer an email about a job and take two days to do it and she needing to follow up with him about it.

[@saeedhossain6099]

he's on her team, they are not on a team together.

[@lotone67]

​@celpower He’s too busy going on expensive golf trips with his frat bros...no time for email.

[@huajiluhai]

I don’t understand the hate on Paul for being a slacker or lazy…he’s burnt from work and he’s unemployed for 1.5month????? he can take a break for a few months if not even longer if he needs that. I don’t see there’s anything wrong with getting back to email late for a job cuz he doesn’t want to work or want a corporate lawyer job for now.

[@adkgj1098]

The fact that they paused so long when Ramit asked them "Whats more important, travelling to other peoples weddings or your wedding?" and Paul seemed like he didn't even want to answer the question before Maddie speaks volumes.... yikes. They're incredibly misaligned in priorities and they haven't even tied the knot yet.

[@livelife1899]

I think it’s because they really love their friends! They are an incredibly social couple

[@tanyora]

There’s no way the inheritance only made up 1/3 of their investments. They were investing 1-2k a month, that wouldn’t make up the other 450k given their ages and his now unemployment. I think they may be taking more credit than they’ve earned and haven’t factored in how much the inheritance has grown on its own.

[@Gioli565]

Agreed! There is a ton of privilege

[@timbick68]

Agreed!

[@taneshabland8686]

Well 2 points 1) I think they decreased the investment dollars once he left his job so now it’s only $1k per month. Especially because they keep talking about how aggressive they were investing and 2) if they were given $250k then compound interest is doing most of the work not the extra couple thousands they put in per month which would account for the amount they have

[@lvega5606]

I was thinking the same. That the inheritance had probably been 200k and grew to 400k. At least they haven't spent it!

[@andrearamirez-iq1qf]

I like how they can both communicate freely how they feel about their situation and how honest they are about their current stage. It seems so clear, they are at that stage of accepting reality….. they just need to agree to something and act on it!

[@pauchopkins12]

I don’t think we keep up with the Joneses to a ridiculous extent… Says the couple loving paycheck to paycheck on $250k and thinking $120k for a wedding is okay. And a good chunk of their investments are from inheritance.

[@timbick68]

Agree, feels like the majority of their investments were from the inheritance and gains over time versus the $1-2k per month they contribute. Without the inheritance, their net worth and financial position is drastically different.

[@barnumcastillo2789]

that was my exact reaction, I did not see the habits for that $627 000 portfolio, if they got a third $209 000 and waited for 10 years they said spent working it would amount to $542k with an interest rate of 10%. They have zero % on savings and only $1000 for investments currently

[@pauchopkins12]

I myself am not shaming them for having an inheritance and investing it. But be honest about why you have a good looking portfolio at such a young age. People who can’t afford to live on a quarter of a million dollars a year (it was higher before he quit his job) while investing nothing need a reality check. I’m glad Ramit provided them one.

[@La_sagne]

she said: id rather not have a wedding than have a 50k wedding 😂

[@juliamontejo1563]

I empathize with them and relate very much to this couple. My husband and I are in a similar age group and in a very quick time-span, our income doubled. We both grew up in households where money was scarce, so there was a sense of wanting to do it all, now that we technically had the cash. Though it was a different set of social expectations, we spent so much, mindlessly. We never had to think about how we were gonna eat or pay a bill, but we didn't have a cushion either. Now that we've spent the last year focusing on our financial wellbeing, we understand exactly what Ramit means when he says that having more money will not automatically solve our problems. In that time, we also had to make some hard choices about our wedding, and opted for a small wedding with just immediate family. Some dreams were lost with that one, but our long term future is worth it.

[@JeanPanzer]

Number ONE rule for success: marry the RIGHT person! 😉

[@debbielockhart7762]

I think he should keep looking.

[@JeanPanzer]

@@debbielockhart7762 definitely! 👍🏻

[@Happymavishappy]

I totally empathize with Maddie. My income has been high enough that I haven’t needed to budget or worry about money. But now that I have kids, I have that same anxiety about losing my job or overspending as Maddie. I know it’s because I haven’t run the numbers and set a budget for myself. But it’s hard gathering up the numbers and facing reality when you’re an overspender. 😅

[@HerrySusanto-cf4xv]

This is a beautiful conversation, couples talk about how they feel, how they do it day to day, and how to achieve the long term game. It looks hurt but it's important to understand this stressful situation.

[@ebelen1]

Sometimes I’m frustrated watching these vids because people can be clueless on what they can spend. The whole rich life concept works when you have the means versus what you think you deserve. Proud of Ramit calling it like it is on this one.

[@ebelen1]

@@tscottbaker2980 Funny. I get it. I also made “good money” at one point in my life and it’s only as good as long as it lasts haha

[@matcha_mage]

Totally agree. I also think their rich life is too much on the 'what' rather than the 'why'. Like, a big, expensive wedding and a small, more affordable wedding should mean the same to you regardless

[@zackcinq-mars2129]

The distinction between lifestyle creep and increased conscious spending is a GREAT point

[@gracemanortreasures]

These two are not a good match. She was expecting a successful lawyer as a partner to be her equal and have the life she dreamed of. He is having a hard time figuring out what he wants to do and is not too concerned about the things she wants in life. They do not belong together and will be unhappy in this marriage if it goes forward. I hope she doesn't marry him just because it's expected. Stop and think about it before you make a huge mistake.

[@Mav0585]

Agreed - won’t be a good match long term

[@kristakranko]

This!

[@CambieSweets]

Totally agree! I have a friend who married a guy thinking they’d become a power couple (her words not mine). He went to school for finance and she became a pharmacist. Well, he thought his life felt better being a Men’s soccer coach at a college. I asked her once if her husband wanted to be a power couple too? Well, they’re going through a divorce now unfortunately.

[@HoustonTom]

I can’t speak to whether they’re a match but she looks to be on a career/income trajectory much more than his.

[@funginimp]

Ehh I think they're ok. But they just need someone to shake them out of their world view a bit because it's too dependent on others and too used to privileges. Her identity is really tied to lifestyle and class but she can undo that with some introspection. They already use therapy so most likely someone will get through.

[@evelyngautier3980]

I’m an old lady 70 y/o. Things I think never change with regards to gender… women don’t respect men that don’t have a job or don’t earn an income. Even if they both decide he gets to stay home with the kids… eventually, if he doesn’t make money, things change!!!

[@carolyna.869]

100% it's just natural law. Why doesn't this "expert" Ramit point that out?

[@latulip100]

I’m a 40 year old child free career oriented woman. I would love nothing more than a house husband, that cleaned, had supper on the table, and cleaned out the litter boxes. Would they be happy given societal pressure probably not. Am I single because I feel those obligations would fall on me, yes.

[@cool_mom1]

70 is not old :) I agree!! My ex husband couldn't keep a job. Mostly he did not work at all. He did this thing where he wanted to go back to being a bank teller, never mind I want to go do customer service, nope hate credit card calling center, maybe I want to be a realtor. I spent $250/mo on his business expenses, phone/fax/desk on top of a couple of thousand for training and exam. Never sold one house. 17 years with someone freeloading and I kicked him out. He is in an apartment with a loser who also can never get credit for a house or car. This man needs to get a job and keep it. No one cares if you are "fulfilled," at this point in your life! JUST WORK!!!

[@SwaeTech]

@@latulip100Yeah, these gender stereotypes tend to rise from the woman having to bear the children. After she goes through that, very very few women are okay with what you just described over the long term, even if they make a lot of money.

[@MoneyMindsetCoach3]

I agree, she doesn’t want to be supporting him

[@Jrose91xx]

You can really start to tell she’s starting to lose respect for the guy and I honestly feel bad for him. She is either going to leave him or make him feel smaller and smaller and more pathetic. Sadly.

[@jefdby]

​. Same. Even children doing homework shouldn't be treated that way!

[@jimgold2550]

100%, seems like his job was important to her attraction (nothing wrong with that necessarily)

[@cognitive-botanical-therapy]

Yes, the convo about her parents and what they valued says a lot about what she values.

[@makenzienohr4105]

Yeah I’d be pissed if I met a guy with a high paying stable job and then he quit it for a job that made him more unhappy and then had to quit that one too. I would be worried

[@TJrules299]

@@Britt4880he didn’t do the math to make this make sense. He is being a child.

[@O1Kanoby]

The fact that she makes 20k a month and still has a car payment is just stupid..... Some people are just out of this world no matter how much money they make

[@stevenspencer306]

It's possible that they got a really good interest rate (< 3%). Not all debt is bad. If your money can do more for you in an investment or high yield savings, it doesn't make sense to lock it into a depreciating car all at once.

[@fpm8338]

and they have $5000 in debt LOL

[@brianm1603]

@Divided-Shark Do you really think she considered all that and made an informed decision?

[@NicoleSmith-rm6qv]

I have been in this EXACT same position with my partner. When he was out of work, it made me so angry that he wouldn’t do everything possible to get whatever job he could to help contribute. Things are better now that he’s found a job that he loves, but I really wanted to leave him during that time. I’m glad I didn’t but I work two jobs and to see him not working while I worked so hard was just soul crushing

[@tomaszp2027]

How long did it take?

[@DamianBadalamenti]

You sound like you have a very superficial relationship. I feel sorry for your husband. Like that say women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally, men not so much.

[@jefdby]

​@@DamianBadalamentithat's not true. Sometimes it goes the other way around.

[@zoraster3749]

Briffault’s Law… Big cause of divorce is when a man loses his job or a woman gets promoted to a level equal to or greater than her husband. Just the way it is.

[@Capycorg]

59:15 great insight from Paul that there's no room for error with high spending once kids are in the picture

[@SB-dx4wi]

So instead of just cutting spending, she’s going to try and force him to make a rash job decision? This is not teamwork

[@tenzindechen6491]

Give him timeline - 3-6 months. U want him to have job that he loves

[@Amanda-xx7sj]

@@tenzindechen6491meh, jobs don’t need to be loved, they just need to be worth the pay and not have an awful working environment.

[@whyme7862]

Teamwork is also not quitting a job without consulting your teammate. His exit could have been planned.

[@michellegreen1072]

He left a job without having another one lined up. It’s ok to move on but not until you’ve gotten another job. Just asking for trouble otherwise.

[@mikaelaziegler9782]

@@whyme7862 his job was ruining his mental health and he was at a low point. Totally ok to leave that without an another job to go to, they can take a few months on 1 income, no problem.

[@musemellow]

2:30 "a serious case of I deserve this I deserve that I deserve everything". Here's a reality honey, just because you make a "good" living, doesn't give you an entitlement to spend it all, I wish life was that easy.

[@taneshabland8686]

Lmao actually she is entitled to spend every dime she makes lol 😅that’s is how that works ahah

[@musemellow]

​@@taneshabland8686 Then don't cry like a woman-child to a podcast asking for help, about having no saving after spending it all. That's not how life works.

[@taneshabland8686]

@@musemellow lol I think it’s clear from ur original comment that u don’t know how life works so there’s that lol 😂 and she has over half a million in savings and investments so she’s not crying about that either lol she came on the podcast because they’re in new territory with him not working and she being the only income. I think the reality is ur upset because she makes a lot of money and u feel like she’s whining while also having the income most people dream of and ur the one who is the most upset lol but unfortunately that IS how life works 💖

[@musemellow]

@@taneshabland8686 are you sure I’m upset? from where I am sitting, you’re the one who started to attack my character and make assumptions. someone who has no control over their spending is not someone enviable regardless how much she earns. If you truly believe that having high income with no ability to save is a good position to be at and something that people should envy, then you’re in the wrong KZbin channel. It’s plain and simple, having less income due to husband quitting his job then either cut down spending and have some savings, or spend it all since she’s so entitled to spend every dime. Just don’t spend it all and then cry at a podcast, it’s a waste of everyone’s time.

[@shkwon5839]

It is so interesting how even among high earners, the approach to wealth and money psychology can be so different. My best friend is slightly younger with similar income to Maddie, but she budgets actively to make charitable contribution to society and chooses travel destinations based on carbon footprint and the impact on the local community instead of social pressure. It looks like Maddie, although she spends more money on herself with a similar budget, has a harder time feeling content with her wealth compared to my friend.

[@brewingjoy]

The reality is you guys could legit save 50% of your income and be work optional in 2-3 years. Maybe even less if you could do more. Also your wedding and the “people” you want to invite will not be around in 10 yrs especially as you have kids. You’ll regret that money wasted on one day. Your portfolio growing should be #1 priority so you don’t need to stress about babies, childcare or anything else down the road. Really think about your future self in 5 years. As a corporate working woman who now has a child your entire identity will change OVERNIGHT and you may not even want to work and stay home. You’ll thank yourself for at LEAST the option even if you decide to work.

[@klick0858]

I think it's easy to say that from the perspective of normal everyday people. But their social circle probably makes it difficult to do so, and it's tough to just separate from them

[@jefdby]

As a 54 yo without retirement, (never had that kind of money though) I would so so second this. It's so important and could make things so much easier down the road. You have the chance to retire early. Do it!

[@ChapstickChunx]

This is the truth! That option is priceless once you have kids.

[@zoraster3749]

Hypergamy and Briffault’s Law. Women get married for “better and richer” not for worse and poorer. The reason it’s in the vows is because we struggle with it. I saw a stat onetime that said a woman’s idea of an equal partner is a man that makes 50% more than them. Applying that math, she’s pulling in $250k and she’s wanting her partner to pull in $375k+. Before you ignore my point ask yourself if the shoe fits? What did Ramit say… you’re living a $600-$800k lifestyle which is exactly where she wants to be and how she is operating. This guy trying to lock her down with an engagement/marriage and then resigning afterwards is suspect. Almost like he knew what the deal was going to be with her and he’s trying to leverage her into a commitment while then under delivering on his end. It’s pretty apparent what she wants and what she expects and she’s a heavy hitter in her own right. This guy might just be out of his weight class. You can’t expect v12 performance out of a v6. Nothing wrong with a v6, it will get the job done but if you expect it perform as a v12 you will be disappointed and the v6 will burnout trying to perform at a level it isn’t designed to. If she wants v12 performance she should court a v12. A killer in his early 30s putting in 80 hour weeks (who won’t have time to travel) or a guy in his 40s that has already made it. The problem with those types of men is that they are very disagreeable and there’s very little room for negotiation. You’re either on their program or you’re out. Likewise, a v6 shouldn’t try to be something it is not. He just needs to be candid about his goals and objectives and what he is willing to bring to the table. I get the sense that he’s trying to make her happy or hang onto her while she’s accelerating away from him in terms of her desires and expectations. Better to have some introspection and be very candid about what the expectations are and what we’re willing to bring to the table. It was said a couple of times but there is a big misalignment here that needs to be resolved.

[@ST-rj8iu]

Men leave if their wife gets sick. It is a known statistic. red pill is one sided.

[@ceeces2]

I agree. There is a huge misalignment here. He is comfortable not working. I was unemployed for a month once and it was very stressful.

[@malikward9237]

I think even when Paul gets a job this couple still needs to cut back on things. Because when the next emergency comes they won't be able to survive on one income

[@El-wf2zx]

I think when she heard that their lifestyle requires 7-800k that’s what she heard. Cutting back is not on her radar and that’s why she didn’t provide a follow-up.

[@RyChOr2005]

I think I specifically needed to hear Ramit's view on lifestyle creep at 38:39. Every time we get a raise/bonus we pretend it doesn't exist and put it straight to savings/retirement. Definitely can improve our balance between future us and present us.

[@problematicpolarbear6065]

Thats pretty hardcore. I do the same but with "only" 50% of the bonus/raise and I thought I am tough on myself. I went many years putting it all aside and know how that feels, dont you need a bit of a reward from time to time ?

[@nishadas1935]

Thank you for sharing this view and also to Paul & Maddie for being so honest especially around the last part of the podcast. I did feel there is a lot related to comparing your life with richer friends rather than being appreciative and smart with money. I'm not sure if Maddie was totally convinced hahah although Paul did try his best, very interesting take loved it 💕💕

[@dm96177]

Immense privilege setting an expectation for a lifestyle. They aren’t living in despair, they are living an insane lifestyle that they are afraid to lose because it is so tied to their self worth and status.

[@jacquelinemorris3581]

Great show as always. This is quite scary because I think a lot of people live this way with trying to keep up with their peers and lifestyle creep. It’s sad because they don’t want to give up anything it seems but can’t afford it. Terrifying. They would be one sickness or job loss away from losing it all especially if they add on kids and more expenses. Great learning lessons though. I always find it interesting how one grew up impacts their adult life.

[@jtspetersen]

My biggest takeaway from this episode is that is is hard to understand what you CAN afford at whatever income level you are at. But that is the conscious part of the plan - being able to balance your wants and needs now with those in your future.

[@LisalivinginBerlin]

Thanks, Ramit for this episode

[@olds84bigblock63]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment. If the roles were reversed, how do you think she would react if he behaved this way towards her? She's revealing her true character before marriage. If you decide to proceed, consider reflecting on this video, as it may be indicative of what to expect in the future.

[@annadavis6361]

Wow, great point. The fact that Maddie did not come on and do a video is a tail tail to me as well.

[@jenniferarcher-bock9302]

I’m a millennial, but jfc I’ll never understand why my generation feels the need to overspend like they’re celebrities. All the parties and travel… My wedding cost 3K at bed & breakfast. Maybe that’s why my husband and I are debt free and so happy.

[@mmp495]

Totally agree with you. Those trips to Europe were usually what ppl did much later in life. They are the “I want it now!” Generation. That’s a crash and burn in my eyes.

[@sonderexpeditions]

This isn't a millennial issue.

[@Hostyl176]

At 8:40 she states she was upset with him for staying a job he hated for too long. At 11:25 she says he should get any job, even if it's not one more fulfilling. My guy is literally damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. She has *zero* desire to support him for any length of time. It's gonna be a rough road ahead for him.

[@ceeces2]

He wasn’t looking for something new even though he hated his old job, which fits. This guy is passive.

[@RB-gq2zy]

Sounds like she has major FOMO. She strikes me as the type of person who will not be happy unless she has it all even if it’s not financially realistic and responsible. She probably compares herself to others which is a theft of happiness.

[@brianm1603]

But, I bet her instagram has lots of great pictures.

[@yvonneh5334]

Yes, well stated. One day when she is more mature, she will learn that happiness comes from within.

[@TheJakobRose]

Only in my wildest dreams would my partner and I be able to afford a 50k wedding and she says she rather not have one at all? yikes. Paul wanting a couple months off in between intense jobs is completely understandable. She comes across as a spoiled brat who cares more about image than her partner's well being.

[@milivaro]

The whole “I rather not have a wedding” was def spoiled bratty behavior lol I was shook!

[@satyanveshi1939]

Thanks Ramit for posting all these vidoes. when i watch them my confusion or slight regret of being single just disappears, i feel so so grateful that i dont have any partner and no one to micro manage me and make my life hell. I have the flexibility and freedom to downgrade or upgrade my life as per my current financial situation and live without so much bullshit stess from your partner. Thx Ramit you are truely doing society a bigggg favour

[@jjdub35]

They live in a different world. Our wedding was 30 people in a backyard and cost way too much...like $4000 including the dress.

[@martata8404]

I see some viewers complaining about hosting wealthy couples, claiming they do not relate to them. I like hearing about rich people money problems ! Most of us, if we are not wealthy, do not have wealthy friends or family. If we do, money topic is avoided as fire, it is a huge taboo. Wealthy people avoid talking deeply about money at all cost, and their unwealthy friends / acquaintances are afraid to bring the subject for many reason but one of them not wanting the wealth gap become an obstacle and alienator and the identity of the relationship. If not for those incredibly brave and unusual couples we wouldn't have a chance to witness them being super honest and vulnerable. about their finances and feelings about them. It is always good to learn from people who are ahead of you, to see their perspective and fears so you can start imagining if you would resemble them if you were to find yourself in their shoes and learn ahead of time what their mistakes So bring them all on !

[@ramitsethi]

Beautiful comment. Thank you for watching and sharing your perspective (which I agree with)

[@mrs.quills7061]

It’s not their income, it’s their entitlement throughout this episode. He’s had other wealthy guests on here that aren’t like this at all.