We Play with Hearthstone Mana | Commander Clash S17 E08

[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

So the rules for this game were: you can't ramp in any way, your deck has no lands, but you get an Everywhere land each turn. We also decided to avoid thing that explicitly abuse the Everywhere lands (like a Domain deck, for example).

[@AdolfCritler210]

It would be interesting to have the 3 card hand(max 10) with specific mulligan and max 10 mana. Would have made card draw useful

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

I would have kept the mana colors. Let the player choose a basic land every turn.

[@k9commander]

I'm surprised Crim didn't go with Soul of Windgrace. Land destruction is op in this version. The ability to steal your opponents' destroyed lands is even better.

[@MrMartinSchou]

I would have adapted it a bit. Still no ramp, but have a land library made up of everywhere tokens. That way you get around the discard to hand size, because you can always draw one land per turn when you need it.

[@angsty_creator]

What about smeagol? First ring tempt, kill some one turn 5

[@wedgearyxsaber]

It all makes sense: commander clash is why the everything token is so expensive.

[@alexkulis7295]

As soon as I saw them playing individual Everywhere tokens, I had the same thought

[@lesternomo6578]

fr tho the tokens and overlord of the hauntwoods seem way too expensive its 3 mana ramp!! (i need a copy for my esix deck)

[@TuffLP]

Well you should've started with 3 cards in hand like hearthstone in this lol, hand size in MTG is only this large cause of lands

[@skykur]

Game would have gone a lot different

[@kyleyoobs1218]

“This week on commander clash, Crim doesn’t get to play this week.”

[@RyanEglitis]

Threat assessment fails again

[@modernphilosophicaldiscour3558]

Winota gets a huge buff in this format because you dont whiff on lands

[@JonaxII]

"Reanimator would be busted", he said, right after winning with a patriarch's bidding. For which he tutored and immediately discarded a chasm guide two turns earlier.

[@TeaHauss]

Ok, so now we need a Duel Masters mana game where you play your spells upside down (as lands, no real lands allowed) to tap for its colors

[@mauriciocostin4151]

Sometimes I don´t understand the threat assessment at the table. The literal only way Phil doesn´t lose is by letting Crim use the disk. So he decides to kill Crim?

[@maxwellpep]

Crim is there down in the dirt trying to keep everyone in check, putting his own board state behind, doing gods work. They take it personally and kill him for it, then die immediately on the clap back

[@marshallbrenha7869]

Right? I was thinking the same thing

[@another505]

yup... i dont get it either. And it didnt make sense for entertainment as seth already won last game.

[@ipsyop]

dude ! right ? seth gains 24 life and Phil immediately said "now I gotta kill Crim!" and I'm sitting here like HUH????

[@lesternomo6578]

you gotta understand the only crime that is unforgivable to phil is wiping his board :P

[@DCode504]

Crim: Isn't dead. Table: and I took that personally.

[@OhSarcasticOne]

Look what happens when he draws lands!

[@kaemonbonet4931]

He's too powerful, we have to stop him

[@JimmyJames-om2uw]

Seth: we have to remove that... so I can win next turn. Richard, "definitely".

[@MakeVarahHappen]

Insane that Phil killed crim when he had the out.

[@TheQuarrelsomeOne]

Phil killing Crim in game two doesn't make much sense to me, but so it goes.

[@superfrans100]

all the complaining about teferi, yet winota is totally fine lmao

[@jaysonking4055]

Teferi says no to your opponents Winota just wins Although it seems irrational playing against anything that can be perceived as stax, is very frustrating For the player, perceiving it as stacks

[@superfrans100]

@jaysonking4055 I just think that if you complain about a teferi yet try to say Winota is okay in any capacity, we kinda need to re-evaluate our stances lmao

[@funkyjam175]

Rather than the Everywhere lands I think what might work better is having each player choose a basic land of any type on their upkeep and put that one into play. Otherwise every deck ought to just be 5 colour good stuff.

[@davidwipperfurth8465]

I'd love to see a rematch in this format now that you all have more information about how the format works; come back with new game plans.

[@mrbelbobaggins8959]

I saw the title and thought Rarran was going to be here. I can’t wait to see him and Crim play though.

[@DCode504]

Same😂

[@streiifi]

i really hope hes doing a collab with goldfish group soon. his collab videos are awesome

[@mrbelbobaggins8959]

@@streiifi him and Crim are going to be on CGB’s channel with Voxy soon. They’re playing precons I believe.

[@fredadore]

I can't believe Seth is playing my 2016 Modern Deck this week

[@codyfritz3080]

Samish here, but I didn't see no Halimar Excavators/ self mill and Return to Ranks/Rally the Ancients; that build has to be broken in this "format".

[@SorcerySpeedConcede]

My brother and I have done "hero powers" magic. Choose a 1 cost instant or sorcery to add to your command zone. It now costs 2 and can be used once per turn cycle. If we were to play it again I'd probably add the cost can't be modified, it counts as a typeless card, and only on your turns (to help combat the really broken interactions with a guaranteed spell each turn).

[@electric_dream_machine]

8:48 I guess you can say Expedition Envoy is just a Savannah Allyons 😂

[@RyanEglitis]

Crim: Why am I getting punched? Phil: Because you made me punch you last game and I lost.

[@CodeNamR]

I wouldn't mind you guys trying it one more time in the future with the experience you gained from this game. No rush but I think it would be neat.

[@lukecraig4984]

Honestly would love to see more of this, I think seeing the deckbuilding is way more unique for this

[@Midas_Rex]

This reminds me of the TCG Force of Will, it died off in my town due to lack of players but it sort of played like this. You had a separate deck for your mana (called stones in that game) and it had a built in commander-like mechanic into the deck building where your deck had a "ruler". The game was fun, but unfortunately didn't get off the ground here.

[@allenridenour1826]

Man, same in my area. I still have all the decks from when it was starting up also

[@zacharymccutcheon8607]

turn 3 propaganda, turn 4 ghostly prison, turn 5 sphere of safety, turn 6 collective restraint. Good luck boys!

[@acetraker1988]

Add Tutors for said cards

[@bradcallahan3546]

It’s almost like the game isn’t designed to use inferior mechanics

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

@@bradcallahan3546ok what mono red goblins there like 60 goblins that are 1 mana

[@110019a]

i was sad i did not see crim or richard decks do much

[@denniswman]

"A LOT" The editor just gave up on the combat damage at the end 🤣

[@SilverCyan]

good ol' Coat of Arms making math too much of a burden

[@flyingby3703]

It probably would make sense to start the game with only 4-5 cards to make up some slots that would be filled by lands normally. It would also reduce the amount of discard in the beginning.

[@Elbleino]

I agree with Richards analysis for this version of clash, and I think another rule should have been added where your creatures can attack other creatures, as that's part of how the mana balances out. Your removal is removal, but so are your creatures.

[@Kryptnyt]

Does HS also have a 7 creature / enchantment/ artifact board limit?

[@simic0racle157]

In hearthstone you also can't mix classes(colors)

[@velphidrow]

At that point you're not playing a different format but a fundamentally different gamr

[@RazorDevil1]

game 2 kingmake but game 1 was pure taking advantage of the discard for turn rule. yall shouldve started at 3 cards in hand because seth filling his graveyard for free and reanimating was kinda bullshit

[@platinumangel7446]

I liked the way Force of Will tcg used mana. Tap you commander in the command zone to get a land from a seperate deck.

[@johnpelphrey]

I imagine this will just be super fair!

[@Asian_Caleb]

I’ve been playing some hearthstone lately and as a long time magic player honestly it’s pretty nice not having to worry about losing games to flood/screw.

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

Yeah, but it feels like you're playing portal magic, because you basically can't interact with your opponent.

[@Asian_Caleb]

@@Arctanis-vt3hl I completely agree with that, it can be really frustrating not being able to interact with my opponent but honestly I feel less frustrated by that than losing a game just because the cards weren’t cooperating with me. Idk I’m split on hearthstone but it’s a nice break after getting stomped on by mono red etc lol

[@Gorbgorbenson]

I played Hearthstone 5 years ago and loved playing Pirate Rogue in wild. I came back yesterday only to find it's arguably even stronger now than it was when I played, and I dont even have an optimal deck lmao.

[@Asian_Caleb]

@@Gorbgorbenson that’s awesome! I also love the new player experience with hearthstone, the loaner decks you get to play and keep one of actually feel like real meta decks and not just token offerings like what arena gives you.

[@Gorbgorbenson]

@Asian_Caleb Yeah, I think the only negative of Hearthstone over Arena is that commons and rares (their uncommons) are harder to acquire outside of cracking packs. Though card quality is higher at common and rare in hearthstone, it feels.

[@Aruxus]

Would love to see you guys play archenemy!!!

[@tylerbevilhymer9537]

I think this would format is a lot of fun, thanks for showing us! 1v1 might be a really good way to do this and to make 1v1 commander work

[@Icarus_inc]

I love when you guys have fun with the format

[@JamesCooley-q8b]

Why did Phil kill Crim and kingmake Seth? Crazy suboptimal play considering crim had the wrath to save them on board

[@GlennTheSadMarinersFan]

Yeah.. kind of made game 2 suck.

[@metatron8578]

I really like Phil, but sometimes his decision making is just so terrible, takes me a bit out of it (though in reality maybe it was late and he just wanted the game to go out on a bang instead of everyone needing to rebuild).

[@ipsyop]

they do this constantly to specifically crim A LOT lol.. and it's so fucking weird like I don't get it.

[@brianarsuaga5008]

I've played a version of this where you can play any of your cards face down as an Everywhere (Ie, all cards are mdfc everywheres). You don't discard to hand size near as much, and it creates at least a little play where you MIGHT not have a card you want to play as a land.

[@connormohs6046]

Love these creative ideas and such. Hope for more in the future!

[@ps-zs3wt]

I have been building my decks with 20% crim logic and 80% richard logic and I am stomping my playgroup. I think most of Richards seemingly crazy takes are actually just correct. And crims playstyle is the most fun and cool imo.

[@insidious]

This would be a fun one to return to, since it seems everyone learned a lot about how this particular restriction will play out and it might be pretty different next time.

[@Kryptnyt]

Oh the self-control to not Charbelcher or Winds of Abandon or Mind Grind or anything like that

[@KVGKQuake]

Play Mirko Vosk in the command zone, then all the things possible give him haste

[@Kryptnyt]

@@KVGKQuake It might be too telegraphed

[@KVGKQuake]

@@Kryptnyt true. Probably just run so kinds of surveil and scry to find that stuff

[@jonrussell2274]

Very satisfying watching a week with 0 ramp. When the game is nearly always, who ramps the best and fastest either wins or becomes a threat and the whole narrative of the game is ramping...it's very refreshing when everyone is on an even playing field mana wise, let's the focus of the game be about what you are doing...and complaining about having no mana.

[@RyanEglitis]

It was still that, it just was who could play more free stuff instead of cast it with mana

[@al8188]

"The taxing is not part of Hearthstone." I haven't played in a while but... IIIIII SEEEE YOUUUUUUU

[@qarsiseer]

I’d love to see this going full Hearthstone: starting hand size 3, max 10 cards, max 10 everywhere lands

[@Dizek]

Each deck gets 10 face down basic lands on the battlefield, reveal one each turn, a land search lets you reveal a color of your choice, that way you won't end with 5 color goodstuff everywhere

[@Dizek]

Better add 10 lands, but following commander rules

[@joshuahampton6141]

I don't think the "no ramp" is a Hearthstone limitation. That game has ramp. Now, no instant speed? THAT'S Hearthstone-y.

[@boschboehrlie]

T3feri made Crim's opponents play at Hearthstonecery speed. :)

[@ComfyDents]

This is a great theme to experiment with! 😊

[@robertgreen6499]

OO, could be fun trying so many different ways to play with different mana systems. like how Force of Will TCG had its stone deck, WoW TCG had the any card is your mana, Duel Masters had anything was a resource but only made the colors the card was. Just love the idea to see how the game would work.

[@jamescooley5241]

Seth with the fierce guardianship!!! You were destined to destroy the sith not join them!!!

[@TheBigPenguu]

Winota is doubly powerful in this format BECAUSE there is no land or ramp chaff that can blank an entire trigger. Absolutely nuts in this format. This should be its own format, honestly. Cut the card count down to 60, keep the singleton rule and create a separate ban list. And instead of using actual lands to keep track of your mana count, just use dice, and spin down as you use the mana.

[@pogeman2345]

Crim: "The taxing is not part of Hearthstone." Me:*flashbacks to every major tax effect card in the game*

[@Spirited_skiing]

This was really interesting to watch!!

[@TNTColonel]

This was pretty funny to watch, hopefully we get to see it again someday, especially now that you guys have some experience with it and can improve deckbuilding. ... Winota is such a messed up card x-x

[@travisbrandt8663]

Hate how you guys kinda bullied crim from enjoying his this week

[@velphidrow]

They always do

[@onepunman2744]

Ooo cant wait to watch this, thanks for the commander video :) ❤

[@darktendrill8661]

so happy to see my favorite creature type shine :D GO ALLIES!

[@adamkoudsi535]

I would love to see another epsiode of this espcially with this expiernce in mind with deck buidling and maybe start with less cards and ban reanimator

[@cloaking111]

Only 10 minutes in, but if we're not seeing a blood moon this game I will be very disappointed

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

Mono red goblins with blood moon

[@Dark-Pikachu1]

They 1 mana ones

[@Laevus2321]

Wait... Did Seth just cast his Commander? On curve?! NO WAY! What are these crazy rules doing to him! (please keep doing this alternate rules :D )

[@Roll-Penut]

I'm only halfway through so idk of they suggest this, but starting with 5 cards seems super fair in this format

[@UmoLoco]

Why did Phil kill Crim? To save on time because it was game 2? I don't understand.

[@Spooooky_Mulder]

Seth playing Ally's makes me remember my first deck I built was Ally's. I always wanted to bring them back I mostly used harabaz druid to tap for a bunch of mana.

[@CopticKalnor]

I've consider this as a concept, but I think having a separate deck of your 40 lands and you can choose to draw from one or the other would be an interesting concept.

[@Athanasia8818]

Very nice to watch, if this is done again maybe starting at 5 cards in hand makes more sense?

[@jozefkeresturi2139]

Honestly I liked it. I feel like you would need a couple of more clashes to truly find out the nuances. Can't durdle gotta interect.

[@YBladeY]

Ok, serious thought. Could this solve some Cube problems too?! But you choose a basic, not an everywhere land

[@velphidrow]

That's not a problem in cube

[@andreasjonstrup9885]

I thought this was really funny, good to see less durdling in commander

[@MrMikee7773]

Deck building idea: either the same commander or the same colors, draft from all cards to 100. There are no duplicates amongst the 4 decks. So no two BoP, etc.

[@methmeth]

You guys should have had the same starting hand size as hearthstone as well. Games without land systems usually start with 3-4 cards in hand. In normal magic, half your deck is lands, so you effectively have less gas in hand, so you start with 7. You guys essentially started the game with a 14 card hands. That would obviously help the aggro decks so much

[@aryst0krat]

Convoke and cascade would be so helpful in this

[@fredt1983]

I miss moto sometimes, don't have as much information available to us. But thankfully Crim shows us his hand every 2 minutes 😼

[@highshelf]

When Seth's about to win but the time says your only half way through the video: "oh, richard has a fog"

[@crimsonking905]

This makes me think a momir episode would be sweet!

[@explodingbarrel2]

You gotta try this again. I have no friends to play this weirdness with so this would be fun.

[@reinerzufall2070]

Tbh anti mana screw magic could be great as well. Simply have a pile of basic lands in the middle. And whenever you draw a land you may instead replace it with a basic land from the pile. Ofc to keep ramp instead,searching for a land would search the pile. You could still run lands if you like to run hermit druid but fixes mana completely.

[@totakekeslider3835]

Wow, I love this concept, lol.

[@signspace13]

I had an idea where we could have a hearthstone like format with nonbasic lands. A seperate land deck, at the start of the game you draw 5 cards, and have a regular London mulligan starting at 5, and then you draw two lands from your Lands deck. In your draw step each turn, you choose whether you draw from your Lands deck or your spells deck. Spells that search for a land search the lands deck, and spell tutors the spells deck, when you scry or surveil, you can choose which deck tomdo it on, shuffling one deck does not require shuffling the other. You still have a minimum play set of 60 cards, its up to you how you want to split them. I don't think this would work very well in 1v1, as land variance is about 20% of the game, honestly, and this would honestly encourage people to play as few lands as possible. Land destruction would actually be more acceptable in this format, I think, as it would punish a small lands deck and the garuntee of being able to replace the lands is much more forgiving. Would be interested to see someone try it out. I don't have the paper decks necessary to really do it.

[@patrice2847]

Everyone should start with 3 cards. Last player should have the coin* (lotus petal) it would make game last longer less card selection.😊

[@TheSunrider18]

I actually have that ally deck built. It’s pretty fun.

[@jacobhholt]

Btw, four player Hearthstone alone would be next, next level!

[@maximp9482]

I'm a big fan of the Star Wars Unlimited mana system, might be fun to try in a mtg commander game.

[@PaulMFDouglas]

Looked really fun

[@rainafallenhaze9191]

You could have committed more to Hearthstone ruling by starting with 3 cards in hand and max hand size is 10! That way you do not have to discard down to hand so much.

[@the1bmc1]

The justice strike Phil discardes would have been good against Richard’s Phyrexian obliterator!

[@argonnas2]

Phill killing the table again

[@LostLandsLife]

I wanna see more of this.

[@VRanger100]

I guess this was the solution to fix Crim's land screw problem without him playing Green XD

[@tankdempsey1818]

I think a way to make this a bit more interesting would be that you can play basic lands from outside the game rather than everywhere tokens. Otherwise there is 0 reason to not just be 5 color pip pile and then you also don't have to ban domain

[@ryangainey94]

Talking about this like an aggro format... I think Stax and pillowfort might compete especially if you're able to abuse things like cascade in conjunction or to have things that aren't considered "ramp" but can untap lands...

[@skykur]

Curvestone is real!

[@alexandercurnell1142]

It's frankly incredible how often Crim will have the smallest board with no immediate threats and the entire table will go "we need to start getting Crim's stuff off the board". Meanwhile there's an obliterator, an ever growing army of tokens, and a building mass of allies. Edit: I just don't get anyone's mindset this episode. Why would you kill Crim before he could wrath when Seth just popped off like that? What was everyone so concerned about?

[@thatepicwizardguy]

the commander clash grang is notoriously bad at threat assessment

[@beanofknowledge2125]

That's what he get's for never saying "Clash On"

[@zenithquasar4319]

​@@thatepicwizardguyI don't know. They seem pretty average to me if you compare it to every pod I've been in

[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

I don't know, Innkeeper's Talent with Oath of Teferi is a pretty scary set up in a superfriends deck. If Crim sweeper the board there I think he's almost guaranteed to win.

[@kylegonewild]

@@beanofknowledge2125 The real reason

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

I think it would be even more intersting to run this with the Hearthstone much more restrictive starting hand

[@jboveda]

I think if you play Hearthstone mana, you should start with five cards like Hearthstone. The max hand size can stay at 7, but this way you don't auto-discard the first turn or perhaps two in the game.

[@redtitan9120]

According to Cardmarket price trend they spent atleast 81,72 Euro (or 89.43 dollars) on Everywhere tokens.

[@shinobu-39]

Omg Yu-gi-oh next. Like the others suggested, following the hand size of the game it's inspired by is prolly helpful. Enchantments are field spells so only one at a time and playing a new one destroys the old one. Instants and sorceries need to be set before activating. Instants can technically be flipped right away. Sorceries need to wait a full turn maybe. Maybe summoning 1 to 4 cmc creatures is broken but maybe it's fine since the max creature count is 5 and you'd need a sac outlet if ever. 5 cmc above stuff follow the summon rules where you gotta sac a certain number of creatures to do so

[@MrRockguy84]

Crim activated his walker twice, Richard pulled him up on it but it still happened anyway

[@MTGGoldfishCommander]

Did he have Oath of Teferi at that point?

[@chris7372]

That Mockingbird copying Winota was soooo wack

[@lomas2476]

Shadowverse Evolve is pretty close to mtg but with hearthstone mana but the opening hand is 4 to compensate for the max hand size problem

[@ElmoTheRed]

I am not sure if it still the case but you used to be able to ramp in hearthstone. I think this would have been so much better with ramp as it could not be land ramp. The way this was played out anything that buffs your board is killer. Slivers would have been pretty busted.

[@velphidrow]

There where *very* few ramp spells in hearthstone

[@larsfilenius6077]

Threat assessment was really bad this weak idk what everyone was thinking

[@velphidrow]

It usually is. Tommer and Crim are the only 2 with good threat assessment