We're Designing a New Bikepacking Bike-Part 2-Pinion Or Shimano Alfine?

[@duzer]

Looks like we’ll do a Pinion version and a Shimano Alfine 11 version. Is everyone happy?

[@theoilingchief]

I think this is the best option.

[@bulmarobernal2106]

Make it pinion gear, more power.

[@mildthing]

lol I guess that was the only sensible thing to do

[@arndtbc]

Yes!!!!

[@melj646]

Loaded question I think it’s a great idea

[@billwilliams9527]

Duzer, at the ripe old age of 91, I'm still following the 'master rider'. I strive most days to reach 15/20 miles per day on my Priority Brilliant, love that machine, just bulletproof. I will, unfortunately, have to take some off for a left hip revision, probably the cup replacement. I dread the time off the bicycle Blessings.

[@Frostbiker]

Good luck! I'm on the mend, too, and can't wait to be back on the saddle.

[@FrankF-vp4pt]

You give me inspiration at almost 61 to keep riding! Success, blessings and a quick healing on your upcoming care.

[@Ignash]

Best of wishes to you! Inspiration for many of us!

[@billwilliams9527]

@@Ignash Thank you, thank you very much.

[@jarperhones5364]

I love the idea of a relatively affordable Pinion gearbox bike! Since you can't throw a pinion system on any bike, it'll be a delight to just get basic, quality, no nonsense parts, and to not have to pay $3,000+ for the feature. Suspension corrected fork is a good call!

[@duzer]

It’s coming!!

[@magnus9165]

Read what I have to say about stuff Jarperhones, I agree with you.

[@aaronsagen692]

Right tool for the job. If the Alfine does not have low enough gearing, I think it is Pinion all the way.

[@tedbellWRV]

Alfine 11-spd hub from a longtime owner's perspective. I liked the Alfine 11-spd for what it is. A hub for a city bike riding in flat terrain. As far as gearing down the Alfine hub, here's my experience. When I owned the bike with the Shimano Alfine 11-spd, I lived in hilly Seattle and I was keenly aware of the minimum 1:1.8 gear ratio, or the minimum low gear-inch limit Shimano imposes. I made a decision to violate Shimano's 1:1.8 ratio and installed a 39T chainring and 24T cog with a 1.6 ratio. (BTW, 24T cogs are the largest ever made that fit the Alfine, and are hard to find - they were actually a SRAM cog, but made to the same fit standard.) The gear-inches with the 24T and 39T were 22.2 to 90.8 with 26x2.125 (54-559) tires. I'm built like an NFL lineman, so load-wise, the bike was climbing hills with the equivalent of a 225 lb rider with a heavily loaded bike. The Alfine did stand up to the load and did not fail over several thousand miles. The gear-inches were still not as low as Cyclingabout recommends (18 gear-inches), and he is totally right for hilly terrain. I would have preferred to go down to 18 gear-inches myself. I think the Shimano gear ratio limit is extremely conservative, and I would not be too worried going down to about 20 gear-inches based on my experience, however, you will violate your warranty in doing so. That could be a problem, because the Shimano Alfine hub will fail on a bikepacking bike as noted below. The Alfine hub is an oil leaker. At about 2,000 miles the hub leaked out all of its oil and you will need to service the hub with new gaskets and seals. (The Shimano Nexus hubs are lubricated with grease, and don't have this issue.) Unfortunately, few bike shops are experienced in servicing an Alfine hub, so the oil leak problem will cause owners service issues over the life of the bike. Alfine hub owners will need to learn to change oil. It's not too hard, but you'll need to get an oil change kit with the syringe, tubing and hub port fitting. The Rohloff IGH leaks oil too, but it does not need much oil and Rohloffs have proven themselves with many, many miles. We have two Rohloff bikes with over 15,000 miles on each hub and they still work great. Most Rohloff owners have reduced the oil they put in the hub at oil changes and this greatly reduces oil leaking. Rohloff has advised the U.S. Rohloff service centers this is acceptable practice. Other issues I experienced with the Alfine hub include a failure of the disc brake rotor flange. Unbelievably, the flange securing the rotor sheared off the hub body when I had to make a low speed "panic" stop. A car ran a stop sign and I hit the brakes hard at about 8-10 mph. The rotor sheared clean off the hub body. There was now no operable rear brake - the rotor spun freely on the hub body. Wow! That would be a problem on a bikepacking trip. Shimano did replace the hub under warranty. The Alfine is affected by cold weather. For warm temperatures, the Alfine shifts crisply. But, at temperatures of about 32F and below, shifts slow down until you've ridden a few miles and the hub warms up. You will have to pause peddling power for a second longer when shifting until the hub warms up. This does not happen on our Rohloff hubs. Finally, with cable shifting, I did find the Alfine 11-spd to be finicky and must be finely adjusted frequently to shift cleanly. Once you learn how to adjust the shifter, it's not too hard. It's actually easier than a derailleur adjustment for most people to learn. But you will require frequent adjustments with the Alfine due to cable stretch - adjustments much more frequent than a derailleur bike. If this becomes and issue, I suppose people could try an Archer electronic shift conversion to reduce cable length. Perhaps Shimano offers an electronic shift Alfine too?

[@JeffRevell]

I'm wondering if the people who are advocating for an Alfine drive have actually ever done a tour on a fully loaded bike. Honestly at the end of the day, it's all about the low gear inches when you are moving a rig up a 6-10% grade. I don't have an internal drive on any of my bikes but I always look to get the lowest gear inches I can on my bikes even on rides that aren't categorized as hilly. I have not taken any tout that didn't have some steep stuff at some point in time, including so-called flat rides like the Erie Canal trail. I think that getting a Pinion down to a $2K range would still be a huge benefit to anyone looking to get into touring/bikepacking. Right now there isn't a Pinion bike available that is under $3K so having a capable Pinion bike that is a thousand dollars lower is still a huge win.

[@shalakabooyaka1480]

People bike tour on tall bikes, single speeds, hand bikes etc etc. I think the Alfine will be perfectly fine for a lot of people.

[@tedbellWRV]

I've owned bikes with a Shimano Alfine 11-spd, Shimano Nexus 8-spd, Rohloff 14-spd and Enviolo "380%" (besides derailleurs of course). The Alfine hub has no low end. I cannot understand why it could be any kind of consideration at all. The torque limits Shimano requires do not allow low gear-inches. The Shimano Alfine hub works OK in a city bike intended for flat topography, but I could not recommend it for any kind of touring with hills. The Pinion or Rohloff are durable and can handle low gearing. The Enviolo has various issues from efficiency to durability concerns.

[@Breakdown0]

Second that and what @tedbellWRV saying. I have done my first bike tour on a Shimano Nexus 8 gear (308% of spread). While I couldn't even spin out my bike at 38km/h downhill, I had huge trouble with even low inclines. Nobody really needs to go that fast but climbs were hell. Most importantly though: even the flats were hard. You couldn't find the right cadence with these huge gear jumps without either putting in significant more power or letting off and losing speed significantly. Couple that with long climbs of 3-5% and it was pretty challenging. Now the 11 speed version might be better than this. But the pinion with possibility to upgrade is the way to go

[@poligyula]

@JeffRevell: "I'm wondering if the people who are advocating for an Alfine drive have actually ever done a tour on a fully loaded bike." Here i am. I have a "BULLS Urban 11S" bike which has CDX belt drive and an Alfine 11 hub with 46T-24T cogs. This aspect ratio not usual, but Bulls created this bike with these cogs. I am sure they checked it with Shinamo. I bought this bike used and I drived about 15 000 km (9300 miles) since then. I can climb even 16% steep roads with it. I attended 2 times the "Balaton Bike Derby” wich is an bikepacking event. I finished about 400 km (250 miles) route with 4000 m (13 125 feet) elevation. The route 48% asphalt and 38% unpaved.

[@ImJeffRoe]

The priority 600 is a pinion bike for under 3k

[@honghuynh3573]

Please add a 2X Small for riders who are 5' tall with 26.5" inseam in this new design. Priority's smallest size excludes many women who are 5'4" and shorter who want to purchase an adventure bike.

[@thezonemtb]

Yes! My wife is 4'10" and currently Priority is not an option for her.

[@tomrussell7899]

@@thezonemtbI agree as well. I love 650B wheels. They are way more comfortable with my short legs.

[@galenanightfire]

I feel your pain! I have been nagging Priority for years to make a bike for shorter riders. However my appeals fall on deaf ears. Perhaps if Ryan ever gets a short girlfriend, he will take up our cause 😂

[@MikeSuding-]

I know it's already been decided to have both but my 2 cents: I rode my Priority 600 (not X) across the USA on rails-to-trails route and Colorado portion of Tour Divide route and it did very well. I also rode a Spot Acme with Alfine 11 from Seattle to San Francisco and once or twice per day slipped out of gear when under load (like Eddie said...I probably was above the torque rating). Regarding gear inches, I agree with Ali that it's good to have 18-20 gear inches for a fully loaded touring bike.

[@dougmckinney7575]

Love the designs! I have 6 bikes including a Surly ECR and Surly Ogre that I bikepack on. Both with ridged forks. Even though I ride the outback in Arizona, I don’t need a suspension fork. I love the Pinion with ridged fork optioned bike, and if it comes in under $2500, I will be adding it to my stable. Keep up the great work and cheers!

[@sometimesoonfan]

Same bikes as you, Imagine the pinion on a ridgid fork with eyelids like the orgre would be a dream!

[@martinschwartz7342]

I say three bikes. The two aforementioned candidates and also a bike packing bike for us old people who don’t have the strength or stamina of young people like you, Ryan. I would like to see Priority build a 600xE. A 600x with the new Pinion gearbox/ electric motor combination unit, the Pinion MGU. Older people need that and usually can better afford it.

[@duzer]

That’s a good suggestion…I’ll talk to the team about it.

[@gilfolsom5980]

@@duzerI totally agree with the three bike option. Even better, why not add the 18:speed Pinion so the jumps between gears are smaller on the 600xE?

[@wailaihu]

Or a titanium one. Young people with grand ideas and empty wallets talks about bikes, but older people with money buys bikes.

[@martinschwartz7342]

@@gilfolsom5980 I don’t think Pinion makes the MGU electric motor/gearbox in an 18 speed. In the regular Pinion gearbox the 18speed is another thousand dollars.

[@robincurwood]

​@@duzerI put that to the guy's at least 2 years ago. And I was effectively told to go elsewhere. As they don't make such a bike. I did talk about their ebike with suspension forks, but no.To be fair I do live in the UK,and was willing to put up with the fact that there would be little to no warranty.

[@mlake07]

0:00 If you need to save money...AND have low gearing you just need to go back to old 9x3 derailleur bike. My Surly Troll has a low gear of 14 inches. I've ridden it on four year long rides through the Andes, the Pamirs and the Himalayas and good sections of the Great Divide and the Baja divide....mostly loaded up to 100 lbs. Never had a problem with the Shimano XT drive train. My Troll also is an older model which is suspension corrected so I can use a Fox fork for routes like the Baja. Nice. I can also...if I wanted to upgrade...put on a Rohloff hub though I've not felt the need... Troll also accepts tires up to 3"....great for sandy routes...

[@odinata]

Lol 100% agree! Experience the magic of bicycle travel....not the magic of going out and buying more stuff.

[@crafty_matt]

I think it's a bit insane how much the gear range on modern bikes often sucks, just because front derailleurs are so out of fashion. The pinion is great, of course, but the Shimano hubs aren't, and my cheapo 90s MTB with its primitive 3x8 system has a 540% range (better than even the super fancy 1x stuff) on parts that are basically dirt cheap and far more tolerant of mud/etc than 11 and 12 speed systems. I also think there's a lot of peace of mind that comes from bikepacking/touring with a bike that doesn't cost $3000+.

[@daveebert7747]

The sentiment of start where you are at should not be lost. To encourage people to get outside and do it we say use what you got, it doesn't need to be perfect. How many of us started with a bike with less then 20 gear inches for effortless climbing, probably close to zero. Pushing is part of bikepacking, I'm very glad you guys are making both.

[@rah4981]

Drop bar bike with triple crank 10 speed and bar end friction shifters, both shifters on friction. Is the only bikepacking/ touringbike I will ever need. Gives really wide gearing and so easy to maintain, the gears works perfectly all the time.

[@BMad-we6qf]

Eddie: I appreciate your explanation of the torque issue on gearing the Alfine too low. We put a Nuvinci 360 on our tandem recumbent trike and broke it within 20 minutes of getting it from our ike shop when we powered up a steep hill. Unfortunately we did not discover the damage until we were on a bike packing trip and 250 miles from home. This is so exciting. Thank you, guys!

[@phaedrawhite3746]

So excited you’re doing both. I am looking forward to be one of the few getting the affordable the priority pinion bike This is gonna be great since I am new to bike packing

[@willreasoner4384]

I wish Priority would put on Jones Bars on their bikes. OR a Priority Brand new design handle bar that's Jones Bar like. The 600 alroad with those would be FANTASTIC !!!

[@markmartello]

29+ (up to 3.25" tires). There is little to no downside, and on a ridge fork bike the extra tire volume is a huge plus. It's also really great for soft sand. And if you want to run 700x38c touring bike tires, you can do that too. And I agree, you MUST get the gear inches down to at least 20.

[@Paulklampeeps]

Would that bring the bb height too low if you put 700x38c on a 29+ bike? Thanks!

[@duckninja9349]

I'd love the pinion frame and fork to be premium and the rest of the build practical - mechanical disc, etc. Good enough for out the door, but allow folks to upgrade the bike over time incrementally.

[@jonvanderwal4532]

Offer a Pinion frame set. Then people can add whatever parts their budget allows.

[@PaulHamon]

yes. 100%

[@marcwinkels9328]

That would be awesome!

[@peterbedford2610]

Good idea

[@joshbennett6197]

^this! Budget bike builds require compromises somewhere. Let the buyer (builder) decide where.

[@simonstucki]

in theory a great idea, but once you build up your bike even with very very low spec components it will be expensive as you pay a lot more for components if you buy them individually...

[@finkmj53]

Thanks to Ryan, Eddie, and Dave! It was very helpful to my cycling knowledge and mindset to be a part of this process. It has helped me decide to keep my 600X as well as proceed with the purchase of the 600HXT. The 600X is excellent for bikepacking almost everywhere but if I want to take on the GDMBR or the Colorado Trail the HXT will be the better choice. -Mr. Money1Brains0

[@duzer]

Great to hear! Happy trails, my friend

[@jasonfreyer9888]

Wow! I’m impressed y’all said my funky German last name on the first shot! Secondly, man, I feel like I’m a part of this thing! Thank you for that! Sign me up for a “go most places” bike packing bike!

[@kathogan6712]

Because of this new venture of yours, I just bought the Hot Sauce and hopefully by the time these bikes are on the market, I'll be ready to upgrade!

[@mckaypaterson2519]

I bought a Merida XC-Trail a few years ago. I have started to adapt some parts on the bike based on my riding in various environments. I would say have modular bike parts that you can start building on based on the Priority standard frame. A rider can gradually place add-ons suited to riding requirements and experiences. As an example I am looking to add bar ends and grips on the handlebars to overcome pains in my hands. I will also get a revised bike fit at the next service.

[@greghunt6183]

It's good to hear them talk about a lower standover. I'd already have a priority if I could safely stand over the frame. ESPECIALLY if it was Pinion drive..

[@davidrowe8747]

Coming late to the discussion, but have enjoyed watching the two videos and it is good to see the power of KZbin for doing market research! Ryan, you mentioned the idea that someone with a limited budget could purchase the Alfine bike and then later on when they have a bigger budget, they could buy the pinion model. Another option might be to purchase the Alfine model and then at a later date fit a Rohloff IGH and save money on a new frame (maybe? Does it depend on the rear triangle?)

[@mildthing]

Honestly I think it'd be best for newbies to just buy something around $600-800 and try it out first before spending a ton of money on a superbike. I've seen quite a few people with $1500 bikes as coat racks. Where I live, SW Pa, there's miles and miles of rail trails to ride on for backpacking and they certainly wouldn't need that huge gear range. But good luck. It's a laudable goal, for sure

[@nathanbunnell]

Lol, we must be neighbors. I live in the same region. I enjoy those rail trails and climb the steep hills to and from work. I'm living out what you just suggested. Now that I've caught the biking but, I'm longing for some lower gears. I've upgraded my very basic Trek about as far as I can at this point for commuter/bikepacking purposes. I can really see the value in a pinion drive from a weight carrying and hill climbing standpoint.

[@mildthing]

@@nathanbunnell my granny gears on my oldest bike pretty much handles anything Pa can offer but we are in agreement. If I could afford the pinion, I would. Or rohloff. I almost bought the priority gravel with the alfine. Soooo close

[@mildthing]

@@nathanbunnell I’d also rather climb like a billygoat than run like a jackrabbit lol

[@johnpenziol8981]

Could not agree more with the direction your going. I would LOVE , LOVE, LOVE a Priority but can not afford it. Instead I built a bike packing bike out of my $700 Trek mountain bike. Would love a cheaper option. I do custom experience for a living and your strategy of crowd sourcing solutions is awesome! Let’s do this!!

[@MARandall85]

As someone whose job it is to help people buy the right bike and accessories for what they want to do I am SO HAPPY to hear that you will have the variety of both bikes. There are few things better than when a person comes back from a test ride and is stoked about how much fun it was and how the bike felt right for them. I'm certain both of these new bikes are going to be fantastic!

[@glenlyman2882]

I like that y'all got around to the idea of a rigid fork with a Pinion...for climbs and overall reliability. It may be worth looking into a longer wheel base on a rigid with a fork that has a longer offset (and maybe even room for 3"-4" plus/fat tires for low psi and cushion) so that the descents are safer for the rider, and could potentially take more gear/weight. With the Pinion gear range, the extra rubber shouldn't be a problem. I love the spirit of innovation at Priority! (Still waiting for the USA-made full suspension with the Pinion MGU)....

[@doug1219]

I can't imagine buying an Alfine/Gates system and NOT regretting it after the first hill on a loaded bike. I know it's out of scope for this project, but budget bikepackers should stick to traditional drivetrains.

[@sometimesoonfan]

I would not even buy it at this price point.

[@connellymark]

Pinion is a must - hope you guys continue using this! Please also consider making a fat bike with the pinion system:):)

[@barryschnoor7300]

You guys are beyond my abilities! I rode the Blue Ridge Parkway a few years ago on a $600 stock Trek FX 7.3. (Stock, except upgraded the tires to 35's with a little more aggressive tread than original 32 slicks.) My paniers were loaded and I had zero issues on the uphills...including the 13 mile climb up the James River Face. But it was all road riding. None of this rock scrambling stuff! I'm riding the same setup from Iowa to Maryland (in 12 days!) this summer.

[@vagabarnes6088]

I am so excited to see what Priority makes and the price point for both models. So happy to see how they are taking the viewers opinion and running with it.

[@stcroixpaintingpros5586]

The 600x is incredible. I have loved that bike since I purchased it lightly used. I am going to keep it until the wheels fall off or someone steals it because it's pretty good at everything. Not fast tho, I got a gravel bike for endurance training. With the low gears, I can pull a bike trailer with my 3 kids + bikes strapped on top. Nothing stops this bike from moving forward!

[@BMad-we6qf]

Your comment, and Ryan's, about the impact of additional weight is spot on.

[@catmandubh]

Go for ridged front fork. Saves cost, weight and is simpler. I use one and I find it perfectly ok.

[@MrGoodaches]

At about 16:45 my suggestion was addressed - gearing down an Alfine hub. I didn’t previously know the number but I totally get the explanation given. The explanation directly addresses the suggestion that I and apparently a few others made. Finding out that an Alfine hub isn’t recommended for anything lower than 27 gear inches makes me retract my suggestion to gear down the belt drive to the Alfine hub. When mountain bikes had lowest gears at 23ish inches they were troublesome and disappointing for carrying bikepacking loads. Any drivetrain components that don’t permit getting down to 18 gear inches should not be considered. Not overly concerned about getting above 85 gear inches. Riders need to be encouraged to spin at 80ish RPM to go all day without toasting their legs. Besides, if a loaded bike is going more than 18MPH it’s because of gravity - doesn’t matter what top gearing the bike has.

[@castle228]

Wow, what an amazing endeavor by Priority to create two bikes to give us options! So cool!

[@markifi]

build a bike around a 451 rear tyre? race bmx size. that's 19 gear inches without overloading the alfine hub. it would make the back end very lively

[@KevinRDunn]

Thanks for reading all the comments and taking it all in. I this was a great option to do both. Can't wait to see the new bikes

[@duzer]

Thanks for being part of this!

[@bigoledaddyz]

I love it. I live in Las Cruces and have a 29er Mountain bike that I use for getting up into the mountains. It travels well over the diverse ground cover like rock, sand and loose gravel. I'm definitely going to be purchasing an adventure bike from Priority in the future. I love the fact that I'll have a couple of options to choose from when it comes to the pinion gearing.

[@arndtbc]

The first comment was correct, give us pinion and the bones and we can add components or a suspension fork.

[@simonstucki]

this will not be a budget option, it will cost a lot more if you buy all the components individually (unless you have a lot of components laying around). but other than that a frameset option is always great, just not for budget bikes imho

[@datacurmudgeon]

Doing both was always the right answer!

[@duzer]

I agree!

[@timr2221]

Brilliant discussion. I’m personally excited to see some options to allow upgrade/customization by the user. I’m 6’, but ride 170mm cranks. I like the idea of starting with a rigid fork that I can swap for a lighter fork or go with a suspension fork. Thanks for such a cool project.

[@hbjtf]

I hear your pain, my friend. My two cents: use the Shimano with a Suntour spring front fork and market that bike as Priority’s Rails to Trail horse. ANY Rails to Trails path would be perfect for that combination. Rail beds don’t have the need for Pinion gearing and the fork “smooths out some of the bumps” for a quieter ride. Rails to Trails grows every year! There are now Ice Cream trails (2) in Pennsylvania!! Love you, Doooz!!!!

[@MrHoustonismydog]

I’m a e-biker now but have been really looking at bike packing, retiring next spring. This is great news, I’m definitely a pinion version guy it my weeks of research. Great news

[@joshlarue2838]

I do lots of serious off road bikepacking on a 75lb bike with 29 plus tire with a 28t upfront mated to a 50t on the back. If I find a climb to steep to pedal that up-it's quicker to walk it. I can't imagine anyone needs a lower gear then that. Having said that, I'd still go with pinion.

[@HuntersCyclingAdventures]

Also a Apollo with a pinon would be awesome

[@duzer]

I agree!

[@JohnMeyer1]

That's an instabuy for me. Pinion gravel bikes are all custom and stupid expensive. This bike would handle most of my riding.

[@sometimesoonfan]

I feel like that's pretty much what they are building!

[@steverap6960]

Agreed! I have an Apollo now and love it, but would love it more with the awesome range of the Pinion.

[@BMad-we6qf]

And more bosses, please ;)

[@DeadBeat_Dave]

HUGE props to you and Priority as a company to be like “F it, why not both?” After hearing customers. It’s a great quality to see in a brand! Like for me, in a relatively “flat” state, the alfine 11 will do everything I could throw at it. And the cost savings it brings 100% makes it a bike i can justify buying. Question, will that version be able to come with trigger shifters rather than the twist shift?

[@duzer]

Yes, the Alfine version will have trigger shifters

[@fabiogarbin2275]

this is so cool... halfway through the video I was thinking "Just do both" then scrolling through the comments I see your Pinned comment .... Perfect... cannot wait to see the final versions.

[@printerror]

Pinion Burrito and an Alfine 11 upgrade option for the Eight sounds like a good plan. Not gonna lie, I don't know if or how I'll ever go back to a traditional derailleur MTB after these first thousand miles on the 600x!

[@Scor-ah]

I am so sold on the Pinion set up, I have a Priority 600x and now a CoMotion custom made bike with the Pinion 18 sp. I will never go back to a regular derailleur. It would be nice to see Pinion gears more accessible to lower priced bikes.

[@timr2221]

One more thought is options in components similar to how the Otso Fennir is spec’d and ordered. Thanks again

[@zimmejoc]

I didn't know that the Alfine was limited to a 1 to 1.8, and that is just not low enough. My vote switches to Pinion now. However when I look at Pinion gearboxes I can see the P1.9Xr is the cheapest Pinion at 1,000 bucks. A C1.12 the gearbox is 1537 and a P1.18 is 2,200 bucks. Not sure what the manufacturer price is, but it seems like with Pinion you are verging near that "might as well save up for the 600x" threshold. Maybe an Alfine but make it clear that it is for pavement and forest service roads, but NOT the chunk. Of course both is also a great option.

[@AutiSam1974]

In reality lots of people have bikepacked off roasd with Alfine with a lower primary ratio than 1.8. I've seen as low as 1.2 Alee Denham talks about this on his channel. Of course Priority and Shimano would never approve or warranty this, its at your own risk.

[@simonstucki]

@@AutiSam1974 Very interesting to hear that lower gearing is possible, however as you say this won't be an option for this bike, since priority won't sell it like that.

[@dreuxdemack1417]

Just when I thought it was safe to put my credit card away, you give me another reason to keep it out. While I already have a sort of budget MTB, a Cannondale Trail 5, the Priority 600X has been on my wishlist since you started touting it on your treks. After seeing the two-way with the Priority guys, I would favor the Pinion still on the 600X. But I totally see the benefit of designing and building a budget bike for those who won't be needing such a high end model. The chat with the Priority guys was great and you all made some great choices. Soon I hope I have a 600X in my family room!

[@ivanys76]

Hi Brian, I think that two bikes are a great idea. It will be nice to also bring ideas about color schemes and let the people choose what they like.

[@ARJWright]

Neat. Missed the last video so getting caught up on this one. Definitely vibe with the Pinion vs Alfine discussion. I’ve got the Apollo, and do wonder what the Pinion would do to advance it. Having heard the concluding thoughts, I wonder now what a 2.5in tire with a Pinion would be like on the Apollo 🤤 Looking forward to the bikes Priority and Duzer 🫡

[@jeffdunn890]

Yay! Looks like there will be some more Priority bikes in my future! 😊

[@duzer]

Yes! Stay tuned

[@alethearobinson8132]

Choices are a good thing. The Shimano Alfine and belt drive are a great choice for city and light bike packing. For more serious stuff. Pinion all the way.

[@duzer]

Totally agree!

[@magnus9165]

Sounds good. Just do not use plastic seat posts like my 600 had. I tightened my seat post like it was made of metal. It cracked and broke off one day while I just lifted the seat to move the bike.

[@BMad-we6qf]

I think it might be worth pointing out that bikepacking and bike touring are different. For this discussion of gearing I think the key difference is the amount of weight of each setup. Biketouring tends to weigh more with several loaded panniers. Bike packing seems to be much more minimal and straps on dry bags; Ryan's set up. We found that the stock rims with 32 spokes on our Apollo and 600 gave out after about 1,000 miles of touring on gravel and dirt.

[@michaelmagee6428]

Gearing is one of the most important things to consider when you are pushing around a heavy weight on your bike. My 'adventure bike' is a 90's 26" Fuji Mt Fuji LTD cromo mtb, hard nose, drop bars, STI shifters with 48-38-26 crank and a 10-40 cassette. I'm used to taking care of front derailleurs (which in my 50 years experience almost never need adjustment). If I've done the math correctly, my 26 chainring with the 40 gear and 26" wheels give me a low gear inch somewhere around 16.9"with a high (48/10) x 26", of 113.45". pretty damned low, fairly high (wish I could fit a 52 chainring). I like the idea of a Pinion gearbox, but the cost is a bit prohibitive. Especially when The full set up of 9 speed STI levers, triple crank, 10-40 cassette, and long cage rear derailleur with Wolf Tooth Road Link (all used parts except the cassette and Road Link) all set me back about $400. I guess so much of the bike industry is built on expensive tech and bikes that cost $3500-$7000 (in my corral that's equal to 3 or 4 bikes and I would be mortified to spend that much on any one bike!). My entire Fuji build cost me about $800 and is a great ride. Can new tech come in with all the fancy tech around $2K? Probably not. I hope you can though, and still make a profit. TMI I'm sure...

[@leftcoastbeard]

So I'm an active Priority 600 owner. I think there could be some design changes that could make the design more modular/simpler to make it more of an entry-level setup for those looking to get into a highly reliable all-purpose bike.

[@chadat23]

For pretty much every product, somewhere there's a line in the sand where you should go used.

[@JohnMason-Hill]

love these forums. Thank you!

[@duzer]

Glad you like them!

[@paulpercival5817]

Been looking at riding the tour divide and I know I want a pinion gear box, need the range, I have bought reasonable and need up buying twice, so a bike with perhaps heavier bomb proof rims able to up grade to front suspension, or perhaps redshift stem happy times

[@georgeleakos8376]

For an 18 gear inch ratio you need a smaller chain ring, but of course you’ll be sacrificing your higher gears. How about a chain tensioner and a double chainring setup to go with that IGH?

[@marcwinkels9328]

This may be a stretch but could the gear hub bike have a pinion frame that could be up graded later. Maybe Priority could sale an upgrade kit with the gearbox and a normal rear wheel. For me I like starting with a good foundation and then adding little parts along the way. Even if it cost a little more in the long run you can get out there now and stretch the cost of what you really want out as long as you need to.

[@PeterCPRail8748]

That's really the smartest way to go if it's double. Two great base packing bikes at two price points. Entry and upper mid level speced bikes

[@carl1964carl]

You could use, a Alfine, with a chain tensioner, and two front chainrings, low and high.

[@gordharper7123]

I would like to see a priority 600 T (touring) the 600 doesn’t have enough braze ons

[@fredm8911]

Thanks for the video and explanation. I think you’ve hit on the right solution. Looking forward to my first priority with pinion and a suspension corrected rigid fork. Now about that electronic shifting pinion. Looks like another video. 😂

[@billysbikesbrews7183]

Yeah 🙌👏🙌👏.. How Awesome is that.. Everyone is a Winner 🥇.. Thanks Priority for Listening 😁.. Outdoors is the Best Medicine 💫

[@duzer]

It sure is!

[@bintopo]

Two bikes is a great compromise however I'm disappointed that a wider tire option wasn't discussed further. I've watched most of your rides and there are a number of them were you struggle because of soft sand. Wouldn't a 4" tire make more sense?

[@neilclaypoole7529]

I have a 600 and love the pinion would never change the pinion . I mostly ride gravel. If I wanted mountain trails I would just put on more aggressive tires. And maybe a 600x fork. Love my priority bike

[@cuttothechase777]

Hey Ryan I would love to see you do a trip on say the "White rim trail" on an Ebike! take a roll up solar panel with you so you can charge up at lunch, and away you go, most Ebike will do 100 miles with a charge here and there, it would make a great video! even an overnight trip as well! what do you recon mate? PS: Go with the Shimano BUT! make a frame that will "take" the Pinion but bolt in a normal crank drive, where people can buy the cheaper Shimano but later on they can un-bolt the cranks and bolt the Pinion straight in when they can afford it in the future! one bike does it all!!

[@stephenjordanesk8]

Woot! Glad there’s be options, I want to more than anything to be able to take your guy’s advice and go the for pinion but as a poor person I need the cheaper option, the price points on a quality bike have been the main reason for not getting one.

[@hngldr]

Could people not upgrade the Alfine to a Rohloff later? This helps answer this as well - if so then the Alfine lets you "Get out there!" now, then save up for the better hub later. It definitely affects which one I would purchase, and whether I would purchase one. Thanks! Hope you had a great Easter!

[@IliveonaBIKEdownbytheriver]

I honestly have very little feedback about the transmission. I use an old school style that I can work on myself. The only feedback I have is about the frame. Of my 7 bikes, I brought my Surly with a steel frame (which is my favorite anyway), so that if I REALLY mess it up, I can take it to a local welder for repair. I actually did get a dent in the top tube, and I wasn't even freaking riding at the time - lololol! It was windy and it tipped while resting against a picnic table. It was very much a WTF moment. As far as the gears, between my Surly and my Burly, I was resigned at the outset to the necessity of walking up (and sometimes down) hills. It's cool.

[@Anjenito]

I also wished for a steelversion for its better riding quality with a well made frame + much more frame stiffness to pack this horse up

[@Robscartoons]

I love the angles of the Priority 600, but wish it came in a 29r version. Maybe the frame be a bit longer, and support up to 2.6in tires? I would think a reasonable/realistic price point for this would be $2,500.00. I'd totally go for it, and want something like this that will take trail riding seriously! I myself ride full rigid on my Stache and an older Schwinn Ascension which is my pick of the two, mostly because oof the frame length and not so slacked out steer tube. I still ride black diamond trails but not a jumper or anything like that. For me its the simplicity of the rig. Cant wait to see what you guys come up with

[@terryeddington2030]

I'm late to the party but what about building the Alfine bike as a road touring bike vs. a bike packer bike? It would support more modest bike packing (big enough tires for fire roads and gravel but less than 2.6") while keeping the pricing reasonable and providing that priority quality for 90% of its use.

[@Breakdown0]

The Priority 600x has one of the most incredible price points to begin with. Shipping costs to Europe can be a deal breaker though, so if there's room for optimization, I'd be stoked. Maybe for this bike. Solid aluminum frame, rigid fork, Pinion C1.12 drive with chain for price efficiency. But with a solid, good quality wheelset with tyres of 27,5x2,8" (dare I dream clearance for 29+?). Good mechanical brakes and this very lovely, signature upright riding position/ geometry (seriously, no one else has this stack-to-reach-ratio without significant cockpit upgrades). Please do NOT opt for Gates CDN components. They are plastic, have been prone to breaking and chain is cheaper and more reliable still. You need to upgrade your sprockets from CDN to CDX anyways, so no money savings there. The possibility to upgrade this bike to a P1.18 eventually (should you ever desires) or brakes, etc. would be plenty with such a foundation!

[@nathanbunnell]

Great announcement! It sounds like part of your vision is to make these bikes upgradable. I think there is a strong value proposition in being abe to enter the Priority ecosystem at a lower price point and add capability as your skills grow. I'll be rooting for this project and likely upgrading my rig to Priority!

[@michaelganshirt8795]

How about a drop bar gravel version of each as well? Adventure bikes are just the best!

[@duzer]

Stay tuned!

[@kwafus277]

Good luck Ryan! This is a really tough decision and i wouldn't want to be in y'all shoes. We know that the pinion gear works unquestionably the best. The real question is, What system makes the most sense for those who want to just get out there and....just friggin do it! All around riding without the crazy extremes. Y'all already have the "beast". Perhaps, let the rest of us experience an internal drive system with a belt drive and that just may lead us all to ....."a better way"😊

[@jmoore3854]

To have an enjoyable bike packing experience the bike should be 20 gear-inches or lower. Kevin was not happy with his 24.5 gear-inches on his Diverge when he joined you on the GDMBR. You inspired me so I rode Section 1 of the GDMBR on my existing Trek Superfly FS8 with 22.2 gear-inches which was not quite low enough. I sold that bike and wanted to buy the Priority 600x but it was just too expensive. I bought a used Trek ProCaliber with a 17.8 gear-ratio and rode it on Section 2 of the GDMBR the following year which was plenty low. It is a shame the Shimano Alfine 11 and 8 cannot take the torque of a lower gear ratio. Building two new options are the way to go. A pinion version just over $2,000 and a Alfine version that would be a little over $1,000. Maybe similar to your Priority Eight with wider 50mm or 29er tires.

[@apriljohnson6191]

Call the one that goes into the woods the Artemis!

[@ExileTheKnightsOfMaltaNow]

Thanks for reminding me dang it it's killing me how long it's been since I've been in the saddle

[@Veera-family]

Thank you for budget friendly cycle, looking forward to seeing it

[@totonabil9378]

Go for the Pinion 👍

[@andyford5855]

Another request for a pinion Apollo! I love my Apollo but it does not love steep grades!

[@canshoot75]

Pinion gear box only! To drop the price go with a rigid fork and go 29+ so you can ride 3.5 max. And make a city bike with the pinion gear box. You want to increase the volume of sale to help lower the price!! Awesome bike!! Is there a Ti version coming ????

[@felipeprenholato2301]

Did a 700 km trip last week crossing really step climbs (up to 17%) with total weight of 113 kg (90 me, 13 bike, 10 in bags). The 30 x 51 tooth in SRAM NX / GX did a great work, but there was many climbs that I missed a lower gear, so I certainly would go Pinion too. Would be nice to a rack similar to Trek 1120 on front too. There is suspension forks with eyelets to fix cages?

[@arndtbc]

What's the time table to get these bikes out to customers?

[@FrenchProfCC]

Will there be a size suitable for short people (5'2- 5'3 in my case)?

[@joseph_anderson]

What about a Rohloff hub? Seems like the perfect split between the pros and cons of the alfine and pinion.

[@joehamilton9411]

Apollo with Pinion!! Yes! (Jones bars too)

[@GeraldDavis-sd6ht]

To begin, I’m that crazy guy down the street with a garage full of bikes. We have four bikes with Alfine geared hubs and four with Pinion gearboxes, and, of course an assortment of other drivetrains. I am totally sold on the belt drive/ internal gear combinations. Why not just add an Alfine 8 or 11 to the Priority Sauce for the low budget model. I’m accustomed to the yearly oil changes required by the Alfine 11 and Pinion, but this is likely a hassle for new bikepackers, making a strong case for the Alfine 8. Perhaps the frame for the Alfine bike could be built to easily accommodate a Rohloff upgrade. And for the Pinion bike consider the 9 speed gearbox; if the right cogs are available it can definitely be geared down to the desired range and maybe cut a few dollars. General Alfine comment: create your own (Priority) instructions for removing and reinstalling the Shimano Alfine wheels and adjusting the shifting range. I’ve changed them many times and they’re always challenging. Another subject/suggestion: work with Grin Technologies (in Vancouver) to identify some straight forward ebike conversions that include the application of regenerative braking.

[@aceshelman]

I'm curious what will differentiate the new flat bar Pinion bikepacking bike from the current 600 (not the 600X)? The generator hub on the 600 is nice but not a necessity (great option though), then strip the fenders and integrated lights... seems like the 600 is almost there already.

[@JohnB-kc6ii]

I bought an Apollo a little over a year ago, with the intention of bike packing across the US. After testing locally for a year, the Alfine 11 is just not up to the task! It feels fragile, and needs an expensive oil change every 500 miles. Plus, even unloaded sprints will grenade on a missed shift.

[@tempest1080]

The oil change requirement is once after the first 1000km and then once a year after that or 2000km under heavy use.

[@JohnB-kc6ii]

@@tempest1080 From experience, shifting quality degrades rapidly after a few hundred miles. An oil change around 500 miles {1000km) helps. I do not believe it would be tolerable by 1000mi (2000km). If I take my Apollo across the US, 3000+ miles, I would need to do at least 5 oil changes in 1 month.

[@wailaihu]

How about a Ti 600X? It would be a true dream bike.