"We should at least have a timeline for updates" - Zizaran Reacts

Zizaran reacts to ‪@Kripparrian‬ 's video about the delays with Path of Exile and Path of Exile 2.
Original video: • POE2 HAS EATEN POE1?! ...
Check out Starforge Systems - The best PCs in the universe: starforgepc.co...
Check out Displate at displate.com/z...
Livestreams ► / zizaran
Socials
► / zizaran
► / discord
Merch Store ► shop.zizaran.com/
Edited by ‪@Kikis118‬ ► / kikis118
#pathofexile

[@4D_SpaceTime]

The Poe content is weird lately, i feel like its just about Reacts videos of React video of another React.

[@MiniPiez]

It is, because there is a content draught, so they have to react to each other to make money now, I mean this is still valid because I honestly care about some of these opinions, but GGG has fumbled, this is far beyond an oopsie.

[@supremebuffalo6322]

​@@MiniPiezwhats a draught? Did you mean drought? Isnt draught like a fantasy word for potion or liquid?

[@KarizmaKai]

so true

[@KarizmaKai]

@@supremebuffalo6322 i thought he meant a beer lol

[@joelhodoborgas]

poe1 is freaking dead for now and poe2 is moving in snail pace. yeah theres nothing much to do lol

[@saltylemonz258]

NGL if I knew POE2 will caniballize poe1 I would never had bought EA for POE2. I supported them because they said they can both do poe1 and 2 at the same time and whichever game I like that I would like to stick to can be maintained or be better later on. With the situation of poe1, I feel like lied to. They clearly know they cant manage 2 games. They took poe1 devs way back then and we are only getting the message now because majority of poe players have already bought the supporter pack and successfully launched poe2. If they announced that they will canibalize poe1, there would be less people buying the EA and so here we are already in feb and half a year into settlers league which will settle forever. POE2 killed it for me. This league, I learned so much. I learned to craft a little, I learned optimization and how to always get life instead of more damage if theres a choice, how to stack defensive layers to survive t16 maps and the crazy mods in there, which mobs are extremely dangerous and etc. Wish I have anywhere I can apply these new knowledge I gain for the last 2 leagues I played in poe1. I guess I will be reinstating myself into society again. No longer exiled I guess.

[@emanuelfabricioescurra6091]

literally poe 1 its on maintenance mode, but no one want to talk about. Poe 1 its, not at least, the same as diablo 3. Idk where zizaran have his "faith". We dont even have a proper league and poe 1 its on maintenance, wtf will happen on a new expansion league? This is beyond logic, they want to kill poe 1 and they lied all players for months!

[@bangomargit]

@@emanuelfabricioescurra6091 You are literally pulling stuff out of thin air. GGG said they are getting back to PoE 1 after the next patch of PoE 2. Wich is completely logical. If anybody tought that they will be able to split their resources at launch is either lying or just stupid. Yeah it sucks that PoE1 didnt have any updates for so long, but if you actually know how GGG operates there is nothing to worry about. They said that Settlers was made by THREE ppl, and its universally called the best patch to date. So stop bitching about this shit, they havent relesed a new game since 2012, ofc they are messing up everything. Go play other games, or play Settlers in the meantime.

[@emanuelfabricioescurra6091]

@@bangomargit Man yeah, settles was made for 3 people, poe 2 for 5 and google indeed come from a garage. Are you sane dude? Poe 1 its on manteinance, like diablo 3. We had 5 leagues with delays, always POE2... and the game even have 30% of its total content!!! DUDE STOP DREAMING, GGG ITS KILLING POE 1 LIKE BLIZZARD WITH DIABLO 3 YEARS AGO!!! Wanna change something? STOP PLAYING POE IN GENERAL, and let the company see the real numbers after this release. Only with casual players ggg will collapse! LET THEM REMEMBER THAT AGAIN. For christ sake dude, are you Crhis Wilson? Did they pay to you?? Have a BIT of self- esteem as a costumer.

[@emanuelfabricioescurra6091]

@@bangomargit DID YOU EVER KNOW THE DATE OF THAT PATCH DUDE? They are pissing you and you drink cuz its rain man! YOU AND YOUR MINDSET are the industry problem. Tencent dont give a F of ggg or poe1.... Chris wilson its missing, and the head of development in poe 2 give you the poe 1 news.... Do you ever think logical?

[@moritze.7788]

@@emanuelfabricioescurra6091 you are just a doomer...

[@KyokujiFGC]

13:35 - I'd say because the pattern of their behavior for the last year or so shows that PoE 1 is clearly something they see as secondary now. That has also added to the perception of PoE 1 being a semi-abandoned game, which will affect player numbers for it, and it'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. People won't want to play a game they see as being phased out.

[@valjohnson7112]

yeah i think thats the real reason why we dont have a poe1 league right now. or at least an official league reset or something. ggg doesnt want new players going to poe1. imagine working for 8 years on a sequel and then part 1 of the game is still more popular.

[@TXIIILightning]

The fact that they recognized the mistake of pulling PoE1 devs to work on PoE2 - and are still gonna keep the devs until 0.2.0 and hotfixes are launched for it, is what troubles me most. "Yeah, I'm sorry for the mistake that we did - but we're gonna double down on it for a few more months" At that point you're not sorry or view it as a mistake. It's a decision, and P1 players are understandably upset over that decision.

[@vallarra2524]

Yeah but it’s also a commitment you have to stick with. If they made the announcement and said they were pulling the poe1 devs back off poe2 then suddenly both versions of the game are pushed back and neither side is happy. They made the decision to bolster the efforts to do more dev in poe2 and they kind of have to stick with it which is probably why they announced it like this.

[@Hooga89]

At this point they should just be honest that they really don't care about PoE1 anymore, we have all seen the numbers that PoE2 is pulling and those numbers are just on Steam. I know they have learnt some PR lessons from Kalandra and won't say what they really think until the breaking point when it's necessary, but I think it would behoove them as a company to rip off the band-aid now instead of just making the community increasingly frustrated and annoyed every 90 days.

[@thomasjaroscha7701]

But then 0.2.0 comes out and you get a huge player spike and a lot of backlash (x is still shit, you are so slow etc) and suddenly you copy/paste the video. Even in an optimistic timeframe, we are looking at 0.2.0 in march and june/july for 3.26... and 0.3 probably gonna be before 3.26 or there is a lot of backlash again... It wont be easy to fix.

[@thomasjaroscha7701]

On top, 3.26 might be very underwhelming if you say "okay our worst 10 developers do some numbers and we recycle something and bam, we have a new league"

[@TXIIILightning]

@@vallarra2524 I counter this by saying that PoE2 is a "Early Access" game, with no clear schedule or expectations in mind. GGG is treating it like a full release with the goal of large content updates, rather than small adjustments. This all at the cost of the company's main game that HAS a set schedule that's been followed for years, and an established returning fanbase.

[@MikeyJ28]

They didn’t give us a timeline because they don’t have one and they know they’d just get more blacklash when it’s inevitably delayed again.

[@bowserbrowser6559]

Its always good to manage your company with the mindset of a child putting off homework till the last second

[@MrAltairantares]

The biggest issue here is the lack of transparency. This was planely going to happen for months. If back in November, they had been honest and said "We apologize, but we feel we must do everything we can to make POE2 a success before we can go back to POE1, here's a rotation of fun events we are planning till we can get things back on schedule" the community reaction would be worlds different. But instead the devs deceived themselves and weren't honest to the community on where the priority is for something people devote a lot of hours of their life. POE2 has been bleed POE1 dry for a year+ now. People have a right to feel frustrated over it and GGG decided to focus all that reaction at one point with this decision.

[@greenwithin3654]

So true. Just say "we fucked up". Poe funs will understand. But no, we are gonna radio silence instead.

[@DCADE94]

lmao beta. stop crying

[@TreesPlease42]

Spot on transparency and communication

[@Wyrsa]

We're not doomer, we're realist. 0.2 is having problems so they're putting PoE1 devs on it. ok so what happens when they cant handle 0.3 and 0.4, and 1.0 and 1.1. The games not gonna get any easier to develop.

[@vimzim8576]

"I don't understand why they wouldn't keep updating both". Kripp said they would, he just doesn't have confidence they can do both PoE1 and 2 with 3-4 month leagues and the last two years is a pretty good reason why people should have some uncertainty in relation to their ability to execute. Despite how much we love GGG, it is mismanagement to drop so many leagues in the last few years for PoE1 when they committed PoE2 development wouldn't impact PoE1. PoE2 is also way behind where it was meant to be and they had to do a last minute rush job on the end-game content which as we have seen is far from ideal. We are in Early Access, it isn't a beta, the game is in closed beta standard and it needs some significant mechanical fine tuning. It has had duping issues, balance-wise the game is falling apart far quicker than PoE1 does, the desire to make it more challenging content is a lot harder to design and do well, they need to reign in problems which aren't really problems in PoE1 because the throttle in PoE1 is cockblocking you from content with rng drops. We are stuck in some twisted reality that is part way between Ruthless and something else, to me it just doesn't flow well, it has a lack of identity in terms of who it caters to which PoE1 didn't suffer from and I think as a result it takes up far more resources to develop for than they had imagined.

[@aidonis98]

Yea, not sure how Ziz didn't understand this. It isn't that PoE 1 is about to be a dead game. He was saying that the days of a new PoE1 league every three months are likely gone. Maybe we get a league every 4-6 months, instead of every 3.

[@goldenhate6649]

The reason it feels like a half assed game is because it was. It was SUPPOSED to be a patch to poe 1, which means it wouldn't have all these growing pains. But someone at GGG thought making POE into a souls-like would be fun. And honestly, I cannot see myself leveling through the hell that is the campaign on multiple leagues.

[@patrickbaklava7297]

its prolly better that they slow down poe 1 so many new people are playing poe 1 and the mechanics are alot to deal with maybe its better people get to sit in the leagues a little longer personally i just got to mapping on my first go thru on the league and it would kinda suck if it ended right now imo i think its all the sweats who have ran the campaign 1k times who are mad they arent getting a small dose of new content

[@thatsoulsguy3028]

@@goldenhate6649I’m gonna be honest man people like you are really really ignorant. I’m not saying you’re stupid at all but poe2 is absolutely not a souls like lol you just don’t know what you’re doing and are still learning how the game works. After playing through the campaign about 6-7 times now all different builds I was able to clear the campaign without dying in about 15 hours. Which isn’t too much longer than poe1. There’s only certain boss mechanics you have to dodge roll but it’s literally no different than using frostblink/flame dash or the regular dash skill in poe1 to avoid boss one shots. You have just died a lot because no offense, either your build isn’t good or you’ve been unlucky with drops and you want to compare it to a souls game because you aren’t aware of how things work enough to know how to win first try every try. It takes time poe1 is like 14 years old poe2 isn’t even 2 months old

[@pogobear123]

​@@thatsoulsguy3028not sure what you're on about, souls games are also only hard on the first couple of playthroughs. I have a combined total of over 700 hours across the souls games, I can beat them all with my eyes closed, the same why we can all beat the poe campaigns with our eyes closed. Poe2 is absolutely more souls-like in that the boss combat is much more involved and its intended that you die a few times when beating them for the first time. Also not sure what you mean "15 hours is not much longer than poe1 campaign", league start I run the poe1 campaign in 10 hours tops

[@lusbox4724]

poe2 is literal years away from being as fun as poe1, if it can even reach the same heights if they keep the current systems.

[@CDirk1]

to me this is the biggest issue, they are putting too much money on a EA that allegedly is gonna last like 6 months (if it does the launch state of the game is gonna be stale af) to completely ignore the golden goose they've had for years

[@antimitsu]

It's always the osaka pfps with the best takes

[@MrRafagigapr]

poe 1 was much less fun on release and even worse balance , the player base was just 100 times smaller so we broke the game less

[@bloomleaf8310]

@@MrRafagigapr sure but that was a small dev team without much experience who just wanted something like D2. This is a team with 13 years of experience to pull from, POE2 should not be having these issues. It’s not even slightly comparable.

[@1div2agent74]

It’s way more fun than poe1. Too many weird random insta kill deaths in both games. But poe1 has way more cheesy cheap insta deaths

[@davidma22]

Given the state POE 2 is in, and how stale POE 1 is... the announcement might has well have said "Go ahead and go play something else we've got nothing for you"

[@ChaosxLordx]

I moved back to classic WoW, lol

[@3ndeavor]

They've said as much many times before. You'll be back.

[@Uelibertiga]

@@3ndeavor Not sure this time. 1 league in a year is an immense break of the cycle. I played every league except for kalandra since betrayal and I think I´m done for good.

[@supernova86]

@@Uelibertiga literally no one fuckin cares

[@emanuelfabricioescurra6091]

True and i will never support gg again. They lied to us, today ggg its EA and Ubysoft.

[@retikka]

The whole endgame loop of run 50 dogshit maps around towers to block them and then run the dogshit towers to juice the remaining 30 maps or something to have somewhat rewarding mapping. Will come back to test new classes during EA but otherwise i'll just play other games since devs completely F'd PoE1. Due to quite bad mismanagement my hopium has run out and expect to get 1 PoE1 league and only druid and huntress in PoE 2 (no acts or anything) in whole of 2025.

[@kozwiz2385]

Yeah mate games meant to have fun if no more fun move to other games for example D4 and comeback when it fun again

[@retikka]

@@kozwiz2385 exactly and i am happy that MH Wilds is gonna release this month so that's easy 2k+ hours.

[@adventures12345-l]

i dont know why poe 2 exists.... sums up everything.

[@danielcook8480]

My issue with the whole situation is that deadlines have already been pushed back multiple times and even if 0.2 for poe gets released and the devs spend a couple weeks working on it putting out fires whats stopping the same thing happening with launch and the devs being kept on until 0.3 and if 0.3 has issues well they will need the devs to help fix that aswell and GGG also probably wants a release sometime within the next year or two and after a few patches its gonna be December time again and they will want to push out another patch . At the very least would give the community some sort of relief cause right now its looking like the earliest were getting a new poe league is june/july a year after the last 3month league.

[@sugarhighwhoo]

What's strange is, looking at the past when leagues were delayed and they released those minor 1 week "endless delve" etc type leagues that assumedly are very simple to implement/turn on for the playerbase to have something to do. However, in this case they don't even offer something of that magnitude. It seems like not only are they announcing the next league is delayed indefinitely, they also don't even want you to play anything other than POE2.

[@critzngritz]

this is really all they have to do to tide us over, but they dont want to take the momentum away i guess

[@Sheriff_K]

Honestly I never bothered with any of those temporary leagues, because for me "no challenge rewards=no point."

[@Scyths1]

To be honest they better have enormous improvements for the new "league" of PoE 2 because they have the whole studio working on it now and not just the old PoE 2 team. I genuinely enjoyed the PoE 2 campaign but by the second character I was sick of how long it took to finish act 3, let alone get to maps.

[@KuroiRenge]

You literally have to do the same thing, except with 10 acts, in PoE 1.

[@madhatten5123]

@@KuroiRengethe entirety of PoE 1s campaign takes at most 6 hours for a competent player. The PoE 2 acts are atrociously long with horrible layouts in every act.

[@cloudstrife7862]

Poe1 campaign MUST take longer cause it has 10 acts over poe2's 6 lul good one

[@firebat36]

"Planets dying Cloud."

[@marioharrer9999]

@@madhatten5123 it takes 4-4.5 hours to complete poe2 campaign to a competent player what are u talkin about.

[@etheros7557]

I haven't played PoE 1 enough to have a lot of goodwill for GGG, but I got really hooked on the Settlers league, so much that I spent 700 hours, considering that the most hours in a game I had before was 1.4k. So I broke my rule and bought the supporter pack with EA, with the premise that even if PoE 2 won't be to my liking they promised to continue working on PoE 1 and that it will not affect the game, plus the announcement of the next league in February. So now all of my goodwill is spent with the announcement of the delay and only telling the news at the last minute. I will patiently wait for the next PoE 1 league, if it will be disappointing I will call it a day. It will be very sad for me if they decide to shelf PoE 1 in favor of PoE 2 after I finally found a game that I really enjoy playing.

[@thunderingice667]

Why are still comparing steam chart numbers? Only 2 has the Chinese playerbase in it. Of course the numbers are different. That difference makes them not comparable.

[@ContinuumOnPC]

(13:34) I think it is truly dependant on whether GGG actually wants to stand by their previous statement and have both games run side by side and have interwoven 3 month league cycles. Yes it does makes financial sense to have both games be revenue providers and I genuinely think it would have worked had it been managed correctly. Unfortunately Jonathan didn't provide any timelines for either game which means GGG is looking at their immediate future with a "I don't know, let's see what happens" attitude rather than a "We're doing x, y and z to solve this" which is worrying as that's a reactive, rather than proactive, management style. But I do understand why they wouldn't want to make promises they don't know they can keep. GGG clearly does not have the numbers to have two dedicated teams; one for each game. Which is very surprising as they've had 5 years to assess the possibilities... Therefore, is it now too late to take the risk of spending X amount of money on new talent, infrastructure, offices etc? Seeing as it's taken 5 years to make 3 acts with 3 acts yet to build. I genuinely think that it'll go one of two ways now. Worst outcome is PoE1 gets put on life support with minimal updates and PoE2 is the new poster child for GGG. Best outcome is that, once GGG find their feet and get more comfortable with the workload PoE2 has brought them (through new hires, better practices, better management), they seek to ensure that both games have the teams and resources to cope independently. However this is more than likely at least a year away realistically speaking.

[@SitKid721]

Got on poe1 last night and man it feels so much better and the map layouts 🤌🏼

[@Gelonyrum]

So true, maps in poe2 are AWFUL, the only one good is beach.

[@joelhodoborgas]

I want poe1 with poe2 wasd and new graphics 😭

[@CadillacBoss30]

Too bad the graphics of Poe 1 makes my eyes hurt

[@JoshuaIsTheMessiah]

​@@CadillacBoss30poe2 graphics actually hurt 😂

[@C0nfusi0n0FTheHighest_Orda]

​@@joelhodoborgaswasd it's dogshit

[@Vhalior666]

I'll preface this statement by saying I have over 25k+ hours in PoE1 and 650 hours in PoE2. So, here I go... We all need to get over it, boys. Yep, the next PoE1 Season is delayed. Yep, PoE2 needs some work as it's still in Early Access. I don't like it either, but, let's relax our collective buttholes for a moment and do something else for a while. It will probably do us some good. I may even go outside for the first time in a decade. Apparently the graphics are pretty good. I guess we'll see.

[@sirgregoryadams]

They're basically going all-in on PoE 2, which just seems like a completely unnecessary risk. PoE 1 is a popular, stable, and consistently profitable project that they already have. Meanwhile, PoE 2 is still just in early access, with no specific expectations placed on it, and a full release still quite far away. From a risk management standpoint, delaying PoE 2 while making sure the already popular PoE 1 continues to be successful seems like the obvious choice.

[@DoctorStrange01]

They sold way over a million of copies if it had like 500k players at one point, and this is an undercooked early access, that's a lot of money for a game in this state. They've also been working on this for years and are fully aware they can't go with PoE 1 forever. It's PoE 2 all-in because if they don't go all-in now, they might as well scrap the whole project, cause there's so many things that need fixing/changing at the fundamental level. Sounds pretty logical to me to ditch PoE 1 for now until they get PoE 2 to a playable state, as of now it's basically PoE 1 lite with new visuals and re-introduced some of the already fixed in PoE 1 issues, lol. They need every single person to work on it. Delaying PoE 2 or not was probably more Tencent than GGG's decision, they knew the best what they're releasing to public, they got a phone call from China saying "don't delay this any more cause we want profit, not apologetic videos about delays" and so they did what the overlord wanted. And yeah, even if they'd say it's not the case, it probably was :D Players just don't look at things from a business perspective at all, they're too emotional and biased with their judgement. Probably majority of games that ever get released undercooked or straight up bad is because of that. Investors want profit, they don't care about the state of the game.

[@killerbas40]

​@@DoctorStrange01yes its the same business bs as always, short term profit over long term. Its also how games died in the past and are dying rn in many cases. We don't know yet where poe 2 will be in 2 months in terms of player count, we don't know yet if those players will support the game like the players did in poe 1. They made bank now with the use of hype for something new, but also gained more of a negative reputation in general. If the new update for poe 2 isnt great, even more will fall off. If the next poe 1 league is bare minimum, veteran poe 1 players who spent multiple thousands on the game will stop supporting

[@Raycheetah]

PoE Deuce's Steam numbers include China (which PoE's do not), and also include a significant population of bots (but I repeat myself). As the "last man standing," Jonathan Rogers finally gets to do his dream vanity project, and given the obvious contempt in which he holds PoE, it comes as no surprise that he happily strips away PoE's resources for his "baby." =9[.]9=

[@madhatten5123]

GGG should learn from gaming history. When a company alienates its core audience it never goes well.

[@markuslc1888]

chris wilson should do an interview with ziz and/or kripp.

[@JustADudeGamer]

Ben

[@zeradshi]

But Chris Wilson stepped down, he no longer director of anything and honestly i bet he happy he not part of the shit show this time around

[@ChaosxLordx]

@@zeradshi Agreed. People have a very short memory of all the gaslighting and 'blame the player base' takes Chris would constantly roll out when facing any criticism. He was the king of the triple-down. VERY glad he is no longer the face of GGG. Mark is alot better imo.

[@markuslc1888]

@@zeradshi oh i didn't know that.

[@dsteppenwolf]

kripp saved poe1 back in the day.. but I'm not sure if he can do the same thing again.

[@IXxhpnotiqxXI]

Pohx is saving it now

[@Kragaar]

GGG hasn't given a date because of what you've said around the mismanagement. They don't know when they'll be getting 3.26 out and it is not their priority so it will get kicked back if there is even a whiff of a problem in PoE2.

[@paniczeezily]

Remember everyone, the only new content is that there is no content! How many no content videos and streams can we churn out into the hot take machine!

[@GRIMHOOD99]

My dissapointment got much better when I realised that GGG practically screwed themselves out of two leagues worth of kirac passes and supporter packs by this because 3.26 is most likely coming around the time 3.28 would come.

[@naiveknight47]

True. But I wonder if # of Kirac passes in 2 PoE1 leagues is not way lower than # of EA passes for PoE2 + extra money from player creating custom PoE1 leagues out of boredom.

[@GRIMHOOD99]

@@naiveknight47 Oh they have definitely made much more money on EA passes than they would make on those packs and passes on poe 1 leagues, but if everything went their way they would have that as an extra and now they don't. Idk about the private league money that won't be very high number and people can fund it with points which a lot of people have plenty of so that probably won't be much.

[@vanilo.alexandre]

Settlers was the first league I played enough to kill pinnacles and get a Mageblood

[@r2Kd0ugernaut]

source - "thats what ggg told us..." right after ggg just fuckin lied to use lmfao. how delusional.

[@grants7278]

I think you are far too optimistic. I think Kripp is right that we'll see a downswing in players to PoE1 next league. If the league was soon, I'd agree with you, but we are still a minimum of 4 months out. The hardcore will come back, but a lot of the average players won't. They'll be on to new things. I think PoE1 is going to be put to pasture here soon as GGG has shown that anytime PoE2 needs anything, they are willing to throw it under the bus fully.

[@zeradshi]

But streamers keep point out steam charts on numbers for path of exile 2, only reason they seem alot higher then poe 1 peaks are its included Chinese client players which they have to play on steam for EA, you dont see Chinese players on steam charts for poe 1

[@grants7278]

@@zeradshi And also, it's a brand new game that got advertised well, of course it's going to have big numbers to start. The "real" test is going to be after the second league launch.

[@masterpills]

This might just be the idea for POE1. Just let it sit for so long they have an excuse to actually shut it down and say its unsustainable and POE2 becoming the main player base because of them taking so long to update it. If they updated POE1 right now it would have more players than POE2 no doubt. But they will let it rot until the excuse to shut it down makes more sense.

[@gabeleavitt4053]

What I don't understand is wouldn't putting out a poe 1 league and giving everyone something else to look at for a bit have been better than taking everyone to work on changes for poe 2 that didn't fix the game for most people. They could've used the time people were playing the new league to work on really changing poe 2

[@CadillacBoss30]

Most poe 2 players are not playing poe 1 and want poe 2 updates and classes rolled out. It's that simple.

[@yamiji3380]

Look at Steam numbers, PoE 1 already doesn't matter. Giving anything for PoE would make PoE 2 numbers drop and getting that game to a properly monetizable state is the only thing on GGGs mind probably. If anything I call it now, 3.26 won't happen at all and instead we will get an announcement how "managing two games is too much for the 'small' PoE team".

[@shooterl7mcgavin]

@@yamiji3380 that 1 guy that runs the trade website is now responsible for poe1 league content also probably

[@CozyyGaming]

@@yamiji3380 i all you are wrong. But only the future will tell.

[@Ljrod95]

You do realize that whatever update they did after christmas vacation was like 2 weeks of work for them. 2 weeks of work developing a new league is nothing, so they put the resources to better use. It's fact that poe2 is a priority and poe1 isn't right now.

[@bertjohnson401]

A key phrase, "People are going to buy MTX at the launch..." As a business decision, I know I don't have the facts, but league retention is nice and all, but let's say, including console, PoE 2 brought in 1.5 million, let's be generous. If PoE 1 averages 300 on steam, that's what, a half million players per league. Just guesstamites. Let's now make a 3.26 assumption: It releases in May-July, and then 3.27 releases sometime 2027. So in over a year and a half, PoE would normally have 5 to 6 leagues. At a half mill each. that's twice as many opportunities to sell MTX and league packs, not even taking into account PoE 2 players coming into it's ecosystem. For about 10% of the staff. Twice as much money for 10% of labor budget. Not even taking into account the number of players who won't really buy MTX for 3.26 because why buy a supporter pack for a game that's destined for maintenance mode? I guess I'm of the opposite of some: once PoE 2 is full release, free up labor, free up servers, free up all the resources that went into PoE 1, and shutter it pretty quickly. I'd hate to see that, but I get it. But killing your moneymaker while the new one is still learning to crawl doesn't make sense to me. Sidenote: I'm in Pohx's league, and Friday when they reached out to GGG to increase the limit, they said everyone was out of the office for the weekend. I don't know about NZ labor, but if your release product is on fire, why aren't you working weekends? I was critical of LE on their disastrous launch weekend for taking the weekend off while their player base couldn't play, gotta say, don't tell me you're doing everything you can and then drive up to the Hamptons for the weekend.

[@benjaminross4605]

PoE2 brought in far more than 1.5 million on steam alone. Steam analytics suggest 2.3 million - 7 million players just on steam.

[@bertjohnson401]

@@benjaminross4605 I obviously didn't have my coffee, I was using concurrent player numbers instead of units sold across the board for both games. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@wheeze9378]

The delay of poe1's next league made me start playing poe1 settlers league, since now i have time to play it all through and do all the challenges, so for me this is wierdly good news. ^^

[@DiogoVKersting]

100% agree with you. I don't think GGG will stop with PoE1, because it's in their interest for it to continue. GGG will only ever completely stop PoE1 if players no longer have interest in it, which is clearly not the case.

[@SithLordBishop]

i dont plan to play poe1 much more myself and I played a fair amount before

[@displeasedone]

I feel like a relatively easy fix in the mean time would be to do a rerun of a previous league for PoE 1. Just give us a fresh ladder with a league mechanic we haven't engaged with in a while, with the current tree and skills balance. Maybe even make it spicy and do a mix of 2 or 3 previous leagues all together. They would probably only need to have 1 employee set that up, as all the assets and mechanics already exist.

[@masoncoast9466]

Bring back scourge league 🤌

[@erlendwillassen4027]

I think there is many like me and our little guild with PoE1 veterans that are more interested in PoE1 than PoE2. PoE2 have massive potential, but its years away. Like Ben said, everything but the campaign is pretty much crap or way worse than PoE1. I agree with Ziz with the gearing part in PoE2. Lets say you play SSF, if you play a long time, and your gear is somewhat decent, the chances of getting something better is like winning the lottery, so might as well stop.

[@Juggs_WoW]

Signing themselves up to support crossover MTX from both games is a huge beast I think they might have underestimated the amount of support to make that happen.

[@ilyushka00]

13:46 keyword: finished

[@dirtnap9641]

PoE1 is done

[@00holokast00]

Everyone I know who has played PoE 2 said they will not play PoE 1 because they do not like the graphics or have said they have just played PoE 2 so will not be playing a similar game for a long time. Also it seems like the majorty of current PoE 2 players are not arpg players and will not play seasons they will play it max once a year but really only once every 2 years.

[@zeradshi]

I think so to, the notion of have to restart when a new season comes out is not the way they probably think it works, instead think it work like mmorpg when new content or expansions comes out they can continue on there standard char

[@bloomleaf8310]

@@zeradshimy bigger concern is that they will think it works like d4 where season content goes to the eternal realm immediately, instead of waiting 3 months to have a chance at it going core. Which does make me wonder if they will even keep that league model going forward.

[@H0elscheR]

I'm sorry, but your high on Copium, Ziz. It's a company and money is everything. They don't have the resources to keep updating both games every 3 months. The best outcome possible will be yearly new content for poe1 (with resets ever 3 months). The probable outcome: poe will be supported for 2 more years and then bye servers.

[@lordtulkus40]

Yep Im very disappointed we have to wait 3+ more months for POE1. I know I wont be spending money on POE2

[@kostya555666]

What was the reason of taking 10 people off the project that makes them constant stream of money for a project that has 200 people working on it and is nowhere remotely to make constant stream of money(leagues-> resets-> support packs)? Its JUST 10 PEOPLE FOR FUCKS SAKE! It doesn't make any sense. Like... Why?

[@3xpression296]

League model is not sustainable for their existing playerbase on Poe 2. What's going to happen is exactly what happened to Poe 1. You're gonna have 20k people for the remainder of your games life cycle. A far cry from their 500,000 early access sales.

[@DoctorStrange01]

1.0 will have a better peak, but if they don't fix the core (majority of it actually), the honeymoon phase will also be rather short after full release and people who didn't pay for EA will download it, play it, get to the endgame and see it's kinda bad, then leave. But since everyone and their mother is working on PoE 2 at GGG, i hope it will eventually get good.

[@zeradshi]

Am gone bee a doomer and say the influx of "new players" are not the arpg players that follow the formula of new leage / season / epoch whatever the name is called and they have to start fresh and cannot play there so called geared lvl 90 plus chars in the new leage is gone sting and probably will not start a leage. Same shit happend to D4 when they got in influx of new players that did not play arpg, they got shocked at seasons and that its a reset and they have start fresh again.

[@JoeNoMercy]

I think people are vastly overestimating all these new players willingness to restart every 3 months. Before it's all said and done the poe playerbase will look largely the same. Poe 2 was a waste

[@quincestopher8892]

Ya it will be interesting to see how the numbers look after .2 patch

[@Vexferen]

If you are an ARPG dev randomly reading this. This is the best time to release a title and dethrone PoE from the spot, or launch a nice update. It's clear that we will dealing with a really lackluster version of PoE1 just with better graphics for the rest of the year, maybe 18months~

[@fakesmilez1]

I agree with Ziz that I don't understand why they wouldn't keep updating POE1, yet Kripp's conclusion still appears to be correct. Unless GGG is going to hire more and get a dedicated team on POE1 development, POE2 will continue cannibalize resources.

[@blazedehart2748]

14:19 that’s crazy. To think, Settlers is my favorite PoE1 league in a very long time. I am more exited for the next league than I have been ever I think.

[@DeekerJones]

You hit the nail on the head about POE1 being completely overwhelming. I have played it off and on since 3.09 and the last time I tried it, I was so anxious about all these new systems and trying to learn them, their rewards, how to finesse the mechanics... I became paralyzed with too many options. Everytime I wanted to do something I felt compelled to watch a half dozen KZbin videos to make sure I wasn't wasting my time doing it wrong. The first time I watched a syndicate video, I literally just logged out for that league. That Krangled meme on Reddit is 100% accurate. Also, WASD has completely ruined me. I do not want to play POE1 until it has been implemented. It wasn't until I played POE2 that I realized like 70% of my skill issues in POE is due to point and click. It was fine back in the D2 days where you had 1 or 2 abilities and a couple flasks, but POE1 flasks alone give me PTSD. I know, I suck... But it is what it is. POE2 solves this problem for me.

[@finbruan]

I'm so early, yet a single bot already made 3 comments

[@Lilybellmusic]

I'm surprised that a company like GGG who were able to push out crazy updates every 3 months is struggling so hard with project management. The only thing that makes sense is that developing poe 2 is much, much harder than anyone expected

[@TheLastOne1991]

you also believed them ferociously when they said PoE 2 wouldn't be a seperate game

[@unlearningify]

I'm also confused, in relation to the "PoE 1 is dead" dooming. GGG already has an internal system set-up, where PoE 1 leagues effectively act as "open beta" for testing out new ideas for content to add to the game. Why would a company would want to throw away such a valuable resource that would effectively fund and drive content for a newer, more popular, game. It makes zero logical sense. They want PoE2 to be more friendly and more polished, they *_need_* PoE1 leagues to test out their new ideas. Not creating PoE1 content effectively disenfranchises more than half of their player base. Again there is zero reason for any of this. They are just human beings, they made some mistakes, over estimated the polish of what they had put together and what they'd be able to turn out in a short period of time. Now they are just are scrambling to pick up the pieces to get into a rhythm again. Just give them some grace and some time. Everything will be ok.

[@DrasTalos]

What would have been really cool is releasing a POE 1 Anniversary league like arch nemesis or sentinel rolling out one of their more popular leagues. You could even potentially have the previous buffs and bonuses ie. playing classic cyclone builds before the nerfs or just adding the old league mechanics into the current standard. This would require little effort and solve a huge PR issue for them.

[@RichardGrable]

GGG shot themselves in the foot by making POE2 a separate game. Context switching between both games is not something that most players will be able to handle, and having 2 separate games and different leagues within those games will further complicate things. Not to mention they'll also have to stagger the release cadence for each games leagues, and both games will struggle with retention as a result.

[@panzerswineflu]

Considering how they completely blew the February date for February and how upset people are, there's no way they can give a rough time

[@Applausey]

The only thing for me is saying the argument that it shouldn’t mean a slow decline of POE 1 due to only needing 4-5 people for a League then why can’t they just do that now? If it’s such a small sacrifice needed then why does it matter if they go work on it now?

[@mcnugget9999]

I don’t watch many of your videos but when I do I always leave feeling somehow happy for ziz. Seems like such a standup guy

[@ricken21]

In response to Ziz's question: why would next league be lower in terms of people playing, my take is people may be pissed off and won't play it on purpose and just move on to some other games or even genres. So kinda what happened to blizzard, which from arguably one of the highest regarded companies among fans, after just a few bad decisions and unfulfilled promises quickly declined into one of the lowest regarded companies. As I truly think that lower standard of blizzard games was just part of its demise but the other part, perhaps even bigger one was that people were pissed off by their actions and didn't play their games on purpose. So what GGG have done by their decision is basically they made big step in following Blizzard path, whether they like it or not.

[@Uelibertiga]

This will be me. Played since 3.5, tried PoE2 don´t like it and haven´t touched it since late december, after the announcement my trust is so eroded that I´m not sure if I will be back for the next league or in general.

[@Schmidteren]

They should have just updated POE1 with better graphics and animations.

[@paperstars9078]

The reason I started playing path of exile in the first place was that I could plan and join a leaguestart. In Dota the updates are also really good, but I cannot plan for them.

[@Valsedar]

The best way for GGG to give the community of poe1 a little more love would be to extend pox private league and allow more players or uncap it. Just throw a bone our direction

[@liamobrien6044]

I think what ziz isn’t taking into account when saying “there’s no way they won’t keep updating poe 1!” is this: what if they decide to do 4 POE 2 leagues a year? What if Poe 2 takes over? Why wouldn’t it? And honestly at this point why shouldn’t it? The QOL and design direction is so much better than where poe 1 is. It should take priority for at least this whole year lmao. People are too worried about Poe 1’s future when we’ve got a whole new game that has to succeed

[@blahdzhahd3736]

I wouldn't be surprised if PoE1 goes "maintenance mode" after they eventually release 3.26. Probably re-release popular seasons and do something like the special events they did before.

[@iniyariradio5829]

Everyone jumped all over me when I said way back in December that I wouldn't play PoE2 if you couldn't reroll Ascendencies. Looks like there are a lot more problems in GGG's house....

[@idkimnotcreative8974]

12:45-13:30 I said something identical to this on a palsteron video from like a day ago and got berated for being a "shill" even though i was just explaining the obvious reasoning that ggg went through to decide poe2 was more important. I even stated in a follow up comment that i wasnt agreeing with the decisions but you cant ignore the clearly more popular and profitable game. People were even making shit up to defend poe1 like saying I was using fake poe2 player numbers when they are publicly available from steam

[@figa5567]

The issue Ziz is poe1 shares the same backend as poe2. Which means anytime they want to introduce anything to poe1 that needs support from the BE (ie, most things), they'd need to debate if this is also the best change for poe2. This is why, even if poe1 makes 20% of the money that poe2 makes, they wont just have 20% of the resources in poe1. Theyll have less. I think Kripp is right on the money here

[@williammaxwell6637]

Ziz kinda out of touch in this one. Obviously, poe 1 players will be lost when the update will be only once or twice a year. Also, for normal people, they usually don't want to play the prequel when the sequel is out.

[@benjaminross4605]

When they went from 3 month leagues to 4 month leagues the number or players each league went up though, not down. Fewer leagues I expect will increase the number of players each league a bit - not decrease it, a lot of players don't play every league and now they will be consolidated into the same windows.

[@williammaxwell6637]

With that logic, why not release it once every two years so even more players will come back? The more players coming to play is because people can see the game is improving each season.

[@stormblind1654]

I gotta say, I find it remarkable how many people bring up the steam stats as some be-all, end-all. The numbers can't be viewed the same as PoE1. PoE1 is very oriented around returning users, and growing that slowly and organically. Large levels of retention from league to league, with new folks brought on through word of mouth, etc. With PoE2, its been out 2 months. There's a massive chance that the "retained" players we see now aren't the same ones who played a month ago. Its way more likely that some of these are new folks who are trying it out now. The Launch Hype, the Elon Drama, etc. brought a tonne of eyes onto the game, and worked as advertising. The first month of the next "PoE2 league start" will show a more accurate representation of the game and its retention levels. Until then, I view the "retention stats" as PoE2 glazing vs actual good faith discussion at this point. 😕

[@00holokast00]

I feel the same way, these "huge" numbers of players are not arpg players and will not be playing every league, whereas we have a huge community in PoE 1 of players that play every league.

[@Zzarth]

Additionally i doubt even 50% of the POE1 Playerbase uses Steam, while your being forced to do so for POE2... I agree, this is pure marketing and tells nothing about the longevity. And tbh, it seems like the philosophy is driven way too much towards a "one time" experience.. Do you really want to play THIS campaign multiple times every 3months? I was already annoyed with my second char...

[@dekodekomo3072]

copium mode on 😅

[@nerfsin1059]

Affliction league for me was 9/10 because the enjoyment i got by running 6k wisps maps combined with things like delirium/essences/harbingers etc. It was next level since i love blasting maps and those maps were awesome to do, not even cuz the rewards but cuz of how challenging some monsters could get 🥲 an valdo's boxes were very fun to me

[@darthasavage7213]

The reason they did not give us a timeline is because they don't know when it can be ready and don't wanna make another promise they cant deliver on.

[@ThomasWinget]

"you vote with your wallet" -- fwiw I bought a supporter pack for Settlers assuming at least some of that money would go toward further development of PoE1. I accept that this appears to not be the case, and I will indeed vote with my wallet.

[@The1rust]

For PoE2, GGG would do themselves a favour over the course of EA to release updates as they happen or more timely batches rather than go at it as if it's a live release. There's no reason to hold off until an economy reset in a game which is half done and requires as much testing, fixing and feedback as possible and may even shorten the EA period since there's no reliance on time gating. I'd rather that kind of volatility where we can see things moving forward more consistently where, say, every two weeks comes with a batch of updates like we've seen in the past rather than radio silence until they feel it's time to reset an economy every couple or few months and then everything which hasn't been addressed but deemed "too large" for mid-league changes gets pushed back until the next reset.

[@lv20swds]

The reason you don't get it is because you don't want to get it. It's not a matter why they wouldn't keep developing POE1. It's about coming to accept that they already have stopped developing POE1. 6 months ago. With no actual plans to resume developing it. You think once POE2 is done they'll release content for both? When do you think that will actually be? Fooling yourself into thinking 0.20 will magically fix everything? What reason is there to believe they won't find some other aspect of POE2 that is in desperate need after 0.20 launches? Once 1.0 hits?

[@K1m9857]

Ziz is breathing copium so hard Holy

[@3ASY355]

Having a level headed take, instead of pretending the two games will be end of service by the end of the year = copium

[@K1m9857]

@3ASY355 no The copium is him saying poe 1 will have more players when 3.26 launch It is like poe 2 being a beginner course in engineering, while poe 1 is nuclear science and you are working with uranium day 1

[@3ASY355]

@@K1m9857 I mean his kinda right. The uninitiated will jump in to poe1 because of poe2. Will they stick around when they realize that poe1 is on a different galaxy than 2? Probably not. But the result is still more player trying 1 because of 2. Hence, making it not really a copium take 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@K1m9857]

@3ASY355 the attention rate won't go higher or anything Which is what he also implied

[@K1m9857]

@3ASY355 if poe 2 player, who learn that the systems that made them enjoy poe 2 is not available in poe 1, they wouldnt even bother to try Especially since wasd isn't there due to bad character rigs

[@Hejti_]

I don't think we can be optimistic about regular 3-4 month leagues for both games. If they don''t hire more ppl no way they can manage. Usually it takes like 2 weeks at least to fix/buff the ongoing league to please the players. They once said sth about starting PoE 2 league around 8 weeks into PoE 1, there is no way PoE 2 league won't also need some patched in first weeks. If PoE 2 league launches around 2 months into PoE 1 league you have like around 1 month left to the launch of another new PoE 1 league etc. Without way bigger team i don't think they can manage planning leagues for two games while fixing and patching ongoing ones, its just too optimistic of a take.

[@Mozokuni]

There is a timeline: WHEN THEY ARE READY!

[@robertmargist2411]

I think WASD was a gamechanger for me when it comes to PoE2. Like I might have 30+ years of doing mouse movement but going back to it is going to feel weird because currently I feel like I have so much more control of my character

[@iwantsaveu]

I believe GGG doesnt mention the timeline for poe1 updates because they don’t know how long it will take. Imagine announcing it and then delaying it again.

[@angrythomas6954]

theres no way poe2 only players make it to maps in poe 1 games just too different imo

[@raamzilla]

Who knew nontent creators reacting to each others nontent was the true endgame of poe2 🔥

[@EnderElohim]

I'm noob poe crafter. My biggest problem so far is i think they doing us and themself disfavor by creating a horrible version of new crafting on poe 2 alongside reversing tier order. As Jonathan said they creating more problems than solving any. They should kept crafting functionally same in both gave with exclusive tools in both game. EVERY currency that exist in both game should work the way it do in poe. Both game have exclusive currencies and crafting tools. Let say maybe harvest can be poe only and maybe recombinator can bring to poe 2 as exclusive or they can create totally new tool for poe 2 for crafting that not exist in poe. But what currently they doing is creating division and confusion that serve nobody!!! How the hell it was good idea to reverse tier order is that there to say fuck you poe players? Or is it there when somebody move to poe from poe 2 it is a way to say fuck you? I think they messed up big time and clearly they wanna helbend keeping it. They need to stop wasting dev time on creating a new crafting system that functionally bullshit. Also as a game developer maybe i should apply to ggg earlier than i expected currently i'm trying to finish my current game. Not sure if they would hire me but clearly they need more developer. IF they were hiring remotely i would start immediately as well but they dont offer that but also i'm from Turkiye so actually moving to nz is better idea than living in Turkiye XD

[@Sheriff_K]

I was hoping PoE2 would be MORE deterministic than PoE1 because Chris isn't involved.. but it seems like the OPPOSITE is the case, which is crazy to me. PoE1 needs MORE deterministic crafting, not less.

[@Cad_Ash]

They've shown they're no better than Blizz when it comes to commitments and communication. You can expect 1-2 more leagues for poe1 before it shutters and gets put on maintenance mode while all dev power moves to poe2.

[@bananapeel3529]

I don't think even a very good new league for poe1 will come close to the previous record. The current league success stands on a foundation of good design, yes, but those 220k on steam is largely the overall hype for aRPGs and poe *in anticipation* of poe2 at the time. And now poe2 launched and actually brought the bacon (pending fixes and new content), the hype has been realised in poe2. That's it. Poe1 is a very good game for nerds like us, 10y veterans. For 400k of those poe2 steam's 500k it will literally look like downgraded and overbloated poe2 that requires a lot of new learning. Idk man, it's simply unrealistic to expect any big surge for poe1. Last league it was THE aRPG. Now it's not, and you know how consumers behave.

[@blixkrogg]

"I don't understand why they wouldn't keep updating it." If you have to spend double the effort for each microtransaction because the microtransactions will be for two separate games, you will have every rational reason to either stop supporting cross-game microtransactions or you'll be more reluctant to spend resources on the older, less profitable game. Imagine having double the work with the same size dev team. Sure, they can hire; but, it's NZ and they don't have a lot of availability. They have to petition the government whenever they want to hire someone from outsize of the country. They are stuck with a limited labor pool to develop twice as many games. I don't think people who have been anxious about POE 1 are voicing this well, but they're feeling that is very possible. We can hope GGG does this right, but that's a hope and not a certainty -- hence the anxiety, and it's very rational. And realize that having two games that share the same revenue source -- the microtransactions -- will not bring you more money. GGG shouldn't have promised to support microtransactions for both games if they wanted to make more money. That's not going to work out as well as you'd hope. I don't think they've voiced this in any videos, but that's the reality they're facing.

[@elendarulianreo]

The reason people are pessimistic about PoE1's future is because GGG have given us no reason to think they have the capability to develop both games in parallel. While they made it work before PoE2 EA when they could work at their own pace on PoE2, now they need to deliver significant content for both games, with the only factor that is slightly in their favor being the fact PoE2 doesn't have a firm deadline for full release--but they can't just leave PoE2 players hanging. It's only going to get worse when PoE2 releases and they're locked in to having to produce expansions for both every 3-4 months, plus the inevitable 2+ weeks of post-launch support each league is going to need.

[@bloomleaf8310]

I think something else to consider is POE2 has pulled in a lot of casual people from games like D4 and I worry about the player count when our first league hits and the mechanics are not also playable in standard. Retention is great right now but how does this play out in a year if POE2 only goes up to say 160k a league and only retains like 90k will they be willing to keep both games running if that happens?

[@knappieboy]

I would love to see poe1 and 2 drop leagues every 3-4 months. The leagues do NOT need to be like settlers, i wouldnt mind if all of them were as simple as essence if it meant this is how they stay on track....

[@NoticeThisMusic]

if they majority of dadgamers leaves poe2 after the campaign we will probably get frequent poe1 updates in the future, if they will keep the current numbers for the next couple of months expect max 1 league a year

[@valjohnson7112]

i think those new players who have now tried poe2 and are curious about poe1 are a big part of the reason we dont have a poe1 league right now. ggg doesnt want them getting corrupted by the old game that they dont like. they want the new players playing their new game.

[@TeamPiz]

Of course they can develop both games simultaneously. The problem is time. They can't do both, at this stage, in a reasonable amount of time to keep people happy. Eventually they will work it out. Either get more devs or more time between leagues in the short to medium term. I'm not worried at all. 2025 might just be a tumultuous year for both games.

[@MikeyJ28]

Never underestimate how much money a new PoE 1 league will bring in from the whales alone.

[@Awisp_Gaming]

Not shocked that Kripp, the Ruthless guy, prefers POE2 and thinks it will kill POE1

[@voyagerrock1137]

or... we could just accept the honesty about the fact that they're uncertain, and not ask them to lie to us?

[@TheHMinnow]

Imo the best approach would be 2 teams, 4 month leagues, 2 month stagger between game leagues. I think it seems reasonable. They just need to ensure that poe 1 has the staggered January league just due to the likely development difficulty between the 2 games