We Test Concrete VS Foam To Settle The Debate

[@landmarkcreations1183]

It would be interesting to see the dry pack after say 6 months to a year. You guys are doing Gods work. Keep up the great content

[@SWiFence]

I think it’s gonna take longer for that for anything noticeable to happen. The dry pack actually works very well.

[@theobserver9131]

Gods work? Good grief.

[@henryvalero9235]

@@theobserver9131 From Lil Giant Good grief yourself, old man.

[@sniperpaddy3271]

WTF has god got to do with it, Trumper.

[@lelenbates3367]

If the Chinese invade we have KZbin commenters to defend us, they're salty and ready for keyboard warriorship. Thanks for the video, I just can't trust the foam. Between the smooth surface of the foam and lack of mass 1-2 lbs vs 240 lbs I definitely think concrete has the win. A telephone pole will definitely not have the wind load of a wooden fence, so they can safely use foam.

[@tafinzer]

Worked in the sign industry for 35 years. I dry-packed signposts the whole time. I have installed 5' by 10' electric signs that have to withstand strong wind loads with many hundreds of tons of pressure. There are signs that I installed 30 years ago that were strictly dry packed. They still hold up just fine. The thing about dry packing and the trick to it is to tamp it a few inches at a time with a rod. This compacts the soil in all directions. In my expert opinion, the dry packed post is sturdier because the soil has been tamped under and around the post. It takes more work to do this though.

[@alfredmalveo663]

Thank you ... I like it when a KZbin video delivers only the facts and only the facts based on the title of the video in a clear English voice with no background music to distract for the information being delivered ... I rate this video 5 stars and I have subscribed to your channel ...

[@marklee6701]

I do a lot of dry set and never have any issues but I also add water while doing the dry set. They were just allowing for the moisture in the soil to create the setting but in dry soil it will take forever to set it at all. Just add water to the hole and continue to add water until it stops absorbing. It’s simple, easy, and works great.

[@nomadicfenceman509]

It seems they took “dry set” literally, common sence should dictate that water is still needed, the advantage is eliminating the mixing work. As you well know.

[@stevee7774]

Yep, the instructions for the fast setting concrete specifically call for adding water. 🤦‍♂️

[@philipskrusso1153]

Mark did he say 18 inches deep and 4 bags of Crete?Do you first put in the dry concrete and then put water in?

[@marklee6701]

@@philipskrusso1153 I add water to the hole then the concrete then more water till it quits absorbing

[@davepadron2304]

@@nomadicfenceman509 ozozo oolog where e

[@aarongriffin6326]

i appreciate how much time and energy you guys put into doing this video! you did tests that apply to real world. 👍

[@SWiFence]

Thank you!

[@johnnycash1365]

I've never relied on water in the ground when using dry pack. I always add some water after each bag. Never had a problem.

[@SWiFence]

Good call. If we ever decided to dry pack we would do the same.

[@matthewhoffman9242]

We usually pour a little water in the hole, dump the bag in ,level the post and pour the rest of the water and pack wet concrete. If you can keep the end of the packing stick in the water whe packing you won't splash yourself...at least not as much

[@davehertle]

Advice I received from an Uncle over 60 years ago on how to properly put up a fence. 1) Dig post-holes until you are sick and tired of digging post-holes. 2) Plant fence posts until you are sick and tired of planting fence posts. 3) Stretch wire until you are sick and tired of stretching wire. 4) Go back to step One.

[@SWiFence]

Good stuff!

[@lydiacapps709]

@Hello David how are you doing

[@boots7859]

That was actually pretty damn good science guys. I actually found this looking at placing 24 6x6 piers for a 46x16 deck in 48" frost line NE. For that, I think I learned that since I'm going 60" deep, my below frostline cookies/base foot are gonna have to be wet crete.

[@cimmeriian]

I can't believe how much I actually enjoyed this video and laughed my butt off even though this is a very legitimate set of tests. Really appreciate it, thanks!

[@heavydinsc]

Guys, thanks for the comparison. Next time you do this, try putting a load cell on a chain to measure the amount of force required to pull over each pole. My guess is that the wet set will resist the most, and depending upon where you attach the chain, you might even bend the pipe on that one.

[@SWiFence]

Great suggestion! 👍🏻

[@johnagricola5954]

Wow, talk about going above and beyond to test a product. Bravo, FJB!!

[@SWiFence]

Thanks!

[@jimlemieux3971]

I am in Massachusetts. Not quite as cold as your area. But I did 56 sections of 5 ft x 8ft. cedar fence with metal posts. There are 3 gates 4 ft. wide, and a 14 foot opening with 7 foot gates. They are ALL done with foam. 8 inch holes 2 ft. deep. the post is hammered in an additional foot. The fence is now 8 or 9 years old and still as straight as the day it was put up. I even had a tree take out a section with very little post movement. I don't know if I am allowed to say what foam I used, but I'm going to. It is called Secure Set. it is 6 lb. closed cell foam. I really like this stuff.

[@charlescook6195]

When I set a post I pour water in the hole and dry pack the concrete tamping and adding water as I come to the top of the hole. It creates a very sturdy footer even before the concrete sets. It makes it much more difficult for posts to be knocked out of line while they are setting up.

[@MrBmxbrawler]

Sturdy my ass. Mix the concrete before hand

[@travisjazzbo3490]

Exactly... not rocket science... makes perfect sense.

[@rubes1688]

@@MrBmxbrawler it’s pretty darn sturdy

[@rb9204]

Really nice video, helpful to see some real world examples/tests on these approaches. One comment I'd add is regarding the foam. The disadvantage I see with all of these new foam products (sealing basements, mounting poles, attic insulation, etc) is that we really need to start to consider what happens to this material at the end of its life. Yes, it will last for a long time, but nothing lasts forever. I fear having all of these foam applications will leave us with a disposal nightmare in a few decades. Not that humans are good at thinking a head all that often.

[@twf5822]

When I say I’m dry packing a post, i dig the hole, set the post, dump as many bags needed to fill the hole about 85% after packing it then pour the recommended amount of water per bag. It will start to Percolate through the concrete. By the time u set 2 to8-10-12 post that first one is already setting up good. For me when I’m replacing a post for a customer it takes 1.5 to 2 60 bags of concrete mix per hole. When dry packing I don’t have any set time and can attach the panels and move to the next post that might 6 panels up the fence line. Any fence I built I use 3 2x4 attached to the post with screws and L brackets. Each 5.5”x6’ picket gets 6 screws. Loved the video , I have heard about using foam but this is the first time seeing. Of course we don’t get much freezing in so cal.

[@SWiFence]

Dry packing is very common. Many let the ground moisture cure the concrete over time rather than add water when done. Personally we are driving more and more due to the way it holds up over time with no frost issues. Cheers!

[@Dougster123]

FOURTH METHOD: DRY-WET HYBRID: If you have two people there's no need to brace the pole - one person holds the pole and applies a level, while the other person pours and mixes: 1. Pour in dry, filling only 1/3 of hole, add small amounts of water while stab mixing. 2. Repeat for filling the second third of the hole. 3. Repeat for filling the remainder of the hole. Great video 👍

[@imushavem7504]

Exactly what I do with wife as a helper. I honestly don't trust foam yet. I know it can last a long time, but it tends to weaken with time. On the other hand, cement gets stronger.

[@bigp6071]

Exactly. I use this method and my posts aren’t going anywhere. Another benefit is, you could build on the post immediately if you wanted to.

[@richardmeades4796]

I wrapped my 6 X 6 posts with "Resisto" which is used as an underlay for roofing. It has a sticky side where you peel off the membrane before applying it. Posts I set over 10 years ago are still holding up. The membrane goes up about 10 inches above ground level. I backfill with earth and compact it down with a 2 X 4 as I fill the side up. I live just west of Montreal where we get rain, snow, hot summers and freezing cold winters. This technique has worked well for me. .

[@SWiFence]

I've seen similar systems promoted. I prefer steel still.

[@lowridingtrucks88]

@@SWiFence just wondering how much would be a 4x4 steel post for a home fence?

[@marklythall8712]

A very interesting test, really appreciated the information provided. Something to remember though is sometimes having a weaker foundation is advantage as nothing lasts forever and if something needs replacing or repair, having a system where it is not difficult to remove objects can be helpful. I often have a concrete base, fill the middle with dirt and the top 1/4-1/3 solid concrete. Generally solid enough but you can break the post out with a crow bar later on with out needing a negative g machine.

[@SWiFence]

thanks

[@bigviel3298]

Have you had to take out your own posts? Cause concrete base then dirt then concrete and sono tube is pretty strong, stronger than just concrete.

[@backyardbuilttrucks1]

Set thousand of feet of posts. Dig hole , fill with water , pour cement in and walk away. 3 days later string fence . That was using steel , 4x4 and even landscaped timbers as posts . Never had a issue 20 plus years later. Oiled wood posts once every 3 years .

[@SecondLife777]

When you say oil do you mean the tops/end grain? What oil did you use?

[@alexnutcasio936]

Valvoline or Quaker State?

[@travisjazzbo3490]

@@alexnutcasio936 Pennzoil Synthetic... 5W30

[@ststst981]

Put the post in before water and cement?

[@JoseOrtiz-zx8sf]

I oil my wood more often and has lasted me more than 40 years :).

[@jasonlenihan9854]

This is a well thought out well planned quality video. I’ve been in construction for years and I already know all this stuff but this was a very fun video to watch. The combination of your good attitudes fun talk and great sense of humors and most important ability to explain the process and what you’re doing for someone who’s never done it,was excellent. Anyways keep up the great work you got a good core group of guys there I predict big things for you guys. 👍

[@factoverfeeling4537]

I just did nine post with Sitka and it is very spongy strong winds hit after the storm in Portland Oregon and I had to come back two weeks later dig out all the foam and put cement in each hole there’s also a weight factor thousand pounds of cement compared to 20 pounds of foam holding down your fence. Foam for dry climates hard soil. I used another foam from Home Depot that came in 2 gallon jugs that set up Denser and I used it on a vinyl fence and capped the foam with cement and it worked beautifully. Happy customer beautiful fence no worries of posts working themselves loose from the wind.

[@SWiFence]

Joe Everest did a video on the Sitka product compared to others and found it was the worst on the market. They weren’t very happy with his video. You are confirming what he found.

[@rgoldsmith6560]

I used Sitka also, I would not use again, loose and soft, very light duty stuff, fence is already getting looser, I expect I'll be redoing it soon.

[@babysinclair425]

Damn that bell sound was defenetly a shock wave. It felt like it was ringing like here live. Thank you!!!👍

[@charlessavoree2893]

Awesome video.! ! ! Thank you for all your time and money put into this experiment. GREAT TEST.

[@SWiFence]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@stevecrain9874]

Great channel Sir! I'm a Civil Engineer and commercial General Contractor. There is a lot that goes into a concrete mix design. There is a specific water content to portland cement ratio (w/c) to yield a maximum compressive strength. Other things and ratios come into play when evaluating concrete durability, air content, whats the end use, etc... In the video you mention the yield strength, it is actually compressive strength. Keep up the great videos! Steve C, P.E. (Professional Engineer)

[@SWiFence]

Thanks for sharing!

[@gary24752]

You forgot to mention how the aggregate in bagged mix segregates during transit which is why it should always be mixed.

[@georgespaloss5895]

I guess we are lucky here in the northeast(New Jersey)area your ground looks a lot rockier,we just mark all the post locations,measure down from the top for the post height,place two magnetic levels,then push them in the solid ground with the bobcat bucket,but we would have to wet pour our corners and gate posts.l really your bracing techniques I’m going to try the bent rods to brace the wet posts.Great video!

[@davidmcrae5183]

A great comparison. Thanks for takin the time to really test the differences. The removal and examination of each method shows a lot more detail that just reading the packaging info.

[@ikeknights]

I’m curious about cost difference vs. time manual labor.

[@kevinhuddleston4219]

Manual labour difference none of you have a concrete truck dropping your concrete in the post holes eh.

[@samfrancisco8095]

Manuel charges $100/day under the table because he is illegal.

[@Dirtyharry70585]

@@kevinhuddleston4219 that’s if you can get that heavy bitch in. Not every hole is next to the road

[@kevinhuddleston4219]

@@Dirtyharry70585 true that.

[@Dranok1]

@@Dirtyharry70585 depends how valuable that post is: witg the right plasticizer you can pump it 20 storeys up or 800m away 😉

[@Awesomeness12388]

You guys had me laughing out loud🤣 thank you for the test! Coming from a first time home owner & fence builder looking for the best methods

[@SWiFence]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@oralpowers7932]

For the homeowner going to Home Depot you might want to pick the foam option, it's lighter, it's not corrosive on your lungs and sets faster. 35 bags of concrete will sink the shocks on your van and paying for delivery is expensive. Wet set can be a problem if you need to replace a post but unfortunately there's the old concrete plug right where the new post needs to be. With dry pack you might have a chance of replacing a post.

[@SWiFence]

Better yet, drive them!

[@jlester4892]

@@SWiFence Not an option for a homeowner doing a DIY project.

[@chuckdavis7681]

Concrete tends to continue to hydrate (cure) as long as water is available. The foundations for the grandstands at Wiggly Field measured at 7500 psi when tested with a 2500 psi mix. I'd expect both concrete foundations to continue to get stronger with time.

[@JO-ly3hi]

Wiggly field😂😆😂

[@ColonelSandersLite]

@@JO-ly3hi Yup. Home of the Piggly.

[@stoweman34]

I’d like to see this same test with 4x4 PT (used more in the PAC NW). Thanks for the great vid!

[@SWiFence]

Great point!

[@Dan-qk4ns]

One of the best videos I've seen on the performance of these types of post settings! Way to go. Thanks

[@SWiFence]

Thanks!

[@Leolioness44]

FYI Florida is putting in cement utility poles in the Florida sand. I don't know what they're using to set them? But it is a question of concern and now that I have seen your demonstration with products used to set the post I'm curious about the cement utility lines they are much heavier than timber for sure. As soon as they were installed and the surrounding communities I have seen several fall. Not to mention that I know for sure to had been hit by vehicles and Came Crashing Down. It was probably the reason why two of the accidents were fatality. I say that because the cement utility pole fell on top of the vehicle that crashed into it. Now I really wonder what it is they use to to set those cement poles. Great demonstration thanks for all the time and effort it took

[@joemc111]

Good class, I couldn’t believe The foam stuff was that good, Wet mix is the way to go. First time on your channel.

[@SWiFence]

Thank you!

[@williamwallace1745]

I agree.. Wet mix is the way I do it

[@stewartperry7797]

Excellent work! Helps all us single post home owners make solid decisions!

[@SWiFence]

I’m glad you find it helpful!

[@lydiacapps709]

@Hello Stewart how are you doing

[@garyrollings1998]

Love this video it Shows contractors Are goofballs When trying to outdo one another. Glad I ran across this video

[@fryefencecurbscapingllc9817]

Love the videos, keep em coming. I would like to see the comparison of dry set with water poured on top. I say this because that is what Quikrete engineers recommend. They have no mention of even packing the dry concrete. Simply dry pour it and add water to the top....... Just a thought...... Thanks again, awesome videos.

[@SWiFence]

I don't think we would see much change as long as there is adequate moisture in the ground.

[@briangc1972]

I've never seen that in writing from any concrete supplier. Where did you hear that?

[@fryefencecurbscapingllc9817]

@@briangc1972 QuikRete website, QuikRete youtube how to videos and its on some of the bags.

[@colin-manyeates-clan5221]

So my three sense from experience. It is not so much the filler as much as the ground firmness. I'm on Maryland and I've done lot of 4x4 posts, 6ft fence and 9ft fencing. I go three feet down with a auger bit just a bit bigger than the 4x4 then put the dirt on all four sides 6inches and pound pound pound, I use the metal pole with the head broken off and use that end after pre-pound with a piece of one of the slats from the stockade fence. Add 6in of loose dirt and pound pound pound then heavy pound with metal bar. Repeat all the way up and generally I have to have extra dirt on hand to make a mound and pound to slope water away. The space should only take up enough dirt to fill the area where there is no wood but when pounding it tightens the ground around it and that is why it all fits into that small space and then some.. That is the trick!!!! I have replace all sorts of concrete crap that just pushed over in the loose or wet soil. With my method I have never had a problem 20 years later and even the 9ft fence was the only one standing when a nasty storm (diminished hurricane) came through and it saved the house from flying debris. I got a lot of jobs after that "test". What is with the pulling up and out business?? What matters is that it does not wobble back and forth!! Period. Oh I like the "oil" every three years as suggested below... and yes the metal even the thick galvanized will rust and break at ground level which I use oil and then a short bit of PVC All the best .. good stuff though on the video... (though it was proof of what we knew already and foam will hold moisture and deteriorates in just a few months so big waist of time and money there. The extra time it takes to pound the dirt properly is more than offset by the time and expense of getting and loading and unloading and mixing and shoveling and poring and all that nonsense with concrete!!! And as stated al too often the whole lump of concrete just tips over.. though usually the depth is very shallow ... but you guys went over two feet so it would be less but they still will wobble due to wind turning it into a roller coaster ride along the fence.

[@woodman1701]

I like the concept of drypack dirt. In this part of the country it’s mostly clay, and rainy. The soil gets too wet to tamp. Also most of my customers ask for concrete. If I lived in drier country I’d prob do like you do.

[@sandcrabspa4299]

This is the most informative construction channel....amazing

[@SWiFence]

Thanks 👍

[@sandcrabspa4299]

@@SWiFence Too bad Fencing is your only Forte.

[@mattsergel5704]

I like the content your putting out here. I personally work with guys who like to put the water in the hole and then pour dry concrete in the hole and they claim it works better. I never do this and always mix concrete while they cut corners. It never sets up as strong because I have pulled post right out of the ground. I guess I'm just old school.

[@SWiFence]

We order all our mud from a concrete company in trucks. Most of what we do is commercial where they would never allow any of this. Our goal is to show the difference and let folks decide for themselves.

[@disabledusnvet.8771]

@@SWiFence Good video, but, when working in freezing temps, calcium chloride is often added in while working in or around freezing temps or some other form of antifreeze agent which helps keep the mud from freezing while it sets up and cures, also some form of an insulating blanket is also used sometimes. By adding certain types of agent(s), it also helps it to be greatly stronger when cured... maybe you could do a video about that... which is the best method???

[@RogerSteinbrinkh2oBrother]

I agree. If you read the instructions on the bag of concrete it says MIX!

[@tedn2205]

Add some sort of horizontal element to the portion of the post buried underground to see if that will benefit the process.

[@whasumara73]

Thank you. Will it work if I pour a 50lb bag of Quikrete into a wheelbarrow, add a gallon of water, mix with a shovel then pour the mixture into the post hole?

[@williamgrissom9022]

Very helpful tests. Is 7 days enough for the concrete to cure? Wet-set needs about 30 days to reach ~90% of final strength. I would think much longer for the dry-set since water must first migrate into it from the ground. A TV episode showed California state employees capping off abandoned vertical mine shafts for safety, using polyurethane foam. They cover the shaft with plastic sheet then pour the mixed foam on, forming a hemispherical plug, flat on top. After curing, they cover with dirt and it will support a truck driving over it.

[@SWiFence]

Pro tip: on a hot day in dry ground, concrete is hard enough to start building on in a matter of hours. This is why we never brace our posts yet they stay put. In the summer we will pour posts before noon and start building after lunch. Its not at full compressive strength but its usually hard enough to hold up the fence. The next day its already hard enough to bend/break the post without hurting the concrete.

[@lydiacapps709]

@Hello William How are you doing

[@billmorris2613]

Your results were just as I expected. I have always used wet concrete to set fence posts.

[@KC-jq9kw]

My father worked for a latex company, and one day we went to see him at work and the lab guy who developed the foams let us check out the lab and he mixed stuff up. They had stuff that was harder than concrete. We were hitting it with sledge hammers and it wouldn't even dent it.

[@SWiFence]

😯

[@dilipanthonypinto1620]

Do you the the specific foam materials he used?

[@hpflax9488]

Please let me know because I was going to go to Home Depot Lowe's for foam so is it the same item because the concrete really is very heavy

[@elfillari]

My pole needs something new to staying hard with wet soft hot soil to penetrating with! I was using that blue thing with water, but now I'm convinced to going with that foaming stuffing 😮

[@chrisforgan731]

for timber posts just backfill with soil and ram well a dry hole is harder to ram but will pack tighter. steel post must be concreted to 3 inches above ground level to stop the rusting off so quick.

[@michaelpinto9357]

I do dryset but only with the Quikcrete Fastset, red bag. It requires less moisture content to bond, and states on the bag it is rated for dryset.

[@SWiFence]

Interesting

[@elkskiutah8204]

I think the concerns of frozen ground is that it's expanded and when it thaws there will basically be a gap around the concrete fill. I think the heat genera foam or cement under ground would help it cure but also thaw that ground of it was frozen. That foam is messy. Dry pack looked like it would be adequate.

[@derekwunder865]

Really appreciate the thoroughness and the scientific approach!!

[@mangravy2000]

If you're using galvanized pipe, fencing a property likely to be yours for decades then use the sure thing, wet concrete. Our family has a few that are over 50 years old and still going strong.

[@ACT0080]

My dad taught me the dry pack method, only we added water and packed it with the back of a shovel.

[@reasoningtruth]

Up here in wet rainy Oregon, some of us use Pea Gravel for the post. It helps a few ways, like if the post moves even a fraction in the wind the gravel sinks and tightens the post continually never letting the post get loose. (Just keep the pea gravel capped off). Also, the water has a drain away from the post ground level so the water rot in that spot is no longer a problem. Another way it helps is that there is no concrete mixing! Many up here think it's faster and better.

[@SWiFence]

🤔

[@randomgamer-st1ie]

If the post warps and needs replaced, the rocks will fall down when you pull the post. Then what? Pull it all out a handful at a time? Too much work.

[@reasoningtruth]

@@randomgamer-st1ie If you don't have an auger, I guess that's what you'll need to do. But pulling the pea gravel out by hand on one hole to me would be much easier than pouring concrete on every hole, then constantly having to do repair work on ground level rot on all the polls. Luckily, we don't see that dreadful warping you mentioned, at any rate!

[@Lookin4Things]

Well? Somebody had to go threw all that intensive work, might as well been you guy's, Thank you for all your time and effort on this.

[@estimatecoordinator8158]

The effort was much appreciated, fellas!

[@SWiFence]

Thanks so much!

[@2chipped]

1200 vs 5000 psi on a fence post isn't really worth bothering over,except as scientific study. In zone 8 we have no frost. For me when I installed. Sandy-swampy soils get dry-packed or mix-in hole. It all depends on your zone ,soil type,and water table. For example holes were 3 ft deep,water-table is 6inches -4 ft . Wet-set in hole 6 in posts ,holding 8+1 X 50 cantilever gates. One of my last jobs was a 200 ft x20 ft soundbarrier fence in pure beach sand,and 300 yards from the Atlantic. It survived a hurricane ,posts were 6 ft on center, 800 lbs of sakreet mixed in the hole. Am really enjoying these tests! Am not a fan of foam,but only tried it 3 times. Coredrilling and setting posts with anchoring is what I really enjoyed.

[@SWiFence]

Totally agreed. We see specs for 4500 psi concrete which is ridiculous given that the post will fail using 500 psi.

[@viajandomundo421]

Great video!! Thanks. I was considering dryset, but will go for wetset after watching this.

[@audreyasbey3745]

Ok solved my problem. Will be wet set for my project. The ring of that pile of wet set said it all.

[@DigitalBenny]

Run some bolts through the post in the foam before setting it and it should have wayyyyy more pull-out resistance 😉

[@stevecraven4497]

Yes very good advice. I have done the same with long bolts or screws in different sides of post in different heights in the concrete.

[@bobbybaucom4489]

I have used 16D galvanized nails in wood posts set in concrete for pole barn construction to increase pull out resistance. Don't know how much it increases the resistance but I figure it does increase it.

[@piggjf]

I was thinking some holes in the poles to allow for the foam to expand inside, but this sounds like a good idea, too.

[@yamspaine]

I had so much trouble taking out an old fence that I wanted the new one to be made with easier to remove material... So I was thinking the Urethane foam may be good enough, and it costs about the same, but can be hauled in my sedan in one trip...

[@bobbybaucom4489]

@@yamspaine of nothing else you can run a sawzall down into the foam to make pulling the pole easier. Can't do that with concrete.

[@daveyoung354]

I'd be interested in seeing the same test but with round wooden posts.

[@mdeamicis]

Wood in contact with concrete rots. This is because concrete pulls moisture from soil, and then the wood whicks that moisture into the air. The moisture moving through the wood destroys it.

[@disabledusnvet.8771]

@@mdeamicis He should use Simpson Teco Clips/Strong-Ties for wood posts/concrete use, they come powder coated or galvanized either hot-dipped or electroplated... buried sono-tubes for concrete... problem solved...

[@joshsmith9765]

Would y'all consider recreating this experiment with wood such as a typical pressure treated 4x4 and/or cedar 4x4? I am sure the most data will be comparable I am curious about the adhesion properties of each method.

[@SWiFence]

I will put it on the list of ideas. Thanks for watching.

[@gary24752]

There will never be adhesion between the concrete and wood. The concrete will retain water between the concrete and the post, the post will become saturated and when it does dry it will shrink, thus making the water situation worse and eventually causing the post to rot.

[@Doinprettygood]

If you use the foam, pack dirt on top of the foam when it is getting close to the top and kinda stand in it or pack it down so that the foam pushes out ward then to create a sort of fuller hole.

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Many thanks for your video. Wet set is all I've known about and the other two options are interesting. Your presentation style: super! I'm now a subscriber.

[@SWiFence]

Glad it was helpful!

[@benvoeller8946]

The utility my brother works for in ND uses clean rock in areas where the ground is "swampy". I started using this method many years ago and have found it to not only be the most economical (next to just putting the dirt back) but the most effective and easiest. Rock almost packs itself with just a little vibration and makes the post easy to remove if needed. If the post should lean can be easily straightened and a little more gravel packed around it and just keeps getting tighter. Additionally posts don't rot or rust in rock like they do in concrete. Just my 2 cents. At today's inflation rate possibly worth as much as a nickel.

[@yippikiyay197]

no concrete, just pure rock? what size?

[@Mang213]

This is not a bad suggestion at all. A mix of good rock and some small amount of concrete would probably be as good as full concrete

[@henrycorrea9586]

I welded 4 inch bolts onto the bottom portion of the posts before pouring in the concrete for a super strong hold. Still strong 4 years and counting...

[@SWiFence]

Yes this is fairly common.

[@mikldude9376]

A great demonstration of the different post securing methods , thanks guys.

[@hpflax9488]

Awesome video! I haven't seen all the videos yet but will this actually work from less mess with a vinyl post? For a homeowner vinyl fence from a big-box store

[@SWiFence]

You can use any of these methods on vinyl.

[@FireflyHill24]

In Michigan we almost always use treated 4x4 for fence posts. I always use pea gravel or some kind of washed stone. To back fill the hole

[@mkl5448]

I don't think anybody's going to question that wet concrete is superior. But, we are talking about fence posts here, attached to a privacy fence. All three methods going to work perfectly fine for a majority of the viewers. Dry pack is simply easier to achieve, and yields excellent results, as far as holding power. Obviously adding water and tamping it take it up a notch, but still.

[@tophers2]

I did a test with Sika foam and I am convinced it is not the same as the industrial foam set application. I noticed the post twisted more when drying as well as the packs that you get are more expensive as well as you need more for larger holes. I have seen the hydro company use foam but it can’t be the same stuff

[@rebeccaflynn331]

I used Sika last year, it pulls away from the post after a day, complete failure. I did have better luck with Fast2K.

[@donaldmarcato7003]

Cheers from a ChemE on talking about exothermic reactions; you guys really know your stuff. Great video, thanks!

[@SWiFence]

Thanks!

[@steveadams4009]

@@SWiFence I thought you guys drove your posts?

[@petekeberlein5577]

The more north you go, the deeper the hole. Up in the U.P. we'll drill down minimum 48" depending on the type of fence and height. Foam is fine for ground with little to no frost. Wet setting is more for commercial fencing where strict codes are enforced. Been fencing with my cousin since I was 17.......46 now, lol and in all those years I'm proud to drive by all my work in the ground. Did you guys drill big holes on the bottom of your vinyl posts to allow concrete to flow into the post and lock it in place? Without the hole the post WILL slide out (heave up) of the concrete because of moisture and changes in weather (nothing holding the post to the concrete).

[@SWiFence]

We stab our vinyl into the hole that is already full of concrete. For this reason we don’t use the large hole to lock in the post. The way we do it there is concrete inside and outside the post and it’s impossible to get the post to release from the concrete....we’ve tried.

[@DarrLaw]

What a great video. You really put in the hard work to show the differences!

[@SWiFence]

Thanks!

[@simonpaine91]

I used a dry set, but gave the hole a good soaking with water first , post is solid , 15 years later

[@SWiFence]

I feel that's best if you want to dry pack.

[@lydiacapps709]

@Hello Simon how are you doing

[@simonpaine91]

@@lydiacapps709 fine thank you Lydia, hope all is well with you

[@lydiacapps709]

@@simonpaine91 Yes of course I hope we can get to know each other if you don’t mind

[@johnyMilsom]

Hey I also see you guys hydraulically driving potion so just depend on the type of ground? I just wanted to do a perimeter commercial chain-link fence I see a lot of people driving them in with hydraulic drivers either office skid steer or them hand gas powered ones are hand hydraulic ones what are your thoughts on that?

[@johnatella8498]

Can I use the regular cement (not the quickset) dry? Also, why don't you also do one dry set where you add water to the hole. I have 6X6 Tamarack posts that are 13-14' tall. In my area, I can't get deeper than 3' due to rocky ground. I am only hanging welded wire to keep the rabbits and deer out of my orchard. Area is 50X50.

[@SWiFence]

Yes, the dry pack we used was regular cement, not quickset. We should do a test with dry set and add water--it's been mentioned a few times. 👍🏻

[@bobnorman8397]

Are these guys contractors or School teachers because I am very impressed with that what I have learned from this video

[@johnjacobs4207]

in my experience the wet concrete needs to be above ground at least 4 inches then worked to slope away from center or else the steel will rust in time and fail

[@tylerrosborough9566]

If you have a good Galv post it won't make any difference. In Ontario I've seen both while doing removals , splits front water filled posts and kinks from being hit are the only thing that causes rot . I agree 100% for residential grade though

[@lydiacapps709]

@Hello John how are you doing

[@disabledusnvet.8771]

@@tylerrosborough9566 They all rot out over time unless you are working with a decent grade of Stainless Steel pipe. Saltwater destroys everything except S.S.

[@tylerrosborough9566]

@@disabledusnvet.8771 we don't have that salt water problem up here , schedule 40 galv will last forever. I've been able to wrap a chain and pull 50 + year old posts . Only time we have those issues is when the fence is right beside the road , 20 feet off the road and the road salt doesn't effect it much

[@disabledusnvet.8771]

@@tylerrosborough9566 ...on Long Island, surrounded by saltwater... it's in the air...

[@girich5473]

You know when you spoke of the sound of the sledgehammer hitting the concrete. I'm a retired truck driver. I would use a hammer to thump the tires. When heard a high pitch sound the tires had the right pressure and low thump ment a low tire pressure. Same to knocking on a watermelon, high thump solid melon. Low thump meant soft over ripped melon. So high thump sound solid, low thump sound less solid.

[@timtrainer10]

Great video. I have less faith in that dry poor after seeing this video. So after doing this experiment and you were to do foam to install a fence, would you still do concrete for the corner posts and posts that you were going to put a gate on? I’m definitely skeptical of putting a gate on a post that had a foam pour. Thank you

[@SWiFence]

We have yet to build any fence with foam. Not really interested.

[@johnjacobjinglehimerschmid3555]

You mention that utility companies are using this foam stuff which is fine. But what is the % of buried pole to exposed pole and what's the ratio of diameter of pole to diameter of poured foam. I get that it might be stronger but a 4 inch hole holding a 2 in pipe might not be enough. Should the hole be min of 6in across or does it need to be like an 8in hole?

[@louish.9414]

What if I dig 3” extra. And foot wide and use 6x6 brackets instead

[@cyclesingsleep]

Fantastic content...and humor! I guess that my only question is, how strong does a fence post 'foundation' need to be? In other words, what load does a fence post take and therefore, is just packed clay and rocks good enough...or foam, dry pack, wet set? ...guess climate and soil types have a lot to do with what is best along with metal vs. wood posts (does material around the post affect rust or rot time).

[@jopolitesse]

I love you guys. Best idea and video I've seen all month! THANK YOU! I could never do this myself, obvs.

[@SWiFence]

Thanks for the encouragement!

[@DonaldAJr]

I love the video but I only have one problem with it lol. You didn't do the method I was taught years ago. Fill the Hole Halfway With Water, then put 1/8th bag of Dry Concrete in The Hole, then The Post in the hole, then put the Rest of The Dry Concrete around it - 2 or 3 inches from the top, and cover with dirt. Basically it mixes itself.

[@philipskrusso1153]

Ok 👍,this is what I was looking for.How many bags of Crete? How deep the hole?

[@DonaldAJr]

@@philipskrusso1153 what are you trying to set, a small fence post or a telephone pole. Buy what you think you need, my memory says it's either 50 or 80 pounds is a little cheaper. Secondarily if a wooden or galvanized post 4 inches of gravel at the bottom for drainage and less wood rot. Never put the cut end down. Lastly Never fill the hole 100% of the way, leave 6 inches for dirt. Looking at concrete is ugly and sloppy. Lastly it's not really cured for something like 6 months. Have a great day.

[@DonaldAJr]

@@philipskrusso1153 also how deep for let's say a 6 privacy fence. Wood should 4X4 should be a minimum of 3 feet depending upon how long and how much wind it will catch. I'd try to look up ciry or county codes if there's such a thing. Also if a fence, it might help to watch a few videos on that.

[@philipskrusso1153]

@@DonaldAJr Thanks Donald.I have a metal awning on back of my home that isn't finished.I was wondering how deep the metal poles go in the ground.

[@DonaldAJr]

@@philipskrusso1153 I'd say a lot of factors can go into place. You said, the job isn't finished. My thoughts are, are trying remove it or finish it. If remove, that could be a monster of a task. Rent a Mini Escalator, hook a chain to a poll and pull it out of the ground. Otherwise it's tons of labor hand digging to the bottom and you need a went concrete saw to cut the concrete in manageable pieces. If it isn't horrendous you might just think about having the job completed. If you and your friends / family are not doing the job it's probably a wiser decision to completed the task. Then maybe it adds value to the house. I hope this gives you some information and maybe wisdom to make a better decision. It might be a damned if you do and damned if you don't meaning both are horrible decisions.

[@michaeljames8408]

AWESOME Video Guys... That was a lot of Hard Work,,, but I appreciate the trouble You went through as it was very Educational..

[@dsulli7383]

Utility company probably likes the fact that the posts are easy to remove as well. And do they use foam for wood poles as well? Maybe the foam keeps wood from rotting unlike concrete. I’m experimenting with packing 3/8 crushed clean rock and using no concrete. My late neighbor was an old time logger who knew a lot about everything. He said I’m wasting my time using concrete so I switched. He said I was spending more time and money to just make my post rot away quicker. I was thinking yea I don’t think it will stay solid. Then I tried it and realized it is every bit as sturdy as concrete, especially when it’s included in an H brace. And it still has drainage and no chemical reaction.

[@Dirtyharry70585]

Well after 3hrs you can build on foam. I watched a utility company set wood poles using foam in fla after hurricane Michael. They do so since there’s a lack of water and they mix in hole plus in sand side loading is bad for all. Homes in the area that used concrete in fencing, turned those in flying sledgehammers to the neighborhoods two story roofs. I’m not sure of the code but most were one bag in sand soil. Those houses looked like a fire hose was inside for hours!

[@K0gashuk0]

What type of supplier can I get that foam from? I can find it but not in that volume.

[@HenryDoohickeyII]

Around here in SE Washington lots of Fence companies just do dry pack but they add water before and after putting the post and concrete in. But we have lots of soft dirt in most places so it’ll be much harder than the surrounding dirt.

[@SWiFence]

Its common all over the country

[@psychicspy]

I use the steel bar method. 1. Dig a hole with a post hole digger. 2. Place the post in the hole. 3. Use a 1 inch dia steel bar (not a pipe) to compact the soil as someone slowly adds it to the hole. I have not set a fence post in concrete in 30 years.

[@jamesbates2016]

I want to see a video comparison of fastset and water mix in the hole and a post that has been pounded.

[@SWiFence]

Great idea!

[@DigitalBenny]

Notice that ringing sound? Yeah... It was the side of your pickup ringing as concrete bounced off of it 😂

[@williamevans6522]

The drypack's only advantage is fast install time. But it should topped off with H20. Maybe very hot water in your climate zone. It is definately weaker, tho.

[@slydog7131]

How important is the vertical resistance? I've never seen a fence pulled up out of the ground by nature.

[@SWiFence]

Excellent point. Vertical resistance is almost useless. All well-set posts will have some amount of vertical resistance as a natural by-product, but it's not an important part of fence structure. You're absolutely right--there's no anti-gravity that we have to protect against.

[@premiernc100]

As far as the foam goes, I think you can continue to build the fence the same day as you put the posts in, saving a bunch of client waiting time.

[@robertcompton6281]

Good vid. Should do a cost comparison too. 4 bags per hole.At what cost. Vs 1/2 bucket of foam at what cost

[@SWiFence]

Foam is about 2x the cost.

[@davidshutte9755]

I am a structural engineer and I recommend that with this foam product you go narrower and deeper holes

[@davidshutte9755]

@@galacticunderground1 and using same or less material

[@Sgt.k]

Good video. I think the larger engineering concern would be frost under the post raising the post up.

[@gary24752]

I would like to see how well compacted no. 8 or 10 crushed gravel would work. If they poured directly from the bag the mix will be lousy as the agregate segregates during transit. Bag mix has to be thoroughly mixed. The utility companies are using foam because the foam encapsulates the pole and helps to prevent rot as well as stabilizing the pole making it a cost effective move for the utility companies.

[@steveadams4009]

I would be curious to see them tested as to pulling post for stretching wire or hanging heavy gates.

[@SWiFence]

I can’t imagine we would see much different results. We already know which is toughest.