Weird Ways To Get Legendary TUNGSTEN; Underground Belts! | 43 | Factorio SPACE AGE

[@penguindrummaster]

1:16 You say you can get the legendary carbon from legendary coal, but I'm sitting here yelling at the screen "You're getting your legendary coal *from* the legendary carbon from carbonic asteroids!"

[@bearmike_360KB]

Me too.

[@Elkaasje]

Or you guys watch the whole video. He addresses this very point later on.

[@ShootLiegh]

He addressed later that he knows and just wanted to do it this way for the build.

[@88porpoise]

There are two obvious arguments for Nilaus to go with that. The first is that, if coal is nearby, you don't need to connect it to the train network to bring in the legendary coal. A more Nilaus specific reason is that it allows for a better set of blueprints to make available on Patreon for people who maybe don't have a lot of legendary coal from orbit.

[@TubeNewrome]

After 100+ hours in space age I actually like how quality was implemented. There are so many different ways to get legendary materials - fast&easy but wasteful, more and more complex ways, but more effective And you can choose different ways for different materials and different planets

[@Şehsaid]

Yeah normally you *HAVE TO* Do that or this to get the materials you need in base but space age gives enough flexibility to enjoy engineering more while restraining you enough so that it doesn't feel cheaty

[@submachinegun5737]

I think the fact that it’s optional is also key, you can beat the entire game without it just like beating base game without modules. The legendary grind kind of is the space age equivalent of the t3 module grind in 1.0 just way more complex and interesting

[@NukeMarine]

Most important is taking advantage of the "infinite" resources. Tungsten though is not infinite so the upmost care should be taken with it in any upscaling. Yeah, I get we can always expand so everything is infinite, but this is about creating walk away infinite.

[@88porpoise]

@@TubeNewrome My issues with quality are pretty much all in the UI. The addition of quality has resulted in many things taking an extra click or two to do. I don't know home many times I closed a window without doing what I wanted where it would have been done pre-quality. Similarly, Nilhaus' comments here about not being able to just change the quality but also have to reselect the item has been quite frustrating. Or how if setting logistics requests for two rarities of the same item you have to click the rarity first. I wish that on a production building you had separate selectors for the good you want and the quality. I think it would just streamline the UI so much. More minor quibbles are the inability to use a higher quality input as a lower quality one (of course this has other benefits) and general storage clutter from it exist.

[@AileTheAlien]

@@88porpoise Are you playing on the non-experimental version of the game? They separated the quality-selector from the recipe-selector last week, and it defaults to normal quality. Logistic requests are still extra clicks, however. 🤔

[@sirgaz8699]

A trick I'm using on my quality farm of Fulgora for stacking from recyclers. Recycler dumps into a box, a combinator reads the box contents and divides by 16; that outputs into a stack inserter set to "set filters". Now the stack inserter will only swing for items that have 16 items and will never jam (I have to use epic boxes for Fulgora scrap recycling as they spit out 18 different items at 5 qualities so I need all but 1 of the 91 slots)

[@wesleysmith5275]

nice design, im going to implement that

[@MR0KITTY]

I didn't even know there was a legit use case for chest rarity until this post

[@ZZEFIRKA]

Thats genius! Thank you

[@Radioisotoast]

The main issue I can see with the turbo underground production loop is that the rates of qualities between the 2 inputs (express undergrounds/tungsten plates) are uneven. Your plates have gone through 2 stages/rolls of quality increase (once from the miners and again when being made into plates) whereas the express undergrounds are all coming in at base quality. This results in only the base quality tungsten plates being consumed to make base quality turbo undergrounds. Any higher quality express undergrounds in the production loop will have come from the recycling of those turbo undergrounds which produces the corresponding amount of quality tungsten plates, thus the extra quality tungsten plates you input aren't ever going to be consumed. you need to mirror the 2 stages/rolls of quality increase in the production of the tungsten plates in the production of the express undergrounds to get matching quality rates. You could do this by having the fast undergrounds and gears used to make the express undergrounds be made with quality modules, then having the mix of quality outputs from those be made into express belts also using quality modules (the legendaries from either of these should be scrapped/thrown into the lava since the legendary tungsten plates don't end up in the loop), then its just a matter of matching the overall consumption rates of all express undergrounds with the tungsten plates to maximise the output. I hope this comment is helpful or makes any sense at all.

[@kypdurron]

There is only one quality roll on the plate, he put productivity in those foundry (and speed beacon), just putting quality module in express underground "may" help balance it (and it's out of beacon range), but yeah as is it's completely unbalanced. Anyway I feel like another comment about simply upcycling metallurgic science pack is more spot on ? (you can put productivity in science foundry, and it's not like exercising to make huge amount of science pack would be bad)

[@Radioisotoast]

@@kypdurron Ah, I missed the prod modules on the plates. One problem I can see with using metallurgic packs to make legendary carbide and plates is that the production rates of both will be hard linked, if one isn't consumed as much it will back up the production of packs preventing the other from being made unless you just scrap the excess. Maybe that is worthwhile with the extra productivity you can get out of it Though

[@jonahgetz5882]

@@kypdurron It would be great if recycling science worked, but science recycles into science not its components. (It has to be that way so you can't pull out science with low durability, deconstruct it, and reconstruct if for full durability additional science.)

[@kypdurron]

@@jonahgetz5882 Yeah that makes sense, not like I ever tried to recycle science before this comment...

[@OniNaito]

@@kypdurron Yeah, a lot of misinformation still going around. Especially about what can and can't be recycled and what recycles into what. Normally I trust what comes out of the Factorio community but in these early days I think less people are testing and more people are making untested declarations. It takes a bit of extra time, but throwing together a test map with editor extensions is relatively easy to do. Trust but validate.

[@Ihaveaheadache5]

Man did this update give players so much to chew on

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

yea, quality modules scare me... I have a facility making em, but I havent used em for over 30 hours on my first 2.0 playthrough lol.... gonna try a new run and gwt quality going BEFORE rockets this time, yo try to get some better powerpoles, assemblers, smelters, etc... AND be ready to role quality foundrys and EM plants as soon as I get to fulgora and volcanus.

[@NukeMarine]

@@DavidSmith-cr7mb First threw quality modules into my miners then upgrade my burn field to electric furnaces to get quality plates and steel on Nauvis to go into space the first time with rare equipment. Biggest mistakes were messing up filters and getting my bus polluted. Also liked creating quality modded miners and foundries and recyclers on Vulcanus and Fulgora from the start even though I'm capped out at rare at the moment. Watching Nilaus setting up a legendary farm scares me though. These last few eps have been insane.

[@Swahhillie]

You can very easily stack the output with some minor combinator. Output the recycler to a box. Have a decider read the content of said box. Each > 16, output 1 Each. Use that as the filter for the stack inserter that empties the box.

[@nahblue]

Are you a wizard

[@benjitheengi4447]

Or have the stacker filtered only to normal or whatever quality is being crafted and a regular inserter next to it with the opposite filter (blacklist). So the primary crafts are stacked and the upcrafts come out like normal

[@AbsoluteHuman]

@@benjitheengi4447 That's what Nilaus did in the video

[@pumpchan1709]

hello my name is Nilaus and we are back at our gloriuos ....

[@Şehsaid]

Classic

[@King133x]

Have rewatched so many videos… it is a classic

[@venloh7464]

glorious evolution

[@Matt_82]

the upcycle loop is a closed loop, the proportions of items that enter is the same as goes out, so if youre only inputting normal belts, you NEED to only input normal tungsten. Now, to make it equal, you have a two step quality tungsten production, one the mines and the smelters, so you need to have a two step quality on the belts too, quality on the blue belts and one foundry for every tier of green belt also with quality. but that is too much rng and it could lockup again Edit, there's only quality on the miners, so just putting quality on the green belt foundry should do it

[@Aldrasio]

Just going to take a moment to appreciate the beacon changes. I like how it's now worth it to slot one or 2 beacons into a build instead of being stuck with either beacon boxes or alternating rows of beacons and machines. It makes highly efficient end-game builds still look interesting.

[@penguindrummaster]

Given that the target of all this is legendary tungsten plate and tungsten carbide, I'd have picked metallurgic science packs as my target to upcycle. Every 2 packs should result in at least 1 carbide and 1 plate.

[@kitlith]

Science supposedly recycles into science, so that's not an option, unfortunately.

[@Nil-js4bf]

The wiki says that science packs can't be recycled. Am I misunderstanding something?

[@jonah741]

You should switch to an epic substations, they arent hard to get a ton of compared to legendary and they really change how you can build especially on vulcanus where you have so much space. Two epic substations creates an almost perfect spacing for full roboport coverage as well.

[@zockersfreund]

32:00 why are you not just taking the legendary carbon from space?

[@nahblue]

Also answered at 32:20

[@AbsoluteHuman]

27:40 To anyone watching: You don't really need to use two splitters and belts for that, they are effectively doing the same thing twice. Omit the first of them - easy optimization!

[@KekkusMaximus]

Why bother upcycling coal on Vulcanus if you already have unlimited legendary coal from space?

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

this is good point

[@88porpoise]

"I like it because I have it nearby" Plus, it makes this viable for someone who doesn't have tons of legendary coal from space. Which is important for Nilhaus who sells access to his blueprints.

[@thebinarysquad5962]

He sells blueprints? Are you frigging kidding me?

[@NukeMarine]

@@thebinarysquad5962 "Sells" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. He makes all his blueprints available to his patrons out of appreciation of their support. What they do with it after that (including uploading them on an exchange) is up to them. You can easily make the blueprints manually in the sandbox given he demonstrates the steps in the video.

[@stephen7630]

I think many youtubers are now. The videos are on KZbin but you get blueprint access on patreon. It's hard to make KZbin pay the bills.

[@vasiliifilippov5072]

you can squeeze up to 6 gear foundries around each underground belt foundry even with direct insertion

[@Liwet.]

If you take 25% of a belt with 240 items on it and add it to a belt with 240 items, you're going to get backed up. You only need 192 items on your input belt as an added 25% will bring it up to 240/s. And that's not taking into account the higher quality singleton items that you got lucky with.

[@nickschaus7785]

For the tungsten ore upcycler, I always forget to do this too but you have to account for the failed upcycler input for every stage. Got me the worst with my asteroid recycling ship, but if you have 220 inbound with 10% (.1) quality, on a recycler (.25 refund), you are actually over capacity even before accounting for higher quality outputs on the same belt. 220 initial normal quality + 220*(.25)*(1-.1) > 270ish with multiple iterations.

[@OccasusRaven]

i want to see him change everything what he have this world to legendary quality

[@melind82]

I think the imbalance from the underground build is because you are doing quality on one side of the inputs but not the other. Deleting works, but since the inputs are pretty simple and dedicated, couldn't you also fix it by adding quality to the underground side of the inputs? You currently have one step of quality (+24.8%) on the tungsten plate, so adding the same amount of quality (+24.8%) to final step of Express Underground Belt seems like it should fix the issue. Probably also need to add some circuit logic to only allow inputs when the boxes aren't full to make sure the buffers don't jam.

[@soejrd24978]

Use some cargo wagons as big mixed chests, you can put a ton of filtered inserters on it.

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

when do you recommend starting to upcycle and recycle for quality assembly? I want to do some for armors and equips, as well as guns, assemblers, smelters, powerpoles, and spaceship pieces, because early game those would be op, but I dont wanna waste a ton of time and resources if I can just get to a later science or greenbelts which makes it all feee

[@mabarrack]

Did you explain why you went with the ore mining recyclers for tungsten carbide instead of the up-cycling like the tungsten steel? I feel like quality module to produce an upgraded component and then quality recycling that component was a faster and more efficient method

[@Lordnecrons]

regarding obtaining legendary quality directly from ore. I think there was no need to make separate contours for > normal and regular. they are needed when we want to highlight each type of quality separately, but in this case we only need the legendary, which means we can only filter out the legendary at the input and filter out the legendary after the recyclers. The rest can be thrown into the general flow to recycle по поводу получения легендарного качества на прямую из руды. я считаю что небыло необходимости делать отдельные контуры для > обычного и обычного. они нужны когда мы хотим выделить отдельно каждый вид качества, но в данном случае нам нужно только легендарное, а значит можно только отсеивать легендарное на входе и отсеивать легендарное после переработчиков. остально кидать в общий поток на переработку

[@Lordnecrons]

and the recyclers' conclusions are stacked anyway if this is possible there was also no need to use manipulators there и выводы переработчиков итак стакают если это возможно тоже не было необходимости там использовать манипуляторы

[@Coobanmen]

Quality bulk inserters are faster then basic stack inserters. Ofc quality stack inserters will be better but carbon.

[@MendedSlinky]

Once you have a steady stream of all the legendary components, would it be worth it to transition science packs to legendary?

[@nahblue]

The answer is going to be no, because the raw materials are very limited

[@Vincent-jl3cn]

For the tungsten plates: wouldn't it make more sense to use prod modules on the miners? You would always have a good ratio of recycled quality and only use quality on the green undergrounds that you are trying to recycle.

[@Smallzonfire]

Which video shows how to get large production legendary iron plates? I've just been using spaceship recycling to do it.

[@spencerstanley4759]

Blue circuit recycling with enough productivity research, nets a 1 to 1 conversion of blue circuit materials to legendary materials.

[@melind82]

I'm trying to remember if this was actually shown, but I'm pretty sure they are smelting recycled asteroid iron ore in electric furnaces.

[@spencerstanley4759]

@@melind82 I think Nilhaus is going that way, as that is an alternative (and technically more free and infinite).

[@stephenmcorby]

He used the asteroid ship to get legendary iron and then just did regular smelting with it. He explained that when he was setting up the bus.

[@kickbul]

Arent the speed veacons at the tungsten furnaces interfering with the quality?

[@FaxDozer]

Great series.! This episode felt a bit rushed though.

[@zythaar8317]

Is there any reason why you havn't put Quality Modules into the Blue Underground build?

[@dan8250]

Better to grind foundries for carbide to get an extra quality roll vs recycling the ore back on itself.

[@alexdeathnote1]

You can just leech a bit of carbon from your legendary coal ship instead of producing it. I put an inserter before the chem labs that snatches a bit of carbon if the ship has less then 1k, never ran into problems with it since.

[@piRzzz-z2f]

Why not directly sort legendaries tungsten bars from recyclers with a long inserter or with stack inserter and underground belt instead of putting it on a belt already sturated just to for it to take a tour of your foundaries ? :) Really like your videos btw !!

[@chimmy_jim]

Me watching after I spent the last 2 days building a tungsten recycler that I now see is terrible: 😮‍💨😐 Welp that's the last time I'll get ahead of you. Great series, thank you!

[@OniNaito]

I think it's good that you did your own build before looking at Nilaus' version. I bet you understand much better how the process works. And what's to say in the process you don't find something better than both of them? Nilaus even said it could be better.

[@leyn1092]

Bro doing factorio gambling% speedrun

[@feelsfine6163]

4:20 minutes in, but would'nt kovarex enrichment be perfect to upcycle uranium directly from the uranium ore?

[@TOM_NIX]

You can't put quality in kovarex

[@ztirom2267]

They thought about that No quality modules in kovarax enrichment

[@phyphor]

Did I miss the explanation for why you're not making lower quality carbide, then trying to upcycle that, getting more chances to get higher quality?

[@88porpoise]

Because he wants to show /have blueprints for various methods of doing things.

[@wilmer4421]

what is the reason he chose not to use higher quality substations and gigantically increase the area of space in his grid?

[@88porpoise]

I would assume because he would need massive amounts of high quality substations before that was practical or completely rebuild everything now. Along with it being less accessible to viewers.

[@SGTSHOOTnMISS]

For consistency. With his base, he's using the same grid since he landed, so to change the size would be a full teardown.

[@nahblue]

What's the benefit to crafting tungsten plate in all qualities? You craft turbo undergrounds in all qualities, and that setup needs blue undergrounds. It's limited by the number of blue undergrounds that are promoted in quality and supplying extra quality tungsten plates should not matter at all - quality tungsten plates and quality blue undergrounds proc in exactly the same rate when crafting and recycling undergrounds. I could be missing something?

[@BazzBHeat]

For some reason this episode feels like "Intermezzo")

[@NukeMarine]

It feels wrong to upcycle epic tungsten ore before at least using it to make epic/legendary tungsten carbide/plates. Also, legendary carbide is best made in space and imported.

[@Lukasaske]

Skål og glædelig jul!

[@leluxs942]

legendary tungsten its really easy to make the way you made red circuits and mining with luck

[@SlimegirI]

Nilaus my beloved

[@toddrosenfield428]

Why not just use the legendary coal from your legendary asteroid cycler ship?

[@Nurdra4u]

One build is uneven as a few allready mentioned. The 2nd looks very very inefficient. You said in the video that production steps help alot. Why you upcycle the raw ore? Instead you can upcycle the tungsten carbide. This way, you allways have a production step between the recycler steps. And its a intermediate, you can even use prod modules. I cant test right now myself, but can tungsten plates be recycled to raw tungsten? If yes, you could combine both builds. Build and upcycle the tungsten plate, and recycle any excess or 50% of all plates back to ore. With the legandary coal from oribit its easy to make the legendary tungsten carbine in the end.

[@OccasusRaven]

11:47 why he put requester chest there??

[@zsombornyiro1156]

cant you just make nuclear fuel instead of nukes for uranium?

[@riri-st4mv]

am i the only one who can’t increase the video quality?

[@toml1652]

Thank you for the great content. I think the tungsten plate one will always end up being unbalanced, as you implemented it with one resource (undergrounds) only as normal, and the other (tungsten) in varying rarities. Easiest way to even out the balance might be to put in prod on the tungsten side, or maybe recycle any excess.

lol at tungsten plate lane balancer, bro just throw it to the side

[@stocks_9750]

30:30 Nilaus you have to shift the merged output belt of the 12 Recyclers one tile on the right, because the unload from inserters to belt is unbalanced. You will have more ore in the right side of the belt

[@YouTubestopsharingmyrealname]

I made a space platform that makes Legendary Carbon. it was a stupid time sink because.... how the hell do you get legendary tungsten ore?🤦‍♂

[@ryangross5446]

I love these design together style episodes, I really gain a lot of skills from them and implement them in my own base. Currently I've just finished Gleba for now and am about to build a dedicated spaceship just for Gleba science. Thanks for all the super helpful videos!

[@TheUkeloser]

Made it to the solar system edge while watching this video. Thanks Nilaus!

[@jasongros6688]

Why not just up cycle metal science? No external item like belts you need to add in. You need about 13x the ingredients of a common recipe to produce a legendary recipe if you put 4 prod mods in all steps except 2 prod mods, 2 quality mods in the epic recipe. Also it makes the science directly so you don't have to upcycle X (which uses tungsten), recycle it to get back legendary tungsten, then make metal science.

[@submachinegun5737]

Science doesn’t recycle into its components, only itself, and quality grinding a thing that recycles into itself sucks in comparison to most other methods

[@OniNaito]

@jasongross6688 Did you test this yourself before you made this claim? As @submachinegun5737 said, science only recycles into itself. Maybe you heard somebody say science could recycle into its components but you didn't test it for yourself. Trust but verify my friend.

[@Sworn973]

Yah, upgrading by deconstructing it in the recycler is the most op thing in the game, I still think it is just broken and should not be allowd, but that is how the game is so, guss it is a valid option

[@culnano]

Some people are waiting on military science video