Welcome to Dropped Rings | Dropped Frames Episode 307

Check us out where podcasts are available: droppedfram.es
We take an even longer time discussing our further adventures in the world of Elden Ring and still come away gushing about most aspects of the game, though we do have some criticisms. Then in the second half we talk about the troubled launch of Babylon's Fall, how ELEX 2 fairs in 2022 & much more!
0:00 - Intro
3:00 - Dropped Rings
30:00 - Is Elden Ring 10/10?
1:36:00 - Will other open world games take inspiration from Elden Ring
1:42:00 - Enviornmental storytelling
1:55:20 - The music of Elden Ring
Like the video? Watch us live every Sunday 1PM ET:
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- / cohhcarnage
- / ezekiel_iii
#DroppedFrames #EldenRing

[@TenchiSawada]

While the dungeons are "copy Pasta" From software uses to their advantage and some of the later dungeons are harrowing experiences of psyching yourself out. Also the "side content" JP talked about is absolutely 100% some of the best content in the game.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

haligtree + malenia =10/10

[@rockems4959]

Man, never psyched myself out, just got annoyed by being killed in two hits by all enemies...

[@riz3310]

@@rockems4959 you’ve likely underleveled vigor. Can’t sleep on vigor

[@KonaSuba]

Elden Ring has been one of the best gaming experiences I have had in years. I started to feel like maybe I am getting to old for video games but then Elden Ring comes along and proves that wrong, getting lost for hours in the game and even thinking about playing it when I am not proves to me this is my game of the year easily if not the best game I have played since God of War 2018.

[@mokenshi]

For me, it's the best game since TW3 which I consider the GOAT.

[@Kmaitland89]

God of war was 2018, if you are talking about the God of War that was the most recent.

[@killeronice818]

Would love to see someone like LobosJr on their Elden Ring spoiler cast.

[@wheelchazeal8089]

I second this comment.

[@hatedfollower]

I gotta say, I never thought Cohh would prefer a Bethesda type open world game than this. I didn't expect him to say it wasn't ground breaking. I feel it will be talked about for decades to come. But hey, different strokes.

[@brilobox2]

Open world fromsoft game. Its very high quality, but its true theres little ground breaking about it. Several years on and there aren’t a lot of things ER is remembered for besides being an amazing experience.

[@lilfuzzballa]

@@brilobox2 Not ground breaking, but it broke the monotony of the same tired open world formula we always got for years. It took elements of Souls games, metroidvania games, exploration of Breath of he Wild, the amazing level design that Fromtsoft is known for, and the less hand holdy style of classic rpgs, and made it work. And not only that, but made the game absolutely huge and content deep. But hold up, you say: "Several years on and there aren’t a lot of things ER is remembered for besides being an amazing experience." Well you just said it's remembered for being an amazing experience. "Amazing experience" is a very loaded phrase. A loaded phrase that obviously implies there's a few reasons that go into making it amazing. Isn't it fair to say that all those amazing things Elden Ring does so well are the several things that make it memorable. Keep in mind that a game can still be memorable but not ground breaking. They mean 2 different things.

[@bombon9674]

elden ring is the greatest open world game ever. the sheer amount of unique handcrafted content in it is astonishing... the amount of variety, boss fights, the legacy dungeons.... all insane. the sense of adventure and exploration and the wanderlust you get from it... no other games come close. i love how the horse has a double jump mechanic to it. such a simple addition yet genius. somehow no games implemented it before because it was "unrealistic" but from soft was like, fuck it. it adds alot to the game's exploration and makes it more fun so why not make the horse able to do a double jump. brilliant.

[@griffin1182]

54:00 Ubisofts Assassins Creed Odyssey had something like this, there were different story modes, one where everything on the map would be markered, and one where literally nothing would. It made it so you chould choose to have a map filled with way points and markers or you could choose to have a blank map and have to adventure and find things yourself.

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

Elden Ring is a bonafide 10 in my book. Probably my favourite game of all time at this point. Some of the end-game bosses are absolutely unreal. It’s incredible how From has managed to fine tune the bosses mechanically, delaying some attacks to throw you off your game and giving them ludicrous combos that you don’t expect to continue. My only gripe is that they need to implement more bosses or enemies with inconsistent attack patterns. Currently Blue Smelter Demon from dark souls 2 is *still* the only boss in the franchise with this feature.

[@SlCKNESS_]

It's a solid 7 out of 10 for me. Some of the bosses are just stupid and asking for more inconsistency? That's just absurd. All the copy/paste has basically ruined exploration for me in the later parts of the game. So while the first 50 hours were magical, and that's quite a few hours, my opinion of the game dropped SIGNIFICANTLY in the later 50 hours of my 105-hour playthrough.

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

@@SlCKNESS_ 105 hours?! I’ve beaten the game 7 times and only just hit 90. You just sound bad and salty.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

@@SlCKNESS_ which bosses were so inconsistent? seemed like pretty much every boss i can think of has clear telegraphs for every attack though admittedly some are tough to react to. Even then there’s tons of ways to get around even the most annoying attacks either through using a shield, running away, or even just using a dagger for its quickstep ability(im looking at you malenia)

[@MrRadiantMan]

Radogan's 2nd phase the Elden Beast is more of a health sponge than anything tbh..not a good fight considering how good radogan himself is...malenia is ok but she is no isshin or anything..scarlet rot is damn annoying...also u are really rushing the game like crazy if u have beaten the game 7 times in 90 hours unless u are speed running all bosses etc.

[@MrRadiantMan]

@@SlCKNESS_ Disagree...while some of the later bosses are annoying( especially 2 of them)..the game is still incredibly good..imo the 2nd best fromsoftware game behind sekiro and will probably win goty.

[@_Snarky]

The game has such amazing views/areas everywhere in the open world, a few pasted enemies or catacombs does not matter at all to me.

[@Thurmanation2011s]

And that does not deserve taking a point off the game. Game is a 10/10.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

@@Thurmanation2011s if this isn’t a 10/10 literally no game is even close. 10/10 doesn’t mean something is literally perfect, just that it is masterful enough to be considered a masterpiece

[@augmentedsquirrel394]

Until I finally caved and tried the Mimic summon I used the Ancient Follower and the wolves a lot. My favorite summon by far is one I call “The Squad” and it’s 5 little guys with greatshields that I would use and chain stagger enemies with us surrounding them. Some of the biggest laughs I’ve had in a while.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

i like the marionettes quite a bit as they are able to pull aggro really well and you can kinda gimp quite a few bosses by making the boss switch aggro between you and the marionettes. definitely not as good as mimic, esp against endgame bosses like malenia, but they are still quite impressive. I found them amazing against slow moving enemies

[@LordlyWeeb]

The story in Elden Ring is much more clear than other FromSoft games, so I don't see Cohh's problem there.

[@MrRadiantMan]

Other than Sekiro which was the most traditional story that fromsoftware have ever done...elden ring's lore imo is arguably the best they have ever done..very good stuff.

[@dio_lima]

Cohh is the type of person that like everything handled on a plate for him, with expositions etc. So any other different type of story telling he acts like it's bad.

[@Spider-ew2gc]

@@dio_lima fuck off, he never said that. He would just like for it to be easier to go back and review.

[@arseniykorchevskiy1564]

i also super disagree with his take that dungeons are too copy pasted, there’s tons of really unique ones especially later on and also him saying there should be 3 secret walls per dungeon, as that would kill the novelty of finding a secret wall. Maybe it’s different playing online but as it is for me finding a secret wall is always a great surprise and it feels good to be rewarded for diligent searching even if you are usually not rewarded for it

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

@@arseniykorchevskiy1564 all that seem copy not actually copy either each of small dungeon have own puzzle or continue concept of puzzle from old one it intention design to be that way to look similar but different

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

1:08:25 There’s way more than 82 bosses. The wiki says 83 but me and my girlfriend have been keeping separate journals of our boss counts and I’ve fought 114 currently and aren’t even end game.

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

@@Boomi_Dog Every single one. I’ve even added a location onto the end of their name to make sure I know how to differentiate them. I’ll tell you now, there’s a hell of a lot of repeat bosses.

[@nokturnallex2160]

Pretty damn sure the wiki doesn't have all the information, but as far as counting enemies as bosses, I'd have to argue multiple points. Does it say Enemy Defeated or Great Enemy Defeated after? Health bar is optional I'd say, as certain bosses lack them for whatever reason. Also would you count each Night Calvary and Death Bird for example as a different boss? Even if their movesets barely change.

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

@@nokturnallex2160 If there is a long red health bar at the bottom with a name attached I count it. I don’t count encounters without it, even if it’s the same enemy as a “boss”. Ulcerated Tree Spirit comes to mind. Why? Because It’s the traditional From Software way. Also Bloodborne had this thing with reusing standard enemies as bosses in chalice dungeons but they were still technically bosses. This game does the same but on an exponential level. If that were the case I’d have to count the zillion “Grave Warden Duellists” or “Erdtree Burial Watchdogs”. I’d also counter your point about Night’s Cavalry being the same encounter every time by asking if you’d consider Stray Demon and Demon Firesage as two separate bosses? They have different names, designs and are in completely different areas, and yet they have exactly the same move set and behaviour.

[@nokturnallex2160]

@@OfficialCrowMauler I guess the best way to describe how many bosses there are in 2 different categories. Unique Bosses and actual amount of bosses. The actual amount taking into effect how many bosses there are that it's possible to fight total and unique would remove bosses that are repeats, even if they have different movesets.

[@tylersimmons6524]

I love the Tree Sentinal Halberd and that's my go to when things get tough, but I like that you can use ashes of war to turn weapons to scale with whatever you want once you find the right items. When moving through the open world, I like to switch between the massive Estoc-type sword (Epiee?), Uchi, and Claws, and I use a Lance on horseback. All while being primarily a strength build with just enough dex/faith to wield the halberd.

[@Pedone_Rosso]

Cannot find the pieces of lore? GYYT GUUUD! (In this case it's a joke, but there might be someone saying the same thing seriously somewhere in this comment section...LOL!) Thanks for Dropping Frames!

[@Realag666]

I really hope we still get the final ultra spoiler episode with you guys final thoughts on the game

[@nolanlehman6392]

Is Elden Ring perfect? No it does have some reused boss encounters and the mini dungeons have similarities no question. But compared to basically every other open world game I've ever played its sense of discovery and variation blows them the fuck away. Every shrine in BOTW was the exact same reward but at least in this even if I get a weapon or spell I can't use, I'm glad it exists. I know some players will be extremely happy to randomly receive something from a random dungeon they find. There's almost no fluff and bullshit. And the amount of build variety is absolutely staggering. So yeah I think it is a 10 outta 10. The good vastly outweighs the bad and imo Cohh is harping on things here that he ignored in other games that do them far worse

[@ymirssohn79]

Wouldn't call that harping, he's just not ignoring it. And there's no reason to.

[@lilfuzzballa]

@@ymirssohn79 First of all, I think re-using assets is ok, BUT it depends on how it's executed and handled. Too many people are viewing asset recycling as either good or bad, black or white. It's not the simple. With huge games like this, it's inevitable. One of my favorite games, Monster hunter World has 71 monsters, but not without them re-using monster base skeletons to create new monsters, or just recolors with a couple of new moves or A.I. behaviours. Creating new enemies, especially if they are complex and detailed takes a lot of work to build from scratch. 71 unique monsters would be insane. Look at other open world games...they all do it. The bigger they are, typically the more common it is. Some of Cohh's favorite open world games, such as Fallout 4 and Witcher 3 re-use assets all the time. In Fallout Behemoths, Mirelurk queens, Vaults, and just general buildings, clutter, and junk to fill the world. But not one complaint from him. Witcher 3 has countless monster nests and place of power obilisks that all look and act the same, but again...no complaints. Not saying I have issues with those games doing it. I think it's fine as long as they still give us plenty of unique content, and pace out the recycled stuff enough to where the re-used assets are just not constantly in our face and running into us every 5-10 minutes. When it comes to the greatest of anything, the skeptics will come out like an army and pick apart every little detail. It's just human nature.

[@KyngD469]

I dont think re used bosses are even that bad of a thing. It gives you an opportunity to test what youve learned. You can struggle against a boss and then completely crush it and dodge everything in the next encounter. That feels good. Not every boss needs to be a struggle and if it's re used then it's even better. What's more. There's probably lore for why there are so many copies of x in x area. And that's going to be really awesome.

[@lilfuzzballa]

@@KyngD469 Pokémon has been using reused assets for decades. Walked around grass for an hour and ran into the same Pokémon 30 times. There's no excuse to re use assets, especially when it comes to simple 2d art.

[@n2nother]

The take away open world games should have isn’t just removing icons. It’s making every direction the player faces there is something to catch their attention. A path, a structure, an enemy, an NPC, etc. even sounds. Most open world games don’t have that. Tons of space is wasted on only having the path you’re currently on.

[@lilfuzzballa]

I would respect Cohh's opinion on re-used assets, until I realized Cohh didnt seem to have much to complain about the insane amount of re-used assets in his most favorite games like Fallout and Witcher 3. No Problem fighting mutiple Behemoths, Mirelurk Queens, or Deathclaws...that is all awesome, but apparently when you have around 60 unique bosses in Elden Ring, and an additional 20 are copies, its a major problem. Cant wait to go inside my 8th discovered vault in Fallout 4 and see a bunch of the same interior models and tilesets being used and connected in the same way... highlight of the game. Im also a big fan of the dozens of "place of power" obelisk scattered all over Witcher 3. It never gets old to run up to one and kneel in front of it for my reward. But goddamn am I tired of all these ruins in Elden Ring where its the same thing every time, in order to collect a talisman. Seems like he excuses these kinds of things for games hes a big fan of.

[@EpicWolf355]

It's a problem because Souls games have built themselves on venturing into unknown areas and having it's fair share of unique bosses. I feel his point about the bosses in particular because I've noticed it myself. The Erdtree Avatar you fight in Limgrave in hour 5 will be the same one you fight in the Altus Plateau in hour 40. The dragons are all the same fight as well. There are many "boss fights" which are just common normal enemies in the open world. Duo boss fights are especially bad because they're just two of the same enemy at the same time. These bosses in the optional open world are just not as polished or fun to learn and fight as mainline bosses in the game and other souls games. I guess this is to be expected with how large the world is but it's still something that I hope they can address better in their next title.

[@lilfuzzballa]

@@EpicWolf355 it comes with the territory of going into the open world genre, especially one of this size. Unless you expect them to exceed their budget and delay it by another year or so, then I guess you could get what you want, but its just not realistic. Its not like dark souls where the games are more focused and they line up 20-30 unique bosses in a linear fashion. Its a dark souls on a massive scale and like 3x the amount of unique bosses. You have to applaud the effort in even offering that much to begin with. So in my opinion, I can excuse the 20 or do reused bosses.

[@PickedaName_]

Elden Ring runs well on old PS4 hardware. Frames dip for a second while loading textures and that's basically it; in my experience. I'm using HDD, SSD would probably limit the dips.

[@MrRadiantMan]

Yah it runs pretty well..even on a base ps4.

[@PickedaName_]

I should specify that I turned blood off so it runs more smoothly in combat. Default blood spirts and this spurting effect seems to cause hiccups. Medium doesn't spurt but I decided to just turn it off to ensure frames are stable.

[@devingoode5831]

You guys should try and get lobosjr on the show for the spoiler cast that would be amazing

[@terakahn]

Cohh talking about the more or less, copy paste stuff, I actually kind of like the predictability. And some of them do switch it up and it feels very new and different. The sense of surprise decays, but its still fun I guess? The quest order thing is one thing I really loved about horizon. I could do things in basically any order, and the quest would function normally, and the npcs would make reference to what I did.

[@CrimsonSun88]

I'd love to Elajjaz and/or Distortion02 on Dropped Frames. I think it would be a great show.

[@vis3348]

1:22:01 This looks like Stormgate. Has anyone figured out how to get to the top of it to find the shield that JP is talking about?

[@enlightendbel]

I don't think there's much datamining being done, since there are a few things people still have no idea what so ever what they are for. There's important items you get that nobody knows what you're supposed to do with and people are trying pretty much everything. A lot of the info generated comes from people trying all sorts of things typical for Souls games and variations on those things.

[@SmorgasLord]

It would be great if you got Happy Hob or LobosJr on the show

[@dextright]

I only have a 1060 and I haven't really had any performance issues.. Running on default High settings. Very rarely I'll get a momentary freeze but i think it was more to other things I had running in the background. I'm like 50+ hours in for reference.

[@aubg]

The game is CPU bound (as any game with a bad engine)

[@robbiegallagher786]

as a person that never play a dark souls game before me playing i would love a journal in the game because i have no idea what i am doing or where i am going

[@lionfan96]

would love an in game notepad and a way to label markers.

[@AndrewRaymund]

I want that Elden Ring Dropped Frames real bad. Pls do ty

[@VoltaDoMar]

Re: exposition, how about Vaati mode? They can just let you play Vaati videos during the game so he can explain things to you in real time

[@lionfan96]

for pumkinhead boss, summoning works wonders. then this boss is cake as a mage.

[@Makeshift_Housewife]

I agree with something Max said. Now that we have seen what Bluepoint can do with Demon's Souls, fromsoft needs a LOT of help from the technical aspects of the game world, engine, etc.

[@argentoAFK47]

@@MaledictusXCII None of the three things you mentioned as bad have to do with the technical aspects they are referring to.

[@Darkasasin80]

I have to disagree on it having a built in Quest Log. Knowing that there are NPC quest lines, bosses, gear and even entire zones that I can miss just makes me want to play again or talk with others who have played the game and have had different experiences from me. FromSoft being comfortable with letting the player miss and not experience aspects of the game is, to me, fantastic. Not enough devs are comfortable with that. Obviously agree to each their own though. I like it but can definitely understand why others wouldn't.

[@Darkasasin80]

@@pekirt I suppose. A stylized in game journal you could make notes in would help the "Immersion" factor so to speak. It's just it seems like so many are making such a big deal about it. I don't get why you can't just use a notebook or notepad app. I've done that for many games over the years. The kack of an in game journal doesn't really feel like a large demerit, to me at least.

[@gremlin4304]

I'd love for there to be a journal that updates information you've gotten from npcs/exploration. I'm going to look all that stuff up anyway, I'd rather it be in the game, although I understand that's probably a lot of work to implement. A journal that does not tell me what I'm missing, only what I have discovered

[@Squallcloud95]

If you make a mistake and press a button during a dialog. It's finished you'll never know what this NPC was saying. Only way to know is to make another character. Just having a dialog history would be blessing.

[@LooseCo]

My thing is I'd just like that kind of thing to be an option. Have it off by default.

[@louiskusters9452]

@@LooseCo of course it would be an option, you'd have to actually go to your dialog log to look at it. Like a codex

[@Downloader3008]

if you do a huge spoiler cast i'd like to see lirik be a guest (if he wants aswell). rarely seen him sucked into a game like elden ring. and i still remember his hour-long fights vs ludwig (bloodborne) and sigrun (god of war)...

[@lilfuzzballa]

I prefer Maximillian dood. He's always been a great and exciting guest in every time he's been on the show. His passion about games he loves and his insight, is so engaging compared to most guests. He really nerds out about games with good design, art, music, and lore. He'd be the perfect one.

[@Downloader3008]

@@lilfuzzballa they already mentioned the Dood. i agree max is a great guest and very passionate but this wasn't a pick and choose question who should or shouldn't be part of a spoilercast. it was just a suggestion on whom I wanted to see as a guest. especially because lirik hasn't been on the show for a very long time.

[@ioneil1808]

To criticize this game for copy paste is quite a reach. Ok so there are optional Ruins that look the same and have a simple clear mechanic. This is arguably the largest most environmentally diverse games I've ever played. Like that just seems like a bad and uninformed take. I don't know, maybe he just hasn't explored as much of the world? I like Cohh but disagree strongly.

[@VysetheLegendary]

I don't feel as strongly as Cohh regarding the ruins, though there have been a few instances, (namely the bosses), where I do feel the copy/paste is a little overdone. It's a little less noticeable when there is a specific mechanic that's changed, but there's 1 boss you fight only at night who I've gone against 4 times so far, and every time has played out the same. In the big scheme of things, it's a tiny critic to have, but it is still fair to point it out. I also think it's one of those things that you can say quality over quantity, like how people disliked DS2 bosses for that. And I'm not saying Elden Ring is anything as intense as that, but there are some instances where they could have cut back a little here and there, and I don't think people would have criticised the game for lack of content, or the like. It's still, for me, likely my GOTY, and the best FromSoft game I've played, but for sure, there's some things I would have liked changed/improved.

[@lilfuzzballa]

Every single copy paste dragon in Skyrim, every single monster nest/place of power in Witcher 3, every Mirelurk queen, every Griffin fight in Witcher :) But when it comes to ruins in Elden Ring >:(

[@SlCKNESS_]

It's not a bad take, it's a great take. Other Souls games didn't have this issue. But Elden Ring does and it's not something that should be ignored.

[@lilfuzzballa]

@@SlCKNESS_ It's always important to look at things with perspective and context. So look at it this way. Dark souls games usually have anywhere from 20-30 unique bosses on launch. Elden Ring has (idk the exact number) but at least 60 unique bosses, but most likely more. So Elden Ring already has double the amount of unique bosses. So if you can admit that they went that far beyond the standard, then how is an additional 60 or so copy pasted bosses, make it worse than previous souls games? They've already hit the standard and delivered way beyond what is expected. Even with that, they dont get the luxury of adding some filler here and there?

[@Ayay01]

wish i could listen to this ..but a short while in ..they got way to much passion for this game and they will spoil the crap out of it not even thinking about it lol ,

[@PickedaName_]

I've muted and unmuted multiple times if a subject made me nervous.

[@Fardawg]

1:01:20 Cohh finally went one step too far for JP, LOL. And as always, Cohh tries to backpedal it into a joke.

[@rockems4959]

Uhh don't think so...

[@Dinostra]

You do have guidance though, the graces have literal arrows towards the next area you should look for. But as for the sidequests and lorehunters playstyle, the only way is exploration and vague descriptions of items or visuals of them. And while i do agree with the idea that many games should implement these tools for accessibility, a lot of people, me included, feel like the souls-games or FROMSOFT-games are catered to a niche kind of players, and starting to make the games more linear or in some respects more accessible do take away from that core element of the thing that makes the games great. Having to scrounge for clues, feeling aimless and grasping at what little information we have or get in just playing the game. I think games, nomatter the scale or publisher should be able to keep to their niches and continue to be in that space, games are not inherently made for everyone. The same way music have their niches and books have theirs. Hell art styles, and plays are all interpreted differently. Music, games and movies are under this veil of scrutiny and whataboutism because it's not made specifically to the individual consumer of the media. That is such an entitled way of going about consuming art, and it's really hurting all those different facets of Art. If publishers and art creators only catered to the masses, we will get the safe bet everytime. Tell me who remembers the shadow of mordor and war, great games to play, a few cool mechanics. But so safe they got forgotten about a month after release. Or at least forgotten about weren't it for the controversies surrounding the second one. Large pools of money and time put into the safe bet gives a really hollow experience. Great at face value, but doesn't last. Rant over. I feel like i need a disclaimer (late one at that) This is not aimed towards anyone, it's directed at alot of the ideas they talked about during the show. I love JP, Zeke and Cohh. I just disagree with the things they talked about. Be safe and be kind

[@Guitarman5705]

I generally agree with cohhs take on games but I can't with this game, there are far less copy paste points in this game than pretty much any other open world game ever made. Hell even breath of the wild only had what one dungeon type, here at least you get vastly different catacombs, ruins, legacy dungeons, churches, etc. Docking a point off it because literally every single location wasn't unique is honestly tripe

[@nolanlehman6392]

BOTW shrines lost their luster so damn fast for me. The best one in that game (the island where you lose your stuff) is to the quality of quite a few dungeons in this game

[@SlCKNESS_]

The problem is you're comparing this game to other open world games. Cohh's comparing this game to other Souls games and these other Souls games had this promise of "you're in a new area? EVERYTHING is new", but you open up Elden Ring and suddenly every Ruin and Catacomb is a copy/paste, which eliminates about 40% of the map. Sure, the parts of the map that are unique are amazing, but it doesn't justify the copy/paste. Even if this game is a 1000 times better than other Open World games in that regard, it could've been better.

[@waypastthenorm8629]

@@SlCKNESS_ reused assets are not the same as exact copy and pastes. The catacombs build as you play through the game getting more and more complex. 40% of the map is not the exact same, and every micro dungeon has a unique reward at the end of it making it worth the time.

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

agreed it less than any game i play even in copy paste one they still design to have something different and reason behind all of it

[@BigDerfGaming]

I would argue that the devs also knew that the statue boss was the hardest/coolest in the game, so they gave us the good good.

[@MassWasTaken]

I came to this video thiking it was the spoilercast, figured out they never actually did one for elden ring which is surprising.

[@TaikanzGames]

Part of the issue with copy paste is that the world is so massive and expansive is that to fill so much space uniquely would be impossible from a budget-wise, I would prefer a smaller world and more uniqueness.

[@_Snarky]

My only issue is the game constantly freezing for me, if i didn't experience that issue the game would have been a 10/10.

[@lwc2349]

The game is soo massive I feel like they needed to copy paste some things otherwise it would be a decade out still

[@MrRadiantMan]

Yah it was a weird criticism by cohh considering how much he loves witcher 3 which has quite a few reskin enemies and bosses in the game..pretty much every open world game has this "flaw"

[@aubg]

​@@MrRadiantMan Different games. In Elden Ring you play for the exploration & boss fights. If you know what you'll find AND you have seen the boss before, there's really no point to these dungeons, Cohh is absolutely right. Witcher 3 is primarily a story-driven RPG, as part of the side quests you largely came to know what happened to the boss (i.e. ghost was a maiden that was abused by her husband, etc.)

[@MrRadiantMan]

@@aubg Sorry but not every dungeon has the same reskin as cohh was eluding to..are there reskins?..yes but there are unique bosses too...i do agree with u however that elden ring is more about the exploration and fights as compared to witcher 3 which is much more about the story.

[@gremlin4304]

@@aubg The way you put it actually makes a lot of sense. I see where Cohh's coming from now

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

@@aubg i not feel it just "the same" in my 180hr. run yes it reuse thing but they make it different and have lore reason behind all of it to the point oh it cool i see why they are here and oh i see this dungeon have continue concept puzzle of old one that relate to this etc. and each of them have new trick twist to the point it cool to do if we say they should make more unique than this it is unrealistic to make this kinda of game

[@thedarkness125]

To be fair when cohh was talking about his opinion. He is factually incorrect with his critiques whith regards to comparing to the other soulsborne games, zeke even said it later in the same discussion "theres a precedent for this." But fair enough his opinion is his opinion and hes welcome to it.

[@gabrielhedin1697]

You should ask Vaati for the big spoiler-vid.

[@pawe1721]

I really envy people enjoying Elden Ring. I tried it but it's sadly not for me. Played a little bit but got bored and quit

[@SlCKNESS_]

Contrary to popular opinion you're not missing out on much. It's just an easier, open world Dark Souls 3 that suffers from the same copy/paste problems all other open world games suffer. Which is, ironically, something Souls games were really good at avoiding.

[@waypastthenorm8629]

@@SlCKNESS_ did you even play the game?

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

@@waypastthenorm8629 he reply same thing every comment lol

[@Hoenhime344]

WoolieVS have him and Max on

[@ctg4818]

Even with the stuttering issue Elden Ring is the most stable AAA game at launch in years. The opposite of Cyberpunk

[@neamraven]

1:50:12 Broooo imagine preferring Forbidden West over Elden Ring. LMAO XDD

[@rogerbabin8175]

1:39:40 While this is a funny mockery of AC games... I feel its only fair to point out that recent AC games have an exploration mode whose HUD becomes about as busy as the Elden Ring HUD is in the gameplay shown here. I can't speak for Far Cry 6 but I'm curious if Ubisoft has done something similar with that one as well. Given that just a couple minutes later Cohh speaks for a desire to give the player the option for more information...what he's basically asking for is what AC: Valhalla already does. Which is kind of funny. Note: Don't be a moron and take this as AC >>> Elden Ring fanboy shit. Just making a point that the Ubisoft screenshot shows one possible way to play those games but not the only way.

[@jepeman]

You can play without any HUD (or pick and choose what elements you want) in Valhalla, so even less busy than Elden Ring. Edit: Actually, could maybe do this since AC Origins.

[@SlCKNESS_]

Figuring out that all the ruins/catacombs are just copy/paste basically eliminated 40% of the exploration for me. To the point where I didn't even bother doing ANY of the ruins/catacombs in MotG. So while the first 50 hours of my playthrough were awesome the later 50 hours felt meh. People keep comparing Elden Ring to other open world games and I don't understand why. Why are you comparing this game to garbage, while you're claiming it's the best game out there. Compare it to previous Souls games, like Cohh does, and suddenly there's a problem - other Souls games had this promise of "new area, everything's new". In Elden Ring new area means 20% of it is new and awesome, but the majority is just copy/paste.

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

each of catacombs have own puzzle it not copy and paste over and over it intentional design that each of every dungeon have own concept and puzzle to feel different i never see game that this big and careful design each dungeon like this before they can just put 2 same box wall with each dungeon and done with it but they not doing that . instead they design each of everyone of them have something different and sometime it cool to solve that puzzle

[@Razzying]

I'm with Cohh on story exposition, would love to at least have a few npc's out there that when you're doing the main quest they kinda blurt out story stuff about the world or something. Most of the lore is behind stuff a normal person maybe wont get.

[@nolanlehman6392]

I get that but honestly I'm so much more intrigued to uncover it since I haven't been fed every detail in the open. I'll admit it does require digging around and reading lore.

[@KyngD469]

Do you guys truly believe Sony is going to take ANY risks with God of War? The only reason people liked it is 1. It was a very long time since the last one, so nostalgia. 2. They timed it well so that they aged up Kratos to match the same aged up players of the originals on ps2. This forces an emotional relationship with the character rather than an organic one. Granted it was a good direction to take it imo. (But honestly it basically just boils down to: oh mee like God of war as kid. Me grow up have kid. Oh Kratos grow up and have kid too. Me Kratos. Me like game.) 3. They changed combat just enough. Like seriously. Over the shoulder, again, zoom in for kill cutscene again, more blah blah blah on the nose movie dialogue. People are looking forward to God of War but it isnt going to break new ground. It's just waiting for a meal you've ordered before. You're just slightly hungier so it'll taste better. Dont kid yourselves.

[@darkkislich]

I disagree with parts of what cohh is saying, like some other reviewers have said the same thing about wanting a quest log. But this is just the same arguement whether souls game needs an easy mode or not. Easy mode and quest log are what some people want but not the experience the game developer intend for you to have, and I bet fromsoft don't expect you to remember what the quest is or what a NPC have said, you just stumble upon it. And those addition would change their whole approach to the game as well, so I would not say it is entirely a gatekeeping issue. If you think about their NPC design every souls game, NPC have their own agenda. IMO fromsoft wants to create the feeling that they are not NPC. That's why they will move on depending on your progress rather than waiting at the same spots waiting for you to finish the quest.

[@trashmyego]

Why is Cohh so hard up on holding Elden Ring to standards that no game ever has been held to before? On a side note, he seemed distracted and short this entire podcast so maybe something had him stressed.

[@lilfuzzballa]

I've started to notice that this game is getting a lot of people all over the internet, wanting to nit pick and knock on flaws of Elden Ring. I think it's human nature that when something gets propped up on a huge pedestal, and is said to "be the best", or at the very least "One of the best," people naturally become skeptical and try to analyze every problem with laser focus. But any other average game, those same problems are more easily ignored. When you truly have something great, flaws (no matter how small or common in the game industry the flaws are) will stick out like a sore thumb, and will get treated even harsher for them. It's funny because 2 of Cohh's favorite franchises are Fallout and Witcher, and even those games suffer from a lot of the same issues he brought up with Elden Ring, but I don't remember him mentioning that at all with those games. And I've watched the entirety of his F4 and W3 and Dropped frame episodes where they discuss those games. But I think those games are probably more examples of his fanboy bias, letting some things slide.

[@rockems4959]

The fact you guys never mentioned input lag compared to sekiro is somewhat disconcerting

[@maypenray7070]

Could you have Vaatividya on the show?

[@devilprooftiger]

It is indeed, called a 'n o t e b o o k'

[@kaladinstormblessed9626]

If u paid attention, you would understand tho.

[@JVCity]

For some reason my first playthrough has me doing a soul level 1 run, and that beginner spell is not just your 'bread and butter', its life.

[@FirionDude]

Man the fact that I've already played 36 hours and only explored 2 major zones makes me so hyped. And I already talked with friends who are playing the game and they have found stuff I haven't in those zones. Any other game would be finished by then. It's a 8/10 for just because of the perfomance problems I have on it (some zones enemies are invisible and so is the horse), but besides that top tier game.

[@dio_lima]

I don't get Cohh sometimes, he's always stating to let people like what they want to like, but at the same he wants to people to like Elden Ring less and identify as a problem what he say it's a problem (the mini dungeons for example). Like why does it affect you if someone says the game it's a 10/10 for them? It feels like nitpick with how much he let pass with bethesda, or Elex 2 for example in the next part.

[@Mysterymelmoth]

Bruh Cohh is so right, I can't wait for Elden Ring 2 to be even bigger with no copypaste now that FromSoft has learned from their mistakes. Its going to be like Bloodborne 2 and 3 all over again, and we all know how great those turned out to be. I mean, if you are going to replace all "copypasted" enemies, armours, and assets, it should only be about 25x the amount of effort to actually populate the world to the similar degree. The bossfights especially really deserved some more attention, I can't belive they just reskinned and slightly changed their one dragon fight a dozen times. Just look at Dark Souls 3! It had 3 entirely unique dragon fights because 1 wasn't actually a fight and 2 of them weren't actual dragons! It's not like making over a dozen completly unique dragon boss fights would take more dev time then most game dedicate to their entire boss lineup, so it should't be to much to ask FromSoft to squeeze that in between making over 80 other completely unique bosses. Therefore I am pretty certain it should only take them until 2025 to make it, after all, I hear Elden Ring 1 is selling really good, so obviously now they have the money to make Elden Ring 2 a objectively better game in all possible aspects within 3 years tops, because that's how game dev works. Then, and of course only then, Elden Ring will be a 10/10, because we all know that if its possible to envision theoretical improvements that would make a game better in regards to my personal tastes, even if such improvements would quadruple development time, cost and scope, it cannot possibly deserve a 10/10. /s

[@lilfuzzballa]

Sure it seems easy to do, what the reality with large games of this scale, is that trying to make everything from scratch is not realistic. The previous Dark Souls games had what, 20-30 bosses? Just looking at the wiki, this game has 150+ bosses. And the majority of them are unique. Are you really asking for 150+ unique bosses, on top of making every ruin from scratch and every dungeon with unique assets? Bro, you're out of your mind if you think it's realistic to do that. Let's put it this way. If you are satisfied with Dark souls 3 launching with 20ish unique bosses, then logically you should be satisfied with 80+ unique bosses. They gave you 4x more unique bosses than any other Souls game at launch, so how are you guys not satisfied with that. If you choose to just focus on the fewer copy pasted bosses, you are entirely missing the point on how spoiled you are with Elden Ring. Every open World does copy paste to some degree. The larger your game is, the more copy pasting there will be.

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

it unrealistic to have all unique even you have more time and budget game cant come out in devolop time frame 3-5 year it take long time than that and it not worth to make the game that take so long

[@charlesh4463]

Huge Zelda fan. MM is my favorite game of all time. Despise BOTW.

[@LooseCo]

Wow I actually agree with Cohh on this one. Loving the game and the locations all look insane and lived in, it's the most fully realized looking open world game I've ever seen. But I'm not a huge fan of seeing all the reused bosses. The skeleton in a boat was very cool the first time I saw it. The second time it wasn't cool anymore. The big lizard mummy... thing you fight underground, I thought that fight was sick. I was less excited seeing him later on. Same with things like the tree sentinel, or the elder tree bosses, etc. I think if they did this again and just made the world a LITTLE smaller so the bosses aren't reused and it could be nearly perfect.

[@argentoAFK47]

Yeah, not just bosses, but you go through several entire late-game areas fighting the same mobs as you did in the first half of the game. The late-game legacy dungeons look stunning and mob placement is challenging and enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but mob combat design seemed to have stopped after reaching the 4th main boss, with only very slight changes to mobs skills (generally "they do elemental damage now", or "they puke"). I can think of only 1 meaningful reskin and retooling of a mob's kit that surprised me, and that's it; no new combat surprises outside of important bosses in the last 40 or so hours of the game.

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

I'd agree with stuff like the Eldertree avatar boss fights and the Boats or giant lizzards, however I feel tree sentinal boss fights do have some variance in gameplay that I am fine with them

[@lilfuzzballa]

I would respect Cohh's opinion on re-used assets, until I realized Cohh didnt seem to have much to complain about the insane amount of re-used assets in his most favorite games like Fallout and Witcher 3. No Problem fighting mutiple Behemoths, Mirelurk Queens, or Deathclaws...that is all awesome, but apparently when you have around 60 unique bosses in Elden Ring, and 20 of them are copies, its a major problem. Cant wait to go inside my 8th discovered vault in Fallout 4 and see a bunch of the same interior models and tilesets being used and connected in the same way... highlight of the game. Im also a big fan of the dozens of "place of power" obelisk scattered all over Witcher 3. It never gets old to run up to one and kneel in front of it for my reward. But goddamn am I tired of all these ruins in Elden Ring where its the same thing every time, in order to collect a talisman. Seems like he excuses these kinds of things for games hes a big fan of.

[@neamraven]

Cohh totally doesn't understand Souls XD

[@KyngD469]

I dont think it's gatekeeping. We already get exposition for 99% of games. Why cant we just have 1 without. Cant we just enjoy the obscure charm in and of itself?

[@Kmaitland89]

This game is not Dnd. It’s just an rpg. Dnd is much different 😊 It’s insane how wrong they are on all of this. Just wrong statements after wrong statements. Can’t be just a mage, yes you can. I’m super high level at 120, no you’re not. The list goes on and on.

[@MukiMuki688]

The way Elden Ring is, was the norm up until 2009. Then the industry became obsessed with QTEs, which were jarring because it didn't mesh with the primary interaction mechanism (shooting, exploration, spell casting, etc). Then when that got played out, devs thought how they could be more subtle in implementing secondary game mechanics... hence, in game exposition... telling you what to do and where to go. Street Fighter 6 - Ryu Theme Guitar MV - EX Plus Alpha kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpTSmmWPpdickMk King of Fighters 15 Nameless theme Guitar MV kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2qam4anra6aZtk Gundam Hathaway Main Theme Guitar MV (Senkou) kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZCUaYabecSmj6s

[@kylemartin8804]

JP assumes all people love looking up exact spoilers and has no problem telling you all the "cool things he's experienced" not realizing, or caring. That the thing that made it cool was seeing it without knowing it exists. THANKS JP!

[@KyngD469]

God of War is just gonna be a movie with gameplay controls. Horizon Forbidden West is a joke. Elden Ring is GOTY.

[@4tCa4mzUPqRZZo]

Beaten Elden Ring last night. Got to say, while I enjoyed the open world for the most part, I do think the bosses in this game are the worst in the series? Which is a huge disappointment since Sekiro had some of the best imo. Too many duo bosses for me. People obviously point out that this game encourages you to summon spirits, but what's interesting about that? It's one thing if you could do combos or something interesting with your summoned spirit, but for the most part, it's just you attack one boss, while your spirit distract the other one. What's interesting about that? Feel like the music is a bit forgettable in this game as well. Having a lot of fun with pvp, and curious to see what level and the develops.

[@kevinlist3330]

How many hours did you put into it on completion and seems as though you didn't actually like it tbh.

[@4tCa4mzUPqRZZo]

@@kevinlist3330 81 hours. I liked it enough that I beat the game.

[@kevinlist3330]

@@4tCa4mzUPqRZZo It's nice to see a different opinion compared to the fanatic fanboys that will defend it to the death lol or the people that trash it, so yeah you played 81 hours completed it but it's not like GOTY to you? just a good game that you completed.

[@4tCa4mzUPqRZZo]

@@kevinlist3330 yeah

[@Kmaitland89]

Honestly if you are going to talk about elden ring for an entire episode, you might just want to say spoilers and ACTUALLY talk about elden ring. Instead of dancing around every word. I get it, but it's not much of an Elden Ring conversation like this.

[@tannerdietz3865]

80% of the game is 20% copied 5x which would be pretty bad if that 20% wasn’t really good but it is what it is.

[@passdoutcouchpotatos]

Elden ring is a huge step backwards for open world games for me. I vastly prefer the Horzion method of telling you what is possible and completing it all the way through

[@MrRadiantMan]

Elden ring's bosses and wide variety of combat options shit on horizon...horizon's open world is very much of a generic open world which has a bunch of to do lists while elden ring's open world is a sandbox which i massively prefer..however this is just my opinion.

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

_Here lays the body of Sstargamer, another fallen comrade that has been cucked by the Ubisoft formula._

[@MrRadiantMan]

@@kevinlist3330 Lol did u just delete ur comment after it turns out that your holier than thou attitude was just bullshit 😂..stick to calling others pathetic nerds and fanboys dude

[@nolanlehman6392]

Did you see that meme "if ubisoft made elden ring" cause horizon is alot closer to that hand holding bullshit