Wera vs. PB Swiss vs. Wiha comparisons Caliper Death match L Key, Allen Wrench, Hex Wrench

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I met Roof Repair Techs (Find him on Instagram here / roofrepairtechs ) at the KC meet and greet this last weekend and he thought he had some tools you guys would like for me to review. So here we go. In this video we will check out the ‘slop’ or tolerances between a few of the major German tool companies.
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[@Etna.]

Hi there, I think you are missing the point of the geometry of the Wera set. It is not about tolerances. It is about where the force is is applied on the screw. I've compared them with Gedore, Hazet, Wiha and Wisent with a damaged screw head. When all the others won't grip the screw anymore, the Wera keys where the only one being able to loose and tighten the screw.

[@HardKnocksForge]

I understand that but I was doing a video on the tolerances of the hex keys. I will have a video in the future testing these in damaged fasteners.

[@Etna.]

Hi there! Yes, you have measured some widths, but with wich intend? You haven't even have a look at the DIN ISO 2936:2016-10 or other norms to compare it against something. So therefore your conclusion is kinda worthless in this regard. I still enjoyed your video. Don't get me wrong. It was fun to see so many kexs side by side. I am not a Wera fanboy either. I thing they overdo their packaging, I hate their cheap plastic holders and I don't like their handles. Wiha does a much better job there. But the Hex-Plus safed my ass to often to not love them. Regards, Etna.

[@ccmogs5757]

True , its the hex-plus factor which mainly sells their keys ,

[@athomas2k8]

CC MOGS so are you suggesting not purchasing them? I was considering the wear or the Swiss

[@HunGredy]

@@athomas2k8 I absolutely suggest to go with the Wera, so far it was the only set that could remove damaged fasteners when the others failed. I should also point out Wera has a US patent for the geometry and until that expires, they hold the line. Once that's out, probably all manufacturers wioll try their best with it and it will become an industry standard.

[@thomasschonmann7599]

Let yourself be told by a German mechanical engineer: If you had understood the principle of Wera Hex Plus, you would know that the application of force does not take place in the corners of the hexagon but on it's surfaces. To accomplish this it is necessary to design the tool a little bit undersized.

[@HardKnocksForge]

I understand the principle. It's the same exact principle as the Snap On flank drive (patented in 1966) and the SK Sure Grip. Just inverted to work on the Allen head screws. If precision fitting of fasteners wasn't important then why would PB Swiss and Vessel make the best fitting screwdrivers out there? They are as close to a precision perfect fit that they don't ruin fasteners. I know that even around here, when it comes to medical operating rooms, they use PB Swiss drivers, not Wera hex plus. I was measuring for precision and had a hard time getting the 'normal' Wera L key wrenches. I'm trying to do a whole series, eventually, with every option of L keys out there. If you have a couple sets laying around I'd sure like to measure them for my next video. Email here [e-mail]

[@macvos]

@@HardKnocksForge that only works when the bolts are made with the same tight tolerances. For pricey medical equipment, I surely hope they use good quality bolts. However, building IKEA furniture and maintaining bikes, this isn't always the case unfortunately. Therefore, for most use cases I prefer the Hex Plus keys. I understand using PB Swiss for medical equipment though. They are very high quality.

[@saiiiiiii1]

Wait shouldn't the surfaces be convex then instead of concave? Doesn't make sense what HKF measured then. Force on the corners would be even higher if the surfaces were concave.

[@lammatt]

@@saiiiiiii1 the force is exerted on the corners, you're right But the concave geometry spreads and translates the mechanical strain into the shaft better and hence the user would feel like there is more torque

[@macvos]

@@sandy_knight honest question: does Shimano XTR use different bolts than Deore? Because XT and Deore seem to use the same.

[@l30n7788]

I bought a set of the wera hex plus about a year ago and I have to say they are superb coming from a set of bondhus Allen keys. I found the bondhus to be average in quality due to rounding the 4mm and below and snapping a 6mm. The hex plus works brilliantly whenever there is a rounded head in the shop everyone borrows my set and it's yet to fail! My only gripe with weras is that if they get heavy use with coolant or oil around the sleeves will eventually come off and won't fit in the holder without them on. Save yourself some money and get the plain metal ones and you've got a good set that'll last a while and get you out of bother with those rounded heads.

[@ronsbeerreviewstools4361]

Good review on those wrenches.I like the different colors denoting different sizes . I bought colored metric sockets at Harbor Freight , and it's working out good . cheers !

[@jeffharper410]

The Bondhus use a special alloy called protanium, try breaking one. Spring steel / chrome vanadium is far cheaper than you think. S2 and Chromolly cost much more. Like most things that have to have both sheer strength and ductile properties, it is all in the heat treatment.

[@chriscas-ToolAficionado]

I've had the Wera's for 6 years or so and I've been sold by the the Hex-Plus profile as it really does work. There's a Japanese company called Vessel that has been producing hex keys with a Hex-Plus like profile as well. Asahi is another Japanese manufacturer that has been producing hex keys (and bit sockets) using the ball-retension method. I have a set and they work good. Ko-ken, another Japanese tool makers, has bit sockets with essentially the same retention method as those Wiha Magic Rings.

[@HardKnocksForge]

I saw a guy put out a video on the wera vs the wiha retention devices earlier today. I didn't know Vessel made L keys. I know their screwdrivers are awesome especially when it comes to Japanese JIS screws which some guys cornfuse with Philips screws. I have been looking at some Ko-Ken stuff here lately as well.

[@chriscas-ToolAficionado]

Yeah, I saw that video by GTR today. Vessel makes quite a few things, including pneumatic tools, and even, of all things, anti-static tools and foot mats. The thing about JIS screwdrivers is that most people aren't aware that Vessel has stopped producing screwdrivers made to JIS standards many years ago. They are produced to international standards that's backwards compatible with JIS screws. If you REALLY want JIS screwdrivers, you need to get something vintage/NOS. Ko-ken is awesome stuff in my books!

[@mynameisyasser]

Really enjoyed the delivery and choice of words haha Nice video

[@HardKnocksForge]

Much appreciated!

[@gregoryderosa8045]

Does the pb Swiss have a jacket or is it paint.. get into a lot of tight spaces

[@tatsngrass]

I love how the Wiha set opens to make them easy to grab. They all use very high grade steels but I'm betting the PB Swiss would hold up the longest

[@HardKnocksForge]

The PB Swill will hold up longer being as how the steel is a much better quality steel then the other two. I think they have the best steel in the L key game, even though I've heard tales of Bondhus going to the same spring steel that PB Swiss uses.

[@rodprice2178]

PB Swiss are practically indestructible. Ran Swiss made Bobst Die Cutters for 43 years and had a set of PB hex keys that I still use at home.

[@clintwalton319]

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting! Good looking stuff

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I'd snatch up those Wiha but that's just my opinion and I don't do a lot with hex keys. If I did I know which ones I'd get though.

[@steventaylor5687]

This was a good comparison video and it's got me thinking about which ones I'm gonna buy. I was gonna buy the Wera but now I'm thinking the Wiha is the ones to get. I also like the way they come in that holder.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah that holder is slick. Even when it's open the keys won't fall out. There is still some pressure there to hold them in. They are the most precise on tolerances, even though we're talking about hairs. The one thing I liked about those also was the spring tip on the long end. It'll hold whatever screw you need so it only takes one hand and just makes everything so much simpler.

[@bodgitandleggitgarage]

Interesting video mate job well done

[@HardKnocksForge]

Which ones do you have Leon? How is the reputation of PB Swiss over there? I just found out about them but those L keys made quite an impression on me.

[@abcdefg3386]

The slightly smaller dimensions of the Wera might have to do with their "Hex-Plus"-profile. Also you should take the radius of the edges in to consideration. The sharper the edges, the better the grip in the fastener.

[@BLASTIC0]

Ding Ding Ding. Great thinking my friend!

[@802dieselcrew8]

I always have trouble with hex and Allen key. I like socket based tool that I can wrap a hammer on for good measure. Though any of these sets would serve their own purposes. Good video HKF.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah if I were going with a set for strength and the ability to maybe throw a pipe on from time to time I'd go with the PB Swiss. They are made out of a much better steel than the other two and could handle way more abuse.

[@garyclemons2689]

Nice keep up the great work bro

[@volcomguy51]

Great video!

[@fa-ajn9881]

Kind if maddening that you can only get the magic ring without the color coding...

[@timsworkshop85]

Really good review man. It looks like for the price you cant beat those wiha wrenches.

[@HardKnocksForge]

I like them also. They seem to be the best value for sure.

[@Tech-my1fo]

Never heard of any of them . 🗯 Thanks info assimilated 🎯

[@willietierney5319]

I have a slightly cheaper wera pkl hex plus set in daily use for over a year. Everybody in our workshop has changed to these after seeing how good they are. You can definitely apply more torque with the plus feature.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah honestly that's why I believe they were the 'sloppiest' as far as specs. Without that hex plus feature they may have been closer to the PB Swiss and Wiha.

[@ifitsnotbrokenfixit1193]

I would not have thought that they where better than pb Swiss. Thanks for the video.

[@HardKnocksForge]

That's what roof repair techs said. He told me after we measured the all the 10mm keys that he was sure PB Swiss would have had better tolerances, because they advertise on how tight of tolerances they have. I'd heard of Wera and Wiha before but I don't have any and PB Swiss I just learned about Saturday when RRT showed up to the meet and greet and brought a car full of tools with him.

[@ifitsnotbrokenfixit1193]

Hard Knocks Forge I put my dirty meat Grabbers on some PB SWISS screwdrivers at Junkies meet up for the first time and i will be getting some. They really impressed me. Its the attention to detail.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Dave Tumbleson yes roof repair techs had some as well and I was really impressed also. The handles were superior to any I've ever fondled. They felt like they were made out of unicorn hides. Maybe not, but they were pretty damn exotic.

[@ccolagio_]

For what its worth - I just measured my 2mm bondhus standard issue hex L with my mitutoyo cd-6 asx digital calipers and i got dead nuts 2.00mm on each of the 6 sides. accuracy of size alone is likely not the way to test for best hex.

[@harveysmith100]

I have a set of Wiha with the magic rings. Really good. Wiha make top quality stuff. Love their screwdrivers, they have super handles

[@HardKnocksForge]

I like Wiha's handles as well. Only foreign handles that are better are the PB Swiss...

[@BrenticusMaximus1]

In real work use on somewhat rounded fasteners the Wera will get it out when the others fail. I'd personally take Wera or PB Swiss over Wiha. Price should be the least important consideration when purchasing tools.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yep, I'd be more inclined to go for the PB Swiss. I just think they would last longer than the others.

[@FCwilliamsUSN]

I just measured my wera vs bondhus. Wera was inconsistent measuring from 9.96, 9.97 and 9.98 on each side of the 10mm. Bondhus was a consistent 9.97 all around.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yep one of these days I’ll get a video up of USA, Taiwan and maybe just for fun some chinese hex wrenches.

[@jpasby779]

Wiha looks the best out of the bunch. A German tool brand I like is Knipex. I have had 2 of there 10 inch Wire cutters for extensive work purposes, the first lasting and cutting a lot and good 5 nights a week for at least a year, replacing the first pair because I lost them. I cut threw cable wire, chains, crews, and nails with these things small diameter of course.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Wiha was the best fitting or least sloppy fitment. You can't go wrong with a good pair of anything Knipex.

[@GarnettTools]

Awe man do I have some questions for you

[@southgeorgiatools3374]

When I first saw this, I was pretty heavy on the wera stuff. Very tight tolerances on most of their tools. But apparently the weha is a little tighter tolerance.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah and even though it's all just 'splitting hairs' when it comes down to it. The PB Swiss are made outta freaking spring steel. Talk about a hex you can slide a pipe onto...

[@donotrobme9295]

Wera wiha we r all typing typos and trying to type the other. No one knows anyone’s opinion. By the time I’m done watching I can’t keep track of which is which so I went Swiss ha ha

[@davidyoung6608]

Nice set dude.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Roof Repair Techs has a ton of really nice high quality tools. I can't wait to go back and shoot some more videos with him.

[@ROMANEMPIRE69]

Would be nice if you tested all 3 on an actual tight fasteners. I have wiha, was gonna get nepros, then I found out about PB Swiss. For torx bits I may get PB Swiss.

[@HardKnocksForge]

You can't go wrong with PB Swiss anything...

[@chriscas-ToolAficionado]

I think the numbers you see with the Wera is simply due to the Hex-Plus profile. It's basically flank-drive, instead of edge-drive, like the others are. I think that needs to be taken into account when analyzing these numbers.

[@chriscas-ToolAficionado]

Not to mention...the Hex-Plus shines when the fastener your dealing with has been marred up. Where the others will fail, the Hex-Plus will still work. This was my experience. So, if you always dealing with clean/unmolested fasteners, then the standard hex key profile will suffice, IMO.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Right

[@BeerStud]

Thanks for the video, I like the color concept of identifying the different sizes, just don't think I can have the rainbow warriors in my box. That's great looking ratchet, I bet it will pair up with those Mac socket set you won.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yes it will. I got the sockets today so i'm doing the video on them tomorrow-ish. I didn't know that's what they were, I wasn't expecting them until tomorrow. I guess they are practicing on getting things out quicker since the holiday season starts soon. Gotta get them guys back into shape...

[@BeerStud]

Hard Knocks Forge, I was surprised when I checked the tracking number and seen that they was on your porch. I can't wait to see your video, and see what is your thoughts on those short sockets.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Beer Stud I think I just uploaded it... if not it will be tomorrow's video.

[@chaddles623]

All these brands make non colored version also for less, it just makes it easier to identify the size by color, like Wera Sockets use the same colors as there Wrenches and other stuff they make, Wiha makes a more neutral color coded not so Rainbow colors and also black or stainless, and same with PB Swiss make some stainless also or solid colors for all sizes in the set (all red or all blue or all green and so on, even gold plated keys)

[@icemonk12]

Great vid brother 👍 i like that friction ring the wiha have👍🔧🔩

[@HardKnocksForge]

Same here, and I like the fancy ass holder they come in also.

[@accountshanahan]

That isn't slop on the Wera, the hex+ pattern is designed to grip the hex of the screw slightly back from the corner meaning the flats side to side are deliberately undersize. Look at a graphic on how hex+ works for better detail. All three are nice tools though so can't really go wrong though PB Swiss prices in Europe are crazy expensive, normally double and a bit more compared to Wera or Wiha for anything they make L keys, screwdrivers, micro drivers etc. It's mad that you get better prices in the US for a euro made tool that we do in Europe!

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah the prices normally don’t work like that. I’ve actually bought some German tools and had them shipped over for half of what some companies over here charge for the exact same tools.

[@mattmcmillan8920]

I myself have huskys big ass set of saw and metrics and they are alright for what I use them for, so therefore I will go with the s-k Ratchet love my s-k tools.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yep I was thinking the same thing on those hex wrenches. Yeah I'm an SK fan also...

[@chrischiampo8106]

Electrical Tape makes a Good Retention Device My Guess is Wera Will Win the Torque Test The Extra Slop is For the 20% More Torque Feature 😎👨🏼‍🔧 Cool Video Knocks Can’t Wait Till you Test them against each other 👍🏼

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I'm working on how to test them. I have some ideas, but haven't settled on any one just yet.

[@user-lw3ni7nb8z]

Why would you not of measured all the sides of the key. Then compared the consistency. Come on man...

[@schoder78]

Not surprised by your findings wiha is hitting it out of the park with their products

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I never knew they were that good. You'd think they'd advertise that fact a little more. Those PB Swiss ones left a really good impression on me. Making them from spring steel is just next level.

[@user-lw3ni7nb8z]

The wera hex keys suck if your using them everday. Imperial is missing the 9\64 key. The writing on them wear off quick . Not to mention ball end broke on my 4mm. They are considered consumables so no replacement . And lastly that coating is more of a hinderence when you need that extra 32 of an inch. Really disappointed because I'm a wera fan.

[@BLASTIC0]

Dude, Wera and Wiha gotta work something out with the name. I ALWAYS get these guys mixed up. 😂

[@yourtoolssuck1459]

The wera have a built in demagnetizer in there case. I wouldn’t say that’s a feature worth more then a couple bucks tho

[@HardKnocksForge]

No it's nice but I have a magnetizer and demagnetizer sitting on my bench for when I need to do that. I guess it's good for the guys that work in the field all the time but it's not something that increases the value of those L Keys, not for me anyway.

[@mihigyver]

i just know pb swiss and it isent possible to destroy them, just the colors fall of.. when you use them in combination with hamers and pliers...

[@B.E.Long.63]

Them allen wrenches are bad ass, have the set from wera... not cheap but bad ass...

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah, they make nice tools for sure. They all impressed me in one way or another.

[@patcb829]

My guess was PB Swiss given I know how pricey they are. That Wiha holder is awesome. I have been wanting to try the Wera L keys with that hex plus but now I will have to check out the Wihas as well. Not that I need any more Allen keys to begin with.

[@HardKnocksForge]

You always need another set. Give the old ones to your old lady and tell her they are for putting Ikea furniture together so she needs a set in the house...

[@patcb829]

Hard Knocks Forge Not a bad idea, we put two IKEA dressers together once, our relationship barley survived.

[@HardKnocksForge]

OMG I bet there was months of counseling after that ordeal just to sleep in the same room again. I'm glad it all worked out though. Ex-wives still cost you money...

[@JUSTINSTURGILLTRUCKING]

Great review Knox Did you buy all three sets

[@HardKnocksForge]

Nope, I don't need them. I have other cheaper sets that get me by, but if I needed some really good ones I'd go ahead and pick up the Wiha. I'm going to test out some other hex in the future and I'll measure up the same sizes so eventually I'll compare all of them.

[@JUSTINSTURGILLTRUCKING]

Hard Knocks Forge cool Knox

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yes I am!

[@chaddles623]

These are all my L-Keys, German & Swiss tools also

[@tadejfu]

You forgot to mention Wera features the hexplus design, proven to be way better than the standard hex design, this is a big factor in the pricing. You get a way better hex key for a bit more $. The hexplus design is sure to be copied as soon as the patent runs out. If you have problems with overtorqued or damaged hex bolts, wera hexplus is the way to go.

[@MikesToolShed]

This is the exact 3 sets I was looking at, great comparison. Would have been interesting to throw a husky or a HF in there for a cheap example.

[@HardKnocksForge]

I mostly have Eklind, maybe some Proto, craftsman, and some Kobalt. The Kobalt and Proto are the 'pocket knife style' I'll keep doing this with other brands when they come out and measure the same sizes every time so that eventually I'll have every company compared against each other.

[@Italyshero23]

Mike's Tool Shed . That wiha is my go too mike, you wouldn't think the magic ring screw holder would be all that handy but I use it a lot. Really nice set, I'm not saying pull the trigger but... pull the trigger on the wiha. 👌🏼

[@HardKnocksForge]

The ring never loses magnetism either, and really does hold onto fasteners better than anything I've ever used.

[@robswrenches9501]

Great comparison Knockers. You've got to get him into making content. Walk him through another vid or two and tell him to give it a go.👍

[@HardKnocksForge]

That's what I'm doing Rob I think he has a lot of good content just sitting there waiting to be filmed and showed off to the guys here in the community.

[@robswrenches9501]

Precisely! He just needs a little encouragement is all.

[@chaddles623]

There my tools but i sound like a little kid on video

[@robswrenches9501]

Roof Repair Techs You'll get over how you sound to yourself, we all have to. None of us know what your voice really sounds like and people's focus is gonna be on the tool porn that you provide and WHAT you say, more so than HOW you sound. There are young kids that make videos here and there, we're used to that. Have no hangups RRT, you'll be fine.👍👍👍👍👍😎

[@alloymetals123]

PB Swiss are the best, been using for over 10 years on the same set and still going strong, just using a digital calipers measuring the size doesn't tell me much, not to mention the life time warranty that PB Swiss offers. I would like to see you torque some bolts down and see which set rounds the fastener first and which set can remove the rounded fastener.

[@HardKnocksForge]

I'm working on that right now...

[@meyer097able]

Wera is still the better of the 3 imo, there designed with more slack on purpose. More torque without damaging the inside of the bolt head..

[@HardKnocksForge]

I've heard other guys say the same thing. I think you are maybe less likely to damage one that's already damaged with the Wera, but I think precision on new and undamaged fasteners is where you want less 'slop'. Keep in mind though, we're talking about half a hair of slop vs 1 1/2 hairs of slop, so they are all closer to precision fit than junk L keys. I think that hex plus feature is the reason they aren't near as close as the PB and Wiha keys. I'm looking into testing just what kind of torque we can get out of these guys for a future video. Just haven't nailed down how I'm going to test them though.

[@FCwilliamsUSN]

Wonder how bondhus stacks up to the germans

[@HardKnocksForge]

When I get some more USA L keys I'll measure them up also. I may actually do a china vs Taiwan video as well...

[@Teddyturmoil]

Nice review but also you have to consider that PB Swiss also do a snap ring on the end of their Hex key sets to hold the screw but they give you the option of having a set without it. Also I have had every make going and used them daily and none of them hold up as long as the PB Swiss. 23 years Ive had my PB Keys and they are still awesome. Wera and Wiha don't last long at all when your using them on a daily basis, also too many heads have been rounded off with the other sets if you want the best for continuous use PB all the way!!! Link for PB Swiss with optional spring ring. www.pbswisstools.co.uk/catalog/PB_Swiss_Tools/PB_212.LR_H-10.html

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I think the PB Swiss keys have the best keys for longevity. I'll have to look at their spring ring keys. Sometimes us Americans don't know what all they offer over there because the stores we buy from only have certain things and don't carry everything. Thanks for the link.

[@Teddyturmoil]

Ah ok guess being in the UK and a bit closer helps no probs thanks for the review

[@SachsVDE]

I think that the ring in the Wiha set is ingenious...💡!!Cuz the Automotive industry are making these compact engines with few tight spaces around...So Wiha think where does't go ur hand ,the Hex key can easy tighten that Bolt..very smart!👍

[@imreptar7038]

im sure someone has already said but both wera and wiha, the W's are pronounced as a V

[@HardKnocksForge]

Maybe in Germany but not here in the free world...

[@wouter_scholten]

The W's in German are NOT pronounced as V in English. You are clearly, as everyone who comments about this, not fluent in German. If you just had a listen to some videos or films in German, you would know this. The German pronunciation of W is closer to the English V than the English W in being not as pronounced, but the V is just a different type of sound. If you would say 'Vera' a German would think you say a woman's name. If you say Wera with a rather pronounced W sound, he knows you're not German (and not fluent in German) but he will understand you... So saying it with an English V is definitely worse than an English W. Correct pronunciation: Start with W then soften towards V. Listen to some German videos.

[@johnf817]

Im sure someone has told you he isnt in Germany.

[@Ttw1976]

Why was there no stress test to see which ones stood up

[@HardKnocksForge]

I wasn’t really into testing the warranties these companies provide…

[@Ttw1976]

🤣🤣👍

[@Ttw1976]

@@HardKnocksForge which ones would you say are more durable

[@HardKnocksForge]

@@Ttw1976 I do like the PB Swiss ones…

[@Ttw1976]

K ty

[@zhouye7647]

I don't think a caliper is accurate enough, you need a micrometer at least.

[@AnthraxVX]

the PB Swiss ARE chrome plated

[@BruceLyeg]

Admit it, you like opening and closing that WIHA holder. It's pretty cool. right? I have an electrician friend that has a set and he had to grab them outta my hand. I wanted to steal them from him. I can always make new friends. Thanks for the video.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah that organizer is hella cool. I had to edit about 45 seconds of me just playing with it while the camera was rolling. I know how a kid with a fidget spinner feels now. I could play with that thing all day and not get tired of it. Yep you can always get new friends...

[@mattmcmillan8920]

sae and metrics.

[@ptazman101]

If you really want to do measurements that precise, use the correct measuring tools to do it, ie micrometer. Just sayin

[@HardKnocksForge]

I wish I had a mic, gauge blocks, etc... but sadly that’s the drawer that’s lacking in my toolbox. I’ve wanted to do more comparisons like this one but I haven’t because of that very reason.

[@ptazman101]

Hard Knocks Forge just so u know, the effort is still appreciated. Funny enough, I love German and Swiss micrometers, dial indicators, etc, German and Swiss have always been the best.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Oh yeah I'm a fan of their tools also. It's not as easy getting their tools here unless you go online, and I'm still more of a touchy feely kinda tool guy.

[@asmautollc]

I’m addicted to hex sockets, but those are perty. Sometimes you need em. Pretty sure my Elkinds aren’t spring steel lol. Wonder how they stack up against Bondhus. From what I’ve gathered from Forum comments & discussions over the years, Wiha tend to be a cut above. PB Swiss up there too. Wera popular, up there in quality, maybe slightly below the other two. All quality though. Can’t go wrong; matter of preference. Have noticed these German brands tend to be popular with the trades, esp electricians and guys who need high quality & precision bits for whatever they’re working on. SK! Hell yeah!!

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I may be able to get a hold of some Bondhus and compare them to the Wiha. It was the first time I've even heard of PB Swiss but I'm really impressed that they use spring steel and really all these keys were pretty damn close.

[@rustybrowneye]

I dont have a guess, i have no ideo

[@HardKnocksForge]

Weeeee HHHaaaa for the win unless you want some comfortable handles, then Wera's handles are better...

[@joelopez40oz23]

The rainbow allen key set look like color pencils.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah they do. It's kinda cool being able to just glance and grab the size you are looking for.

[@joelopez40oz23]

I dont know man. If my gay co-worker saw those in my possession he might make a move on me.

[@HardKnocksForge]

You just have to tell him that he can't afford you. Then who knows maybe he'll buy you something, and well that's when you'll have to make a choice.

[@Bluecollarworkingman]

I went with Bondus' colored set, sae and metric.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I think I can grab some of those also. If I do any more vids on hex tolerances I'll use the same sizes I did in this video so eventually I'll have kind of a library and see how they all measure up.

[@stefancarle906]

PB also do hex keys with the retention spring on the ball end

[@HardKnocksForge]

That's awesome news. I'll have to look those up. I may know a guy that would like a set of those...

[@mth280268]

11 minutes of my life I won't get back.

[@shanedm3396]

Poor guy

[@EditioCastigata]

Those are the brands best known outside Germany, but within we recognize Gedore, Hazet, Stahlwille, and others. The aforementioned are said to be better, which might not be true and left to you to test. ;-) Btw, you seem to be paying more than twice we do in the country.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yeah I’ve known about Gedore, Hazet, and Stahlwille for a long time. It’s just not something we can get over here without jumping through lots of hoops. Oh and talk about expensive... Wiha and Wera aren’t even close to how expensive those other brands are here.

[@EditioCastigata]

@@HardKnocksForge I've clicked through the go-to shops here, and they indeed won't ship to the Estados. But you can use Mygermany.com or Borderlinx. Adds about 20$/kg, but still cheaper than KC Tools and similar. (voelkner.de, contorion.de, banemo (see geizhals.at/de for price comparisons))

[@HardKnocksForge]

Thanks I’ll give them a look. We have a new company coming out here in June (maybe July) called haus of tools that’s supposed to carry more German made tools. Hopefully their prices are more in line with Chadstoolbox.com and not KC tool.

[@n30a]

German tools.... the brand name is PB Swiss. Germany is not Swiss

[@EditioCastigata]

It's one of our two disputed provinces, like China to Taiwan. ;-)

[@athhud]

Tolerances be damned. Wera hex plus is the way to go. "Spring Steel" doesn't really tell us much. All of those keys are made of "spring steel".

[@HardKnocksForge]

I found no mention of spring steel in what the L keys were made of except for PB Swiss. Spring steel is much tougher and more resilient to breakage vs other tool steels.

[@athhud]

+Hard Knocks Forge that's because "spring steel" is a very vague term that describes a plethora of different steels/alloys/temperaments. It really doesn't tell you anything about the tool material. Without any specification, it's little more than a marketing gimmick.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Could be marketing but I'm sure the PB Swiss will outlast anything else out there. There's no gimmick when it comes to PB Swiss and quality tools.

[@athhud]

+Hard Knocks Forge I won't argue that. It would just be nice if these companies would provide measurable data that actually means something. If a high dollar tool is made of an expensive alloy or goes through a more demanding heat treatment, people will gladly pay for it. When they start using terms that try to make an industry standard sound proprietary, I hesitate to take the bait.

[@giuliogemino6407]

This is stupid because you don't have to use a socket doing comparisons, even about retention (socket of course has its tolerances calculated for the external hex of nuts or bolts and sometime apply slightly different shape to develop more torque power without rounding bolt head...). You should use different proper Allen screws samples to get some conclusions repeating the process to develop behavioral statistics to reason about how Allen wrenches work on same screw heads... how much they last, how they eventually mill internal hex, how they work under heavy torque load fastening or breaking loose... in the end you should use an hard-metric exam to measure the hardening tolerances of the wrench material.

[@HardKnocksForge]

Giulio Gemino I used the same socket on each L key. Doesn’t matter that it wasn’t an Allen screw. Allen screws have different tolerances between different manufacturers. Buying every flavor of Allen screw is not something I’m willing to do. You have lots of excellent ideas... I subscribed to your channel. Looking forward to your video on this subject. I even clicked the notification bell!!! Godspeed Giulio, Godspeed.

[@giuliogemino6407]

@@HardKnocksForge that are test commonly made by tools manufacturers in their laboratory also checking quality during mfg process and durability performance after... they are control procedures commonly spread in that industry either in order to get certifications such as DIN, ISO, UNI... TUV and an history. Some tech sheets and statistics are already available and real time updated because they are part of tools making. In a further time records about tools behavior are also made by their users on the assembly lines... sometimes this checks are discriminant choosing different screws or different screws supplier as scheduled consumables (e.g. inside a motor, or a wash-machine...) the same also is made on different key to tighten reporting all assembly issues... interruptions on continuous lines and maintenance cost serious money. Sometimes on automatic assembly lines you have also reports of every specific assembly torque on every single bolt. That on large scales is a necessity calculating costs, assembly times, considering assembly method applied, warranty... and so on... consider for instance as an application that aeronautic assembly bolts have also a conformity certification due radiography and absence of magnetic charge. Anyway a 10mm socket is of course larger than 10mm nut but inside it is also shaped e.g. snap-on use flank drive... an 8mm Allen screw is an hex with its tolerance...

[@HardKnocksForge]

Yes I understand all of that. The fact that both of them were able to hold onto the socket proves that they are both great at holding onto Allen screws even if the tolerances aren’t the same.