Icy... Win?

[@dylandangler366]

I can’t get enough of these Pokémon Stadium videos

[@BenFM]

Watch em constantly

[@Brain-washed2]

the guy did so goddamn well in both games even as a kid I didn't mind losing that much bc I loved his calls

[@Purlypurlington]

Samesies

[@Christoph8]

They’re a guilty pleasure.

[@johnmartinez7440]

I enjoyed Fury Cutter briefly illuminating Werster at 4:17

[@SethJV]

Oh yes, he has a cam.

[@YungNikey]

I didnt even realise he has cam on until i saw that LOL

[@Whurlpuul]

Pokemon Stadium 2 Used Flash! It's Super Effective!

[@fnln3011]

The power to pierce the darkness and defeat demon king Werster!

[@Monchan-l6h]

ITS GASTER

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

In gen 1 there was a bug where using a speed modifying move (like Agility) with a paralyzed mon would use the original speed as base for the calculation and make that the new value. For example if a mon had 200 speed and got paralyzed, it would drop to 50. However, if it then used Agility, the move would take the 200 original speed and double that, making its speed 400 (in fact that was the reason Agility was a somewhat viable move in gen 1). Maybe that bug carried over to Stadium 2, where Icy Wind took the original speed from Aerodactyl and reduced it by 33%, making it much faster than after the 75% speed drop from paralysis and faster than both Blissey and Flareon again.

[@hoodedman6579]

Note that the reason that that worked is that the paralysis speed drop was erroneously applied to the person whose turn it wasn't; an opponent inflicting the speed change should have it apply correctly instead.

[@thrasher698]

regardless, this is Stadium 2, so Gen 2 mechanics

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@thrasher698 apparently the glitch was fixed for stadium 1 but not for stadium 2 for some reasons, according to dataminers who implemented the stadium 2 metagame.

[@Hhhhhhhhjdjjdd]

Jesus christ, gen 1 is a mess.

[@blaacksugar7714]

I can't believe I understood that.

[@TophDaGreat]

2:40 Heart of the cards dood

[@andrewscott7067]

The game taketh from werster... the game giveth to werster

[@kwakba]

Apparently Trick Room existed in Gen 2

[@brunolinares604]

Emiko: *paralyzes with Thunder*: I'm a genius! Emiko: *goes for Icy Wind*: Oh no!

[@Meximole]

I tried to verify if this was correct as I remember reading it somewhere yet can’t find it so I’m unable to confirm if this is true. I could have sworn I read that if the speed stat is increased or decreased after being inflicted with paralysis, the paralysis speed reduction is overwritten by the new calculation. Which in this case the speed stat should have been acting as if Aerodactyl’s speed was only reduced once from Icy Wind. Again, I couldn’t find where I read this and it could have been for a different Pokémon game entirely. However with my limited knowledge this was the only solution I could come up with.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

In red/blue/yellow this was actually true, and the reason Agility was a viable move back then: not only did it double the speed, it also nullified the speed drops from paralysis. Maybe this just carried over to Stadium and then Stadium 2?

[@590488]

@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 gen two runs on gen ones engine so most of the glitches in the battle mechanics. You cam look it up in Earl's academy I'm pkm stadium 2, its interesting because it says that pokemon of the same types can't status each other with their types moves. (Something that smogon didn't realize until 2014)

[@PlaguevonKarma]

This is correct, it was discovered a while back by some people when Stadium 2 was being implemented on Pokemon Showdown. It's identical to RBY's, which is weird, since it was fixed in Stadium 1. So here, Aerodactyl was at default -1 Speed, letting it outrun Blissey and Flareon (177 VS 157/113), assuming the Speed stats are maxed at Level 75.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@PlaguevonKarma that is definitely weird, because when I found out the glitch was fixed in the original stadium I kinda ruled it out, because why would they let it into stadium 2 then? But apparently that's what happened.

[@skorpsaiyan2361]

I keep on rewatching this clip just to hear Werster's reaction. It is just priceless. 2:40

[@loki_cx]

did the icy wind speed drop somehow nullify the paralysis speed drop???

[@fuschiawarrior2159]

Maybe the paralisis and Icy Wind status drop made Aerodactyl speed underflow and it had a ludicrous high speed instead of a low one. Kind like +6 Attack Thick Club Marowak actualy has low attack because of data overflow but in the reverse.

[@590488]

In gens one and two rasing or lowering speed nullifies paralysis

[@Purlypurlington]

@@590488 good context

[@N12015]

That's a gen 1 glitch of all things.

[@Brain-washed2]

@@590488 but is that a stadium bug or a mainline bug? A lot of bugs were fixed in stadium games.

[@fuschiawarrior2159]

4:19 That red flash on Werster face cam.

[@frijolitoazul4343]

It was cooler when someone used fire blast

[@joeyno137]

Reminds me of how a +6 regieleki is fastest pokemon even in trick room

[@TheSwirlyMango]

Huh?

[@Josephextreme]

It enters the speed force.

[@jackepong6300]

The roars in the stadium games are still the best pokemon roars for these pokemon. Period. I never understood why in future games they made them pixelated again and ripped the sounds from the gameboy games when they had these high quality ones right here.

[@iCABALi]

The stat drop nullified the paralysis effects as would a speed increase. So instead of quarter speed and then -1 you were just at -1. Agility whilst paralysed was a common strat to get +2 speed and only have the paralysis chance to worry about.

[@TurnTheHeatonNow]

this discovery is blessed by the fact you avoided full paralysis twice

[@RMLK]

Happened to me years ago. In ps2 if you are paralyzed and speed drops it’s like you were never paralyzed and only suffered a speed lost that’s how you outspeed the thinhs

[@NewZen41]

Pokemon Stadium 2 is truly the most fickle lover around. This is like if your significant other cooks you a meal, throws it on you, apologizes, then licks the food off of you and tells you to do the same...only to get mad and start the process all over. Wester Luck in a nutshell.

[@luukvankrugten7253]

It has to be a bug or an oversight. I think it works like this. When you are paralyzed your speed is cut to 1/4 of your normal speed. Icy wind lowers your speed stat by one stage. But I think that the icywind speed slow calculates the slow with your normale speed stat and doesnt take in consideration that you are paralyzed. A -1 speed aradectyle is faster than a blissy and a flareon I am pretty sure. But than again I am not some kind of Pokémon wizard so I could be wrong. There are tons of bugs in these games so who knows what causes it.

[@sixtybuzzer8373]

The game must of gotten confused when a Pokemon already at .25 had it's speed lowered and instead made you faster. Gen 2 is wild.

[@KingStr0ng]

Underflowed to +6

[@PlusmaGun]

Like how Cubone or Marowak with Thick Club that uses Swords Dance so many times that its Attack goes to 999, but then resets all the way back at 0? The more you know...

[@moemm299]

I totally was going to say Counter until I saw the Flareon pick Fire Blast

[@deezcastforms]

My first instinct would be to say it was some kind of underflow below 0 back into the 900s, since this came has overflow glitches with boosts, but I can't figure out how the math could possibly work out to actually get the stat that low.

[@Zamamikol]

According to Bulbapedia, Stadium 2 fixed the stat overflow problem. Nothing is listed about stat underflow in the list of glitches though.

[@cherryb0ng]

That's because it doesn't do that. No stat goes below 1 ever.

[@brightpowder_cena]

Fury Cutter Pinsir, welcome back wolfpack

[@briandiomede7354]

My only guess is maybe the game used aerodactyl's base speed and lowered it by a stage to calculate who goes first instead of the using new speed aerodactyl should have with paralysis? Like maybe the calculation of speed with a stage drop is prioritized over the calculation of speed when paralyzed?

[@Crow0567]

Yep! This is a known bug in gen 1 and 2. If your speed stat is modified in any other way, speed calcs ignore the paralysis speed drop

[@Shadrake]

What in the world was that XD Let's go speed 'drop'

[@Shadrake]

Oh hey past me

[@robopiplup5193]

Gen 1 jank blessing us from beyond the grave.

[@Crankulite]

I am curious if someone is able to explain this?

[@damascusraven]

His Aero was paralyzed, which automatically lowers its speed making it slower than Blissy. Next it was hit by Icy Wind which also lowers its speed. Somehow the 2 stacking speed drops bugged out and made him faster than the Blissy.

[@YURTZYN42]

Its like it got so slow that it fucking overlapped and got 999 speed or something lmaoooo kinda like when I get so hungry I just fucking forget that I'm hungry, makes perfect fucking sense!

[@courtney1496]

Must be a glitch, that icy wind should have dented its speed. Then again, Blissey and Flareon have crap base speed against an Aerodactyl, so

[@emilia935]

But Blissey outsped after paralysis, so it must have been faster after icy wind.

[@iCABALi]

@@emilia935 stat change to speed overrides the speed drop effect of paralysis, just as changes to attack override burn attack drop.

[@emilia935]

@@iCABALi I figured that was the case, was just responding to the second half of the message. Thanks.

[@TechHug]

@@iCABALi I've never heard of either of those glitches, especially in Gen 2.

[@zedek6709]

@@TechHug must be a stadium only thing, not 100% sure through

[@parksyist]

Speed fell and paralyzed here have an extra turn 🤣

[@JMittenkit]

Steelix is my "Secret" friend. Always Rocks!

[@FecalMatador]

Does he…steel the show? I’ll leave

[@EvilApple567]

The good ol' Contrary Aero in Gen 2, sure do miss that thing yes indeedy

[@ultimatechampion139]

I would like to note that in Pokémon Stadium 2, this glitch applies to the Attack drop from burn as well, as you can see in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYKcYZSYqrSjZ6s

[@chancerobinson80]

Maybe the speed drop from icy wind calculated the speed from base speed and not factored paralysis?

[@chetdudeguy]

Basically it returned the speed to normal and dropped it by one, which would explain it being faster then Chansey and Flareon. This is my theory however.

[@danielametal8101]

Wester discovered a new stadium glitch...

[@Manwithopinions]

Well this is a form of luck I don’t think we’ve seen from Werster yet. Straight up code manipulation.

[@TechHug]

It fucking underflowed lmao

[@N12015]

This is definitively a gen 1 glitch. You see, paralysis in gen 1 could be overwritten by a regular speed modifier; that's an exploit people has known for years and why agility was considered a good move back then. Here's a brief explanation of this (Altough i assume you knew about it, Werster): kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJbZZIhsbJukqJo Apparently they copypasted part of gen 1 system instead of gen 2 or Stadium who fixed a lot of glitches in combat when making Stadium, meaning this glitch is possible in Stadium 2. In short: Unlike Stadium, Stadium 2 has some of the more subtle glitches of red/blue/yellow combat system despite being a gen 2 game. That's why icy wind tripled your Aerodactyl's speed. Remember that the next time you get paralyzed in that game because it's a live savior at times.

[@skorpsaiyan2361]

LMAO I did not expect that either. WTF man this game never seems to not surprise me. It is no Shiny Zap Cannon, but it still takes the cake!

[@cervgiovanni]

Love Aerodactyl speed. Gen 6, I had a genwun team and focus sash Aero was my lead for stealth rock.

[@Deadfiend99]

Similar to the gen 1 glitch stadium with a new one how many years later

[@TheDreamDojo]

Paralyzed *AND* Speed dropped. How did that even happen?! 0_0

[@TheHeartlessAlchemist]

I think it's an underflow. Used to happen when I payed Pokemon Yellow. After a few sand attacks, Thunder starts hitting every time.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

For an underflow a value has to drop below 0, which is just not possible through divisions. You can create an underflow in gen 1 because the exp chart is calculated in a way that some mons have a negative exp amount on level 1, something that doesn't matter usually since there are no natural level 1 mons. If you can glitch one though and manage to make a battle where you don't get enough exp to reach a positive value, the game then underflows and gives you maximum exp. But underflowing with stats just isn't possible.

[@hbarudi]

Finally things going your way...

[@Mahgnum]

werster aerodactly icy wind blissey poekmon "moemnts"

[@Carrottime]

Underflow?

[@luisramirezgarcia9666]

Contrary was there and we didn’t know!

[@RasenShot]

Spaghetti code to the rescue

[@cocomunga]

Could the Blissey have been trying to use counter?

[@Nsta1]

Maybe, but probably not because he outsped the flareon too

[@marcorodriguez8792]

I love the WHAT!?!

[@AmineSamus]

we're back to the dark cam baby.

[@worldsboss]

Guessing the speed underflowed? Very useful here lol

[@fnln3011]

Twerking flareon isn't something I thought I'd see today

[@somekindoflandcow]

It's gen 1 speed calcs all over again...

[@valthorix7347]

Aerodactyl has a base speed of 150 to flareon's 65. Even down three stages (icy wind drop plus paralyze) it's still very possible to outspeed or speed tie it if the flareon isn't plus speed, which why would it be. And counter is possible with the blissey.

[@AQW0RIDS]

Gen 2 no natures

[@Lacenlot]

In this generation there weren't nature for the Pokémon. This most likely was a bug

[@controversy3000]

well that's just it, the flareon doesn't have a plus speed nature since there are no natures. just gotta be lucky on the ev spreads and give blissey either a move that has low priority, or (like with the flareon) a bad ev spread and just outspeed/win the speed ties

[@shnoogums1]

Paralyze is 1/4*speed so 150/4 = 37.5. This plus a lowered speed stage would def put it lower than 65. Definitely bugged like werster said

[@AQW0RIDS]

@@controversy3000 not sure how the dvs are in stadium 2, but there no ev spreads in gen 2. They are can all be maxed out. Choosing evs and nature was gen 3

[@KazhnaLightfoot]

Aerodactyl just built different

[@Pika250]

Someone, please try this in free battle using the rentals. Confirm their speed stats, use Thunder Wave to paralyze, then use String Shot and check who moves first on the next turn.

[@TheMightyGiantDad]

So what happened? Why was the speed higher after the drop?

[@nineteenct]

Aerodactyl is my favorite Pokémon for a reason

[@itssevii3622]

Speed drop from para overridden by icy wind cause gen 2

[@smashbounduk3241]

Icy win!

[@bingewatcher4678]

Icy Wind instead rise your Aerodactyl's speed

[@Kyleeliasdonovan]

You know, I would be happy to watch unedited recordings of your streams regardless of the results of the run. The highlights are cool and appreciated, but I really loved your old stuff where I can watch hours of your content over the course of a few days.

[@ensuuu.]

I normally don’t make any comments, but for some reason *this* is the comment that compelled me. Werster has a playlist named “stream archive” on his channel, where you can find all the VODs of his streams. It’s always been there, he just doesn’t want to flood people’s inbox so there’s no notifications. But yeah there you go.

[@Kyleeliasdonovan]

@@ensuuu. nice, I will be making good use of that. Thanks!

[@kennynakawaki]

Omg Werster is still making videos?! 🤣 it’s been years!

[@Rafael_Oiticica]

In your case, Werster, and in the top comment, both had a paralyzed Pokémon with -1 Speed. I think I saw somewhere saying that in Gen I when you do that your speed kinda glitch ans become +0 again in the code. May be the same case in Gen 2/Stadium? This is really interesting. As soon as I saw Blissey attacking after, I thought "she must have used Counter", but then Flareon came and used Fire Blast... Wth

[@abadstoryends]

Aerodactyl Hidden Ability Contrary confimed

[@sagacious03]

Lol, the AI undermining its own tactics. Or its own luck, I suppose. Either way, fun video! Thanks so much for uploading!

[@tarow1369]

Wtf has just happened? 🤣🤣🤣

[@Mupwumg]

Completely forgot that the black box in the top right was a webcam lmao

[@NebuchadnezzarAquaticus]

Icy Tailwind

[@orktv4673]

So what's the logic behind the capitalized letters in the Pokémon names? They're clearly not indicating emphasis.

[@NexTJesS]

Top Percentage Aerodactyl !

[@mariotaz]

Icy you lose

[@maridiancrest243]

Only pokemon can be so unfair sometimes that it turns into fair Werster probably would have lost that one or it would have been close

[@cervgiovanni]

Hated Aerodactyls speed. Gen 3, Lance had one, and I was using a trash team. His rock slide would kill me

[@BreakTheIce222]

Blissey outsped after Para but not after Icy Wind?

[@DarkPikachuYTV]

Victory bell would be best for electatord

[@Exchequer12]

Blissey maybe Used Counter?

[@pantamy]

Missed opportunity the title of "I See Win" just kidding

[@Erassus]

This reminds to similar behavior occurred in tpp anniversary, when Magikarp gets 1hp tackle damage from Starmie with burn status. (After a Kakune uses Harden every turn) kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6Grd2OQqsRnes0

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

That's because every use of harden caused the game to calculate the attack drop from burn again until its attack became 1.

[@kenshiro8984]

*Aerodactyl outspeeds Blissey* First I thought Stadium 2 put a Quick Claw on Aerodactyl, then Werster confirmed that wasn't it Then I thought Blissey clicked Counter for no reason But then Aerodactyl outsped Flareon and I took a while thinking whether it did overwrite the speed stat, but I thought that only happened in Stadium 1 lol The additional funny thing is that Blissey's AI only used Icy Wind because the AI *knew* Thunder would miss, so it used a move that would hit. The AI lost because of its cheating tactics lmao

[@gradeabrandon186]

Aliens

[@frankietafuro530]

WTF how were you going first dude I wouldn't complain

[@gododoof]

It was so surreal seeing this happen live.

[@dylanbuchanan6511]

Pokemon Stadium sprites>Pokemon anime designs

[@bungusmcchungus]

amazing

[@aidanhennessey5586]

I’m so confused

[@StikWitFlips]

Make that two...... Wtf!? 😂

[@sosams]

First, I thought Blissey used Counter, since decreased priority moves go last no matter the rival's speed. Then when I saw that Aerodactyl still outsped Flareon, the only explanation I had is that, in Stadium 2, when a pokemon gets paralyzed its Speed stat automatically equals to 0, and a subsequent speed drop rerolls back to 999, so that's why Aerodactyl was obviously faster. FSG explains this briefly in his Marowak video. Marowak reaches 999 attack at +2 (a single Swords Dance) and Thick Club. If Marowak uses Swords Dance twice, it forces the reroll, so its Attack would be very low.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

That's a different story though, where the game uses a modulo function and can't really deal with values over 1023. Having 1023 attack still works fine, but anything higher has 1024 subtracted, so 1025 becomes 1, 1026 becomes 2 and so on. An underflow isn't really possible though since values are always divided and rounded up, so even with 1 speed a drop would just leave you at 1 speed.

[@sephikong8323]

No the real reason is that there was a bug in gen 1 where if you got paralyzed and then got a stat change in speed, the original value is used to calculate the new value without taking the paralysis into account Basically to give an example with a Pokemon with 100 Speed, with Paralysis, it would go to 25 speed, but if then gets a stat drop of one stage (such as with Icy Wind(, it goes to 75 speed andif it uses Agility, it goes to 200. Normally this bug (like a ton of other bugs) was fixed in gen 2, but I guess Stadium 2 didn't fix it for some reason

[@danielametal8101]

What?

[@PlusmaGun]

Knocked Out Cold? Live To Win-d? An Icy EmiK. O.? The possibilities are endless.

[@palikaras123]

i bet icy wind dropped u below 0 so it became 999 speed lol

[@StickThisUpYourAnus]

You are so wrong lmao

[@pwoswald]

I'm so early what do I say I just took a big poo

[@TheGuyCalledNotorious]

inb4 "first"

[@JMittenkit]

First!

[@StickThisUpYourAnus]

So zeroth?

[@BlooperTanooki]

I have a theory Maybe that Blissey had a low priority move. I'd say Counter. The AI realized Aerodactyl was focusing on physical attacks and decided to use Counter last second.

[@Matimatician1]

he also outsped flareon's fire blast. that theory doesn't work.

[@Zzzlol94]

No that’s not the reason because Flareon got outsped while using Fire Blast

[@Zamamikol]

This actually seems like the most plausible. Edit: This still does not explain flareon though.

[@BeastTamerLynn]

Yeah but, then Flareon used Fire Blast and Aerodactyl still attacked first-

[@crackedfrost]

Gameshark exposed.

[@almightykeys4734]

Wait.....i've seen this before....your speed must have been lowered at auch a fast rate, it broke the game. your speed must have got flipped.

[@GundamDragonLord]

You must be new to Aerodactyl, it has a base speed of 130, Blissey's Speed stat is 55. Flareon has the base speed of 55. So even with Paralyze and Icy Wind's dropping Aerodactyl's Speed stat. Arepdactyl is still faster than both.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

No, when paralyzed it was slower than Blissey. Paralysis quarters speed, making it much much slower than both of them. On level 50 a max IV Aero has 150 speed, Blissey has 80 and Flareon has 85.

[@GundamDragonLord]

@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 No, IVs and EVs did exist back then, but just in a different way than they are now. IVs only went up to 15, you could get 255 EVs in every stat, and gaining EVs was different. It was like that in the 1st gen, too. The IV and EV system as we know it now was introduced in gen 3.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

@@GundamDragonLord that's exactly what I calculated. With max IV and no EV a level 50 Aerodactyl has a speed of exactly 150. Also as you can see in the video, Aerodactyl gets outsped by Blissey after being paralyzed. Only after Icy Wind Aerodactyl is faster again. Which is the point of the video.

[@dylanbuchanan6511]

He keeps being surprised at being able to outspeed with the speed drop but aerodactyl’s speed is 130…as high as Mewtwo. So yeah…it being able to outspeed with just ONE reduction is realistic.

[@LMPL1993]

He was slower than Blissey after the paralysis. This is shown when Blissey outspeeds and uses icy wind, which causes the glitch.

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

Paralysis AND speed drop. The paralysis alone was enough to make Aero slower than Blissey, so without the glitch it would've been much much slower.

[@nathanialthomas6889]

Title makes no sense as always

[@AwesomeHairo]

Underflow?