Western Lefties SUCK At Foreign Policy | Taiwan Recap

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[@frogger1674]

As someone with Taiwanese family its honestly disheartening to see those whom appear to oppose the opression of the indeginous of the americas and beyond, especially when I'm Indeginous myself, betray such ideals when it comes to Ukraine and Taiwan. Its sad to see people fight for me but abandon my sister and her family as if Taiwan doesnt deserve to have self determination (all of my siblings are half siblings fyi)

[@eminkirac4712]

Man up

[@SkullPrism]

Is Taiwan's govt. run by the indigenous population?

[@lukajolich7669]

@@SkullPrism I mean, they aren't, but treatment towards the indigenous people there is much better than it was before and is certainly better than what they would get under the Chinese who still practice the old Han Chinese use of genocide and ethnic cleansing on minorities (Han Chinese didn't become the most populous group in China through peace, it did so by conquering others and forcing their culture and peoples onto them).

[@SkullPrism]

@@lukajolich7669 Im not arguing for China to take over. I think using "self-determination" for Taiwan to not mean their indigenous population is giga cringe.

[@arlaux1099]

@@lukajolich7669 People literally treat the Taiwanese government as if it’s doing a hodomor ever second it’s crazy, they still believe rhe White Terror is currently going on. They’ll praise China for being forward and good despite its treatment of various indigenous populations being awful rn but then say Taiwan is bad because in the past the KMT was awful even though as far as I know now the treatment of the native population has been getting a lot better and there are even government aided cultural festivals, which you don’t see for minority groups in like most countries.

[@Nuvizzle]

Love when authoritarian states are like "you are threatening our peace and stability by acknowledging the existence of the people we're trying to oppress"

[@gabriellegoodwin4422]

The moral necessity of calling authoritarian states emotionally abusive girlfriends

[@sorzin2289]

You do realize that Taiwan itself is an authoritarian state formed by Chang Kai Shek who fled to the island after losing the Chinese civil war. Who brutally repressed the local population and which the island was under the longest period of Martial Law. Not only that but until recently both the People's Rebublic of China and Taiwan both claim to be the legitimate government of all of China.

[@larshofler8298]

Except China is not oppressing Taiwan, China is not occupying Taiwan (despite the fact many of you are horny about it), while the Left's criticism of the US is based on *existing facts* . China has not waged a single war in more than 30 years, and it looks like the only country that wants China to break that pacifist stance is the United States. Also, if you have any leftism in you, you would acknowledge the extent to which Taiwan is directly responsible for the rise of Chinese capitalism, and its ownership of slave labour factories in China, like Foxconn. Good God, you folks are soooooo delusional and pathetic. Only shitlibs would say things like "authoritarian this authoritarian that", guess what, I'm for Stalin and Pol Pot.

[@etqz680]

Focusing solely on how bad the US is is a form of American exceptionalism.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

Any movement will have people who react on their vibe and history of advocacy instead of the current situation. Leftist have been anti american war for so long any conflict they see that the us funds is by default bad. They see a pattern and find facts to support their feelings around that pattern they see

[@acetorres8787]

Grammar

[@lostonearth7856]

Well I guess yeah as America was founded on a set of republican ideals which includes the right to shit on your own country.

[@jabrokneetoeknee6448]

But the US IS exceptionally “bad.” Millions have died as a direct result of US foreign policy after WWII. Few other nations can claim the same. And let’s not forget that the US is playing on both sides, without taking a firm stance on the Chinese-Taiwan conflict. There is nothing heroic about the US’ position

[@fulcrum2951]

@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 and how does that cause the PRC and Russia to behave currently?

[@devindoherty8728]

I have no idea how people can say they support Indigenous people's of North America and call for land back, but also defend Russia and China

[@zyanego3170]

That's campism for ya.

[@danielshepard1449]

Not wanting to turn Taiwan or Ukraine into US proxy military bases is not "defending Russia and China"

[@narikobeilschmidt]

all fax, no printer involved

[@jaceymartin4739]

B.I.N.G.O! You nailed it! I have to step back from Twitter. I noticed many with black flags and Palestinian flags cheering Russia as well

[@frostbite3318]

The edgy “anti imperialism” takes I’ve seen on Twitter are both hilarious and depressing

[@danielshepard1449]

Not as bad as the pro imperialist takes of "What's wrong with turning Taiwan into Ukraine 2.0 bro?"

[@Nuvizzle]

@@danielshepard1449 What you appear to be saying here is that just having a politician visit Taiwan will be enough to cause China to invade and occupy them, and at the same time somehow that makes opposing China pro-imperialist.

[@aethelredtheready1739]

America “acknowledges” that China has the one china policy, but it has not accepted it or taken it as its own policy. And the reason that PRC doesn’t have any cultural artifacts left is because Mao destroyed them all… so whose fault is that then.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

That just isnt true, unpon the introduction of china to the world trade organisation america sponsered them and the ccp's only condition to be accepted was the one china policy. The us publicly announced its support of the one china policy. America of course funded and hedged their bets through money and tensions towards china's continous border expansion and civil rights abuse

[@Dave102693]

Tankies and tankie-brained leftists won't accept that it is just facts.

[@theduncandonut7576]

We need a democrat who acts like trump acted towards china

[@fulcrum2951]

The USA somehow according to a certain significant amount of lefties

[@aethelredtheready1739]

@@theduncandonut7576 what you need is a 40 year old Bernie that acts like trump towards china

[@CultureStress]

me, who took a course on modern East Asian History, about to hear Voosh talk about the history of Taiwan: this is going to be emotionally difficult

[@CultureStress]

actually, it was totally fine. sorry for doubting you

[@wilhelmkreis6578]

@@CultureStress the good ending

[@IMelkor42]

Except for the bit where he said Chaiwan

[@willowwright4638]

@@IMelkor42 calling it that cause Taiwan is the real one china

[@Kain59242]

We must stand with Ukraine and we must be prepared to stand with Taiwan.

[@danielshepard1449]

Typical western neocon rhetoric. Maybe China and Russia should start "standing with" Puerto Rican and Hawaiian independence movements and see how the US reacts?

[@bootmii98]

I'm of two minds on Taiwan. On the one hand, I'll miss them and romanticize them as "more communist" or whatever. On the other hand, I recognize that this is a necessary step toward something greater and better, and I'll be hopeful about what the PRC does next.

[@paxxielart]

In Taiwan there is a social distinction between people who originate from the civil war exodus and those who were on the island before then. My family had been there for 300 years apparently my grandparents remembered Japanese rule.

[@MrGksarathy]

I've heard this from a Taiwanese friend of mine. Apparently most of the civil war people are basically the Kuomintang elite.

[@thomthebomb9497]

I have heard that Japanese occupation of Taiwan wasn’t as bad as other places (Burma/China/Indonesia etc) is that true?

[@larshofler8298]

Who cares? "My family had been there for 300 years", meanwhile indigenous Taiwanese have been there for 10,000 years. You are just as Chinese as other Chinese. You are a colonizer of our peoples.

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

​@@thomthebomb9497 pretty low bar either way

[@heiskanbuscadordelaverdad8709]

​@@thomthebomb9497I mean it was still horrible and brutal but the Japanese invested a lot in Taiwan creating a strong industrial base and developing the island, the Japanese also did a lot of atrocities like genociding the indigenous population and a lot of rapes and brutal occupation.

[@runagaterampant]

Yes but have you considered America bad. You can't talk about other countries without making it about America.

[@scrtwpnx]

True and based. Unlike vaush

[@danielshepard1449]

Have you considered that "China bad" is not a valid justification for expanding US imperialism?

[@veritasabsoluta4285]

@@danielshepard1449 lol...

[@gwelwynn]

I love when chat teaches vaush the correct pronunciation of fairly common words

[@ezhanyan]

this is a sign of a well-read man who learns most of his info from reading

[@MrHistory269]

Geyrald Ford is still my favorite of his mispronounced words

[@teasystem7264]

“hey vilsh, it’s pronounced “GAY-MER” not “JAH-MEER””

[@_.violyse._]

@@ezhanyan why read Marx when you can just read chat

[@BeakerButch420]

@@ezhanyan books don't pronounce words

[@DrHotWarLove]

My thoughts on Corbyn: losing the 2019 election, leadership of the Labour Party, getting wailed on by the tabloid press, and getting temporarily suspended from the party made him go Joker Mode.

[@jascu4251]

I don't think this is the case. Corbyn has always been naive on foreign policy. This aspect to him was always there, but in 2017 (and for that matter 2019) foreign policy wasn't as much of a factor as it is in 2022 and people were able to overlook it. Also the overwrought and ridiculous tabloid criticism over nonsense kind of obscured valid criticism that appeared like it was coming from the same source. Being right about Iraq helped him a lot too

[@underthedice1231]

@@jascu4251 When your attacked yourself in such ridiculous fashion it becomes easy to loss track of what's real and what's propaganda when it's directed at other people. Defaulting to first principles is a natural reaction to not knowing what's true. If your polity philosophy's is corporatist (Aristotlien) or liberal, your first principles takes of international politics are very likely to be either blood and soil or overly weak appeasement respectively. Populism isn't garentied to have good first principle takes but by my experience the default takes have a better chance of not being horrible.

[@underthedice1231]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! It's understandable. The flaw is assuming that your government is unique in that manner.

[@mc-ps-playa5569]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! “DEBATE ME BRO DEBATE ME BRO DEBATE ME BRO!!!”

[@mc-ps-playa5569]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! Also 100 comments on a 6 day old account, lmao

[@jacobwumbo827]

War can only be justified under the most extreme circumstances. “We think we own the country and it’s people” is not a justification. If polling indicated that 70% of Taiwanese wanted to be part of PRC and the government of Taiwan was keeping them separate to loot the island, you may have justification. Ultimately the Chinese obsession with controlling Taiwan stems from their nationalistic self image of being an ubermensch that have been a single, unbroken nation since the dawn of civilization. Taiwan, in addition to obviously being a poke in the eye of the communist party of China, undoes this self image, which I think is much more effective propaganda than people outside the country recognize. More than a national myth, it’s an existential myth.

[@erickschusterdeoliveira2662]

the idea of China being an unbroken nation since forever is hilariously laughable lmao

[@MrGksarathy]

@@erickschusterdeoliveira2662 Again, that's why it's a myth. Also, the idea of a unified China that has existed from the Han Dynasty is built on genocide after genocide.

[@mysticonthehill]

Unfortunately China has been destroying peoples to maintain that illusion since the dawn of time. I would need to check it but the first self reported in history what the Chinese government which killed people based on their faces. ie looking different

[@BlackEpyon]

They're just butthurt that they never got to take the island in 1949.

[@danielshepard1449]

This is all irrelevant, nationalists in China wanting to control Taiwan is no different than the Nationalists in the US who want to control Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, etc. The PROBLEM is that the US supporting separatist movements and selling arms to create proxy militias is NOT a solution to this problem, any more than China and Russia selling arms to Puerto Rican separatist movements would be good solution to American imperialism. Expanding American hegemony is not a solution to Chinese or Russian hegemony, like Vaush pretends it is.

[@BigHoss03]

Corbyn actually warned against Putin from the start over 20 years ago. It was Tony Blair and British intelligence that supported Putin before the 2000 elections despite his involvement in the brutal second Chechen war. Feel like that should be pointed out.

[@TealJosh]

What on earth does "imperial interest" mean. Just say foreign policy interest. Imperialism is under the umbrella of foreign policy, but is too specific term to use everywhere, like lefties often do.

[@lordlubu3029]

To many lefties unfortunately the terms "foreign policy" and "imperialism" are interchangeable when discussing the US lol

[@Saktoth]

The US wishes to maintain its status as the sole global superpower and hegemon in the pacific. Taiwan, Japan, Korea and the Phillipines are the key allies in the area to help contain Chinas own imperial ambitions, with Taiwan being the closest and historically most important. That's the imperial interest. We could say 'Oh, no these are all just sovereign states' but they are all under the US's umbrella of military protection. But it's either one empire or the other and if we compare like North and South Korea you can see which hegemon is better to be under.

[@danielshepard1449]

It means that the US wants to replace Chinese spheres of influence with American spheres of influence. That's called imperialism.

[@atlantiswolf]

I REALLY want as a follow up, for a Japanese Ambassador to go to Taiwan and publicly apologize on behalf of his nation, the great injustices done to their people during the second world war. But Just to Taiwan.

[@friedipar]

That would require Japan to acknowledge their crimes during the 20th century in the first place...

[@ArgieGrit]

Denying fascist war crimes to own the tankies

[@atlantiswolf]

@@ArgieGrit Apologizing to Taiwan for the war crimes just to piss off an unhinged authoritarian government.

[@atlantiswolf]

@@friedipar Yes.

[@ArgieGrit]

@@atlantiswolf Whatever helps you sleep at night

[@jasonjasso666]

To be fair, I’ve always considered Taiwan it’s own country separate from China. Nice to know I was unknowingly right.

[@acetorres8787]

You be wrong

[@PropheticShadeZ]

Yea, its just obvious if you look at this situation in isolation. I may think china's economic growth over the last 50 years should be examined in every economics class on the planet to not be laughed out of the room. But their authoritarian gov is and always will be a huge problem, they are liable to directly attack and abuse their own people and others.

[@Dave102693]

Same

[@pennamebear]

@@acetorres8787 alright west taiwan.

[@wilhelmkreis6578]

Bc it is

[@alexpkeaton4471]

Speaker Pelosi: "...our commitment to freedom and democracy." Afghanistan: :(

[@danielshepard1449]

Iraq, Haiti, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Iran, throw a dart at a map and the US undermined democracy there.

[@vogelvogeltje]

😂😂😂 Vaush has a dedicated triggered KZbin troll, must be doing something right.

[@mc-ps-playa5569]

He has several lmao

[@MrGksarathy]

@@mc-ps-playa5569 Russian Waifu trolls all of Breadtube.

[@BackwardsPancake]

@@MrGksarathy Well that one is very distinctive and predictable, so these days they mostly post some Russian media cope and then get deleted immediately, which is barely trolling.

[@kain6996]

He’s got an entire farm or bot trolls on both channels

[@kain6996]

@@BackwardsPancake don’t forget the one that always posts “Maupin > vaush” on every single video

[@Ar1AnX1x]

it's always mind boggling to me how people have to take a side on anything and everything they don't understand and be so opinionated about it so many people don't understand Geopolitics, before the war I had no idea about the situation with Ukraine and Russia and didn't even know they had a revolution in 2014, so it took a long time until I started having opinions and took a side, meanwhile I saw people who know even less than me on this issue and already were so opinionated, I never understand people like this(which most people are sadly like this somehow).

[@MPostma72]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! Whereas you, on an account not 7 days old, know everything, right?

[@arlaux1099]

@@MPostma72 I mean they probably have a side account where they talk about how trans people bad and touching kids is based, Matt Walsh types

[@delos2279]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! "But due to the Dunning-Kruger effect neither he nor you are mentally aware of your own ignorance of the subject matter." Dunning-Kruger accusations with no argument is peak Dunning-Kruger.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! Okay VDS'r.

[@estebandelasexface8193]

I agree in principle that it's good for people to get more informed views on things before spouting opinions. That said, that's a terrible example to use. I think when a country is openly invading another country or subjugating a subset of people, the burden of proof is both very high and squarely with the invading country. The default 'neutral' position in situations like that should be against invasion, surely.

[@ScarlettR61]

I hate anti-revisionists, but they were on to something with accusing China of social-imperialism.

[@zyanego3170]

Based.

[@Blueberry_Koi]

as someone from mainland, my opinion is just taiwan should be a country. the peoplke seem to would be a lot more happy and enjoy morwe rightsa when it is

[@TheBigEvil]

I think I watched it live but at this point my brain is mush so let's go again.

[@_.violyse._]

most relatable thing I've seen today

[@seththeawesome3366]

God so true

[@isabelmcgaugh711]

That’s like half of the vaush videos I watch. “This seems familiar but eh”

[@danb.755]

As someone who has family in Ukraine, I find Leftist foreign policy takes so horrendous that I’d go so far as to say that I prefer hawks like Bush and Cheney

[@pinkmail6841]

lets not get to far now

[@spaghettimon3851]

God bless Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics! 🇨🇺❤⬛🟦🟥🆓️🟦🟥

[@BlackEpyon]

When it comes to social issues, I find myself very much on the left. Not when it comes to foreign policy though, especially lately.

[@BlackEpyon]

​@@spaghettimon3851 Russian puppets.

[@Tacklepig]

Why? None of the people supporting russia are actually leftists. None of the """"anti-imperialists"""" are.

[@Empyre18]

Completely agree that the Western left definitely suffers from having an unsophisticated set of foreign policy prescriptions. The left knows what it hates about international relations, but unlike with domestic policy (where we have pretty clear and precise blueprints about what we’d like to build to replace the current system), leftists really struggle to articulate what they actually, positively want. Would like to see more discussion of what a sophisticated leftist foreign policy framework should look like.

[@danielshepard1449]

It's pretty simple, what leftists want is simply to not support and provide arms to nationalist/separatist movements in Taiwan to weaken China. You know, like 99% of countries who aren't the US are already doing. If you are a leftist, you should know how that always works out throughout history and how it expands US imperialism and causes wars.

[@Empyre18]

@@danielshepard1449 So according to you, leftists want to stop helping democratic Taiwan defend itself from being forcibly, violently conquered by totalitarian People’s Republic of China, who are nurturing a claim to Taiwanese land born out of a sense that the island belongs to them whether the people who actually live there like it or not. And this is somehow “anti-imperialism.” Gotcha. Brilliant.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@Empyre18 Correct, not expanding imperialism is the first step to being anti imperialism. Turning Taiwan into a militarized satellite state and filling it with proxy US forces to weaken China is very obviously imperialism. Taiwan doesn't want to become a US military base, according to polling data, they mostly want to maintain the status quo they already have with China. But as a typical American, you think Taiwanese people are just begging for your to come save them with bombs because that's what you heard from your own state's propaganda machine. How did that work out in Ukraine, Iran, Afghanistan, Nicaragua or anywhere else where the US has funded nationalist groups to weaken a government they don't like?

[@Empyre18]

@@danielshepard1449 Nah, I’m pretty sure the first step toward being anti-imperialist is not threatening to conquer places, like China constantly threatens to do to Taiwan. You also mention Ukraine. You know, I think something else imperialism-related is going on there. Can’t put my finger on it, but I don’t think US involvement is the only thing going on…

[@danielshepard1449]

​@@Empyre18 Yes or like the US has already done to Puerto Rico, Texas, California, Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, etc. etc. I live in America, so I'm more worried about what actions my country can take to limit imperialism. Not turning Ukraine and Taiwan into militarized satellite states to weaken geopolitical enemies means there is less imperialism in the world than if the US does do those things. Also less chance of conflict and nuclear war. How do you think the US would react if Russia and China started arming and supporting separatist movements in Puerto Rico?

[@cruznix4741]

This comes purely from other people I know in that life. But I’ve been lead to believe The difficulty with the island invasion is that it requires amphibious landing and or parachutes to get in. Additionally any landing would be a gigantic funnel.

[@iz2333]

I think Vaush's PM take is pretty bad. Boris Johnson has caused real harm and he was PM throughout the entirety of the pandemic. To argue that Corbyn could've been as bad you'd have to completely ignore all the damage Johnson caused to the people he actually governs. Right now Corbyn *speaks* for Corbyn but as PM he'd be *acting* for his government. I highly doubt that the UK would just support russia in this conflict because of him.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

Counterpoint, how much of the US supports Russia purely because an ex-president does?

[@sambryce321]

In addition, both of the new PM candidates are proposing some really insane anti-democratic policiesz

[@Cream147player]

100% accurate. Corbyn would have found it untenable to not support Ukraine as PM because to do so would fly directly in the face of the parliamentary party, the establishment, and the people of the country. You can oppose one or two of those but all three at the same time is likely to see you ousted as PM. Meanwhile Vaush obviously has no respect for the damage that Boris is doing domestically (and Liz Truss will continue to do or even make a whole lot worse based on what she’s saying) - and this isn’t like Democrats vs Republicans, there is a huge gulf between the domestic policy Corbyn would have delivered and what the Conservatives are delivering.

[@iz2333]

@@zacheryeckard3051 I don't see the point, the US isn't supporting russia in this conflict either.

[@MPostma72]

Corbyn did plenty of damage by not having Labour take a pro EU stance in the last election, putting himself before what was best for the country.

[@-Sparagmos-]

25:07 has Vaush even played Mass Effect? Lol That was almost identical to Sovereign

[@Sugarman96]

I don't doubt that it was intentional.

[@Nesher92]

Hold on, a correction about your understanding of the "unfinished civil war" business: Taiwan and its People *never* took part in the chinese Civil War. It was exclusively a Chinese issue of Chinese people in China. The claim that the Taiwan-China conflict is unfinished civil war it's false.

[@Nuvizzle]

Also almost everyone who fought in the Chinese civil war is dead by now considering that most of the fighting took place before WW2. It's wild to think China's official policy is that a war started several generations ago is still ongoing.

[@sherlocksmuuug6692]

Japanese holdout, 29 years after WW2: "I'm the most delusional jingoist there is." "Amateur." Japanese holdout: "Nani?!" The PRC, 70 years after the last territorial changes of the 'ongoing' civil war: "AMATEUR."

[@Nesher92]

@@donovan4222 lmao Taiwan was colonized, though not completely, by southern Chinese people in the 18th century. And European powers before that. Go back to kindergarten

[@Nesher92]

@@donovan4222 nothing you said is accurate 🤡

[@Nesher92]

@@donovan4222 they tried to re-colonize it since '46...

[@thebigsida6645]

Hasan was DOING IT AGAIN.

[@SuperpowerBroadcasting]

Losers stand with Xi. LEGENDS stand with Tsai.

[@BlackEpyon]

I just keep finding more and more reasons to despise Nixon.

[@carl8790]

Don't forget Reagan

[@davidperin9938]

Honestly Nixon wasn't great, but he was more realistic than Reagan's America is god's gift to humanity.

[@Turbostarguy97]

Thank you for your work on this topic, Vaush. The left needs to stand with Taiwan, as despite not being perfect, it best represents our values in this conflict. I should also add that the PRC would hold live fire exercises whenever Taiwan holds elections and when they transitioned into a democracy. So flipping out over a dignitary visit isn’t the least bit surprising to me.

[@seigoed88]

China follows the “One China *Principle* “ America follows the “One China *Policy* “ There is a legal difference between the two.

[@keyboardoracle1044]

You forgot the bit where the US parked it’s navy between Mainland Chain and Taiwan. Stopping Moa Zadong from taking Hawaii…. I mean the rest of their country. Pretty sure the Chinese Navy at this point was 3 bamboo boats and some guy who could swim.

[@danielshepard1449]

America was just spreading democracy bro

[@keyboardoracle1044]

Only problem is you need democracy before you can spread it……..

[@Baffon100]

Russia might just be the hill Chomsky's willing to literally die on lol.

[@danielshepard1449]

Chomsky has had the exact same take for about 30 years now on Russia/NATO expansion, and every other state the US tries to intervene with. Only thing he's going to die on is his bed from old age.

[@Tacklepig]

He had to choose one pretty soon, or he's gonna die on no hill at all

[@1draigon]

I love how it was borandy that asked how corbin is worse in this case

[@Eibarwoman]

A more interventionist foreign policy is also why North Korea and Iran have pursued nuclear weapons at various times. So did Apartheid South Africa come to think of it which only gets to the bigger elephant in the room. The US type aggressive foreign policy results in more nuclear proliferation.

[@danielshepard1449]

I remember when lefties unanimously agreed "we have to take over the world for human rights and preventing nukes bro" was a bad justification for US imperialism.

[@originalhgc]

Cache, not to be confused with cachet, not to be confused with cachë

[@aspacelex]

Ukraine and Taiwan aren't analogous situations: Ukraine has had to deal with Russia's imperialistic aggression for half a millennium always rejecting the blood and soil logic used to justify it, however with Taiwan the US has intentionally allied itself, often through force and coups, with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Guam, fully surrounding China's coastline and gaining the ability to cut off its sea access, which would be devastating to the world's factory. China is wrong to threaten war and Taiwan should remain independent but the onus is on the US to find a way to end this imperialist project while ensuring Taiwan's safety.

[@arlaux1099]

I can assure you considering the history of every single place you mentioned even if america didn’t use force they’d support america over China, unless I’m mistaken in thinking the relationships between these groups haven’t always been really bad. Maybe in your faux history Japan really likes China but uh… that’s never been the case and I’m not sure it ever will be, lotta bad blood there.

[@ashokrohan7232]

Dude I'm from Malaysia please stop lying about my country. WE are the ones being bullied by China, NOT the other way round as you claim.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! Jesus christ. How does that boot leather taste?

[@mathiasbartl903]

Yes like when the US forcibly overthrew the government of the Empire of Japan.

[@yaboye3791]

@Vaush's "Arguments" LOL! Ukraine existed since medival times when Rurik Romanovich created the kingdom circa 9th centrury AD Whose dynasty later ruled Russia btw Eat gravel and cope

[@friedipar]

One could also argue that the ROC preemtively saved the cuklural artifacts from destruction during the cultural revolution...

[@tylerhackner9731]

Western lefties basically tankies

[@miketemple876]

It does feel that way sometimes

[@kx7500]

Tankies are all over the place. Plenty of anarchists in the west

[@The_Poro_King]

Yes and they need to be kick out of the left

[@jascu4251]

I'm not sure. I think one of two things are true 1) KZbin comments etc aren't representative of the wider left, and niche figures appear to have more reach than is actually the case 2) The wider left IS broadly sympathetic to Putin and to dictators in general If 2 is the case, this is extremely damaging for social democracy. Although that being said, I think across the political spectrum the appeal of autocracy is rising so who knows.

[@WhenToastersAttack]

Taught my dad about tankies last night. He was mortified that people like that exist.

[@jbka3406]

Finally someone said it!!!

[@presidenttogekiss635]

Fun fact, Pacific Island people actually originated in Taiwan.

[@yanenn2151]

Muh America Bad 🤪. Only america can be bad. Im a lefty 🙃

[@The_Poro_King]

As long you're not pro russia or china

[@ashokrohan7232]

hasanabi in a nutshell lol

[@Katharoni]

The prequel to the Borandy insanity

[@iz2333]

OH LAWD SHE COMIN' - The entire chinese state rn

[@mememachine6022]

vaush the communists didnt fight the japanese. The communists activly avoided fighting japan to have the kuomintang weakened so they could beat thm easier

[@stormyprawn]

Part truth, part falsehood. Yes, a huge reason why the communists came out on top post-war was because the ROC took the brunt of the Japanese forces on. And the communists definitely avoided a lot of the fighting. However, I encourage you to look up the hundred regiments offensive. They did contribute meaningfully to the war effort.

[@mememachine6022]

@@stormyprawn the hundreds regiments offensive was a pr move. Its effect was hugely overplayed by cprs propaganda machine

[@spaghettimon3851]

@@mememachine6022 Long live Chairman Mao Zeodong and the People's Liberation Army! 🇨🇺❤🇨🇳 ☭

[@Dave102693]

@@mememachine6022 This

[@mysticonthehill]

Lets not forget that soviet russia was also actively helping the Communist occupy territories formerly held by the Japanese as well as providing captured war materials.

[@calebeyl141]

How has he made it through life without knowing how to pronounce cache.

[@LegendLeaguer]

Caché is also a word

[@uxnosidda]

Hasanabi Moments just uploaded a video titled "Why Does America Want War With China? | Hasanabi Reacts" smh

[@joe-xs7wr]

His going to take LS on this like he did on Russia

[@badrhetoric5637]

The thing to remember is : Taiwan is not a part of China nor a separate nation. Explanation : It is one nation, with two separate governments laying claim to all of China. Look at the history after the fall of the Qing dynasty, follow through WW2, the war between Communist China and Democratic China to now. You can say Taiwan and China are one, but you can also argue that it is a separate nation. My take, ask the people of Taiwan what they want.

[@KM-jf6bn]

Increasingly the Taiwanese people agree that they have essentially developed a new nation, due to their 70 years of separate rule.

[@badrhetoric5637]

@@danielshepard1449 no that is utterly wrong. The president of Taiwan does not take orders from mainland China. You are just factually wrong.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@badrhetoric5637 Yes he does. Taiwan is a territory of China. It's an autonomous government within China, just like Puerto Rico, Guam and American Samoa. Do you think those places aren't part of the US because they have their own governments?

[@badrhetoric5637]

@@danielshepard1449 it has historically been a part of Chinese dynasties, and the CCCP consider it theirs, but the Taiwanese government, and the people, make their own decisions. "territory of China" is doing a lot of the insinuation there isn't it. They don't take their orders from the big Xhi. Nor the mainland government. These are two different governments that have technically never signed a peace treaty after their war. Your incipid comparison to us states and vassals is simply irrelevant. Can you give me an example of a policy, law, or any order The mainland president has given to Taiwan, that Taiwan has obeyed? Also those US territories aren't that autonomous... If the mainland president is in charge, why have they been threatening invasion for 70 years? Or this fuss now even!? Such American reductivism. DUH ITS PART OF CHINA THAT MEANS ITS China. Just go to Taiwan.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@badrhetoric5637 They make their own decisions within what the Chinese allow them to. The same way Puerto Rico and Guam and American Samoa make their own decisions. If you don't know what a "territory" is then I can't help you. Yes they do take orders from Xi, like there order that they can't separate from China. If they didn't follow that order, there would be a war with China. I'm not comparing them to US states, I'm comparing them to US territories that have their own governments subservient to the federal US government. The same thing Taiwan has, because Taiwan is a Chinese territory. Do you even know what a territory is?

[@midwesternilluminati3951]

I used to say Jimmy Dore was the Michele bianchi but it’s actually the entire online left

[@anthonymontague756]

So damn common. One group I'm still trying in is constantly posting just random anti-Ukraine stuff.

[@jonasu5596]

While I agree with pretty much everything Voosh said here. Mao didn´t actually fought that much against the japanese. He hid his forces in the countryside and attacked after the chinese republicans were roughed up after the japanese left. Smart move.

[@badrhetoric5637]

To say the DRC stole wealth and items isn't really fair, they viewed those treasures as theirs. They also wanted to protect those relics as the CPC was destroying a great deal of the old relics. The usual out with the old sort of attitude

[@JohnnyYK]

Got a source the CPC was destroying relics or were they taking the nations treasury to not have it seized by the workers?

[@badrhetoric5637]

@@JohnnyYK it was the cultural revolution.... You can literally look it up.

[@JohnnyYK]

@@badrhetoric5637 Care to point to a specific example though. You said they did x so can you prove they did x by given me a source?

[@SuperpowerBroadcasting]

5:19 Vaush is objectively correct about this.

[@85percentnation]

It *should* be pronounced "cashay", but the English language butchered the original French pronounciation. I'm still gonna pronounce it "cashay" despite what people tell me.

[@badrhetoric5637]

If only Dr Sun Yat Sen had lived, he may have unified all the Chinese States.

[@zyanego3170]

He tried but failed.

[@badrhetoric5637]

@@zyanego3170 well he managed to broker a fragile peace the communists and others. But he died young so what if scenarios don't matter.

[@Luigi_Mario_1997]

9:08 I bursted out laughing at that bit!

[@Shadowcam00]

Taiwan isn't just a refuge for the previous political lineage of China; it's a refuge for the traditional culture that was wiped out on the mainland when Mao and his communist party launched a cultural genocide against their own people. Mao killed anthropologists, artists, historians, and intellectuals of all types, as well as destroying their works and cultural artifacts, all for the sake of enacting his Soviet-simping vision of a bland, homogenous feudal state. Taiwan is where you actually find Chinese culture as it evolved without communist butchering.

[@MrGksarathy]

Not to mention, native Taiwanese culture exists as well.

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

But America bad!

[@Dave102693]

That's so sad honestly.

[@mysticonthehill]

Best comment. So many people look to the PRC when in fact in is a husk of what Chinese cultural was.

[@danielshepard1449]

That's the prager U version of the story, what you left out is Chiang Kai-Shek and his Chinese nationalist party fled to Taiwan and operated as a government in exile. They weren't just "a refuge for previous political lineage" they proclaimed themselves the legitimate government of all of China. Chiang Kai-Shek was as bad, if not worse than Mao in his treatment of dissidents. His nationalist government is estimated to have killed something like 18 million people, thousands of "communist sympathizers" were killed in his Shangai Massacre and many more people who died from famine after he ordered the Yellow River dikes destroyed. Chiang also tried to invade Mainland China.

[@wargriffin5]

Maybe this is just me being confrontational, but I can't help but think we wouldn't be dealing with this side of China if we'd blown their jets out of the sky any time they buzzed our ships/planes in international waters. Same goes for Russia. If they wanna play games, then we can play "how many 20mm bullets does it take to get to the center of a J-20."

[@Eibarwoman]

We'd probably be glowing in the dark if we did that since both China and Russia have nukes.

[@erickschusterdeoliveira2662]

while that idea *is* hilarious, that'd never happen because it'd sour trade relations. if you depend on a country economically, you can't afford to shoot down their shit, but you *can* afford to pester them.

[@wargriffin5]

@@Eibarwoman And both China and Russia are invading (or preparing to invade) other countries anyway. Why? Because they think they can step on others and get away with it. Nukes or not, weakness is its own provocation in the mind of a predator.

[@BackwardsPancake]

You're basically right. The usual play for these autocratic military states is that they will go exactly as far as they believe that they can get away with, and not one inch less. Western countries can be hesitant to stand up and set reasonable limits for them over this because of nuke panic, but I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding: The authoritarian leadership castes who act in these ways are not unhinged monsters - They're simply systemically-paranoid cowards who cover up that fact with mountainloads of posturing and joker-mode theatrics - These won't convince the experts, but they will scare the laymen, and against democracies, that matters. Behind it though, as always with cowards, their true first priority is self-preservation, and the second is self-enrichment - They will not turn the world to ash, as long as there is even the slightest chance that they might stay in the game and have a quality of life that beats the post-apocalypse, and by god they're good at weaseling themselves out of harms way/throwing others under the bus (they would not have made it to their positions if they weren't). If you convincingly demonstrate that they can get away with less than they thought, they may curse up a storm, but as long as someone at the top who has their hands near the keys thinks there is even the slightest chance they can continue to play the game, they will work within their new limits, rather than all agree to push the button.

[@Eibarwoman]

@@erickschusterdeoliveira2662 Also see the fact these countries have nuclear weapons which prevents further aggression even if a collision were to occur.

[@exi8550]

"cash-ey" lmao what a pompous way to say cache

[@itsprobablym3509]

I dont know anything ab foreign policy

[@rodrigodemiguellamminen5244]

I've seen Hasan's take and it's just painful to listen to

[@rubbedibubb5017]

We need to make a video like that one with Trump, with Vaush just saying China China a bunch of times.

[@smartstupidman]

If your foreign policy is "America Bad", you're right 95% of the time. Also, I live IN AMERICA, so criticizing my own country is the most effective type of criticism. What do I add to the discourse by just agreeing with the State Dept on every issue?

[@avinashreji60]

Ok? Just because you happen to agree doesn’t make it wrong. That is juvenile

[@diegomasiero1784]

Cashay away

[@MrGksarathy]

Apropos of nothing, but it's wild being an FE Three Houses fan while all this is going on. The overlap between Edel stans and Russia/China apologists is disturbing, to say the least.

[@osamaal-jundi2186]

OK So of Russia waited 70 years they can take crimea???!

[@WooTainG]

The title is correct, but they fail to realize that Vaush is one of the worst at it.

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

Oh, really? Why is that?

[@danielshepard1449]

Vaush represents the biggest problem with western foreign policy, which is "lefties" who are indistinguishable from neocons

[@WooTainG]

@@InfiniteDeckhand "glass Isreal" What an intellectual power house.

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

@@WooTainG Something he never said. Nice try.

[@WooTainG]

What about here where he said it almost ver badem

[@Ar1AnX1x]

boobabae

[@eelvis1674]

Corbyn is basically dead to me at this point, but to be fair, he still would have supported Ukraine if he had been PM, the Conservative party is funded by Russia and they're all friends with the oligarchs, but BJ has still be one of the most steadfast supporters of Ukraine outside of the former Warsaw Pact, it's kind of an inevitability of the UKs geopolitical position. It's possible he would have been a bit more like Macron in trying to bring Putin to the table, but the only reason he's making such strong statements right now is because he isn't in power, and is pretty much politically irrelevant.

[@eelvis1674]

@Aditya Chavarkar I didn't say he was a good guy. I said he has been more supportive both vocally and materially than Macron and Scholz. I still think Corbyn would have been a better PM and I don't think this war would have tarnished that.

[@jascu4251]

Support for Ukraine in the UK is high, if Corbyn were PM and wasn't seen to be backing Ukraine fully he would get turfed out by his party. They'd have been looking for an excuse to ditch him regardless.

[@eelvis1674]

@Aditya Chavarkar Literally the only leftist leader? Are you listening to yourself? He, and his supporters have been purged from the labour party. Until we get PR you need to move on.

[@danielshepard1449]

I love how you say this like it's a good thing that that being elected to positions of power forces you to support US/western imperialism.

[@eelvis1674]

@@danielshepard1449 it's a good thing when "US/Western imperialism" is aiding a country in it's fight against imperialist wars of aggression from it's neighbours. I'm a socialist unlike you, which means that I care about the international proletariat, and about freedom from tyranny.

[@Kimjongilmao]

To be fair, Vaush also sucks at foreign policy lol

[@AnonYmous-ii8gn]

Wow that Mao Zedong guy sounds like an interesting leader. What form of government did he lead? Have there been other instances of that form of governance being instituted and if so were the results something an intelligent person would advocate for today?

[@Robbay363]

Ooh a questionaire! #1: Authoritarian Fascism #2: Yes, many. #3: No Hope that was satisfactory.

[@weehoo2]

@@Robbay363 perfect

[@LotharOfTheHillPeople]

Borandy the Stupid's origin story, how fun.

[@avocadocrumch]

bababooey

[@smartstupidman]

If you're a "Libertarian Socialist" who likes NATO, reevaluate your life.

[@badrhetoric5637]

Waaaay too strong to say Corbyn sided with Russia. He's has bad take, or at least not framed his views very well. But he's not on Russia side.

[@joshme3659]

I mean he said we should stop sending weapons to ukraine

[@badrhetoric5637]

@@joshme3659 that doesn't make you pro Russian. Unless you enforce the very American right wing "if you're not with us you're against us" binary. I do think one should be anti tyrant though.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@joshme3659 So you think anyone who doesn't want to arm proxy militias in Ukraine "supports Russia"? Does being against arming the Mujahedeen in the 1980's mean you support Russia? Does being against arming the contras mean you support the sandanistas? Does being against arming Cuban seperatists mean you support Castro?

[@dragunov815]

Good grief.

[@SuperpowerBroadcasting]

19:03 Umm I'm a liberal and I support Taiwan lol

[@mysticonthehill]

I am guess many if not most liberals do. It is a really stupid way to frame things because liberals and socialist often hold the same views, which is not surprising given socialism arose out of liberalism.

[@danielshepard1449]

Why do we conflate "support Taiwan" with "supporting Taiwan separatist movements and selling them weapons"?? Those are different things.

[@SuperpowerBroadcasting]

@@danielshepard1449 What good is support without actions to back it up?

[@danielshepard1449]

@@SuperpowerBroadcasting Who said you can't take actions to back it up?

[@TSmith-yy3cc]

Typical Vowsh ignoring/belittling his opponent's highly-nuanced and complicated argument: "BUT MURIKKKA BAD!"

[@spaghettimon3851]

God bless the People's People's of China and long live Chairman Mao Zeodong! 🇨🇺❤🇨🇳 ☭

[@kain6996]

Not a fascist strong man at all noooo couldn’t be

[@spaghettimon3851]

@@kain6996 Mao liquidated 3 million landlords and industrialized China ending centuries of famine.

[@justice5408]

TBH i love u vaush but the “republic of china” can be better described as nationalist china or better yet fascists themselves. not that mao was great.

[@Arc77crA]

Is ThAt a SuPErNATuRaL ReFERenCe!

[@danielkostenko8189]

I support Taiwanese independence as long as it's officially known as "Chinese Fucking Taipei"

[@--julian_]

chaiwanese lmao

[@Blender_and_Chirp]

Ok now you are straw manning leftists?

[@alexpkeaton4471]

You clicked didn't you?

[@benkim6969]

13:15

[@wynoglia]

Omg I nearly had a heart attack when Vaush compared Taiwan-China to the civil war and Taiwan is "the south" Pls don't do that again 😭

[@15clank]

How does anyone take this guy seriously

[@uli11]

So is ROC the only governing party in Taiwan? Do they have a different not fascist government bodies? Are there indigenous Taiwanese people from before the ROC fled to Taiwan?

[@jascu4251]

ROC isn't the party name, thats the official name of the country (Republic of China - ie not PRC) There are multiple parties and elections

[@femboyexpert313]

Taiwanese here. The Democratic Progressive Party is the current ruling party. They lean towards independence. The opposition is the Kuomintang (the people that fled here after the civil war). There are austronesian indigenous people who have been here for thousands of years. Most people here are descendents of Chinese colonizers who have arrived here at around the same time white people arrived in the modern US.

[@uli11]

@@jascu4251 so “Taiwan” as we know it is a colloquial name based on the name of the island I assume?

[@jascu4251]

@@uli11 You could roughly think of it like if the US had a civil war and one side got the mainland and the other was pushed back into Alaska, but were able to hold it it wouldn't be an Alaska independence movement, both sides were fighting for the whole country. The USA would call itself USA and Alaska would also say "no we're the USA too" and have it in their officlal name , but everyone would say "Alaska" Over time this situation might morph into something else, but thats the genesis of it

[@Dave102693]

Hasan be like...

[@boletarianbread7349]

I'm not here to defend China, but the situation in Taiwan is very different compared to the situation in Ukraine. For one, Taiwan's existence as an independent nation directly challenges the CCP because Taiwan's government is literally called the Republic of China. Chiang Kai-Shek and his party fled to Taiwan and operated as a government in exile, with the KMT proclaiming itself the legitimate government of China and the CCP a terrorist group. Ukraine does not proclaim itself the "true Russia" or anything of the sort. Furthermore, Chiang Kai-shek was an oppressive dictator as bad as Mao who strategically avoided defending areas where Mao and his rebels were popular from the Japanese in WW2. He was not a good guy, and the Taiwanese government, although better now than it was, inherited his horrible reputation. My point in all of this is just to say that the Taiwan situation is very very different to the Ukraine situation and has a lot, a LOT more nuance. The lack of western understanding of this history combined with the very authoritative attitude of the west, more than anything else, is why Chinese people get very mad when the west interferes in the conflict between China and Taiwan. The view that China vs Taiwan is "evil China vs good China" is extremely reductive and from the Chinese perspective makes you look like an ignorant moron.

[@TheEnecca]

how is "taiwan was once as bad as china" a good argument for letting them invade now. thats the same argument that people use to defend russia. russia has legitable interests so they are allowed to murder people. no. they dont.

[@zyanego3170]

But Chiang Kai-sheks party isn't even in charge of the Republic of China anymore, they're ruled by the Democratic Progressive Party.

[@danielshepard1449]

I mean the view that Russia vs Ukraine is "evil Russia vs Good Russia" is reductive as well, but I think the situations are comparable in terms of the US's role. Ukraine and Taiwan have both been core geopolitical interests of Russia and China for hundreds of years, at various times being the same nation. The US foreign policy strategy in both regions is to turn these places into militarized satellite states to weaken Russia and China. They are doing it through large amounts of arms sales, supporting nationalist movements and high profile diplomatic visits. That's the similarity. If there is a coup of the Taiwan government in the coming months or years and a pro US party takes over government and purges all the pro Chinese parties, and then there is a civil war and/or Chinese invasion of Taiwan, the situation would be extremely analogous to Ukraine.

[@boletarianbread7349]

@@danielshepard1449 Taiwan is not going to have a coup and is already pro US interests in the region in that they are a capitalist democracy.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@boletarianbread7349 Right now Taiwan still has a government that is maintaining the status quo, if the US wanted to, they could continue their weapons sales and back the more nationalistic factions in the pan green coalition, which could of course lead to a coup....that's similar to what they did in Ukraine and many other places.

[@lunatir]

Im often on your side and see you as a lefty ally, but i think you often suck at foreign policy (and sometimes also in a more deeper history understanding). We don't live in an ideal world and pissing off everyone you don't like is dangerous and contraproductive. If you want to play the world just from a moral perspective, the consequences can be just as bad as from the Brzinski, Friedman people etc. I know it's very catchy and popular declairing half of the world to Hitler 2.0 beasts and others to "naive" Chamberlaines. I'm from "east" germany and the change in politics came through approach and understanding the perspectives of each other. Instead confrontation often strenghten the hardliners and can lead to way more suffering and war. At the end i think the US are far away...the help most of the time is no help...and the price must be paid from others.

[@KM-jf6bn]

But the thing is that the Taiwanese are the ones who will have to pay the highest and most immediate costs and they’re still in favor of getting any support from the U.S. they can muster.

[@danielshepard1449]

It's funny how Vaush is a utilitarian who only cares about outcomes until it comes to foreign policy where America suddenly has to stop imperialism everywhere in the world on principle with no regard for the consequences of actions.

[@lincabe321]

Hasan😩

[@nathandrake5544]

You can disagree with Corbyn and Chomsky's takes on Ukraine, but to insinuate that they support Russia is libelous

[@rondolo1]

“Ukraine should have negotiated” is a pro-Russian narrative.

[@nathandrake5544]

@@rondolo1 your mom is a pro-Russia narrative

[@pepe2493]

As a non American who still has somewhat positive feelings about the US, I just stopped listening to what you have to say about other countries, you're too insular and narrow minded, doesn't matter if you're left or right

[@lordlubu3029]

lol stay mad tankie

[@pepe2493]

@@lordlubu3029 case in point lol

[@damjanp7920]

yeah, for me as a non American too, Hasan has way better foreign policy takes

[@arlaux1099]

@@damjanp7920 No, Hasan gives way too much leeway to Chinese imperialism vs American imperialism. It’s a dumb dichotomy when both are absolutely horrid. China is indeed worse in every way though, it is America +

[@ashokrohan7232]

@@damjanp7920 I'm a non American and Hasan can go jump off a cliff. Watching him play defense for China 24/7 as a south east asian makes me wanna throw up. They lay claim on international waters, harass our fishermen, sink our fishing vessels, to the point where we ask for US naval presence in the pacific together with Korea and Japan. I imagine the Ukrainians feel the same way when he played defense for Russia before the invasion.

[@dean7457]

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 I love the effort you put into trying to sound intelligent. The rest of your content unfortunately proves otherwise.. Ps.. I only watched the first two minutes. That was enough.

[@apratimdas7652]

Bro ur insane

[@bumblebeeatbreadloaf1286]

Ok infrared subscriber

[@joeyrufo]

Wow! Voosh says "foreign policy" instead of "imperialism." quelle surprise! 🙄🙄🙄