Why Are Leftists SO BAD At Covering Russia & Ukraine? | Talking w/ Majority Report's

[@VanessaB]

Huge MR-fan and I love Emma, Matt and Brandon, but that convo was inconceivably frustrating and uninformed. Fears over nuclear weapons are always completely justified, but this "we shouldnt support Ukraine because thats what the US and Nato are incentivized to want" is such a ridiculously reductive and dumb take that I would expect to hear it from Jimmy Dore. Especially as a European I have to wonder if Americans with this opinion will under any condition support sending aid to nations that could possibly be invaded by Putin's fascist regime.

[@manucr9183]

Both are evil, thats were the concern comes from.

[@maggazilla]

Same man, it was so churlish.

[@Vztahovacna]

No, they wouldn't support sending aid to anyone who's under the onslaugt of a fascist actor. That's because the prevailing chunk of western left is isolationist in nature which means that unless you already are a wealthy western country and thus can deal with it without outside help you're welcome to lie down and die. They would rather see entire peoples exterminated than sully themselves by doing something good under the US umbrella. Kinda completely opposite to what leftism should be about but there you go.

[@CrushedFemur]

@@manucr9183 well thank goodness the US is only selling weapons and not involved imagine having two evil armies fighting inside Ukraine and not just an invader fighting the defense force

[@danielshepard2315]

" "we shouldnt support Ukraine because thats what the US and Nato are incentivized to want" is such a ridiculously reductive and dumb take" That's not the reason we shouldn't be funding a proxy war in Ukraine, we shouldn't be doing it because US involvement in Ukraine since 2014 is what started this civil war conflict, which escalated to an invasion, in the first place. What countries do you think Russia and China should send aid to in order to defend themselves from America's "fascist regime"? The US military is invading far more countries and has killed far more people than Putin, so should Russia and China just let us get away with it?

[@eelvis1674]

"When you don't have a dog in this fight" holy shit. Everyone "has a dog in the fight" for basic human dignity, for life, for freedom, for democracy. Unless you just don't believe in these things, or don't believe Ukrainians to be your equals as humans, you HAVE a dog in this fight.

[@danielshepard2315]

" Everyone "has a dog in the fight" for basic human dignity, for life, for freedom, for democracy" LMAO buddy thinks he is in a call of duty video game

[@robertaylor9218]

Seriously this is like Hilary Clinton saying we just need to sell out trans people to the fascists to keep them from taking full power. Albeit on a DRAMATICALLY scaled up version.

[@aaronmarks9366]

That part was very telling. They don't give a shit about the Ukrainian people and what they want, they only see the conflict in terms of Evil America and Less Evil/Backed-Into-A-Corner Russia. Guaranteed if we were talking about the US's war in Vietnam or France's War in Algeria, they would very much have a dog in the fight.

[@donaldhysa4836]

@@danielshepard2315 Who the fuck said anything about Call of Duty?

[@danielshepard2315]

@@donaldhysa4836 The guy giving braveheart speeches about the war

[@chargingbadger_]

The show oscillating between progressive Democrat and commie when Sam leaves has been the MR meta for years and I kind of like it because Sam becomes quite literally ‘the adult in the room’ and it has an endearing cross-generation quality to it.

[@lava172]

Sam and Emma together have a great dynamic in that regard

[@aliensasquatch7485]

This is very true

[@discowolf25]

Man… RiP too Michael though. No matter what you think about the MR… TMBS will and, always will be the 🐐. I legit cudda gone right wing without him.

[@zotaninoron3548]

@@discowolf25 Something truly important was lost when Michael died. And I wonder where leftist discourse would be if he was still able to contribute. Or he would have pulled a Chomsky/Corbyn and I'd have one less hero. :\

[@danielshepard2315]

@@zotaninoron3548 "Or he would have pulled a Chomsky/Corbyn" Lol Chomsky and Corbyn were 2 people Michael idolized and would be defending today, also he was strongly anti NATO. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[@gustavchambert7072]

Paraphrasing: "We need to make Ukraine stop fighting so that russia will stop using its untrained conscripts as cannon fodder in their invasion and so that the russian government can stop jailing peace protesters" Wow, I just lost soooo much respect for Emma.

[@danielshepard2315]

And by "paraphrase" you mean "completely bullshit strawman"

[@OriganalPie]

@@danielshepard2315 What did Gustav get wrong?

[@danielshepard2315]

@@OriganalPie Everything, nowhere did Emma say anything he put in that quote

[@OriganalPie]

@@danielshepard2315 4:42 - Implies Ukraine doesn't want conflict to end, which means that she thinks Ukraine is keeping the war going, because it implies that Ukraine could have done something to stop the war already. Nowhere in the video does she blame the war on the aggressor. She wants Ukraine to stop fighting, but doesn't seem to care that Russia is the reason they are doing so. So I wouldn't call the "We need to make Ukraine stop fighting..." part a strawman. 6:34 - Talks about concerns with protesters as prisoners and the Russian draft. Vaush actually calls out this point himself right after she makes it. She's concerned with the Russian victims, but because of the earlier statements (and lack of contrary statements later), she appears to blame Ukraine for that too. So that's the whole quote. They're also right next to each other less than 10 minutes into the video. Did you even watch it?

[@danielshepard2315]

@@OriganalPie Wrong, she was talking about the American government wanting to keep the war going, and how America has a role in what is happening. Both Ukraine and the US could of done something to stop the war, which would be to not overthrow the elected government in 2014 and start the civil war in the first place. Or not block peace talks like Boris Johnson did. Who you blame the war on is irrelevant, it was mostly the US and their proxy forces who started the civil war, and Russia and their proxy forces who invaded. What's relevant is solutions to end it that actually work in the real world, and what actions you can take to achieve that outcome. She wants the US to use its leverage to negotiate an end to the war, not just for "Ukraine to stop fighting" that's misleading on purpose and implies some kind of unconditional surrender. Secondly, being concerned with Russians being forced into war and dying has absolutely nothing to do with "blaming Ukraine" you just completely made this up. You seem very concerned with moralizing the war but not really concerned about solutions.

[@Lorenz1973]

Right to self defence on an individual and national basis against aggression is something I support. There is a clear aggressor, and you can try to de-escalate prior to the attack, but once the physical violence start, an individual or state should have the right to defend themselves. And a bystander who tells the person/ state who gets attacked not to fight back because that will prolong the attack or make it more violent… part of the problem. Those bystanders encourage the attacker.

[@wile123456]

Yes that black guy would 180 his opinion when it comes to police violence against black people. Its victim blaming rethoric

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

@@wile123456 as a black guy I would probably say that fighting the police is not something that I expect general society to join me in and is a much lower bar than a war. I'm not disagreeing with Ukraine's right to self-defense but usually attackers on the street aren't carrying bomb vests let alone nuclear arms and being distrustful of the US military's capacity for restraint is warranted when mainstream media was basically calling for boots on the ground. Edit: please read this comment with the understanding that I'm responding to wei and not OP for a fucking reason.

[@RJLiams]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 So they have a right to self-defense but it's wrong for them to fight back and other countries give them the means to defend themselves because nukes.

[@Lorenz1973]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 There are neither USA nor NATO troops on the ground… for the entire time of this war. So bigger countries are allowed to bully smaller neighbouring countries… in the case of David (underdog) versus Goliath (bully) scenario, you side with Goliath/ bully. Sorry, I don’t. You don’t just invade your neighbour. What century do we live in that you just march into neighbouring country and start occupying it…. and Russian propaganda has been talking about the Baltic countries and Gotland (Swedish Island) for years. So that would be okay as well? Russia wants better access to the Baltic Sea… and the Soviets Union moved Russian people all over the place, so there are Russian minorities in all those Baltic countries. And Georgia? Russia can invade all those countries?

[@sherlocksmuuug6692]

I'm certain they wouldn't be talking the same way if a European country that used to be a colonial power openly re-invaded one of its former African or Asian colonies while making arguments straight out of the 19th century. Because that is absolutely the relationship between Ukraine and Russia (and its other neighbours that Russia likes to meddle with). But a lot of people don't seem to quite understand that colonialism/imperialism isn't just something that only happens between "white" and "non-white" nations. A predominantly "white" country can in fact engage in a colonial/imperialist manner against other white people (especially considering white is an extremly vague and flexible designation) and a non-white country can absolutely engage in colonial policy with other non-white countries. It's the exact same reaction as when the Serbs tried to keep their imperialist project of "Greater Serbia" ie Yugoslavia together via genocide or *>gestures at everything the PRC has been up to for the past few decades

[@corranhorn85]

"I don't think Russian propaganda has an effect on the American position." While propagating the Russian line.

[@Gloomdrake]

We're still dealing with the fallout of Russian propaganda influencing American politics

[@danielshepard2315]

The most effective western propaganda in this war has been getting like 70% of the left to lose their minds, act like this is the first war to ever happen, and thinking that negotiating with Russia or acknowledging that a civil war was happening is "Russian propaganda"

[@Nerobyrne]

Yeah did we already forget about the Muller report?

[@TouringWolf42]

Suddenly lefties forget about 4 years of Trump and the literal cases of Russia spreading bots to spew propaganda, history repeats after two fucking years

[@juvedoo99]

@@Nerobyrne yes

[@Zretgul_timerunner]

As a leftist it hurts to hear how many is stuck in the america always bad sphere in the leftist domain.

[@Lorenz1973]

Fellow lefty, feeling the same pain. Can’t believe how many lefties can’t differentiate between situations and circumstances. Or recognising imperialism in other countries… rather disappointing.

[@Gloomdrake]

It makes me wonder what they dislike about American imperialism specifically, since they're clearly not anti-imperialism broadly

[@danielshepard2315]

Imagine calling yourself a "leftist" and saying "too many people in America think the American military is bad!" lmfao

[@Zretgul_timerunner]

@@danielshepard2315 who says that the voices in your head? Nobody in this thread has mentioned anything of the sorts?

[@danielshepard2315]

@@Zretgul_timerunner So what does "it hurts to hear how many is stuck in the america always bad sphere in the leftist domain" if it doesn't mean you are worried about too many leftists in America thinking American foreign policy is bad?

[@nuclearneo577]

Matt's point about everybody uniting around Ukraine is something that needs to be said more often to people who think this is a US lead proxy war. When Finland, Sweden and even Ireland are sending military aid to Ukraine alongside NATO and our usual other allies, Switzerland is taking part in sanctions and Russia's up until now usual allies of Kazakhstan, Armenia and Serbia are sending humanitarian aid to Ukraine and cutting ties with Russia, this very clearly isn't a US lead effort.

[@Eibarwoman]

The problem is China and India have latched firmly onto the side of Russia like remoras.

[@Nomoreinem]

If the US backed Russia these people would be supporting Ukraine.

[@jidk6565]

The only thing the US is leading in with this is the amount and quality of aid given

[@Nerobyrne]

People need to understand how insane it is that Kazakhstan is cutting ties with Russia. They were literally the last region to separate from the USSR, and not because they wanted to but because it was entirely untenable to remain. My ex is from there, she lived through the end of the USSR. They hung on right until the very end. As in, to the point where you were unable to get anything in the stores, even with rationing, and the only way to survive was to steal. This radical shift of their attitude towards Russia shows us just how screwed Putin is.

[@aykhanaliyev4720]

Pretty sure even belarus, russians satellite state won't even acknowledge their annexation

[@SaraphDarklaw]

“America bad” is the extent of their analysis.

[@poiu477]

Repeating Vaush's statements is the extent of your analysis.

[@SaraphDarklaw]

@@poiu477 Vaush is a lot more reasoned than I. Nice try baby brain.

[@rockmycd1319]

Exactly. It's compulsive contrarianism with anti-American characteristics. They cannot fathom NATO, the US, and anyone aligned with them ever being in a position of moral good.

[@mokied]

@@poiu477 Do you have an issue with the analysis or just with it origin?

[@poiu477]

@@SaraphDarklaw That's a cute parasocial relationship ya got there. He's really not that well-reasoned and has trouble accepting the validity of any flavor of leftist thought other than his own ultra-specific libertarian socialist ideology.

[@NoName-hg8jq]

Because a lot of people on the left cannot think critcally about Amercian foriegn policy. It is Amercia bad or nothing at all.

[@poiu477]

How about war and death bad? I couldn't care less about the integrity of some capitalist countries borders.

[@danielshepard2315]

If you could think critically, you would realize both America's foreign policy and Russia's foreign policy in Ukraine are "bad", and since we live in America, we could of avoided the conflict by simply not trying to expand American hegemony into Ukraine, or Easter Europe in general after the cold war...because Russia fighting America is bad.

[@aidanhearn4210]

@@danielshepard2315 We expanded our domain into Eastern Europe in part, and this is objective history so don't fucking soy out, was to keep Russia from pulling a Chechnya on every country to their west up to Poland. They ASKED to be Nato, we didn't conscript them or press gang them. We offered Eastern Europe protection and Economic ties and they agreed and benefited exponentially from that.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@aidanhearn4210 " to keep Russia from pulling a Chechnya on every country" It's hilarious how Russia does invasions to try and hold onto territory, and your big brain solution to that is to take more territory from Russia. You understand there is no way to peacefully expand a hostile military alliance into another country's sphere of influence without causing a war right? "They ASKED to be Nato" Firstly, not really true. The US pledged to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO in 2008, 2 years later Ukraine elected a government that wasn't interested in joining NATO, which the US then backed a coup to overthrow in 2014. Secondly, "asking" to be in NATO doesn't make expanding NATO a good thing. Castro asked the USSR for nuclear missiles, does that mean it's good that Soviets put missiles in Cuba and started the Cuban missile crisis? No. "We offered Eastern Europe protection and Economic ties and they agreed and benefited exponentially from that." Yeah Ukraine is benefiting exponentially right now by having millions of people flee the country, hundreds of thousands likely dead, critical infrastructure destroyed and there economy shrinking by 50%.

[@pogo8050]

@@danielshepard2315 Kremlin bot spotted. Opinion disregarded

[@swordmaster2k1]

"Anti war no matter what" is the position that has benefited invaders since WW1. Probably before then too.

[@danielshepard2315]

Spoken like a true neocon

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Anti-war only when it’s the west or the US they never blame and even support the Russians and any other country going to war

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@danielshepard2315 spoken like a true Russian simp that just created this account because his last one got banned

[@peterrandall8717]

WW1, being literally a war of slaughter between completing imperialist powers with no clear aggressor, is probably not the best example there.

[@mauddib696]

@@peterrandall8717 thats what I was thinking, I think Swordmaster2k1 was referring to WW2 maybe.

[@hefancy6921]

Vaush takes another step towards the fated Sam Seder convo: the video

[@solarflare3382]

I dont think he could handle that, he would just start nutting uncontrollably the moment sam pronounced his name

[@maxwelltalley612]

I will cry real Lib tears when that happens.

[@coladict]

I saw the MR discussion live and cringed all the way through, and Binder was the only one keeping it real. I'm glad you got to talk to him and hopefully this will help his channel.

[@killerlamas3532]

binder always keeping it real

[@rainbowkrampus]

Same, I was rolling my eyes so hard I had to turn it off before they fell out.

[@glich86]

i thought i was going crazy listening to it live because my and their takes are usually aligned. But hooooly shit this was awful. Emma's ill conceived "we have to do something" points were *painful* to listen to.

[@strauchdieb7628]

What was the chat like on that day?

[@shawnv9135]

I love how the debate started, it reminded me of the Simpsons. Vaush: alright Matt, I don’t like you and you don’t like me. Matt: I like you. Vaush: oh, well I like you too

[@sterling9314]

Literally tho

[@saveshark8477]

That scene is from Futurama

[@morriganlefay5438]

@@saveshark8477 What? No it isn't, it's between Moe and Lisa

[@saveshark8477]

@@morriganlefay5438 I hadn't seen that clip before, but after some research the Simpsons did a similar joke first in 1998, but not the one you're referring to. That one is between Homer and a drill sergeant and it doesn't have the "you do?" at the end. Futurama did almost the exact version of the joke Shawn is quoting in 1999. It's from S1E7 between Bender and Leela. Then your clip came in 2001, but isn't as direct a quote as the Futurama one. If I had to pick, I would still say Futurama is the origin

[@mateuszborodziuk741]

The MR b team prefers a negative peace characterized by the absence of tension to a positive peace characterized by the presence of justice

[@aidanhearn4210]

Fucking this^^

[@FelisImpurrator]

This is what happens as a result of half the online left having some kind of conflict-avoidant complex. The appeasement logic is literally how generational and social abuse victims try to handle repeated trauma in a lot of cases. Can't fault people for being victims of trauma, but this is still a whole can of like... domestic abuse fawning type shit.

[@danielshepard2315]

What a meaningless platitude. Just say you want an endless proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and you don't care about the consequences of actions.

[@TrU_homie]

This was a great way to put it !🤝

[@aaronmarks9366]

Nailed it

[@HanMasho]

All I heard from the MR people, aside from Binder, was "we should just give the fascists everything they want in order to avoid conflict." Yeah, that doesn't work. They will just keep taking until they're utterly crushed.

[@fishbiter9409]

People keep saying this but I've never heard anyone on the MR crew say we should give Putin anything. I've repeatedly heard them support sending aid to Ukraine to fight off Russia and not give Russia a single inch.

[@abdulmasaiev9024]

@@fishbiter9409 They're literally advocating for exactly this in this very video right at the start. Because, among other things, quagmire quagmire Quagmire giggity

[@MrSaxokeet]

Sam and Binder was the OG group .... I'll always be stuck in 2017 sam, binder and brother Brooks (rest in power) TMR

[@RemixedVoice]

I found myself agreeing with Brooks the most often out of the whole crew.

[@chargingbadger_]

@@RemixedVoice he was the most brilliant of the group without doubt.

[@normtrooper4392]

@@chargingbadger_ a real voice for genuine international solidarity and we lost him so soon

[@Sugarman96]

I can't imagine Michael Brooks agreeing with the "pacifist" stance here.

[@normtrooper4392]

@@Sugarman96 he would 100% be doing a Nelson Mandela impression about how we need to arm Ukraine

[@SpacersChoice]

Bad takes on the MR. I'm glad Matt came onto the stream. He was the only voice of reason in the MR video.

[@jloiben12]

“What if [Ukraine] wants Crimea back?” If Ukraine wants all of Ukraine then we should support them…

[@danielshepard2315]

This is such a childish and naive position, Russia losing Crimea would be a major escalation that the world may never be able to recover from (nuclear war), most Crimeans don't even want to be part of Ukraine, but since some Ukrainian nationalists "want it back" none of that matters I guess.

[@OryxAU]

@@danielshepard2315 Nope, many Crimeans refused to vote in the referendum because they saw it as illegitimate and illegal, which it was. To look at Crimea today and say they don't want to be Ukranian is disingenuous because they literally kicked people out, beat them into submission, or just killed them. Crimea is not Russian no matter how many Russians they move into it after their hostile takeover.

[@Noschool100]

@@danielshepard2315 that's some serious brain rot to a country support invading a territory and then respecting the result of a referendum the invading country held.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@Noschool100 I didn't even mention a referendum or invasion, so no idea where you got that from

[@danielshepard2315]

@@OryxAU You don't even have to look at the referendum to know this, multiple western polling agencies, including the US government's own surveys, have consistently reaffirmed that the vast majority of Crimean's want to be part of Russia. This isn't surprising at all, given most Crimeans are literally Russians...and Crimea has been occupied by the Russian military for over 100 years.

[@Alicehad3cats]

I’m Ukrainian & I used to be such a fan of all of these folks on Majority report & I’m so hurt and disheartened

[@belkyhernandez8281]

Ignorance of youth and unprocessed fear. This generation has just discovered the world has nukes and don't know what to make of it.

[@swaggyjimmy]

I don't blame you. It's also astonished me how much of a blind spot so many lefties have on what should be such a simple and obvious position of completely supporting Ukraine against such a blatantly imperialist war of conquest the likes of which we haven't seen from a major power since before 1945. Luckily their position is the minority and most people are doing the right thing and supporting Ukraine. But from people who *should* know better, holding water for Russia here is frankly embarrassing.

[@torgon2711]

As Ukranian who was part of genocide of Donbas ppl, u must be such a fan, yeah

[@aaronmarks9366]

I'm Ukrainian-American, and me too. I especially followed Emma for years on TYT, and this conversation left my jaw on the floor with how idiotic it was. Please know that there are a lot of American leftists rooting for the Ukrainian people to defeat and throw out the fascist invader and to reclaim all of your territory, including Crimea. Love and strength to all of you

[@torgon2711]

@@aaronmarks9366 fascist invader u mean zelenskiy?

[@letustalk]

I love TMR, but god damn. When the B-team gets something wrong, they get it really fucking wrong. It's infuriating.

[@blackspine343]

too bad Sam's been playing D for them ever since.

[@jloiben12]

The issue with the Elon musk vote “proposal” is that in order to actually make it a neutral vote (returning all the displaced people, removing the people Russia sent there, going back to pre-invasion/pre-integration-with-Russia structures and systems, etc) it would take decades and would likely not be possible to actually do because Putin would just get bored and stop playing along

[@thegreatgario3478]

the other problem with the elon musk vote proposal is that he made it after literally talking to putin, apparently so it's likely *literally* russian propaganda

[@jloiben12]

@@thegreatgario3478 Exactly. When we take it on its face it isn’t viable. When we account for the actual specifics it is nonsensical

[@pogo8050]

@@thegreatgario3478 Elon is just speedrunning to become the worst person on earth

[@pansepot1490]

Elon desperately needs a sugar daddy because he hasn’t got the cash to buy Twitter. Signed the deal as a dare joke, then tried to get out of it but lawyers told him he can’t.

[@pogo8050]

@@pansepot1490 and they say poor people are the ones bad at handling money lmao

[@hatrick3117]

This is so fun to watch mainstream Russian war bloggers saying that Ukraine's army might not accept peace and go to the end on it's own. And at the same time seeing 4Head commentators in US saying that Zelenskiy is not interested in his people opinion to end the war... Jesus Christ... Zelenskiy is underplaying A LOT of what me and other Ukrainians want to do to Russians at this point...

[@danielshepard2315]

Zelensky has advocated for NATO to do pre emptive strikes on Russia, which would lead to the deaths of millions of people and probably all of your friends and family. So what exactly is he not doing that you want him to do?

[@nerag7459]

He's not going to invade Russia. Poland on the other hand...

[@user-gj4wj6ws3g]

+. Західняки обожнюють розповідати, чого хочуть українці, при цьому й гадки не маючи, чого ж ми хочемо.

[@LucasDimoveo]

@@nerag7459 Poland is crazy. They totally would invade Russia

[@ProperlyGaming]

Yeah they seem to think if we dont give you aid yall will just sit down and be putins little bitch, but thats peoples homes and nothing makes people more willing to fight to their death then some invaders trying to take what aint theirs. The only thing that would happen if america stops giving military aid to ukraine is more death exceot it would be more death of the innocent fighting for their homes ukrainians because they dont have the weaponry to hold back and fight off the russians.

[@Sicsempertyranus313]

This is why I don’t watch the majority report when seeder isn’t there.

[@Loki_Leftist]

But he agrees with them

[@danielshepard2315]

Because you are a liberal, and when there are actual leftists on the show you don't like it?

[@CODDE117]

Seder

[@William-Morey-Baker]

@@Loki_Leftist no, he doesnt... not on this topic

[@Loki_Leftist]

@@William-Morey-Baker so what is his disagreement?

[@jonathansurovell3516]

Emma's performance here was way worse than how she handled the issue when Sam is around. This was beneath contempt. And Brandon... I can't believe how idiotic he was in this conversation. I thought he was better than this.

[@matthewpopp1054]

Which one is Brandon? Is it the faceless voice on the mike

[@jonathansurovell3516]

@@matthewpopp1054 the one with the glasses saying the US could have prevented Russia from invading by building better conflict resolution institutions than the UN. The faceless one is Matt Lech. Lech has bounced around different rationales for blaming the war on NATO, starting with the accusation that their warnings about the invasion were lies meant to justify US involvement.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@jonathansurovell3516 So the US expanding a hostile military alliance designed to weaken Russia, into Russia's sphere of influence, which they have been warning against doing for the last 30 years, has nothing to do with what is happening now?

[@amythomspon956]

Brandon has always been this annoying

[@spazzpeddlerclosing]

geezus you americans eat each other then eat your enemies enemy then say to the african whats your deal friend?

[@geolosophizer7293]

Listening to Michael Brooks dunk on Dave Rubin was what initially pulled me out of the far right pipeline on youtube, but his nuanced, deep understanding of geopolitics was what kept me interested and really cemented my decision to be a MR subscriber. Listening to that MR stream on Ukraine was upsetting, literally arguing for appeasement & scoffing at those rightly calling them out for advocating that. "Read more than 1 book on WW2?" how about you read a book on what happens when you let a fascist invader get his way illegally annexing territory and no one stops him from doing so Matt Lech. RIP Michael, you are sorely missed.

[@danielshepard2315]

Michael Brooks was strongly anti NATO and wanted to de escalate tensions with Russia. If he were alive you would be calling him "Neville Chamberlain" or a "Putin puppet" or something. "how about you read a book on what happens when you let a fascist invader get his way illegally annexing territory and no one stops him from doing so" So how should Russia and China stop the fascist invaders of America from invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, etc.? Do you support Russia and China appeasing the US? Or do you want them to start funding and arming nationalists movements to fight US troops? How about they put some missiles in Cuba and Mexico? How would that work out for promoting peace?

[@ProfDCoy]

Ever since Michael's death and Matt's attempt to carry on being a commentator without Michael there to steer and clarify the MR/TMBS analysis of various world events, I have become almost certain that Matt is an enormously stupid human being convinced of his own brilliance because he read a few books of Marxist Theory and a few books on US actions in Latin America.

[@kishdaichi8962]

They arent and seemingly refuse to think of the context of the end of the war. Thats what kills me. Saying you want to violence to stop but now HOW is crazy. Who wins this matters. How they when will matter. Who pulls the trigger matters. Prolonging a war by giving the victims a chance to fight back isnt as bad as arming both sides or giving the attackers arms to end the conflict faster.

[@danielshepard2315]

The conflict isn't going to end by someone "winning" Ukraine has taken back something like 10% of the territory they lost, even if they took back 50 or 100% of the territory, that still isn't going to end the fighting. Russia is not going to stop and go home when they view Ukraine and access to Crimea as their core sphere of geopolitical influence. The war can only end through unconditional surrender by Ukraine/Russia (unlikely) or through a negotiated settlement. The sooner we get a negotiated settlement the better. We may of been able to have one already if Boris Johnson didn't threaten to remove Ukrainian security assurances if they negotiated with Russia.

[@Gloomdrake]

If Russia wins, Ukraine is going to experience a cultural genocide, and Russia will move on to the next neighboring country

[@tph2010]

Exactly, they never say what "end the war" means or what comes next.

[@moss3779]

This clump of moss hopes everyone is having a nice day

[@smurgburglar1550]

Don't think we've forgotten you betraying humanity to the Combine traitor.

[@moss3779]

@@smurgburglar1550 🥺

[@wile123456]

Screw you for stealing Tuca and Bertie's apartment complex

[@TyroneBackyardiagains]

You too

[@BeforeTheCause]

Namaste, Moss. ❤️🙏

[@radiobrain94]

So glad Binder was there to bring some reason to that MR convo, I've been a fan of MR for a while and Matt Binder has always been solid

[@TheTrogolizer]

He and Sam are the only ones with consistent foreign affairs takes.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@TheTrogolizer By "consistent" you mean "agrees with me about Ukraine"

[@TheTrogolizer]

@@danielshepard2315 no, by consistent, I mean they generally don't subscribe to the belief that anything involving America's foreign policy decisions are bad. It is 100% possible to be against American support of Israel and what they're doing to the Palestinians, the entirety of America's occupation of Afghanistan, but then in support of providing arms support to Ukraine. Maybe they're more nuanced than consistent, but the consistency of rationale remains.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@TheTrogolizer No one said "anything involving America's decisions are bad" this decision is just bad. Expanding NATO into Eastern Europe was bad, helping overthrow the Ukrainian government in 2014 was bad, propping up nationalist factions to weaken Russia was bad, American foreign policy officials have been warning that expanding NATO into Eastern Europe has a high chance of causing military retaliation from Russia since the George HW Bush administration.

[@kstar1489]

@@danielshepard2315 letting Russia take Ukraine is bad

[@patrickmccarron2817]

If anyone has seen Vlad Vexler’s channel, he put it way better than I could when it comes to how leftists talk about this. Basically that the discourse actually has nothing to do with Ukraine and has more to do with local American political posturing, which comes off as disrespectful and callous Americentrism to Ukrainians who are actually living with the consequences.

[@YohanRoth]

True. Leftist are mostly our allies here in Ukraine. But seeing people who allegedly " support " us just pestering their political views over and over is so insulting. To those people we are mostly a useful tool. Fuck...

[@seanbinkley7363]

Vlad is awesome!

[@brandons9027]

Brilliant

[@DeusMortemEst]

I just sent an email to MR recommending that they have Vlad (among others) on as a guest. You should do the same!

[@BeforeTheCause]

Good talk. Love Binder. Love Vaush. Love the chats.

[@grimtheghastly8878]

Simple as 👍🏾

[@torgon2711]

Its hard to not love such a good streamer of nazi ideology o.o

[@pi172]

i like Vausch for always pointing out when people devolve into meaningless ramblings.

[@cass7448]

But did you consider NATO bad? This is a profound, relevant point that I'm very intelligent for bringing up.

[@MasterAdam100]

But what about the Romans? How can you criticize Carthage and its ceremonial sacrifice of slaves and kids when the Roman Republic practices slavery? Hypocrite much?

[@saltking2715]

takes one to know one, all hail stunlock King Vooooshington the V.

[@MegaBanne]

@@saltking2715 All power to the potato lord, our liberator!

[@MegaBanne]

Did you know that when USA does it it's bad?

[@EclipseOfTsuki93]

Seeing this conversation on MR really depresses me, I thought they were better than that. I miss Michael Brooks so much.

[@thegreatgario3478]

MR has a history of being dumb when sam (and back in the day, brook) were not in the room

[@thedarkknight221]

It's hit or miss without Sam, but still worth a watch. We've all had bad takes.

[@thegreatgario3478]

@@thedarkknight221 this is true i don't hate the rest of MR, i just acknowledge that they've had plenty of bad takes in the past, too

[@thedarkknight221]

@@thegreatgario3478 yup. And we all miss Michael Brookes. He was a powerhouse.

[@danielshepard2315]

I love how you say this while Michael Brooks for his entire online media career was strongly anti NATO and constantly warning about the dangers of expanding NATO into Eastern Europe, like do you have any idea what Michael's actual positions were?

[@UxerUospr]

To all y'all who say Sam is the voice of reason I'll point out that he was taking the same tack in the Monday stream following the one this segment was from. Albeit he was more measured, but agreed that the US needs to draw a line with negotiations between Ukraine and the fascist invaders. Pretty disappointing especially considering it was being espoused to a caller from Kyiv while she was being bombed by said fascist invaders.

[@aaronmarks9366]

What the fuck

[@zackamania6534]

He’s got NATO derangement syndrome because of 2003.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

He then changed his mind actually after someone explained to him that threatening to force a country to capitulate to the aggressor by cutting off their weapons- and supplies to force your desired policy on them was the exact thing he and his board have criticized the US for doing to other countries and he realized how bad the optics were.

[@UxerUospr]

@@mckenzie.latham91 That's good to hear. I left the stream after they hung up with the Ukraine caller and pivoted to some "lighter" topic.

[@fishbiter9409]

@@mckenzie.latham91 Too bad we live in the era of not reading the whole article before forming an opinion. Hell I bet half the people here didn't even watch the video before heading to the comments.

[@kkimberling]

In a conflict between an aggressor and a defender, the responsibility to avoid a prolonged conflict falls upon the aggressor, NOT the defender. The defender and their allies shouldn’t have some sort of time limit to end the war. The aggressor is responsible if the conflict becomes prolonged. This is not complicated.

[@danielshepard2315]

Buddy, no one cares who you think is responsible, what matters is solutions that actually will work in the real world

[@aaronmarks9366]

@@danielshepard2315 Do you apply that standard to the Axis powers?

[@Alarios711]

@@danielshepard2315 "Dude you are so naive lmao, just appease the imperialist so they know they can (and will) do it again" Are yes that's not naive at all. Also STFU for like 2 minutes. Are you on payroll in a botfarm or something ?

[@kkimberling]

@@danielshepard2315 Here's a solution: Help Ukraine

[@danielshepard2315]

@@aaronmarks9366 Apply what standard?

[@NickDaganBest]

Vaush and I said "thoughts and prayers" in unison.

[@The_Chosen_Heretic]

People would absolutely NOT take this stance for ANY other country. Jesus christ.

[@aaronmarks9366]

That's what I was thinking throughout all of this. There's no way in hell they would have had these same cowardly appeasement takes if it was about France's war in Algeria or the US's war in Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan. And certainly not the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[@danielshepard2315]

Take what stance?

[@brittany9233]

The first part of this was hard to listen to, I respect the MR crew but I didn't know they were supporting appeasement and putting the onus on Ukraine for peace talks. I'm deeply disappointed by this and I'd like to hear what Sam has to say about it. Glad at least one of them was incredulous, and Binder let them talk but the moment he had something to say, they jumped on him. What the hell is going on over there.

[@UxerUospr]

Sam essentially agreed with this take on the Monday stream, while talking to someone calling from Kyiv which was undergoing bombing that morning.

[@XLTBlarg]

@@UxerUospr The Majority Report is so lazy nowadays like TYT and Kyle Kulinski. They just spout opinions without researching first. They were all wrong about thinking Russia was not going to invade because" US fearmongering".

[@danielshepard2315]

It's called people disagreeing with you

[@OriganalPie]

@@danielshepard2315 And they're batshit crazy for doing so in this case. Appeasement doesn't work and Ukraine is not responsible for being invaded. Saying the opposite of that isn't disagreement. It's delusion.

[@aaronmarks9366]

@@danielshepard2315 And we in turn are disagreeing with them.

[@goonerbear8659]

Ah, a new flavor of tankie. Not "send the tanks in," but "don't do anything to those who sent the tanks in."

[@baronbeefcake4701]

Whenever I click on a Majority Report video, I check to see that Sam is there. If not, I usually turn it off. He's often the voice of reason that keeps things on the rails

[@nohbuddy1]

Sam keeps things in reality, which is much needed

[@Lorenz1973]

Completely agree - Sam is great 👍

[@SoftBoiledArt]

Sam never has this weird anti China, anti Rusia, American sceptionallist, cultural war irrelevant crap Vaush haves WAY TOO OFTEN, he normally stays out of silly stuff or making comentary on things that don't concern him or he's ignorant about. So, if you expect him to go full "Russians are orks and this has no geopolitical sense they're just insane" and that kind of propaganda bullshit I fear you'd be dissapointed.

[@soporific9212]

Emma is usually pretty solid, she was a bit out of character here imo...

[@danielshepard2315]

Bro just say you're a liberal LMFAO...if you think the liberal on the show is the "voice of reasons" and all the socialists/leftists are wrong

[@lunartiedstarlight]

My favorite crossover episode, I love seeing Vaush get closer to the MR Sphere

[@DJchilcott]

I hate the essentialist language of "As a leftist". It's like they forget that, your beliefs make you lean left or right, not the other way around.

[@randysavage5272]

These bad takes are not uncommon when Sam's away lol, Binder seems to usually be the reasonable voice in the room.

[@s7robin105]

Even Sam has some bad takes on this issue and suggests the same thing

[@aspookyfox]

Emma is a bit of a neoliberal so

[@wile123456]

@@aspookyfox neolibs support Ukraine though

[@MrRazmut]

@@aspookyfox I don't know her takes, what has she said that was neoliberal stuff?

[@Silverfang447]

@@MrRazmut She has very neoliberal takes, all the way back to when she was on Rebel HQ and endorsed Warren over Sanders in the 2020 primaries.

[@jloiben12]

13:30 The Majority Report: Lets do the Neville Chamberlain because that worked out so well the last time. (edit: Binder seems to be the one person capable of actually thought so exclude him from this critique)

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

I find that Vlad Vexler is by far the best thinker on this issue.

[@fuzzydunlop1988]

his videos are top notch

[@user-zi4wx3uw1y]

Amen

[@arhicluj2008]

Absolutely best takes

[@DeusMortemEst]

I just sent an email to MR recommending that they have Vlad (among others) on as a guest. You should do the same!

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

@@DeusMortemEst Vlad would just blow their minds away, he would feel very embarrassed by the level of unthinking going on there.

[@mwcool87]

My two favorite online lefties finally crossover, and I agree with them 100% on their takes about Ukraine/Russia, fantastic conversation guys!

[@Onus6688]

Yuppppppp

[@Cygnus888]

At the beginning I was really disappointed about Hasan, but now it really saddens me what Emma is saying...

[@Gloomdrake]

At least Hasan's trash take is expected. He's never been the smartest person on foreign policy, and he's kinda just a himbo in general, so it makes sense that he'd be a dick about Ukraine

[@kevray]

They aren’t radical liberals like us :(

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@kevray “either your entire outlook is America bad or you’re a lib “ that’s your take really?? 🤣

[@garfieldGG]

Whenever Sam is gone his underlings say totally stupid stuff. Sometimes when he’s on he will sort of halfway agree with nonsense, but won’t ever go fully along with it. Edit: Good God their convo is like nails on a chalkboard. That guy on the left just rambled on while saying nothing at all. He does that A LOT. I also have to add, it’s this kind of craziness that makes regular liberals look to the left and be like “no thanks”.

[@aaronmarks9366]

That last bit is the part I hate the most, these people make all leftists look like the right-wing caricature of a leftist: ignorant, opinionated college student whose politics are "America bad, authoritarian foreign regime really cool"

[@davidradtke160]

Sounds like a philosophy major to me. Blah blah blah…no real value or meaning in the stuff.

[@spazzpeddlerclosing]

so sam is always right...if not then you wasted your drink onto yourself gg. think before u watch vaush

[@LReezy1992]

Really glad this convo happened. The MR viewerbase generally has a really bad case of VDS so maybe this can help bring the communities to more of an understanding

[@thegreatgario3478]

oh no, really? that's a sham, 'cause i love MR

[@Gloomdrake]

@@thegreatgario3478 MR is neutral to positive on Vaush. Sam even defended Vaush once, though it's debatable whether he knew who Vaush was at the time. It's the fanbase who are crazy

[@LReezy1992]

@@Gloomdrake right that's why I specified the viewers. MR gets probably a half dozen IMs a week decrying Vaush or some position he holds and I'm glad Binder reached out to Vaush so that those people can actually hear Vaush's own words instead of repeating what they think he said from what they heard on reddit or whatever

[@thegreatgario3478]

@@LReezy1992 yeah, i don't think the hosts themselves have a negative opinion of vaush at least i haven't seen them go after him, anyway

[@TheTrogolizer]

The viewerbase definitely has some VDS, but that's just a symptom of a larger audience of a political news channel as opposed to a single socialist bloodborne streamer. Unsurprisingly, you'll find the same vitriol in David Pakman's community, but that's more expected cause he's a filthy lib and that one time he criticized Vaush for raising money for a Palestinian relief fund. The left hurt itself in it's confusion.

[@brockmiller574]

Jesus Christ... My brain is even more smooth now. I'm impressed with Binder. He's kinda like the other side of the pillow.

[@zimmo0112]

There can be, NO appeasement with ruthlessness. There can be, NO reasoning with an incendiary bomb!

[@Eibarwoman]

If there is no reasoning with a bomb, then it's let Russia run rampant until Putin grows bored or nuke Moscow resulting in the end of humanity as nothing else ends the conflict. The sanctions aren't really working as Modi and Xi are working somewhat with enriching Russia.

[@danielshepard2315]

"We don't negotiate with terrorists" - Richard Nixon

[@Molten-Throne]

Daddy Seder needs to slap his kids around a bit 😂

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

Except for when he agreed with them at first and then changed his mind when given further evidence

[@thelonelyphish]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 I believe that acknowledging when you're wrong and changing your opinion is, in fact, a good thing

[@Gloomdrake]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 shouldn't we be praising him for getting better?

[@danielshepard2315]

Just admit you are a liberal bro

[@juvedoo99]

@@Gloomdrake no

[@MasterAdam100]

I mean, Vaush is a featured channel on MR's YT page. It's only a matter of time before Vaush talks to Sam. I mean, if it isn't a debate, they might have him on as a guest.

[@brandonellis8111]

Sam is going to treat Vaush like he did destiny. To be clear, I'm on Vaush side.

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@brandonellis8111 vaush is far more rhetorically gifted then destiny . He has better takes too

[@SM-BSW]

This was a surprisingly wholesome convo! I liked the Tim Pool condo bonding at the end

[@aaronmarks9366]

"Online leftists not make excuses for fascist states when not western" challenge (Impossible)

[@mookiestewart3776]

Exactly lol what’s funny is they don’t even realize how america centric that viewpoint is. It’s still self centered just in a different way

[@dardega]

The lady from The Majority Report considering the appeasement approach: "How do we reduce the bloodshed as soon as possible?" Pfffft, easy - just let Putin to annex the whole globe (including USA) and voila - no more war, no more conflict, everyone lives in Russia, bloodshed reduced. I wish you best luck with your Russian language lessons, ma'am.

[@Eibarwoman]

Unless you nuke all of Russia, this conflict will not end as you have a madman at the wheel and China and India still buying their oil and gas. Putin is too dangerous and how does one do regime change inside that walled off land where dissent makes people die falling from 6th floor windows?

[@danielshepard2315]

LMFAO the idea that you think Putin is trying to "annex the entire globe" shows how home team propaganda really rots your brain.

[@elysahatestostudy9364]

I feel like I'm listening to Tim Pool EDIT: This is about the MR convo. Matt's chill.

[@danielshepard2315]

You associate the left with Tim Pool and being "chill" with being a liberal?

[@elysahatestostudy9364]

@@danielshepard2315 If "the Left" means "Ukraine should surrender to their oppressive invaders", then yes. Because that's not the left.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@elysahatestostudy9364 ""Ukraine should surrender to their oppressive invaders"" Who has said that? Please quote where Sam or anyone else said that.

[@elysahatestostudy9364]

@@danielshepard2315 Sam sure as fuck didn't because Sam is based. Sam was also not in this video.

[@elysahatestostudy9364]

@@danielshepard2315 Making excuses for Russia (of which there are none) and making every argument you can to say that the US should not intervene etc etc basically equates to "just let Russia have them".

[@ampere11]

I've read several books on WWII and the interwar years. Not one of them has argued that appeasement was the correct decision. I would be curious to know what books he'd suggest.

[@danielshepard2315]

Try learning some history outside of WW2

[@ampere11]

@@danielshepard2315 Um what? I was talking about at 23 minutes when the TMR guy says that you need to read more that one book on WW2. I didn't say I only read books about WW2. So maybe try to learn how to read. Or maybe just stfu.

[@juvedoo99]

@@danielshepard2315 Doesn’t exist.

[@tph2010]

Great call on "Thoughts and Prayers" by Vaush. Great discussion with Binder.

[@cenauge]

When people say escalation in regards to the arming of Ukraine, they almost certainly mean "increasing the chances that Russia gets desperate enough to throw away the rules on using nukes." You can't escalate a conflict above war, unless you're referring to escalating war into nuclear war. But pretending that the other side has a very itchy "end-the-world" trigger finger, such that standard arms and equipment (or anything that causes the nuclear power in the fight to lose the conventional war) is too risky, means entering the era of only nuclear powers having sovereignty. We should probably take every reasonable effort to avoid that.

[@danielshepard2315]

"You can't escalate a conflict above war, unless you're referring to escalating war into nuclear war." I agree that most people are usually talking about nuclear war, but it's definitely possible for tit for tat escalations to happen in conventional war as well. We are seeing it right now, after Ukraine escalated by attacking the Kerch strait bridge, Russia escalated with missile strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure. We are not "entering an era of only nuclear powers having sovereignty" this is already how the world works, and has worked since the end of WW2 or at least the cold war...this is why nuclear weapons are such a big deal. Escalating with a nuclear power does absolutely nothing to give anyone more sovereignty, it just increases the chances of nuclear war. The precedent of nuclear powers doing whatever they want has already been set, In 1950, US president Harry S. Truman publicly stated that the use of nuclear weapons was under "active consideration" against Chinese targets during the Korean War. In 1953, US president Dwight D. Eisenhower threatened the use of nuclear weapons to end the Korean War if the Chinese refused to negotiate. The United States issued several nuclear threats against the People's Republic of China in the 1950s to force the evacuation of outlying islands

[@GigasGMX]

Also, a nuclear exchange won’t end the world and we need to stop pretending it will. The so-called “nuclear winter” scenario is based on a massive pile of implausible assumptions. Plus, let’s be real, there’s only like a 50-50 any of Russia’s nukes work.

[@RazgrizWing]

@@danielshepard2315 Ukraine didn't escalate by engaging targets on its own territory. Also it isnt even known if Ukraine targeted that bridge

[@danielshepard2315]

@@RazgrizWing If you are going to claim suicide bombing a Russian bridge isn't an escalation then I don't really know what to say...also "we don't even know if Ukraine targeted the bridge" they were openly gloating about it...wtf? What is the point of doing this level of denialism?

[@Jamesmac77]

@@danielshepard2315 Suicide bomb was proven to be wrong. You're so clearly a russian supporter it's hilarious

[@Lorenz1973]

Georgia 🇬🇪 has already a Russian minority in its country like many former Soviet republics. Part of Georgia is already occupied by Russia 🇷🇺. Some Georgians are concerned that a larger Russian minority/ population in Georgia will be used as a straw man argument for another invasion or any military aggression from Russia 🇷🇺.

[@FullMetalPanicNL]

It's why the West has no choice but to support Ukraine until they win. For everones sakes. People like Putin and Dubbin want the the whole of Europe for their shitty "empire".

[@danielshepard2315]

Some Americans are concerned that a larger arabic minority population in the US will be used as a straw man argument for another terrorist attack or military aggression

[@ludovicusbathory1715]

@@danielshepard2315 to be fair to Georgians russia has used that as a reason to invade a nation. Not that long ago they used that as a reason to invade Ukraine. Is it a stupid argument? Yes especially in America but Russia has Proven they will invade and steal land if enough russians are in it. Making up BS about russians being killed by government sponsored neo Nazis. Again its a messed up fear but Russia has done it.

[@YohanRoth]

@@danielshepard2315 there is difference tho. Do you see it or I need to explain it for you lol

[@danielshepard2315]

@@YohanRoth What's the difference? Russians look white?

[@samhod3086]

‘My principled opposition to the defense industry is worth more than millions of Ukrainian lives’

[@danielshepard2315]

How is continuing the war saving Ukrainian lives?

[@brentshowers741]

The idea they would give up even Crimea it makes no sense to support that because it didn’t stop Putin when he took South Ossetia or Chechnya why would it stop with Crimea if he’s done it more than once now with other countries.

[@richardmeunster8743]

Dude had quagmire for his word of the day and just cant stop using it.

[@joeleek9976]

I am fine with giving aid to Ukraine so Russia doesn't get to take their land. We saw what capitulation does after Crimea. So no. Russia doesn't get to take land from a sovereign nation just because they want to. Idc if Russia feels threatened by the prospect of Ukraine joining nato. Nato is a mutual defense organization...seems like it would only come into play if Russia was planning to invade.

[@devoid5637]

What a great talk between Matt and Vaush! ♥ Looking forward a next one in a near future!

[@yansheredega2560]

"I am concerned about people continuing to die" is of course a great point. Very emphatic one. But please, I beg you, talk to Ukrainian people about it! People in Ukraine took to arms because we firmly believe that more people going to die under the occupation regime. Men in Ukraine are literally more afraid to be taken to Russian prison than to die fighting. Family members of many warriors are stuck in occupied territories. Forcing Ukraine to surrender does not solve the issue of death and suffering. Russian propaganda daily speaks about how there need to be purges of Ukrainian nationals after occupation. This is not a simple question of “we would just stop shooting and war will solve itself”.

[@C0urne]

Someone should confront the unicorn leftists of MR with those facts.

[@danielshepard2315]

Russia is a brutal, old school gas and oil mafia state, that doesn't mean things would be any different than they were from 1990-2014 in Ukraine if there were a negotiated settlement.

[@thatdarnskag5043]

Folks, despite the Ukraine blind spot, I would highly encourage *not* writing off Majority Report in totality. IMO, the good MR does overrides this stuff.

[@obikenobi8855]

True. But it is damaging nonetheless. I always liked Matt Lech chiming in, but since he's displaying this self-righteous arrogance on Ukraine I'm now annoyed when he jumps in on other topics as well. Emma seems to be really struggling to find her position on the topic, which is totally fine, but then also seems to avoid reading further into it to find her position, which is a bit disappointing.

[@mookiestewart3776]

@@obikenobi8855 she can’t find it in herself that america may be doing the morally correct thing for the wrong reasons. Idk why though, I don’t give a fuck why people do things as long as it’s the right thing to do.

[@trashrabbit69]

As a Madisonian I do apologize for our DSA chapter being the most "online left" the online left has ever online lefted. I've been pining to join up now, but... as ridiculous as it sounds, us Vaushites are truly oppressed in such environments. Lol

[@thedarkone246]

99% of the time when someone says as a "______" They about to say something super fucking stupid.

[@KilogramHours]

Matt's evil goblin cackle is so fucking good

[@darkmantlestudios]

These people are just like the isolationists of the 40s. "Well it doesn't have anything to do with meeeeeeee"

[@danielshepard2315]

When you just compare everyone who disagrees with you to WW2 and supporting/empowering Hitler you can justify any policy you want, what a lazy argument

[@darkmantlestudios]

@@danielshepard2315 I compare a fascist to a fascist, what's the shock? Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it can't happen again isn't going to stop it.

[@danielshepard2315]

@@darkmantlestudios Pretending what isn't going to happen? If Russia is fascist then why isn't the United States? They've invaded far more countries and killed far more people than Russia has in modern history

[@filipmaly6603]

I will be honest folks. The first part, the MR part, sounds to me like cross between Miss World and Chamberlain though proces. Like we are talking about revanshionist colonial hegemon attacking its former colony in order to get back in line.

[@pogo8050]

Chamberlain at least had a reason for his appeasement. He knew britains military wasn’t ready to take on the Germans head on and needed time to build up.

[@danielshepard2315]

Americans try not to compare every conflict to WW2 challenge failed

[@filipmaly6603]

@@danielshepard2315 Are you mentally challenge or you can not fathom the idea that a foreigner could use English to comunicate? Also on which side fought Miss World during the World War 2 and also why it is bad to reference major historical event? What is wrong with you Vladimir?

[@frejyayamato]

You'd hope the fall of the Soviet Union would have led to the gradual dissolution of the harsh divide between leftists where a significant portion were uncritically anti-US on principle of being pro-USSR and the other leftists were more nuanced because they acknowledged how American exceptionalism indoctrinates us into a state of viewing international events via their relation to western powers (something we must actively fight against doing), and yet... here we are Many leftists never let go of their uncritically positive perception of the USSR, transferred those feelings onto the Russia that came into existence following the collapse, and passed these sentiments down to modern day leftists. Thus the divide persists to annoyance of the rest of us ... thanks, Stalin.

[@danielshepard2315]

ah yes the "If you don't support provoking the USSR you are pro USSR" argument. Many who were alive during the cold war already went through this.

[@thesexiestcorpse]

@@danielshepard2315 imagine not having a life and replying "umm acshually" under each and every comment in vaush's comment section

[@danielshepard2315]

@@thesexiestcorpse can't relate

[@thesexiestcorpse]

@@danielshepard2315 you have a million replies in this comment section alone and all of them are basically the same holy shit

[@danielshepard2315]

@@thesexiestcorpse Yeah they're good comments

[@tylerhackner9731]

Great convo!

[@Vaishino]

I've never been particularly impressed by Sam's minions and this is maybe a great example of why. Right off the top they basically said the leftist position should be to allow Ukraine to be conquered by an authoritarian state. I don't care how they try to justify it, that's just wrong.

[@danielshepard2315]

Quote where they said that

[@Vaishino]

@@danielshepard2315 oh sure lemme just spool through the hour and a half long video to pull up a time stamp for you.

[@Vaishino]

@Steve Dimov why not, it's basically what they said. If they think helping Ukraine by supplying them with arms to resist the Russians is just "dragging out the war" and that the leftist position is to have as short a war as possible, what they're saying is they'd rather see Russia steamroll Ukraine, rather than Ukraine stand its ground.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Their position is to force the Ukrainians to the table by threatening to cut off their supplies which is the main reason they can stave off Russia but this is inherently problematic because the Ukrainians want to take their country back, and Russia wants to either take their entire country or carve off the best pieces and keep them and a negation or peace talk would essentially be inherently in favor of russia. Again you are essentially saying that a country like Russia can start an invasion seize territory, and you will force the side being invaded into peace talks so they can legally lose those parts of their country to appease the bigger nation again what fair negation can there be? If Ukraine doesn’t accept Russia's demands to hold onto the regions they've illegally annexed under armed occupation and or that the Russians be absolved of all war crimes or etc then what’s the US going to do, force them to accept those terms is that fair, is that good deal for all sides it is for larpy leftists in the US who just want the violence to stop, but think being under Russian occupation or a vassal state for russia means there’s no violence anymore well none that you have to hear and watch, so maybe that counts as win for them? They imply that the US and Ukraine are unwilling to talk but never mention that Russia is the aggressor, and when they bother to remember that they downplay it as a all sides are at fault, we cannot point fingers... they conveniently forget that Ukraine accepted two of Russia big three top demands for peace in the initial months of the war they agreed to remain Neutral and not join Nato and they agreed to allow the donbass and other region to have a fair referendum that would be verified by outside sources and not under Russian occupation They refused to unilaterally surrender all military arms and for all armed forces to stand down and they refused to allow Russian conquests be considered legally property of Russia And Russia pulled out of the agreements, They also ignored the fact that Russia violated every cease-fire they agreed to and were literally telling the world to teir face “we’re not bombing civilians” as we were shown pictures and videos of Russian navy bombardment, missile strikes and bombing against civilian centers, playgrounds, hospitals and residential areas in cities The MIR even pulled a “well Hitler didn't have nukes” in response to people criticizing their neville chamberlain PEACE AT ALL COSTS (even slavery, genocide and ethnic cleansing) theatric and how bad that was which is great if you want to imply that if he did you'd never have opposed or done anything baout Nazis imperial conquest or the holocaust i think that says it all really...

[@mookiestewart3776]

@Steve Dimov ok then I’ll say , they want to allow Ukraine to be conquered …….there ya go

[@jotabe1789]

If the choices I'm presented are either living in a world that has capitulated to Russia, and probably living in a country that's under direct Russian control, because Russia needs to annex territories to feel secure, or dying in a nuclear war, I'm not convinced that the second option is the worst one. It's like Zapata said: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

[@TitenSxull]

This is why I rarely make it through MR segments that don't have Sam in them. That was genuinely painful to sit through seeing Binder surrounded by so much waffling on.

[@drdisillusion8037]

Matt Binder and Vaush! Two of my favorite people on the internet! Awesome!

[@packratpirate4154]

The temerían villagers should’ve negotiated with nilfgaard

[@eliyugend4660]

if only the northern realms hadn't escalated three times by not wanting to be empire'd

[@sherlocksmuuug6692]

And Cintra isn't even a real nation, it was artificially allowed to exist by the usurper. That's why its annexation was perfectly legal 😤

[@filipmaly6603]

True, Nilfgaard just wanted theyr land and nothing else. Thoughts and Prayers for Temeria!

[@robertaylor9218]

These guys are right about so much, but on this issue… they’d literally refuse to send aid to Poland in 1931. It’s insane and it isn’t even their values, they seem to just be blinded when it comes to US foreign policy.

[@danielshepard2315]

Just comparing everything to Nazis in WW2 is not an argument. What about the other hundreds of invasions since then?

[@robertaylor9218]

@@danielshepard2315 because it’s a great power conflict.

[@juvedoo99]

@@robertaylor9218 Ok?

[@danielshepard2315]

@@robertaylor9218 Ok? There have been dozens of "great power conflicts" since WW2

[@mrthewhite2620]

Hearing the word "quagmire" incorrectly used over and over is triggering. this isn't a quagmire for the west cause the west isn't at war at all and it's not even a quagmire for Ukraine. The only party that could conceivable be considered in a quagmire is Russia. Ukraine has been making steady but slow progress for months in retaking their territory, that's the opposite of a quagmire it's just the evolution of a conflict.

[@Thunder-Chief]

This convo was brought up twice on MR! Last Friday, and then again yesterday. This should be main channel content! Oh, and thankfully Binder got Emma to stop calling you a Twitch streamer.

[@draunt7]

As an anti-imperialist, I actually want the USA to run guns down to Mexico and Myanmar in order to help the locals resist the cartels/militaryjuntacoup.

[@danielshepard2315]

Should Russia/China give Palestinians rocket launchers, tanks and military training so they can more effectively kill IDF soldiers? Or arm Iraqi insurgencies to fight US soldiers?

[@mookiestewart3776]

Or you know we could just stop our drug war. Also it’s a bad comparison , if panama invaded Mexico we would be morally justified giving Mexico weapons period

[@ravedubin3983]

@@mookiestewart3776 Look at what the Cartels are doing with avocados ending the war on drugs is great but it’s not the end.

[@joshuafreeman3609]

“Lefty’s watch pro wrestling” Finally, someone understands me

[@themightymcb7310]

Binder is good people. Glad you could get him on, Vaush.

[@torgon2711]

How our nazi vaush couldnt

[@jidk6565]

But He agreed with this earlier?

[@krillin6]

I didn't know how bad their opinions were. This is so sad to see...

[@torgon2711]

Opinion of nazi vaush u mean?

[@stevebobjd4751]

This goes into my top 10 favorite Vaush videos. You absolutely eviscerated the vacuous, dumb arguments in favor of appeasement.

[@briano9397]

Bro this is why I love Vaush, the only person in all online foreign policy discourse who is willing to say multi polarity is bad

[@jloiben12]

41:40 This is the “I am going to make fun of these pro-Putin, pro-genocide, pro-ethnic cleansing, pro-fascist, people but they are my coworkers so I need to cya myself” comment

[@talimn]

Excellent convo, glad to hear Matt isn’t falling for the “let’s not help Ukraine because the west is bad” bullshit. This is not a complicated situation, one side invaded the other - case closed.

[@mysticonthehill]

When you principally refuse to aid your side often you make the fight all that unequal. That is essentially what happened in a Spanish Civil War. Germany and Italy aided Franco while the other powers inhibited the Republican cause expect Russia who decided to stab them in the back inside. All of which actually works against peace as it emboldens the aggressor who faces un united opposition. This isn't that tough to connect the dots. Too make leftist don't engage in internationalism. How can the US be an advocate for peace if they desert all their friends. Why dispose of them to extend an olive branch to curry favor with to most expansionistic, self interested regimes? It makes no logical or historical sense. They might know their own national history well but not the worlds which renders them out of their depth on anything of international significance.

[@leoplumer2544]

Jesus Christ, all four knew next to nothing in terms of the actual dynamics of the situation. Not even saying that as a sort of indirect attack on them having the Wrong Opinion; it's just blatantly obvious that they aren't well read on this issue regardless of where they stand. It's legit like drunk-freshman-in-dorm-level of debate.

[@Siberius-]

Wasn't expecting him to be this god damn based. Crushing every point he makes.

[@kayak1984]

This was great criticism by vaush. I can't believe MR doesn't understand the situation.

[@officernealy]

Incredible, those 3 have spent so much time saying words yet none of it meant anything.

[@LEEboneisDaMan]

Honestly Sam basically says a lot of the same things. Now that the situation has somewhat stabilized, he’s also not for giving them this much aid no strings attached.

[@brandonellis8111]

Facts

[@danielshepard2315]

Sam and Michael Brooks both are strongly anti NATO and think NATO shouldn't of existed after the cold war. This is a pretty standard leftist position for people who weren't born yesterday and lose their minds every time the US gets involved in another war.

[@stevenclark5173]

I don't see how you can say a full on counteroffensive is stabilized.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

It feels really bad to me and makes me wonder how you can call yourself a leftist if you think “no strings attached” must include the forced capitalization to Russian demands because forcing the Ukraine to accept Russian terms and negations seems very bad faith when we know that Russia will push for total control of all regions they've annexed and taken by armed force they will most likely demand the Ukrainians stand down all military defense (they did this already) and a unch of other terms so i would ask Sam and his friends how many Ukrainians they are-willing or believe need to be sold into Russian slavery and forced under Russian boots (the side that openly flaunts how they should nuke villages for defying them)

[@PrinnyWesker]

This was great. Longtime MR fan and am really glad to hear Binder and Vaush have such an amicable conversation. I think I've just been conditioned to assume every other content creator hates him unless otherwise specified lol

[@user-thevultureeye]

I'm only 14 minutes in, but the one dude saying that we shouldn't allow every conflict to escalate to war is driving me crazy. Russia invaded, it becomes a war when Ukraine defends itself. So is it bad that Ukraine is defending itself? Is that what he's saying? Am I having a stroke?

[@danielshepard2315]

You realize that when the US supported a coup to overthrow the government in 2014 it started a civil war in Ukraine?

[@dallasmoorenumberone]

If czechoslovakia had been allowed to fight germany would have lost right there. It would have literally stopped ww2 before it happened. The munich pact gave hitler the arms and armor he needed to continue his facist push into the rest of europe.

[@jansamohyl7983]

As a Czech, this is false. We would be conquered quickly like Poland was, CS was relying on static defenses and help from France. CS had good industry in the 20s but the idea we could easily defend against Germany is a nationalistic exaggeration. I think the Munich agreement was morally wrong because it was a betrayal, but it is very unclear whether it ultimately caused bigger loss of life (by forcing CS to capitalute and not let us fight).

[@dallasmoorenumberone]

@@jansamohyl7983 i could be mistaken but didnt czech have one of the largest stockpiles of arms and an incredible amount of tanks in europe?

[@jansamohyl7983]

@@dallasmoorenumberone Never heard of that, but I am not an expert. I think if we did have a chance then it should have been a consideration, and I am surprised that they would just give up our territory if they suspected there is so many guns and tanks on it. We did have some weapons manufacturers, though, but I have doubts whether it could be considered a significant factor in the war.

[@dallasmoorenumberone]

@@jansamohyl7983 Czechoslovakia had fielded a modern army of 35 divisions and was a major manufacturer of machine guns, tanks, and artillery, most of them assembled in the Škoda factory in Plzeň. Many Czech factories continued to produce Czech designs until converted to German designs. Czechoslovakia also had other major manufacturing companies. Entire steel and chemical factories were moved from Czechoslovakia and reassembled in Linz (which incidentally remains a heavily industrialized area of Austria). In a speech delivered in the Reichstag, Hitler stressed the military importance of occupation, noting that by occupying Czechoslovakia, Germany gained 2,175 field cannons, 469 tanks, 500 anti-aircraft artillery pieces, 43,000 machine guns, 1,090,000 military rifles, 114,000 pistols, about a billion rounds of ammunition and three million anti-aircraft shells. This amount of weaponry would be sufficient to arm about half of the then Wehrmacht.[33] Czechoslovak weaponry later played a major part in the German conquests of Poland (1939) and France (1940)-countries that had pressured Czechoslovakia's surrender to Germany in 1938 source: Kam zmizel zlatý poklad republiky