Wet to Dry within 18 Hrs # 193

[@annetteackley9048]

I am writing on behalf of Tom and I. Tom's Dad just passed away and he has been busy doing other things. What a great idea on the dehydrator , Tom is ordering one tonight. Thank you for using our paste and the shout out for subscribing to our channel. We hope to show more turnings in the near future. Your support is greatly appreciated. We always enjoy your videos, always learn something new from you.

[@keithkimsten5111]

Aaaaah yes... Wisdom comes from experience and age... Once again we learn from those who have been there did that... Thank you.

[@johnd7056]

I've been using my dehydrator since watching this video. Works awesome! I rough turn the bowl, dehydrate it, then finish turning. Thanks so much!

[@brianseckman9367]

Thanks Larry my dehydrator came today and I put 3 oak bowls in averaging 26% moisture content for 8 hrs and it brought them down to a consistent 10 %. No more microwaving over and over. This is great.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

10 is a little to high. About 4 more hours should get it. It works for sure, thanks, Larry

[@cathysoldan6540]

Great idea. I have a dehyrater that I haven't used it for years. I will repurpose it for my woodshop! Thankyou

[@JOHNSmith-pn6fj]

Beautiful bowl, And that is a great idea to use a Dehydrator to dry out green or wet wood....Thank you for sharing that idea.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks John, I've been using it for some time now, and it works well. The only drawback is the size. Its max inside is 12". I think they make them up to 18". Of course, you pay for it. Take care, Larry

[@larryking606]

Hello Larry , Larry here ! That is such a great idea ! And I am saying , why the heck , I didn't think of that ?????? I am really glad I found your sight ! This will be a blessing, for me to get more wood dry enough to turn with out waiting for a couple of years ! Thank you Sir Take Care and Be Safe

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Yes, they work great. I only wish I had bought a larger one. I can only put a 12' bowl in mine and I like turning large projects. You take care, Larry

[@rosswalker8256]

What a lovely calm, precise and informative video, just starting out in wood turning Gentlemen like you give to much to us new starters, you are kind to take the time. The piece is lovely. (you reached south London)

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Sorry about not getting to you sooner. For some reason sometimes the comments get stuck in traffic. Anyway, thanks a lot, Larry

[@randymagee735]

All your videos are good. This is a great idea. What is the brand name of the dehydrater?

[@andychapman5279]

Great video i shall be buying one of these very soon to dry my spalted Beech take care all the best from Bognor Regis West Sussex UK

[@ianmckinnon7687]

Thanks so much for your innovative drying idea ... after hurricane Sally I have some nice pieces of wood to work with and your idea may be the exact way for me to cut off a chunk and go "whittlen" in my "turnen" machine! Thanks again!

[@kenwestlake7461]

I am new at turning I really appreciate your tip on drying that locust bowl very nice work thank you for sharing.I am looking forward to seeing your next video.

[@hypnoraythompson5824]

Nice project my friend, I had to smile when you used the lazer machine. Wasnt expecting that.

[@carolriley8472]

This bowl is simply stunning! I love the coloring and the grain of the Homey Locust!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Honey locus is really pretty wood, I wish it wasn't so hard. Thanks, Larry

[@randy9293]

I like the dehydrator I've dealt. It turned out a very good looking bold.❤

[@jackgrayson832]

I am going to try that... I m impatient also... thank you my friend...

[@TheOtherGuybo]

Great idea. Thanks for sharing. We ended up purchasing a second dehydrator for making fruit leathers, and drying tomatoes, etc. The second was a larger version with stackable trays. I think I'll whisk the other one out of the kitchen and see if I can't modify it to handle drying wood. Should be interesting.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

They sure work, Larry

[@cw5986]

Wow, this is an awesome video made by an awesome gentleman that's kind enough to share his awesome hobby skills and knowledge, as well as kind words of wisdom, such as 'call your mama!' Thank you, kind sir!

[@jonperley7304]

NICE bowl! That Honey Locust looks a lot like cherry burl would love to get my hands on some of that but here in Maine I haven't seen our heard of any yes the dehydrator works great I have and older one and cut the grid's out of it to fit bowls in it its a little slower but works great I nuke them first to get them going then into the dehydrator thanks for sharing and letting others know about this! Happy wood turnings to you from Ducklake Maine!

[@TheChecklister]

Woooooow this is really great! I actually have a dehydrator! Awesome! Thanks for this great idea! I have been searching and researching.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Well, what are you waiting for? Thanks, Larry

[@TheChecklister]

@@TheWoodWhirler So I roughed out a segment of wood with an extra 10% as a buffer for small cracks but got a fair size crack all the way through.. How thick should the segment be and should anything be applied to it before drying? Is it better to be thin?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

@@TheChecklister About 1" thick. Sometimes I seal the outside with Minwax sanding sealer. I think that helps, haven't done it enough to be sure. Thanks, Larry

[@str43bzr]

@@TheWoodWhirler What is the brand name on the dehydrator please. I am turning some bowls, pens, etc. as a fundraiser to repair/replace a damaged courthouse caused by an arsonist. Fast drying would be great.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

@@str43bzr sent you a private e-mail.

[@joandow5627]

Beautiful bowl. thank you for sharing

[@wakelywanderer12]

Very interesting. I don’t like waiting either. If this method works as well as your method for dealing with spalted bowls, it will be fantastic. Thanks for the info. Look forward to another video on the subject. Maybe Mrs. Santa will get me a dehydrator for Christmas.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Be nice to her. Thanks, Larry

[@jamesmccall7135]

What was that long thin live center you used? Seemed to give you lots of clearance when roughing out. Thanks.

[@martineastburn3679]

Howdy, 35 years ago I used a big microwave and the wood got plastic like. I could shape it with gloves and have an oval bowl. Sanding and polishing was done by hand. A friend caught his on fire because he kept pressing the cook button but that was turned off. Bless you for thinking for us that is a good tip!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

I just put a wet cherry bowl in, check next video. Thanks, Larry

[@jeffrall6863]

Sir , Awesome idea and Excellent work. Thank you I'm heading to Amazon right now.

[@kcglide]

Why didn't I think of that? I have our old toaster oven and have used it for pine cones and small blanks. Question? Does a hydrator cause less cracking in the bowl blanks VS an oven, like a toaster oven?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Yeah, I think so. It has better control of airflow than a toaster oven and probably a lower setting. Low and slow will give you less cracking. Take care, Larry

[@cortlandhunt4721]

Interesting idea Larry.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thank you, Larry

[@kenpederson7047]

Thanks for the tip, so now I have another use for the dehydrator. I have some green oak and also some Madrone that cracks very easy. I will be giving this a try. Your video was nicely done.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks, Ken, it has worked for me.Take care, Larry

[@tomasarguinzoni9022]

Thank you for sharing a great info, beautiful bowl. Good job my friend 🤝

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks Tom, Larry

[@robbymunson8591]

Your a genuine genius! Love your old school ways. Love learning from old timers. You have my respect sir. Wish I could spend a day with you I'd learn a lot.

[@robbymunson8591]

I ordered that dehydration thing as soon as I watched this. Never thought about that. Makes sense

[@PhilAndersonShadyAcresWoodshop]

Pretty slick idea with the dehydrator, Larry. Nice lookin' wood even if it was really hard to work. Good job! Phil

[@TheWoodWhirler]

It was different, that's for sure. Thanks Phil, Larry

[@tlgrimmy]

Enjoyed your video and am going to give this a try! Seems easier on wood than the microwave idea. I wish you were my neighbor, friend! You've got a kind way about you and I'm inspired to get back to turnin'!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Yeah, with micro you have to be constantly recycling it. Take care, Larry

[@melissajohnson4289]

Im so glad you shared this trick. I already have a dehydrator too

[@saulmikaliukas5287]

Anyone know the manufacturer or brand name etc of the dehydrator?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Magic Mills, Larry

[@ThePapa1947]

I sure could hear how much harder it was after you dried it. For a minute I thought you was turning concrete...lol Very pretty bowl and a great tip on a way to dry the wood. Shoot we had a food dehydrator years ago and then got rid of it. That will teach me to get rid of things. Sure seems better than messing with a microwave which I have never done and wont now! Great video Larry Take care. Gary

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Aren't you glad I wasn't playing music? Felt like concrete to me too. Thanks Gary, Larry

[@ThePapa1947]

Yes Larry I am happy you have a music free zone. I tell I have watched a few lately that about blew my ear drums out. And one has already been blown out once. Take care buddy and one of these videos I may have a special treat just for you...lol Gary

[@billtalkington664]

Thanks for the tips

[@BurntMoney]

wondering if this will work for drying wood slices so as sthough they dont check\crack .......Thoughts?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Some wood is going to crack no matter what. It all depends on the type of wood and how wet it is. I found the longer you dry it and the less heat you use the less chance of cracking. Thanks for asking and take care, Larry

[@dewaynecope4105]

I like the idea, but does it not dry it too fast, causing cracks?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

No, it doesn't seem to. The low setting is 95 degrees, which works fine. Take care, Larry

[@johnnyspropshop]

Nice color on the bowl, another great technique to use. Thanks for sharing, keep em Whirling Larry.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Hey John, someone asked my where and why I named the Beaver the Beaver. I gave you credit, but for the life of me I couldn't remember you last name, sorry. Thanks and take care, Larry

[@johnnyspropshop]

@@TheWoodWhirler no problem. Honored that you used the name and love the tool. I like the little beaver I lasered on my handle.

[@DelsWoodTurning]

I really like this video. I have watched it several times. What model of dehydrator do you have?? Thanks

[@TheWoodWhirler]

It's Magic Mills, got it off Amazon for $129. I would not buy it again. I would get a bigger one. Mine is limited to a 12" bowl. They make bigger ones. Try this one. Elechomes 8-Tray Food Dehydrator Machine, It's on Amazon for $149.

[@DelsWoodTurning]

@@TheWoodWhirler thanks. I am looking to get one. I have a small lathe and 12" is bigger than I can turn. I can go as big as 10". I think I saw that one on Amazon. I tried to order one from eBay but not sure the status of that one. eBay removed the seller but their web site says that it has shipped. Oh well that is life. $129. is more than I wanted to spend anyway. Thanks again for your reply.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

@@DelsWoodTurning I saw them on Amazon for $89. Just search dehydrators, you will find them.

[@DelsWoodTurning]

@@TheWoodWhirler Thanks

[@craighill1606]

great turn. also great thinking outside the box.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

I never stay in a box. Thanks, Larry

[@joetucker3257]

Headed your way after lunch. Got a pan to return! :) OK, we sure hit a home run with that Honey Locust find. I have found it to be very stable. It does wonk a bit though but I've not had any cracks open up in it. What I want to see you try is Cherry. It has much stronger internal stress and cracks so darn easily if when you think we dried it properly. So, turn a 6" common wet Cherry bowl, and let's see what happens in the dehydrator. OK? If the Cherry stays stable and does not crack apart after it is finished turned down thin, I'll buy a dehydrator and figure out where to put it in my otherwise crowded shop. :)

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Rough turn a cherry bowl, bring it over and we will try. Thanks Joe, Larry

[@hi_wifi_guy]

Really helpful, great info. Thanks very much for posting.

[@chetnash5991]

What a great idea! Thank you

[@billhrn4271]

Thanks for the great tip.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks, Larry

[@jamesmorrison3665]

ordered and recived same dehydrater. still in box (2 days) . If it works great, if it doesn't I like dried food (jerky)

[@tsmith9825]

I have ordered a dehydrator sure hope it works for me. Thanks Larry nice work

[@josephwise485]

What kind and where are you getting it, thanks.

[@tsmith9825]

@@josephwise485not sure the brand it came in yesterday. I haven't had a chance to open it yet will co that this morning and let you know. Bought it from Amazon

[@josephwise485]

@@tsmith9825 Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you.

[@tsmith9825]

chefman 6 tack with the slide down door

[@josephwise485]

@@tsmith9825 Would appreciate you letting me know how it works, once you try it. Thanks.

[@Lee-qp6gf]

Another nice turn, Larry. Good thinking on the drying. That would be good drying pine cones. I often cast pine cones in my mills and have a problem with moisture and resin. Called Mom, Cheers, Lee

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Good for you Lee, you only have one. Thanks, Larry

[@jlyssagraywolf7503]

Thanks for sharing

[@rnsb6977]

Any have time and temperature settings to try first thanks in advance

[@TheWoodWhirler]

High time, low temperature. Start there and work your way to less time and higher temp. Take care, Larry

[@hamedjabarian1155]

Thanks for great trick, i have a very prime question though. What happens if I turn a very fresh cut wet wood and immediately coat and varnish it , if so I preserved the natural moisture inside the wood and this is not necessary to be concern about how to dry it. Am I correct?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

You need to dry it somehow. It will eventually warp or crack or both. Wood moves even after dry sometimes. Thanks, Larry

[@hamedjabarian1155]

The Wood Whirler thank you

[@charlesdowrick2075]

Thanks FOR THE VERY INFORMATIVE POST.

[@GOINGWILD-ok3rz]

Genius idea

[@fmboss429]

Awesome, just flat out Awesome! Great channel

[@MrGidupngo]

Awsome! Thank you.

[@bricofleur1768]

What temperature did you set your dehydrator to? Thanks

[@TheWoodWhirler]

That depends on a lot of factors. Normally if I'm not in a hurry and don't want cracks, I set it at 95F for at least 24 hours.

[@rbdunn]

Thanks for the drying lesson Larry. Sharp looking bowl!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thank you Russ, Larry

[@SteveC38]

Very good idea! Nice bowl too!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thank you Steve, Larry

[@brianmclaughlin2621]

Nice job Larry it has turned out lovely I’ve just had a look on amazon and it’s on sale and on its way I’ve had timber in my garage for two years and it’s still at 19% it has been so damp in Scotland over the last year. Iv just got some oak that’s off the scale on my meatier it will be going in the oven thanks for the tip keep up the good work 👌👌

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Good deal, and it works. Thanks, Larry

[@camelcompany9252]

Larry, Excellent video and information in this video! I am going to order a dehydrator right now. I had tried a microwave but did not care for the results at all.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Microwave is a pain in the butt and it takes many times to get anything dry. Dehydrator will work for you my friend. Thanks and take care, Larry

[@mehmetkondakc431]

hı there ıs somethıng I was wonderıng. What degree do you use to warm the wood

[@TheWoodWhirler]

95F. That is as low as it will go. Now if I want cracks, which I do sometimes if I am pouring epoxy, I will bump it up to about 180. Thanks for asking, Larry

[@michaelshort2200]

I really love all the videos you post, it is all super interesting and beautiful creations

[@TheWoodWhirler]

thank you Michael, Larry

[@jimnugent1143]

Great idea! I think I need one of those! Thanks, Larry!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

You do!!! Larry

[@ThePeaksmillboy]

Nice, great video

[@justinstark2370]

Nicely done.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thank you Justin, Larry

[@richardarguelles194]

Very very nice bowl I love the way it looked even though it was a little Punky it’s still looks very nice Keep doing what you’re doing I love what you’re doing I love watching your videos thank you God bless

[@paulking892]

SIR I ENJOY YOUR VIDEOS ALOT BUT MY QUESTION IS DO YOU KNOW WHERE I MIGHT GET A IRISH GRIND 5/8 INCH BOWL GAUGE OR DO YOU HAVE AND OLD ONE YOU MIGHT DONATE. I AM NOT GOOD AT THE GRINDER AND HAVE MESSED UP SEVERAL GAUGES. THANKS FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN PROVIDE. PAUL

[@TheWoodWhirler]

No, I don't. Sounds to me like you need to switch to carbides. Very little or no sharpening will be needed. I can do anything and faster than I could with a gouge. Take care, Larry

[@DrPhilDeardorff]

Great job! That turned out exceptionally well! Thank you for posting.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

You are welcome, Larry

[@AllenOxendine]

Turned out nice, thanks for sharing

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks, Larry

[@glen3257]

thank you for sharing.I just got my lathe today and have not turned since high school (a very long time ago as today I turn 50). Here in south Dakota I have elm, and cotton wood mostly. I am wanting to find out the best way to get logs to turn, whether a bowl or vase. I love the natural form from this turning rather than a blank. Do you have any advice to help me get started on my first projects?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

I learned by watching You Tube, never had a lesson. Just search for "beginning wood turning". There is a ton of videos. Now take them with a grain of salt, there is some bad info out there. I would start with carbides. Not saying they are easier, but if you go traditional, then you got to have a grinder, sharpening jigs and such. A big investment and you might not like it. Then what? With carbides all you need is a diamond card for sharpening. If I can help, let me know. Thanks, Larry

[@daviddejong187]

@@TheWoodWhirler Agreed! If carbide and HSS arrived on the scene at the same time only carbide would remain today

[@TheWoodWhirler]

@@daviddejong187 That's entirely possible.

[@mpart_woodlathe-stuff]

Thanks for trying, and sharing with us the dehydrator method Larry 👍 Keep us posted when you do more. I'd'a thought dehydrators would have a fan to circulate the air, but guess not; I suppose you're suppose to dry stuff in thin layers. Nice looking bowl too 😃 -Mike p.s. You should us it to dry foods too. Make some snacks !!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Miine does, all better ones do. Get what you pay for, I guess. You can always cut the center of the trays out. The heat is what moves the air, convection. Thanks, Larry

[@garymaynard7562]

Another great piece of art! Happy Thanksgiving, Larry, to you and your family...

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks Gary, Larry

[@bossplaier]

Cool video

[@tompuskar4426]

Great idea! I'll be ordering one as a Christmas present from me to me! Nice shine on the finish. I use Ack's products but can't seem to get that level of shine. Maybe more coats of sealer before the sanding paste. Love your videos--keep em comin!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

I usually put 4 to 5 coats on before. Try steel wool and scotchpad. Also, you gotta whirl it really fast on the last shine. Thanks and take care, Larry

[@bricofleur1768]

Oops, I watched the video twice to find out you set it to 165°F. Will you change temperature next time? Thanks.

[@tatkinsful]

Great job and awesome idea !

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks Tony, Larry

[@kenwiggins5088]

Wow just always thought it would be to fast .... Have you tried other woods ? Works better than the $50 gallon stuff I bought soaked for 7 days and came close to cracking in half. Thanks for the tip

[@TheWoodWhirler]

No, that was my first shot, but is now my go to method. Thanks, Larry

[@garydawson5607]

Hey Larry, where do you get replacement carbide inserts for your beaver?

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Well, I really very seldom have to replace one, just sharpen them. Try, www.eddiecastelin.com/ Thanks, Larry

[@bryanmccabe3632]

i like the beaver but i dont think i can aford one and i am not as aggresive as you ,thanks, BM, aka,woodbutcher

[@TheWoodWhirler]

The Beaver is better on large turnings. Thanks, Larry

[@ournovascotiaadventure1619]

I dried one in the oven... didn't go over well with the woman lol. Might have to get one of them for the garage. Nice looking bowl 👍

[@TheWoodWhirler]

You are suppossed to do it when she's gone, then say "what smell?". Thanks, Larry

[@trueitbycjtruitt9546]

Great tip and wow that worked really good thank you for sharing this with us . Bowl turned out nice 👊😎🤙🍻

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks, Larry

[@mmfenske1]

Hi Larry, Another great video, Thanks. You mentioned about the wood becoming hard and I was wondering if it's "harder" than if it had air dried naturally vs accelerated with the dehydrator. I guess we all know green wood turns easier than dry wood but does the dehydrator make the "dry wood" even harder to turn than if it were slow dried in a paper bag with wet chips etc? Please advise. Thanks, Myles

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Beats me, I've never dried one in a paper bag. I would think it wouldn't make a difference, dry is dry. But I will tell you, it's a bunch harder dry and tradidtional tools would have a hard time unless you sharpen them every 2 minutes. Thanks and take care, Larry

[@garthkeck2003]

Thats a great idea. I'm not one to wait myself Thank you

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Lot of impatient people in this world, like me. Thanks, Larry

[@johnultimate1161]

Nice job. Can you tell us about the laser engraver?? Thanks.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Checkk here, Thanks, Larry kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnTdqWWDf5J2qbM

[@robinbest4786]

Robin Best. Hi, Whirler. What make is your dehydrator? I'm in France and am being led the usual dance when hunting for a machine here. Can you help ? Thanks in advance - and keep whirling !!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

It's a Magic Mill, I got it off Amazon. It was $129.95 US. Thanks, Larry

[@robinbest4786]

@@TheWoodWhirler Robin Best - Oops, it's nearly a hundred bucks delivery to France plus fifty bucks import duty, so . . . But thanks for yr rapid reply. Keep on whirling . . . !!

[@bobhorton9849]

Thank you sir! I wish I had seen this a month ago.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

What part did you wish you had seen? Thanks, Larry

[@bobhorton9849]

@@TheWoodWhirler I've been looking for a way to dry wood for a long time. However, I learned a lot from the WHOLE video. I'm glad to be a subscriber. Looking forward to more!

[@lukaspotgieter7363]

Very interresting.Thank you for sharing this.

[@williampeak8851]

First time watching your videos,I love it!did you make your tool yourself or did you buy it?it seems to be working well!

[@sheilamaclean968]

so that's a wood - turnin' machine - I'll be darned! [I love that accent]

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Not sure I know what you mean. I love my accent too, nice and slow. Thanks and take care, Larry

[@mountainviewturning5319]

Great ideal going have to get one

[@TheWoodWhirler]

You should. Thanks, Larry

[@07021584]

Great video Larry thanks!!I have a lot of green wood and dont know how to work it and you gave me the answer!!I would like to ask you what is the operation temperature?

[@howarddewitt5536]

Nice job, looks awesome! Just curious, what kind of laser cutter/burner do you use? Thanks!!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks, Larry. Check this link and it will answer your question. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnTdqWWDf5J2qbM

[@georgebrill3072]

Nice job on the bowl and a great idea for the dehydrator. What laser did you use to engrave your the bottom of your bowl. Happy Thanksgiving.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Here's a video I made on it a while back. Thanks, Larry kzbin.info/www/bejne/rnTdqWWDf5J2qbM

[@jeanlong4285]

Very nice 👍👍

[@spindlesworkshop9744]

What a great idea! Im going to look into that👌👍 Thanks

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Alright, thanks, Larry

[@TorbayTimberTwirler]

Just started watching your video's, very informative and educational and some beautiful turnings. Subbed.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks, Larry

[@wagWAGart]

thank you larry fine info great channel

[@TheWoodWhirler]

You are welcome my friend, and thank you, Larry

[@vickym9221]

Is this a fire hazard? I'd love to try it but I'm scared!

[@TheWoodWhirler]

I don't understand, how could it be a fire hazard?

[@donaldtrabeaux1305]

Absolutely stunning bowl Mr. Larry you have created a stunning masterpiece take care my friend god bless and Happy Thanksgiving 🦃🍁🍽 to and your family

[@TheWoodWhirler]

Thanks Don, Larry

[@tomjoseph4397]

What was the name of the paste on your green scotch pad? Great work.

[@TheWoodWhirler]

That's Ack's wood paste. You can get it at ackswoodpaste.com and use my code woodwhirler10. It's $28 minus 10% plus $8 shipping. It's good stuff and really works. I get nothing from them other than some paste as I need it. Thanks, Larry