What Are The Best Pokemon In VGC Little Cup?

[@chescokun]

Is there an official ladder for this? Or this is just ran on discords by fans and such?

[@oLivSama]

There is a nat dex version run by fans I help with the format even as of right now. It's currently in beta there's gonna be more info soon I'll probably make a p2 when that format officially develops a bit more because it's so different but still very fun!! Here's a link if you wanna join! ytube.io/3w0v

[@Arne_bishop]

I think a hypothetical Little Cup VGC has the potential to fix a big problem I have with the current state of VGC: How fast the matches are. As a certified stall enjoyer who still cries over Toxapex’s nerf in bed while coddling his Shuckle body pillow, it brings me nothing but pain to see how most matches have single-digit turn counts. This is not how Arceus intended we play. Matches are supposed to go on until one person has to leave, letting the other person win the match by default; the 1,000 turn limit on Showdown should be a goal; at least half of the Pokémon in any given match should run out of PP; Blissey should have a 135 Defense stat as well; the Tele vs ABR match should look like two paragons of hyper-offense facing off in a climatic and fast-pace match. So, how do we fix that? It’s simple, the Pokémon allowed in this LC version of VGC should have the same attacking stats as if they were level five, but the defensive stats of their level 100 counterparts. Think Grookey is a safe counter to Basculin? Try a possible 48-hit-KO with Wood Hammer. Don’t worry, Basculion can only guaranteed 304-hit-KO Grookey in return. This would, quite honestly, be the best metagame ever created. All the other formats, official and unofficial, would cease to be played, as there would be no point in playing anything other than Peak Stall: The Metagame. We will finally have created a format where we can play as Lord Arceus intended, no longer tempted by the unholy hyper-offense spouted by acolytes of Giratina.

[@oLivSama]

LC VGC would be pretty close to like the 2017 format during its like p2 steela era also that sounds evil LOL games would always go to timer or pp running out

[@Lampue776]

And then a pokemon with regenerator pops in and the match lasts 10000000 turns

[@bobthehandyman3650]

Same I hate the official formats, I wish I could play ranked 6v6 single and double, and the every pokemon needs to have a diff item is paradoxically a diversity killer

[@binarycat1237]

​@@Lampue776or leppa berry recycle recover

[@omarmoi6752]

If FalseSwipeGaming taught me anything about Little Cup, Mienfoo and Skill Link Aipom with Tailslap were menaces to be feared

[@oLivSama]

Honestly yeah

[@davidwindsor2579]

Looking forward to bringing Cosmog once restricted mons are allowed

[@oLivSama]

Nebby will bring home that worlds bag

[@daofficerofthenoodles7504]

Fr nebby is a meta defining threat

[@PKshockwave]

Hmm, what about Teddiursa? I know he's not super fast, but i figure a toxic orb quick feet with facade hits miserably hard. Also solosis for Trick room sweeping?

[@oLivSama]

Solosis was meant to be in niche that was an oversight, teddiursa just got outclassed but if it was like with smogon vgc rules in mind like sneasel scythers etc banned it'd be usable

[@jacobbrown9894]

Amoongus and Grookey being top tier without even having the "were originally made to be the top level before getting evolutions later" distinction is pretty impressive

[@oLivSama]

Their kits are so invaluable and they're tailored to be both obnoxiously unique and also they're just able to fit in such a versatile set of comps tbh

[@BarrettC9]

I love this. What a fantastic example of the evolution of VGC content on KZbin. The more I see if this type of thing, the bigger I know VGC is becoming. Great video too, I love speculating about hypothetical formats. I’ve thought a lot about the multibattle format and how unique that is

[@oLivSama]

Glad you enjoyed the video! I agree this type of content is really fun both to watch and make, it opens the door a lot further for the community and makes people have to think! Also multibattle sounds very fun tbh

[@arafzaman760]

As a LC player I can say you put munchlax lower Munchlax fell off in LC (singles)as the power level increased but in VGC redirection and trick room is common It will be by far the best trick room sweeper in the game,with redirection and Eviolite it will be able to set up belly drum

[@oLivSama]

If this was like a similar banlist to LC it'd be an A/S tier but it'll be difficult to justify with basculin sneasels etc

[@wEakling1918]

@@oLivSamaI’d be curious if having the Pokémon banned in normal LC on a restricted list, and having it be like reg g where you get use one, would help with help with that

[@oLivSama]

Even in a format like that munch would go crazy, but in a free lc format it's pretty average

[@dvdv4270]

My brain wants to say that girafarig would be good (especially cuz smogon banned it)but at the same time it doesn’t get armor tail which is a shame.

[@oLivSama]

It's spore immunity will give it some semblance of usability

[@Greedy_eb]

Little Cup player, this is a unique video! Doubles LC does exist with its similar Smogon tiering so it was cool to see the theory mon-ing on things banned in that tier like Murkrow, Duraludon, and Sneasels. A question I had was do you think the level cap be 5 or 50, since this can limit what mons get access to moves? An example that you brought up would be Maus that can’t learn population bomb in Little Cup, but I’d assume can with the higher levels allowed.

[@oLivSama]

So the fan format tours have ran at level 50, since modern vgc has always done 50 I can't see that changing, hence why the small community that's dabbled in vgc lc formats pre dlcs rated tandemaus as a top tier

[@evansimmonds15]

I play in a VGC draft league with some friends, and we played a LC season! I had Grookey and can confirm that Grookey goes incredibly hard!!! One I think you left out was Venonat. I also used Venonat and it functioned very similarly to Foongus, but was faster so it functioned well under tailwind (the Sneasels where both banded however it can still outpace them with the right investment). It is missing regenerator/pollen puff, so it likely wouldn't be as popular. That being said, I think the option for fast sleep powders while still filling that redirection role would earn it usage!

[@oLivSama]

Wasn't sure how venonat would be without Pollen Puff but cool to see it's still usable, thanks for providing some first hand experience!!!

[@mukatte4755]

Duraludon, Girafarig and Dunsceparce being there by defaulr

[@oLivSama]

All 3 decent idt any make top 5

[@osamaalk3477]

​@@oLivSamaduraludon has essentially a restricted legendary stats compared to 90% of the tier and phenomenal defensive typing that synergies with grookey he'd be top 5 for sure as for the other two they would be at least top 10 because they would be strong but have some counter play against them

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

@@osamaalk3477*banned

[@daofficerofthenoodles7504]

@@Aaa-vp6ugit was allowed in 1 tournament as a joke but it was basically a boss fight

[@MaybeSableye]

​@@Aaa-vp6ug it probably wouldnt be banned in an official Lc Vgc since Vgc doesn't ever ban things. I feel a lot of teams would use Duraludon due to it's amazing stats and access to eviolite to buff it's poor special defense

[@indigo1868]

i like seeing cranidos on there, im guessing it's usable bc it's attack is nuts for little cup and it's speed is much more manageable with everything else being such a low power level

[@oLivSama]

Yea its technically I believe the strongest mon in the format or at minimum it's close, I forget if like meditite outclassed

[@indigo1868]

@@oLivSama cranidos hits 194 whereas meditite hits 101 x 2 which is 202 so meditite hits slightly harder but cranidos does have sheer force so crandios might hit harder with certain moves but in terms of the actual attack stat, meditite takes the cake

[@DoctorFalchion]

​​​​@@indigo1868Also worth mentioning Water Bubble Dewpider, which also has double power with 40 base (both Atk and Sp. Atk), but only for water moves. However, these moves also benefit from rain. . .

[@sham_noway]

id love to play Little Cup VGC i hope it can be made as a fanmade format

[@oLivSama]

I'd love it asw it'd be so fun

[@brebutthecoolone]

Curious why toedscool wasn’t at least usable. In singles LC it’s one of the most used and it gets a lot of really good moves (Spore, Rage powder, Taunt, knock off, trick room, Etc) What made it niche?

[@oLivSama]

It's so frail it'll be hard to justify despite its great role compression, and most top mons bully it

[@AttmozGlaishur]

What about incineroar?

[@oLivSama]

Well obv it'd be #1

[@raeidmorad8093]

​@@oLivSamamurkrow gonna be in every Team im just gonna say that

[@theimprovedbore550]

honestly i've been wanting to try out a format like this for a while, i hope someone tries to organize something like it sometime

[@oLivSama]

I see tours on twitter sporadically for it fwiw

[@theimprovedbore550]

@@oLivSama oh word? ig i should look harder lol

[@daofficerofthenoodles7504]

You could try it in pokemon showdown

[@erwin791]

hi you might know this but in showdown there is a doubles lc format already. granted, it’s at level 5 (like lc), with 6 mons, broken stuff banned and no item clause, but im sure if you take a look at its viability ranking it will give you a better idea of what could be legal in vgc lc than pure theorymonning. and in case you didnt know, now you do and you can play it!

[@ichmagbratwurst4999]

3:58 I'm 99.99% sure you would not lose adaptability, unless you meant for Tera Ghost Last Respects.

[@oLivSama]

I meant for Tera Grass to avoid spore hence why you go Goggles with Tera for water

[@ichmagbratwurst4999]

@@oLivSama Well, you said you didn't want Tera Grass because you'd loose Adaptability. What I meant is that you do not loose the adaptability boost unless you meant the one you would have gotten if you would otherwise go for Tera Ghost Last Respects.

[@oLivSama]

Adaptability only boosts the literal type, so like Water goes from 2x to 1.5 if you Tera into a not water Tera. So you'd weaken your water STAB while also not benefitting offensively from the alternate Tera anyway, so you may as well go Goggles Tera water because you'd hit as hard as defensive tera with band for any water STAB, but you wouldn't be choice locked. Last Respects will massacre anyway so it doesn't need the Tera ghost

[@AmirMeah]

why did grookey have av? maybe if eviolite is used already because it almost always would be, but if it isn't then you use it so in your example of set you should have showed eviolite.

[@Megastar54]

Snubbull is actually pure fairy and not part normal type

[@oLivSama]

Double checked with my editor he said our auto slides made this and grookey part normal somehow. Unsure why my code broke but it happens just an oversight

[@samuelegaione3953]

Scyther and Duraludon are banned form LC singles format for a reason: they're far to strong for the power level of that tier and i don't think it would change in a Doubles format. Scyther would probably thrash anything in sight with Tera Normal Technician boosted Quick Attacks after a Swords Dance, covering Ghost and Steel with Thief (also boosted by Technician) and Close Combat. It's bulk is actually great for LC standards, and this combined with redirection, Friend Guard or Fake Out support would guarantee a lot of opportunities to set up a Swords Dance without much trouble. Similar story for Duraludon, a defensive Tera (es. Fairy or Water) and an Iron Defense Body Press set would be an impenetrable physical wall while also dishing out a lot of damage. And that's not talking about Assault Vest, Life Orb, Choice Specs or even Choice Scarf sets. Specs and Orb in particular would smash anything that doesn't resist it, and no Fairy Type wants to switch in, otherwise risking a Flash Cannon predict, being instantly disintegrated. Honestly, In a LC format those two seem potentially even more overwhelming and obnoxious than Venusaur was in Sword and Shield Series 5 (and that says a lot).

[@oLivSama]

Vgc only bans like legends so lc vgc probably allows these if it was officially ran

[@samuelegaione3953]

@@oLivSama I know, that's why i would not be interested to in this format with Scyther and Duraludon allowed, they just look too centralizing to me. On the other hand, without them it would be actually pretty cool to try.

[@pokememesy]

we need more diverse formats in vgc rn, a lc or a monotype official format would be so cool

[@melffyrabby1009]

Hey! This video inspired me to make a playermade tier adopting the Regulation G ruleset, with the LCUbers and some other LC's acting as restricted pokemon. I am currently working on the discord for it with a friend, and we have a pretty good place to advertise it once we accumulate a small playerbase. I would love it if you checked it out and shared some ideas with us!

[@melffyrabby1009]

looks like we also got a LC tuber on board with us

[@oLivSama]

Hey this sounds really cool, add me on discord let's link up its oliviasama

[@fds-rq6lz]

Yo, can I get the discord?

[@Hawkeye43725]

Great video! Whats your take on Duskull? I don't see it on your tier list although I might have missed it. Dusclops has seen vgc play in the past as a support option with trick room, will o wisp, helping hand, taunt, and some niche options like trick, imprison, or haze. Duskull has all of these options too. With 90 im both defensive stats, it is pretty tanky, further amplified by eviolite. Admittedly, it does lack damage. With 20 as both attacking stats, its only damage is coming from pain split. Ultimately might not be as good because of its damage but I'd be interested in knowing others' thoughts

[@kidclover6192]

Wait Finion!? What would it be used for in thic Lc VGC, is it just because of storm drain?

[@oLivSama]

Yea basculin alone would make it decent and you could make the safeguard tailwind sets as great HO support around foongus and basculin weaknesses.

[@gratedshtick]

With Sceptile being my favorite, I'd like to know why Treecko is in Niche.

[@oLivSama]

Treecko has a lot of cool utility such as quick guard and also it's one of the faster mons and it could maybe make grassy seed sets kinda ok. It'd be fairly low value for the tier but grassy seed in a format with only 1 viable terrain is a lot more practical to pop Unburden tbf, and Grass spam isn't awful if you throw on like hisui growlithe for checks

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

Only halfway through the video but I am very very curious about what the items rule in VGC would do in LC VGC. Since I think most Pokémon want to run evolite in LC

[@BeccaGuinn]

I'd assume it'd be no different to the current vgc item ruleset, some mons being eviolite users (even some having it as a mandatory) is not too much of a problem since you cannot run duplicate items on the same team

[@finnvanbakel5015]

You could use alolan vulpix for auraveil support

[@FlygonkingVGC]

1:48 av is near useless in the format because eviolite gives the same bulk obviously if ur already using eviolite u need av but yeah grookey gets eviolite. Also op igglybuff friend guard

[@LuxoBey]

I want to see this as a format

[@oLivSama]

Really hoping we get this for at least a reg

[@LuxoBey]

@@oLivSama Same

[@BaykanDilek]

What about scraggy , I think scraggy can have some niche uses at least.

[@binarycat1237]

pichu should be able to hold light ball but then it gains the same downside as life orb, like in smash

[@m_arto]

What about girafarig? I feel it would be good in trickroom, no?

[@awqweird]

I think uou probably have girafarig way too low for how good its stats are. I guess you're thinking if every team has scyther and sneasel those are bad matchups but i have to imagine its still 2 tiers higher.

[@awqweird]

I also think magnemite probably deserves to be on the list in like the usable tier based on a decently looking matchup spread against the top tiers with obvious weaknesses.

[@oLivSama]

So girafarig isn't awful but I think there's better TR setters of either typing, and it's just more outclassed. Sneasel and scyther hurt it a lot asw tho. Magnemite could have been niche maybe tbf but it'd be more by circumstance is all

[@awqweird]

@@oLivSama I guess I would argue I'm thinking of girafarig as bulkier ghastly and not a trick room setter.

[@awqweird]

@@oLivSama having looked at calcs more I think girafarig would be even better than I initially thought, I think you could realistically just go inner focus for fake out immunity and go specs to play like terrapagos, with tera normal hyper voice. 56% chance to ohko no bulk sneasel. Guaranteed 2hko on eviolite Scyther. I think you could easily make a team around it with mons like murkrow, foogus and mienfoo.

[@dinorasanchez70]

isnt murkrow and bascula 2 stage pokemon isnt the rule 3 stage pokemon cuz if that is the case then duraludon

[@shankhathefirst]

Why don't we have a format like this on Showdown though, I really wish we had this as a format 😔

[@oLivSama]

I would play this so much, clearly there seems to be an audience too

[@mega-red4211]

if someone were to do this would everything get set to level 50, 5, 25 or another level?

[@fds-rq6lz]

Why is duraludon not the best mon in format?

[@oLivSama]

duraludon is just a lump of stats and options like sneasels offer far more utility, better abilities, more potent dual STABs, and also pressure duraludon with ease. I think duraludon would be strong but a lot of good pokemon by chance pressure it, and it'd just be a pokemon purely relevant because its BST is obnoxious compared to even the 2nd highest option, rather than any other factors. it's essentially this format's palafin-hero but palafin at least had priority and could abuse rain

[@CacturneCommander]

what u think of cacnea? (not expecting much)

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

Imagine restricted rulesets but it just lets you use the LC Ubers Pokémon

[@doubler5318]

I feel like the best pokémon are those who can use eviolite, and mostly tanky pokémon and knock off pokémon.

[@oLivSama]

Pretty accurate

[@kidsplanet1950]

How to buff all route one bugs ! Please

[@nerdyfalco408]

Uh? Duraludon in "strong"? It's leagues better than the S tier, its bare bst + eviolite makes it able to solo any other pokemon in the tier, even in 2v1. I think it should be banned. I also have concerns with stantler, which seems kinda unkillable as a physical wall and tr setter, and maybe scyther, which seems just too strong for the tier. The other ones seem fine.

[@FGC_JohnDo]

Ah yes Grookey, My favorite Normal Type

[@daofficerofthenoodles7504]

WE BE BRINGING DURALADON TO LITTLE CUPPP 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@ANPUGaming]

Ohhh I would love a little cup

[@oLivSama]

It sounds so fun ngl

[@daofficerofthenoodles7504]

I mean there one in showdown

[@electricipea.101]

FINNEON IN USABLE WE WIN🗣🔥

[@LoriLima-x4z]

magnemite ?

[@noahfishman2142]

Murrow is banned in LC

[@AceAviations2]

Flutter Mane, Urshifu, Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu are banned from Smogon OU but legal in VGC. VGC doesn't ban Pokemon outside of restricted mons that are legal in Restricted Format.

[@oLivSama]

@AceAviations2 what ace said!

[@fluffy601]

11:00 is that your wallet

[@Hopeless_Charmdi]

Like my comment to find your wallet

[@oLivSama]

my own reply got censored twice i cant even approve it, but its a copy paste of the final section of Poison Poison for anyone curious what i tried to reply to my roommate with :(