What causes banding and rolling shutter?

[@atamanphotography]

perfectly explained! love the effects you put in appreciate the work behind it. even the flickering effect (which is very simple) takes so long to edit

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Thanks, it's a complicated topic so hopefully the effects made it easier to understand 😁

[@Цельнометаллическийразработчик]

I thought I knew enough on this topic, but I've actually learned new things and understand it much better now. I like a lot how in-depth your explanations are. Thank you and keep up the good work!

[@DaveMcKeegan]

You're welcome, glad you found it helpful

[@WendyLeyden]

best explanation of why banding happens that i've ever come across! thank you!

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Thank you Wendy ☺️

[@rickstrom9326]

Great video. Had a little panic that something was wrong with my camera this morning after doing some test shots inside and now I completely understand what was going on. Thanks so much!

[@zafariqbal-js7tn]

That's lots of graphical editing you done in this video 👏👏👏

[@vincentvanesse-photographie]

HI, why i don't have this with electronic shutter from smartphones ?

[@alexdavismittp]

By far the best breakdown & explanation I've ever seen. Thanks Dave.

[@fredrik_soder]

This is the BEST explanation I've ever heard! Thank you!

[@stillmoments4092]

Great demonstration and easily understood. Please keep up the awesome work...

[@thinkingallowed2275]

Glad you addressed this topic. The A7III banding limitations with silent shutter came as surprise and disappointment. No doubt the A9 tech will eventually trickle down to lower price gear. The global shutter is still somewhere on the horizon.

[@shadowshapers]

This was a super informative explanation. Thank you so much for making this video. I was shooting in an assembly warehouse last week under LED work bench lights and was having this problem with my stills. This is exactly the kind of explainer I needed to figure out how to keep my images from banding. Looking forward to knowing how to deal with this problem effectively the next time I encounter it.

[@רזאבקסיס-ר6ח]

Best explanation I've ever heard, and also well demonstrated!

[@NerdAffiliated]

I was shooting at a wedding, and legit thought I broke my camera. 😅. Couldn’t figure out why I had the bands! Great viseo

[@invi_carlos]

Thank you so much for this explanation. Shot video for a wedding. Massive banding issue. Not sure what I will do, but at least I know why it happened.

[@vicsdelugaphoenix]

Thanks for this explanation

[@ryanclim]

Thanks so much for the explanation. Precise and simple to understand.

[@tubeman1983]

Beautifully explained! Thanks!

[@dadgonewild381]

Thx. I've always wondered why I've never complained about e-shutters like everyone does. Your video explains why -I rarely shoot artificial light and when I do I always use incandescent lights. Outside, I shoot at 60fps which at 180 angle makes the exposure short. This issue is a big deal since I'm buying a cine cam for $$$ that still has an e-shutter -now I can buy it with confidence -thx.

[@barisdemiray]

Wonderfully explained!

[@Pyowaan]

thank you!! omg i was wondering why this was happening with only my mirrorless. was making doing concert photos really difficult

[@saloogee84]

Thanks for the very good explanation. I was going nuts after getting my new EOS RP and getting banding in shots. I ended up lowering the iso and it went away in aperture priority without realizing what was causing it.

[@twoeager]

I have the Sony A7 mk I. Should I have the e front curtain on or off if I don't want rolling shutter?

[@vikrantpv]

I had a Nikon point and shoot camera (forgot the model) nearly 15 years ago. I think my dad still has it and uses it occasionally (he still prefers his film Yashica). If I remember correctly, I have seen this effect on that camera shooting high speed subjects or even panning quickly. With using DSLRs since past 7-8 years, I completely forgot about it. I intuitively knew it was something similar to screen light flickering on camera screen. Thanks for reminding me of this phenomenon and also explaining the actual physics behind this.

[@vincr8ts]

Thank you, This is helpful and relieving.

[@circuslife888]

Thank you so much for this, Dave! I just want to ask how to you were able to add the "Screen Banding" effect in your video. Looks great. Cheers! You've got a new susbcriber.

[@rvdxpress]

Fantastic explanation!

[@MrFredsDIY]

Super explanation!

[@bobbyhill605]

Explained very well. Thanks, I had an idea but you broke it down fast and easy. thanks

[@jamskof]

When global shutters come along, would that mean we could potentially do away with nd filters? I always wondered why the sensor couldn't just calculate less light loverall, but your fantastic explanation made me realise it would end up with a similar problem.. banding, waving patterns of under and over exposed video.

[@molmik0510]

Dear Dave, do you have any experience of the banding issue with the new Nikon Z9?

[@bioasamartinez3053]

Life saver, best explanation!!!

[@milanjani]

Good info. I just bought EOS M50 and enjoying it. I wonder in case if you know if you can share, I am having banding issue shooting blue sky on EOS M50 while shooting 1080p. Do you know any workarounds? I shoot 24 fps, 1/50 shutter speed with ISO 100.

[@Hushey]

very useful thank you

[@savedradop]

deep knowledge, well articulated!!

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Thanks 😊

[@MundtStefan]

Awesome, really good explanation!

[@BruceLauderdale]

Very nicely explained mate!

[@gulsoomrc.salehee6883]

Hi Dave, Im using Sony A7riii, but during the night the shutter is very slow and it take times and shutter process very slow, can you advice please, thanks Jeff, from UK

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Hi Jeff, do you mean its slow to save the file once it has finished capturing? If so its likely due to the large file size from the RIII plus maybe a slow memory card

[@shadyninja1]

All this detailed technical details and yet one idiot has managed to give you the thumbs down. I would love to expose these people on KZbin.

[@chrisdunford2346]

Probably didn't understand what was being said

[@shadyninja1]

@@chrisdunford2346 ok. But it's not good enough reason to dislike the video post. The info this man gave was well constructed.

[@DaveMcKeegan]

You'll never please everyone, there are always some people who thumbs down videos. I've had videos downed within a minute of going live and I even had a thumb down to a video where I was giving away free tickets to photokina 🤣

[@GhostwriterNiche]

@@DaveMcKeegan hahahahaha

[@RJ-wy6cx]

While this guy can see into the future great video thank you have the a9 Mark II excellent camera

[@Opfas08]

Thank you Dave for the great examples! Simple and easy to understand :)

[@DaveMcKeegan]

You're welcome Luisa, glad you found it useful 😊

[@NameIsSakr]

Nice explanation, great job!

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Thank you 😊

[@e5churchbristol219]

Thank you so much! This was super duper helpful! I was shooting on Electronic Shutter wihout realising that was the issue! Thought I had some crazy lights issue haha

[@ruththompson684]

Thank you! This video is made so well, managed to make it all easy to understand!

[@DaveMcKeegan]

You're welcome, glad you found it useful 😊

[@lukasdiga3036]

Why are you naming flickering with banding ?

[@deltadave44]

so, the lines I see when using electronic first curtain shutter and HSS is the flickering of the speedlight?

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Yes, speedlites also pulse their power rather than a single blast of light

[@saulmirandaaliaga]

You are very good, man. Thank you for the fantastic video!

[@makimarc1]

Wooow great explanation.. SUBSCRIBED

[@thegametech513]

THIS IS REALLY HELPFUL

[@windleman1]

Great explanation thanks

[@KingRushProductions]

Thank you this worked for me !!

[@EE-pe8br]

I understand why the rolling shutter happens in electronic shutter but i dont understand why this dont happen in mechanical shutter? For example capturing with 1/8000s shutter speed the opening shutter and the closing shutter are moving at the same time with a little gap in between them. So isnt it the same as the scanning line in electronic shutter type?

[@DaveMcKeegan]

It's not really a problem with either types of shutter when the speeds are fast enough, like the A9 at fast shutter speeds doesn't suffer with rolling shutter The problem becomes more apparent at slower shutter speeds when the scene has a chance move, and the reason it doesn't become a problem with mechanical shutters is that even though the exposure time might be slower, the shutter curtain stills moves at a very high speed (the exposure time just refers to the delay between the first and second curtain) A mechanical shutter curtain I believe takes about 1/16000th of a second to travel across the sensor, so even with slower shutter speeds of 1/200th etc, there is still only a very small delay between the top of the sensor being exposed Vs the bottom

[@EE-pe8br]

@@DaveMcKeegan i understand. And what shutter type do bridge cameras have? (Sony hx400v)

[@DaveMcKeegan]

@@EE-pe8br I believe most compact & bridge cameras use an electronic shutter rather than a mechanical

[@الروحالخالدة-ظ1ب]

perfectly explained mate

[@danielluedtke6466]

This is fantastic

[@harryburnett7086]

Does any Mirrorless camera have mechanical shutter , what cameras out there Mirrorless doesn't have banding and rolling shutter , Thank you

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Yes all mirrorless cameras that's I know of have a mechanical shutter, you will only get banding and rolling shutter if you switch to electronic shutter or video Very few mirrorless are free from this, the Sony A9 comes close thanks to its stacked sensor

[@SusanSlattery]

Thank you. I took some photos of a two year old at Christmas and had to delete them. Looked like I photographed her through horizontal blinds. The Christmas tree lights were blinking, a woodstove in the room was flickering, THE TV WAS ON, and there was a low overhead ceiling fan/light that was going so fast my hair was moving. I was horrified, thought my sensor was bad. Sony A7R4, silent shutter, Anti Flicker OFF. Stupid. If I'd looked at the back of the camera, I would have stopped and dug into the menus. Or at least asked my sister in law to turn off the tv. I never shoot much above a shutter speed of 250, but the photos all had slim hard black horizontal lines tight as blinds. No saving them. Also I was photographing faster than the A7R4 is rated for. Live and learn.

[@PrimateBMX]

oh god, thank you so much, i thought my sony was broken

[@dtorree]

Sameeee

[@igibbs2000utube]

Great explanation! Thanks much! I'm thinking about the soon-to-be-released Nikon Z9. It's apparently got a sensor that has a readout speed similar to the Sony A9/A1. But it doesn't have a mechanical shutter at all - no option to fall back to "noisy" shutter. You mention that the fast sensors will eliminate the banding/rolling shutter effect in all but the most extreme circumstances. What would those extreme circumstances be? Do you mean a scenario in which the artificial lights flicker at a rate faster than 60 Hz? (I'm a concert photographer that has been plagued by banding when using the silent mode on my Nikon Z6ii. Not really been too much of an issue because I just switch to mechanical shutter and things turn out OK. I'm now looking at upgrading to the Z9 because I want the improved auto focus system, but if I'm going to get banding in my shots - with no way to prevent it - then this is clearly not going to work for me.)

[@DaveMcKeegan]

The extreme circumstances would be both artificial light to avoid flickering but also if anything is moving across the frame during the shot it will help stop it becoming distorted

[@igibbs2000utube]

@@DaveMcKeegan thanks! During concerts, the performers do move, of course, but not at super fast rates. The more I read/watch, the more I think the Z9 should do great for concert work - the sensor readout rate is much faster than LED flickering so shouldn't have the banding issue, and the readout rate would seem to be fast enough that the performers' motion should still be frozen. At least I hope so. :)

[@DaveMcKeegan]

@@igibbs2000utube I imagine the Z9 will be great I've seen lots of people praising the A9 for such work and I believe that has a slower readout than the Z9

[@igibbs2000utube]

@@DaveMcKeegan thank you sir! Looks like I'll be pre-oredering the Z9 and getting in line with a gazillion others. :)

[@3-piece129]

One of the biggest selling points of the a9 is the 20fps in electronic mode for sports shooting. However, the possibility of banding exists with high shutter speeds with electronic shutter, doesn't this defeat the purpose of the a9? Doesn't Sony tout the silent shooting for weddings? Granted, you shouldn't be shooting at 20fps, but if we're being advised to shoot mechanical, then what is the purpose of the silent shooting mode if it's too slow for sports and not silent for weddings? Am I misunderstanding? If so, please set me straight. I'm mainly interested in indoor sports photography in dimly lit school gyms and stadiums. I'm starting to see the limitations of my canon 80d in regards to noise even with my 2.8 lenses. I'm wanting to go FF and was thinking of switching to the a9 but all this banding issue is giving me 2nd thoughts.

[@DaveMcKeegan]

The banding issue comes from the delay from reading the start and end of the exposure - the A9 has a stacked sensor so it's able to read the sensor a lot faster than other mirrorless on the market, so it doesn't suffer with banding anywhere near as much as other cameras

[@3-piece129]

Thank you! Great video.

[@khaleidoscope3839]

crystal clear. thanks mate

[@jomendez6929]

never has anyone explain this before ...and i got most of it ,, wow ,, thank you ,, king of England .. i follow you to battle ,, not swords but learnings

[@ShercoCouple]

Love your videos!!

[@jaimedelgado7529]

When I try to photograph my plants in my grow room I used to get rolling bands. Then I set shutter speed to 1/250s and the rolling stopped. The bands still appear but at least they don't move. On the MHz I have 4 options (50, 60, auto, off) I've tried them all but the bands are still there. I thought being in Europe it would be 60 but because it's a grow light maybe it flickers at different speed 🤷‍♂️ I'd love to get rid of the bands

[@adilmhaisker6477]

Special effects helped a lot... ☼ 👍

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Glad you found it useful :)

[@swisselle]

I actually experienced color banding even using the mechanical shutter at a play, because the stage was light with LED and video projection on the backgorund. And since they were moving (and dancing) I needed to set the shutter speed to 1/650s and higher with open lens. I ended up with horizontal rainbows all over the picture. I learned that it gets worse, when you go higher than 1/250s with open lens 8-/. I wish Canon would be able to do the same as Nikon (Z9), where you can finetune the exposure to match the frequency/flickering of the LED better than in 1/3 Steps Canon allows. Bottom line: I won't use 1st curtain electronic or silent shutter on my R5, because I shoot a lot of concerts. And if I do a wedding, I won't use silent shutter at any circumstances. Imagine a destorted bouquet-toss and the questions of attendees "I thought she's a professional"!! Looks like the newer cameras are for still photography only in these modes, but I doubt that there's a silent shutter essential :-)

[@khunakornphaibinsin3594]

Please help me about this

[@inwirikac.lambert1597]

great man!

[@samuelecherubini9333]

great content!

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Thank you 😊

[@himsxoxo]

thanks bro

[@leosypher9993]

Things like rolling shutter and screen taring are some of the most annoying parts of modern technology to me, the fact that greater attempts to make an entire image render all at once per frame (yes I know, you would need a small super computer to play a simple video, but I do have ideas to make it processible), or to make more global shutter cameras is something I see as a major short coming

[@darksquirel]

The flickering at 50/60 hz causes almost no banding because the sensor would have to be reading so slowly to see it, it all blends on slower shutter speeds because each photosite is reading for more than 1/50 or 1/60 of a second. what causes banding is the much higher cycle rate of LED lights and screens (like billboards) which flash hundreds to thousands of times per second. the 50/60 hz signal affects photos of tv's more though

[@DaveMcKeegan]

But you can fast shutter speeds on electronic such as 1/8000th. In that case the photoshites can't be exposing for 1/50 of a second otherwise the exposure wouldn't work. So at higher shutter speeds under any artificial light you will get flickering

[@darksquirel]

That is what I was getting at, banding tends to occur at higher shutter speeds because of how short a time each photosite is active for but it's generally not the grid frequency that causes it.

[@alphanimal]

Good explanation! Now I wonder how that stuff works on a deeper level. How does a sensor actually read the charge of each photo site and discharge it? Could it be done independently? Why is it so hard to do a global shutter on CMOS? Why is it not on a CCD?

[@profoundmood]

The best explanation ever! Thanks!

[@hazelvee2527]

Thanks for your always great explanations. :-)

I think led lights have labels saying how much they flicker.

[@renuchinu7619]

Thanks brother.i thought my new a7iii need to go in service centre

[@adnan5161]

thx

[@bilalattique7974]

So banding does not exist in mechanical shutter right? Only in electronic shutter.

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Yes, because regardless of shutter speed the mechanical shutter will close extremely fast so the sensor remains evenelly exposured

[@GhostwriterNiche]

Great explanation!!

[@erikavardhini6245]

Nice video & Thank youu!! However, I'm curious about the flickering effect. Is it possible that using High Continuous Shooting will worsen the flicker effect?

[@DaveMcKeegan]

The shutter speed will affect how apparent the lines appear, changing the fps will just change where the lines appear on the screen

[@erikavardhini6245]

@@DaveMcKeegan Noted. Thank you! And good luck for your work :)

[@tim3854]

Shows how bad for us those new lights are, incandescents don't flicker and are much better for our health. Good info btw, sorry I got sidetracked

[@RotterStudios]

ok, but how to get rid of it.

[@썬더-g1o]

good~!!!

[@Yagan-chuganshik]

You don't need to create captions in a foreign language if you speak so fast, because people can't read them. Translated by google translator.

[@Guoenyi]

Mechanical will have banding too. It is just gonna show at a higher shutter speed than electronic

[@harrisongould9460]

Sony claims they have the global shutter solved. New camera came out today.

[@MrKoenPieter]

I wait for the global shutter

[@laurenternstlouissaint7566]

So now, you tell me to go back to vhs.

[@zakariaabed3593]

Need to change your face lighting

[@khunakornphaibinsin3594]

I don't understand English very well

[@DiscoverRajivVlogs]

So just shoot in daylight and stable things 🤣🤣😂😂hahah.

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Pretty much 😂

[@rodrigo4379]

nice video! well done

[@DaveMcKeegan]

Thank you 😊