What even IS "Vanilla DOOM"?! 🍦

[@DoomKid]

My attempt to solve the age-old riddle: What does "Vanilla" mean when it comes to DOOM? Hope you enjoy! Here's the vanilla Doom EXEs, which you can use to play in DosBox: doomshack.org/~doomkid/doom_vanilla_exes.zip (needs doom.wad and doom2.wad) Here's a HUGE pack of good vanilla WADs compiled by me! www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/114671/ Here's even more vanilla Doom resources: www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/117694/

[@ErdrickHero]

Why does DOOM95 not count as vanilla DOOM? Yes it's a port, but it's also an official DOOM executable from ID built from the same source code as the DOS version, included in an official DOOM release, without bells and whistles like jumping/free look/etc. The source may have had some modifications to run on Windows, but the source also had some modifications just between the initial release/shareware version of DOOM and 1.9 on DOS. Does it behave significantly differently in some form?

[@ChaseThePinballWizard]

@@ErdrickHero it does.

[@ErdrickHero]

@@ChaseThePinballWizard could you elaborate, please?

[@ChaseThePinballWizard]

@@ErdrickHero it's the same game but for 95, no real alterations.

[@ErdrickHero]

@@ChaseThePinballWizard Oh, I thought you were saying "It does" [behave significantly differently]

[@tickleson8661]

If you rage quit because a mancubus fireball was somehow able to go through the wall and kill you, you are playing vanilla Doom

[@Jackass_of_DOOM]

Or if the game freaks out because a hitscan tracer intercepted too many lines or things and collision detection breaks.

[@maximummatt73]

@@Jackass_of_DOOM the all-ghosts glitch. Awww yeeeeeeeah

[@mjc0961]

@@Jackass_of_DOOM Or if you're shooting an enemy with hitscan but the walls behind it are taking the bullets because you and the enemy are just barely on different blockmap tiles

[@StrobaCat]

These bugs happen in Chocolate Doom? since is practically is a 1:1 copy of vanilla doom but compatible with modern systems

[@nonenothingnull]

​@@StrobaCat og doom had the comments' bugs

[@lilwyvern4]

I'm glad you added that last little bit. It doesn't matter how you Doom, all that matters is that we're united in our hatred for demons and our love for ripping and/or tearing.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

I greatly enjoy both vanilla and modded. Doom being good at its core is part of why it's so moddable, you have a fundamentally good foundation to start from.

[@LabyrinthDoomer]

As someone whos played this game heavily for 21 years and prefers the no look, no jump settings, I 100% agree with Doomkid. Vanilla or not its Doom and it wouldn't have anywhere near the lifespan it has now if it didn't become so big in the modding scene. For me, it's the fast paced demon murder, not Doomguys neck issues lol

[@volo870]

I disagree. I kind of fancy Cacodemons. Those lovely tomatoes! 🍅😍💕

[@-sauron-3512]

Dooming is now a normal action, when your friend asks you what are you doing afternoon, you say „I’m going to doom for some hours” hahaha

[@nepdisc3722]

I'm glad you added that last little bit. While I'm quite fond of ripping, I find tearing to be abhorrent and do not partake. I am neutral on the concept of demons.

[@SMJSmoK]

I always find it almost unbelievable that the game that literally defined the genre has such an awesome framework for modability + the source code is public and published by the man himself. It's just so counter intuitive to me. I would expect a game this old to suck in this department and I wouldn't even be mad at the devs because they were treading a new ground here. Compare this with something like old Nintendo games that have to be emulated, reverse engineered, decompiled etc. just to do a fraction of what the Doom mod community is doing. Id was just "here are the development tools, have fun".

[@zakazany1945]

Nintendo sucks.

[@theraymunator]

John Carmack and all of Id Software is God's gift to gamers.

[@GeistInTheMachine]

God bless 'em.

[@defaultdan9715]

@@zakazany1945 I love the ever loving fuck out of the games for the SNES and NES, (all the good ones anyway) but yeah the company is shit.

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

It’s because you had some of the best guys for the job. There’s a level of competency that you probably wouldn’t be able to find in a lot of modern releases.

[@jess648]

I love Crispy Doom because it’s a balance of the amazingly authentic feel of Chocolate Doom with limit removing capabilities, additional gameplay and visual options and a doubled resolution of the original with 640x400 which still maintains a chunky look while being cleaner. its demo, netplay, config file and savegame compatible with the original though its *technically* not vanilla but it’s my ideal way to play Doom with its extra features but at the same time meets a lot of the requirements laid out in the video by default

[@ikagura]

Agreed, with PrBoom+ it's my go to sourceport to play Doom with the old wads.

[@jess648]

@@ikagura prboom+ is really good too!

[@sebastiankulche]

I was using now International Doom since it supports an even higher resolution, while still being accurate like Crispy.

[@jess648]

@@sebastiankulche I’ve been meaning to try out IntDoom

[@muusi5708]

The end part about all Doom being Doom made me go "awwww". Great video as always!

[@DoomKid]

Thanks Muusi!

[@NiGHTS108_]

6:39 So excited for Strawberry Doom, Rocky Road Doom, Mint Chocolate Doom, Caramel Doom, Cherry Doom, Pistachio Doom, Bubblegum Doom…

[@MondySpartan]

Jalapeno Pepper Doom

[@NiGHTS108_]

We call that “Hell Revealed”

[@gasabur2934]

Apple Doom, Blueberry Doom, Cheese Doom

[@DoomKid]

@@gasabur2934 GZDoom = CheesyDoom

[@wakuwalt7]

Actually exist a Strawberry Doom port

[@PeterLawrenceYT]

For me, anything demo compatible = Vanilla Doom. Demo compatible AND non-limit removing = True Vanilla.

[@DoomKid]

I agree with this assessment, Peter.

[@kaapeli4790]

Glad you've clarified this term more! As a deathmatch modder in Zandronum I often talk about the term "Vanilla deathmatch" to refer to Vanilla gameplay played in deathmatch maps that have weapon and item placements from Doom or Doom 2 - no matter the sourceport or the format of the map. However, people keep mixing it with various Vanilla things, thinking that I'm either talking about deathmatch being played in Vanilla Doom (DOS or Chocolate Doom) or about Complevel 2 compatible deathmatch maps, so quite often I'll have to explain what I really mean. It is a much broader term when you think about it!

[@bonciutalentadv7599]

Hey, Vsauce, Michael here. What is Vanilla Doom? What even is Doom? What even is, is? But first, let's talk about how many holes does Tom Hall have.

[@SMJSmoK]

...or does he?

[@mmmcola6067]

oh yeah i love holes

[@jordantriggs7823]

And whether chocolate or vanilla, with enough ripping and tearing, we will find every time... that Tom Hall does, in fact, have ten holes. But what is a hall if not a hole... through a house? MY house... dot WAD, was a cultural phenomenon which might give us some idea of the number of Tom's halls, because it was actually a PK3 file. And as always, thank you for watching.

[@ManDudeMcHumanGuy]

Typically when I refer to Vanilla Doom, I'm referring to a non modern source port version of doom. Anything without all the fancy feature like full mouse look and what not. So I'd consider something like Doom 95 vanilla, since it is mostly just a windows port. The console dooms are mostly vanilla, minus the ones that drastically change the levels. Or I sometimes use it just to mean the standard levels with out any additional wads. I know not technically correct. To me Vanilla is just "normal" doom.

[@pagb666]

Well, projectiles are slower on console... so gameplay is different xD

[@ManDudeMcHumanGuy]

@@pagb666 true. But your mobility is so limited. So it balances out

[@zeroattentiongaming820]

The current console ports do get updated with new campaigns every now and then, at least one of which features new assets for weapons and enemies which were fan made. Though according to this video the Unity port isn't vanilla so the current console port is excluded from the conversation before the fan content even comes into play

[@DoomKid]

@@zeroattentiongaming820 The Unity port has the vanilla campaigns, and the demos are fully vanilla compatible, so even though it isn’t literally vanilla Doom, it’s largely the same thing (and I’m glad for that)

[@xX_Lol6_Xx]

For me, Vanilla is the DOS exe, whether it's the vanilla campaign, a custom campaign or a Dehacked campaign. Good video!

[@DoomKid]

Thanks Lol 6!

[@TheRexTera]

“Is it fun?” “Yes” “No future question your honour”

[@RadioactiveChannel06]

I loved how you bookended the video by saying no matter how we like to play Doom, we’re all still Doom fans and there’s no right or wrong way to play. I’m somewhat of a purist myself as I like to play Doom in a way that looks and behaves like vanilla but with higher res, fps and modern controls, that’s why ports like Crispy Doom, PrBoom+, Woof and Unity are perfect for me. But if someone prefers to play GZDoom with freelook enabled and Project Brutality installed they are no less of a fan than me and at the end of the day they are still playing Doom and are still having fun!

[@MondySpartan]

I beat Doom and Doom II in GZDoom all with mouse look enabled. Still, what matters is that I had fun, and I have finished the games.

[@McSpongeCartoons]

This vid is great, shows that vanilla isnt just black and white and how there are multiple layers to having a wad be vanilla or not.

[@RichardBejtlich]

My friends and I were the first cadets to play Doom on the then-brand-new “Falconnet” at the Air Force Academy in the spring of 1994. We used our government issued 386 PCs and installed our own 10Base2 thinnet NICs to play a 4 man deathmatch. 30 years later this week, I compiled Chocolate Doom from source on my laptop for fun. This video really helped me understand what’s changed since those days! 🙏

[@DoomKid]

Thats such an awesome little piece of history right there.. Thank you for sharing!

[@reddoomedearth4020]

Something that I think about often in terms of Vanilla gameplay is actually something you touched on in this video, and that is demo recording, specifically the idea of pistol starting and how central it's become to mapping and playing maps in general. As far as I know (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the idea of pistol starting in Vanilla Doom was essentially "Well you have a save X levels back, either reload THAT save, or start THIS level over from a pistol start." Where the maps were made to accommodate that choice rather than "play this way" which is how most mappers view things. "Intended to be beaten from pistol start" etc. It's always been a curiosity for me with how central that's become, and the way DOOM has changed vs how it's stayed the same over these years. Anyway, a surprisingly concise but in-depth vid!

[@darkprinc979]

Well, there is a bit of a breakdown to make here. There are some wads that are intended to be played from pistol start, but I think in most cases it is more that the mod is designed so that you *can* play pistol start if you want to. As an example, I've been playing a map pack called Shadows of the Nightmare Realm which forces you to pistol start each level because of the theme that the author was going for. On the other hand there are plenty of mods out there that will design their levels so that you can play continuously if you want, but the maps will be designed such that you can also pistol start every level and still progress in a reasonable fashion. Balancing your maps to support both pistol start and continuous play is going to be more difficult; You have to allow a player that is going pistol start to get up to speed relatively quickly while also preventing those that are playing continuously from becoming so overpowered that they just breeze through every encounter with little to no effort.

[@reddoomedearth4020]

@@darkprinc979 Oh absolutely, and there's also episodic style stuff like in Eviternity, Atmospheric Extinction, or Valiant (or just level resets at certain levels like Hellbound), but I was talking about fresh-off-the-disc installs. Back at the original selling date of the game, there weren't, as far as I know, any form of autosave, aside from pistol starting the start of the level after dying. That's what I was commenting on.

[@zokum]

There's one way for a mapper to handle this in a megawad. Make the map play well with continued play and add enough goodies, ammo and weaponry in secret areas in order to balance it for pistol starting. If you pistol start with a clear plan, it's beatable, but people coming from the previous map won't have way too much ammunition and weaponry for the map to be a challenge.

[@xX_Lol6_Xx]

6:32 little funny fact: Odamex can record vanilla compatible demos with a parameter. It's also accurate to said behavior because if you let the title screen go on for a while, the Iwad demos will play back

[@ShadesMan]

I once knew a person who ate so much chocolate he had a tummyache - but he tried eating just as much vanilla to negate the effects, and it did NOT work out! Seriously tho, this video is informative, clears up a lot of confusion, and was just plain interesting.

[@DoomKid]

Glad you think so ShadesMan!

[@micahlindley7515]

Like vanilla beans? They kinda taste like raisins.

[@DrMurdercock]

The only wrong way to Doom is HDoom. We can all agree on that.

[@yellowblanka6058]

There's also that one extremely offensive WAD that has the player killing minority stereotypes.

[@MXOY99]

​@yellowblanka6058 I mean it's still DOOM, but something that needs to be DOOMED.

[@calibri1182]

​@@yellowblanka6058The reason that wad was made is the real offense.

[@Bryan-T]

I like doom.

[@coolcrimson7014]

I also like doom

[@thefierycharmeleon164]

I like Cyberemond

[@Wavy667_]

I hate doom with all my guts >:(

[@erykzysk3330]

@@Wavy667_ I like doom

[@rkitchen69]

I like 🐢

[@CinderBlockCuisine]

Vanilla doesn't even sound like a word anymore

[@YusefIsAGod]

Great video, I wish I had seen one like this when I started playing Doom 6 years ago. I hate that gatekeeping stuff where some say you've only "played" if you used only keyboard. However it's important to play the game at least once on vanilla. More so, it's always important to play the maps as intended by the developer whether if it requires GZDoom or just PRBoom+, I go right ahead and play it. The greatest thing about Doom is that you're able to create your own experience. Sometimes when I'm bored I mess around, mixing different wads to see how it looks like. Mainly, I like high definition on the sprites and minor fixes without losing the core vanilla gameplay, so PRBoom+ is usually my source port of choice.

[@Raddaman8000]

Whether you like your Doom Vanilla, Chocolate, Crispy, cooked into a chicken Nugget, Strawberry, Russian, Woof, Boom, Brutal, Retro, Eternity, EDGE, Legacy, Odamex, ZDaemon, Zandronum, Unity, Pr+, GZ, DSDA, UEFI, BFA, 64, Final, 2016, Eternal, or otherwise It's all still DOOM in the end and that's what matters boiiiii (Personally I'm complvl 2, 200p resolution all the way, but also widescreen and spritefixes. Vanilla Gameplay, Vanilla Campaign, Vanilla Compatible... but not Vanilla Assets ...... *wait I added a fifth category and made it more confusing fuck*

[@Klaesick]

Remember the four Vs everyone. VD, VC, VG, VC. VD: Vanilla Doom (You are playing Vanilla Doom if your playing Doom or Doom 2 as it was released by id software in 1993) VC: Vanilla Campaign (You are playing the Vanilla Campaign the levels you are play were officially released by id software) VG: Vanilla Gameplay (You are using Vanilla Gameplay if the weapons, monsters, behave the same as the original release of Doom, or close enough to behaving the same) VC: Vanilla Compatible (You are using a Vanilla Compatible wad/deh if it can be played in Dos Box, or if a demo can be recorded and played back in Doom.exe/Doom2.exe)

[@DoomKid]

Spot on!

[@Dimon12321]

VG = Void Glide

[@BiodegradableYTP]

Thank you very much for making this video, my friend. To think, I've been in the Doom community for two years now and I still struggled to fully grasp what people really meant when they'd say, "Vanilla". Going out of your way to really break down the phraseology and how "Vanilla" is applied will not go unappreciated by the technically inept dopes like myself ;^)

[@DoomKid]

Well Bio, if it helps you out, that’s a big plus in my book. I think the main reason it ain’t straightforward is due to how long and overstuffed Doom modding history is!

[@MSpotatoes]

I didn't know gzdoom existed until 2024. I just played the steam version. I've had my fill of vanilla doom over the decades. There's so much cool modded content to try anyway.

[@tytanium654]

You gotta try Russian Overkill.

[@niemand7811]

Well done. Doom is actually not the only realm where the term vanilla has a defined meaning. And I do not speak about ice cream parlors.

[@reddy64]

-the version you're playing it in -what the guns and baddies can do -where they're doing it in -how the laws of physics work there

[@Terror.656]

Excellent video! All perfectly explained. Now if someone brings the topic i can just show them this video and it's over lol

[@TVdinnermasterchef]

If it IS Vanilla Doom, IS the Vanilla Campaign, does have Vanilla Gameplay and IS Vanilla Compatible, why is my brain about to implode? Good breakdown of terms; I now understand why decino mentions a custom WAD is Vanilla Compatible when there are clearly custom features/textures dotted around and it's not the original game. Thanks

[@smudgey5000]

My first experience playing Doom was Doom 64. Which I actually thought was Doom 1 for years until I played it on SNES. I was only 1 going on 2 years old when Doom launched and my parents were college kids that didn't have home computers. I never really ever had much of a chance to ever experience Doom because I was just a young kid and by the time I had a SNES the PS1 was already out. Most games I got at those young ages came from flea markets, video stores, etc. Pretty much all used. Never had a brand new game before until I got PS1 and N64 in 1998. First played Doom 64 around that time cause it was one of the 2 games my uncle bought for his N64 pretty much had it loaned to me for like 20 years so I technically had it but never actually owned it. First played proper Doom 1 and 2 on PS3 when Doom 3 BFG came out. I don't know if that counts as vanilla but it was the closest thing to vanilla I played at the time. I do own all the Dooms on steam now so I have played real vanilla Doom. I can get past the controls but I dont like how blurry and shitty it looks on modern monitors so I need a source port to enjoy it. I could probably enjoy it on an old CRT monitor though cause old DOS games were like made for that.

[@DoomKid]

Honestly, even as a vanilla fan, I primarily use ports with the higher resolution set to vanilla gameplay. Being able to see clearly is great!

[@smudgey5000]

@@DoomKid I don't mind pure vanilla DOS version but I'd have to be running that on an old computer or at least just an old CRT monitor. That way it's actually true vanilla and looks the way it intended. Can't exactly replicate that nostalgic retro look on these modern flatscreen 1080p - 8K monitors.

[@uh.theroyalwe]

I would add a fifth term: Vanilla Spirit - when the map doesn't fit any of the terms, but at the same time seeks to integrate the atmosphere of the original Doom with spices from some other port (like GZDoom, for example). And thanks for the video! It was very helpful and enlightening.

[@DoomKid]

It’s very true, a map can use plenty of extra features while still maintaining a vanilla spirit, especially if it still uses the stock textures and enemies. And you’re welcome!

[@Mutant_Mods]

This is very useful actually good job.

[@justafriendlyshambler6514]

Thanks to Doomkid, I now know that Chocolate Doom, the sourceport I'm using isn't exactly vanilla doom. Thank you Doomkid for this educational video :D

[@DoomKid]

You’re very welcome!

[@KittycatKye]

Sometime after my initial comment on this video, I tried playing Doom in Crispy Doom and it has since become my source port of choice! I love that it provides an experience closer to vanilla Doom, while also providing some great quality-of-life improvements. There's also Crispy Heretic and Crispy Hexen, and I love both of them as well.

[@DoomKid]

I completely sympathise with your views on not using freelook, and I usually don't as well these days, whenever I do play!

[@wolfboyft]

Thank you for starting the video with that MIDI lol

[@NigBickDoomguy12345]

I love the doom rendition of Pressure. Didn't sneak it past me.

[@DoomKid]

Good ear!

[@KittycatKye]

Great and informative video! Currently, my ideal way of playing through the vanilla Doom levels is this: GZDoom + Smooth Doom Freelook: On Autoaim: Off Jumping: Off Crouching: Off Fullscreen HUD: On Crosshair: On Certainly not vanilla as explained in the video, but it definitely enhances the experience for me. :3

[@nineonine9082]

What's strange is the fact I refuse to create anything that is not vanilla compatible. I mean sure that's cool if I could time travel and show off my sick wads in 1995, but in reality what do I achieve, I mean my gameplay isn't vanilla, maybe it is just the idea that it can be compared to actual Doom 2, Plutonia, TNT and such, instead of comparing it to something like Brutal Doom.

[@DoomKid]

I’m a vanilla mapper too, primarily. For me, I love trying to get back into the mindset they had to use in the era of weak hardware, where you take less and try to make more out of it. It’s a fun challenge, and knowing definitively what I can and can’t do from square 1 also makes the mapping process a bit faster.

[@ButcherGrindslam]

Most recent release is NOT "Unity port", it's just Unity wrapper. This version is one of the few compatible with demos.

[@DuckReconMajor]

my mind has never ventured deep enough into the void to imagine people pronouncing "deh" as a word and now it has been thrust upon me. i may never recover. DEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[@DoomKid]

LMFAO

[@KeshaFilm]

First MIDI song is "Capella - You got 2 let the music", isn't it?

[@DoomKid]

Good ear (the midi is called TZ_THEME but it’s a very close match)

[@sonicdoommario]

I tend to play the original IWADs on Chocolate Doom, gives it more of that classic feel and the IWADs look "plastic" on higher resolutions on other source ports, it never felt right. I tend to play WADs on other source ports, since they tend to have more detail in them than the IWAD levels and take better advantage of the higher resolution offered. Chocolate Doom's movement also just feels way more nimble than other source ports.

[@DoomKid]

I completely agree, sonicdoommario. Nice to see a fellow Doom and YT OG here btw!

[@e-102gammaboitheepicdoomer7]

All I can remember are the words: "It is (or is not ) vanilla doom, it is (or is not) the vanilla campaign, it is (or is not) vanilla gameplay, it is (or is not) a vanilla compatible session"

[@Tamamo-no-Bae]

So how close would the new Doom 1+2 port be in terms of vanilla? I am not sure if it is Vanilla compatible.

[@DoomKid]

I believe it has full demo support (and complevel 2 support), however it needs a LITTLE work as some demos desync. It's very, very close to vanilla when set at complevel 2 though! It just also has Boom support and a few other things as well.

[@TheMemeResourceCastle]

This was a great video. Thank you. :) And while I agree with your carefully thought out and well explained definitions, the one thing that you forgot to mention is that all of your definitions of what vanilla is and/or isn't is completely invalidated by one thing: If you ain't playing on a CRT monitor, then it ain't vanilla, no matter how many other checkboxes are ticked. (Joking, for the record. In my actual weird headcannon, the 'vanilla' campaigns could have the word vanilla removed from them, and just be called Doom1, or Ultimate Doom, or Doom 2 campaigns, because the word vanilla is already stretched pretty thin covering all the other bases. Not saying that I am correct, just saying that that is my own headcannon.) Cheers and thanks for such a detailed explanation. Long Live Vanilla DOom.

[@DoomKid]

And cheers to you for a great comment!

[@Nikku4211]

Nice video, but it does make it hard for me to care about the difference between MS-DOS vanilla Doom and Chocolate Doom due to vanilla compatibility being completely on point by 2021. Also, if there's an inaccuracy in DOSBox that affects the vanilla Doom EXEs, would that warrant its own category of 'vanilla'?

[@DoomKid]

That actually makes sense - if you’re playing Chocolate Doom, you really “might as well” be playing Vanilla Doom. It’s a totally identical experience! About the second point I’m not sure, but thankfully DosBox runs the game just as good as windows 95, 98 and “real Dos” ran it.

[@eev-iv]

The mission of Chocolate Doom is to be exactly the same but on modern operating systems, down to the save and configuration files, far as I'm concerned playing Chocolate is the same as playing on DOS, and some source ports actually run on DOS so DOS isn't synonymous with vanilla either.

[@thriller2910]

I get the feeling I'll probably be rewatching this at some point... Great video!

[@sgtwaffles3229]

Here's a challenge, whenever Doomkid says vanilla take a shot of a beverage of your choice. Jokes aside though this video is very informative, keep up the good work!

[@voidrunner4048]

Best Video great job man. Doom never gets old.

[@DoomKid]

Thanks!

[@nikithegamer5165]

I actually play doom with free look, just to look around the levels since I fucking love looking in awe at the geometry of doom maps, thanks for adding that last bit since I did sometimes feel a bit bad for not playing it vanilla

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

You think you'd ever do a video about Doom and the mouse movement sometime? I think it's an interesting topic. Though later ports, and utilities like NoVert, allow you to turn that feature off and have just clean mouse turning, I swear that there was a method for tricking the game into not registering 'vertical' mouse input, but I can't remember what it was or where I read about it.

[@DoomKid]

I think in both DOS and Windows, it’s possible to turn x axis mouse movement off (or at least down) pretty easily, maybe that was the original pre-Novert/port way of doing it? I’ll definitely research it more though and find out!

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@DoomKid One of the tricks you could do with old ball mice was to plain remove one of the rollers, but that won't work with lasers, obviously.

[@zokum]

The situation is a lot more complex. What does it mean that a port is vanilla compatible? I would sasy it means that it runs things exactly like doom2.exe does, with the possible exception of higher res and better music, more sound channels etc. The only port that really does this is as far as I have tested, Chocolate Doom. Many others fail on small details, or don't render things correctly etc. Other ports clearly deviate from Doom gameplay. For others vanilla support means it can play the official wad files correctly, and not much more. Pwads with tricks not see in the original games aren't within the scope of vanilla-compatible. Deep water effects is something several hardware accelerated ports struggle with. Your system of dividing things into various categories, but it should also extend to source ports and what they can run. If a wad runs fine in doom2.exe, but not in ZDaemon, is zdoom then vanilla-compatible? I've uncovered several minor gameplay bugs in ports over the years. Little things that look different or play different in ports.

[@DigitalPhreak765]

Doom's a classic series 😊😊

[@thedungeondelver]

All this talk of vanilla and chocolate makes me wanna dive in to my Christmas stocking! :D

[@Luccimatic]

infinitely tall monsters. no jump or crouch, 4:3 aspect. letterbox. no texture filter. then you're really really close.

[@PeccatumMihzamiz]

Excellent video! Now to go outside looking for some vanilla ice cream. Perhaps with some chocolate. I somehow need it right now...

[@DoomKid]

This video is really just a subliminal ice cream ad!

[@Lyne_Taperz]

For someone searching for the BGM music used : Starfluxx - Mempheria

[@yellowblanka6058]

I laughed way too hard at that thumbnail with the ice cream taster guy…..brilliantly done, hahaha. I gave you a view for that alone.

[@DoomKid]

LOL, well spotted!

[@uncooked_ham]

Great video, thanks. I think I've heard the words "Vanilla" and "Doom" too many times and now they don't make sense when I say them!

[@0Lamp13]

Huh, and here I thought Doom95 was Vanilla, but I guess based on the breakdown it's 3/4 yes (no, yes, yes, yes) which ain't bad. Still loved Doom95 with that iconic start-up splash screen with the cybie and baron teaming hits on a marine and those giant red 95 numbers, and the selection screen it gave, back when I wasn't able to find the secret exit to E4M9, I'd play through it via that haha.

[@DoomKid]

I wish Doom95's launcher interface was copied by some modern-day classic Doom ports. It's a great interface!

[@VentoliN13]

Absolutely destroyed my brain. Awesome and very informative vid man! 🧠

[@paulsaulpaul]

My preference is Crispy Doom, original aspect ratio (not widescreen). But I do take the framerate limit off. And I run it at my native desktop resolution. It does integer scaling, though. So it looks pixelated like the original (but "crispy"). It is a fork of Chocolate Doom, so it should be demo-compatible (not sure if the framerate limit breaks the demo compatibility). Notably, I use the original WADs. The Unity WADs are modified (the red crosses and the Wolfenstein levels). There are some other bug fixes in those too. If you have the Unity rerelease, it should come with the original WADs in the dosbox version that ships alongside the Unity version. On Steam, you get both dosbox and Unity versions in the same game. Doom 3 BFG edition comes with nerve.wad. Highly recommend that one. You can use with the original doom2 iwad for the proper medpack textures. Channel creator probably knows all this, but maybe this is useful to others in 2024.

[@AJXTHEWALL]

this made me smile

[@chrisvisser-fee2631]

I get it but if I try to get my friend to play chocolate doom and they're like "oh, vanilla doom" and I go "teeechnically" they have the right to sack tap me. Call it the colloquial "vanilla doom".

[@1234_Flux]

Vanilla Doom? Chocolate Doom? Where's the strawberry Doom?

[@ikagura]

Original Doom's Iwads and Boom iwads with crouching/jumping is heresy. Jokes aside even free look and OpenGL can break some intended effects.

[@LoneWanderer4k]

infinite monsters height makes me angry

[@RealBadGaming52]

Whats that ? Not jumping over them

[@burneraccount1218]

Vanilla Doom is a type of spicy Doom derived from orchids of the genus ninteennintythreeus

[@zatozatoichi7920]

No love for Crispy, buhuhu. :' (

[@gorilladev]

I've played vanilla doom on my 486 :D as a weeee kid!

[@Szymanskill]

For me I've always seen vanilla compatible as a wad that will render and play correctly in the original exe, working savegames and demos are a bonus.

[@ikagura]

Technically speaking Vanilla Doom is playing the original 1993 1.0 release (that's the literal definition of vanilla) but I doubt anybody would be calling Ultimate Doom on DOS not vanilla.

[@christopherthibeault7502]

Like Linux Distros except for a game engine. I imagine my mod's levels use Vanilla map functions only--no conveyor belts or dimensions beyond visual plane overflow--while my characters use three or four unique weapons, still able to make a CompLevel2 demo. It would use Ultimate Doom, with each character sporting a scenario, ergo 4 distinct mods, one guy and 9 levels per mod, somewhat like Gauntlet. It will feature extreme 500+ HP and ammo like Yukkuri Doom Hack or Sirens.wad, with a cast of bad guys that occupy placement slots for otherwise redundant or minuscule power-ups like Potions or Helmets. Putting an explosion actor code pointer on a traveling projectile is just so Sky May Be, but I'll take that over another bunch of Boom maps any day. Later, we see a merger mod available for ZDoom 2.8.1 with 32 interconnected levels inspired by Yukkuri Doom Hack and the above character selection (Hexen), one new weapon per character, and an inventory system with a very hard quantity limit (Heretic). It would use ACS and DECORATE compatible throughout the Zed line of ports, like the SNES version after the Genesis one (also mopped of gore since gib deaths do gameplay-related things now). It might not allow demos, but they would abstain from Zan & GZ's graphical endowments. And all of that would still be Doom! Even it it features DC Comics' Azrael, Dick Gumshoe from Phoenix Wright, the Black Mage from 8-Bit Theater, and James the Angry Video Game Nerd....

[@carrotmaster8521]

great explanation, great message, great vid

[@s2korpionic]

This is needed.

[@2-Way_Intersection]

missed opportunity not giving some of these options their own flavors. im calling gzdoom vanilla everything chocolate chip

[@majamystic256]

Caramel Fudge = DSDA Doom / Woof running Doom Caramel = Boom running Doom Crispy Chocolate = Crispy Doom running Doom Chocolate = Chocolate Doom running Doom Vanilla = DOSBox running Doom Super Vanilla = Virtual Machine of DOS OS running Doom Mega Vanilla = A 1990s PC with DOS OS running Doom Literal Snow = Using Time Travel to go back to 1993/1994 and play Doom on 1990s PC with a DOS OS

[@DoomKid]

LOL

[@joeilya]

Water = Being an ID employee and working on Doom and playtesting with the early vanilla executables.

[@fragglet]

OMG please stop

[@SandMartin]

If I played in doom/doom2 under msdos/dosbox but with novert programm loaded, is this vanilla gameplay?

[@DoomKid]

Yep!

[@GarrettTBuse]

Personally for me I like playing LZdoom with some nice eye candy mods and freelook enabled (i like to look around and aim manually) and that's close enough to vanilla for me. The gameplay and balance is mostly intact and you can play through maps as they were designed to be

[@romulojoliveira20]

In my opinion, "vanilla" is strictly relationed with GAMEPLAY aspects, not graphics. Want original graphics? Go play on a CRT monitor, preferably on a ms-dos operating system.

[@clarenceboddicker6679]

Vanilla Doom is a Doom which has been obtained from vanilla pods

[@jeffyanderpson3397]

Shout-out to Doomkid for making some of THEE best Doom content

[@DoomKid]

Thank you!

[@TVdinnermasterchef]

Ah, but is it Vanilla Content?

[@matthewpepperl]

i started playing doom about 5 to 6 years ago even going so far as to build as dos machine for playing it completely vanilla as you can get

[@DoomKid]

That's awesome!

[@sebastiankulche]

The real question is why is called "vanilla" in the first place, lol.

[@DoomKid]

I think this term was made up for other games originally, the idea is that vanilla is the “plain” version of the game - no “sprinkles or extra flavours”, so to speak.

[@sebastiankulche]

@@DoomKid Thanks for the answers man. Your videos are so interesting like always ;)

[@novelezra]

Wait... But what about icecream? If you make icecream but don't add vanilla to it; is it vanilla icecream?

[@palehorse864]

I forgot, did Original floppy disk DOS doom have proper strafing keys and mouse turning? I remember I played it mostly with the arrow keys and very little strafing back then. It wasn't until Quake that I really started using the mouse, and then only after getting whooped in multiplayer by some circle strafing guy who was nice enough to stop and teach me circle strafe through the text chat. Thanks bud.

[@DoomKid]

It did have strafe keys and mouse turning even on the floppy versions!

[@palehorse864]

@@DoomKid NICE! I never knew that, and I played it from the shareware floppies. Cool beans!

[@whitebr1350]

Honestly, the only non-vanilla features I can't live without are freelook and non-infinite height monsters. I'd love to see more maps that utilize jumping, though.

[@meanmole3212]

Vanilla doom with uncapped framerate is the best experience for singleplayer and deathmatch. Fight me.

[@kevgmei]

Everything related to Doom is the best! Except for HDoom, The Sky May Be and the movies

[@DoomKid]

Haha, well stated! (Though admittedly I have a soft spot for Sky May Be.. not the others though!)

[@SynthwavelLover]

I feel playing Doom with vanilla gameplay, along with infinite height, (at least for the vanilla maps and WADs intended for vanilla gameplay) is important for a more... "genuine" experience. Vertical aim makes many areas much easier, having infinite height off makes certain areas easier, jumping is straight broken on some levels. I don't think it's elitist to push for this. There's many analogies you could make: Terminator Blu-ray has worse audio for instance so the gunshots sound terrible. You could argue this makes it not as genuine of an experience; you're missing out on something. If you play Megaman but it's modified so enemies are fewer and move slower, Megaman can now shoot in 6 directions... you get where I'm going with this. At the end of the day- play Doom how you want to play it. But if you add or remove things it does change the experience similar to changing a recipe. If you enjoy the taste of the modified recipe sure but me personally I feel a lot happier experiencing it "close enough" to the original. Sure I get it'd be a pain to play STRICT Vanilla but to add abilities you didn't have disrupts the intended design of the levels. I think it's worth trying to emulate the vanilla experience at least once (or just get map packs that account for non-vanilla gameplay).

[@DoomKid]

I agree with this!

[@Clown_Shingles]

I prefer Marshmellow doom. It has built in bots for coop/deathmatch, sandbox, and a doom dj!

[@itnaklipse1669]

Fact is when people want to play vanilla Doom most likely they mean the gameplay/aesthetics being unmodified (apart possibly from custom textures). Technical definitions are one thing and have their use, but people's preferences don't abide by them and that's why when not talking in technical context, such as about source ports, they're not relevant, and are even arbitrary, because in the end it's about playing the OG without enhancements/improvements/modifications invented by other people according to their own preferences, which may or may not coincide with those of the player.

[@blehmeh9889]

6:40 With this broad brush for various Doom mods and the like, I have to ask the controversial and highly tantalizing question: Is a mod like Hideous Destructor still Doom? Good luck deciphering this one lol

[@R0ck4x3]

Yes, modded Doom is still Doom, even something that changes the gameplay to such a significant degree as Hideous Destructor

[@MondySpartan]

@@R0ck4x3 What about Total Conversions that completely changes stuff so much it barely or doesn’t even look like Doom? Selaco and Total Chaos are examples.

[@R0ck4x3]

@@MondySpartan Unless it's one that's standalone, like Chex Quest or Hacx, it's still Doom imo

[@MondySpartan]

@@R0ck4x3 Some if not most major TCs such as the ones I mentioned are both standalone from the DOOM2.wad file, with Selaco even going to be sold as a commercial title, while Chex Quest is basically a direct modification over the Doom IWAD. HacX’s initial release was a commercial title, but still required Doom II.

[@R0ck4x3]

@@MondySpartan The initial release of Hacx did, yes, but 1.2 and the 2.0 dev release don't need Doom 2 at all, they're completely standalone IWADs. Is a full-fledged game that's maybe based on Doom, really still Doom if it doesn't need Doom to be played?

[@StinkySkunk100]

Woah you made rowdy Rudy? That wad is awesome! Surprised I didn’t know

[@DoomKid]

Glad you like it!

[@wadmodderschalton5763]

You should do a video on the difference in mapping limitations in regards to map size between Vanilla Doom & Limit-removing PWADs in the future.

[@DoomKid]

I like that idea, I'll put it on my list!

[@Hayden49]

What if there's a vanilla megawad but the secret maps have custom enemies because it's the secret map, like doom 2 had nazis

[@DoomKid]

In that case, you’d have a vanilla compatible wad with vanilla gameplay, other than the secret maps

[@219SilverChoc]

The last bit at the end is great, unless you are speed-running Doom, 100% accuracy to the original doesn't really matter. Someone not enabling the compatibility changes to match the original Doom or enabling interpolation or mouse-look to make it more comfortable to play, it's closer to the original experience than some ports/remasters of games.

[@Lux_1138]

So, the MS DOS emulator version of Doom II I got running on the computers at my school is, in fact, Vanilla Doom?

[@DoomKid]

Yep!